View Full Version : Decca C4E cartridge
in light of my recent 'on a whim' purchase can anyone give me some details on this cartridge please?
what tracking weight should i start with and pin layout?
walpurgis
22-08-2017, 18:49
If you look at what I posted yesterday you may find it useful.
Post 7791:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?33544-Bargains-on-ebay-(Part-2)&p=891176#post891176
Tracking force is generally 2 grams give or take a bit.
thanks,dont you mean posted today?
walpurgis
22-08-2017, 18:57
thanks,dont you mean posted today?
So it was. :)
thats the first sign you know lol
topoxforddoc
22-08-2017, 19:04
My John Wright (line contact) rebuilt C4E tracks nicely at 1.8g in my vintage Hadcock 228.
walpurgis
22-08-2017, 19:10
thats the first sign you know lol
Of what? I've forgotten what we were talking about. :scratch:
:D
I was going to suggest 10g tracking in a girder type of arm..... - sorry, I'm in one of them moods tonite...
ANY old Decca should have a service first before letting it anywhere near a precious vinyl collection. I have here a scan of a HiFi Sound review of this model (thanks to hifi dave's mag stash) and they suggest 1.5g* should be optimal despite Decca's recommendation of 3.5g downforce (vertical compliance is around '4' so this difference would barely make a change to the odd shaped 'cantilever.'), Sound was judged smooth but with marginal tracking at end of side if you weren't careful and a tonearm with a little damping was also recommended. Again, the 'direct coupled' nature of Decca sonics was praised. The response of the review sample showed nothing of the 18k resonances shown in many later models...
* [edit] - Please don't shoot the messenger - this was from a 1968 review and Decca were asked to confirm their tracking force suggestion. The reply was that the higher weight was used when setting up for best separation figures. I am aware that top Deccas had revised suggestion for tracking force of around 1.5 - 1.75g as shown above and I seem to think the cantilever and suspension was altered to take this into account, but I can't remember where I read this, so pinch of salt time until I can verify it... P.S. Many years ago when I was starting out, I had an original Decca Blue London which tracked superbly at 1.75g or so. T'was a bit too much for me at the time, but I've often wondered what it would have been like in a better matched arm and with a properphono stage with high overload margins able to take the hf dynamics...
walpurgis
22-08-2017, 22:02
https://s28.postimg.org/id1f8viz1/mxcp5805338734_fb25e4a3d2_b.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/4w4gq08nd/)
that will do nicely!
1 slight concern is the last sentence,not to be used with ferrous tt's, guess what the plinth is made of on the rock2 :uhho:
montesquieu
23-08-2017, 06:53
that will do nicely!
1 slight concern is the last sentence,not to be used with ferrous tt's, guess what the plinth is made of on the rock2 :uhho:
Should be plaster? That's where the name comes from (the Plaster of Paris platter and filling inside the framework, that gives it its weight.
walpurgis
23-08-2017, 08:23
The sensitivity to hum varies with older Deccas. I found it not too bad. The Rock has a thin 'skin' of steel filled with a hard plaster like material If I'm correct (similar to the Opus 3 Continuo), so the amount of steel may not be anough to cause problems.
Yes it's only the plinth that has the metal skin, the platter will be fine
it should be here tomorrow,any tips on alignment,with it having no cantilever as such do you just align the diamond?
Wakefield Turntables
24-08-2017, 18:34
DECCA carts are something magical, I remember getting my Maroon back from John Wright and being completely bowled over. I now have a DECCA II and a 78 and they all have something to offer.
walpurgis
24-08-2017, 18:35
The top of the body is flat and should be parallel to the record when the stylus is lowered. Some experimentation with arm height may still be useful though.
Alignment can be challenging as the diamond can be very difficult to see on an alignment template. On the Rock this is compounded by the paddle arrangement. It may just fall into place, or like my retipped Blue on my Rock, take the best part of an hour to achieve success.
Good luck!
oooh its here! :D
first impressions are its big and heavy, luckily ive got another counterweight because the standard alphason hasn't got enough weight.
i had to go to get some more cartridge mounting bolts too.25mm just does it.
strangely reminiscent in shape of the 2m black
https://s26.postimg.org/ean57akeh/IMG_1628.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/3mje8gafd/IMG_1630.jpg
ok so let the set up fun begin!
Loving your work Sir James
walpurgis
25-08-2017, 14:02
:popcorn:
hmmm im not really feeling this cartridge chaps,it certainly doesn't sound like any of the write up ive read,perhaps it needs a re-tip,it all seems to be there,it just lacks the clarity of the 2m black.
im a little disappointed seeing as i paid nearly £500.
geoff if you read this it reminds me of that ADC you sold me.
Bigman80
25-08-2017, 16:12
Oh dear.
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
walpurgis
25-08-2017, 16:13
That doesn't sound right. The clarity should be superb, with a bold, fast and very dynamic presentation. And it shouldn't sound like an ADC.
what bugs me is there's no way to see the stylus properly,i can see it fine sideways to follow the arm protractor but front on for line up in the grid its very hard,i have to use the cartridge body,which being square is ok but you never know what the tips like .
im very happy with the low end and mid,that's very sweet. tracking at 1.6
walpurgis
25-08-2017, 16:29
Try 2 grams.
well ive been listening to it for several hours now and there are things i like,it just seems to loose out on top end clarity, the fact that im not sure tells me its a sort of sideways step,i have to remind myself though thats it's an elliptical stylus against a shabita tip,that gives it credit to its performance.
one can wonder what more a re-tip would bring?
ultimately i dont know what these things are worth and how rare they are so i cant factor the cost of a re-tip,id say looking at the one present its getting to the point of being past its best.
its stands me in at £475 and re-tip id guess is £300 so we are talking £800. perhaps too much money?
i need some decca guys to advise please.
walpurgis
25-08-2017, 19:44
Have you experimented with VTA Jamie. It can be critical with Deccas. They were all hand made and no two are quite the same, so the VTA needs will vary.
You should certainly not be short of top end detail and it should be clean.
yes i have geoff,it did improve some some what,i just dont see a £500 difference to be fair.
walpurgis
25-08-2017, 19:59
Seems to me there is possibly something not quite right there. It should sound quite spectacular. I'd suggest having a word with Steve at HiFi Hangar. He may help. You could tell him we here would be interested in his response. There are quite a few members who have been his customers.
I am wondering if it is just the "synergy" thing. The damping trough on the Rock should help with cartridge compatibility but other things can come into play which subtly influence matters and may move the sound closer to or further away from our individual preferred sound. Myself I don't like to come to a conclusion until at least 4 sessions and like to have an alternative available for A/B comparison if I have doubts.
Sounds like a possible overhaul ( inspection ) from Mr Wright, he did the same for my maroon and put in a line contact jobbie ( superb )
for £ 256 . Thats if your finances, ooch can stand it of course. good luck. Your right about seeing the thing though, difficult at times ?
Hmm well It would stand me in at £750. The question is.... Is it a £750 cartridge??
On the other hand your not going to be happy with it as a £500 cart it seems ?. I would keep trying with VTA, arm height and
other stuff members have said and just maybe the sweet spot will appear ? !. Had to do that a few times myself. Good luck
topoxforddoc
26-08-2017, 11:53
Hmm well It would stand me in at £750. The question is.... Is it a £750 cartridge??
A well sorted C4E is absolutely worth £750. Mine was rebuilt by John Wright with a LC tip, as soon as I bought it. It took me 3 years to find one. Mine sits on an AO rewired 1970s Hadcock 228 alongside a Schroder Model 2/Allaerts MC1B (a highly rated hand built £3000 MC cartridge) on my Platine Verdier. The Allaerts is fed into the MC phono stage of my TRON preamp and the Decca into a TRON Seven Reference built for the Decca.
In my system I can have both the cartridges playing at once and I can switch instantly from one to other for a proper A/B. The Decca wins almost all of the time - much better on rock, jazz, electronic. Allaerts is probably better on orchestral.
Well that proves something I think, £3000 v £750 and the latter wins most times. Sounds lovely that Charlie !
well you made my mind up charlie thanks :)
some further thoughts,do you think my arm is ok to use with it?an alphason hr100 with fluid damping on the tt.
what would be the symptoms if it was a poor match?
walpurgis
26-08-2017, 18:44
I would have thought the HR100 plus fluid damping a near perfect match. Have you varied the damping at all?
not gone that deep with set up yet geoff,today i had a fresh listen and after some advice i connected both earth tags to the decca's 1,
my first impressions were of great slam and drive to the music,the vta needs a few more tweaks though.
ive been making more speaker stands today so will have all day tomorrow to have a play.
i think i'll stick with it long term and see about sending it off for a check or re-tip.
montesquieu
26-08-2017, 20:52
Well ... dissenting voice here. I held off on this one precisely due to fears over arm compatibility. I've tried Decca Golds - newish ones - twice now and never 'got' it. The first time was a PU7 12in - this has no damping but is as good a gimballed arm as you'll find. I heard only a ragged treble always on the verge of becoming really unsettling.
Second time was a Jelco 750d which does have damping. But even filled up with fluid my impression was hardly better. It seems to me that most people who like these have unipovots. I didn't go for it mainly because all the arms I have right now are high quality gimballed arms - having tried a number of unipivots this is where I've ended up.
Frankly I can't get my head around how any cartridge is supposed to work well when it is very low compliance vertically but very high compliance horizontally requiring an arm to be two opposing things simultaneously. Having owned a Rock with an HR100S, and a Rock Reference with an Excalibur I, so with years of experience of the Townshend trough, I'm at a loss to see how the trough helps matters here I always thought it was mainly about damping out the kinetic energy of pops and clicks, not about fundamentally altering compliance characteristics.
I would suggest trying a unipivot - even something cheap like a Nima see if that helps.
Personally I'd love at least once in my life to hear what others rave about in these cartridges but it's really never happened. In my world of classical music at least your 2M would be my preference indeed I had been thinking of asking for first dibs!
interesting,keep the advice coming please,i value it :)
montesquieu
26-08-2017, 21:55
Well, just to add people do look for different things in vinyl reproduction. I look for accurate vocal and instrumental tone/timbre - capturing the quirks of an instrument's character; micro dynamics - the phrasing, the bowing, the rests; spatial cues to the acoustic, and the thing that joins it all up, the timing (which comes from the TT mainly) which is all about the 'snap' of music and hearing musicians actually play together rather than just notes emerging from speakers.
A lot of classical music is almost too dynamic, the range has to be compressed big time to fit on the record. A lot of rock is the opposite, with other genres sitting in between.
For me the SPU is the benchmark here - punchy, dynamic, fundamentally musical but also able to convey nuance (my beloved Miyajimas are modern takes on the SPU approach) though I do appreciate there are other ways to skin a cat, ways that need very different arms than the high mass gimballed ones I've arrived at.
I've never managed to get a Decca to come close to doing what a higher end SPU or Miyajima can do with classical. Though I fully accept that it might not be what others are aiming at.
More worryingly though I've never really got one to behave properly either - I don't think these are easy beasts to match at all. I really would like to hear it done right.
I've been tweaking my setup with regard to my Decca Gold today and all I can say is ... I love it, ok it's not perfect across the whole range but it just sounds right! In fact it's the best I've heard my analogue side, ok a good bit of that is due to my Firebottle Vivant stage just back from upgrade by Alan, can't thank him enough.
Can't wait to get up tomorrow morning and play some more LPs [emoji4]
walpurgis
26-08-2017, 23:17
What phono stage are you running the Decca into Jamie? And what cables are you using on the phono side?
What phono stage are you running the Decca into Jamie? And what cables are you using on the phono side?
im using the phono stage in a nakamichi ca-5 pre amp,through klotz mc500
its make or break today,im going to spend time on set up,
using the hifi test record i tried the low frequency vertical test track,it fails the 20 hz and 18hz,it sounds like a jack hammer,the others from 16 to 6 hz are fine,the low frequency lateral test next and ist a bit wobbly on 25-23hz and then fine right down to 7.
interestingly without fluid damping it jumps out the grooves on the 18hz low frequency vertical test track.
i know these are extremes by the way.
hifi_dave
27-08-2017, 09:17
Try some extra mass on the headshell.
ok,although dont forget i already have the added mass of the rock paddle
a few interesting points and thoughts here:
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=155595
cheers mike,
ive had a gut full now so the 2m blacks going back on :steam:
cheers mike,
ive had a gut full now so the 2m blacks going back on :steam:
Yeah no worries, might be an idea to return it if you can, like I say my Decca Gold seems to sound pretty good no matter what I do to it doesn't seem fussy at all, ok so its now sounding better than ever but even before that it was pretty good, now it is superb, I know that sounds strange/not right but I'm sure you know what I mean.
ok so the 2m blacks back on and basically if you could have the hf from the black and the low/mid from the decca you'd have one hell of a cartridge! i need to seriously think what to do next.
in the meantime here's a snap of the decca.
https://s26.postimg.org/ftph2f5jd/IMG_1636_1.jpg
walpurgis
27-08-2017, 14:20
Needs a service, it shouldn't have all that dirt on it. The tip looks slightly skewed too.
yes it is geoff, quite a bit too.
walpurgis
27-08-2017, 14:28
Three choices really. Sell it 'as is'. Send it back as faulty. Or get John Wright to sort it.
If it was me, even with the outlay already, I'd get it retipped and fettled. Just my opinion.
its been sent back today as i spoke to jw and it would cost another £300 to sort it out.it also started to drop the left channel.
i thought long and hard about which way to go with it and to be honest i got sick of the indecision so this morning i tried to call hifi hangar and got no answer after several calls.
so i made my mind up and off it went back to them.
thank you for all the advice by phone,post and pm it was much appreciated. :)
my 2m blacks sold too so the question remains,what do i go for now........???
montesquieu
29-08-2017, 19:05
The Alphason arm on a Rock is crying out for a medium-ish compliance moving coil. Dynavevtor 17d OT AT33-PTG mkii would be ideal. Or an Ortofon Cadenza or NOS Kontrapunkt.
If you want to stay MM then an audio note IQ2 or 3.
Ammonite Audio
29-08-2017, 19:18
its been sent back today as i spoke to jw and it would cost another £300 to sort it out.it also started to drop the left channel.
i thought long and hard about which way to go with it and to be honest i got sick of the indecision so this morning i tried to call hifi hangar and got no answer after several calls.
so i made my mind up and off it went back to them.
thank you for all the advice by phone,post and pm it was much appreciated. :)
my 2m blacks sold too so the question remains,what do i go for now........???
You got no answer because they are closed until tomorrow, according to their FB page
walpurgis
29-08-2017, 19:39
Understandable Jamie. But I reckon you'll be thinking 'what if' for a while mate.
If the left-hand channel was dropping out the cartridge is faulty. Also, looking at the photo, there is a lot of ferrous detritus sticking to the pole pieces, which is not good.
Deccas of that vintage are/were capricious and contrary beasts. I've have/had several of them (still have four, of various types) and owing to the appallingly poor quality control employed at the time, no two Deccas (even those having the same stylus profile) sound the same. A friend of mine who used to run a Decca Blue (he now uses an Ortofon Bronze (?)), used to lust after my Blue, because it sounded better. I used to have three Blues - they were all of different quality: good, bad and indifferent.
Yes - there will be a "what if" moment, but content yourself that you have tried one of the better Deccas out there and heard its good points as well as its less than good points, and decided for yourself.
Wakefield Turntables
30-08-2017, 07:38
If the left-hand channel was dropping out the cartridge is faulty. Also, looking at the photo, there is a lot of ferrous detritus sticking to the pole pieces, which is not good.
Deccas of that vintage are/were capricious and contrary beasts. I've have/had several of them (still have four, of various types) and owing to the appallingly poor quality control employed at the time, no two Deccas (even those having the same stylus profile) sound the same. A friend of mine who used to run a Decca Blue (he now uses an Ortofon Bronze (?)), used to lust after my Blue, because it sounded better. I used to have three Blues - they were all of different quality: good, bad and indifferent.
Yes - there will be a "what if" moment, but content yourself that you have tried one of the better Deccas out there and heard its good points as well as its less than good points, and decided for yourself.
Wise words.
ALL Decca cartridges are a nightmare!!!
It's so easy to dislodge a coil, or for some reason cause a breakage in coil wires. I don't know why. Even used in a tonearm designed for them (NAS Mentor deck and arm), it didn't stop terminal distortion in my Micro-scanner caused by the 'top-magnet' coming unstuck and a coil breaking free. Took ten years after failure for me to finally get it repaired and bloody hell, once it was working right again it was absolute heaven.
I think it fair to say that with ANY Decca ownership of ANY age, it should be borne in mind that failures almost certainly will occur. Part of the so-called 'heaven and hell' of Decca ownership.
The Alphason arm on a Rock is crying out for a medium-ish compliance moving coil. Dynavevtor 17d OT AT33-PTG mkii would be ideal. Or an Ortofon Cadenza or NOS Kontrapunkt.
If you want to stay MM then an audio note IQ2 or 3.
Or a Reson Reca. :)
The Alphason 100S is SUPERB with a Podded Decca Export with VDH retip. A customer had one once on a Gyrodec of all things and it's the first time I ever heard a Gyro hold pitch and 'time' properly with rock-solid imaging. Very impressive I thought!
Brilliant thing with the Hr100S is that it'll happily take almost anything you put in it within reason - and it'll never get in the way...
The Alphason 100S is SUPERB with a Podded Decca Export with VDH retip. A customer had one once on a Gyrodec of all things and it's the first time I ever heard a Gyro hold pitch and 'time' properly with rock-solid imaging. Very impressive I thought!
Brilliant thing with the Hr100S is that it'll happily take almost anything you put in it within reason - and it'll never get in the way...
One of the arms on eBay now.
nearly the 18th, Jw is back from holiday and this is being sent off lively for a retip!
cant bloody wait.
https://s26.postimg.org/vwjkv61mx/IMG_1667_1.jpg
Bigman80
13-09-2017, 19:02
Thought you'd sent this back?
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
long story... but yes i did, but due to the issues and it needing a retip i bought it back at a very nice discount.
Bigman80
13-09-2017, 21:30
long story... but yes i did, but due to the issues and it needing a retip i bought it back at a very nice discount.Haha, sweet. Nothing like a discount. Now, how do I get a discount on those speaker stands you're making? ;)
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
I can do them much cheaper if you only have 1 leg on each stand! :)
Bigman80
14-09-2017, 05:42
I can do them much cheaper if you only have 1 leg on each stand! :)[emoji23][emoji23]
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
finally got round to sending it off to be re-tiped...the anticipation begins!
https://s26.postimg.org/tc1o9x6a1/IMG_1688_1.jpg
the report back with current prices,
not bad for 50 yr old stylus that imo betters a 2m black or zyx r-100 :eek:
1. Decca C4E cartridge, serial no.11305.
Stylus 20% worn output and separation good.
Options:-
Clean and test..............................£40.00
Install extended contact stylus..£255.00
Install Paratrace stylus..............£300.00
Bigman80
02-10-2017, 16:29
the report back with current prices,
not bad for 50 yr old stylus that imo betters a 2m black or zyx r-100 :eek:
1. Decca C4E cartridge, serial no.11305.
Stylus 20% worn output and separation good.
Options:-
Clean and test..............................£40.00
Install extended contact stylus..£255.00
Install Paratrace stylus..............£300.00
What you gonna do? might as well go paratrace straight off the bat and sell everything else
what do you mean sell everything else? lol
my only concern with the paratrace is azimuth has to be spot on,as you know we cant do that with the alphason so it would have to be done with paper shims or the like.
having said that though i did do that with the 2m black and it wasn't too much of a ball ache.
i asked john wright to fit what he thinks best and that was the extended line contact tip.
Bigman80
02-10-2017, 16:41
Well, yes it's the only downside of the Alphason.
You're not gonna go wrong either way to be fair. I'll be watching for your review of the Decca.
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
montesquieu
02-10-2017, 17:31
what do you mean sell everything else? lol
my only concern with the paratrace is azimuth has to be spot on,as you know we cant do that with the alphason so it would have to be done with paper shims or the like.
having said that though i did do that with the 2m black and it wasn't too much of a ball ache.
i asked john wright to fit what he thinks best and that was the extended line contact tip.
Not a fan of the paratrace, this is the right decision IMO.
well its back from john wrights and looking mighty fine!
from this,
https://s26.postimg.org/ftph2f5jd/IMG_1636_1.jpg
to this :)
https://s26.postimg.org/84p4emux5/IMG_1744.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/pjdy0nhft/IMG_1747.jpg
i shall be fitting it after ive had a kip :)
Bigman80
07-10-2017, 12:21
I'm waiting for the review!!
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
well its back from john wrights and looking mighty fine!
from this,
https://s26.postimg.org/ftph2f5jd/IMG_1636_1.jpg
to this :)
https://s26.postimg.org/84p4emux5/IMG_1744.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/pjdy0nhft/IMG_1747.jpg
i shall be fitting it after ive had a kip :)
Nice one Jamie, JW is certainly the chap to do the job properly. He replaced some resin substance in my Decca Blue and recalibrated it and it sounds superb except tracking is not perfect. The line contact you have had fitted will track very well indeed and I imagine the level of detail retrieve will be stunning. Need to have the same stylus profile fitted to my Blue so will be keen to read your thoughts!:)
well setting it up properly today seemed very easy,almost too easy,i left the tonearm height where it was and that seems to be right for the retip. tracking force is on 2 grams ,im not getting to anal just yet until ive put some hrs on the tip.
whats it sound like? bloody marvelous,it already showed a clean pair of heels to my 2m black and also a borrowed zyx-r100 with just a elliptical stylus,the extended fine line stylus has done exactly what i hoped for.
that is to bring the treble up in line with the bass and mid range.
this is without doubt the best cartridge i have heard to date,life like sounds,cymbals sound incredibly real,no tizz ,just real metallic sounds. the bass drum sounds like its being stamped on using my trusty copy of 'the wall' album as a reference,the soundstage is big and powerful
acoustic instruments are a joy to listen to,plucked upright bass notes and finger slides are very good,i hate to use the 'in the room' phrase so i wont lol.
i have to keep reminding myself that this is a 50yr old cartridge,how the hell does it sound so good? whats it going to be like when its bedded in? i simply just want to keep playing records,it is making me do it!!
https://s26.postimg.org/tuyevafwp/IMG_1751.jpg
topoxforddoc
08-10-2017, 12:17
Yup, the FFSS Mk IV is a real gem. It took me 3 years to find mine. I have been a Decca devotee since the late 70s and still have my Garrott Bros Gold. This is what i wrote about the C4E with a JW fine line rebuild in 2011.
https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/38028-decca-c4e/
mate ive read that serveral times,whislt waiting for mine to return,id go along with everything you said :)
im just listening to some piano music now,stunning!
mate ive read that serveral times,whislt waiting for mine to return,id go along with everything you said :)
im just listening to some piano music now,stunning!
Glad you persevered with the Decca Jamie and have found the magic these cartridges can do. Quite a few folk on here have tried and failed and could not seen what the fuss was but when you have them fettled and set up just right there is nothing like them. As I have a 2M black I can agree with you that they show this cartridge a clean pair of heels and are more dynamic and give a much more vivid account of what's on the record. Vocals, bass and instruments are stunningly resolved.
Now I must get mine retired with the line contact stylus!
:cool:
walpurgis
08-10-2017, 12:43
So now you finally get 'the Decca thing' Jamie :). After an unfortunate false start. There is nothing else like them!
RobbieGong
08-10-2017, 15:34
Great news Jamie ! :thumbsup: :)
Glad you have at last found the Decca 'magic'.
Been using a Decca on and off for the last forty years. There's something Deccas do that no other cartridge can do. Whilst I use other cartridges, I now always have a Decca (I have five various Decca models) set up on one of my TTs as a 'reference'.
My only advice is to make sure you keep the stylus and your records clean, as there is very little clearance between the underside of the cartridge and the record surface.
Nice one, Jamie. It's always satisfying when a cartridges hits the spot like that, musically, so enjoy :cool:
So now you finally get 'the Decca thing' Jamie :). After an unfortunate false start. There is nothing else like them!
There are Deccas, and there are DECCAS, though... For me, as Charlie says, the FFSS Mk IV is a bit special, and has an all-round more accomplished level of performance than most others.
Marco.
Berni217
08-10-2017, 17:28
Nice story Jamie.
I love my SC4E. Bought it a few years ago after reading Charlie’s reviews. Thanks Charlie!
B.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
out of interest berni,what do you track yours at?
Berni217
08-10-2017, 18:42
out of interest berni,what do you track yours at?
Settled at 1.75 grs as recommended by the manual.
B.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
VTF IMO depends both on the Decca model and with the profile of stylus fitted. In my experience (so not necessarily definitive), with my Deccas used in an arm with light damping, I have found:
Decca Mk. III (elliptical stylus): 2.5g
Decca Mk. IV (SC4E): 1.75g
Decca Mk. V (Blue, spherical stylus): 3.0g
Decca Mk. VI (elliptical stylus): 1.5g
It sholuld be remembered that there was enormous sample-to-sample variation of Deccas (in quality and performance) up to the introduction of the Decca Jubilee, so your Decca may well be not the same as mine. Also cartridge loading can have an effect on the tracking ability of a Decca.
walpurgis
08-10-2017, 19:36
Also cartridge loading can have an effect on the tracking ability of a Decca.
That's interesting Barry. Not something I'd considered, but I can understand various input loads having electrical 'braking' or damping effects on the armature.
VTF IMO depends both on the Decca model and with the profile of stylus fitted. In my experience (so not necessarily definitive), with my Deccas used in an arm with light damping, I have found:
Decca Mk. III (elliptical stylus): 2.5g
Decca Mk. IV (SC4E): 1.75g
Decca Mk. V (Blue, spherical stylus): 3.0g
Decca Mk. VI (elliptical stylus): 1.5g
It sholuld be remembered that there was enormous sample-to-sample variation of Deccas (in quality and performance) up to the introduction of the Decca Jubilee, so your Decca may well be not the same as mine. Also cartridge loading can have an effect on the tracking ability of a Decca.
Interesting Barry, I tracked my Blue at 2g and I did have a little bit of mistracking, however this was the recommended VTF John Wright suggested? My Blue has an original conical stylus so maybe I should try a 3g VTF.
walpurgis
08-10-2017, 20:21
Interesting Barry, I tracked my Blue at 2g and I did have a little bit of mistracking, however this was the recommended VTF John Wright suggested? My Blue has an original conical stylus so maybe I should try a 3g VTF.
I've had several Decca London Blue's and they will mistrack if you are far short of the recommended 3 grams. I've found them a bit fussy about anti-skate settings too, worth experimenting with.
Yeah, when j.w changed my gold to a line stylus the cartridge tracked much better ( at about 2g) At first I thought it sounded slightly on the thin side but once
bedded in you could hear the extra detail and refinement. Well, around 500 hours later its still giving me much listening pleasure, though I better start saving for the next one !
Glad things have worked out well for you Jamie, as they say before serving up a meal these days ( annoyingly ) Enjoy
I gave Jw a call this morning, his said it’s been calibrated for 1.8 grams.
So pleased you had the balls to see it though and get a new stylus Jamie. Bet you're glad you didn't sell it now!
Glad things have worked out well for you Jamie, as they say before serving up a meal these days ( annoyingly ) Enjoy
So pleased you had the balls to see it though and get a new stylus Jamie. Bet you're glad you didn't sell it now!
cheers fellas,
im very happy with it. :cool:
So now you finally get 'the Decca thing' Jamie :). After an unfortunate false start. There is nothing else like them!
id have to agree,its a very good cartridge and another good recommendation from you that sparked my interest.
montesquieu
09-10-2017, 17:50
Nice one Jamie. Would love to be convinced sometime about one of these, hopefully I'll hear a sorted one in the right setup eventually!
Nice one Jamie. Would love to be convinced sometime about one of these, hopefully I'll hear a sorted one in the right setup eventually!
Nails on a blackboard :)
he's right you know :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ehUl8Cghw
ive done some alignment work on the decca,those that use one know what a pain they are as you cant see the stylus for off set aligning :(
armed with various magnifying glasses,jewelers loupe's and plenty of lights i got stuck in again aligning the cartridge body to the cross lines on my protractor,what i though was right turned out to be slightly off,a small twist and a listen brought a smile to my face once more,i was in that 'happy place' again.
i also ordered some silicone fluid to experiment with damping, i bought 20,000 cst and 30,000 cst,the standard fluid in used in the rocks trough is 12,500 cst.
i tried the 20,000 first and it sounded better for it,hard to say how but i noticed more string decal on upright bass notes.
next up was the 30,000 cst, this although not unpleasant seemed to kill the highs a bit,slightly less dynamic than the 20,000,i also had to knock the bias down a notch.
back to the 20,000 confirmed what i thought,so im sticking with this for a while before going back to the 12,500 to confirm its better.
https://s26.postimg.org/8hxcjbq4p/IMG_1764_1.jpg
ive done some alignment work on the decca,those that use one know what a pain they are as you cant see the stylus for off set aligning :(
armed with various magnifying glasses,jewelers loupe's and plenty of lights i got stuck in again aligning the cartridge body to the cross lines on my protractor,what i though was right turned out to be slightly off,a small twist and a listen brought a smile to my face once more,i was in that 'happy place' again.
i also ordered some silicone fluid to experiment with damping, i bought 20,000 cst and 30,000 cst,the standard fluid in used in the rocks trough is 12,500 cst.
i tried the 20,000 first and it sounded better for it,hard to say how but i noticed more string decal on upright bass notes.
next up was the 30,000 cst, this although not unpleasant seemed to kill the highs a bit,slightly less dynamic than the 20,000,i also had to knock the bias down a notch.
back to the 20,000 confirmed what i thought,so im sticking with this for a while before going back to the 12,500 to confirm its better.
https://s26.postimg.org/8hxcjbq4p/IMG_1764_1.jpg
Interesting results Jamie. I'm surprised you could hear a difference between using a damping fluid having a viscosity of 20,000cS to that of a slightly thicker fluid of 30,000cS, but in your case the damping is applied very close to the cartridge, rather than near the arm pivot point as occurs with most other arms. So I would expect choice of viscosity to have more of an effect, and be more readily noticable.
Agreed setting up a Decca for correct overhange can be tricky, but if the sides of the headshell (or mounting platform) are parallel to one another and if the cartridge is mounted 'square on', then one can use the sides of the headshell to align with the parallel lines on the alignment protractor. As you are finding out, care with the set up of a Decca pays dividends.
Welcome to the world of Decca!
cheers barry,i went with looking at the bottom side edges of the cartridge and viewed from above,i was getting some sibilance on end tracks which has now gone, so small steps forward.
i didnt think there'd be much in the fluid too but the 30,000 was noticeably more viscous.
it also passes the 20hz and 18hz vertical resonace tones on the hifi news lp so my paranoia about that having negative effects has gone too! lol
Really chuffed for you getting good results for all the effort you put in. I hope to hear it sometime, trouble is I'll either never want to listen to my TT again or I'll be off down that road of upgrading again.....I'll take that chance though lol. :champagne:
ha ha yes its a dangerous thing listening to other peoples kit,just think of the nights i returned from your place crying myself to sleep because my speakers sounded crap after listening to your harbeths :)
im seriously enjoying this cartridge,the best i have owned so far.....just saying!:carrot:
Bigman80
21-10-2017, 17:57
Pleased mate. You did the right thing getting it refurbed. I'm told a AT150MLX Will give you 90% of a Decca gold's performance. Not sure what anyone else would make of that but the guy who told me, Is very trustworthy and reliable.
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
No AT except possibly the top MC models will offer the solidity and 'presence' of a properly working Decca I think, although they have other charms. I heard a ZYX that came close and I reckon the later Rega Apheta 2 and it's new cheaper stable-mate may possibly come fairly close as well (I only know the rather wild original Apheta) and without the reliability headaches. The older solid-body Decca's could be amazing I remember.
walpurgis
21-10-2017, 23:12
The older solid-body Decca's could be amazing I remember.
They are, but I'm toying with the idea of flogging mine (downscaling system).
They are, but I'm toying with the idea of flogging mine (downscaling system).
What do you have Geoff? I might be interested.
Bigman80
22-10-2017, 06:41
No AT except possibly the top MC models will offer the solidity and 'presence' of a properly working Decca I think, although they have other charms. I heard a ZYX that came close and I reckon the later Rega Apheta 2 and it's new cheaper stable-mate may possibly come fairly close as well (I only know the rather wild original Apheta) and without the reliability headaches. The older solid-body Decca's could be amazing I remember.I haven't heard either so I can't argue lol.
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I would be surprised if any AT cartridge sounds like a Decca. An ADC does sound a bit like a Decca but nothing really sounds like a Decca. They have a life of their own!:)
Bigman80
22-10-2017, 08:45
I would be surprised if any AT cartridge sounds like a Decca. An ADC does sound a bit like a Decca but nothing really sounds like a Decca. They have a life of their own!:)Ha,. So I'm told. I'm definitely coming to listen to yours at some point !!!
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walpurgis
22-10-2017, 08:51
I would be surprised if any AT cartridge sounds like a Decca. An ADC does sound a bit like a Decca but nothing really sounds like a Decca. They have a life of their own!:)
I own several ADCs and have Deccas. Both are very nice, but I've never thought of ADCs as sounding like Deccas. My ADC 10E Mk.IV sounds very similar to the Denon DL-103R though, in a slightly more refined way. Done a side by side comparison. The nearest cartridge to the Deccas sound that I've come across is my ZYX R100 02 H (the ZYX has the edge! :)).
I own several ADCs and have Deccas. Both are very nice, but I've never thought of ADCs as sounding like Deccas. My ADC 10E Mk.IV sounds very similar to the Denon DL-103R though, in a slightly more refined way. Done a side by side comparison. The nearest cartridge to the Deccas sound that I've come across is my ZYX R100 02 H (the ZYX has the edge! :)).
I bow to you superior knowledge Geoff. I only had an ADC mk2 improved for a short while and I thought it had some Decca character. Not heard the ZYX but it is on my list!
Firebottle
22-10-2017, 09:53
Not heard the ZYX but it is on my list!
Come and listen to my Z100 :)
The nearest cartridge to the Deccas sound that I've come across is my ZYX R100 02 H (the ZYX has the edge! :)).
i found the opposite in my system hence why i had the decca re tipped.
walpurgis
22-10-2017, 10:12
i found the opposite in my system hence why i had the decca re tipped.
Not sure if you had the R100 or R100 02 Jamie. They sound different. I have both. I find the 02 H has the speed and tightness of the Deccas.
ah good point,its what alan is now using.
ah good point,its what alan is now using.Wish I'd never sold it now after the disaster with its replacement [emoji17]
it will come right for you mike,has the decca gone off yet?
it will come right for you mike,has the decca gone off yet?John would have received it on Friday past, so don't think it'll be too long before it's back.
cool,mine was a little over a week from start to finish,are you having a retip or just a check up?
cool,mine was a little over a week from start to finish,are you having a retip or just a check up?Just a check up as I'm not sure why I'm getting a low output, it's been like that since I bought it, but having tried 3 different pre amps and 2 different phono stages it was still the same, so figured I'd get it checked. If I'd thought the buying the an issue I'd have sent that back too. Anyone I asked pointed to a mismatch between phono stage and pre but I wasn't sure, the MC side of things was perfect, in fact it was 3x the volume of the MM side [emoji848] I did also ask Alan about the Fuji and the distortion I was getting, he blamed the cartridge, he was right, as the next MM I tried sounded fine so it had to be the Fuji, I always doubted it from the beginning but you know how you think you hear something, but next hour or day, it's fine, then it would rear it's ugly head again. So it went back for a refund, which the seller was very good about considering I'd bought it over a month ago.
I've also said to let me know of any potential upgrades worth doing at the same time, no point getting it back to send again at a later date.
Refund for the Fuji should hit my PayPal account on the 25th, that one is being sent for a checkup by the seller too. So he'll let me know the outcome once it's been checked with the chance to buy back if it's fixed, but I think that's unlikely.
The problem with the Decca was the main reason I gave up Ali's Slagle, if it turns out the Decca is faulty then I've shot myself in the foot ( for the 3rd time in a very costly month [emoji35] ) because I sent the Slagle for Oliver to try and he bought it so I now also need to find a decent Pre. The Xiang DAC/Pre is only a stopgap until something better comes along.
Bigman80
22-10-2017, 15:00
Just a check up as I'm not sure why I'm getting a low output, it's been like that since I bought it, but having tried 3 different pre amps and 2 different phono stages it was still the same, so figured I'd get it checked. If I'd thought the buying the an issue I'd have sent that back too. Anyone I asked pointed to a mismatch between phono stage and pre but I wasn't sure, the MC side of things was perfect, in fact it was 3x the volume of the MM side [emoji848] I did also ask Alan about the Fuji and the distortion I was getting, he blamed the cartridge, he was right, as the next MM I tried sounded fine so it had to be the Fuji, I always doubted it from the beginning but you know how you think you hear something, but next hour or day, it's fine, then it would rear it's ugly head again. So it went back for a refund, which the seller was very good about considering I'd bought it over a month ago.
I've also said to let me know of any potential upgrades worth doing at the same time, no point getting it back to send again at a later date.
Refund for the Fuji should hit my PayPal account on the 25th, that one is being sent for a checkup by the seller too. So he'll let me know the outcome once it's been checked with the chance to buy back if it's fixed, but I think that's unlikely.
The problem with the Decca was the main reason I gave up Ali's Slagle, if it turns out the Decca is faulty then I've shot myself in the foot ( for the 3rd time in a very costly month [emoji35] ) because I sent the Slagle for Oliver to try and he bought it so I now also need to find a decent Pre. The Xiang DAC/Pre is only a stopgap until something better comes along.Oh man! You've defo shot yourself in the foot because the Slagle is one wonderful bit of kit and the case it's in is ridiculously well built. I am having a great time currently and the sounds are the best I've heard in my system.
Don't despair, new autoformers are only £180 ($200). Ali has done such a good job of this one that I'd be asking him to build one if I were you.
I think you possibly haven't got the best from that Vivant either. The ZYX cart I have does distort quite often. A clean of the stylus usually sorts that out though. I use the "little green paper" it's very good.
Stay the course and you'll get there. The Decca is probably well worth having retipped and serviced. You're in a good place to end up with stunning vinyl replay.
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
Oh man! You've defo shot yourself in the foot because the Slagle is one wonderful bit of kit and the case it's in is ridiculously well built. I am having a great time currently and the sounds are the best I've heard in my system.
Don't despair, new autoformers are only £180 ($200). Ali has done such a good job of this one that I'd be asking him to build one if I were you.
I think you possibly haven't got the best from that Vivant either. The ZYX cart I have does distort quite often. A clean of the stylus usually sorts that out though. I use the "little green paper" it's very good.
Stay the course and you'll get there. The Decca is probably well worth having retipped and serviced. You're in a good place to end up with stunning vinyl replay.
Sent from my EVA-L09 using TapatalkI did notice that the Fuji improved with a clean but it never became perfect if you know what I mean, there was always an edge to things.
Glad you're liking the Slagle, I might get something built but I'm in no rush. The return of the Decca will lead me down the right path I hope.
If I could only sell my amp and speakers it would make the task a good bit easier [emoji6]
Bigman80
22-10-2017, 15:40
I did notice that the Fuji improved with a clean but it never became perfect if you know what I mean, there was always an edge to things.
Glad you're liking the Slagle, I might get something built but I'm in no rush. The return of the Decca will lead me down the right path I hope.
If I could only sell my amp and speakers it would make the task a good bit easier [emoji6]It will come good mate. No doubt.
Your gear will sell too but it's a shit market ATM. I took a huge hit to move that Alphason on.
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Yep it has been a shit market for gear over £500 for a long time. Exceptions of course are ‘vintage collectibles’. I can only see this getting worse.
walpurgis
23-10-2017, 08:46
Yep it has been a shit market for gear over £500 for a long time. Exceptions of course are ‘vintage collectibles’. I can only see this getting worse.
It works both ways. If prices are depressed, you buy cheaper.
It works both ways. If prices are depressed, you buy cheaper.
Yes, another way of saying it is: it’s a buyer’s market at the moment.
well another twist to the decca cartridge with me,the buyer on ebay had 1% feedbaclk and his pay-pal registered address was an argos store in birmingham,i didnt like the sound of that so i refunded his money,so it still here with me! perhaps the tonearm ive just bought will be a better match for it than the alphason?........
Bigman80
27-11-2017, 16:55
well another twist to the decca cartridge with me,the buyer on ebay had 1% feedbaclk and his pay-pal registered address was an argos store in birmingham,i didnt like the sound of that so i refunded his money,so it still here with me! perhaps the tonearm ive just bought will be a better match for it than the alphason?........Bloody hell mate. What arm have you bought?
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can you guess?
https://s26.postimg.org/l2xjvgzux/DSC_6292.jpg
wise move
yep ive not heard a peep from him since emailing him yesterday,i reckon i had a lucky escape there.
walpurgis
27-11-2017, 17:10
can you guess?
Connoisseur SAU2 is it? :D
southall-1998
27-11-2017, 17:11
Things happen for a reason.
S.
yes,im a great believer in 'what will be will be'
Bigman80
27-11-2017, 17:29
can you guess?
https://s26.postimg.org/l2xjvgzux/DSC_6292.jpgI've seen one before. Never heard one and now I'm punching myself in the neck for not being able to remember it's name.
An Artemiz?
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topoxforddoc
27-11-2017, 17:40
That's on a Thorens TD124, not a Rock.
hifi_dave
27-11-2017, 18:10
Zeta.
That's on a Thorens TD124, not a Rock.
thats because the owner sent me a picture,its coming from the states
I've been toying with the idea to have my dad's old LP12 restored with a unipivot arm and a Decca. I know some people say a unipivot and suspended deck is not a good idea, but others have had success with this combination, and I'm curious enough to try it. So please let me know if you do decide to sell the Decca (again). If I can source the right arm I may very well be tempted into doing something silly...
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I think you're in the same boat as myself equipment wise, it's good but something is missing, it's doing my head in too, so much so that I've thought about selling it all off and starting again [emoji17]
Having said that keep me in mind if you want rid of the Cadenza [emoji6]
I've been toying with the idea to have my dad's old LP12 restored with a unipivot arm and a Decca. I know some people say a unipivot and suspended arm is not a good idea, but others have had success with this combination, and I'm curious enough to try it. So please let me know if you do decide to sell the Decca (again). If I can source the right arm I may very well be tempted into doing something silly...
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Can I just ask as I notice in your signature you use a Croft RIAA R phono stage. What do you think of it ?
Can I just ask as I notice in your signature you use a Croft RIAA R phono stage. What do you think of it ?
I thought it was brilliant and excellent value for money - much better than the standard RIAA. A very organic sound with lots of soul, texture and weight. Some would say perhaps not the most accurate on a test bench but I couldn't care less
I now use an Audio Note M3 phono which is better - but for considerable more ££. I could easily live with the Croft, but wanted to reduce the box count and was hoping to achieve synergy with the integrated AN phono and pre, and my AN IO 2 cartridge, rather than an Icon Audio pre, Croft phono and AN cart, so sold the pre and phono on
Incidentally Croft/Decca and croft/harbeth combinations have a cult following - and I also use Harbeth 40.1 speakers now
PS. My system has changed quite a bit from the one listed in my signature, but I'm unable to find the "edit" button to update it for some reason
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I think you're in the same boat as myself equipment wise, it's good but something is missing, it's doing my head in too, so much so that I've thought about selling it all off and starting again [emoji17]
Having said that keep me in mind if you want rid of the Cadenza [emoji6]
yes mate,i cant deny that at times i thought about selling the lot and going with cd,thankfully i didnt make any rash decisions.
the cadenza went back to hifi corner for a refund.
the decca is singing away waiting for the zeta to arrive.
PS. My system has changed quite a bit from the one listed in my signature, but I'm unable to find the "edit" button to update it for some reason
go into 'Settings' on the red menu bar at the top of the page, on the left hand side is a whole list of options, click on 'Edit Signature'.
yes mate,i cant deny that at times i thought about selling the lot and going with cd,thankfully i didnt make any rash decisions.
the cadenza went back to hifi corner for a refund.
the decca is singing away waiting for the zeta to arrive.I've now got another Zyx R100, low output one this time and it's sounding brilliant. I might even sell my Decca just to add some funds back into the pot.
Firebottle has offered to upgrade my Vivant even further as he says his latest tweak makes it even better.
So that'll be sent off this week.
walpurgis
03-12-2017, 16:26
I've now got another Zyx R100, low output one this time and it's sounding brilliant. I might even sell my Decca just to add some funds back into the pot.
Firebottle has offered to upgrade my Vivant even further as he says his latest tweak makes it even better.
So that'll be sent off this week.
Alan runs a ZYX R100 too.
(as do I and an R100 H 02, excellent MC's :))
Alan runs a ZYX R100 too.
(as do I and an R100 H 02, excellent MC's :))I know, I sold that one to Alan right after I bought the Zyx Fuji, but that turned out to be faulty so I regretted selling it. All sorted now though [emoji4]
Bigman80
03-12-2017, 17:03
I've now got another Zyx R100, low output one this time and it's sounding brilliant. I might even sell my Decca just to add some funds back into the pot.
Firebottle has offered to upgrade my Vivant even further as he says his latest tweak makes it even better.
So that'll be sent off this week.The upgrade is significant. You will be pleased. I heard the mods Alan made to his last week and it was not subtle. The improvement focusses on the MC signal amplification.
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
topoxforddoc
03-12-2017, 17:07
Jamie,
I'm pleased that you're back in the Decca fold. :)
Charlie
paulf-2007
11-01-2018, 19:24
Well I bought Jamie's Decca and after setting it up in my stax arm, which was fine with a super gold and some putty, I had a disappointing afternoon. Did a basic set up and had it tracking at 1.5grams, very thin and slightly harsh sound with no bass and worse still, was vocals were difficult to hear and fading as the track played. The whole sound was like an echo. I gave up and put the Shure ultra back and all was wonderful. Going to need some help. I met a guy yesterday who is very experienced with decca's and he suggested blue tak blobs until the best sound was found, then weigh it and replace with lead. Well I couldn't even start to think about blue tak as their wasn't anywhere to start. Cart and headshell weighs just over 25 grams, I have an extra counterweight that I fitted but there is room for adjustment if the headshell needs more mass. Any thoughts?
walpurgis
11-01-2018, 19:29
Something wrong there. The Mk.IV Deccas should have a somewhat more full bodied sound than the Londons, including the Golds. I'm wondering if the coils were set up correctly.
Bigman80
11-01-2018, 19:32
Well I bought Jamie's Decca and after setting it up in my stax arm, which was fine with a super gold and some putty, I had a disappointing afternoon. Did a basic set up and had it tracking at 1.5grams, very thin and slightly harsh sound with no bass and worse still, was vocals were difficult to hear and fading as the track played. The whole sound was like an echo. I gave up and put the Shure ultra back and all was wonderful. Going to need some help. I met a guy yesterday who is very experienced with decca's and he suggested blue tak blobs until the best sound was found, then weigh it and replace with lead. Well I couldn't even start to think about blue tak as their wasn't anywhere to start. Cart and headshell weighs just over 25 grams, I have an extra counterweight that I fitted but there is room for adjustment if the headshell needs more mass. Any thoughts?What setting is your phonostage on? It's either the wrong setting or you are out of phase. I had the four pin connector on the Gold and it sounded just like you say. I swapped to the three pin and only connected the red white and green. That fixed it. Never got the bass I wanted though hence me moving it on.
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remember this cartridge is nearly double what a mk 5 weighs,i got it to sound very good using my 11g alphason and 16g zeta,both i used with fluid damping,have you checked that you tonearm is compatible?
also when you picked it up you mentioned you were giving it too your friend to try first,what tonearm did he use?
Something wrong there. The Mk.IV Deccas should have a somewhat more full bodied sound than the Londons, including the Golds. I'm wondering if the coils were set up correctly.
that's exactly how it sounded when i compared it to olivers london gold,the c4e was up a notch.
theres nothing wrong with the coils geoff,it was working fine prior to being sold.
also its calibrated to be run at 1.8 grams.
paulf-2007
11-01-2018, 20:14
My mate didn't get around to trying it. I'm sure there's nothing wrong with it Jamie, it's only been in the box in my pocket and at my mates and he hasn't even looked at it.
paulf-2007
11-01-2018, 20:20
Jamie, did you use the terminal with the green sleeve on. I used it as ground for the left channel.
walpurgis
11-01-2018, 20:37
Yeah. It's worth experimenting with neg connections and checking phase.
Jamie, did you use the terminal with the green sleeve on. I used it as ground for the left channel.
no!!!! thats for testing only,thats why it has a green sleeve on it,you just use 1 earth tag. thats your problem right there paul.
Bigman80
11-01-2018, 20:44
I said this 7 posts back.
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paulf-2007
11-01-2018, 20:44
no!!!! thats for testing only,you just use 1 earth tag. thats your problem right there paul.
Thank god for that. People are saying the coils could be open circuit etc. I did wonder why there was the green sleeve on the terminal. Should have asked you first
paulf-2007
11-01-2018, 20:46
I said this 7 posts back.
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Sorry Oliver, didn't read it properly,
have a look here,
https://s26.postimg.org/r40vzcyh5/5805338734_fb25e4a3d2_b.jpg
you use only one earth tag,i used green but either is fine,you can also blue tak the 2 earths together and just plug 1 in,i tried both ways,i didnt make a difference,i had no hum issues using just 1 earth. :)
Bigman80
11-01-2018, 21:07
Sorry Oliver, didn't read it properly,[emoji23] I know. Not to worry.
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paulf-2007
11-01-2018, 21:15
have a look here,
https://s26.postimg.org/r40vzcyh5/5805338734_fb25e4a3d2_b.jpg
you use only one earth tag,i used green but either is fine,you can also blue tak the 2 earths together and just plug 1 in,i tried both ways,i didnt make a difference,i had no hum issues using just 1 earth. :)
Makes sense now, I didn't think the gold was like that. Didn't have any problems when I tried one
Bigman80
11-01-2018, 21:32
Makes sense now, I didn't think the gold was like that. Didn't have any problems when I tried oneThey all use the three pin from that era I believe. At least it's sorted now and you can get it up and running!!
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paulf-2007
12-01-2018, 16:23
I soldered the two ground wires together and set the cart up in the headshell, set vtf to 1.8 grams, played several albums and the sound improved as the cart warmed up. Room was very cold until the heater took control. Played a test record and checked bias. Then checked arm/cart resonance, cart wobbled at 9hz, what do I need to do. To start vocals on abbey road sounded harsh so I played several half speed mastered albums and some others, drums sound so real it's fantastic.
Bigman80
12-01-2018, 16:37
I soldered the two ground wires together and set the cart up in the headshell, set vtf to 1.8 grams, played several albums and the sound improved as the cart warmed up. Room was very cold until the heater took control. Played a test record and checked bias. Then checked arm/cart resonance, cart wobbled at 9hz, what do I need to do. To start vocals on abbey road sounded harsh so I played several half speed mastered albums and some others, drums sound so real it's fantastic.IMO Decca's are a "bit of fun" that can't be a daily driver. The vocals will be harsh on some records, they'll be beautiful on another. The bass will disappear on one and then reappear on another and so on. They are excellent at percussion though. No argument there. Results will vary depending on the vinyl. When it's good, it's great. When it's bad it's awful.
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paulf-2007
12-01-2018, 17:13
IMO Decca's are a "bit of fun" that can't be a daily driver. The vocals will be harsh on some records, they'll be beautiful on another. The bass will disappear on one and then reappear on another and so on. They are excellent at percussion though. No argument there. Results will vary depending on the vinyl. When it's good, it's great. When it's bad it's awful.
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalkwould you say that not so good vinyl won't show itself as poor with other carts. A bit like lowthers, they take no prisoners but are amazing when the source and amplifier is right. I once had PX25 mono's with lowthers, for up to an hour they sounded thin and harsh, then something magical happened, the Decca seems to be just like that.
Bigman80
12-01-2018, 17:15
would you say that not so good vinyl won't show itself as poor with other carts. A bit like lowthers, they take no prisoners but are amazing when the source and amplifier is right. I once had PX25 mono's with lowthers, for up to an hour they sounded thin and harsh, then something magical happened, the Decca seems to be just like that.I'd say the Decca's will accurately demonstrate what's in the groove. If the Vinyl is a poor cut, that's what you'll get and it's merciless. Other carts are kinder to bad vinyl imo.
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paulf-2007
12-01-2018, 17:19
I'd say the Decca's will accurately demonstrate what's in the groove. If the Vinyl is a poor cut, that's what you'll get and it's merciless. Other carts are kinder to bad vinyl imo.
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Poor vinyl doesn't get played at my place, like the abbey road I bought recently, I would need to really be in the mood for it. But with plenty of great recordings to choose from I don't usually bother.
Bigman80
12-01-2018, 17:24
Poor vinyl doesn't get played at my place, like the abbey road I bought recently, I would need to really be in the mood for it. But with plenty of great recordings to choose from I don't usually bother.Poor as in the Mix or CUT. I have a remastered Abbey road which is so bass heavy I couldn't listen to it. Got another when I complained and it's better. Not questioning your care and attention to your collection [emoji6]
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paulf-2007
12-01-2018, 17:34
Poor as in the Mix or CUT. I have a remastered Abbey road which is so bass heavy I couldn't listen to it. Got another when I complained and it's better. Not questioning your care and attention to your collection [emoji6]
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalkcan you explain that last sentence Oliver, I'm not sure what that means, I don't look at my music as a collection, just music I like to listen to. Some have thousands that they don't have enough hours to listen to them all.
Bigman80
12-01-2018, 17:41
can you explain that last sentence Oliver, I'm not sure what that means, I don't look at my music as a collection, just music I like to listen to. Some have thousands that they don't have enough hours to listen to them all.Well, I thought you read my comment as "poor condition" or "not looked after" vinyl but I was refering to the actual quality of the pressing and the mix.
I then wanted to assure you that I wasn't suggesting you didn't look after your Vinyl.
Collection is basically the entire volume of your vinyl that you have "collected" over the years. Not a collection in the way of "looked at and not touched".
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paulf-2007
12-01-2018, 18:17
Well, I thought you read my comment as "poor condition" or "not looked after" vinyl but I was refering to the actual quality of the pressing and the mix.
I then wanted to assure you that I wasn't suggesting you didn't look after your Vinyl.
Collection is basically the entire volume of your vinyl that you have "collected" over the years. Not a collection in the way of "looked at and not touched".
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalkhaha, no I read it as quality of pressing or recording.
Bigman80
12-01-2018, 18:52
haha, no I read it as quality of pressing or recording.Sweet.
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topoxforddoc
12-01-2018, 19:37
Played a test record and checked bias. Then checked arm/cart resonance, cart wobbled at 9hz, what do I need to do.
9Hz tonearm cart resonance freq is bang on the button - no need to do anything about that.
paulf-2007
12-01-2018, 21:05
9Hz tonearm cart resonance freq is bang on the button - no need to do anything about that.
That's great Charlie.
What did you use to take those photographs? Nice close ups!
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paulf-2007
17-01-2018, 17:01
What did you use to take those photographs? Nice close ups!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalkwhich photos Russell?
well its back from john wrights and looking mighty fine!
from this,
https://s26.postimg.org/ftph2f5jd/IMG_1636_1.jpg
to this :)
https://s26.postimg.org/84p4emux5/IMG_1744.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/pjdy0nhft/IMG_1747.jpg
i shall be fitting it after ive had a kip :)
These were the photos I was referring to, being great closeups, what did you use to take these pics? Very nice!
Russell
which photos Russell?
I was referring to the photos taken by Jamie in post #79, sorry I didn’t realize this thread was so long! For some reason, whether it’s Tap talk, or my remote location here in the States, but I always get everything late. Often I’ll see a post for the first time and it will already be 10 pages long, I’m not sure why that is?
But great closeups of the working end of his Decca cartridge! Sharp and in focus, I’m not sure how the Decca works, but it certainly looks different.
Russell
paulf-2007
17-01-2018, 21:26
I now own the Decca, don't know for sure how it works either but some here do and will no doubt enlighten us.
I was referring to the photos taken by Jamie in post #79, sorry I didn’t realize this thread was so long! For some reason, whether it’s Tap talk, or my remote location here in the States, but I always get everything late. Often I’ll see a post for the first time and it will already be 10 pages long, I’m not sure why that is?
But great closeups of the working end of his Decca cartridge! Sharp and in focus, I’m not sure how the Decca works, but it certainly looks different.
Russell
hi russell,i used my iphone with a loupe over the lense :)
hi russell,i used my iphone with a loupe over the lense :)
Well I will have to get me one! I have a digital camera that does Macro, and does a good job, but not that good. I’ve contemplated buying a USB microscope, they can take great shots of stylus and record grooves, etc. but a decent one costs a few pounds. Thanks for the tip!
Russell
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