View Full Version : Croft pre-amps differences.
Hi all,
I recently found this great forum and it seems there's a pretty good deal of Croft nerdiness going on here - super!
I have a Croft Vita pre-amp (6SL7s) and have a few questions regarding it compared to other Croft pre.
1) how do you find it compared to the (ecc83) Crofts which the new ones are.
2) how do they differ soundwise?
All the EA issues aside I must say that these Crofts has the best design and I prefer the single volume. I pair mine with an Exposure Super 18 and would like a Twinstar later on - if it betters the Exposure, that is.
cheers,
Lars
The best answer is to make the effort to visit your nearest dealer and have a listen. Failing that, email Glenn and he'll put you straight with NO bull or lies.. With any luck, you may not need to do anything to yours (unlike me....:( )
I know Glenn likes twin volume controls, but this may have more to do with the lack of decent stereo ones of the correct value for all I know (this has been discussed to death on here and elsewhere.
Glenn is approachable, friendly and NOT AT ALL embarrassed by his earlier work.......
Thanks DSJR. I did what you suggested.
Glenn says the Vita is not quite as good as the Micro Basic 25 - similar in character but the MB25 is more dynamic sounding. He suggests though that I keep the Vita and pair it with a Series 7 amp.
That new line must be amazing because the Vita is a fine fine sounding pre-amp!
hifi_dave
02-02-2010, 20:07
Glenn's new products are indeed 'amazing' and how/why he does them for the money I really don't know...:scratch:
I'm sure Glenn could do some fettling on the Vita and would promise to leave the stereo volume control alone in the process :)
chris@panteg
03-02-2010, 10:38
Glenn's new products are indeed 'amazing' and how/why he does them for the money I really don't know...:scratch:
Hi dave ' i am thinking of upgrading from my 640p 'and am quite keen to try either the micro basic or the stand alone phono stage ' .
At the moment i wish to continue with the 740a 'as i like it very much , so the phono stage seem to make more sense ' is it considrably better than the little pre or not much in it .
hifi_dave
03-02-2010, 12:11
Describing or quantifying the differences between items of hi-fi isn't easy. So, how can put it ? ..:scratch:
The Micro Basic pre at £350 is probably the best phono stage you can buy for less than £1K and it has a free pre with it. However, the RIAA phono stage is better and at £500 it should be. How much better is up to you to decide. All I can say is that if you had £500 in your pocket for a phono stage, you would buy the RIAA.
chris@panteg
03-02-2010, 12:19
Thanks dave
I think i will aim for the RIAA then, i will PM you when i am ready to buy :) ok
hifi_dave
03-02-2010, 12:28
Okey, dokey - it is a good 'un.
Hi Lars,
I have a Croft Vita pre-amp (6SL7s) and have a few questions regarding it compared to other Croft pre.
1) how do you find it compared to the (ecc83) Crofts which the new ones are.
2) how do they differ soundwise?
Welcome to AOS :)
I'll be able to give an answer to your question in the next few days, as a friend of mine is borrowing a Micro 25R (ECC83-based) and we'll be comparing it to my Charisma-X (6SL7-based), so I'll let you know what I think. It's something I've been curious about, too!
I've spoken with Glenn about this, and his feelings were that the 6SL7s were more microphonic and less reliable than the ECC83s, however he was fairly non-committal as to which he reckoned sounded best.
Anyway, I'll let you know what I think of this myself in due course :cool:
Marco.
Hi Lars,
Welcome to AOS :)
I'll be able to give an answer to your question in the next few days, as a friend of mine is borrowing a Micro 25R (ECC83-based) and we'll be comparing it to my Charisma-X (6SL7-based), so I'll let you know what I think. It's something I've been curious about, too!
I've spoken with Glenn about this, and his feelings were that the 6SL7s were more microphonic and less reliable than the ECC83s, however he was fairly non-committal as to which he reckoned sounded best.
Anyway, I'll let you know what I think of this myself in due course :cool:
Marco.
Hi Marco,
Thanks! This forum seems like one of the good ones.
Yes, please. I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts when you get to do some serious testing. Especially because I've been emailing quite a bit with Glenn the last couple of days regarding turning my Vita into something on par with the Charisma. Do you have pics of yours? I get the impression that Glenn is all in favour of the 25 "R" due to top-notch components and channel separation - Croft classic layout.
Poor old Glenn. All this time on the computer means less amp-making and beer time....;)
Yes, please. I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts when you get to do some serious testing. Especially because I've been emailing quite a bit with Glenn the last couple of days regarding turning my Vita into something on par with the Charisma. Do you have pics of yours? I get the impression that Glenn is all in favour of the 25 "R" due to top-notch components and channel separation - Croft classic layout.
Hi Lars,
Here's a picture of mine as standard (apart from the 6SL7s) before it was heavily modified:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/5307/copy3ofmarcoscroftchari.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/i/copy3ofmarcoscroftchari.jpg/)
It now has a heavy-duty power supply in a separate box, MOSFET rectification, a high-quality Takman Seiden (metal film) stereo stepped attenuator, Obligato smoothing caps, Clarity Cap ESA coupling caps, Eichmann bullet plug phono sockets, and NOS RCA 5691 output valves on the line output, NOS Brimar CV1985s on the phono stage, and a NOS Tesla (not JJ) E83CC on the regulator section.
Yes, it does sound stunning! However, a reliable source informs me that the 25R is no sonic slouch either, and a comparison will be carried out between the two tomorrow....
I'll let you know how I get on :cool:
Marco.
I wonder if Glenn built that one - the wiring doesn't look quite tidy enough.......
Dunno, mate - but it looks nothing like that inside now, anyway! :lol:
Marco.
Well let's see the pics then!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those two big caps around the input selector look(ed) pretty mean. Were they the output ones?
I'll need to wait until one of my mates are round again to take a decent picture with their camera phones - the one on mine is shit.
The caps you're referring to are the coupling caps, which were Ducati (decent but nothing special) and are now Clarity Cap ESA (way, way better) :)
Marco.
Ali Tait
04-02-2010, 13:27
Fitted some of these myself.Very good for the money.SCR are better,but way more expensive.
Hi Ali,
Those are the teflon ones, aren't they - could you post a link to where you buy them from, as I may have use for them in another project? :)
Marco.
Mine's got ERO rectangular blue box shaped things hidden under the tag strip. My soldering isn't anywhere near good enough to tackle replacing these. I'll just have to bite the bullet and grovel to Glenn in due course...
Poor old Glenn. All this time on the computer means less amp-making and beer time....;)
Yes DSJR and this time around it was all your fault, haha ;)
Cool pic, Marco. I guess Glenn's upgrade will be going in that direction when the times come. I'm considering to go all the way with an external toroid too....
Hi Ali,
Those are the teflon ones, aren't they - could you post a link to where you buy them from, as I may have use for them in another project? :)
Marco.
Here you go Marco LINK (http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/scr_teflon.html) nice caps use them on my DAC, cheaper then the V-Caps but not as many values.
Kirk
hifi_dave
04-02-2010, 17:00
Did any of you get to hear the Mega Micro ? We had one on demo for a while - a standard pre box, choc full of fat, squatty tubes and a power supply built into the Series 4 power-amp case. It was absolutely stunning, making all the others sound like you'd put a thick wooly blanket over the speakers...:band:
We sold one but then Glenn decided he couldn't be assed to make any more because they were fiddly and time consuming and that was that....:doh:
Yes DSJR and this time around it was all your fault, haha ;)
Excuse me, I haven't contacted Glenn in nearly a year now.......:scratch::eek:
Did any of you get to hear the Mega Micro ? We had one on demo for a while - a standard pre box, choc full of fat, squatty tubes and a power supply built into the Series 4 power-amp case. It was absolutely stunning, making all the others sound like you'd put a thick wooly blanket over the speakers...:band:
We sold one but then Glenn decided he couldn't be assed to make any more because they were fiddly and time consuming and that was that....:doh:
Yeah, and your demo one had buzzy transformers too.....:lol:
http://hometheaterreview.com/croft-series-3-power-amplifier-reviewed
I owned a Seies 3 OTL for a while and it sounded lovely until one of the four supply rail fuses kept blowing for no reason and at random. My Micro series 4PP is a similar circuit to the Mega Micro, but with simpler supplies and ordinary valves, rather than the octal types..
Wasn't Glenn considering a no holds barred Series 25 with external supplies and a £2K+ price tag? Trouble is, apart from a couple of peeps here, could anyone buy them? I bet it would pee all over that £10K ARC Reference thingy, despite the latter being chock full of Clarity caps...
Hi all, I'm new round here but as I'm currently trying out a Micro 25R & Series 7 R power, I have to say they sound stunning.
I'm using an Ortofon 2M black on my Nottingham deck insted of my usual Lyra Argo I & Heed Quasar phono stage & I'm amazed how good it sounds.
It's great to see others who are fans of Croft gear.
Cheers Simon.
Ali Tait
04-02-2010, 19:49
Hi Ali,
Those are the teflon ones, aren't they - could you post a link to where you buy them from, as I may have use for them in another project? :)
Marco.
Hi Marco,
As Kirk posted,hifi collective sell them.I got mine from diyhifisupply when the pound was stronger! Guess you'd be better off buying them here now.
Excuse me, I haven't contacted Glenn in nearly a year now.......:scratch::eek:
Just kidding - you gave me the good advice about contacting Glenn to help me get my questions sorted out.
Hi Marco,
As Kirk posted,hifi collective sell them.I got mine from diyhifisupply when the pound was stronger! Guess you'd be better off buying them here now.
Also got mine from diyhifisupply in the better times.
Ali Tait
04-02-2010, 20:09
Yeah worked out cheaper then!
I recently bought an old Micro II off a kind member here (thanks again Alan if you're reading!). I emailed Glenn for some advice and he responded quickly with good/free advice with no thought of financial gain.
I was so impressed with his service levels I ended up shipping it straight to him for a once over and to update it to latest output stage spec. He received it yesterday and contacted me in the evening saying it was done and would I like him to change the noisy/microphonic ECC83s - I proceeded as his choice was the same as mine (JJs), and at a price better than I could get them for!
It's being collected Monday by UPS - can't wait to hook it up and have a listen! I've been running DIY modified Chinese pre's up until now; I started with a Marantz 7 cct clone (whatever that is, bore no relation to any Marantz cct I ever saw!) to which I fitted decent selector & volume controls, rewired with star-point earthing and fitted some decent tubes.
I happily used this for a year or two, but it was line level only and when the opportunity arose to get a Yaqin MS-12B I took it to try the valve phono stage. This has been a revelation compared to the Naim cards I was using before, much preferable to my ears - the Yaqin is still stock except for some decent tubes. While vinyl sounds better than my previous valve pre and Naim phono cards, line level is not as good - I initially intended to rebuild the Yaqin, but then the Micro came up.
I suspect this will offer me all I need (and hopefully more) at reasonable cost (both purchase price and service costs from Glenn).
Has anyone compared sound from a Chinese preamp and a Croft Micro?
Sorry, long rambling post!
Richard
Hi Marco
Very nice Croft Charisma, can you tell me is the line stage with anode follower or cathode follower.?
Just because i just ordre a Croft Series 7, and my old Croft epoch is with a cathode follower. The cathode follower is more reclining (soft)
Maybe the Anode follower suit the serie 7 better.
best jan
best jan
How did the A/B'ing go, Marco?
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