New toy - Jolida JD9 MKII

[Bigman80]

Hi all,

Not being in the market for a phono stage (very happy with the OTP MK2) and subsequently seeing everyone selling some very affordable and highly rated gear, caused a pique of interest. There is so much gear floating about at very good prices that when i saw this :-

2114921149

I felt a little moment of "i wonder what thats like"

So I've ponied up on a whim and bought it.

Heres some detail which as yet doesnt mean much to me :

JOLIDA JD9 MK11 PHONO PRE-AMPLIFIER in excellent condition & supplied in original packaging.

JOLIDA FACTORY 1 upgrade:-

Addition of resistor array to the input.

INTIMATE AUDIO UPGRADE:- (carried out July 2017)

1. 12AX7 / ECC83 Harma Retro Cryogenic valves

(The Harma ECC83 Retro CRYO is a true sounding recreation of the famous Mullard ECC83

The ECC83-Retro produces the warm detail and harmonically rich midrange that made the Mullard sound so famous. The valve has been designed to have a smooth harmonic slope which gives a warm crunch. The Cryo treatment gives greater depth and clarity to the valve sound, sweetening the highs and tightening the lows .The Cryo also adds a crisp bite to the valve making this the ideal choice to add crunch and punch to your sound. )

2. Valve damper rings.

3. Mundorf Mcap Supreme Capacitors.

4. Bitumastic damping sheets extensively used in chassis & cover.

5. All Op Amps replaced -

2x Analogue Devices AD843KNZ

2x Burr Brown OPA627BP

2x Linear Technology LT1028

6.Russ Andrews 'Silencer' hard wired within chassis.

Specifications:-


The frequency response is listed in the spec sheet as 5Hz to 110KHz (+/- 1dB).

The signal to noise ratio is > 100dB, and total harmonic distortion is < 0.02%.

The input/output impedance of 100K/600 ohms.

It has settings for MM: 70dB, 5mV

MC High: 85dB, 0.5mV to 1.5mV

MC Low: 95dB, 0.25mV to 0.5mV

Input resistance: 100 ohm, 300 ohm, 1Kohm, 47Kohm

Input capacitance: 47pF, 100pF, 150pF, 220pF

A quick add up shows the upgrades by intimateaudio work out to £200 in parts alone.

I'll add more pictures and a few thoughts when its here and been listened to for a week or so. I'd be really interested to hear the thoughts of anyone who's heard one!

[Bigman80]

It's here. It's rather large lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170821/41dc7f01bf5b1f0800a5aaef3583609c.jpg

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[Firebottle]

...and?

[walpurgis]

:popcorn:

[struth]

:zzz:

[Bigman80]

Lol, well first impressions are verygood. Very detailed but it takes about 60minutes to get to its best apparently but I am out now. Further impressions later !

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[Ian7633]

Lol, well first impressions are verygood. Very detailed but it takes about 60minutes to get to its best apparently but I am out now. Further impressions later !

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Can you do Ronnie Corbett?, he always made me laugh........

[Bigman80]

Can you do Ronnie Corbett?, he always made me laugh........Hahaha, nope. I do a very good Arnie though.

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[Bigman80]

Had a listen to a few songs and so far so good. Very very detailed. Only really Listened to Electric ladyland by Jimi Hendrix but so far it's been immersive and engaging. I'm going to give it a week of tuning into it as I've been listening to the FB Tron almost exclusively. Gonna roll some valves in it tomorrow thanks to Firebottle's handsome collection! Should be a good morning.

More to follow.

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[Manicatel]

I'm extremely happy with my Jolida glass DAC, which has been modded with different valves, caps etc.
I'd put it in the "giant-killer" category.
If the Jolida Phono stage is of equivalent quality, I'd say you could well be on to a winner.
I'll be interested in your thoughts.
Enjoy.

[Bigman80]

I'm extremely happy with my Jolida glass DAC, which has been modded with different valves, caps etc.
I'd put it in the "giant-killer" category.
If the Jolida Phono stage is of equivalent quality, I'd say you could well be on to a winner.
I'll be interested in your thoughts.
Enjoy.Oooh. A Jolida DAC?! I'll have a look into that. The phonostage is best described by saying : I keep sitting here listening and don't want to stop. It's very engaging and morish.

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[Manicatel]

Jolida glass mkIII DAC.
I had it modded with different caps & ck5755 tubes, along with their adaptors.
It doesn't have a remote control & on the USB input, it doesn't do hi res rates.
BUT, it just sounds great. Vocals, bass, sweet top end, loads of detail & micro detail, fantastic sound stage etc etc etc.
In standard form, it is/was about £500 new & the mods added about £250, iirc.
I am familiar with the Weiss DAC, at over 3 times the price of my Jolida. It is an excellent piece of equipment. But listening to the two back to back, I don't think the Jolida is lacking.
Quite rare, but worth tracking down if you can!
Anyway, back to the phono stage.................

[Bigman80]

Indeed!

So input welcome here.

I have attached a pic of the loading options etc and it's currently set on medium gain output, 100 ohm and no Pico Fared. Would any change that for a ZYX Bloom R50?

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[struth]

dont see the pic oli?

[Bigman80]

That's because I didn't add it lol. Doh!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170821/901f80f569407f6274645fbb909fe88d.jpg

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[Firebottle]

I'd go for the 300 ohm load Oli, as you found the ZYX to sound better with 220 ohm.

Got the message about the valves.

[Bigman80]

Cheers, Al. I will give that a go.

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[smangus]

My ZYX Yatra sounds really good with the 220 plugs in the OTP, with the 47 or 100s it can sound suppressed/compressed and a bit echoey.

[Bigman80]

My ZYX Yatra sounds really good with the 220 plugs in the OTP, with the 47 or 100s it can sound suppressed/compressed and a bit echoey.I'd like a bit more than 100 but the 300 didn't quite do it. I previously loaded the OTP at 220 and felt that was spot on.

The Jolida at 100 is very impressive though.

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[Bigman80]

So, half a day having a listen to the Jolida, new Vivant, FB-Tron and the FB-OTP MK2.

I'm glad to report the Jolida gave up no ground to anything we listened to today. Everything does things a little differently but the Jolida was very impressive to my ears. The best part is we managed to do a bit of tube rolling which has convinced me the Harma cryo valves should be taken seriously ! I would love to try some vintage NOS types so that's one for the future!

Next though is the removal of what I consider substandard components in the signal path. Pics to follow in a few weeks when the work has been done. No changes whatsoever are going to be done to the circuitry, just like for like swaps with better components and ultra low tolerances. Also up is to add another set of BurrBrown OPA627s too.


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[Bigman80]

An earphones session proved useful tonight, I swapped the load to 1k and I think it got better! I'll need to have a listen through the speaker's obvs but so far so good. I think for the money, this is a bit of a bargain!

So, capacitors. I can't find 4.7uf 63v polypropylene caps to replace the orange drop type. Any ideas? I don't want to swap values as I want to keep things as original as possible but with better components.

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[RothwellAudio]

I felt a little moment of "i wonder what thats like"

So I've ponied up on a whim and bought it.

Heres some detail which as yet doesnt mean much to me :


INTIMATE AUDIO UPGRADE:- (carried out July 2017)
The ECC83-Retro produces the warm detail and harmonically rich midrange that made the Mullard sound so famous. The valve has been designed to have a smooth harmonic slope which gives a warm crunch. The Cryo treatment gives greater depth and clarity to the valve sound, sweetening the highs and tightening the lows .The Cryo also adds a crisp bite to the valve making this the ideal choice to add crunch and punch to your sound. )
Specifications:-


MC High: 85dB, 0.5mV to 1.5mV

MC Low: 95dB, 0.25mV to 0.5mV

Input resistance: 100 ohm, 300 ohm, 1Kohm, 47Kohm

Input capacitance: 47pF, 100pF, 150pF, 220pF


There are some things about the Jolida phonostage that bother me. First is the quoted gain of 85dB and 95dB. That's totally insane. Typical MC gain requirements are about 60dB, maybe 70dB at the top end. Why would you want 35dB more? I'm assured via another forum that the figures are incorrect and the gain is a lot less. But that bothers me even more. I'd be uncomfortable buying a product made by a company that can't even measure gain.
Secondly, the phonostage is marketed as a valve (or tube) phonostage with no mention that the front end is an op-amp, so about half of it is solid-state, not valve. I'm not a valve purist but I wonder if the valves are there for marketing purposes as much as anything else.
BTW, "a warm crunch"? I'm not sure that hi-fi is supposed to add crunchiness to anything. I suspect that description is taken from a sales pitch aimed at the guitar amp market. Of course, a guitar amp is a totally different beast to a phonostage.
There's a huge thread all about modifying the Jolida here:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/official-jolida-jd9-thread.344317/

Anyway, if you got it at a reasonable price and it sounds good, that's all that matters in the end. What is it like in terms of signal-to-noise ratio?

[walpurgis]

I have doubts about 'cryo treatment'. The low temperature extremes contracting the valve glass envelope to the extent that the seal to the pins is compromised?

[Bigman80]

Hey Andrew, yes youre quite rights. It's about 100% opamp driven phonostage with valves after the effect but valve rolling yesterday showed that they do make a difference. I presume the crunch part of the description is a bit of spiel as they are really very fluid. I think you're right about the guitar aimed marketing. They do provide excellent clarity and resolution. I think more can be achieved though but at £18ea they are great value.

I'm sure there are warmer valves but in reality these are very good although my valve experience is limited. Alan's is much more thorough and they impressed him.

There is a LOT of gain and yes I agree, I am not entirely sure why. It's not noisy though, which is impressive.

Whilst I agree that

A) if the manufacturers can't measure accurately then it would sound alarm bells

B) marketing it as a Valve stage is naughty

At some point your ears must take over from the spec sheet and I'm very glad i bought it.

The variable dip switches are good too and they are great for the learning curve which I want to take.

If you fancy a listen, you're more than welcome to pop in!

Oliver.



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[struth]

I have doubts about 'cryo treatment'. The low temperature extremes contracting the valve glass envelope to the extent that the seal to the pins is compromised?

be more likely the pins will contract more than the glass, although the end result would be similar i guess. pyrex glass has a small coefficient compared to metal

[Bigman80]

be more likely the pins will contract more than the glass, although the end result would be similar i guess. pyrex glass has a small coefficient compared to metalIsn't something to do with molecular realignment of the metal?

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[Firebottle]

Secondly, the phonostage is marketed as a valve (or tube) phonostage with no mention that the front end is an op-amp, so about half of it is solid-state, not valve.

Hi Andrew,

The gain figures alarmed me when I first saw them as well. The actual topology is 3 op-amps and 1 valve per channel. I guess the 3 op-amps are being 'run' conservatively, that is with fairly low gain figures for each. The first op-amp is a very low noise LT1028. It looks as if the RIAA is split with part being done passively and the other part via feedback on the 3rd chip, I hope to confirm this at a later date.

Rather more than half solid-state then, the valve stage is arranged as an SRPP, again with a low gain figure of about x 4.5.

:cool:

[RothwellAudio]

Isn't something to do with molecular realignment of the metal?
Yes. When I first heard about cryogenic treatment I did think it was audiophile mumbo-jumbo but when I looked into it I discovered that it's a widely used treatment in the materials science industry similar to (the converse of?) heat treatment, used for hardening metals. I'm sure there's more to it than that and I may have misrepresented it :scratch: However, how that relates to valves and the effects on audio performance I don't know.


The gain figures alarmed me when I first saw them as well. The actual topology is 3 op-amps and 1 valve per channel.
Rather more than half solid-state then, the valve stage is arranged as an SRPP, again with a low gain figure of about x 4.5.

At least they used a low-noise op-amp. I'd be cautious about "chip rolling" willy-nilly. Actually, I tried rolling an op-amp once and found they're just not the right shape for rolling :lol:
So, it's mostly op-amps with a tube thrown in for marketing. Am I the cynical one or are they? :scratch:

[Bigman80]

Yes. When I first heard about cryogenic treatment I did think it was audiophile mumbo-jumbo but when I looked into it I discovered that it's a widely used treatment in the materials science industry similar to (the converse of?) heat treatment, used for hardening metals. I'm sure there's more to it than that and I may have misrepresented it :scratch: However, how that relates to valves and the effects on audio performance I don't know.

At least they used a low-noise op-amp. I'd be cautious about "chip rolling" willy-nilly. Actually, I tried rolling an op-amp once and found they're just not the right shape for rolling [emoji38]
So, it's mostly op-amps with a tube thrown in for marketing. Am I the cynical one or are they? :scratch:I think it's a bit harsh to think of the Jolida like that, especially when it sounds like it does. It's a very good unit. It is what it is. A hybrid of sorts. I like it.

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[RothwellAudio]

I think it's a bit harsh to think of the Jolida like that, especially when it sounds like it does. It's a very good unit. It is what it is. A hybrid of sorts. I like it.

Yes, no offence intended. It's probably me who's the cynical one - must lighten up :lol:

[Bigman80]

Yes, no offence intended. It's probably me who's the cynical one - must lighten up [emoji38]No offence taken, Andrew. It's right to point out the "marketing" as being slightly misleading. I can imagine it will have caught people out. Luckily I was aware of what I was purchasing. I think in terms of this phonostage it's definitely a bit of the best of both worlds. It may not suit everyone such as a Valve purist, but for me, in the same way the FB-Monos are a hybrid, it/they sounds good to me.

I think it'd surprise a few people.



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[RothwellAudio]

It may not suit everyone such as a Valve purist, but for me, in the same way the FB-Monos are a hybrid, it/they sounds good to me.
Yes, I'm no purist either and I think it's a good idea to use whatever components/technologies are available. No one would bat an eye at a circuit that used both jfets and bipolar junction transistors, or mosfets and op-amps, so why not valves and whatever else the designer sees fit? Semi-religious adherence to one particular type of device seems a bit blinkered to me.

[Bigman80]

Yes, I'm no purist either and I think it's a good idea to use whatever components/technologies are available. No one would bat an eye at a circuit that used both jfets and bipolar junction transistors, or mosfets and op-amps, so why not valves and whatever else the designer sees fit? Semi-religious adherence to one particular type of device seems a bit blinkered to me.Absolutely!! More hybrids!!!!

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[Arkless Electronics]

Yes. When I first heard about cryogenic treatment I did think it was audiophile mumbo-jumbo but when I looked into it I discovered that it's a widely used treatment in the materials science industry similar to (the converse of?) heat treatment, used for hardening metals. I'm sure there's more to it than that and I may have misrepresented it :scratch: However, how that relates to valves and the effects on audio performance I don't know.

At least they used a low-noise op-amp. I'd be cautious about "chip rolling" willy-nilly. Actually, I tried rolling an op-amp once and found they're just not the right shape for rolling :lol:
So, it's mostly op-amps with a tube thrown in for marketing. Am I the cynical one or are they? :scratch:

I certainly consider cryogenic treatment as audio mumbo jumbo!

I'm a big fan of hybrids... when done properly and for the right reasons! This I consider a cynical marketing ploy, as is unfortunately often the case.

To me a proper hybrid is when valves and SS are combined in the same circuit stage in order to exploit the best properties of both types of device and hopefully give results that would be impossible to get when using just valves or just SS (ie probably also beyond the technical understanding of the average customer as to why I've done it!:doh:). Making an entirely SS unit and then sticking a valve buffer or x4 amp on the end of it is "not cricket" in my way of looking at it and is almost certainly a marketing ploy.... especially as said customers can understand "now with tube output stage!!":rolleyes:

Anyone remember those Luxman integrated amps with a random single valve included which was placed about 6" from where it needed to be so it was just behind the front panel... with a perspex window to look at it glow? It probably says a lot about my lack of understanding of customers buying motivations in that I would think "what idiot would be so easily persuaded by such a simplistic and cynical marketing ploy!?" whereas the customers probably think "wow that's way cool man I want one..." Replace the valve bit with "huge analogue VU meters on an amp" and I have the same opinion! Adds maybe £25 to the cost of making the amp and so £100 to purchase cost and yet is usually as much use as a chocolate fireguard! Boys and their toys eh....

[Bigman80]

I certainly consider cryogenic treatment as audio mumbo jumbo!

I'm a big fan of hybrids... when done properly and for the right reasons! This I consider a cynical marketing ploy, as is unfortunately often the case.

To me a proper hybrid is when valves and SS are combined in the same circuit stage in order to exploit the best properties of both types of device and hopefully give results that would be impossible to get when using just valves or just SS (ie probably also beyond the technical understanding of the average customer as to why I've done it!:doh:). Making an entirely SS unit and then sticking a valve buffer or x4 amp on the end of it is "not cricket" in my way of looking at it and is almost certainly a marketing ploy.... especially as said customers can understand "now with tube output stage!!":rolleyes:

Anyone remember those Luxman integrated amps with a random single valve included which was placed about 6" from where it needed to be so it was just behind the front panel... with a perspex window to look at it glow? It probably says a lot about my lack of understanding of customers buying motivations in that I would think "what idiot would be so easily persuaded by such a simplistic and cynical marketing ploy!?" whereas the customers probably think "wow that's way cool man I want one..." Replace the valve bit with "huge analogue VU meters on an amp" and I have the same opinion! Adds maybe £25 to the cost of making the amp and so £100 to purchase cost and yet is usually as much use as a chocolate fireguard! Boys and their toys eh....Ha ha, Jez. I knew you'd be a fan of cryo [emoji23]

Most people who swear by CD usually have some sort of buffer somewhere. For me, it's no different here and let's be honest, in this additive hobby of ours, £500 on a phonostage is not a great deal of money. In fact, there are MM only stages that cost WAY more than the Jolida and the Jolida Is very versatile. It is what it is. A very good sounding phonostage sold under a lie hahaha.

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[Macca]

Most people who swear by CD usually have some sort of buffer somewhere.

No, absolutely not.

[walpurgis]

Anyone remember those Luxman integrated amps with a random single valve included which was placed about 6" from where it needed to be so it was just behind the front panel... with a perspex window to look at it glow?

Yes. I remember those. I think there was even a DIY version under the LuxKit label.

And for those who didn't know. Yes, Luxman did do kit amps for home assembly. Rather as Dynaco did (wouldn't mind getting my hands on a good Stereo 70 actually :)).

[Bigman80]

No, absolutely not.I'm sure there are members here with a valve buffer attached in the signal path.

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[walpurgis]

I'm sure there are members here with a valve buffer attached in the signal path

Yup. It works for me! :)

Definitely sounds better. Whether it measures better or not, I don't care!

[Bigman80]

Yup. It works for me! :)Works for me too, Geoff.

Best thing about this purchase was the lack of expecting anything from it. It's a purchase i made to explore upgrades etc polyester to polypropylene caps etc, nothing fancy just a project. Luckily, I really like it. You know if I didn't it'd be on its way back to eBay lol.

Looking into Vintage microphone transformers to make a SUT so I can see how that affects the sound. Having a variety of settings available on the Jolida was another selling point. I nearly went for the Primare R32 on here but that wasn't really in keeping with my "experimentation" frame of mind.

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[Macca]

I'm sure there are members here with a valve buffer attached in the signal path.

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I'm sure there are but that's not 'most people who swear by cd'?

I'd say that digital aficionados tend to be solid-state using, no nonsense objectivists. At least that is my impression from reading various forums over the years.

There's always a few exceptions to the rule of course, but I wouldn't have a valve buffer if you paid me. It really shouldn't be necessary for a digital system, and if it is then it is a sticking plaster trying to cover a more fundamental problem.

[Arkless Electronics]

Yup. It works for me! :)

Definitely sounds better. Whether it measures better or not, I don't care!


Works for me too, Geoff.

Best thing about this purchase was the lack of expecting anything from it. It's a purchase i made to explore upgrades etc polyester to polypropylene caps etc, nothing fancy just a project. Luckily, I really like it. You know if I didn't it'd be on its way back to eBay lol.

Looking into Vintage microphone transformers to make a SUT so I can see how that affects the sound. Having a variety of settings available on the Jolida was another selling point. I nearly went for the Primare R32 on here but that wasn't really in keeping with my "experimentation" frame of mind.

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Oh dear..... There is a gulf a mile wide between my thinking and that of many audiophiles me thinks!

I would never add a valve buffer under any circumstances... I'd build one for a customer of course if they asked me to but I would not use one myself. I'd obviously use a cathode follower (the correct name for a "valve buffer" in 95% of cases) where the circuitry dictated that one was necessary, but I'd never add one that wasn't required in order to deliberately add some sort of colouration:eek:

I also wouldn't touch vintage mic transformers with a barge pole!! Adding distortion and colouration to make the sound "nicer" is to me as garlic is to a vampire!!

[Bigman80]

Well, let's be fair Macca, "most people" i hear from about audio related matters is on this forum rather than on a population based scale, so in terms of total accuracy maybe I should have said "there are folk on here using buffers who are enjoying them and think they are a valued addition to their system"

Whether anyone would use them is another matter.

I haven't had anything with a buffer so now I have, it's all about learning for me now and this is something new in terms of construction and design. Job done!

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[Bigman80]

Oh dear..... There is a gulf a mile wide between my thinking and that of many audiophiles me thinks!

I would never add a valve buffer under any circumstances... I'd build one for a customer of course if they asked me to but I would not use one myself. I'd obviously use a cathode follower (the correct name for a "valve buffer" in 95% of cases) where the circuitry dictated that one was necessary, but I'd never add one that wasn't required in order to deliberately add some sort of colouration:eek:

I also wouldn't touch vintage mic transformers with a barge pole!! Adding distortion and colouration to make the sound "nicer" is to me as garlic is to a vampire!!Haha, Jez, it's not a mile wide but your thoughts are more "purist"

I approached this from a point of view where I may be able to learn something from it. That's all. Mods, valves, loading, capacitance etc are all new to me in terms of audio. This is a very easily unit to modify as the 101 pages dedicated to it on Audio Karma demonstrate.

I've already learned a few bits and I have only had it a couple of days. It's paying off already.

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[alphaGT]

Thanks Oliver, I've learned more about the Jolida pre from this thread than I have from 5 or 6 magazine reviews! It has been an object of interest for me for a year or two, and yes even after reading all those reviews I was still under the impression that it was a tube powered unit.

Seeing them sold used on Audiogon I was somewhat amused at how many were modified after purchase. Seems lots of people buy them with modification in mind? One thing is certain, when it comes to phono preamps, we have plenty to choose from. But finding a good one at a reasonable price is an actual find!

Years ago i bought a Musical Surroundings Phonomena, a giveaway price on a used unit. And different from the newer ones, mine had a battery power supply in a two chassis design. But the reason I bring it up is the selector switches look almost identical. And the selections are nearly identical, except for those gain ratings. I think mine tops out at 68 or 70db?

At any rate, despite what has been revealed in your thread, the fact that you are pleased with it makes me want to pop for one myself, and see how it stacks up against my old standby. It may be a while before I get a $5k BAT phono pre! Or the Aesthetix pre, that I fell in love with at a show long, long ago. I wonder how much better they are at ten times the price? Anyone know?

And PS, I've always thought that Cryo treatment was a load of whooy, remember the Tice Clock from the early 90's was it? While I am sure there are those who do actually "Cryo Treat", their parts, I suspect that many only say they do, it's rather hard to prove after the fact. And no proof or good theory as to why it should sound better anyway. But hey, if some feel they hear an improvement, more power to them. And as far as these tubes, maybe they treat the metal parts before they put them in the bottle?


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[Bigman80]

Thanks Oliver, I've learned more about the Jolida pre from this thread than I have from 5 or 6 magazine reviews! It has been an object of interest for me for a year or two, and yes even after reading all those reviews I was still under the impression that it was a tube powered unit.

Seeing them sold used on Audiogon I was somewhat amused at how many were modified after purchase. Seems lots of people buy them with modification in mind? One thing is certain, when it comes to phono preamps, we have plenty to choose from. But finding a good one at a reasonable price is an actual find!

Years ago i bought a Musical Surroundings Phonomena, a giveaway price on a used unit. And different from the newer ones, mine had a battery power supply in a two chassis design. But the reason I bring it up is the selector switches look almost identical. And the selections are nearly identical, except for those gain ratings. I think mine tops out at 68 or 70db?

At any rate, despite what has been revealed in your thread, the fact that you are pleased with it makes me want to pop for one myself, and see how it stacks up against my old standby. It may be a while before I get a $5k BAT phono pre! Or the Aesthetix pre, that I fell in love with at a show long, long ago. I wonder how much better they are at ten times the price? Anyone know?

And PS, I've always thought that Cryo treatment was a load of whooy, remember the Tice Clock from the early 90's was it? While I am sure there are those who do actually "Cryo Treat", their parts, I suspect that many only say they do, it's rather hard to prove after the fact. And no proof or good theory as to why it should sound better anyway. But hey, if some feel they hear an improvement, more power to them. And as far as these tubes, maybe they treat the metal parts before they put them in the bottle?


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Hi Russell,

Well i am pleased something positive has come from this thread! Seemed to get a bit negative there over the marketing and design of the unit!!! rightly in some regard. Nobody should be "duped" by marketing.

This review convinced me to have a punt on it : http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/jolida3/phono.html

I recommend definitely having listen to one if you can. It has surprised me. As i have already said, i had no expectation bias or any need really to expect anything as i bought it with learning in mind. They are ripe for mods if you get a stock version according to the review. Personally i expect that mods can only take it so far before the dimishing returns kick in. AudioKarma has 101 pages of information on it. I am hoping to swap the Polyester caps for polypropylene caps that perform the coupling on the opamp Circuit board then i will have a listen and see if i can hear a difference then i'll have a look for the next mod. Simple things like feet materials and which one is best. Those kind of things. Nothing boutique or stupid money. The goal is to learn from it. Anyone can buy anything that i widely regarded as "best in class" but i want to know what makes it the best in class. ( Not suggesting the Jolida is best in class BTW)

I like it and it has been very informative so far. Grey plates, Long plates, rippled plates are all new terms to me but i now know what they mean. It's paying off already.

As far as Cryo goes, Well, It may be foo but it is another interesting facet of the whole market isn't it. Someone told me to get better fuses as one of the first mods. I'm not getting into that argument lol!!!!

Oliver

[Bigman80]

Some "propaganda" or Information. Depending which side of the Foo you fall

DEEP CYROGENTIC TREATMENT The process involves taking the vacuum tubes and freezing them down to -312 f and soaking these for a minimum of 12 hours. Then the temp is held at this low level for 24 hours. The vacuum tubes are then slowly brought up to normal levels over the next 12 hours. Metals respond very well to deep cryogenic process. The reasons are as follows. During the cooling or solidification phase of the manufacturing process, molecules are trapped in a haphazard pattern. This is down to stress caused in the bending and welding of the anode plate material.. This random placement causes obstacles for electrons and when encountered this interference can cause noise, slow down electron flow and sound deteriation affecting the quality of the sound of the vacuum tube. At very cold temperatures (below -312°F), the molecules will align in a more uniform, compact structure through the removal of kinetic energy. When the material is returned to ambient temperature, this new uniform, compact pattern is maintained, Thus changing the structure of the nickel permanently. This process makes a permanent change and the benefits do not deteriorate over time or upon return to operating temperature, it changes the whole way the vacuum tube performs. The biggest benefits I have found has been a dramatic improvement in dymanic range. Bass response has been clearer with reduction in microphonics.

[alphaGT]

I agree, it sounds very official! And easy to believe, but hard to prove. I've yet to see a picture of these atomic structures they refer to. Of course proof is in the hearing. If you had two tubes made exactly the same, with the Cryogenics being the only difference, it would be worth buying both just to see what the difference amounts to. But the factory probably doesn't offer any for comparison.

I'm not going to poopoo on anyone's claims or beliefs! As far as I know it does make a wonderful difference! But a few things remain. One is that when you buy a product that claims cryogenics, how can you be sure it actually happened? I mentioned the Tice Clock, back in the late 80's there was this revolutionary new product on the market, (for those who don't remember), it was a standard Radio Shack alarm clock that claimed to have been cryogenically frozen, and all one needed to do was plug it into the same circuit in your listening room and it would somehow clean up your stereo sound! And there were literally hundreds of people who swore it worked! A reputable reviewer attempted to call their bluff, and asked to visit the factory where this freezing was taking place, Tice declined saying it was top secret and no one could see it. Within a year it was history and Tice was on to some other revolutionary product. That was the first time I ever heard of anything being frozen, and with the smell of fraud and bull crap all over it, I guess it gave the whole idea a black eye.

But now days lots of reputable products claim cryogenic freezing, id like to think they are actually doing the freezing. I've got a power cord for my big Krell that claims it was Cryogenic, but honestly I don't hear anything that any other quality power cord doesn't deliver. Even the factory cable from Krell sounds as good. But perhaps that's a poor example? Tubes may be a better purpose for freezing? The way electrons act in an electron tube is quite mysterious anyway, small things could have large effects! So I have not gone out of my way to prove it's all a hoax, so I can't really say it doesn't work. But, due to past experiences I will remain skeptical. .

As far as fuses go, I have not tried them for fear that I will hear a difference! Then what? Should I get an Indian Shaman to "cleans" my room? Exorcise by a Catholic Priest? I kid, anyone who loves their fuses, more power to ya.


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[alphaGT]

As far as the Jolida is concerned, as I was saying, I've seen many for sale used that others have already modified. Perhaps saving me the trouble? If they've done a good job. Previous to reading this post, I wanted one stock! But now I'm thinking perhaps modified is the way to go?


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[Bigman80]

As far as the Jolida is concerned, as I was saying, I've seen many for sale used that others have already modified. Perhaps saving me the trouble? If they've done a good job. Previous to reading this post, I wanted one stock! But now I'm thinking perhaps modified is the way to go?


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Well it seems no one keeps them stock for long. The first three mods generally accepted are Better valves, Copious damping and removing the metal valve protectors. I imagine if you find one with those done, the rest cam be done to your preference.

[Bigman80]

, anyone who loves their fuses, more power to ya.

Literally hahaha