View Full Version : Uneven sonics on "Electric Ladyland"
magiccarpetride
16-08-2017, 21:01
Jimi Hendrix is arguably the best electric guitar player ever recorded. And his double LP "Electric Ladyland" is the best argument one could put forward to support that claim.
I originally got introduced to this album on a CD format, and could not enjoy it -- the sound was too harsh, too trebly. I could hear that it contains the meanest guitar playing ever put on tape, but the glassy, shrill overall sound was more than I could absorb.
Finally, I managed to get me a nice clean original pressing, and now listening to it on vinyl, it finally shines the way it's supposed to :)
There is one thing that's still bothering me, though: the sonics appear very uneven. Some tracks are almost an audiophile heaven, while some other tracks sound amateurish and almost blurry. I guess this is due to the fact that different tracks were recorded on different continents, plus Jimi's legendary falling out with his manager etc. Too bad, because this is one of the most epic records in music history.
Light Dependant Resistor
16-08-2017, 22:16
A few corrections: Electric Ladyland was recorded entirely at the Record Plant West 44th Street in New York.
Jimi's inventive use of guitar was always progressing, so confining it to just this album is a bit sad. Rather
we can hear even better playing on later posthumos albums like Rainbow Bridge ( the re released Estate version )
which is not to say Electric Ladyland does not contain some stellar moments, which it does.
Due to Jimi's extremely inventive use of devices that included feedback across headphones to create the sound of gulls
and studio perfectionism, IMO you really need to hear it on CD.
The Authorised release by the Hendrix family is terrific and sounds excellent on a good audio system, even better one with a proper preamp.
Cheers / Chris
I was a bit young the first time around, but I've recently bought Electric Ladyland on 180g vinyl, and am quite happy with the recording. Of course we do have to take into consideration the year it was made, compared to other rock albums of its day it's very OK.
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I've always thought 'Landlady' was a bit self-indulgent compared to 'Are You Experienced' and 'Axis'. Rainbow Bridge = disappointing.
Live albums 'In The West' and 'The Jimi Hendrix Concerts' are my most usual plays though.
I've always thought 'Landlady' was a bit self-indulgent compared to 'Are You Experienced' and 'Axis'.
Same here, to the extent that I gave my copy away.
Now I've got to listen to it again, and see if I missed something? I will confess I am more likely to play Experienced or Axis. Growing up my older sister had the Best Of album, all the Hendrix I ever had until I was 50 years old and these remakes came out.
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Bigman80
17-08-2017, 12:48
I know a guy who played with Hendrix when he was in the UK. (He owns my local guitar shop) I spoke to him at length about this very subject a few years ago. His take on it was that they just couldn't find the best way to record him. Some tracks were easier than other and often sounded better but often he'd change the volume of his guitar during a track (as he did live) to attain certain sounds like dive bombs and it would throw the whole recording into a EQ nightmare. The second problem was, he just wasnt that "big" at the tine which also meant he didn't get the amount of attention to detail on his record mixes as say the Beatles or the stones.
That's his take. Sounds like he's right to me.
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RothwellAudio
17-08-2017, 13:40
Jimi Hendrix is arguably the best electric guitar player ever recorded...
Certainly, that's an argument that could be had, but it seems way too simplistic an argument in my opinion. I'm sure the power and excitement of his playing were astonishing to audiences at the time but "best electric guitar player"? For example, Charlie Christian, Joe Pass etc. played electric guitar too, but how could you make meaningful comparisons when the musical styles were so far apart?
Personally, I've long-since abandoned any ideas about who is "the best" at anything musical. There's stuff I like and stuff I don't. I leave ideas about being "the best" to those blokes (and women) running round tracks and throwing things. A stop-watch or a tape measure easily proves who's best in those areas of endeavour.
Certainly, that's an argument that could be had, but it seems way too simplistic an argument in my opinion. I'm sure the power and excitement of his playing were astonishing to audiences at the time but "best electric guitar player"? For example, Charlie Christian, Joe Pass etc. played electric guitar too, but how could you make meaningful comparisons when the musical styles were so far apart?
Personally, I've long-since abandoned any ideas about who is "the best" at anything musical. There's stuff I like and stuff I don't. I leave ideas about being "the best" to those blokes (and women) running round tracks and throwing things. A stop-watch or a tape measure easily proves who's best in those areas of endeavour.
Though, as with music, much depends on the quantity and quality of drugs they've consumed.
RothwellAudio
17-08-2017, 13:58
Oh yes - I hadn't considered that parallel :lol:
Werner Berghofer
17-08-2017, 15:24
Alex,
I could hear that it contains the meanest guitar playing ever put on tape […]maybe, but I can’t really comment on this, since ”ever“ is not over yet. If you’re in the mood for really mean things I suggest visiting your dominatrix instead.
Werner.
There's never, ever going to be anyone better than Hendrix. I think it is safe to say that. None of his peers even came close, no-one in the 40 years since has come close and as for contemporary musicians....forget it. They're not even as good as Clapton.
Light Dependant Resistor
17-08-2017, 16:06
I know a guy who played with Hendrix when he was in the UK. (He owns my local guitar shop) I spoke to him at length about this very subject a few years ago. His take on it was that they just couldn't find the best way to record him. Some tracks were easier than other and often sounded better but often he'd change the volume of his guitar during a track (as he did live) to attain certain sounds like dive bombs and it would throw the whole recording into a EQ nightmare. The second problem was, he just wasnt that "big" at the tine which also meant he didn't get the amount of attention to detail on his record mixes as say the Beatles or the stones.
That's his take. Sounds like he's right to me.
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Eddie Kramer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Kramer was the main engineer for Hendrix,
and also collaborated with The Beatles and the Rolling Stones.
Many AOS members would know "Whole Lotta love" from Led Zeppelin 2 .. also Eddie Kramer.
Some footage of him is seen as I recall in the Woodstock movie, as he was also engineer there.
Basically Eddie Kramer was a great choice for Hendrix, as he had the patience for things like 50 takes
on Gypsy eyes from Electric Ladyland, and knew his stuff when recording.
And a quote from Wikipedia ( same link above ) about Hendrix in the recording studio
"Kramer recalls Hendrix as extremely disciplined in the studio, with his objectives thoroughly pre-planned. To some extent this was a result of working with results-oriented manager and early producer Chas Chandler, who brought Hendrix to England in September 1966, where he established his fame before returning to the United States. Hendrix envisioned the tonal spectrum as a palette of colors, often instructing Kramer with color-based commands. "Make it sound green," for example, was satisfied by adding reverb.[8]
"Jimi utilized the studio as a rehearsal space", thank God he did." Kramer described Hendrix as "very sharp, very focused, very funny, very shy, totally dedicated to his music and his art. He was such a complete human being with such far-reaching intellect."[5] Kramer places Hendrix among Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, and Louis Armstrong. "He really is in that league, because his individuality was so strong and his message was so strong and his mastery of his instrument was so complete. He was a maverick. He broke a lot of barriers, musically and in every way."[9] "Tastes and sounds may change", echoes Chris Talbott of Associated Press, "but Hendrix always remains close at hand".
Bigman80
17-08-2017, 16:10
Eddie Kramer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Kramer was the main engineer for Hendrix,
and also collaborated with The Beatles and the Rolling Stones.
Many AOS members would know "Whole Lotta love" from Led Zeppelin 2 .. also Eddie Kramer.
Some footage of him is seen as I recall in the Woodstock movie, as he was also engineer there.
Basically Eddie Kramer was a great choice for Hendrixm as he had the patience for things like 50 takes
on Gypsy eyes from Electric Ladyland, and knew his stuff when recording.Well,that's what he said, rightly or wrongly. Personally I've always felt the Hendrix LPs weren't the best recordings. The remastered versions are a lot better. IMO of course.
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He was a great all round musician; that's what he excelled at. could do everything well, and some of it the best, but because he could do it all among the very best he was the top man. His lead guitar work was maybe his weakest point actually (imo). Writer, arranger, producer, probably hard to better him to this day. Surprisingly his rhythm guitar was maybe what he was best at when he wanted to do it.
Still, although not so far up my list as he once was I still class him a musical God.personally I prefer Beck and as a lead he is imo the top man.(although he doe have off days)
No flinging bricks please;)
I've never thought any of the original Hendrix LPs were that well recorded. Of those I prefer 'Axis ... ' over the others, but my favourite (on CD) is 'Blue'. And for live recordings, by far my favourite is a recording made of his appearance at the London Royal Albert Hall and released as a "freebie" by the Sunday Times. The atmosphere and sheer virtuosity of his guitar playing is amazing - I wish I had been there!
As to who is the best guitarist ever? Well that's as pointless and unanswerable a question as asking who is the greatest drummer, bassist, pianist, violinist, cellist, saxophonist, trumpet player, ...... .
magiccarpetride
17-08-2017, 17:00
Alex,
maybe, but I can’t really comment on this, since ”ever“ is not over yet. If you’re in the mood for really mean things I suggest visiting your dominatrix instead.
Werner.
She plays guitar? How do you know that?
Hendrix wasn't a guitar player. He was the guitar. And the guitar was him.
A few players have got close to his fluency, I don't think anyone has equalled him. Not just for the skill of the playing but for his innovation. All the greats could innovate.
Grant a lump of concrete coming your way (no bricks to hand) :)
magiccarpetride
17-08-2017, 17:04
A few corrections: Electric Ladyland was recorded entirely at the Record Plant West 44th Street in New York.
Jimi's inventive use of guitar was always progressing, so confining it to just this album is a bit sad. Rather
we can hear even better playing on later posthumos albums like Rainbow Bridge ( the re released Estate version )
which is not to say Electric Ladyland does not contain some stellar moments, which it does.
Due to Jimi's extremely inventive use of devices that included feedback across headphones to create the sound of gulls
and studio perfectionism, IMO you really need to hear it on CD.
The Authorised release by the Hendrix family is terrific and sounds excellent on a good audio system, even better one with a proper preamp.
Cheers / Chris
My digital front end is not that good, hence, as I explained in the original post, I could not bear listening to Ladyland on the CD.
magiccarpetride
17-08-2017, 17:07
Hendrix wasn't a guitar player. He was the guitar. And the guitar was him.
A few players have got close to his fluency, I don't think anyone has equalled him. Not just for the skill of the playing but for his innovation. All the greats could innovate.
Grant a lump of concrete coming your way (no bricks to hand) :)
At first I didn't realize the truth of Jimi's greatness. I used to think that Jimi is yet another member of the large pantheon of guitar gods.
But then one day I was listening to Steve Ray Vaughan doing a Hendrix cover, and I was amazed at Stevie's prowess and musicianship. Then, immediately after that, I put Jimi on, and my god, he made Stevie Ray Vaughan sound like a midget. SRV all of a sudden turned into this square, pedestrian guitar player wannabe. Sound unbelievable to even say that, but such is the magical power of Jimi Hendrix's playing!
Light Dependant Resistor
17-08-2017, 17:09
I've never thought any of the original Hendrix LPs were that well recorded. Of those I prefer 'Axis ... ' over the others, but my favourite (on CD) is 'Blue'. And for live recordings, by far my favourite is a recording made of his appearance at the London Royal Albert Hall and released as a "freebie" by the Sunday Times. The atmosphere and sheer virtuosity of his guitar playing is amazing - I wish I had been there!
As to who is the best guitarist ever? Well that's as pointless and unanswerable a question as asking who is the greatest drummer, bassist, pianist, violinist, cellist, saxophonist, trumpet player, ...... .
Live at the Albert hall is a subject to itself as there is still legal argument ongoing in 2017 some 48 years later
https://www.courthousenews.com/jimi-hendrix-film-will-stay-wraps-now/
But the shorter story is there were two recordings done. The album "In the West" ( Polydor) track Voodoo Chile and Little Wing is from the better recording done at Albert Hall, not to be confused with the Hendrix Estate version of "In the West" which presents these same songs from instead San Diego Sports arena. The other recordings released from Albert Hall were from a second lesser quality recording done. The "Concerts" recording of Stone free also is from this lesser quality recording, despite its essential listening - mind blowing good playing by Jimi Mitch and Noel
magiccarpetride
17-08-2017, 17:09
I've always thought 'Landlady' was a bit self-indulgent compared to 'Are You Experienced' and 'Axis'. Rainbow Bridge = disappointing.
Live albums 'In The West' and 'The Jimi Hendrix Concerts' are my most usual plays though.
The only thing I don't like about Ladyland is side B. For some reason, does not match the majesty of the other three sides.
magiccarpetride
17-08-2017, 17:11
I know a guy who played with Hendrix when he was in the UK. (He owns my local guitar shop) I spoke to him at length about this very subject a few years ago. His take on it was that they just couldn't find the best way to record him. Some tracks were easier than other and often sounded better but often he'd change the volume of his guitar during a track (as he did live) to attain certain sounds like dive bombs and it would throw the whole recording into a EQ nightmare. The second problem was, he just wasnt that "big" at the tine which also meant he didn't get the amount of attention to detail on his record mixes as say the Beatles or the stones.
That's his take. Sounds like he's right to me.
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Those brutal volume swells have actually been excellently captured on the double LP. The dynamics on that record are insane, and that's part of the listening magic.
Where some tracks fall short is in the lack of clarity when there are a lot of overlaying and overdubs -- the sound sometimes turns into mud.
magiccarpetride
17-08-2017, 17:14
Certainly, that's an argument that could be had, but it seems way too simplistic an argument in my opinion. I'm sure the power and excitement of his playing were astonishing to audiences at the time but "best electric guitar player"? For example, Charlie Christian, Joe Pass etc. played electric guitar too, but how could you make meaningful comparisons when the musical styles were so far apart?
Personally, I've long-since abandoned any ideas about who is "the best" at anything musical. There's stuff I like and stuff I don't. I leave ideas about being "the best" to those blokes (and women) running round tracks and throwing things. A stop-watch or a tape measure easily proves who's best in those areas of endeavour.
Good points. I would now like to revise my statement and say that arguably Hendrix is better than any guitar player I've ever heard. That's not saying he's the best, just that he's better than anyone else.
As for genres, you're right; I will revise my statement once again and say that Hendrix is better than any other electric rock guitar player. How's that?
]Hendrix wasn't a guitar player. He was the guitar.[/B] And the guitar was him.
A few players have got close to his fluency, I don't think anyone has equalled him. Not just for the skill of the playing but for his innovation. All the greats could innovate.
Grant a lump of concrete coming your way (no bricks to hand) :)
bollocks ;)
magiccarpetride
17-08-2017, 17:16
He was a great all round musician; that's what he excelled at. could do everything well, and some of it the best, but because he could do it all among the very best he was the top man. His lead guitar work was maybe his weakest point actually (imo). Writer, arranger, producer, probably hard to better him to this day. Surprisingly his rhythm guitar was maybe what he was best at when he wanted to do it.
Still, although not so far up my list as he once was I still class him a musical God.personally I prefer Beck and as a lead he is imo the top man.(although he doe have off days)
No flinging bricks please;)
Jeff Beck is an acquired taste. I personally cannot stand his slinky, slippery playing. Makes me nauseous. But now we're getting into the personal tastes territory, where arguing is pointless.
Jeff Beck is an acquired taste. I personally cannot stand his slinky, slippery playing. Makes me nauseous. But now we're getting into the personal tastes territory, where arguing is pointless.
Sort of agree about JB even though I've got a fair few of his records. But he's doing a completely different shtick to Hendrix. More technical and planned out whilst Hendrix played from the gut.
Light Dependant Resistor
17-08-2017, 17:28
bollocks ;)
Hendrix or the concrete?:)
magiccarpetride
17-08-2017, 17:30
Sort of agree about JB even though I've got a fair few of his records. But he's doing a completely different shtick to Hendrix. More technical and planned out whilst Hendrix played from the gut.
Hendrix transcended electric guitar. That's what separates him from any other electric guitar player I've ever heard. All other players sound completely boxed-in when compared to Hendrix. Even amazing guys and guitar innovators like Allan Holdsworth and John McLaughlin could never get to even 1% of Hendrix's magic.
Bigman80
17-08-2017, 17:42
Hendrix didn't play guitar like anyone else. This is equally true in terms of the technique he used. He played almost exclusively with open chords with altering fingering arrangements. His technique gave him the ability for additional hammer-ons and pull-off in chords which gave him endless possibilities. I play guitar, I'm very good, I know how Hendrix played but yet there is a dimension in which I just cannot compete. I play Beck, Clapton etc with aplomb but Hendrix wasn't standard. Say what you will, to me, he is the greatest of all time.
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Was one of the first to chord using his thumb too
Stratmangler
17-08-2017, 18:19
Was one of the first to chord using his thumb too
Chet Atkins was doing that kind of thing from the 1940s
Charlie Christian used the technique too
Yup but it wasn't a regular thing til jimi did it. He was quite an innovator. Liked to play reverse chords too.
As I said I think he was a magic musician but he is not high up in my listening list An acquired taste
magiccarpetride
17-08-2017, 18:56
Hendrix didn't play guitar like anyone else. This is equally true in terms of the technique he used. He played almost exclusively with open chords with altering fingering arrangements. His technique gave him the ability for additional hammer-ons and pull-off in chords which gave him endless possibilities. I play guitar, I'm very good, I know how Hendrix played but yet there is a dimension in which I just cannot compete. I play Beck, Clapton etc with aplomb but Hendrix wasn't standard. Say what you will, to me, he is the greatest of all time.
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It is impossible to emulate Hendrix. Many have tried, but all have failed.
I am a guitar player, but I know better, so I never ever try to emulate Hendrix. I'd much rather forge my own, pathetic little style of playing.
Bigman80
17-08-2017, 18:57
It is impossible to emulate Hendrix. Many have tried, but all have failed.
I am a guitar player, but I know better, so I never ever try to emulate Hendrix. I'd much rather forge my own, pathetic little style of playing.Hahaha, yep. Join the club hahaha.
I think all guitar players know better. Except SRV!!
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Rory Gallagher for me... even Hendrix himself agreed
Hendrix influenced armies of disciples of guitar players. One of my favorites was Robin Trower. Often accused of being a Hendrix clone, I don't see that at all. Trower picked up where Jimi left off, influenced by him? Definitely, copying him, not at all. Trower was one who spoke through the guitar, made it cry and sing. SRV, had many recordings of him playing Hendrix songs, some Better than others. I've heard some of his Voodoo Child that would nearly fool you. And I saw Kenny Wayne Shepard live in Richmond VA. And he played Voodoo Child, and was super awesome! I could hear Hendrix between the lines. Having never had the chance to see Hendrix live, it was the next best thing. But I think when people say he's the best ever, it's impossible to not take into account that he was the first. He changed guitar forever, nothing was ever the same after him. There are many great guitarists in this world now and gone, so hard to label anyone as best. But I do feel that Neil Pert is the best drummer ever! Maybe not the best, but no one is better!
One of the reasons why Jimi is so hard to emulate on guitar, is because he held a right handed guitar upside down and played left handed. So, you'd have to do the same to get the exact same fingerings as he used. I saw a YouTube video showing the difference, most revealing.
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Oddly one of the best blues guitarists did same. One of the 3 kings
magiccarpetride
18-08-2017, 16:23
Oddly one of the best blues guitarists did same. One of the 3 kings
Flooring the note!
no, played a right handed guitar upside down left handed. Albert King. big fan of his and the other 2 for that matter. Buddy Guy too.
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