What would you never buy again? What would you like to own again?

[walpurgis]

Most of us here will have been through a quantity of Hi-Fi equipment. What is there that you moved on and thought, 'thank gawd that's gone' and what nice item did you sell and knew you should have kept?


Here's a few of mine.


Stuff I didn't get on with:

Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk.II speakers, highly regarded, but I just could not get them sounding quite right in my system.

The several Cambridge A60 and NAD 3020 integrated amps that came my way. Despite their enthusiastic following, I just found them dull and thick.

B&W speakers. I've owned a few older models and have heard many others, but B&W just don't 'click' with me.

Rega RB250 and RB300 tonearms. I just don't like the sound.


Items I should have kept:

All my Leak Stereo 20 power amps. They are gems that just make music.

Meridian 206 CD player. Again, it just makes music.

Tannoy Eaton speakers. A true classic dual concentric Tannoy in a manageable box. Had five pairs and still miss them.

Cartridges, Decca 4RC, Ortofon SPU and Technics EPC-305MC, they were superb!

A Trio KA-2000a amp. Dinky, unassuming little unit from the early seventies that sounds as good as a Sugden A21a.




I dare say I could add more.

[struth]

only thing comes to ind is the MF A1000 I would def have again. top amp.

agin... well I wouldnt have the mission 782 floorstander again.. Good sounding speaker but more trouble than worth..

edit.. thought of another no... a whest phono...

[reubensheldon]

I've made quiet a few sideway steps along the way, hence the kit that has made the biggest improvements are the ones that have stuck with me. The ones that I'd have again are, Magnum K speakers. Got them for my 18th birthday. I'm sure they'd sound awful by today's standards, but at the time i loved and would like to hear what they sound like. The original kef 105's. Ugly, not exactly accurate but great fun. But the ones I really miss are pro-ac response 4. Great with any sort of music but unfortunately I had to move and they just didn't fit into the new room. Amps wise I got an amazing deal on advantage pre-amp and mono blocks. Maybe a bit warm sound for some, but with the pro-acs you could listen for hours without fatigue. Unfortunately they went bang due to a leak from the flat upstairs and I couldn't get them repaired. This leads me to items I wouldn't buy again. Celestion A3 speakers. Lots of great reviews, but I couldn't get them to sound right. Aura pa200 amps. Spent more time getting them repaired than listening to them. One of the original Cambridge dac magic's. Can't remember the exact one, but impossible to listen to music quietly because of the amount of buzzing the power supply made. Cambridge Azur dac/pre. No where near as good as the reviews IMHO and poor build quality. Audionet CD player - decent sound, but two expensive trips to be repaired and still went bang again.

[fatmarley]

Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk.II speakers, highly regarded, but I just could not get them sounding quite right in my system.


Out of all the gear I've owned, those were the worst. Just found I didn't enjoy music through them.

[Macca]

Would not buy again: Cambridge Azur 840c cd player. Paid top whack brand new. Tried to like it but couldn't. Expensive mistake.

Should not have sold (much bigger list)

Denon PMA250 UK SE with the phono stage
Celestion A2 speakers - really suited my room
Kenwood -something or other- linear tracking turntable. Lovely bit of kit with the honeycomb aerolam chassis.
A brace of TEAC integrated amps, forget the models but big buggers in a sort of hammerite finish. Got them from a dance hall that had closed down. Needed the money at the time.
My first system: Fisher Studio sound amp and ST70 speakers, Tensai turntable. Would be good to still have it as a measure of how far I've come. Plus nostalgia.

[Pharos]

Restriction on funds has precluded much 'sideways shifting', and I have moved upwards in big jumps until I sold my ESS Monitors, and went through 4 pairs of ATCs searching for that transparency the Heil had.

A big error of path judgement which cost me a lot of money over 11 years, ATCs may be more accurate, but IMO they were not very transparent then.

Now with ESSs again, attempts at rebuild, design changes to increase their accuracy, and realising the limitations of my resources and education, I will sell them, having bought ADAMs which to me are more transparent, and also very accurate and revealing.

My Mother used to think that this obsession/interest was madness, but I'm sure that if I could compare my 1972 system with what I have now, there would be a world of difference. But what happened then was in youth, and an exciting fresh insight relative to previous exposure, and we are now getting very close to the asymptote I think.

[walpurgis]

Hmm. Bit like me. I've tried many speakers, but always end up going back to Tannoys. To me, everything else I've tried has just not sounded quite 'right'!

[Spectral Morn]

I keep most of my kit but...

I would buy again

Voyd Valdi - I should never have sold it.

Eminent Technology ET2 air bearing arm. I should never have sold it and I would have another in a heart beat. I was a total idiot selling that :doh::doh::doh::doh:

T&A V10 sold it and I think I didn't give it a good enough go.

Audio Innovations Series 1000 mk3 power amps :doh: I was an idiot selling these.

What I would not want back

Pathos Logos MK1 Too syrupy, warm and bass bloated.

Unison Research Unico - underwhelming.

[southall-1998]

Buy again.

Sony CDP-X777ES.
Linn Karik III.
Grado SR80/325.
Rega Apollo-R.
Neat Petite III.
Acoustic Energy AE1.
Naim CD3.5.
Audio Analogue Puccini SE.
Leak Stereo 20.
Quad 303/405.
Townshend Elite Rock.
Sonneteer Campion.
Audio Innovation Series 500.
Audio Note Meishu.
Audio Note AN-J.
TDL Reference Monitors.
Sugden A21a.
Musical Fidelity A1.


Feck off's.

Naim CDX.
Arcam CD7SE.
Graham Slee Novo Headphone amp.
Naim Nait 1.
All NVA stuff. Their speakers are absolutely shit to my ears.
Musical Fidelity X-Can V2.
All the Royd Speakers......Vile!!

If I can think of anymore, will post.

S.

[walpurgis]

I should have added the Fidelity Research MC-201 cartridge to my 'wish I'd kept' list. That was a real sweetie! :) (had a couple of them)

[Arkless Electronics]

Buy again.

Sony CDP-X777ES.
Linn Karik III.
Grado SR80/325.
Rega Apollo-R.
Neat Petite III.
Acoustic Energy AE1.
Naim CD3.5.
Audio Analogue Puccini SE.
Leak Stereo 20.
Quad 303/405.
Townshend Elite Rock.
Sonneteer Campion.
Audio Innovation Series 500.
Audio Note Meishu.
Audio Note AN-J.
TDL Reference Monitors.
Sugden A21a.
Musical Fidelity A1.


Feck off's.

Naim CDX.
Arcam CD7SE.
Graham Slee Novo Headphone amp.
Naim Nait 1.
All NVA stuff. Their speakers are absolutely shit to my ears.
Musical Fidelity X-Can V2.
All the Royd Speakers......Vile!!

If I can think of anymore, will post.

S.

Slightly off topic but what happened to that original early '70's Sugden A21 you bought from me? I don't recall you ever mentioning having put it to use...

[Arkless Electronics]

Most of us here will have been through a quantity of Hi-Fi equipment. What is there that you moved on and thought, 'thank gawd that's gone' and what nice item did you sell and knew you should have kept?


Here's a few of mine.


Stuff I didn't get on with:

Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk.II speakers, highly regarded, but I just could not get them sounding quite right in my system.

The several Cambridge A60 and NAD 3020 integrated amps that came my way. Despite their enthusiastic following, I just found them dull and thick.

B&W speakers. I've owned a few older models and have heard many others, but B&W just don't 'click' with me.

Rega RB250 and RB300 tonearms. I just don't like the sound.


Items I should have kept:

All my Leak Stereo 20 power amps. They are gems that just make music.

Meridian 206 CD player. Again, it just makes music.

Tannoy Eaton speakers. A true classic dual concentric Tannoy in a manageable box. Had five pairs and still miss them.

Cartridges, Decca 4RC, Ortofon SPU and Technics EPC-305MC, they were superb!

A Trio KA-2000a amp. Dinky, unassuming little unit from the early seventies that sounds as good as a Sugden A21a.




I dare say I could add more.

+1

[Firebottle]

... are more transparent, and also very accurate and revealing.

Dennis, if you want transparency you ought to buy the Quad electrostatics that are up for sale on here.
If you haven't got the room then make it.

The ESL57's are the one item I will never give up.

[walpurgis]

Dennis, if you want transparency you ought to buy the Quad electrostatics that are up for sale on here.
If you haven't got the room then make it.

I agree. They are probably the most revealing and transparent speaker ever made. And by revealing I don't mean bright, I mean you can actually hear more of everything than is normally experienced.

[southall-1998]

Slightly off topic but what happened to that original early '70's Sugden A21 you bought from me? I don't recall you ever mentioning having put it to use...


I used the A21 for a couple months with AN-J speakers. Sold it last winter to raise money for something else.

S.

[Scooby]

Good thread this! Making me nostalgic. Isobariks probs top of my "would have" list. The "wouldn't" list would likely fill a phone book.

[Arkless Electronics]

Good thread this! Making me nostalgic. Isobariks probs top of my "would have" list. The "wouldn't" list would likely fill a phone book.

Hmm.. they would top my "wouldn't touch it with a bargepole" list along with early Linn amplifiers.. We're all different I guess...

[Scooby]

Hmm.. they would top my "wouldn't touch it with a bargepole" list along with early Linn amplifiers.. We're all different I guess...

Id be the first to recognise that in some respects they could be seen as awful. In others, I just find them enthralling. Plus I love the look of them.

LP12 would probably be on my "wouldn't have" list though. I've enjoyed many other decks more.

[Beobloke]

I wouldn't touch a Connoisseur BD1 with a barge pole. I only bought the second one I owned because I couldn't believe the first one was so bad. Sadly the second was no different.

As to stuff I'd have again, there isn't a huge amount, as if it's that good, I've still got it. I have bought second examples of the Technics SL-P1200 and RS-9900 as I shouldn't have sold the first ones!

That said, I wish I hadn't sold my uncle's EMI EPU-100 arm and pickup heads. That was a silly decision.

[Arkless Electronics]

The only thing I've REALLY regretted selling was my Leak Stereo 20.... Luckily the same friend who gave me the first one gave me a "build yourself a good Stereo 20 out of these two" gift several years later. I'd never part with it.

[Dauntless]

One big expensive mistake I made was trading in a Logic DM101 with an FR arm for a Linn LP12,Ittok,Asak. Sold the Linn and replaced it with a Townsend Rock Ref which was far more accurate to my ears. I've never regretted selling anything in HiFi I have to say. I have paid good money for gear I've not got on with in the long run. Shahinian Compass speakers come to mind and AE 2's with their foam surrounds that rot in no time are others. Amps I have owned but not enjoyed include Nytech 252 Receiver and Linn Clout power amp.

[Arkless Electronics]

Logic DM101 is a great TT. A mate has used one with a Mission 774 on it for decades and never felt the need to change it... and nor would I.

[jandl100]

... I only bought the second one I owned because I couldn't believe the first one was so bad. Sadly the second was no different.


Ha! :D -- I did that exact same thing with AKG 701 headphones. Great reviews - I must have had a duff pair. Couldn't stand them 2nd time 'round either.

Very few out & out "Thank gawd that's gone" disasters, but these would qualify ....

Klipsch Heresy speakers. My goodness. Heresy, indeed! :doh:
Horning Zeus small floorstander speakers. Unspeakably coloured.
Linn Unidisk universal digital disc spinner. Boppy and light and insubstantial. Truly unmusical.
ProAc Future Point 5 speakers. Wow, this fine firm took a wrong turning on this top of the line series!

I wish I could say Tannoys - but I've never been daft enough to own any. :lol:

--

I've never regretted selling anything that I can think of -- onwards, ever onwards!

[southall-1998]

The K701's I have sound very open and lucid. They have a reputation for having very lean tight bass.

S.

[dantheman91]

I've never regretted what i have sold....but im sure my dad has so here goes

Pye Mozart X2 - came at separate times
Pye HF10
Tannoy Cheviot - X3 i know he's had
Tannoy Berkeley
Tannoy IILZ
Leak Stereo 20 ,
SME 3012
Goldring G88 X2
Quad II's -
Garrard 301 - Hadcock Tonearm
Thorens TD124 MKII - SME 3009
Wharfedale Dovedale's
Quad ESL 57's including the ones he was given by movement audio in the early 00's i remember them..:)
Leak TL12 + Boxed he got from the Millhams tip ...:eek:
Rogers Cadet 2 Power , Pre & Matching Tuner - Bought from Poole tip sold to a friend for £50 he's always regretted this too the friend recently sold it and went for nearly £450...


Plus a lot more i will have to ask....Including Various other Tannoys , Quad , Leak ,

[Pharos]

I have never really liked the quads because of the need to place them out in the room, and the bass compromise, and it is one of my absolute needs that they go against the wall. I don't really like B&W stuff much either.

Very interesting the wide disparity of taste, given that we and the equipment all have the same objective.

[Barry]

I have never really liked the quads because of the need to place them out in the room, and the bass compromise, and it is one of my absolute needs that they go against the wall. I don't really like B&W stuff much either.

Very interesting the wide disparity of taste, given that we and the equipment all have the same objective.

Not surprising, as none of it is perfect.

I adore my Quad 57s. Had them for over forty years and have absolutely no intention of changing them. I also like my B&W DM2As (picked up for £50), but can't really comment on their absolute sound quality as they are only used for AV duties.



Regrets:

Not buying a Leak Stereo 20 for £25.

Selling my Revox G36 (aka 736) reel-to-reel machine that I had bought previously for £25.

Not buying a Studer C37 reel-to-reel machine in excellent condition, complete with level meters for £800.

Not buying a Decca 'Professional' arm with Decca Mk. III head.

Missing out on the sale of a Transfiguration 'Orpheus' cartridge.

Missing out on the sale of a mint, unused Decca SC4E cartridge.


What would I never buy again?

Decca London 'International' arm. Very poorly made; never got round to fitting it and sold it on for a profit.


That's all I can think of. Most of my gear has been very good and I have not regretted buying any of it. If I have sold some of it on, it was because it has been superceeded by, IMO, better gear.

[Barry]

Most of us here will have been through a quantity of Hi-Fi equipment. What is there that you moved on and thought, 'thank gawd that's gone' and what nice item did you sell and knew you should have kept?

..........

Items I should have kept:

All my Leak Stereo 20 power amps. They are gems that just make music.

Meridian 206 CD player. Again, it just makes music.

Tannoy Eaton speakers. A true classic dual concentric Tannoy in a manageable box. Had five pairs and still miss them.

Cartridges, Decca 4RC, Ortofon SPU and Technics EPC-305MC, they were superb!

A Trio KA-2000a amp. Dinky, unassuming little unit from the early seventies that sounds as good as a Sugden A21a.


I dare say I could add more.

:eek: And an FR 201 as well!

[Ian7633]

Strangely I wish I'd not sold my first pair of Naim SBL's. I remember them as sounding lovely so I bought another pair this year and although I tried my best with them they just sounded horrid so would love to know if my first ones were as good as I remember. Also my first Toshiba SR-370, wouldn't have wasted so much money before buying another.

Wouldn't have another LP12, quite like the sound but hate all the Linn nonsense.

Slightly off topic my biggest regret was selling my Rickenbacker 4001 bass guitar with Kent Armstrong modified pick-ups. The best bass I've ever played. Why o why did I part with it :doh:

[southall-1998]

Some more.

Buy again.

Sennheiser HD600.
Audio Note Oto.
Naim Nait 5i.
Exposure 2010S Integrated.
Mission 752 Freedom.
Shanling CDT-100.
Modded Sony PS1.


Feck off's.

Audio Note AZ-Two.
Rega Ela.
CMoy Headphone amp.
Creek Headphone amp.
Roksan Kandy CD Player.
Icon Audio Stereo 20PP.
Naim CD5XS.
Naim NAC A5.
Sugden Masterclass HA-4.
Audio Note ISIS Mains Lead.....Didn't improve my tea/coffee.
Tannoy System 600/800.
Lowther speakers.

S.

[Audio Al]

A wedding ring ;)

[Pharos]

I liked the SBLs quite a lot.

Is that a + or - for the wedding ring?

[Yomanze]

The Little Dot CD Transport showed me that transports really do make a difference, and this one was so bad & slow to operate discs that I went back to using cheap, better sounding DVD players as transports.

I would never buy a passive line stage for my amps again, they like active ones, and to be honest, I've always preferred getting my system balance right with an active in the mix (sorry Jez).

To own again, maybe my STAX rig or Grado RS1 headphone setups, but I just didn't use them enough to justify it.

[struth]

A wedding ring ;)

Always wondered why you dont get a divorce ring :eyebrows:

[Scooby]

Always wondered why you dont get a divorce ring :eyebrows:

Cos you've got no money left to buy one :)

[hifinutt]

buy again
mfa copper mark 2
mfa baby ref
arc ref 5se
belles mb100
dynaudio 72se
dynaudio 52se
martin logan summit x
verity audio Rienzi

never buy again
Valhalla mains leads!

[Michael loves music]

I regret having a Nad 3020e amp for 30 years I didn't know what I was missing until Geoff recommended a Denon 350SE I now have two of them ! The sound stage is wide open so much more musical I know the Nad won countless awards etc but the Denon really is so much better and very well made indeed

[farflungstar]

I'd have my KEF R107's back in a heartbeat.

[Joe]

Never buy again: Sugden Masterclass integrated amp. It was a major downgrade, and I very soon got shot of it.

Own again: Difficult to say, really. I know why I sold the things I did. Maybe my Music First passive pre, and buy a Quad 405 to go with it. That pairing sounded magical at the Bristol hifi show.

[cre009]

I don't sell on my gear but am also not into box swapping other than turntables/phono stages which I accumulate. My house was burgled in the mid 90s and they got all my main boxes but did not take my LP12 or TT2 tables and HB1 speakers. I replaced the main boxes on a like for like basis and am still using them today. The lesser kit that went out the door included an Exposure X amp which I don't miss but it wasn't bad.

I did trade in an Ittok for an Ekos which I regretted for a long time because I would have liked to try it on a couple of other tables including the TT2 but now have a Zeta on it and the regret has gone.

[walpurgis]

I should have added to my list.

Never again: Lowther speakers!

Definitely buy again: Mission 774 tonearm.

[Frazeur1]

Lets see here...a divorce about 13 years ago had me sell off all of a few systems and bits and pieces I had accumulated over quite a bit of time:

Naim:
CDS2
Nat-02
Nac-82
Supercap
Snaxo-2/4
Hi-Cap
Nap-250 X 2
Active SBL's
Naim ARO

Dynavector 17D
Linn LP-12/Valhalla

Pass Labs X-1 preamp
Pass Labs X150 amp
Wadia 302 CD player

Modified Magnepan MMG's
REL T-3 subs X 2

ATC CA-2 preamp
ATC SCM7
ATC SCM 20-2A

I liked it all for various reasons, yet I wouldn't have the active Naim system back, maybe a few bits and pieces of it, but that is it. The rest I would take back in a New York minute, especially the Pass Labs and Wadia gear.

Needless to say, my bank account has never fully recovered, but I am a happier man. And I really do love the gear I have now, so no complaints!

[Frazeur1]

I should add another bit of gear I had back in the early 80's that was just meh...But I strike it up to being heavily and easily persuaded at the time by dealer...

Carver C-4000 control console/preamp
Carver C-500 power amp

The power amp was the better piece of the two, to my ears as time would go, neither was stellar. Fun, but nothing special in the sonics department.

[p147]

Never buy again :- All my A/V gear wish I had stuck with 2 channel.
What would I like to own again:- Had a truly stunning Beard P50 power amp (lovely KT88 valves), and partnered with Beard P500 pre-amp, I believe all silver soldered. sold those to be one of the first buyer of the Beard BB100 integrated which was finished in gold and was truly a bling thing with the cage off and the valves alight, and finally my turntable which was an Oracle Audio Delphi VI Turntable adapted to take an SME series V Tonearm.
All of which I would love to own again.

[Neil McCauley]

Interesting post. We did a quick poll in the office and this is what we came up with.

Neil


Regret selling, in no particular order:



Meridian 107 power amp
Beard P100 mono power amps
Beveridge RM1 preamp
Pink Triangle with Breuer 8 Dynamic tonearm and EMT cartridge
Lecson HL1 horn speakers
Spendor BC3 speakers
Dynavector cartridges
Dynavector DV505 II tonearm
A stacked pair of JBL Century 100 speakers
Any Colin Wonfor-designed electronics
LFD Dac3
LFD PA3 mono power amps
JBE deck with the Dynavector DV505 II tonearm
Lentek transmission monitors (The Bert Webb era)
An original A&R A60


Happy to never see again


Anything by Nytech ie their early stuff
Tresham power amp
Hadcock original tone arm
Naim active speakers; probably their first attempt
Linn Sara speakers

[Macca]

Stacked JBL L100s? That must have ben fun.

[Neil McCauley]

Stacked JBL L100s? That must have ben fun.

Well yes, in terms of visceral thrill they were astonishing. However ... in terms of some audiophile aspirations such as depth of image, width of image, ability to provide detail at low volumes and so on, they were near hopeless. But, the experiment did provide a personal yardstick in that for the first time in my room I got a very respectable full height image. Since then, the majority of speaker systems have - for me - been deficient in this respect. i didn't realise how important this was, until then.

For hard rock, blues, blues-rock and some types of jazz the overall experience was very pleasurable. However, the merciless mangling of, for example, classical piano works by Bach and Mozart was astounding.

[Getgaff]

DID buy again
Logitech Transporter: Bought a used one for a bargain price, sold it earlier this year for a profit and regretted it. Then paid more to import a NOS SE version from the States :doh:
Jolida Glass FX DAC III: Again bought a used one, sold it to reduce box count and regretted it. Purchased a fully-pimped version from Robert (Opendoor) end of last year. Keeping hold of this one (for the time being at least)

Would buy again
Auralic Aries Mini: Upgrade to the Altair not being fully utilised
Oppo 105EU: Again the upgrade to the Oppo 205 not being fully utilised and I'm still reeling from the cost

Wouldn't bother with again
Oppo HA-SE2
Audioquest Dragonfly Red DAC
Meridian Explorer2 DAC
Sennheiser Momentum 1.0/2.0 on-ear/2.0 over-ear

Nothing particularly wrong with any of the above, I'm simply not an indoor headphone user. Just took a while to understand that.

[walpurgis]

Stacked JBL L100s? That must have ben fun.

Erm. I know what these sound like. Perhaps 'exciting' might be a better word than fun.

[Macca]

Well yes, in terms of visceral thrill they were astonishing. However ... in terms of some audiophile aspirations such as depth of image, width of image, ability to provide detail at low volumes and so on, they were near hopeless. But, the experiment did provide a personal yardstick in that for the first time in my room I got a very respectable full height image. Since then, the majority of speaker systems have - for me - been deficient in this respect. i didn't realise how important this was, until then.

For hard rock, blues, blues-rock and some types of jazz the overall experience was very pleasurable. However, the merciless mangling of, for example, classical piano works by Bach and Mozart was astounding.

I can guess the flaws as you say. I just have a soft spot for the Century as they were a constituent of the first really good system I ever heard and what got me into hi-fi as well as just music.

[southall-1998]

Just a tiny bit more.

Buy again.

Icon Audio Stereo 20SE. (KT88)
KEF Reference Model One.
SD Acoustics SD1.
Audiolab 8200CD.
Darkvoice 336i/SE.
Cyrus 8VS2/PSX-R.
Cyrus One.
Mission 751.
Quad 405/44.

Feck off's.

Cambridge Audio Topaz CD Player.
BTE Passive Preamp.
Albarry Passive Preamp.
Croft Micro Basic 25.
Rega RP1.
Linn Classik.

S.

[Starterman]

Would like to try (maybe own) again:
Quad 909 - superb mid range, magical on voices with some recordings
JLH 80W mosfet amps (DIY) - wish I'd kept these, not sure how good they would be compared to my current stuff but very fond memories of these (with modified power supplies)
Active Linn Ninka system - would like to heaar them again. Jekyl and Hyde speaker - great on some recordings dire on others
ES14s - I remember mine sounding fabulous (with the JLH80 and a Sondek). Heard them a few times since and they sounded OK to poor.
Cambridge Audio CD2 - had 2 of these. One of the best CDPs ever for sound, not for build quality and reliability. A mate still has one that works and it sounds superb.

Crap:
Quad 606II - British built one, sounded poor compared to the Chinese built 909
Various cables (but not all of them)
Linn Ninka active system
DIY Proac Reference 2.5 - all the rage a few years back. Taught me that it's nigh on impossible to mate an 8" mid/bass with a 3/4" tweeter. Also taught me that I don't like the Scanspeak carbon sound.
Harbeth P3ESR (borrowed , not owned) - can't understand the hype about these!
Leak ST20 - underpowered, ginger looks, forward midrange. Amazing for 50 odd years old but outclassed in every way by my KT88 amp
Cambridge 840C CDP - nicely built but such a bland sound (compared to a CD2)
Cambridge Audio 840P - bland sound especially with the rumble filter engaged, which removes any impression of ambience or scale to recordings
PASS Aleph 30 (DIY) - possibly the most unmusical amp I have ever built, and I've built a lot!
Pass preamp (DIY, cannot remember the exact model) - just rubbish
Philips CD723 (highly modded) - another flavour of the month "giant killer". Turd polishing, perhaps even trodden-on turd polishing

I'm sure there must be plenty more, especailly of the "giant Killer" variety, but I still enjoy the DIY stuff (my system is >90% DIY). I have minimal interest in commercail stuff nowadays.

[Joe]

d
Harbeth P3ESR (borrowed , not owned) - can't understand the hype about these!


No accounting for taste, of course, but I love the sound of my little Harbeths. I listen to mine in very close field, and, to me, they get everything right. I have a subwooofer hooked up to beef up the bass, but rarely feel the need to use it.

[prsjnb]

Regret buying (back in the day):

Garrard 86SB - quickly replaced by a Pioneer PL-12D (modest improvement in sound but major improvement in aesthetics, build-quality and reliability)

Dual 604 (DD) - at the time, for the same money I could have purchased a Thorens TD-160/SME-3009, but the Dual was in stock and the lead time for the Thorens was 3 - 4 weeks. What can I say, back then I was young and impetuous :mental:

Linn Helix LS-150 and LK-20 - ghastly, lifeless speakers that sucked the life out of any music played through them. Should have trusted my ears and not the 'Flat-Earth' dealer's hyperbole.

Regret loosing (back in the day):

Rogers Cadet III and Phillips GA-212/GP-400 - 'requisitioned' by my old man when he walked out on us unexpectedly on Christmas Day 1975.

Arcam Delta-250 Transport - sold for funds to purchase a Musical Fidelity A3.2 as part of my then fascination for all things MF. Should have kept it and purchased a better DAC.

Jon :-)

[stevied]

Electrocompaniet amps had a few never again rubbish

There best was a class A old one from the 90s

[Barry]

Electrocompaniet amps had a few never again rubbish

There best was a class A old one from the 90s

The Electrocompaniet "The Two Channel Amplifier" was exceptional. A commercial realisation of the Loestrom and Otala design published in the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, it was heavily biased towards Class A, ran hot, was not known for its reliability - and was a dream amp with which to drive Quad 57 ESLs.

[jandl100]

Electrocompaniet amps had a few never again rubbish

There best was a class A old one from the 90s

I've heard a couple of EC amps in comparative sessions, and they seemed remarkably lifeless to me, just dynamically bland.
A friend swears by the old 25wpc pure class A EC amp, though - maybe the one you mention.
-- edit: probably the one Barry mentioned while I was typing my post!

[stevied]

The Electrocompaniet "The Two Channel Amplifier" was exceptional. A commercial realisation of the Loestrom and Otala design published in the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, it was heavily biased towards Class A, ran hot, was not known for its reliability - and was a dream amp with which to drive Quad 57 ESLs.
Yes that was the one I started with there newer stuff is crap.

[fatmarley]

DIY Proac Reference 2.5 - all the rage a few years back. Taught me that it's nigh on impossible to mate an 8" mid/bass with a 3/4" tweeter. Also taught me that I don't like the Scanspeak carbon sound.


To be fair It was either a crossover problem or the breakup from the midbass driver that was causing the problems. Breakup from a hard cone driver sounds horrible. It's a myth that can't cross an 8" midbass to a 3/4" tweeter. You just need the right midbass driver and the right crossover.

[sq225917]

Stuff I miss.
Apogee centaurs
Kef ref 203 mk2,
Epos es14
Weiss 202 dac.
Naim aro

Stuff I don't miss
Cd17 kis.
DV carts.
Tannoys
Rega p5
Lp12
840c CD
naim superline
Linn uphorik

[Arkless Electronics]

The Electrocompaniet "The Two Channel Amplifier" was exceptional. A commercial realisation of the Loestrom and Otala design published in the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, it was heavily biased towards Class A, ran hot, was not known for its reliability - and was a dream amp with which to drive Quad 57 ESLs.

That's lostroh..... Sorry to be pedantic. IIRC it was pure class A, certainly to 25W. Also IIRC it had an input impedance of only something like 1K!! Definitely no good with a passive:eek:

Edit: This is very IIRC... but the Pioneer M90 I believe used very similar circuitry... just not in class A.

[Ammonite Audio]

Stuff I'd be happy to own again:

Epos ES14s - rashly sold in favour of KEF Q35s
Quad ESL - the Alfa Romeo of HiFi, eg every serious HiFi aficionado should own a pair at some point. So good, yet so awful at the same time.
Lyngdorf TDA2200 - sweet, muscular, musical, efficient and I'd have it back in an instant.
Benz Glider - fragile but lovely
Quad 306 - I was shocked to hear how good these are, when liberated from the grey grip of the usual 34 pre-amp

Never Again:

KEF Q35 - to be fair, KEF seem to have made the UNI-Q design work rather better nowadays if my LS50s are anything to go by.
Hegel H160 - 'nice' sounding in a damning with faint praise sort of way. In other words, refined but musically boring. A SuperNait2 ran rings around the Hegel.
Tannoy MG - maybe great in the right (wardrobe sized) cabinet and in a system that can be caned without upsetting neighbours, but not for me. Well implemented HPDs are another matter, though.
Michell Technoarm - I actually bought two of these and both disappointed. At least the second example didn't have the horribly microphonic cable of the first!
Quad 34 Pre-amp - great design, grey sound. Holds back the otherwise very good 306 power amplifier.

Surprisingly, that's about it for me.

[fatmarley]

KEF Q35 - to be fair, KEF seem to have made the UNI-Q design work rather better nowadays if my LS50s are anything to go by.

I was surprised to hear how bad they sounded compared to the older Kef Coda 8 (Bl**dy What-HiFi? mag)

[Neil McCauley]

Stuff I'd be happy to own again:

Epos ES14s - rashly sold in favour of KEF Q35s
Quad ESL - the Alfa Romeo of HiFi, eg every serious HiFi aficionado should own a pair at some point. So good, yet so awful at the same time.
Lyngdorf TDA2200 - sweet, muscular, musical, efficient and I'd have it back in an instant.
Benz Glider - fragile but lovely
Quad 306 - I was shocked to hear how good these are, when liberated from the grey grip of the usual 34 pre-amp

Never Again:

KEF Q35 - to be fair, KEF seem to have made the UNI-Q design work rather better nowadays if my LS50s are anything to go by.
Hegel H160 - 'nice' sounding in a damning with faint praise sort of way. In other words, refined but musically boring. A SuperNait2 ran rings around the Hegel.
Tannoy MG - maybe great in the right (wardrobe sized) cabinet and in a system that can be caned without upsetting neighbours, but not for me. Well implemented HPDs are another matter, though.
Michell Technoarm - I actually bought two of these and both disappointed. At least the second example didn't have the horribly microphonic cable of the first!
Quad 34 Pre-amp - great design, grey sound. Holds back the otherwise very good 306 power amplifier.

Surprisingly, that's about it for me.

I fully endorse your view of the QUAD 306.

As for the Alfa bit, one of my sub-editors owned a 166. It was, when he bought it, 13 months old and had depreciated in that one year by > 60%, a record for that era only beaten (for a short while) by the Peugeot 605. All the hapless owner was prepared to say was
"The 166 would be a minor classic ..... if everything had been built for them by Honda"

Nuff said I guess.

Neil

[walpurgis]

Quad 306 - I was shocked to hear how good these are

I picked one up out of curiosity recently. Heard them sounding good in other folks systems, but had never tried one. Turns out it's very good indeed. Sounded very promising on the end of a cheap passive, but in a different league now with a TVC fronting it.

[fatmarley]

I fully endorse your view of the QUAD 306.


Yes, got one here sounding rather nice (with a passive preamp)

[fatmarley]

I picked one up out of curiosity recently. Heard them sounding good in other folks systems, but had never tried one. Turns out it's very good indeed. Sounded very promising on the end of a cheap passive, but in a different league now with a TVC fronting it.

How do you find the TVC Improves the sound over the little bear passive?

[walpurgis]

Yes, got one here sounding rather nice (with a passive preamp)

Mine has impressed me enough to wonder what a 909 might sound like in my system. I'd not used a Quad amp since the 303 and 405, which did not hugely impress (although the 405 sounded better than the 303 to me).

[Bonky]

Yes, got one here sounding rather nice (with a passive preamp)

Yep, me too; mated with a Schiit Saga (recommended)..However, having said that, I also have a Quad 99 power amp and I have difficulty telling the difference (both have been updated by RedHill Audio).
R.

[walpurgis]

How do you find the TVC Improves the sound over the little bear passive?

The Little Bear is fine at the price, but the (borrowed) Promitheus TVC just opens the sound right up and adds body. It sounds very lucid and open, yet smoother too.

[struth]

The Little Bear is fine at the price, but the (borrowed) Promitheus TVC just opens the sound right up and adds body. It sounds very lucid and open, yet smoother too.

nice tvc that.

[walpurgis]

nice tvc that.

It is, but you should hear the MingDa MC-9 TVC that pairs with my SM-70 Pro! Whooo-hooo! :lol:

Best pre-amp I've ever heard, never mind used or owned.

[Yomanze]

I would never buy anything (well, be infuenced) based on a paid publication's review again. There have been too many times when some dude with a workbench has blown five star and award winning gear from the magazines away... Also I think a bit of digging and forum reading is a better way to do it. Got to be careful with forum choice though!

[fatmarley]

The Little Bear is fine at the price, but the (borrowed) Promitheus TVC just opens the sound right up and adds body. It sounds very lucid and open, yet smoother too.


Hmmm - I guess It shows how synergy Is everything. Compared to my Onix oa21 I get more bass but less treble. I think the slight lack of treble gives a slight lack of 'bite' compared to my onix. Not sure I'd want It any smoother (think I may have fixed the treble problem by replacing the polyester (yuck) coupling cap for a rather large 0.33uf Mundorf Supreme). Just need some time to listen, to be sure.

[fatmarley]

I would never buy anything (well, be infuenced) based on a paid publication's review again. There have been too many times when some dude with a workbench has blown five star and award winning gear from the magazines away... Also I think a bit of digging and forum reading is a better way to do it. Got to be careful with forum choice though!

Agreed! (regarding magazines)

When asking on forums, I find It helps If you find someone who has similar taste to you.

[Ammonite Audio]

Forum favourites should be viewed with the same suspicion as for magazine reviews. At least with some reviews the reviewer's known tastes and prejudices can be taken into account. There is no substitute for actually trying something at home before buying.

[struth]

It is, but you should hear the MingDa MC-9 TVC that pairs with my SM-70 Pro! Whooo-hooo! :lol:

Best pre-amp I've ever heard, never mind used or owned.

sure its good. ming da make good stuff

[Haselsh1]

I have owned various bits of shit since first getting involved in 1978 that has all added up to where I am now but:

I certainly wouldn't want another Incatech Claymore

I really would like a Kiseki Blue Silver Spot.

[southall-1998]

I have owned various bits of shit since first getting involved in 1978 that has all added up to where I am now but:

I certainly wouldn't want another Incatech Claymore

I really would like a Kiseki Blue Silver Spot.


How did you find the sound from the Claymore?

S.

[SLS]

I have owned various bits of shit since first getting involved in 1978 that has all added up to where I am now but:

I certainly wouldn't want another Incatech Claymore

I really would like a Kiseki Blue Silver Spot.

Got an Inca Tech Claymore being used in my house.

Personally, would never again buy anything with valves.

[Pharos]

I tend to agree Steven on valves, having built numerous amps with them, they look nice, comforting, have poorer specs., are inefficient, and need maintenance.

Used my Nelson Jones class A 10+10 for about 5 years and one channel went dead.
Borrowed a friend's Lowther amp, and the bass was uncontrolled, woolly.
Then bought a 303 and the bass in that was also woolly, so I sold it to a BBC engineer.
It turned out that there was a manufactured faulty BC107 that had failed in my own amp, replaced, done.

[Barry]

That's lostroh..... Sorry to be pedantic. IIRC it was pure class A, certainly to 25W. Also IIRC it had an input impedance of only something like 1K!! Definitely no good with a passive:eek:

Edit: This is very IIRC... but the Pioneer M90 I believe used very similar circuitry... just not in class A.

Correct concerning the orthography, incorrect concerning the pure Class A. The Lostroh and Otala design is Class A up to 3W (into a 4 Ohm load), and does as you say have an usually low input impedance: 3.4 kOhm.

I built one in the '80s using 2N3055s for the output transistors and drove it successfully with a Quad 44 preamp, the whole powering Quad 57 ESLs.
Sounded wonderful, but did run hot despite using a massive heatsink. Maybe one day I might re-build it as a pair of monoblocks, but since I now use a pair of Levinson ML-2s this doesn't have a high priority.

[Barry]

I tend to agree Steven on valves, having built numerous amps with them, they look nice, comforting, have poorer specs., are inefficient, and need maintenance.

Used my Nelson Jones class A 10+10 for about 5 years and one channel went dead.
Borrowed a friend's Lowther amp, and the bass was uncontrolled, woolly.
Then bought a 303 and the bass in that was also woolly, so I sold it to a BBC engineer.
It turned out that there was a manufactured faulty BC107 that had failed in my own amp, replaced, done.

My experience is the opposite of yours: I built several valve power amps (based on the Mullard designs), as well as the Nelson-Jones 10W Class A design published in Wireless World.

I quickly learnt that it was essential to use the best output transformers available, which then were those made by Parmeko, Partridge or Gardeners. But they were reliable, versatile and sounded good. I still have a Radford STA15 Mk, III, which IMO represents the final refinement of the Mullard 5-20 circuit.

My Nelson-Jones, ran hot, was unreliable and was never happy driving Quad 57s. I gave it away and replaced it with the power section of the Sugden A21 (I knew someone who knew Jim Sugden, so was able to get the PCBs and mains transformer at cost), and later the Lohsroh and Otala design.

[Haselsh1]

How did you find the sound from the Claymore?

S.

I remember the Claymore being a coarse, nasty sounding amplifier with very dubious quality control over the finish of the front panel. I replaced it with a Musical Fidelity A100, way way better.

[Haselsh1]

My experience is the opposite of yours: I built several valve power amps (based on the Mullard designs), as well as the Nelson-Jones 10W Class A design published in Wireless World.

I quickly learnt that it was essential to use the best output transformers available, which then were those made by Parmeko, Partridge or Gardeners. But they were reliable, versatile and sounded good. I still have a Radford STA15 Mk, III, which IMO represents the final refinement of the Mullard 5-20 circuit.

My Nelson-Jones, ran hot, was unreliable and was never happy driving Quad 57s. I gave it away and replaced it with the power section of the Sugden A21 (I knew someone who knew Jim Sugden, so was able to get the PCBs and mains transformer at cost), and later the Lohsroh and Otala design.

Barry, my experience is the same as yours with regard to valve amplifiers. Fabulous sound quality but very expensive, no maintenance required apart from new valves every five years and an excellent spec with regard to the aforementioned sound quality. Each to their own I guess. I just find tranny amps generally boring.

[jandl100]

I remember the Claymore being a coarse, nasty sounding amplifier with very dubious quality control over the finish of the front panel. I replaced it with a Musical Fidelity A100, way way better.

My goodness!
I had a Claymore Mk1 - the 50wpc with the somewhat clunky fascia.
I thought it very good - a smooth and powerfully solid sound. No hint of coarseness at all - in fact a little less smooth would have been welcome!
It's a funny old hobby. :)

[Haselsh1]

My goodness!
I had a Claymore Mk1 - the 50wpc with the somewhat clunky fascia.
I thought it very good - a smooth and powerfully solid sound. No hint of coarseness at all - in fact a little less smooth would have been welcome!
It's a funny old hobby. :)

Jerry, it sure is. Meat and poison spring to mind.

[Haselsh1]

Of course though my only comparison at the time was the Musical Fidelity A100 which purely in terms of sound quality absolutely obliterated the Claymore. The level of difference was massive at that time which would have been around 1988. Since then though things have changed so much and not always for the better. I remember back then though I was using the Claymore with Musical Fidelity MC4 loudspeakers, the early MkI version with the clear bass/mid. The front end was a Cambridge Audio CD2. I can't remember my vinyl front end of that time so probably not that good.

[Pharos]

I agree with Shaun about running hot, spit would just bubble on the heatsinks, but the reliability of mine was very good. However I did not stick with Nelson-Jones' layout and made mine less compact.

Its bass was tighter than both the Lowther and the 303, and the top better than the 405, but the mid not so.
Built in '72, largely whilst stoned, it ran until I sold it to an ex girl friend in '92 and AFAIK ran on.

My experience Barry with Mullard 5-10s was with RS transformers, only a lucky few got Partridges.

[Haselsh1]

I also remember 1997 and my first ever valve pre/power combination. It was a 300B PP power amp and again, the difference between that and what I had owned before was staggering it was just so different. This I used with Rogers LS3/5a's with an Arcam 8SE CD player, the one that was HDCD compatible. Front end now was an Alphason Sonata.

[Haselsh1]

There is one thing I definitely will agree on though regarding valves and trannies. I have used a 600 Watt studio amp before, tranny of course, and the bass performance was gut wrenching and staggering in its effortless power. Now for electronic music that sound was completely awesome but I am afraid that for me, the midrange always wins out and there valves win every time.

[struth]

i must have been lucky as I dont have a long list of stuff I wouldnt buy again. only the 2 currently come to mind. Thats not to say I would swap stuff back but just I wouldnt feel overly cheated if I had to

[Neil McCauley]

There is one thing I definitely will agree on though regarding valves and trannies. I have used a 600 Watt studio amp before, tranny of course, and the bass performance was gut wrenching and staggering in its effortless power. Now for electronic music that sound was completely awesome but I am afraid that for me, the midrange always wins out and there valves win every time.

I have had similar experiences and I share your conclusions. Neil

[Haselsh1]

I have had similar experiences and I share your conclusions. Neil

It's good that we agree Neil but I do understand that our individual appreciation of how our music is represented is totally personal to each of us. Clearly they were my findings over a period of thirty years or so and clearly you share those findings. For me, valves have a quite unique sound all of their own which again for me make them way superior to transistors. They do not though have that gut wrenching bass excitement. I made my final decision late last year.

[SLS]

It's good that we agree Neil but I do understand that our individual appreciation of how our music is represented is totally personal to each of us. Clearly they were my findings over a period of thirty years or so and clearly you share those findings. For me, valves have a quite unique sound all of their own which again for me make them way superior to transistors. They do not though have that gut wrenching bass excitement. I made my final decision late last year.

I fully appreciate your point, it is personal. Valves just don't give a full range sound with most modern speakers as they are just too insensitive, for the obvious and basic reason that solid state watts are cheap. The economics of getting high sensitivity speakers to run a low powered valve amplifier make no sense to me. With good 86db speakers and oodles of power, there is no need to compromise and I don't miss my Class A 300B-XLS amp one bit. When I think what is cost it makes me want to cry.

[Barry]

I agree with Shaun about running hot, spit would just bubble on the heatsinks, but the reliability of mine was very good. However I did not stick with Nelson-Jones' layout and made mine less compact.

Its bass was tighter than both the Lowther and the 303, and the top better than the 405, but the mid not so.
Built in '72, largely whilst stoned, it ran until I sold it to an ex girl friend in '92 and AFAIK ran on.

My experience Barry with Mullard 5-10s was with RS transformers, only a lucky few got Partridges.

Whilst I had built several valve amps in my youth, for some reason I feel no compulsion to build any more power amps, but I could be interested in building a preamp or phono stage using either hybrid technology or Nuvistor or miniature wire-ended valves.

The Nelson-Jones design had an excellent specification; one of the reasons why I was attracted to building it and to Class A circuitry in general. Each output power transistor was mounted on its own, widely spaced, vertical 4" x 4" finned heatsink (having a thermal resistance of, I think, 0.5degC/W), yet the amp still ran hot. A problem with all Class A designs.

I still have most of the components available to rebuild it, but I now use Quad 57s and find 10W capacity insufficient to drive them properly.


Likewise my direct experience of the Quad 303 has only been with Quad 57s. You are not alone in finding the 303 lacking (though interestingly the BBC used hundreds of them) - Jez Arkless of this parish is of like mind. But there is a synergy in performance with the 303 driving Quad 57s: at low frequencies the output capacitor of the 303 resonates with the inductance of the input transformer of the speaker, which not only flattens the speaker impedance curve but extends the low frequency response. It is interesting to speculate whether Peter Walker knew of it - I suspect he did.

[Haselsh1]

I fully appreciate your point, it is personal. Valves just don't give a full range sound with most modern speakers as they are just too insensitive, for the obvious and basic reason that solid state watts are cheap. The economics of getting high sensitivity speakers to run a low powered valve amplifier make no sense to me. With good 86db speakers and oodles of power, there is no need to compromise and I don't miss my Class A 300B-XLS amp one bit. When I think what is cost it makes me want to cry.

Ah but the sound I get from my current sound system when compared to over thirty years worth of systems proves that it is not a compromise in your terms. The only way big valve power amps fall down is in expense. Come to think of it, so do big trannie amps.

[SLS]

Ah but the sound I get from my current sound system when compared to over thirty years worth of systems proves that it is not a compromise in your terms. The only way big valve power amps fall down is in expense. Come to think of it, so do big trannie amps.

I had a system with Quad QMP, MDAC+, Vinyl 1 Ref phono amp, and other bits and bobs. Selling the whole lot and replacing with Devialet Pro 250 left me cash in hand and significantly better sound. I had previously traded down from a £6,000 (second hand) top notch valve amp (sold for £4,500) to the QMP that cost £1,500. The QMP were better than the valve amp, but not up to the Devialet.
The Devialet is so good it has completely cured me of audiophilia and I only popped in here to edit a sale tread now sold!

I would add that Harbeth stopped me worrying about speakers ever again.

[Pharos]

I agree Brian the spec was very good, especially for the time, but it had three coupling caps in the path, and direct coupling was soon to follow - Lecson AP1 and Quad 405 also I believe.

Using the NJ with my first ESS Heils, and on Michael Hedges' Aerial Boundaries, it superimposed a sense of real HF speed which was not apparent on other amps, and which Jez has attributed to TIM. Several people said the there was "something there that shouldn't be there".

I haven't used a valve amp since '74, and feel that SS amps are now so good as to be pretty well ignored as near perfect.
A friend has Benchmarks, the specs and sound are stunning.

[Haselsh1]

Unfortunately, every trannie amplifier I have listened to since 1978 with the exception of the Musical Fidelity 'Dr Thomas' totally lacks the liquid purity of midrange that a valve amplifier has in shovel loads. There is simply no comparison in midrange where transistors and valves are concerned. That purity and fluidity is unsurpassed and when regarding the high excessive cost of valve amplifiers, really good trannie amps are just as costly. The difference of course is that the market is flooded with cheap, nasty trannie amps of very low cost and performance. The same is not true of valve amps numerically.

[Haselsh1]

I would add that Harbeth stopped me worrying about speakers ever again.

LOL, I do not worry about anything hi-fi anymore. The sound system I currently have is the best I have ever owned since 1978.

[walpurgis]

There is simply no comparison in midrange where transistors and valves are concerned

I used to think that too. Changed my opinion now.

[Macca]

. The difference of course is that the market is flooded with cheap, nasty trannie amps of very low cost and performance. The same is not true of valve amps numerically.

Not so sure about that. Plenty of rubbish valve amps around. I've heard some shockers. But I also think the best power amps I have heard (to date) have used valves. Power is really the problem, restricting the speaker options. Good and powerful valve amps are mega money and that isn't true of solid state.

[AlfaGTV]

Item i would buy again (and in each case actually have bought more than once):
Bladelius Embla Pre/CD Player/Streamer/DAC/Media player - Sounds magnificent, even today! Gui a bit loong in the tooth though. Using my second unit!
Philips Fidelio X2 - One pair at home, another at work.
Yamaha NS-1000M - One pair in the main HiFi, always looking for a second pair!
Raspberry Pi and MacMini - Brilliant computers that work very well as music players!

Items i have tried but wouldnt want back:
Sennheiser HD-598, HD-650, HD-700 - Not my kinda noise, even though ive tried them again, and again...
VTL TL 5.5 Signature Series II - What a load of overprized crap...
Simply Black Magic - Swedish record player of dubious quality...
HRT Musicstreamer HD - What the f@ck is all the hype about? I do like their cheaper DACs though, still use one of them at work!

[SLS]

Unfortunately, every trannie amplifier I have listened to since 1978 with the exception of the Musical Fidelity 'Dr Thomas' totally lacks the liquid purity of midrange that a valve amplifier has in shovel loads. There is simply no comparison in midrange where transistors and valves are concerned. That purity and fluidity is unsurpassed and when regarding the high excessive cost of valve amplifiers, really good trannie amps are just as costly. The difference of course is that the market is flooded with cheap, nasty trannie amps of very low cost and performance. The same is not true of valve amps numerically.

I had an Art Audio Jota single ended Class A 22w 300B-XLS valve amp. The new price of the current version is about the same as my Dev 250 Pro, about £12,000. The Dev is ClassA/D hybrid. Besides the Dev being a better amplifier, it also includes a state of the art DAC, phono amp and steaming and only requires speaker cables and speakers to form a system.
There are also a lot of exceptionally good value for money solid state amplifiers from the likes of Yamaha and Onkyo, but I doubt many people here would consider them.
The problem with valve amplifiers is that good transformers, such as from Sowter, are expensive, so many have poor transformers and therefore are not linear.
I have no doubt that you can put together a really good valve system, I reckon it could be matched by solid state at 25% of the price or less, which is why valves wond cross my threshold again.

[Pharos]

I have a hard time trying to evaluate mid, it is relatively easy to do so with top and bass, but mid usually is a complexed waveform and the many components are spread wide.

The result for me is that solo piano is the main tool, it is so revealing of lack of integration/fragmentation of the tones.

The ATC SIA2 gained numerous awards internationally, and the mid was especially praised.
Do you valve lovers like/dislike or even despise ICEpower amps? I would in theory and bias, until I owned them.

There were also very good Jap amps in the 70s and onwards, the Sony ES range comes to mind.

My 'Benchmark' friend also has had many speakers, most of the BBC/Rogers heritage, several Harbeths and KEFs, and has now settled on some top JBLs with 15" units and 4" voice coils going up to 800Hz.

[Macca]

My 'Benchmark' friend also has had many speakers, most of the BBC/Rogers heritage, several Harbeths and KEFs, and has now settled on some top JBLs with 15" units and 4" voice coils going up to 800Hz.

He's a wise man.

[Barry]

For me the best test of the midrange is the human voice. That's why the BBC had to develop their own speakers, as most commercial designs were found wanting.

[struth]

Two best for checking is Frank Sinatra and Eva cassidy. Both distinguishable and hold perfect key

[montesquieu]

The dog's bollocks:

EAR Acute CD (mkI)
EAR V20
EAR 861
EAR 890 (hmm I think there's a theme emerging here)
Radford STA25
Tannoy GRFs
Leben 660p
Townshend Glastonburys
Townshend Rock Reference
Audio Note Io 2 / AN6s SUT
Hashimoto HM7
Quad ESL 57 and 63
Audio Origami PU7 12in
Fidelity Research FR64S
Audion Silver Knight 300b PP monoblocks
Audion Quattro preamp with phono stage
Aurorasound Vida phono stage
47 Labs Shigaraki transport
Longdog MM valve phono stage

All would be welcome again if I had the space/cash

Just bollocks:

Unison Research S8 what a total pile of shite
Whest PS20
EAR 509 monoblocks - boring
Audio Note AN-Es - tried them repeatedly at ever increasing price points I just can't abide the singalong cabinets
Audio Note Meishu - zzzzzzzzz and floppy bass
Krell KSA 50
EVA2 LDR preamp
Lyra Helicon
Glasshouse passive preamp

.... to my ears in my system ymmv blah blah

[Floyddroid]

only thing comes to ind is the MF A1000 I would def have again. top amp.

agin... well I wouldnt have the mission 782 floorstander again.. Good sounding speaker but more trouble than worth..

edit.. thought of another no... a whest phono...

+1 for the West. Very poor in comparison to much less expensive designs. I had a top of the range jobbie a few years back and had nothing but trouble with it.

[Barry]

I've heard that from several people.

[Arkless Electronics]

For me the best test of the midrange is the human voice. That's why the BBC had to develop their own speakers, as most commercial designs were found wanting.

yep the human voice is the sound we, as human beings, recognise most acutely;)

Something I noticed with Quad ESL57's was that one could be startled by the sheer realism of human voice from a good tuner on the likes of radio 4 when it was actually turned down pretty low.. that and some "sounds off" on radio plays etc, when one had the system just running in the background.. It was just so real sounding that the whole hi-fi-brain thing was out of the window and you could get that "fight or flight" thing for an instance, thinking there was somebody in the room with you.. Spooky!

I do intend to own a pair some day, these were a mates, that I heard regularly... I've refurbished all the electronics in 2 pairs without ever owning a pair :rolleyes:

[walpurgis]

yep the human voice is the sound we, as human beings, recognise most acutely;)

Especially when the wife is 'going into one'! :eek:

[Floyddroid]

Beard CA506 pre-amp amp and P100 mk2 power. Exposure 6/7 and super 8 amplifiers, B&W 801, Ruark Templar, Talisman2 and Crusader 2 speakers. Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace tt, Audio Technica OC9 3 cartridge. All fab stuff and the best i have owned.

Bullshit stuff bought on a whim that I was most disappointed with... linn Kaber speakers, Garrard 301 and 401 turntable. Origin Live Encounter tonearm in fact all Origin Live products I have owned. Musical Fidelity A1001 amp (utter shite) Kimber select interconnects.

[walpurgis]

I do intend to own a pair some day, these were a mates, that I heard regularly... I've refurbished all the electronics in 2 pairs without ever owning a pair :rolleyes:

Yes. Bit messy de-potting and re-potting the rectifiers. Which I've done a couple of times. Kept mine a year or two, but went back to Tannoys.

[Arkless Electronics]

Yes. Bit messy de-potting and re-potting the rectifiers. Which I've done a couple of times. Kept mine a year or two, but went back to Tannoys.

I don't know how Tannoy's and Quad ESL57's can be compared personally... and in case of doubt I'm firmly on the Quad side! I'll admit to not having heard enough different sets of big Tannoy's, under the best circumstances, but from what I have heard I just find them far too coloured personally. Each to their own and all that:)

[montesquieu]

I don't know how Tannoy's and Quad ESL57's can be compared personally... and in case of doubt I'm firmly on the Quad side! I'll admit to not having heard enough different sets of big Tannoy's, under the best circumstances, but from what I have heard I just find them far too coloured personally. Each to their own and all that:)

Like everything Jez, depends on the implementation.

[jandl100]

Nope, Tannoys are always shite. :D

The modded / rebuilt ones by Paul RFC are by far the best I have heard - he does a pretty creditable job of de-Tannoying them. :) But at the end of the day they still do sound like Tannoys.
Of course, some folks love them for that very reason.

[Pharos]

I agree with Jez about the human voice being a reference, for evolutionary reasons, but it does require that it is recorded well, and current BBC offerings are usually poor; proximity problems, off axis, 'inside a warbrobe' sounds.

I also agree with what he says about Tannoys vs Quads, very different animals, and the Tannoys are coloured. When at the Beeb an accomplis bought 57s, and regretted it because they couldn't do rock effectively, but Tannoys fail with acoustic music, although they do go loud.

I break down speakers into two heritage categories; tish-boom loud, and smooth boring. The former include early JBLs, Tannoys, NS1000s, and the latter, BBC monitors, (though very revealing at the time), KEFs, Rogers and others. (Tannoys originated as PA equipment).

To me these extremes are now being brought together, the advantages of each being retained inbetween the extremes much more.

There is a file of Alan Shaw and Derek Hughes in the BBC anechoic chamber recorded on very high quality stuff just before it was demolished, available on the Harbeth site..

[Haselsh1]

Not so sure about that. Plenty of rubbish valve amps around. I've heard some shockers. But I also think the best power amps I have heard (to date) have used valves. Power is really the problem, restricting the speaker options. Good and powerful valve amps are mega money and that isn't true of solid state.

OK Martin, I'll go with that because so far I have not heard any shocking valve amps only trannie ones. The cheapest valve amp I ever heard was an Audion Sterling ETSE EL34 single ended and the midrange was sublime. Back then, around 1997,
it was 600 quid brand new and I got a secondhand one for 400 notes just to try out. Gorgeous midrange but only enough power really for my Audio Note AZ 2's and then really sounded its best on acoustic music. Since then my music taste has changed considerably.

I also concede due to listening that big bold powerful trannie amps have an urge and excitement that I have always found missing from valves but that is probably because I have never owned a big bold powerful valve amp. I remember once hearing a Tube Technology Synergy amp, at least I think that was the name, and it was big and bold.

[walpurgis]

Tannoys fail with acoustic music

Can't agree with that.

[anthonyTD]

+1
Can't agree with that.

[struth]

Fight LOL

[jandl100]

JBLs, some are boom tish, but others are quite excellent monitor quality speakers (that put any Tannoy to shame imo).

[montesquieu]

+1

+2

[Starterman]

Beard CA506 pre-amp amp and P100 mk2 power. Exposure 6/7 and super 8 amplifiers, B&W 801, Ruark Templar, Talisman2 and Crusader 2 speakers. Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace tt, Audio Technica OC9 3 cartridge. All fab stuff and the best i have owned.

Bullshit stuff bought on a whim that I was most disappointed with... linn Kaber speakers, Garrard 301 and 401 turntable. Origin Live Encounter tonearm in fact all Origin Live products I have owned. Musical Fidelity A1001 amp (utter shite) Kimber select interconnects.


You made me realise I forgot the Beard P100 Mk2 from my "crap" list.
Ugly, massive and with a relentless sound that makes the fiercest of solid state amps sound dull and smooth!

[Arkless Electronics]

I agree with Floyddroid... Beard P100 is a very good valve amp... I well recall using one with Magneplaner Tympanies which it seemed to drive well and sounded very good.

[southall-1998]

You made me realise I forgot the Beard P100 Mk2 from my "crap" list.
Ugly, massive and with a relentless sound that makes the fiercest of solid state amps sound dull and smooth!

:lol:

S.

[Barry]

yep the human voice is the sound we, as human beings, recognise most acutely;)

Something I noticed with Quad ESL57's was that one could be startled by the sheer realism of human voice from a good tuner on the likes of radio 4 when it was actually turned down pretty low.. that and some "sounds off" on radio plays etc, when one had the system just running in the background.. It was just so real sounding that the whole hi-fi-brain thing was out of the window and you could get that "fight or flight" thing for an instance, thinking there was somebody in the room with you.. Spooky!

I do intend to own a pair some day, these were a mates, that I heard regularly... I've refurbished all the electronics in 2 pairs without ever owning a pair :rolleyes:

Radio plays off BBC Radio 4 can sound absolutely superb. I often enjoy listening to them. As I do with the recitation of poetry. In fact the presentation of the human voice via Quads is so good, it really annoys me that the continuity announcers on BBC now sound so unnaturally "chesty". Standards have slipped at the Beeb, or maybe they are now balanced to sound 'correct' on the tiny speakers of modern radios and personal stereos.

[Barry]

Yes. Bit messy de-potting and re-potting the rectifiers. Which I've done a couple of times. Kept mine a year or two, but went back to Tannoys.

The early versions had the EHT units potted in wax, later versions used bitumen. Generally the biggest killer of the diodes used in the Cockroft-Walton voltage multiplier is the repeated switching on and off of the speakers. Apart from one house move and a few power cuts, my 57s have been constantly energised for the last forty years. They only consume 6W.

[walpurgis]

Mine were bitumen.

[Arkless Electronics]

Radio plays off BBC Radio 4 can sound absolutely superb. I often enjoy listening to them. As I do with the recitation of poetry. In fact the presentation of the human voice via Quads is so good, it really annoys me that the continuity announcers on BBC now sound so unnaturally "chesty". Standards have slipped at the Beeb, or maybe they are now balanced to sound 'correct' on the tiny speakers of modern radios and personal stereos.

I was listening to radio 2 via the PC a few days ago and certainly got the impression that there was some non to subtle bass boost going on yes....

[Michael loves music]

Nothing wrong with Tannoy speakers I have 2 pairs of the award winning V1 sound wonderful to me in fact as I listen I think of Louise Minchin ( BBC breakfast ) in black lace bra black lace panties and black suspenders

[Haselsh1]

Oh dear, I'll never look at Louise Munchkin the same again

:eyebrows:

[farflungstar]

Should never have sold...
KEF R107 Reference speakers
First Audio Second monoblock amps
.... Synergy....

[prsjnb]

Beard CA506 pre-amp amp and P100 mk2 power. Exposure 6/7 and super 8 amplifiers, B&W 801, Ruark Templar, Talisman2 and Crusader 2 speakers. Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace tt, Audio Technica OC9 3 cartridge. All fab stuff and the best i have owned.

Bullshit stuff bought on a whim that I was most disappointed with... linn Kaber speakers, Garrard 301 and 401 turntable. Origin Live Encounter tonearm in fact all Origin Live products I have owned. Musical Fidelity A1001 amp (utter shite) Kimber select interconnects.

Intrigued by your thoughts re the MF A1001 Floyddroid: in what way(s) did if fail to satisfy? I ask because I had one from new and lived happily with it for 15 years. Proved more than adequate for driving the KEF Reference Series One with which it was paired and capable of relaying plenty of low level detail and ambience at modest listening levels and real dynamics and slam at higher levels when the recording and performance required it. Also pleasingly agnostic with regards to the musical genre (and source for that matter). I know that MF had, and perhaps still have, problems with their QC from time to time, but it seems odd that we should have developed such disparate opinions of the A1001.

Jon :scratch:

[Pharos]

My apologies to Tannoy fans, my experience is limited to Lancaster Gold 15"s, and the HPD follower, Berkley I believe.

Yes the Beeb's quality can be good, but only can, and IMO R2 is better on speech by far than R4, and even R3 on Late Junction.

[alphaGT]

Years ago, in the mid 80's, I bought a full rack of Sansui gear. A hundred watt integrated, tuner, tape deck, CD player! A turntable, and speakers. What a pile of junk! It came with a 5 year warranty, from the local electronics supermarket, and every piece of it landed in the shop within the 5 years. They never could get the speakers to work right, and they were hollow boxes with no separation between elements. Sounded horrendous. As soon as the warranty ran out I sold it all, and bought some real stereo.

I got an Adcom 555 and matching pre/tuner, some Vandersteen 2c's, and a Sony ES CD player, and Denon record player. Not all at once mind you, I was a struggling carpenter at the time, and bought one piece per year. Filling in with yard sale junk until I had it fleshed out. And I never upgraded that setup for 28 years! I gave it to my daughter and son in law, and have never regretted buying any of it! And I would recommend any of it to anyone trying to get into Hi Fi.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[chris@panteg]

Without a doubt I regret selling my Voyd. 5 and concordant excelsior pre + second audio's with Border Patrol psu's, would be sublime with the Avatar's I have now.

[Marco]

Nothing wrong with Tannoy speakers I have 2 pairs of the award winning V1 sound wonderful to me in fact as I listen I think of Louise Minchin ( BBC breakfast ) in black lace bra black lace panties and black suspenders

...whilst spanking your bare botty with the thick end of a canoe paddle? :D

Marco.

[petrat]

Moving right along ...

I'd welcome back:

Transfiguration Spirit cartridge
Cartridgeman Music Maker cartridge
SME M2-12R arm
Hashimoto SUTs
MFA Mk2 preamp
Any Shindo preamp
Croft 4SA power amp
EAR 859 integrated
Neat MFS speakers
Harbeth P3ESR speakers

No thanks:

ATC SIA2/150 integrated - screechy
Quad II amps - woolly
Project 9.1 turntable - wobbly
Tandy 'Lineaum' speakers - gutless
Nordost Blue Heaven cables - not fit for purpose.

[Haselsh1]

I also remember from 1983 with some fondness my pair of original MkI QLN loudspeakers. I would happily live with them all over again as they had a distinct 'whiteness' to their sound that would really suit my current pre/power. Unfortunately, back then, one of the bass/mid drivers developed a fault and during that period QLN ceased trading. Farewell to a gorgeous pair of speakers.

[Pharos]

I am intrigued by the 'chalk and cheese' opinions of equipment on this thread.

Petrat's description of the SIA2/150 is the only negative view I have ever heard of it, so one has to ask, 'What is going on?"
Nordost Blue Heaven were form memory the top of the range, one would at least expect them to be at their price good.

[walpurgis]

Nordost Blue Heaven were form memory the top of the range, one would at least expect them to be at their price good.

I've not heard them sound bad. But Nordost cables are rather system dependent.

[Virkon]

I am intrigued by the 'chalk and cheese' opinions of equipment on this thread.

Petrat's description of the SIA2/150 is the only negative view I have ever heard of it, so one has to ask, 'What is going on?"
Nordost Blue Heaven were form memory the top of the range, one would at least expect them to be at their price good.

I

I had a pro-ject 9.1 for a few years and it didn't wobble, maybe it was set up properly :)

[petrat]

Well :D
Blue Heaven was bottom of Nordost's range ... silver-plated ribbon cable. I actually don't 'believe' in cables making much of a difference, unless they are inherently flawed ... these were.
The dealer I bought the ATC integrated from actually stopped stocking them because of sample variation. Don't believe reviews. I tried to like it, I really did. OK, 'screechy' is an exaggeration, but it wasn't great. Paint came off it, too.
The Project ... was set up properly, insofar as the poor design and shoddy fabrication would allow. I persevered for a couple of years, before moving on.

I could have added quite a few other mistakes back then, invariably stuff highly touted by the reviews ... I've learnt since then.

[walpurgis]

Blue Heaven was bottom of Nordost's range ... silver-plated ribbon cable.

Top of the range for a while as I recall, if you are referring to their speaker cables. Red Dawn below, Solar Wind below that and Flatline below those.

[Spectral Morn]

I personally wouldn't have the gift of Nordost cables.... yuck.

[Haselsh1]

I think that the only other piece of equipment I have owned that was not really suitable and therefore sounded as though it was, was a Mayware Formula 4 tonearm. This was only really bad because I wanted to team it up with a low output moving coil at which it was completely unsuitable. Given a very low compliance moving magnet and I think it would have been fine but this was back in 1979 when I simply had no experience at such things and had listened to very little gear.

[oldius]

I would have Shahinian Obelisks again and my Leema Agena phono stage. Bloody lovely things.
I would definitely like another Goldring G99 turntable and a Thorens TD125. The latter deck that I refurbished is still one of the most beautiful decks I have seen.

I will never again own horn loudspeakers. I've never heard a pair I enjoyed and my one purchase, to see what all the fuss was about, led to a fairly immediate sale.

[walpurgis]

I will never again own horn loudspeakers. I've never heard a pair I enjoyed and my one purchase, to see what all the fuss was about, led to a fairly immediate sale.

My horn speakers sounded astonishing!

[oldius]

My horn speakers sounded astonishing!

And there's the joy of this hobby laid bare!

[Pharos]

My SIA2/150 was black anodised.

[southall-1998]

What do you expect. ATC gear are notoriously revealing, and straight to the point.

S.

[Starterman]

:lol:

S.

You wouldn't laugh if you had to live with one.