Tannoy Prestige Stirling Gold Reference Opinions

[farflungstar]

Hi guys - September is almost here and I'll finally be able to order some new speakers to replace the ANe's in the main set-up.

I'm drawn towards dual concentric and have 2 on my shortlist.

1. Omega High Output Alnico Monitors. Well reviewed and possibly my first choice.

2. Tannoy Prestige Stirling Gold Reference. This option I know very little about and can't find many reviews of this particular model. I know some guys here are Tannoy fans and wondered if anyone had an opinion on them?

[Infinitely Baffled]

Hi guys - September is almost here and I'll finally be able to order some new speakers to replace the ANe's in the main set-up.

Interesting opener, Adrian! What is it about September that opens up the possibility of new speakers? Is it that you are trying to ration yourself, so you make yourself wait? Anyway, brave fellow to swap out some AN-Es.

On the main question you raise, I'm afraid I can't help much. I first heard dual concentrics about twenty years ago. They belonged to a fellow who had repaired a Leak Stereo 20 amp for me and he used them to give it a trial run when the job was completed. The speakers were 15" Golds in Lancaster cabinets, if I remember correctly, and the album he used was Ricky Lee Jones' first album. It sounded terrific, I thought: big, easy, effortless and detailed. Mellow as well. So good I never forgot that sound and many years later I bought some IIILZs for a second system. Not the same thing, I know, but they have many virtues and I enjoyed them a lot. In fact I imagined they were about the best sound you would be able to get out of a twin-driver cabinet of those dimensions - until I found they were not ...

I now know there are designs that sound better in some way or other - probably several in fact - including the speakers I replaced them with, which are AN-Js (!). So that doesn't help much, does it? Good luck!
IB

[farflungstar]

I own a private English school in Spain and September is the beginning of new term after summer break.

Yes - I'm a little worried about swapping out the ANe's - especially with 800£ of silver rewiring - but they are looking in the tooth and I'm looking for something without the need for crossover (tannoys have them I know - there omegas no).

Ideally I'd like to try electrostatics but I just don't have the space!

[walpurgis]

Don't know the Omegas, but I started out with Tannoys 45 years ago. IIILZ to be exact, had three pairs, but moved up to various other larger models, Then downsized to Eatons, which I used for over twenty years. Had five pairs. Using renovated Cheviot 2 now, they sound glorious. Had many other makes and models, but Tannoys just sound right to me.

Try and get a demo. That should help. Is there much of a Hi-Fi trade in Spain?

[farflungstar]

Not really - there are a few shops but only in Barcelona Valencia Madrid and they're aimed at oligarchs lol. On line most are scam artists. Hence I buy from UK - after brexit it will have to be Germany.

[struth]

after a lot of pushing and shoving, trade will likely continue as normal-ish

[walpurgis]

The various Stirling models use the Tulip Waveguide, dual magnet drive unit. This can sound very good, but to my ears, just loses out on the ultimate transparency and immediacy of the single magnet 'pepperpot' types. The Kensingtons use this type of drive unit. The history of which goes back to the nineteen thirties. It's THE classic dual concentric and has never been bettered in my view. Which is why even ancient Tannoys of this type are still very sought after.

[farflungstar]

That's something I read about and what puts me off. I'd prefer to have second to the top - but that's very big money. The Omegas have received unanimous praise, like the tannoys are hand built, but don't use any crossover. I have a feeling going the tannoy route is a journey of discovery and bankrupcy jajaj.

[Macca]

I'm not keen on either. The Tannoys are the model below the Turnberry, which are not bad but don't have all the qualities of the 12 or 15 inch speakers. I thought they were rather unimpressive for the price.

The Omegas are not dual concentric, they use a full range driver with whizzer cone and the same driver without whizzer to do bass from 200hz down with just an inductor to roll of the HF. They are massively expensive for what they are in terms of actual sound-making materials (yes, they look beautiful but so what?).

For the money you could get some properly sorted vintage 12 or15 inch Tannoys. Yes, you would have to drive to UK or pay someone to deliver them, but that isn't impossible. It would be worth the extra effort involved IMO.

[farflungstar]

I agree with you about the Omegas to a point - but I was thinking of the SAM monitors which use only one alnico driver with whizzer cone and no crossover at all (according to Omega). I was toying with the high output dual driver jobbie but people have expressed a preference for the single driver so that's the route I'd go.

I don't think $2k is so much for alnico drivers (compared to AN alnico drivers, 2 of which which cost more than built and ready to go Omegas) housed in beautiful hand built enclosures.

I'm looking for transparency, imaging, soundstage, hence point source route. If I had the space I'd definately be going the electrostatic route but unless I change house I'm limited.

[walpurgis]

To my ears, Tannoys give a considerably better sense of a point source than any dual cone (whzzer type) drive unit I've heard. They also seem to portray image depth better too.

[farflungstar]

The Kensingtons certainly have a following - from the write ups they have all the qualities im looking for - but I doubt I'll find a pair on the used market and 12k is a lot of moolah.

[pgarrish]

I think you'll struggle to beat a pair of 12" dc's in a custom cab with bespoke x-over. 4K should get that

[farflungstar]

I think you'll struggle to beat a pair of 12" dc's in a custom cab with bespoke x-over. 4K should get that
The problem is I wouldn't know where to start. scratch

[pgarrish]

The problem is I wouldn't know where to start. scratch

Buy a pair of cheviots or similar with 12" hpd, preferably recently refurbished. Contact paul at rfc for cross overs then paul (again) or speedy steve for cabinets, or a cabinet maker to veneer the cans you have. Whichever cabs you start with get the cone centre up to ear height.

[walpurgis]

The problem is I wouldn't know where to start. scratch

There are many here who have knowledge in that area. Just ask. :)

[Sherwood]

I think the important point is how they sound and in my view it would be difficult to beat any Omega model at its respective price point. In terms of value for money, you are getting high spec Alnico drivers and a hand-constructed cabinet with extensive bracing and damping. That take a lot of hours of work. The cabinets are indeed beautifully finished, but that simply reflects the quality of workmanship that goes into all stages of the Omega process. The fact that they do not contain a bundle of expensive crossover components is one of the reasons they sound so good rather than a cause for criticism.

Geoff


I'm not keen on either. The Tannoys are the model below the Turnberry, which are not bad but don't have all the qualities of the 12 or 15 inch speakers. I thought they were rather unimpressive for the price.

The Omegas are not dual concentric, they use a full range driver with whizzer cone and the same driver without whizzer to do bass from 200hz down with just an inductor to roll of the HF. They are massively expensive for what they are in terms of actual sound-making materials (yes, they look beautiful but so what?).

For the money you could get some properly sorted vintage 12 or15 inch Tannoys. Yes, you would have to drive to UK or pay someone to deliver them, but that isn't impossible. It would be worth the extra effort involved IMO.

[farflungstar]

I know you're going to point at me and laugh - but I don't quite understand how a whizzer works at producing extended clean treble.

[Macca]

I think the important point is how they sound and in my view it would be difficult to beat any Omega model at its respective price point. In terms of value for money, you are getting high spec Alnico drivers and a hand-constructed cabinet with extensive bracing and damping. That take a lot of hours of work. The cabinets are indeed beautifully finished, but that simply reflects the quality of workmanship that goes into all stages of the Omega process. The fact that they do not contain a bundle of expensive crossover components is one of the reasons they sound so good rather than a cause for criticism.

Geoff


Well, for a single driver speaker you need to have a good quality driver. In fact the driver needs to be amazingly good if the speaker is to be even remotely hi-fidelity. The advantages of using Alnico in the magnets are at best doubtful and at worst just marketing. Beautifully finished cabs (which I agree, they are) won't make any difference to how the speaker will sound but they do cost a lot, and if sound quality is a priority and the budget is not unlimited it makes no senses to me to pay for such wonders unless I am primarily buying an item of furniture first and a loudspeaker second.

In other words I'm not suggesting the speakers are expensive compared to the build cost. If I thought they were a rip-off I would just say so. I'm saying they are expensive because money has been spent on stuff that doesn't matter to their primary purpose.

[Macca]

I know you're going to point at me and laugh - but I don't quite understand how a whizzer works at producing extended clean treble.

'Extended clean treble' and 'whizzer cones' don't really go together in the same sentence. Although I don't have a downer on them like some people here. I used to have a set of Audax single range drivers with whizzer cones that I stuck in some Lowther Acousta cabs, and they were pretty good, no problem with top end 'sparkle'. They won't do much above 15khz and it won't be a flat frequency response either but whilst these things look bad on paper, in practice it isn't always the case.

[struth]

Whizzers are usually stiffer and have a stiffer connection to the voice coil. They start lower down than you might think..probably 3khz or so depending and kinda can take over past 7khz. They can buzz like buggery too. Ive got 2 sets and the smaller fane ones are fairly good actually. The big 12" ones needed a little mod.lol. The difference in stiffness i think is what produces the crossover. Prefer a better, lower power driver personally..you can alway bang a tweeter in if you want extra highs.
Ive recently added a small set of actives to mine and feed them together from the pre. Might sound odd but it sounds great as the actives take a rca sub too. Once the levels are adjusted right they blend seemlessly

[farflungstar]

I try to be logical in all things - and my leaning to a single driver is based on zero crossover to mess things up, no phase anomalies etc. It's about purity (hence electrostatics have been considered but can't be accommodated according to accepted wisdom). My ANe SPX will be hard to beat - they are pretty seamless thanks to the tweeter cut off being pretty low - but I'd like even better imaging - hence point source.

This is so difficult when I can't audition - but research and my instincts have, with the exception of a Jolida pre , given me the expected rewards along my journey.
But it's a nightmare, I'm not rich and have a budget of around 15k for upgrades. Ideally I want a Reed arm from Hugo as well as another Allaerts cart - and I'd prefer NEW speakers (unless bought from a member of this parish) so I have up to around 7k for them .

[montesquieu]

I think you'll struggle to beat a pair of 12" dc's in a custom cab with bespoke x-over. 4K should get that


Totally agree. I've heard the Stirlings and while they weren't bad a good pair of 12in HPDs in a proper cabinet beat them easily. Kensingtons are better (and should be available £4-5kis second hand) but again the HPDs are better.

Happy to talk on the phone Adey if you are serious about going down the Tannoy route I have had Tannoys of some description for the last 30 years and Golds/HPDs for most of the last decade.

[farflungstar]

Whizzers are usually stiffer and have a stiffer connection to the voice coil. They start lower down than you might think..probably 3khz or so depending and kinda can take over past 7khz. They can buzz like buggery too. Ive got 2 sets and the smaller fane ones are fairly good actually. The big 12" ones needed a little mod.lol. The difference in stiffness i think is what produces the crossover. Prefer a better, lower power driver personally..you can alway bang a tweeter in if you want extra highs.
Ive recently added a small set of actives to mine and feed them together from the pre. Might sound odd but it sounds great as the actives take a rca sub too. Once the levels are adjusted right they blend seemlessly
Thanks - that's exactly what I was looking to know..

[petrat]

In a similar vein, here's something that impressed me at Munich this year. Easily bettered the (low spec) AN Es I used to have ... http://www.heco-audio.de/en/loudspeakers/by-series/heco-direkt-einklang

[farflungstar]

I've read about them somewhere - good opinions.

What is the difference between alnico and ferrite magnets anyway?

[walpurgis]

Claims are made as to differing magnet materials having different 'characters' in sound presentation. The main materials being Ceramic Ferrite, Alnico (aluminium/nickel/cobalt alloy) and Neodimium. There are other types but they are not common. Personally, I think that if a speaker's magnetic circuit is designed properly there should be nothing in it.

[Sherwood]

I would say that a highly engineered handmade multi-layered speaker cabinet was pretty important. The cost reflects the hours of effort put into making the speaker. My Omegas (custom made Alnico units) are comparable in quality to my Magneplanar 1.7s albeit with different strengths. One strength is their high efficiency which makes them a perfect match for valve amps. My Omegas are used in a vinyl only system on the end of a modified Linn LP12, EAR 834P, and Art Audio Quintet power amp running in triode mode (15w per channel). They sound awesome and easily displaced my Rogers LS35a speakers which frankly sound poor in comparison.


Geoff


Well, for a single driver speaker you need to have a good quality driver. In fact the driver needs to be amazingly good if the speaker is to be even remotely hi-fidelity. The advantages of using Alnico in the magnets are at best doubtful and at worst just marketing. Beautifully finished cabs (which I agree, they are) won't make any difference to how the speaker will sound but they do cost a lot, and if sound quality is a priority and the budget is not unlimited it makes no senses to me to pay for such wonders unless I am primarily buying an item of furniture first and a loudspeaker second.

In other words I'm not suggesting the speakers are expensive compared to the build cost. If I thought they were a rip-off I would just say so. I'm saying they are expensive because money has been spent on stuff that doesn't matter to their primary purpose.

[Sherwood]

I too am generally suspicious about the claims for rare materials mined from the trails of comets or forged in the fires of middle earth. However having heard the difference between the standard Omega drivers (which are already very good) and the Alnico drivers, the difference was clear. The Alnicos had that valve like mid range presence and weight and more immediacy. I am not claiming that Alnicos per se are necessarily better than other driver materials, only that the Omega Alnico drivers are pretty special and not that much more expensive than the standard units. That is why I choose the Alnicos for my second pair of Omega speakers. They just sounded better than anything else I had heard at or anywhere near their price.

Geoff


Claims are made as to differing magnet materials having different 'characters' in sound presentation. The main materials being Ceramic Ferrite, Alnico (aluminium/nickel/cobalt alloy) and Neodimium. There are other types but they are not common. Personally, I think that if a speaker's magnetic circuit is designed properly there should be nothing in it.

[farflungstar]

God it would be nice to sit down and listen to both Tannoy and the Omegas - impossible. My instincts say either would be right in their own way. Hmmm