View Full Version : Tron Convergence MC Phonostage auditioned
Today I spent a very pleasant few hours at my friend Mick's house listening to the Tron Convergence phonostage. This was the moving coil version although a moving magnet one is available for about £100 less (the MC compatibility is achieved by placing a couple of step-up transformers ahead of the MM circuit - quite a common technique in valve designs).
So in terms of what you get this is a very nicely made, but quite simple, design. It's quite a chunky single box, a set of input and output sockets on the back (good quality gold plated) and on the front is an illuminated on/off button - simple and stylish. Mains comes in via a fused IEC socket - the quality of fit and finish is excellent. As far as I can see there is no way of adjusting cartridge loading though I may be wrong (there is certainly no external adjustment). I didn't look inside Mick's unit but pictures of the internals available on the Internet show this to be of typical Tron standard - that's to say it is very professionally built with strong attention to detail. This is a full valve design (rather than a hybrid) and the three valves seem to cover both the input and output stages. The first thing that struck me was how little excess noise this stage produced - certainly for a valve design it has very low hiss and hum and produced no weird pops or buzzes (as some stages can). As for sound, well I was very pleasantly surprised and found it very well balanced. As one would expect, the midrange was particularly expressive but it was also much more balanced across the frequency spectrum than I have found with some other stages. For £1000.00 this is a very good stage indeed and could easily fit into a great many systems, valve or transistor based.
Bigman80
11-08-2017, 16:53
Today I spent a very pleasant few hours at my friend Mick's house listening to the Tron Convergence phonostage. This was the moving coil version although a moving magnet one is available for about £100 less (the MC compatibility is achieved by placing a couple of step-up transformers ahead of the MM circuit - quite a common technique in valve designs).
So in terms of what you get this is a very nicely made, but quite simple, design. It's quite a chunky single box, a set of input and output sockets on the back (good quality gold plated) and on the front is an illuminated on/off button - simple and stylish. Mains comes in via a fused IEC socket - the quality of fit and finish is excellent. As far as I can see there is no way of adjusting cartridge loading though I may be wrong (there is certainly no external adjustment). I didn't look inside Mick's unit but pictures of the internals available on the Internet show this to be of typical Tron standard - that's to say it is very professionally built with strong attention to detail. This is a full valve design (rather than a hybrid) and the three valves seem to cover both the input and output stages. The first thing that struck me was how little excess noise this stage produced - certainly for a valve design it has very low hiss and hum and produced no weird pops or buzzes (as some stages can). As for sound, well I was very pleasantly surprised and found it very well balanced. As one would expect, the midrange was particularly expressive but it was also much more balanced across the frequency spectrum than I have found with some other stages. For £1000.00 this is a very good stage indeed and could easily fit into a great many systems, valve or transistor based.
I found this to be very good at creating a 3D image too. Quite hallucinogenic actually.
Actually, I thought the specific focus and 3D image aspect was one of its weaker qualities.
Bigman80
12-08-2017, 04:56
Actually, I thought the specific focus and 3D image aspect was one of its weaker qualities.Really! I'm going to get my ears syringed lol.
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Perhaps I'm being overly critical as Mick's other stage is a Paradise and that was one of the most obvious stand out differences between the two.
Wakefield Turntables
12-08-2017, 07:48
I was just about to ask about the difference you found between the paradise and the Tron. So I take it the paradise is still your reference.
Bigman80
12-08-2017, 07:50
The paradise is quickly becoming a bit o a mythical beast in my mind. Is it as good as I hope? Will one ever cross my ears?? It's a bit of a jump in class I suppose from the Tron but that probably is down to my lack of exposure to the High End.
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I was just about to ask about the difference you found between the paradise and the Tron. So I take it the paradise is still your reference.
Yes, the Paradise was actually quite different and remains my reference. However, to directly compare the two isn't really fair as the Paradise isn't a commercial design (as such) and to build one costs as much, if not more, than the Convergence when sold through a retailer (all beautifully boxed and badged). The Paradise had much better focus - instruments were more clearly defined in space and existed more clearly in their own acoustic. The stereo image was also quite a bit wider and deeper. The overall dynamic range was greater and the whole character of the frequency spectrum was more linear - particularly in the bass and low bass.
Wakefield Turntables
12-08-2017, 08:51
Yes, the Paradise was actually quite different and remains my reference. However, to directly compare the two isn't really fair as the Paradise isn't a commercial design (as such) and to build one is as much, if not more, than the Convergence when sold through a retailer (all beautifully boxed and badged). The Paradise had much better focus - instruments were more clearly defined in space and existed more clearly in their own acoustic. The stereo image was also quite a bit wider and deeper. The overall dynamic range was greater and the whole character of the frequency spectrum was more linear - particularly in the bass and low bass.
ok, thanks for that.
The paradise is quickly becoming a bit o a mythical beast in my mind. Is it as good as I hope? Will one ever cross my ears?? It's a bit of a jump in class I suppose from the Tron but that probably is down to my lack of exposure to the High End.
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Most of the ones that are going to be built have been by now so I don't think we will see very many more appearing. Whether you will hear one is difficult to say - certainly not at any commercial show and I've yet to see one at Scalford. In addition, the sheer amount of space one takes up is never going to endear it to many (mine even requires two mains leads) where the fashion seems to be toward minimising box count - the Convergence is a much more compact design.
Most of the ones that are going to be built have been by now so I don't think we will see very many more appearing. Whether you will hear one is difficult to say - certainly not at any commercial show and I've yet to see one at Scalford. .
A 2 box Paradise belonging (I think) to Alan has made it to the NEBO meets on a couple of occasions. It is astonishingly good.
Bigman80
12-08-2017, 08:58
Most of the ones that are going to be built have been by now so I don't think we will see very many more appearing. Whether you will hear one is difficult to say - certainly not at any commercial show and I've yet to see one at Scalford. In addition, the sheer amount of space one takes up is never going to endear it to many (mine even requires two mains leads) where the fashion seems to be toward minimising box count - the Convergence is a much more compact design.I've seen some in a 4 box arrangement!!! Still, I suspect it's very very good.
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i wish i have the knowledge to make one,sadly i'll have to wait until someone design one made from wood........
topoxforddoc
12-08-2017, 09:12
The Paradise is a very good top notch phono stage. I think that Simon said that he could make a Paradise for £1500 as a DIY project, when the boards were still available. Realistically, if the Paradise were a retail product, this would make the RRP more than £5000, allowing for manufacturer and dealer margins plus the dreaded VAT.
I've seen some in a 4 box arrangement!!! Still, I suspect it's very very good.
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Yes, mine is in one of the four box configurations (as is Mick's). It doesn't actually have to be in so many boxes, but the overall size won't be that much smaller.
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I think it's worth noting that the Convergence is Tron's entry level design and there are a number of more sophisticated (and expensive) models in the Tron range. However, for a £1,000.00 the Convergence is very good.
Bigman80
12-08-2017, 09:13
Yes, mine is in one of the four box configurations. It doesn't actually have to be in so many boxes, but the overall size won't be that much smaller.
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I think it's worth noting that the Convergence is Tron's entry level design and there are a number of more sophisticated (and expensive) models in the Tron range. However, for a £1,000.00 the Convergence is very good.Understood.
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Wakefield Turntables
12-08-2017, 09:15
I've seen some in a 4 box arrangement!!! Still, I suspect it's very very good.
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Yep, mine is a 4 boxer as well. It's going away soon for some work on the RIAA and its ability to switch between cartridge loads more accurately.
Bigman80
12-08-2017, 09:16
Yep, mine is a 4 boxer as well. It's going away soon for some work on the RIAA and its ability to switch between cartridge loads more accurately.You have a lot of really nice gear lol.
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Wakefield Turntables
12-08-2017, 09:21
You have a lot of really nice gear lol.
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You should see the latest resistors from the USA I think Simon chose some with 0.01% tolerance.
Those would be the Texas Instrument Z-foils
Bigman80
12-08-2017, 09:53
Yes there was a price recently quoted at £1800 for a built one with the last remaining boards. I wish i had the funds!!!!
Bigman80
12-08-2017, 09:55
You should see the latest resistors from the USA I think Simon chose some with 0.01% tolerance.
Those would be the Texas Instrument Z-foils
sweet christmas! It's just not fair!!!! lol, I am hoping to get a home demo of the Longdog Jfet soonish, probably next month, I'd love an A/B comparison.
Arkless Electronics
12-08-2017, 13:43
As I mentioned elsewhere the other day I am planning on making an MC only phono stage which uses the same operating principle as the Paradise... which operates in a completely different manner to all other phono stages other than the Pink Triangle "PIP" (to the best of my knowledge no other units using the principle exist anyway). I also independently "invented" the same thing about 20 years ago and built and sold several very good phono stages which are still in use today using the idea.
It is already designed at computer simulation level and sim results look very good. I intend that it will be a two box unit at around £800-£1000 starting price. All circuitry is of my own design and this is not intended to be a "Paradise clone" but a design in it's own right which uses the same operating principle as the Paradise and Pink Triangle PIP.
Bigman80
12-08-2017, 14:21
As I mentioned elsewhere the other day I am planning on making an MC only phono stage which uses the same operating principle as the Paradise... which operates in a completely different manner to all other phono stages other than the Pink Triangle "PIP" (to the best of my knowledge no other units using the principle exist anyway). I also independently "invented" the same thing about 20 years ago and built and sold several very good phono stages which are still in use today using the idea.
It is already designed at computer simulation level and sim results look very good. I intend that it will be a two box unit at around £800-£1000 starting price. All circuitry is of my own design and this is not intended to be a "Paradise clone" but a design in it's own right which uses the same operating principle as the Paradise and Pink Triangle PIP.
I did read that JeZ and intended to comment but got distracted. It's certainly something id like to hear. I'll google the PIP as i hadn't heard of it previously!
The PIP was a novel design by Pink Triangle and used what, I believe, is called transconductance circuitry. Unfortunately it suffered from a bit of unreliability and they are now very rare.
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Another excellent stage I have had the pleasure of listening to was a valve hybrid design that Jez built a year or so ago. I believe only one of these was constructed which is a shame as it was really very good (very low self noise too).
Arkless Electronics
12-08-2017, 15:22
The PIP was a novel design by Pink Triangle and used what, I believe, is called transconductance circuitry. Unfortunately it suffered from a bit of unreliability and they are now very rare.
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Another excellent stage I have had the pleasure of listening to was a valve hybrid design that Jez built a year or so ago. I believe only one of these was constructed which is a shame as it was really very good (very low self noise too).
Yup spot on. That valve hybrid uses the same method but not in as purist a way as the Paradise or PIP as valve circuitry is limited by not having PNP valves available! An improved but MM version of that hybrid is under construction for a customer as the phono stage part of a complete pre amp at the moment.... which is what is temporarily causing this new phono stage of which I speak to remain vapour ware until the paying job is finished!
Bigman80
12-08-2017, 15:24
Earn first mate, Golden rule !!!!!
Jez, if your new design achieves anything like the performance of the Paradise (and I've no reason to believe it won't) then it will be the audio bargain of the century at £800.00-£1,000.00
Bigman80
12-08-2017, 15:58
Jez, if your new design achieves anything like the performance of the Paradise (and I've no reason to believe it won't) then it will be the audio bargain of the century at £800.00-£1,000.00+1
That's why I'm eager to hear it!
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Arkless Electronics
12-08-2017, 16:02
Jez, if your new design achieves anything like the performance of the Paradise (and I've no reason to believe it won't) then it will be the audio bargain of the century at £800.00-£1,000.00
That's what I'm hoping!
Edit: Apparently there may be an LFD phono stage with the same technology.
I'm not aware of one - will look into it.
Bigman80
12-08-2017, 17:18
That's what I'm hoping!
Edit: Apparently there may be an LFD phono stage with the same technology.Oh. Does that scupper things ?
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Arkless Electronics
12-08-2017, 18:05
Oh. Does that scupper things ?
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I'm not aware of one - will look into it.
The designer of The PIP is Owen Jones who studied/worked with Professor Hawksford of Essex University one of who's theories is "Low Fuzzy Distortion" LFD...
I believe LFD is a commercial offshoot of Hawksfords with another guy... (Bewley rings a bell?). The PIP had rave reviews at the time and I reckon it is not much of a presumption that the top LFD phono stages will probably use the same technique...
It scuppers nothing at all! Transconductance amplification is hardly new (though very rarely used in audio) and I can prove that I independently "invented" a transconductance RIAA stage 20 years ago:)
I have a power amp designed as well that uses the technique to provide the low distortion gain for a zero feedback class A jobby... Vapourware of course:D
Hey if someone wants to say "I'll buy the first one" I'll start making it exist:ner:
Bigman80
12-08-2017, 18:11
The designer of The PIP is Owen Jones who studied/worked with Professor Hawksford of Essex University one of who's theories is "Low Fuzzy Distortion" LFD...
I believe LFD is a commercial offshoot of Hawksfords with another guy... (Bewley rings a bell?). The PIP had rave reviews at the time and I reckon it is not much of a presumption that the top LFD phono stages will probably use the same technique...
It scuppers nothing at all! Transconductance amplification is hardly new (though very rarely used in audio) and I can prove that I independently "invented" a transconductance RIAA stage 20 years ago:)
I have a power amp designed as well that uses the technique to provide the low distortion gain for a zero feedback class A jobby... Vapourware of course:D
Hey if someone wants to say "I'll buy the first one" I'll start making it exist:ner:Haha, matey, if money was no object, I'd fund that venture !
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I've found the Silbatone C-100 which uses transconductance circuitry. The most recent price for that I can see is €70,000.00. I can't seem to find any mention of LFD using the technique, though information on LFD isn't easy to find full stop.
montesquieu
12-08-2017, 18:51
As I mentioned elsewhere the other day I am planning on making an MC only phono stage which uses the same operating principle as the Paradise... which operates in a completely different manner to all other phono stages other than the Pink Triangle "PIP" (to the best of my knowledge no other units using the principle exist anyway). I also independently "invented" the same thing about 20 years ago and built and sold several very good phono stages which are still in use today using the idea.
It is already designed at computer simulation level and sim results look very good. I intend that it will be a two box unit at around £800-£1000 starting price. All circuitry is of my own design and this is not intended to be a "Paradise clone" but a design in it's own right which uses the same operating principle as the Paradise and Pink Triangle PIP.
Please put me in the queue to hear this Jez. This sounds very interesting.
Arkless Electronics
12-08-2017, 19:34
I've found the Silbatone C-100 which uses transconductance circuitry. The most recent price for that I can see is €70,000.00. I can't seem to find any mention of LFD using the technique, though information on LFD isn't easy to find full stop.
A possible 3 commercial units then... One made in small quantities, many of which ceased to function it seems, by a no longer trading company donkeys ago... a possible unit from LFD.... and one more which I've never heard of at HOW MUCH!!??:eek: Does it have solid gold casework?:stalks:
Room for another one then:)
Oh and did I mention that I've come up with a new technique for servoing the input stage biasing (yeah that's vague.. and all yer going to get:eyebrows:) which means I can get rid of all the electrolytic caps in the Paradise?:D The computer says it works a dream 'n all. Will it work in practice? I'll find out when I make one but I can't think of any reason why not.... famous last words:doh:
Firebottle
12-08-2017, 19:49
Brilliant Jez, give it a good servoing :rolleyes:
Arkless Electronics
12-08-2017, 19:52
Brilliant Jez, give it a good servoing :rolleyes:
It's not an actual word, true enough, but I like it.
Edit: Looked it up and there is such a word:ner: :)
Bigman80
12-08-2017, 20:22
A possible 3 commercial units then... One made in small quantities, many of which ceased to function it seems, by a no longer trading company donkeys ago... a possible unit from LFD.... and one more which I've never heard of at HOW MUCH!!??:eek: Does it have solid gold casework?:stalks:
Room for another one then:)
Oh and did I mention that I've come up with a new technique for servoing the input stage biasing (yeah that's vague.. and all yer going to get:eyebrows:) which means I can get rid of all the electrolytic caps in the Paradise?:D The computer says it works a dream 'n all. Will it work in practice? I'll find out when I make one but I can't think of any reason why not.... famous last words:doh:Lol. You seem to be inspired Jez!!! I like it.
Start a thread. I'll be following intently.
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sq225917
18-08-2017, 14:47
At this juncture I should probably mention that i do have boards for one last Paradise built up. Just needs ther Calvins finishing and then boxing up. I'll probably get round to it mid Sept as I have a few other projects ongoing; bridging my power amps, finishing a set of Mod86p and doing Andrew's Paradise...
No rest for the wicked.
topoxforddoc
03-11-2018, 11:21
TRON Convergence part of the Highwater Sound system rated highly in the Best Sound awards at RMAF by The Absolute Sound, Myles Astor at Audionirvana and Audiobeatnik. That's pretty good for a sub £1500 phono stage.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/rmaf-2018-electronics-15k-and-up-1/
https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/title-to-be-added/audio-shows/rmaf-2018/99035-rmaf-2018-wrapup-and-best-sound-around
https://theaudiobeatnik.com/rmaf-2018-best-system-awards/
After a lot of daliances with passive pre amps I have recently stuck a "Vanilla" Tron Seven active Linestage (+15db If memory serves) and to say I am astonished with the revised performance from my system is an understatement.
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