View Full Version : The end of the (upgrade) road?
Having added a second set of Taket Batpure supertweeters to my system, and having tweaked my VTA slightly, I feel that my HiFi journey is now on the finishing straight, getting close to the end. It is nearing the time to sit back and enjoy what I have and listen to more music. Realistically speaking it is going to take some serious cash (or lucky purchases) to improve on what I have. Yes, there are still the "I wonder" moments where I fancy trying something else, only to find it is no better, just different. The only thing still niggling away at me is the speakers. The Electric Beach FH3s are very good, but sometimes I feel myself wanting a bit more slam/depth (did someone mention Edingdales?).
Since I joined AoS 5 years ago, a lot has changed.
I have gone from playing nothing but CD, to almost nothing but vinyl.
A few new components have come and gone.
I have played with cables until I found how good the Klotz MC5000 and the Sommer CarboKab 225 are, and stopped looking.
I have meddled with speaker cables, making some good DIY ones, before changing speakers and using some good quality copper cable.
Cartridges have gone from MM to MC and back again, with a few coming and going, leaving me a nice selection to suit all moods and moments.
The TT has gone from one of the most common decks available to something pretty unique and to something I really like the sound of.
I have changed my opinion on how important power is, and that mains cables can make a difference. I would never have believed it if I hadn't tried it for myself.
Although I know that there is always something better out there, I have got to the point where I just don't care anymore.
Most importantly though, I have learnt a lot from my time here, and I thank you for your patience.
During my time here at AoS, I have made new friends and acquaintances. Don't get me wrong, this is not a farewell, more of a "à bientôt".
I will drop in from time to time, just to say hello and catch up on the news.
I have watched your journey Kevin as it has been similar to mine and know where you have got too as I have reached this stage as well . Yes you can always buy other stuff but I have found other items are just different and not always any better, hence I feel quite happy with my system and I am sure you will agree it's now more about the music and not the system!:)
I totally agree.
It sounds great now. I recently did a comparison between my first system I ever bought, one I lived with for 10 years and what I have now.
At the time of owning each system, I was happy with it, but there is no competition to which I prefer.
The money I would normally spend on HiFi components is being redirected to vinyl. both new and old.
Nice on Kev. I am the
Same in that Ive finished my journey now. Thought I'd finished a few times but glad to say. Definitely finally.
Don't be too much of a stranger
That's good news Kevin, and a good place to be. Well done.
Looks like you will have to change your avatar now! :D
Enjoy your system - but don't become too much of a recluse. Keep in touch
Barry
clarkey555
09-08-2017, 19:16
Having added a second set of Taket Batpure supertweeters to my system, and having tweaked my VTA slightly, I feel that my HiFi journey is now on the finishing straight, getting close to the end. It is nearing the time to sit back and enjoy what I have and listen to more music. Realistically speaking it is going to take some serious cash (or lucky purchases) to improve on what I have. Yes, there are still the "I wonder" moments where I fancy trying something else, only to find it is no better, just different. The only thing still niggling away at me is the speakers. The Electric Beach FH3s are very good, but sometimes I feel myself wanting a bit more slam/depth (did someone mention Edingdales?).
Since I joined AoS 5 years ago, a lot has changed.
I have gone from playing nothing but CD, to almost nothing but vinyl.
A few new components have come and gone.
I have played with cables until I found how good the Klotz MC5000 and the Sommer CarboKab 225 are, and stopped looking.
I have meddled with speaker cables, making some good DIY ones, before changing speakers and using some good quality copper cable.
Cartridges have gone from MM to MC and back again, with a few coming and going, leaving me a nice selection to suit all moods and moments.
The TT has gone from one of the most common decks available to something pretty unique and to something I really like the sound of.
I have changed my opinion on how important power is, and that mains cables can make a difference. I would never have believed it if I hadn't tried it for myself.
Although I know that there is always something better out there, I have got to the point where I just don't care anymore.
Most importantly though, I have learnt a lot from my time here, and I thank you for your patience.
During my time here at AoS, I have made new friends and acquaintances. Don't get me wrong, this is not a farewell, more of a "à bientôt".
I will drop in from time to time, just to say hello and catch up on the news.
Good on you Kev that's a good place to be hopefully I will not be far behind I would much rather buy lots of lovely vinyl kick back and just enjoy the music as others have said don't be to much of a stranger
Best wishes mate
brian2957
09-08-2017, 19:25
Nice one Kevin , what a great place to be :) Don't be a stranger mate , your opinions and observations are valued on the forum :)
QUOTE=CageyH;887632]Having added a second set of Taket Batpure supertweeters to my system, and having tweaked my VTA slightly, I feel that my HiFi journey is now on the finishing straight, getting close to the end. It is nearing the time to sit back and enjoy what I have and listen to more music. Realistically speaking it is going to take some serious cash (or lucky purchases) to improve on what I have. Yes, there are still the "I wonder" moments where I fancy trying something else, only to find it is no better, just different. The only thing still niggling away at me is the speakers. The Electric Beach FH3s are very good, but sometimes I feel myself wanting a bit more slam/depth (did someone mention Edingdales?).
Hi Kevin,
Though the FH3 are excellent speakers (I should know as I have built several pairs for folk using various Fostex and Mark Audio drivers including a couple of pairs for myself) they do have there limits. To whet your appetite Below is a photo of my prototype MKII Edingdales that are now my official demo speakers. I am currently building a pair the Edingdale MKII speakers for a couple up in Tyne and Wear. These will be finished in Oak veneer. The demo pair in the photo below are skinned in a rather expensive Tamo Ash veneer.
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/colin/IMG_2403.JPG.
Next you are in the UK you are most welcome to pop over to Topps' Towers for a review of the speakers. We can accommodate a sleepover to ease travel arrangements and my wife's hospitality is second to non. However beware. We do have quite a new range of speakers that might temp you? There is the new Headley range of small 2-way stand mount speakers that are a similar size in height to the FH3 but offer better low frequency response. These were the result of an initial bespoke request from a guy in the Cambridge area. The client wanted a small 2-way speaker and is a great fan of the ProAc range but his budget wouldn't stretch to the price of these fine sounding speakers and so his brief was can we design a ProAc inspired speaker within his quoted budget and with a downward firing port? The result was these:
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/colin/IMG_2002.JPG http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/colin/Henley_Grilles.JPG
We have expanded the range to include an all SEAS driver version and an all SB Acoustics Satori driver version. These are more WAF friendly but don't have the same slam as the Edingdales. Here is what the guy had to say about the originals we built for him:
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6927&start=15#p147351
Look forward to meeting up with you.
Regards Colin
Colin,
Thanks for the response.
I was in touch a few months ago with Scott and yourself about the speakers.
One of the questions I was going to ask was about possible demos, so I appreciate the offer of overnight accommodation.
I will be in touch closer to the time.
ohhh lovely veneering on those speakers!
So you say those Mk11 Edie's have got the bass? They sure look like they do! I like the finish.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Apart from still wanting a set of Edingdales, nothing much has changed recently.
I fitted my Technics EPC-U205 with Jico neo SAS. It sounds superb.
I have always had a niggling in the back of my mind about the Cat5 twisted pair cables used in my FH3s.
Last night I swapped it out for some 2.5mm OCC stranded cable. I really like the difference it has made to the presentation.
Now, do I dare ask the Mrs for a pair of Edingdales for my upcoming birthday?
I see Thakker now have stock of the Jico SAS for the EPC205, so I think I may buy one as a spare. It is a superb sounding combination for the money and makes me wonder about the need for expensive MC cartridges.
Nice on Kev. I am the
Same in that Ive finished my journey now. Thought I'd finished a few times but glad to say. Definitely finally.
Don't be too much of a stranger
+1, matey. Lots of folk have joined AoS, as digital fans, and embraced the joys of vinyl, quite simply because we're so passionate about it here, and there are numerous threads with great advice on how to do it well, so I guess it's inevitable that it rubs off on folk!:eyebrows:
Glad your journey is pretty much at an end. It's so important that there *is* and end goal in your journey, as otherwise the danger exists of simply becoming another unhealthy and endless box-swapper [as opposed to a healthy one like Jerry, but few manage the process as well as he does], and ultimately a 'hi-fi victim', chasing your tail and getting nowhere...
This hobby of ours should ALWAYS be more about the music than the boxes used, which should simply be a means to an end, so I'm glad you're 'there' now. I've been in that happy place now for some time, and it's a great place to be. 'Upgraditis' should be an officially recognised condition, and always guarded against!
Anyway, definitely don't be too much of a stranger, as you'll always be welcome here, and thanks again for all your valuable input, and help especially with the cables you've made up for others and myself.
À bientôt, mon ami!:cool:
Marco.
It's funny I typed this last year.
I find myself in a similar place now to be honest.
My priorities are changing as my daughter gets older, and I find I have less time to enjoy listening to music.
I would still like a new pair of speakers, but that is going to have to wait.
I am sure I will still pop in from time to time....
:wave:
hornucopia
21-11-2018, 18:55
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx33iwdS7ko
There's a song that fits 'upgradeitis' quite well!
Marco-you got it right (though I sold all my vinyl 2+ years ago....)
(-:
It's funny I typed this last year.
I find myself in a similar place now to be honest.
My priorities are changing as my daughter gets older, and I find I have less time to enjoy listening to music.
I would still like a new pair of speakers, but that is going to have to wait.
I am sure I will still pop in from time to time....
:wave:
So what has changed since 2018?
A new DAC, speakers, power amp, phono stage, some OCC speaker cable, a MI cartridge and an MC cartridge.
Most of this was brought on by CV-19 lockdowns.
I have also added a few Isopucks under the speakers and the valve gear, and recently upgraded my rack by adding some butchers blocks in place of the glass shelves.
It’s amazing what you can upgrade when you think you are done.
System now consists of:
Funkified SL1200
DIY built BB3 phono stage from BigBottle Audio.
Self built “Music” PC
RME ADI-2 DAC FS
Pioneer PD-S703 CD player (not sure why, as it hardly ever gets used)
Firebottle KIN pre amplifier with built in Phono stage
Neurochrome Modulus 686 power amp
Cables are all DIY assembled OCC of one flavour or another.
I should almost be done, but there is one more tweak arriving next week to what it does, if anything in my system.
Indeed, I thought I was at the end as well.
But in the last three months I have upgraded my Dac, added a streamer, changed USB/SPIDF, added BNZ cables, added amp footers, added some grounding plugs.
The constant are the speakers, amp, interconnects, power cables.
I have actually set myself a personal challenge for this year - not to buy any more HiFi.
Music is allowed.
The best part is that I have not told the wife, so if I crack, I don’t get earache….
I never, ever make New Years resolutions. Situations can change in the future, so unless it is something important like stopping smoking, carry on as you were.
I failed my challenge.
I have added a Topping Pre90 to my system. One came up at a price I could not refuse. The measurements look good.
My plan is to build myself a pre-amp using some Neurochrome boards, so before I committed to the project, I wanted to see how a good SS pre-amp would gel in my system.
I have also added a Sjostrom DCT-03 DC blocker in my Modulus 686 to remove the transformer hum, which is probably caused by my heat pump.
The system is sounding good. It is now very transparent, so I decided to see if the cost of OCC interconnects with pure copper plugs etc. is worth the cost. This little experiment is on going, and is likely to take a while.
And today I lost the captive lead (Mogami) from my SL1200.
I have fitted a 3D printed box, with some pure copper RCA sockets from WBT. These are connected to the internal tonearm PCB by some OCC wire. I have now added a Neotech OCC coax cable between the TT and phono stage, and I am happy with the result.
It took me a couple of hours to get it all done, but it was well worth it.
Rush2112
30-06-2022, 08:23
My Hi-Fi journey started realistically 40 years ago when I was a teenager able to work for serious pocket money whilst still living at home and going to college. That financial freedom gave me the purchasing power to invest in my first Hi-Fi system, Technics SLB2 turntable Grado FCE+ cartridge, Technics SU-V2 amplifier and original Mission 70 loudspeakers, this was before CD and a cassette deck was added a JVC KD-D4 for making those mandatory mix tapes for the Hitachi TRK 8080E Ghetto Blaster and the original Sony Walkman complete with additional battery pack and the orange foam earpads on the headphones !! Equipment has changed many, many times in the intervening 40 years and some memorable bits of kit were Celestion SL600 speakers and 6000 sub woofers, Alphason Sonata turntable with HRS100MCS arm and Audio Technica OC9 cartridge and the truly awesome Pink Triangle three box CD system of Cardinal transport, 24bit Da-Capo and DC power supply ! There were many other favourites but the over riding passion is the music and the now considerable LP and CD collection which every day I rediscover something new from. So never forget to sit back and enjoy !
As for the system now:
Source components: Pink Triangle Anniversary SE, SME V, Koetsu Rosewood Signature for Vinyl. Lyngdorf CD1 as Transport with Wadia 321 DAC
Amplification: Hi-Q Sound Iota Balanced Signature Reference mk2 Phono-stage Revised 2021, Krell KRC 3, Krell FPB 200c
Loudspeakers: Martin Logan Electromotion X and Sonus Faber Gravis Sub Woofer
Cables/stands: Transparent, DPA Black Slink, PS Audio, Atlas
Any other hi-fi bits: Moth RCM, AV system: Denon AVR 2310, Onkyo BD-SP809, Panasonic DMP-BDT180EB, Humax Aura, Samsung 49" LED 4K TV, Monitor Audio C300 Centre Channel, Q Acoustics 165P for rear channel. Logitech Harmony Remote.
30449304483044630447
Enossification
30-06-2022, 16:07
Nice thoughts, nice messages. I too have reached the end of the road. With regard to my sound system there is nowhere else I want to go. From now onwards it is only about music and the emotion it creates within.
I've not changed anything in a long time now, not felt the need. Went to that show the other week and the only thing appreciably better than what I have were the Kii3. It's a whole different approach though, and fifteen grand. Don't really want to spend that kind of money.
I will get a pair of tidy JBL L100 'Century' for the TV system. Just because I always wanted them as a teenager. Otherwise won't be changing anything in the main system until something dies.
The new pre-amp not arrived yet?
I was tempted to get a different pre, but I don’t think anything I want to,spend money on will “better” the Topping Pre90 for transparency.
At the end of the day, it is going to give the music a different flavour, but would it be better?
I have also had thoughts of trying an R2R DAC like the Gustard, but the price is a bit daft, and there is not a lot wrong with the RME.
So, the challenge for 2023 is to sit back and relax…..
I am done with cables. I have enough cartridges and valves to see me out. So fingers crossed, nothing breaks and I can spend money of the important stuff - more music…..
The new pre-amp not arrived yet?
…..
Yes got it a couple of weeks ago. Like you I've nowhere to go now but the speakers and they are good enough I'm planning to get a TEAC VRDS transport with the illuminated buttons, but only for the looks.
Pigmy Pony
30-11-2022, 15:05
Yes got it a couple of weeks ago. Like you I've nowhere to go now but the speakers and they are good enough I'm planning to get a TEAC VRDS transport with the illuminated buttons, but only for the looks.
You could get a little budget set up together for your office, and start a new upgrade path. Show the youngsters there just how good Heart 70s can sound :)
You could get a little budget set up together for your office, and start a new upgrade path. Show the youngsters there just how good Heart 70s can sound :)
would do only everything electrical in an office these days has to be pat tested for no real reason.
Pigmy Pony
01-12-2022, 07:16
And I bet it's about £20 per appliance. Pat must be raking it in ;)
would do only everything electrical in an office these days has to be pat tested for no real reason.Not if its brand new [emoji6]
How about battery powered?
Nothing much has changed in the system since I fitted the RCA box to my SL1200.
However, the weather is not great so I dusted off the valve “collection” and decided to see if I could find what works best in the BB3.
I was shocked to see I have acquired 8 complete sets, so this may take a while.
Always fun tube rolling and sometimes you just need a change!:)
I have found a combination that seems very pleasing.
Tungsram PCC88 with an early Tesla ECC83 foil getter. I am not sure if it is the best.
I still have a few combinations to try.
I am glad I bought them a few years ago, as prices seem to have gone silly.
Yes there is a lot more tube gear around and folk have discovered the significant benefits of NOS tubes.
stuartm1962
27-02-2023, 15:03
Have finished on the upgrade path too and sit back and enjoy the music.
Yes I could make small improvements, but it is on a sliding scale, pay thousands of pounds for a small increase in sound quality. My system now comprises PS Audio Dac/Transport, Unison Research Tube amp, Apogee speakers, with good quality cables all round. No idea which cables and no interest in finding out if there are better ones.
The biggest improvement I could make would be to use a different listening room, where the speakers had more room to breath, but also have a wife to consider :)
Firebottle
27-02-2023, 15:30
... where the speakers had more room to breath, but also have a wife to consider
What, you have to let the wife breath too? :lol:
You can only hold a Dutch oven for so long...
You can only hold a Dutch oven for so long...
ive got a sort of cast dutch oven lol.. and i cant carry it at all now. damn thing is heavy and i need at least one stick, so it doesnt get used...its really a casserole but its pretty big and would do same job. love enamel cast iron pans etc.
stuartm1962
27-02-2023, 16:22
Life would be hell otherwise :)
stuartm1962
27-02-2023, 16:24
What, you have to let the wife breath too? :lol:
Wife and the speakers, plus dog and cat :lol:
Pigmy Pony
27-02-2023, 17:19
What, you have to let the wife breath too? :lol:
:lol::lol::lol: I was just about to post exactly the same, you beat me to it :D
Today I added a Neotech Silver UPOCC USB cable I picked up on the French equivalent of GumTree.
I wasn’t expecting much as I was coming from a Supra USB cable, but there is a difference in sound which is pleasing to the ear.
I am surprised.
No, I have not done a blindfolded back to back. Life is too short for worrying about that.
I like it. I am happy….
Onwards and onward….
Good you are not just trying zillionth degree purity copper bollocks and have gone for something a little more interesting. I liked a bit of silver in some of my cables and some of the worlds top amplifiers and hifi gear use it in their construction.
If it sounds good to you that is all that matters.
Over the weekend, I came to the realisation that I have not tried my Cyrus CLS70 speakers with my Mod 686 amp.
I think I should give them a try, as it could be quite interesting.
If they don’t sound any better, then it may be time to sell the. Grus, as they are currently sat in their box.
And today I replaced my Mark Grant DSP mains cable with a Neotech OCC combination (plugs and cable).
This has go e on my BB3, so time will tell if I hear any difference.
And today, I fancied a change, so have fitted my Firebottle Kin preamplifier back into my system, replacing the Topping Pre90.
Half tempted to try the FH3s as well.
What else is there to do on a rainy Sunday?
I really should try and sell some of my old speakers. Having two spare sets is a bit much, and I can’t see any of my old speakers displacing the Traingles.
It has been an enjoyable day spinning vinyl, through the BB3, into the Kin.
It has a nice relaxed sound to the system with the Kin in place. Just right for a cold and wet day.
It has been an enjoyable day spinning vinyl, through the BB3, into the Kin.
It has a nice relaxed sound to the system with the Kin in place. Just right for a cold and wet day.
So is the BB3 much better than the KIN phono stage?
I didn’t listen to the phono stage in the Kin, so I cannot answer that one.
Alan has told me it the past that it is though.
I heard the KIN back at my house a few years back when we had a bake of against my Croft 25R.:)
Main reason I did not listen to it is that my phono cables are too short.
My minor intermittent hum has come back to my BB3.
I removed all of the internal ferrites, as they looked messy and it has made no difference - the hum got no worse.
One thing I did notice while I was in there was that there was a small white spot under one of the power capacitors on the bottom of the case.
As a precaution I have ordered some new Nichicon capacitors. I also took the opportunity to order a few sheets of Silent Coat 2mm damping sheet to use on the CD player, Phono Stage and amplifier.
I would probably put a bit in the Pre 90, if I could work out how to get the case apart. :scratch:
I rate the Silent Coat very highly.
I rate the Silent Coat very highly.
Same.
Anywhere I've used it its noticably improved sound, even in amps and other non-moving part gear.
Its well worth using and works great.
Tthe 4mm stuff is even more effective.
Same.
Anywhere I've used it its noticably improved sound, even in amps and other non-moving part gear.
Its well worth using and works great.
Tthe 4mm stuff is even more effective.
Probably worth trying in anything as even DACs are subject to vibration and I think SS amps benefit too. I use it particularly well in my Croft amps which have thin metal cases and lots of rattle glass bottles!:lol:
Great sounding biscuit tins tho!
Worked well in both my Dac and Preamp, as well as when modding a couple of disc spinners.
Interested to hear how Kevin gets on with his.
Yes it was a surprise for me.
It won't be going in the pre-amp.
I can't get the case off. It most have hidden screws under the feet.
CD player, Phono Stage and amp will be done. I bought three sheets (to the wind?).
The phono stage and CD will get the most attention.
Pigmy Pony
15-11-2023, 12:01
It won't be going in the pre-amp.
I can't get the case off. It most have hidden screws under the feet.
CD player, Phono Stage and amp will be done. I bought three sheets (to the wind?).
The phono stage and CD will get the most attention.
I'm wondering if this Silent Coat might help me...
There is a small amount of mechanical buzz comes from my Musical Fidelity A5 integrated (only audible when close to it, the buzz only comes from the unit, doesn't come from the speakers, and does not increase with volume). It's a common thing with these amps, where users suggest it may be a consequence of varying voltages.
Maybe Silent Coat could deaden the sound to some degree, what do you think?
sounds like the tx.. it might help a bit
I agree it sounds like you may have a slightly noisy transformer in your MF A5.
I'd consider trying a DC blocker. The Audiolab DC Block is pretty good, and I currently use one to cure a buzzing toroidal transformer in my set-up.
I'm wondering if this Silent Coat might help me...
There is a small amount of mechanical buzz comes from my Musical Fidelity A5 integrated (only audible when close to it, the buzz only comes from the unit, doesn't come from the speakers, and does not increase with volume). It's a common thing with these amps, where users suggest it may be a consequence of varying voltages.
Maybe Silent Coat could deaden the sound to some degree, what do you think?
If its buzzing, its vibrating!:lol:
I agree it sounds like you may have a slightly noisy transformer in your MF A5.
I'd consider trying a DC blocker. The Audiolab DC Block is pretty good, and I currently use one to cure a buzzing toroidal transformer in my set-up.
Cures the buzz but does it knacker the sound?
Pigmy Pony
15-11-2023, 13:50
Cures the buzz but does it knacker the sound?
Yes, I have read of some users have used DC blockers with some success, with others saying it killed the dynamics to some degree.
Pigmy Pony
15-11-2023, 14:01
If its buzzing, its vibrating!:lol:
'Buzzing' might not be the best description for the sound, but it is not like the kind of hum you might hear associated with earthing problems. In a phone conversation with John Sampson of JS Audio last year I mentioned it as an afterthought (it really doesn't bother me much) he just said something along the lines of 'very common, just one of those things'.
Still might be worth me trying this Silent Coat though.
Sorry about the thread hijack Kev. :)
'Buzzing' might not be the best description for the sound, but it is not like the kind of hum you might hear associated with earthing problems. In a phone conversation with John Sampson of JS Audio last year I mentioned it as an afterthought (it really doesn't bother me much) he just said something along the lines of 'very common, just one of those things'.
Still might be worth me trying this Silent Coat though.
Sorry about the thread hijack Kev. :)
I have 3 very buzzy toroids in my Croft amps which I can hear very clearly when up close. When I used Silent Coat on the cases there was a noticeable reduction in noise but also less vibration getting through to my valves. I should have had them ripped out and put in a separate box but alas Glenn is no longer with us sadly.
It is no coincidence that Glenn top of the range preamps were indeed two separate boxes with the rattly toroids separate from the rest of the delicate tubes.
Worth checking the central bolt in your toroid for tightness.
Sometimes just giving it a nip with a pair of pliers can solve buzz.
I've used silentcoat directly on transformers, didn't make it sound worse.
Avoid RF treatment around transformers though, found it kills the top end.
Built a DC blocker and fitted it to my balanced mains a while back?
Quickly removed it, as dynamics and air took a hit.
System dependant as usual of course, YMMV
'Buzzing' might not be the best description for the sound, but it is not like the kind of hum you might hear associated with earthing problems. In a phone conversation with John Sampson of JS Audio last year I mentioned it as an afterthought (it really doesn't bother me much) he just said something along the lines of 'very common, just one of those things'.
Still might be worth me trying this Silent Coat though.
Sorry about the thread hijack Kev. :)
No worries.
I built one of these https://sjostromaudio.com/pages/index.php/hifi-projects/187-dct03-the-dc-trap-high-end-style-heavy-duty into my Mod 686.
Does what it says on the tin.
I did try an external DC blocker first to see if it was DC related or pure mechanical hum.
Fortunately for me, it was DC related. My amp is now silent.
Cures the buzz but does it knacker the sound?
The Audiolab DC Block did not knacker the sound in my setup but of course YMMV. There are quite a lot of +ve reviews of the Audiolab on the Richer Sounds site: https://www.richersounds.com/audiolab-dc-block-black-sc.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA9dGqBhAqEiwAmRpTC6E_rw8Qv-wUp7gCTmF6sikjAK16lE_rZV6d-4Tbe24Y390H7_REcRoC0CUQAvD_BwE
But peakload is only 600 VA. With 800VA in my amp, it is simply not big enough.
I have just added a 375 x 250 x 2mm sheet of Silent Coat to my Big Bottle 3 phono stage, coating exposed areas of the internal case, so front panel, sides, lid, base and rear panel. Some panels have had more Silent Coat applied than others. I am really not expecting to hear a difference.
Tomorrow I will attack the CD player based on the instruction on the Lampizator website. If I am feeling strong, I will,do the amplifier as well, but that is mainly going to be the upper panel, which will probably take an entire sheet quite happily. Maybe I should have bought a few more….
I have just added a 375 x 250 x 2mm sheet of Silent Coat to my Big Bottle 3 phono stage, coating exposed areas of the internal case, so front panel, sides, lid, base and rear panel. Some panels have had more Silent Coat applied than others. I am really not expecting to hear a difference.
Tomorrow I will attack the CD player based on the instruction on the Lampizator website. If I am feeling strong, I will,do the amplifier as well, but that is mainly going to be the upper panel, which will probably take an entire sheet quite happily. Maybe I should have bought a few more….
You may end up taking some off as I found weirdly you can go too far!:eek: Will be interesting what you make of it Kev. It might be best to listen to your system a piece at a time rather than Silent Coat everything and then you will know wants contributing the biggest effect. Just a thought....
Surely damping the case is a good thing? It will cut down on vibrations, that could affect the delicate valves?
There is very little damping near the PCB.
Surely damping the case is a good thing? It will cut down on vibrations, that could affect the delicate valves?
There is very little damping near the PCB.
Yes of course damping the BB3 with valves in it should make a noticeable difference but I found if you completely coated the case it could dampen things down a bit too much. But personal listening experience is what matters.
I was just suggesting to try listening to your system after coating one piece of kit at a time so you can attribute differences or not?
Ah, understood. I have not completely covered the case, in fact there is not a single panel that has been covered 100%.
The plan for the CD player is to put a patch on the top part of the case. This is quite flimsy, and a little on the mechanism.
The 686 has a flimsy lid. The rest is pretty solid, and access is not great to the rest of it. I certainly don’t want to put any on the heat sinks.
Ah, understood. I have not completely covered the case, in fact there is not a single panel that has been covered 100%.
The plan for the CD player is to put a patch on the top part of the case. This is quite flimsy, and a little on the mechanism.
The 686 has a flimsy lid. The rest is pretty solid, and access is not great to the rest of it. I certainly don’t want to put any on the heat sinks.
I think your biggest bangs for bucks may come from the BB3 then maybe CDP. Even DACs can benefit as those clocks don't like vibration!:)
With Solid state gear (686) I think it is the caps that benefit from anti vibration. Some manufacturers are building amplifiers with panel structures that are anti vibration including Teac who do a lot on their CDT to stop vibration round the drawer mechanism.
If you take a scroll down this article you can read about capacitors and vibration.
https://eepower.com/technical-articles/vibration-proof-capacitor-technology/#
Damping capacitors is another tweak that works, I did several before and after comparisons modding different pieces of kit, all improved the sound.
Heat Sinks?
Dont be too fast to dismiss damping them Kev, you obviously dont want to stop them functioning put a small piece on top can alter its resonant frequency, which can made a change to the sound.
Worked to good effect in my Oppo and Audiolab players.
Yes,
Its a bit of a rabbit hole, and sorta easy to dismiss, but vibration is worth making the effort to mitigate.
Just depends how far you want to take it I guess?
In my opinion, its worth doing a deep-dive on this stuff, it really works.
To James’ point about OVERdampening:
Yes, you can do that, but not for the obvious reason?
Once top level vibrations are damped, going further its about changing the resonant frequency (vibration) and that can interact with something else giving a less preferred effect.
Think of applying a damping sheet to the underside of a turntable plinth…. Would change SOMETHING in the sound, right?
Would you prefer it though?
Apply the Tweak, listen and compare, keep if you like it.
Job done. Move on to the next one.
:thumbsup:
Job is done.
I actually had 4 sheets, so the BB3, CD player and 686 have been done.
Having checked the specs of the silent coat, it seems safe enough to use on the 686 heatsinks, so a strip was fitted on both.
The lid and base have been done, as were the front panel, and a few small bits fitted on the rear panel, as there was not much room here.
I have turned the system on, and a) it still work, b) it still sounds good.
Was it with it? Not at the listening levels I use when the family is home, as there is very little sound pressure to cause vibrations.
When they go out, I will wind the wick up a bit.
Job is done.
I actually had 4 sheets, so the BB3, CD player and 686 have been done.
Having checked the specs of the silent coat, it seems safe enough to use on the 686 heatsinks, so a strip was fitted on both.
The lid and base have been done, as were the front panel, and a few small bits fitted on the rear panel, as there was not much room here.
I have turned the system on, and a) it still work, b) it still sounds good.
Was it with it? Not at the listening levels I use when the family is home, as there is very little sound pressure to cause vibrations.
When they go out, I will wind the wick up a bit.
Keep us posted.
Pigmy Pony
18-11-2023, 14:39
A question:
While heat sinks are responsible for the lion's share of heat dissipation, some of this heat will also be lost through the casework. If the amp's case feels warm to the touch when in use, this must mean that some of the heat escapes this way. In which case applying the silent coat may be insulating the amp to some degree?
A question:
While heat sinks are responsible for the lion's share of heat dissipation, some of this heat will also be lost through the casework. If the amp's case feels warm to the touch when in use, this must mean that some of the heat escapes this way. In which case applying the silent coat may be insulating the amp to some degree?
think the 'to some degree' is the point. the heat syncs should dispose of the vast proportion of it. heat syncs no doubt are bolted to the case so will heat up a bit, but the case is big enough to stay just warm with the air around it
Agreed - the sound deadening material is, I assume, applied to the inside of the case.
There's going to be some insulation effect from lining the inside of a case, I don't see how there can't be. Whether it will raise the internal temperature enough to reduce the service life of the components inside I don't know.
Putting it on a heatsink is inevitably going to reduce its ability to dissipate heat, again hard to say if that would eventually cause a problem.
The heatsink forms part of the case.
It looks a bit like this - https://www.audiophonics.fr/12611-thickbox_default/hifi-2000-heatsink-case-4u-400mm-front-4mm-black.jpg
Adding a small strip of the Silent coat to the internal face of the heatsink is going to have very little affect on the operating temperature of my amp.
There are holes in the top that will vent the case, and the fins on the side will have a better dissipation affect than the vertical inner surface of the heatsink.
The main source of heat will be the output devices.
The heat from them is largely conducted to the fins of the heat sink where it is dissipated by convection (and to a smaller extent by radiation).
Any radiant heat produced within the case is in turn dissipated by radiation and convection from the exterior of the case. All the sound deadening material will do is to absorb the heat which will eventually be conducted through and dissipated from the exterior of the case.
Pigmy Pony
18-11-2023, 15:59
The main source of heat will be the output devices.
The heat from them is largely conducted to the fins of the heat sink where it is dissipated by convection (and to a smaller extent by radiation).
Any radiant heat produced within the case is in turn dissipated by radiation and convection from the exterior of the case. All the sound deadening material will do is to absorb the heat which will eventually be conducted through and dissipated from the exterior of the case.
Well this Silent Coat does look rather like that stuff people put behind their radiators to reflect heat back into the room, but at the end of the day I trust you guys' judgement on this more than my own :)
So it will reflect heat back into the heatsink and make the amp cooler? :thumbsup:
As the amp does not run hot, I don't think it is an issue.
So it will reflect heat back into the heatsink and make the amp cooler? :thumbsup:
As the amp does not run hot, I don't think it is an issue.
it shouldnt do much really. the fans may cool more slowly but it wont be an issue unless it runs very hot, in which case i wouldnt advise it.. ie, on a mf a1000.... that amp doesnt look to be a hotty
I shouldn't think it would effect at 686 -they don't run that hot and there is lots of room int the case. Unless its running a lot of the time in Class A which it probably doesn't as it is a Class A-B amp.
The 686 case barely gets warm to the touch, even when being on for a complete day.
With the wick turned up, vinyl replay sounds a bit clearer now. I suppose that the Herbie’s tube dampers and the Silent coat have helped reduce vibrations.
Today, I fancied a change, so I swapped my Topping Pre90 out for my Firebottle KIN.
Vinyl is still very enjoyable to listen to.
I still need to put my RME DAC back in, and have a listen to the digital side.
After about an hour of listening, I think I want to change my pre.
Ideally for a hybrid pre like the KIN, but with balanced inputs/outputs and remote source selection and volume control.
I think I prefer this sound the the Pre90, which I have been using for a long time.
Interesting stuff Kevin,
Alan's gear is top notch, not surprised your enjoying it so much.
Had his phono stage a few years back, it sounded terrific.
My experience is that a good Pre can make a big difference sound wise?
None of that "straight wire with gain" nonsense. :)
I've been running the Pre90 for a few Months in my system as well, and been very impressed by it.
Well... for all the "Hifi" reasons anyway?
It replaced my PS Audio BHK preamp (Im a sucker for a "Giant Killer") and whilst I enjoyed the lack of slight valve background hiss (probably cos the gain structure of my setup) the Pre90 was no where near as "real"sounding and emotionally impactful.
Thats what I look for in a system.
The Toppings very clear with literally zero background noise...sure, but after some months with it now, I feel theres something "missing", or more likely "added" and off about its sound, at least in my System.
I initially thought it might be that it was so "technically correct" it wasn't adding any of its own euphonic flavour like a lot of Pre's do?
But its not that.
Its not clinical sounding either, exactly, but I'm more aware now with the Pre90 and the new Dac having ran in more from new, that it puts a bit of a "cold sheen" over the music.. I'd liken it to adding a sharpness filter to a Jpeg image?
Technically it hits the marks with low SINAD and such, but theres definately something missing and an artificial aspect to its sound.
Its missing the magic sauce, basically, and shows that measurements arent the be all and end all.
Theres better out there,sure, but for the spend its OUTSTANDING.
Took a punt on it, but its flavour doesn't suit my likes/system... wish it would have taken £600 to tick that box but sadly not.
Think its a nested feedback Op-Amp based design, and I've found with some kit in the past that can add an artificial flavour to the sound.
Dunno, no expert, I just hear what I hear.
Synergy is everything, so just in my system to my ears.
Worth noting though that some folks reckon the Pre90 goes head to head with the much more expensive Benchmark LA4, so its obviously not a mediocre amp.
So Im moving on from the Pre90 as well.
Its a great amp but feel its holding my system back, especially in the areas that give me the fizz.
I'm missing what the PS Audio BHK Pre brought to the table, but dont miss the slight valve hiss.
Fantastic value though, and easily expandable with an additional well priced add on box if you need more inputs.
Good to be able to swap back and forth between pre's Kevin, see where your mood takes you at the time! :)
The Topping's only real fault is low input impedance, especially with the balanced inputs (2Kohm) and the unbalanced is still only 9.6kohm.
So if your source does not have low output impedance frequency response is going to skew off downwards especially with balanced connection.
The Benchmark is much more compatible in that regard (80Kohm balanced and 37Kohm unbalanced).
I don't know if this is the reason why you both seem slightly dissatisfied with the Topping, but there it is. Maybe look at the output impedance of your DACs and phono stages. If you're going in balanced you want them to be less than 200 ohm.
The Dacs output impedance is around 27.5 Ohms, so pretty low?
Its just a system sound preference thing with me I think.
I plumbed the BHK pre back in to confirm the sound change and yup, the "magic" came back.
Confirmed that Pre amps can make a difference...again.
The Dacs output impedance is around 27.5 Ohms, so pretty low?
Its just a system sound preference thing with me I think.
I plumbed the BHK pre back in to confirm the sound change and yup, the "magic" came back.
Confirmed that Pre amps can make a difference...again.
Yes should not be any issue there. You must just like those noisy valves ;)
I like the sound of valves gently hissing as it lets me know my amp is on!:)
I couldnt live with the hiss nowadays!
The BHK brought the magic, but also the hiss.
Happy to have tried valves in my system, but glad to be rid.
Been there, enjoyed it but moved on.
Funny how your tastes change as you bounce along the Hifi highway, good (and silent!) solid state is where its at for me now.
My listening room is long enough that I am so far away from my speakers I can’t hear the hiss. Must admit solid state usually sounds cleaner but sometimes at the expense of that magic sauce!
My vintage Sony pre-amp is probably some way off today's state of the art for SNR and its 35 year old DAC certainly is but it doesn't seem to hold back the sound quality any.
My vintage Sony pre-amp is probably some way off today's state of the art for SNR and its 35 year old DAC certainly is but it doesn't seem to hold back the sound quality any.
Measurements Smeasurements... only part of the picture!
Its a funny old game this. :)
Measurements Smeasurements... only part of the picture!
Its a funny old game this. :)
It only has to be better than my hearing is...
sorry... what?
Could you speak up a bit?
I couldnt live with the hiss nowadays!
The BHK brought the magic, but also the hiss.
Happy to have tried valves in my system, but glad to be rid.
Been there, enjoyed it but moved on.
Funny how your tastes change as you bounce along the Hifi highway, good (and silent!) solid state is where its at for me now.
I have valves in my dac and the pre amp part of my integrated amp but I cannot hear any hiss.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Ali Tait
30-08-2025, 23:46
Same, valves in pre, CD player and phono stage but no hiss.
I have seen a ModWright LS36.5 which has tempted me.
How can I tell if that will be a good match with my Neurochrome Modulus 686?
Firebottle
31-08-2025, 07:00
The ModWright uses output transformers for the balanced output with an output impedance of 110 ohms.
That will be no problem with driving the Neurochrome.
Thanks Alan.
I still need to get approval from SWMBO.
It is just a shame I missed out on a motorised SA for my KIN a few years ago.
SWMBO has said yes.
The only thing holding me back now is a silver pre in a black system….
You snooze, you lose.
It is already reserved.
Ali Tait
31-08-2025, 10:27
My phono stage is Modwright, nice bit of kit and well built.
So my search for second hand preamps goes on.
The Electrocompaniet EC4.8 - is it any good?
My only experience of Electrocompaniet was with their debut 'The Two Channel Amplifier', a largely class A amplifier of 25W which I used to drive Quad ESL-57 speakers. They were superb!
Since then Electrocompaniet have enlarged their range of audio components and at the same time greatly improved quality of construction and cosmetics.
The EC4.8 gets several favourable reviews, and despite now being discontinued is available used for a reasonable price.
If I was looking for an elegant, slim and good looking dual mono preamp, supporting balanced-line circuitry, I would definitely give the EC4.8 consideration.
Looking around for good second hand preamps, and a Pass Labs X2.5 has popped up.
Is this going to sound much different from the Topping Pre90?
Looking around for good second hand preamps, and a Pass Labs X2.5 has popped up.
Is this going to sound much different from the Topping Pre90?
Based on nothing really but you might want to check it out. Systems I have heard that used it have quite impressed me.
Ali Tait
02-09-2025, 10:37
Agreed, Pass gear is very good.
+1 from me as well. Whilst I have absolutely no experience of Pass gear, I do have enormous respect for Nelson Pass's designs, especially some of his more recent 'minimalist' designs which are elegant, simple and low power, suitable for high efficiency speakers.
Regarding the Pass Labs X2.5 amplifier, this was discussed on the Forum way back in 2018: https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?59351-PassLabs-x2-5-pre-amp; sadly coming to no firm conclusion (which is only to be expected on a subjectivist forum), but you might find the posts interesting.
Thanks.
I had found that post.
The thing that puts me off the X2.5 is that it is an always on design, so if it has not been recapped, it is likely that it will be required soon.
Has anybody got any experience of Atoll?
I have spotted an ex-demo PR300 Evo that looks good.
I watched an interesting review by iiWi on an Audio Invader preamp.
Looks interesting.
I cannot see many mainstream reviews of it.
As I am now using my Firebottle Kin again, I have decided to try a bit of valve rolling on the line stage, and as PCC85 valves are dit cheap, I have a RTC which arrived today, which is a Philips Heerlen made valve.
Later this week a Tungsram is arriving, along with a spare La Radiotechnique 12AX7S that I found for a good price.
My thoughts are turning to see if I can modify my Kin, possibly in two steps.
Step 1 - remote Khozmo SA. I can’t remember if there will be space to fit one.
Step 2 - Neurochrome buffer to give me a balanced output
Much more research will be needed, and step 2 is not 100% required, and my 686 will run on SE inputs.
I did not do any of the above.
I decided to ask Gemini what preamplifiers would be a good match for a Modulus 686.
The best match of preamplifiers that I have been looking at in my upgrade budget, second hand, seems to be the Audio Research SP16L.
I was quite surprised. All of the ones I have seen seem to be silver.
I am also not sure that I want to go for a preamp with 3 x 12ax7 valves.
They are getting expensive.
I wonder about valve pre-amps and what the point is. Sure they can sound different but is it not just the higher output impedance?
At the phono stage bake-off years ago now we had a KIN pre-amp, but with my power amp and speakers. I took a CD player along which we put in during the lunch break and it was a bit grainy which it wasn't in my full system at home. Vinyl sounded great though, couldn't fault it.
Can see the point of valves in a phono stage as you can get gain without adding noise, or something like that. But elsewhere, no.
Another preamp I spotted is a Primare Pre32.
It looks interesting, as it has balanced outputs and inputs as well as RCA.
Quite tempted by it to be honest, although it may not be much different to the Topping Pre90 sound wise?
I also looked at building a Neurochrome pre, but Inthink that will be quite expensive, as I need two universal buffers.
More investigation is required.
Hey Kevin I have heard the Atoll in80 and IN300EVO and they sounded excellent. The 300 EVO had lovely big and detailed soundstage. I presume the PR300 EVO is very similar to the IN300EVO as a stand alone Preamp. Can't say anything bad about the 2 amps I heard and in fact I am nearly in the position to buy one but may go for the IN200EVO.
The PR300 EVO is a bit more than I want to spend.
From the reviews I have read, it does sound promising.
I suppose I could start saving up for one.
And here is what Gemini says:
Both the Primare PRE32 and the Atoll PR300 Evolution are high-quality balanced preamps, but they offer distinct engineering philosophies. For the Neurochrome Modulus-686, which is a "benchmark" level amplifier in terms of transparency, the choice depends on whether you want to maintain that clinical precision or add a bit of French "character."
Comparison at a Glance
| Feature | Primare PRE32 | Atoll PR300 Evolution |
|---|---|---|
| Circuitry | Fully Balanced, Discrete Gain Stage | Fully Balanced Dual-Mono, Class A |
| THD + N | < 0.003% | 0.005% |
| Output Impedance | 110 \Omega (Excellent for 686) | ~ low (XLR is a new feature) |
| Volume Control | NJW1195 (Resistor ladder) | Switched Resistor Attenuator |
| Sound Profile | Precise, Clean, Scandinavian neutrality | Warm, Dynamic, Organic (Class A) |
| Best For | Accuracy & Detail retrieval | Musicality & Midrange "texture" |
1. Primare PRE32: The Logic Choice
The PRE32 is the safer "technical" match for a Neurochrome build. Primare’s design philosophy mirrors Tom Christiansen’s: low noise, ultra-short signal paths, and high bandwidth.
* The Synergy: Because the Modulus-686 has a very low distortion floor, the PRE32’s DC-coupled signal path (no capacitors to smear the sound) ensures you aren't introducing phase shift or coloration.
* The Benefit: It features a highly precise OLED display and an excellent resistor-ladder volume control that maintains perfect channel balance even at whisper-quiet levels—essential for high-sensitivity speakers.
2. Atoll PR300 Evolution: The Musical Choice
The "Evolution" (EVO) series is a significant step up from the older Signature line, specifically because Atoll moved to a fully symmetrical dual-mono structure with a stepped-resistor attenuator.
* The Synergy: The PR300 EVO uses Pure Class A bipolar transistors with very low feedback. This provides a slightly "meatier" sound than the Primare. If you find the Modulus-686 too "analytical" or "dry," the Atoll will add a sense of three-dimensional space and organic warmth.
* The Benefit: The massive filtering capacity (92,843 \mu F) gives it incredible dynamic headroom. It will make the Modulus-686 feel punchier in the mid-bass compared to the more "polite" Primare.
Which one should you pick?
* Choose the Primare PRE32 if you listen to complex orchestral works or high-resolution studio recordings where you want to hear every micro-detail and the exact "air" of the room. It stays out of the way of the Modulus-686.
* Choose the Atoll PR300 Evolution if you primarily listen to vocals, jazz, or rock and want the system to feel "alive" and slightly more forward. The Class A output stage is a classic pairing for ultra-clean solid-state amps like the 686.
Technical Note: Both units have XLR outputs. Use them. The Modulus-686 is a differential (balanced) design; using the RCA outputs of either preamp would bypass the 686's best feature: its ability to cancel common-mode noise.
Would you like me to check the secondary market prices for these units to see which offers better value right now?
The Primare is less than half the cost of the Atoll.
Interestingly, Gemini also states that the Topping Pre90 is good with the 686, but I think it is too clean.
I guess I need to swap the Pre90 back in again.
And here is what Gemini says:
The Primare is less than half the cost of the Atoll.
Interestingly, Gemini also states that the Topping Pre90 is good with the 686, but I think it is too clean.
I guess I need to swap the Pre90 back in again.
Not sure I have heard Primare but I have a feeling the Atoll maybe a warmer/fuller sound which would be a good thing with the 686 which I have heard in my system. I think the 686 sounds better paired with a juicier preamp.:)
I think I agree.
There is a dealer in Toulouse that sells Atoll.
I was hoping to get one second hand, but that may not be possible.
I think I agree.
There is a dealer in Toulouse that sells Atoll.
I was hoping to get one second hand, but that may not be possible.
If you are looking for a big soundstage with good detail this is where the Atoll amps excel. Fantastic build quality too. Buying in France should be a sure bet and if it doesn't work out easy to sell on over there I would have thought?
The search is on hold.
I thought I had a maintenance contract on my car, but it appears it was stopped, so I just received a bigger bill than expected at the garage. :(
And there is more to come, as the SOS has developed a malfuntion, and the computer will need to be replaced.
New cars are great when they are working.
The search is on hold.
I thought I had a maintenance contract on my car, but it appears it was stopped, so I just received a bigger bill than expected at the garage. :(
And there is more to come, as the SOS has developed a malfuntion, and the computer will need to be replaced.
New cars are great when they are working.
Ahhh, cars are always a worry and as we found out recently a money pit!
Hope its not too expensive to fix!
Not too expensive.
The computer broke in the warranty period. Just need to have the argument about who pays for it now.
After a small period with the Kin, I have put the Pre90 back in.
Streaming Wheels turn beneath my feet 2, and it sounds awesome.
I also did a little tidying up in my Modulus 686 today.
A few years ago, I fitted a DC blocker, and used the same method as I did when I built the amp to raise the PCB above the transformers.
As I did not have any stand offs long enough, I screwed several together. Recently I took some proper measurements, and replaced the stand offs with one piece items of the correct length. This allowed me to locate the DC blocker better than it was fitted before.
31691
It looks tight, but there is a gap between the PCBs.
I have been playing with Gemini again.
The Firebottle KIN is a fascinating alternative because it leans into a different design philosophy than the Atoll or Primare. It is a boutique, high-performance solid-state preamplifier (often associated with Alan Firebottle) known for its "valve-like" presentation despite being solid-state.
Given your setup with the BigBottle 3 and the Neurochrome 686, here is how the KIN changes the math:
1. The Sonic "Bridge"
The KIN is often praised for having an exceptionally smooth, non-fatiguing top end.
* The Synergy: Your RME ADI-2 and Modulus 686 are both ultra-high-precision, low-distortion devices. The KIN acts as a "buffer" that adds a sense of naturalness and "bloom" without the maintenance or noise floor issues of a full tube preamp.
* Vs. Atoll/Primare: It is more "soulful" than the Primare and arguably more transparent than the Atoll. It sits in a sweet spot where it doesn't sound "mushy" but removes the "solid-state glare."
2. Matching with the BigBottle 3
Since the KIN and the BigBottle 3 often share a design heritage or community (the DIY/boutique British hi-fi scene), they are practically made for each other.
* Impedance: The KIN has a high input impedance, which is perfect for the BigBottle 3’s tube output. You won’t lose any of that lush analog bass.
* Coherency: Using the KIN with the BB3 creates a very coherent "analog front end" that will make your vinyl setup sound massive.
3. The "Gain" Factor (26dB Modulus 686)
The Firebottle KIN is a high-headroom preamp.
* The Challenge: Like the Primare, the KIN can have quite a bit of gain. With a 26dB power amp, you might find the volume gets loud very quickly.
* The Solution: If you go with a KIN, check if it has the internal gain jumpers or if it’s the version with the stepped attenuator. A stepped attenuator is highly recommended for your sensitive 686 to ensure perfect channel balance at low volumes.
KIN vs. The Others
| Preamp | Personality | Why choose it for your system? |
|---|---|---|
| Firebottle KIN | Organic, wide soundstage, "valve-like" | To maximize the "magic" of your BigBottle 3 phono stage. |
| Atoll PR300 Evo | Punchy, Class A, modern | For a more "dynamic" and rhythmic presentation with a warranty. |
| Primare Pre32 | Neutral, detailed, feature-rich | If you want the RME’s precision to stay 100% untouched. |
| Topping Pre90 | Clinical, transparent | If you only care about measurements (but beware the BB3 mismatch). |
Final Thought
If you can get your hands on a Firebottle KIN, it is arguably the most "audiophile" choice of the bunch. It was designed by someone who understands the "BigBottle" sound signature perfectly. It will turn your Neurochrome 686 from a "high-tech tool" into a "musical instrument."
Would you like me to check the specific output impedance of the KIN to see how well it will drive the long cable runs if your amp is far from your rack?
Gemini suggests I do nothing...
Isn't it great that we now have a tool that can collect together all the bollocks ever posted on the internet and distil it down into one bite-size chunk?
What did we ever do without it?
Isn't it great that we now have a tool that can collect together all the bollocks ever posted on the internet and distil it down into one bite-size chunk?
What did we ever do without it?
:lol:
That is what I was thinking, but the ability to drag up information posted across the Internet is impressive.
Not too expensive.
The computer broke in the warranty period. Just need to have the argument about who pays for it now.
Good news is that it is a 50/50 split, which seems reasonable.
Pigmy Pony
10-03-2026, 10:22
Isn't it great that we now have a tool that can collect together all the bollocks ever posted on the internet and distil it down into one bite-size chunk?
What did we ever do without it?
Don't know, but I've just had a quick chat with Gemini, and he seems like a thoroughly decent chap.
I asked him whether at 68 years old, is it worth me chucking £2k on new speakers, or would my money be better spent on a funeral plan? His reply was that based on average life expectancy I should get around 7,000 days of "enhanced atmosphere, music and clarity". Whereas £2k wouldn't even get me a bog basic funeral. Pretty much my thoughts too :)
Sounds like a "win" from Gemini.
What did the wife say?
Did you ask Gemini the best way to tell the Mrs?
Only problem is can gemini hear?
Don't know, but I've just had a quick chat with Gemini, and he seems like a thoroughly decent chap.
I asked him whether at 68 years old, is it worth me chucking £2k on new speakers, or would my money be better spent on a funeral plan? His reply was that based on average life expectancy I should get around 7,000 days of "enhanced atmosphere, music and clarity". Whereas £2k wouldn't even get me a bog basic funeral. Pretty much my thoughts too :)
Like that bird on the telly's dad, he probably hates how expensive funerals have become.
Only problem is can gemini hear?
I am only using Gemini for a bit of fun.
Ask it about the firebottle kin, and it is clear that the info is dragged up from HiFi forums.
What was more fun was asking Gemini about Macca, Jimbo, Pygmy Poney and myself.
I know it got information about me slightly wrong, but it was amusing/interesting nonetheless.
What was more fun was asking Gemini about Macca, Jimbo, Pygmy Poney and myself.
.
I'm surprised that didn't break it.
Pigmy Pony
10-03-2026, 16:05
What was more fun was asking Gemini about Macca, Jimbo, Pygmy Poney and myself.
I know it got information about me slightly wrong, but it was amusing/interesting nonetheless.
As you'd spelled the first part of my name correctly (unlike me), and the second part wrongly, you will have confused Gemini no end, and so any bad things he said about me will be untrue ;)
That is because the autocorrect is set to French.
On The Art of Sound (AoS), Pigmy Pony (often just "Pony") is a well-known member of the community, though unlike Macca, he is recognized more as a regular contributor than an admin.
Here is what defines his presence on the forum:
Community Standing
* Long-term Member: He has been a fixture of the AoS community for over a decade.
* Helpful & Pragmatic: He is generally regarded as a helpful, "no-nonsense" member. While he participates in the technical side of the hobby, his posts often carry a dry wit and a grounded perspective on gear.
* Music Enthusiast: Like many on AoS, he isn't just a "box swapper"; he is frequently seen in the music-specific subforums discussing his latest vinyl or digital finds.
Audio Gear & Interests
* Classic & British Hi-Fi: His tastes tend to lean towards classic British engineering. He has shared a fair amount of insight over the years regarding Naim equipment and vintage speakers.
* DIY & Maintenance: He is active in threads involving equipment maintenance and "faffing" with setups to get them sounding just right without spending a fortune.
Interaction Style
If Macca is the "law and order" of the forum, Pigmy Pony represents the typical enthusiast—opinionated but friendly. He often engages in the "Gallery" section where members show off their listening rooms.
Would you like me to see if I can find the specific details of his current Hi-Fi setup or his recent "New Album" recommendations?
Pigmy Pony
10-03-2026, 16:21
After asking about "Macca and his Krell", where Gemini informed me that Paul McCartney loves the way his Krell drives his B&W 800s, and later being told about CageyH's Graham Slee connections, and status as a "loan coordinator" (lend me £2k Kevin, I can pay you back 2 quid a week), I asked about Pigmy Pony and was told
https://gemini.google.com/app/e6e21e5ad91dbca5?is_sa=1&is_sa=1&android-min-version=301356232&ios-min-version=322.0&campaign_id=bkws&utm_source=sem&utm_medium=paid-media&utm_campaign=bkws&pt=9008&mt=8&ct=p-growth-sem-bkws&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21015480382&gbraid=0AAAAApk5BhkHmVVOIyhk5CnhsFII6VE5w&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgr_NBhDFARIsAHiUWr62Vrg1inxNBZRuar26 JAbXROws4hIyIu1S-kFU9sd_K1Z7r7Qka5AaAlBcEALw_wcB#:~:text=Pigmy%20Po ny%20is,W%20800D%20speakers.
Clearly Gemini is learning from previous enquiries then filling in the gaps by making up stuff. Entertaining 10 minutes though.
I wonder what "Gemini" says about me?
I would say you are a wine connoisseur with an interest in audio or is it the other way round?:lol:
I wonder what "Gemini" says about me?
As you asked...
If you are a regular on The Art of Sound (AoS) forum, "Barry" (often posting under the username Barry) is one of the most recognizable and respected figures in that community. He is a long-standing Administrator and one of the site's most prolific technical contributors.
Here is a breakdown of what makes Barry a central figure in the AoS community:
1. Technical Authority and Expertise
Barry is widely regarded as the forum’s resident expert on technical specifications and engineering. While many hi-fi forums lean heavily into subjective "voodoo," Barry is known for bringing a grounded, objective perspective.
* The "Library" of Knowledge: He often provides detailed historical and technical data on vintage equipment, particularly cartridges, tonearms, and classic British audio gear.
* Measurement-Led: He frequently emphasizes the importance of specifications (like capacitance and impedance matching) while still maintaining a love for the "art" of listening.
2. Audio Preferences
His personal taste leans toward high-quality engineering and "classic" high-end audio. Notable interests include:
* Direct Drive Turntables: Like many on AoS, he has a deep appreciation for high-end Japanese direct-drive decks (like the Technics SL-1200 series) and the engineering behind them.
* Cartridges: He has extensive experience with a vast array of moving coil (MC) and moving magnet (MM) cartridges, often helping users match them to the correct tonearm mass.
* Vintage Gear: He has a particular fondness for well-engineered legacy brands like Quad, SME, and Denon.
3. Moderation Style
As an administrator, Barry is known for being:
* Gentlemanly: He maintains a very polite, "old school" tone that defines much of The Art of Sound’s culture.
* Low-Tolerance for "Snark": He is part of the team that ensures the forum remains a "no-conflict" zone, often stepping in to de-escalate heated debates between "subjectivists" and "objectivists."
* Welcoming: He is almost always one of the first people to greet new members in the "Welcome" section, often asking them about their specific gear and musical tastes.
4. His Role in the Community
Beyond just technical advice, Barry is seen as the "steady hand" of the forum alongside other key figures like Marco (the forum owner). If you have a question about the effective mass of a 1970s tonearm or the loading requirements of an obscure cartridge, Barry is usually the person the community tags for an answer.
Would you like me to look up specific technical advice Barry has given on a certain piece of gear, or are you trying to get in touch with him on the forum?
Gosh! I almost wish now I hadn't asked, reading what Gemini has said has given me an over-sized ego! :eek:
It is amazing, if not worrying, what AI can do. However one thing AI, in my experience, can't do is help with cryptic (or even easy) crosswords - I have yet to see it provide the correct answer to any clue. :doh:
hifi_dave
11-03-2026, 16:30
Gosh! I almost wish now I hadn't asked, reading what Gemini has said has given me an over-sized ego! :eek:
It is amazing, if not worrying, what AI can do. However one thing AI, in my experience, can't do is help with cryptic (or even easy) crosswords - I have yet to see it provide the correct answer to any clue. :doh:
:youtheman:
Not too expensive.
The computer broke in the warranty period. Just need to have the argument about who pays for it now.
As Skoda are paying a chunk of the repair cost, I decided that life is too short and bought the 2nd hand Primare Pre32.
It is a well built Class A pre amp, which is what I was looking for.
I decided that the Atoll was too expensive, as I want to buy a robot mower this year, so I have more time to listen to music, instead of cutting the grass.
I want to buy a robot mower this year, so I have more time to listen to music, instead of cutting the grass.
Don't you have children which can be pressed into service for that?
Asking my 10 year old daughter to cut the grass for 2.5 hours a week is pushing the boundaries.
My mower is 18 years old, so it is not going to last forever, and you still need a proper mower for the first cut of the year.
The size and geography of the terrain, will dictate the power and navigational sophistication of the robot mower to be used. Kevin hints that the robot mower he needs will be expensive, suggesting that the area to be cut/mown is large.
It could be that to press his children into mowing the grass for him, Kevin may have to pay/bribe them, collectively for more than the cost of the mower. :D
Asking my 10 year old daughter to cut the grass for 2.5 hours a week is pushing the boundaries.
My mower is 18 years old, so it is not going to last forever, and you still need a proper mower for the first cut of the year.
I was doing it from age six. Although it wasn't a big lawn, about 25 foot by 25. No power mower though had to push it along, and rake up the cuttings since my father had got the mower for free off a neighbour but the collector had been lost.
I think I was about 14 before my old man sprung for a hover mower.
In the summer of '77 we killed all the grass playing football on it. My father was working overseas and my mother would not stop going on about how angry he would be when he got back. So I dug up the whole thing and re-seeded it. I was 8 years old.
My grandad came over and said 'The birds will eat all that seed' and showed me to make some bird scarers by putting aluminium foil on sticks and dotting them round the lawn. Showed me mind, didn't offer to help me do it. Lawn did mostly grow back in time.
Roughly 1.25 acres to mow.
I do the wooded area with a brush cutter.
The latest generation of mower have LiDar + cameras, so no longer need to rely on GPS.
I am looking at a Segway Navimow X450 - about €3k.
The problem of my daughter cutting the grass is that she is not heavy enough for the security device in the seat, so the blades don't turn and the motor cuts out.
The problem of my daughter cutting the grass is that she is not heavy enough for the security device in the seat, so the blades don't turn and the motor cuts out.
Easy solved - a Bergen with some weights in it. :)
You have a ride on mower, they make grass cutting fun. Mate of mine bought a house with a huge garden probably half an acre. He was ecstatic that it gave him a reason to buy a ride on. If my dad had one when we were kids me and my brothers would have been fighting each other to get to use it.
I have to say I don't know anyone who's tried those robot mowers who rates it at all. Maybe they've got better recently.
Pigmy Pony
18-03-2026, 15:34
The size and geography of the terrain, will dictate the power and navigational sophistication of the robot mower to be used. Kevin hints that the robot mower he needs will be expensive, suggesting that the area to be cut/mown is large.
It could be that to press his children into mowing the grass for him, Kevin may have to pay/bribe them, collectively for more than the cost of the mower. :D
What, you're supposed to feed them and pay them? What's the world coming to? But then again, showing them that a robot can do the job better and more cheaply than them might be just the thing to get them to y'know, buck their ideas up ;)
The advantage of a robot mower is it cuts the grass when I take my three week holiday, and never complains.
If I do all of the grass (1.25 acres on the mower, a little less than 0.75 in the woods) I have about a full day of work ahead of me.
Roughly 1.25 acres to mow.
I do the wooded area with a brush cutter.
The latest generation of mower have LiDar + cameras, so no longer need to rely on GPS.
I am looking at a Segway Navimow X450 - about €3k.
Wow - that's a lawn!
The garden of my parent's home was about half an acre in size, and really wasn't large enough to warrant the use of a lawn tractor. They used a Briggs & Straton petrol push mower. It took about a couple of hours to cut the grass. Towards the end a gardener was employed to do the job.
It is most definitely not a lawn.
More of a pasture in appearance. I don't have the time (or weather) to have a lawn.
Why don't you buy a goat to keep the pasture in check?
It looks like a pasture, but it is my back garden. The previous owners just let the grass grow and hardly ever cut it.
My neighbour also had a problem with his in ground basement leaking, so I let him dump the soil in my garden, so the grass there is wrecked.
He will be replanting it though.
Goats eat the roots etc. They would be great in the woods, but I can't be doing with chasing escaped goats.
If not a goat, how about a sheep? I think they just nibble the grass without damaging the roots, and their droppings will be good fertiliser.
That would involve fencing off the garden, which will cost me a fortune.
It wasn't an entirely serious suggestion - more an example of AoS's notorious thread drift! :D
Pigmy Pony
18-03-2026, 22:32
That would involve fencing off the garden, which will cost me a fortune.
That would be best part of a quarter of a mile of fence I'm guessing, so yeah the robot mower looks like the best option.
According to the teacher in "The Wall", an acre is an area whose length is one furlong and the width one chain (220 yds x 22 yds), making two acres 110 yds x 88 yds. :eek: That's quite some garden!
Just get one sheep and tie it to a post. Every so often move the post. It will cut a circular area with the radius of the length of the rope - which means if you do it right your garden will look like a Venn diagram on Google Earth.
One sheep cannot be too much trouble and the girl can be tasked to look after it in any case. Probably there's a youtube video that shows you how.
It wasn't an entirely serious suggestion - more an example of AoS's notorious thread drift! :D
:lol:
I have already looked into goats and sheep.
My daughter suggested a horse.
Horses need a bigger area than your garden I think plus expensive to run, there's always something up with them.
What about tortoises? You'd need a fair few of them but they're pretty much plug and play.
Pigmy Pony
19-03-2026, 07:24
Horses need a bigger area than your garden I think plus expensive to run, there's always something up with them.
What about tortoises? You'd need a fair few of them but they're pretty much plug and play.
But tortoises are sneaky buggers, as good at escaping as goats. They move so slowly (when watched) that people underestimate them. As a kid I was always losing my tortoise.
The horse idea might just be sustainable, after all you've got about one and a half football pitches worth of garden there, and so might be your 'safest' option - it'll also provide alternative transport without the need for tax/MOT/insurance, no fuelling costs, and if it doesn't work out, all is not lost - just look up "local boucheries chevalines" in le yellow pages :)
I don't need to look one up. There is one at the local market.
Animals are out of the question, as they need looking after.
But tortoises are sneaky buggers, as good at escaping as goats. They move so slowly (when watched) that people underestimate them. As a kid I was always losing my tortoise.
The horse idea might just be sustainable, after all you've got about one and a half football pitches worth of garden there, and so might be your 'safest' option - it'll also provide alternative transport without the need for tax/MOT/insurance, no fuelling costs, and if it doesn't work out, all is not lost - just look up "local boucheries chevalines" in le yellow pages :)
I only found this out by watching 'Escape To The Country' where a horsey type rejected a house that had a garden stretching to the horizon as it wasn't big enough for her horses. You need at least two acres per horse.
I have two acres. ;)
The horse could go in the woods, but I don't want to be dealing with a horse and the associated waste products.
I have two acres. ;)
The horse could go in the woods, but I don't want to be dealing with a horse and the associated waste products.
For the vet bills alone you could pay someone to come and cut the field once a month and still come out ahead.
All animals are a bit of a ballache it's true but that robot won't be maintenance free either.
Cleaning it and changing blades won't be too bad.
The ride on is starting to get a bit heavier on maintenance required, although last year it had new oil in the engine and rear axle, new drive belts and pulleys throughout. Also a new clutch for the blade drive system.
Already done the oli change this year, and have sharpened the blades. I hope there is nothing else to do.
Pigmy Pony
19-03-2026, 16:37
Can you not get a local farmer to cut it a couple of times a year in exchange for free grass to feed his cows/sheep in the winter?
Not many livestock farmers here. Mainly crops and veggies.
The other issue is that if I don't cut the grass, it makes the garden a good environment for snakes..
My wife suffers from ophidiophobia, so not cutting the grass is not an option.
I am "inches" away from ordering the robot mower.
It looks like an impressive bit of kit.
Send us some pictures of it when it arrives. :)
Send us some pictures of it when it arrives. :)
Pictures here - https://uk.navimow.com/pages/navimow-x4-robot-lawn-mower
85cm long, 61cm wide and 30kg. A bit of a mining ankle.
Pigmy Pony
19-03-2026, 19:58
Pictures here - https://uk.navimow.com/pages/navimow-x4-robot-lawn-mower
85cm long, 61cm wide and 30kg. A bit of a mining ankle.
That looks really impressive, so how long would it take to do 2 acres? Or does it just start again at the beginning? It also looks valuable, so you might need one of these to guard it:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/robotwars/images/8/85/Dead-metal.gif/revision/latest?cb=20090102041158
It will do the 5000m2 in 15 hours.
Getting back to HiFi....
My 2nd hand Primare Pre32 is in the post. It will be here next week.
I am quite looking forward to it, as it will allow me to run the little MJ Acoustics sub directly from the preamp, for a little bass enhancement at lower listening levels.
I am also looking at adding a trigger input to my Modulus 686 so that the pre will control the power.
The intelligent soft start has the functionality to do it, so I may as well make the most of it.
I want to find a nice dual led momentary power button with the right colours to make it fit in nicely.
A red/orange would be good, but so far I have only seen red/blue.
While I am in there, I am also tempted to remove R19 to lower the gain.
The Primare Pre32 is in the local collection point.
The only issue is that I need to wait until Monday to get it.
Today is new preamp day.
The question I am asking myself is "Will it sound better than the Topping Pre90?"
well, we await the report.
Only questionable thing about the Pre90 is the low input impedance. Maybe that will matter.
The Primare Pre32 is 8n the rack.
I think it has been a good choice for the digital side of my system. It seems more musical with a wider sound stage.
I am just waiting for the BB3 to warm up before I give the vinyl a spin.
Initial impressions are good. It is built like a tank.
So I have spent a lot of time listening to music this week, and I am happy with my purchase.
The Topping Pre90 is going back in it's box, and will be placed in "storage" with the other old HiFi gear, as I think it is worth keeping.
I know the Primare Pre35 is supposed to be better, but it was way more than I wanted to spend right now, which was the case with the Atoll PR300 Evo, as I still plan to buy a robot mower, if Mrs H agrees to it.
It has not benefit for her, so I am not sure she will be keen.
I also need to revisit my Valve choice in the BB3, as I don't remember what I have fitted but with the EPC-205/SAS, bass seems lighter.
It could just be that it is better controlled, so over the weekend, I will either change the valves or the cartridge.
The Primare is a great Pre,
Would expect it to add more 'meat to the bones' of the music over the Topping?
I found the Topping to be transparent, but slightly mechanical sounding with a feeling of the music being a good recording, rather than actual people playing instruments in front of you.
Particularly noticable with the more natural acoustic tracks.
Had the Primare phono stage and integrated in my Rack, build quality and looks are top notch.
Enjoy.
Its quality gear and will put more smiles on your face than a robot mower. :)
Its quality gear and will put more smiles on your face than a robot mower. :)
Unless the robot's been programmed with the personality of Rodney Dangerfield.
Unless the robot's been programmed with the personality of Rodney Dangerfield.
:D
Hey… I get no respect
The Primare is a great Pre,
Would expect it to add more 'meat to the bones' of the music over the Topping?
I found the Topping to be transparent, but slightly mechanical sounding with a feeling of the music being a good recording, rather than actual people playing instruments in front of you.
Particularly noticable with the more natural acoustic tracks.
Had the Primare phono stage and integrated in my Rack, build quality and looks are top notch.
Enjoy.
Its quality gear and will put more smiles on your face than a robot mower. :)
The Primare is more musical than the topping, for sure.
It also has better functionality, so what is there not to like?
The robot mower won't be fun, but it will save me two to three hours a week, so I can have more fun. 😉
All worked out best in the end!
Enjoy it when that happens :)
My SL1200 has started to play up recently, and I noticed that the PCB is coloured around one of the transistor through heat. The issue is that the TT does not always start.
I think this is due to the age of the capacitors, so I have ordered a kit of the new electrolytic capacitors required to replace the old ones.
There are 21 capacitors to change.
I have also addressed another issue. When I fitted my external PSU, I bypassed the power switch. In hindsight, this was probably not the best move as the capacitors have probably suffered more than they needed to, being powered on 24/7. So I have just wired the power switch back in.
Hopefully the capacitors will arrive early next week, and I can begin the replacement campaign.
I'm revamping my 1988 SL-1210 at the moment Kevin and was thinking about replacing the caps too. At the moment they appear in good shape, so decided not too. I have however ordered a complete main board assembly from Japan, to have as a drop in replacement should disaster strike.
I'm just about to put a new transformer in as well.
Hope all goes well with the cap replacement :)
A replacement board - that sounds expensive. ;)
I have been looking today, but I am not sure I can find the exact one I need.
A replacement board - that sounds expensive. ;)
It was a weekend deal with 10% off, they are about 130.00 at the moment with the power supply and bearing, but that goes up and down quite a bit.
Mind you I've never bought anything from Japan on eBay before, so it might turn out to be expensive!
I saw one in the UK for £150, so without import tax it may work out cheaper?
The cheapest one I saw in France was €280. And it has some PCB tracks fixed with solder. :eek:
I'm not expecting to pay any import tax as it was either 118 or 115, can't remember exactly now. I have seen them as low as 90.00 in Japan, but it fluctuates depending on how many are on there.
My understanding, but I'm not sure, is that if it's for personal use and below 130.00 you don't pay anything. . . I guess I'll find out?
Well it arrived from Japan without any import duty to pay. It took 8 days to arrive from the day I ordered it and the total cost was £115.18.
Looks in better shape than my current one, it's certainly newer . . hopefully it works too!
https://i.postimg.cc/rpBwhCWZ/japan.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/8kmJK9C3/PXL-20260512-081627327.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/4yPYY7Mh/PXL-20260512-082000573.jpg
Good to know.
My capacitor kit turned up today. I just need to plan when I fit them.
I also ordered some new resistors so I can change the ones where there is a visible discolouration on the PCB.
Nice one - keep those old Techies alive I say.
I actually bought a new SL-1200 GR2 but decided to take it back and restore my 1210 instead. I was going to sell it . . . that would have been a big mistake. I didn't like the extra buttons around the pitch fader and those blue lights made my head hurt, really hated those. Can't quite put my finger on it, but it just didn't look right and selling my old one didn't feel like the right thing to do either.
The resistors arrived today, so I took an hour off work, and the SL1200 is back up and running with 21 new capacitors as well as resistors R202 and R213 which I replaced with 1/2W versions, left proud of the board for better airflow, as the board was discoloured in this area.
The Capacitors were mainly Panasonic FM series, except for the six 1uF, which were WIMA Film Capacitors.
The resistors were Vishay Carbon 5% resistors - basically like for like, but going up to 1/2W from 1/4W. They were probably fine, but as they seem to have been getting warm, I changed them.
Good stuff - I used to be good with a soldering iron in my twenties, but now . . . not so much!
Glad to hear the 1200 is back in action.
The printing on both sides makes the job pretty easy, as does having a good soldering iron.
The printing on both sides makes the job pretty easy, as does having a good soldering iron.
Were the caps and resistors easy to source? Now I have two main boards, I might be brave enough to try this myself, knowing I have a backup available.
I ordered a kit through eBay for the capacitors.
I only changed the resistors as they were in a hot spot.
If you want the resistors, I have 19 of each left. Send me a PM and I will post a couple of each to you.
They are Vishay 5% Carbon.
Thanks for that, let me have a look for the kits and then if I think I might have a go, I'll get back to you.
:cool:
You can see the discolouration quite clearly.
31702
Yup, compared to my board that is quite a difference.
https://i.postimg.cc/nzt6ySV6/Screenshot-from-2026-05-14-21-52-47.png
You can see the discolouration quite clearly.
31702
Do you think that's because you had it wired up to be powered all the time and have you fixed that now?
Yes, I think so.
The power switch on the TT has been wired into the power circuit now, so it is fixed.
Yup, compared to my board that is quite a difference.
https://i.postimg.cc/nzt6ySV6/Screenshot-from-2026-05-14-21-52-47.png
And on your board, I would not change the resistors.
And on your board, I would not change the resistors.
:thumbsup:
It seems in reasonably good shape, I have yet to test the capacitors with a multimeter, only done a visual check.
https://i.postimg.cc/j2C2fjVH/mainboard.jpg
That's the current board, the one from Japan is similar, if not a little cleaner.
I don't think a multimeter will give you an accurate reading with the capacitors still fitted to the board.
The next job on the list is to change the output capacitors on the BB3. I have some JLX aluminium foil capacitors arriving next week. These were recommended by Oli.
While I am in there with my soldering iron, I am tempted to change the diodes in the power supply. Standard parts are UF4007, so I was think SF4007 may bring a minor upgrade, potentially lowering the noise floor, very slightly.
I don't think a multimeter will give you an accurate reading with the capacitors still fitted to the board.
I've no idea if that'll work as I've never done it before, just something I was reading recently - I'm learning on the hoof at the moment :o
I did wonder if that would work, so I'll give it a miss.
If you Techie is from the 80s, the capacitors are 40 years old, so due a change.
Not necessarily. My 1200 works fine (I don't know exactly how old it is since it is from a 'zero' year so could be 1990 or 2000) but the previous one I had was either 1980 or 1990 and that was also fine.
Although it is widely claimed that capacitors always degrade it's by no means universal. If the deck spins at the correct speed then there's no problem to solve.
If you Techie is from the 80s, the capacitors are 40 years old, so due a change.
My 1210 is from 1988 and I was thinking that myself, but I got some advice from a couple of turntable trade guys and Jez Arkless, who all said to leave it alone if it was running fine, which it is. I'm not competent enough to know which is the best advice, so that's kind of why I bought the other main board from Japan. Not just to have the IC chips AN6680 & AN6675, which are getting expensive now (often more than I paid for the board for just one), but to have a full backup.
So I won't do anything now until something fails, then I'll swap the board out and fix the one that's faulty, so the deck should always be functional - that's the theory anyway :scratch:
I would listen to the professionals, and not some SL1200 tinkerer. ;)
Much to my dismay, I was still getting occasional and what seems like random hum from my BB3, so last night I swapped the UF4007 out for some Vishay SF4007, as these are supposed to be an upgrade. I was also not sure what UF4007 I had fitted. They may have been generic parts I purchased from Amazon to try and fix the issue.
Listening to my system in my lunch break for the first time, and I am surprised at the difference changing these diodes out has made.
I tidied up the input/output/loading connections whilst I was in there , but I am almost at a point where it sounds too bright.
I am going to have to wait for it to warm up and reassess later.
My new output capacitors should arrive tomorrow, so if I don't like the SF4007, I have some proper UF4007s to drop back in whilst I am changing the output capacitors.
The advantage of the SF4007 from what I have read is that they are supposed to help create a "blacker background" which is probably useful in a phonostage.
Time will tell.
It has warmed up now.
It sounds much better now that it has. I had never really noticed a big difference before.
And part of the difference is down to the Mazda Silver plate 12AX7S that was fitted.
Not the best match with an AT20SS. :doh:
Funny how Mazda were knocking out valves and cars.
Imagine if you could get British Leyland valves.
As you probably alreadyknow, they only share the name. ;)
When looking into where Mazda vacuum tubes (valves) were made, it helps to clear up a common bit of confusion: the "Mazda" brand name was historically shared by completely separate corporate entities across different countries, none of which had anything to do with the Japanese car manufacturer.
Because of complex licensing and trademark agreements tracing back to General Electric (USA) using the name "Mazda" for high-efficiency incandescent lamps named after the Zoroastrian god of light (*Ahura Mazda*), you will find Mazda valves from three primary regions:
1. United Kingdom (British Mazda / Ediswan)
The most common Mazda-branded valves found in classic British hi-fi gear, guitar amplifiers, and radio sets were **made in England**.
The Manufacturer: They were manufactured by Ediswan (The Edison Swan Electric Co.), which later became part of British Thomson-Houston (BTH) and Associated Electrical Industries (AEI).
The Factories: The vast majority of authentic British Mazda valves were produced at the historic Ponders End factory in North London. Later production also came from facilities in Sunderland and Bristol.
Characteristics: True British Mazda valves (like their highly regarded ECC83, 6P15, or UU series rectifiers) are famous for their rugged construction and high-quality internal engineering, often featuring highly distinct anode stitching or unique structural geometry compared to their Mullard counterparts.
2. France (La Compagnie des Lampes / Mazda-Belvu)
If you run across vintage Mazda valves in continental Europe, they are highly likely to be made in France.
The Manufacturer: La Compagnie des Lampes (CdL) owned the Mazda trademark in France. They manufactured lighting and thermionic valves under the MAZDA and Lampe Mazda banners. They also operated under the Mazda-Belvu and CIFTE umbrellas.
The Factories: The primary manufacturing hub was at the historic Ivry-sur-Seine plant just south of Paris, with secondary production coming from workshops like Saint-Pierre-Montlimart near Cholet.
Characteristics: French Mazda silver-box or military-spec tubes (such as French-made 12AX7s, 6V6GTs, and unique pentodes) are highly prized by audiophiles today for their exceptionally clean, detailed sonic performance and incredibly low noise floors.
3. The "Foreign" Stamped Relabeled Valves
As the golden age of vacuum tube production began to wind down in the late 1960s and 1970s, the British and French Mazda entities increasingly sourced valves from other global manufacturers to meet replacement market demands, stamping them with the Mazda logo.
Depending on the production era and specific valve, a "Mazda" stamped tube might actually have been manufactured by:
Mullard (Blackburn, UK) or Philips (Eindhoven, Netherlands)
Tesla (Czechoslovakia) — For example, many Mazda-branded 6X4/EZ90 rectifiers are actually premium-quality Czech Tesla 6Z31 production.
EI (Yugoslavia) or Tungsram (Hungary)
RFT (East Germany)
How to check: If you are trying to verify a specific pair of Mazda valves for a phono stage or preamp, look closely at the glass near the base. Authentic British production often features etched factory codes or structural traits like heavily stitched/folded gray plates, while French-made versions frequently carry specific batch codes or distinct silver internal shield plates.
As you proba ly alreadyknow, they only share the name. ;)
I didn't know that, I always assumed it was the same company or at least part of the same group. Interesting.
Every day’s a school day! Thanks for that Kevin, interesting indeed!
One thing I am happy to report with the change to SF4007 diodes in the HV stage of my BB3 is that there is less valve hiss when music is not playing.
I have my system powered on without music playing, to see if my mod has helped cure the hum and there is noticeably less hiss "on idle".
I have not heard any hum today. Too early to claim a victory though.
The JLX aluminium caps have been installed now, and are "burning in".
The BB3 seems to sound less "clinical" at the moment, which was the goal.
Time will tell if this was the right move.
Still no hum heard, so I am feeling happy.
I also think that the JLX Aluminium foil caps are starting to open up a bit more.
Hopefully they will be run in fully sometime during the weekend.
I took Oli's advice on the capacitors, and it seems to have paid off.
Still no hum heard, so I am feeling happy.
:thumbsup:
I have just finished measuring the capacitors removed from my SL1200.
All were OK, except for C209, which was 37% lower than it should have been.
C209 is the capacitor located in the darkened area of my main board, so realistically, I could have got away with replacing just this one.
That's good to know Kevin . . . how old is your 1200 by the way? Just looked at the C209 location and yeah, it's right in your hot zone.
I'm possibly not going to externalise my new power board and transformer, it's apparently much quieter than the original - the maker claims "Upgraded toroidal transformer for audiophile quality power with a fraction of the electromagnetic noise as the original transformer".
We shall see?
Personally, I would move the PSU to an external case.
It is all about removing a source of vibration and electrical noise away from the platter/cartridge.
As for the year, my SL1200 MK2-A-XA (and I am guessing) it is a April 1991 deck, as the serial number starts GE1DX with quite a low serial number (less than 2000).
Additional info on the changes on my capacitors - C1 was replaced by a 1000uF cap as found on some of the different models, and C2 is a 50V 33uF instead of the 25V originally fitted.
I think I will also a spare board, whilst they are still available at a sensible price.
As for the year, my SL1200 MK2-A-XA (and I am guessing) it is a April 1991 deck, as the serial number starts GE1DX with quite a low serial number (less than 2000).
Additional info on the changes on my capacitors - C1 was replaced by a 1000uF cap as found on some of the different models, and C2 is a 50V 33uF instead of the 25V originally fitted.
I think I will also a spare board, whilst they are still available at a sensible price.
I think Imshould have done some more research before buying "upgraded" capacitors to replace new ones from the kit.
If your external power supply has its own internal voltage regulator and sends a clean, steady, flat 21V DC straight into the turntable mainboard, it completely replaces the turntable’s original internal regulation circuitry.
In this case, you can strip the entire onboard power regulation section. Along with C1, you can remove:
C2 (Typically 100\,\mu\text{F} / 25\text{V}): This is the output smoothing capacitor for the onboard regulator. Since the external supply is already delivering regulated, smooth DC, this capacitor is redundant.
C3 (Typically 33\,\mu\text{F} / 25\text{V}): This sits on the base of the main regulation transistor (Q1 / Q2 depending on board revision) to stabilize the reference voltage. If the internal regulator isn't working, C3 does nothing.
The Rectifier Diodes (D1): Usually a 4-diode package or four discrete diodes near C1. Because no AC is entering the deck, these are entirely idle.
The Main Regulator Transistor & Zener Diode: While not capacitors, you can also unsolder the pass transistor (mounted to the small metal bracket/chassis) and its accompanying Zener diode (D2 or D301), as they are completely bypassed.
That is €3.60 down the drain. :lol:
Personally, I would move the PSU to an external case.
I'm on the fence about this Kevin, I have all the bits from Maplin and it's a simple enough job, but TBH I don't really fancy the extra box. I'm not an audiophile by any stretch of the imagination, I just like playing music. When it's sorted it'll be the best deck I've used anyway, having not had a TT since the 80s. I've only had two before, a Pioneer PL12D then an Ariston Q Deck. I did briefly have a 401 but never used it . . . should have kept that really, but there you go. I had an SL-1200GR2 for 2 days, but took that back wanting to fix mine up instead.
So I've nothing to judge it against really to say it's not going to be better than what I had before, so good enough for occasional use. I've only got about 300 LPs left and mostly play my FLAC files, but want a half decent turntable available if the fancy takes me.
We'll see, but right now I think it will be more than enough to keep me happy with the new paint job, lid, bearing and a Rega RB330 arm.
Well, play it by ear then.
Personally, when the deck is stripped down, I would do it, and fit a long lead between the power supply and the TT.
Then the PSU can be put on the floor out of the way, and out of sight.
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