Grade 2 listed

[hifi_dave]

We have a Grade 2 listed, 15th century farmhouse in need of replacement windows.

I got up the scaffolding a couple of weeks ago to 'touch up' some paintwork I had done two years ago. Well, that was the intention but when I started to scrape back, I have two windows which are now completely rotten and way beyond repair. We have had a couple of local craftsmen in to give us a quote and meantime we have filled in all the forms for the Council to get permission to replace like with like. It won't be cheap but there is no alternative as the windows will be seen from the road and are unlike any modern windows.

Now, the rear of the house has a lot of windows and doors. All the windows are cheapo 1980s windows and are all rotting away and need to be replaced a couple at a time. Does anyone know what the Council will want us to do as we can't replace like with like when the originals are 1980s junk ? I'd love to have aluminium, double glazed as the modern ones look more like wood than wood and will protect us from the winds coming across the fields but that would be a step too far for the Council.

Any thoughts ?

[struth]

ask them. if your pleasant and ask for advice they are usually happy to help. They are all different attitude wise as to what they allow but depends on when it was classified re the 80's stuff

[hifi_dave]

I don't think there was any permission for the 1980s windows, the previous owner just did them because the originals had long gone. We haven't any paperwork to show whether he did or didn't. He did a lot of work as the house was derelict when he bought it and some was OK'd, some wasn't .

I was just wondering what a Council will want to do about replacing these windows. The originals at the front will be replaced like for like, that I understand but when the old windows at the back are 1980s, cheap as chips, what will the Council want ?

I am reluctant to ask until I have a better idea - can of worms and all that.

BTW. How come you are always first to reply with words of wisdom ?

[Macca]

15th century? That is older than a lot of countries.

If it were me I'd just fit some uPVC on the back, no-one will ever see it. If they ever do come out to check just say they were already in there when you bought the place. I know someone who has used that dodge to good effect a few times.

[struth]

I don't think there was any permission for the 1980s windows, the previous owner just did them because the originals had long gone. We haven't any paperwork to show whether he did or didn't. He did a lot of work as the house was derelict when he bought it and some was OK'd, some wasn't .

I was just wondering what a Council will want to do about replacing these windows. The originals at the front will be replaced like for like, that I understand but when the old windows at the back are 1980s, cheap as chips, what will the Council want ?

I am reluctant to ask until I have a better idea - can of worms and all that.

BTW. How come you are always first to reply with words of wisdom ?

i'm only guessing but they may want the originals put back unfortunately as no permissions was given for them to be replaced with whats there. But I'm kinda going on class 1 here... class 2 in some areas is pretty lax especially for this kind of thing.

You could take pics etc of the old ones in detail and just replace like for like. If, and its a biggish if they kick up you can honestly say you replaced like for like as in the class 2 docs, and claim it was THEIR fault the house had wrong spec in first place and that it should have been checked before any sale etc by them. then walk away quickly whistling

[Truckletheuncivil]

I would ask first as it's easier to start off on the right foot and try to get what you want. If you act first and they don't like it you could struggle to get them on side. Sealed units are date stamped so it's unlikely you could claim they were there when you moved in.

[Firebottle]

Having heard tales from 'Grade' listings, I suspect Grade 1 but I can't remember properly, I'd say fuck 'em.

The conditions set and restrictions given for 'original' materials were so onerous as to be ridiculously expensive.
With groundworks particularly once the work was done no one was any the wiser afterwards.

YMMV

[pgarrish]

I find a lot of this preservation stuff beyond comical. Most stately homes are complete 'bitsa's' with a hodgepodge of whatever the residents could afford or liked at the time. To be as anal as councils and english heritage are now, to the point of letting buildings fall down for the want of the right grade of cement, is plain daft. Check it wont luck bloody awful and let people get on with it. They have to live in it after all.

[rdpx]

Hi Dave, if you're still working on this I highly recommend RATIONEL and also VROGUM windows. I researched it for ages, and we had ours fitted by M A Simmonds. Haggle! R

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

[hifi_dave]

Hi, Thank you for the info. We have gone with a local man, just 100 yards up the road. He has done work for many local pubs, churches, houses and even steam engines, as we have a very active steam engine fraternity here.

My Wife submitted plans, photos, specifications, drawings and pledges, to the council, as requested. The answer was that they don't need all that if it is 'like for like' and only two windows. Basically, they are trusting us to do a sympathetic job. Pity they didn't tell us that at the outset..:doh:

[Macca]

If it is a listed building shouldn't it be up to English Heritage to authorise the work, rather than the local Council?

[Clive]

English Heritage are usually involved. I'm sorry but if you have a listed building you've bought a property you need to maintain and restore as required. No matter what's been done to the property by other owners you have bought the liability of previous owners. It is a big responsibility.

[hifi_dave]

Maybe it's English heritage for Grade 1 and above but the Council oversee Grade 2.

Sometimes they can be very unreasonable but in this case, they are quite OK with us replacing like with like, if it's only two windows.

[Clive]

English Heritage get involved with Grade 2* and I've seen them involved sometimes on Grade 2....it can be the council ask their advice.

[hifi_dave]

Yes, we had a confirmation from the Council, that they wouldn't get interested in our replacing windows as they will be like for like and only two windows. If we were changing or adding, they would then want all sorts of info and visits.

[Dirty]

Personally I would tread very carefully and get all the safeguards, ie written confirmations from both council and Heritage. They have a track record of taking little notice until after work is done then fining people!

[hifi_dave]

Thanks for the advice. We do have their e-mails confirming they will allow replacement of two windows like for like, without having to jump through hoops.