What is it with Naim users?

[Infinitely Baffled]

I have got a Naim power supply - an old one from the "olive green" era - that I have been trying to sell. Not just trying, in fact, but succeeding - twice - on Ebay. But unbelievably (to me, at any rate) on both occasions the buyers rescinded the sale because the power cable was not the original Naim item. Once this happened before I boxed it up and sent it, the other time the buyer discovered the awful truth upon taking delivery. He cancelled the transaction and sent it back to me!

Now, I have no idea what an original Naim power cable looks like and no idea whether I ever owned the one that belonged to this power supply (which I bought second hand). I just used it with one of the standard 3-pin 13 amp to IEC plug cables that I have at home, and I assumed that the next user would be happy to do so. Not so, it seems. For a self-respecting Naim owner, it's got to be a Naim cable.

So anyway, I have bought one now, to give myself a fighting chance of making a sale that sticks. And guess what? It's a kettle lead with a separate white 13 amp plug screwed onto it! And if you didn't know it was full of magic Naim smoke, you would say it was just a really ordinary item.

What goes through folks' heads, really? What level of obsession is this? What are they doing with their kit - listening to it, or is it standing on a dais under a spotlight in some Hong Kong apartment being ritually worshipped?

I give up ...
IB

[Barry]

Naim are a law unto themselves. They fit locking DIN connectors to their products, but then recommend that the 'twist to lock' ring on the plug is not employed, so as to provide mechanical decoupling. If that is the idea, why fit locking DIN connectors in the first place?

IMO Naim enthusiasts are blinkered; just as Linn enthusiasts appear to be.

[walpurgis]

IMO Naim enthusiasts are blinkered; just as Linn enthusiasts appear to be.

:lol:

[southall-1998]

:partytime:

S.

[Arkless Electronics]

:doh::eyebrows: Not that I would have anything to say about such things of course :D

I bet it was transformed into a sonic cathedral of sound when you changed the kettle lead then?

:sofa:

[Haselsh1]

This kind of thing just sounds like 1979 all over again. Back then I bought a Naim 42/110 combination and the dealer talked me into a 'special' interconnect between the pre and the power. The dealer informed me that the lead had a green band around one end because it was crucial to get this cable the correct way around as it was so directional.

Of course I had to try it all bloody ways around.

[Macca]

I would say Naim is like any other cult. You join in order to have someone else tell you what to think and so save yourself the bother of having to think for yourself.

I might well have joined when I was younger but I couldn't afford to and thus was I saved.

[Infinitely Baffled]

I would say Naim is like any other cult. You join in order to have someone else tell you what to think and so save yourself the bother of having to think for yourself.

Much truth in this!
IB

[Pharos]

I think we have to be blinkered to become involved in Naim in the first place.

[walpurgis]

I think we have to be blinkered to become involved in Naim in the first place.

It's quite a while since I heard any Naim equipment. It can be impressive in the right context, but I've not heard anything I'd want to live with.

[Macca]

. It can be impressive in the right context, but I've not heard anything I'd want to live with.

I'd agree except for the original Nait amp which I quite like. Heard a full 'six pack' system and it was good but not as good as it should have been for the amount of money involved. It wasn't a 'relaxing' listen, either. But that's a matter of personal taste.

[Ammonite Audio]

I'd agree except for the original Nait amp which I quite like. Heard a full 'six pack' system and it was good but not as good as it should have been for the amount of money involved. It wasn't a 'relaxing' listen, either. But that's a matter of personal taste.

Yes, all of this hobby is a matter of personal taste. My SuperNait2 turned out to be a far sweeter and more 'organic' sounding thing than I'd expected, showing its overwhelmingly well-reviewed Hegel H160 predecessor in my system a clean set of heels in every respect. Someone else might hear my system and disagree profoundly with my description of its sound, but we are all different and that's OK.

Going back to the original post, I'm amazed that anyone should be so obsessed about 'originality' that they could not see Naim's standard issue mains cable as what it is - a perfectly ordinary black OEM cable with moulded IEC and an MK 13A plug that anyone could put together for a fiver and nobody would know any different. I don't think that Naim claim anything special about this cable - they do after all sell two different mains upgrade cables. Second hand audio buyers can certainly be overly picky - I once sold a used but boxed Squeezebox for £60 at an Audio Jumble and the buyer complained that it had a small scratch on top.

[hifi_dave]

Blinded by the hype.

Naim used to be good value equipment built and sold by enthusiasts. Now it is a marketing and selling machine with none of the original management remaining.

[Ammonite Audio]

Blinded by the hype.

Naim used to be good value equipment built and sold by enthusiasts. Now it is a marketing and selling machine with none of the original management remaining.

I'd argue that Naim still offer good value equipment, but that aside they are clearly very successful in what they do, still design and manufacturing in the UK, and most importantly employ many people in the UK. I'm quite proud of that, even though I have no commercial connection with Naim. What exactly is wrong with being successful in the audio business?

[MikeMusic]

I have also had issues selling Naim, but the resale price is good so I philosophically go through a prospective buyer or two before finally selling
:)

[petrat]

Yes, all of this hobby is a matter of personal taste. My SuperNait2 turned out to be a far sweeter and more 'organic' sounding thing than I'd expected, showing its overwhelmingly well-reviewed Hegel H160 predecessor in my system a clean set of heels in every respect. Someone else might hear my system and disagree profoundly with my description of its sound, but we are all different and that's OK.

Going back to the original post, I'm amazed that anyone should be so obsessed about 'originality' that they could not see Naim's standard issue mains cable as what it is - a perfectly ordinary black OEM cable with moulded IEC and an MK 13A plug that anyone could put together for a fiver and nobody would know any different. I don't think that Naim claim anything special about this cable - they do after all sell two different mains upgrade cables. Second hand audio buyers can certainly be overly picky - I once sold a used but boxed Squeezebox for £60 at an Audio Jumble and the buyer complained that it had a small scratch on top.

Totaly agree with all this ... especially about the Supernait 2. In fact, most modern Naim kit sounds way better than the old 'shriek boxes' imo.

[Macca]

I'd argue that Naim still offer good value equipment, but that aside they are clearly very successful in what they do, still design and manufacturing in the UK, and most importantly employ many people in the UK. I'm quite proud of that, even though I have no commercial connection with Naim. What exactly is wrong with being successful in the audio business?

Nothing, and I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. Yet. But blind adherence to a brand to the extent that you won't buy their power supply unless it has their mains cable included isn't good. It encourages manufacturers to move away from proper value engineering and towards nonsense and foo because that is where they think punters want to spend.

[DSJR]

The thing is where I came from - Ivor T could be quite candid if you got him informally over dinner for example and the bullshit over Linn often came from dealer imaginations I think. Naim is different. JV was quite able to spin the bull when he felt it would boost sales and this, coupled with some basic truth too, became folklore.

The thing in my days with Naim, from 1976 up until 2004, was that 15A MK mains plugs were the thing (and possibly still make sense due to the contact area in the plugs and sockets), but because MK plugs were expensive, Naim switched to Crabtree, which I remember are basically well made bog-standard plugs. weave a little more bullshit about Crabtree being 'better sounding' (like fcuk) and there you are. I can also assure you lot that using a locking plug and not locking it with the ring provided does one thing only for the sound - you risk screaming noises if the plug is partly pulled out and blown tweeters as a result. Not fun if you happened to own Isobariks with two expensive tweeters per carcass!!! it happened to me at the time and the then chipboard cabinets and thick gasket sealant used to seal the tweeters in made for chipboard crumbling on their removal.

As for this whole decoupling nonsense, I could never get the hang of it. There's a thing called 'gravity' which pulls wires downwards, so in the back of the ghastly Ovator speakers for example, having deliberately sloppy speaker terminals made absolutely NO difference at all, the speakers them selves having fundamental and significant design/sonic flaws that no amount spent on the driving system or levelling could fix ime.

As for Naim customers. it's also like this with Linn. A lot of the buyers are so scared of doing or trying anything other than the lore as wrote from Salisbury, that only the official cables will do. Knowing JV as I did back then, I suspect he was picking it up as he went along too, but the one thing he did give us disciples was a proper way of setting up the LP12 in the early days, no two of which ever being the same back then...

[Barry]

I much prefer Crabtree 13A plugs to those made by MK. The cable clamp is more versatile and I prefer the screw connections to the pins. Unfortunately I don't think Crabtree are in business any more, and I think MK products are now made in China.

As long as the contact surface area is 6 - 10x the cross section area of the pin, and the contact force is at least 10N/mm2, there is no real advantage of 15A round pin plugs over the rectangular pin 13A types.


Agree about not locking the DIN plugs, but that doesn't explain why Naim recommend not locking the plugs.

[Pharos]

I use a Nait which was described by the Sound Organisation as one of the best amps they made, I use it for phones.

I strongly disagree with the last post on surface area because only an infinitesimal angle error on the pins will reduce contact area to virtually zero, for that reason I use 5A round pin.

[Infinitely Baffled]

Going back to the original post, I'm amazed that anyone should be so obsessed about 'originality' that they could not see Naim's standard issue mains cable as what it is - a perfectly ordinary black OEM cable with moulded IEC and an MK 13A plug that anyone could put together for a fiver and nobody would know any different.

And that wasn't the worst of it. One of my "buyers" wanted me to photograph the original Naim box and the polystyrene formers that surround the unit in the box. At first I thought that was half-way reasonable, because I assumed his concern was that the unit should be properly protected for shipping. With hindsight, though, I suspect it was nothing of the sort. I suspect that what he wanted was the total, immersive Naim experience that only comes if you can fondle the factory-fresh polystyrene formers while you listen to your favourite music!
IB

[paulf-2007]

And that wasn't the worst of it. One of my "buyers" wanted me to photograph the original Naim box and the polystyrene formers that surround the unit in the box. At first I thought that was half-way reasonable, because I assumed his concern was that the unit should be properly protected for shipping. With hindsight, though, I suspect it was nothing of the sort. I suspect that what he wanted was the total, immersive Naim experience that only comes if you can fondle the factory-fresh polystyrene formers while you listen to your favourite music!
IBwell I hope you told him where to go. That'll teach you to buy that crap in the first place:)

[prestonchipfryer]

There's 'nowt so queer as folk. :)

[Infinitely Baffled]

well I hope you told him where to go. That'll teach you to buy that crap in the first place.

A robust attitude!
In fact the CDX with its power supply were the only pieces of Naim equipment I have ever owned. I got them out of curiosity really, to see what all the fuss was about, and I have to say it was very good. I don't think anyone could reasonably say otherwise. I suspect what it is that gets up peoples' noses about Naim is a sort of subliminal arrogance in the way they present themselves to the market; that and the fact that Naim adherents take themselves so damned seriously! In the end it was only that restless curiosity that most of us are guilty of that made me move it on in favour of an Audio Synthesis player and Micromega DAC combo. Well, that plus the fact that what the Naim kit sold for bought its replacement plus about a grand in change!
IB

[narabdela]

I suspect what it is that gets up peoples' noses about Naim is a sort of subliminal arrogance in the way they present themselves to the market; that and the fact that Naim adherents take themselves so damned seriously!

In a nutshell. :thumbsup:

[stewart]

I much prefer Crabtree 13A plugs to those made by MK. The cable clamp is more versatile and I prefer the screw connections to the pins. Unfortunately I don't think Crabtree are in business any more, and I think MK products are now made in China.

As long as the contact surface area is 6 - 10x the cross section area of the pin, and the contact force is at least 10N/mm2, there is no real advantage of 15A round pin plugs over the rectangular pin 13A types.


Agree about not locking the DIN plugs, but that doesn't explain why Naim recommend not locking the plugs.Crabtree are still in business and are part of the Electrium Group which includes Volex and Wylex.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[paulf-2007]

A robust attitude!
In fact the CDX with its power supply were the only pieces of Naim equipment I have ever owned. I got them out of curiosity really, to see what all the fuss was about, and I have to say it was very good. I don't think anyone could reasonably say otherwise. I suspect what it is that gets up peoples' noses about Naim is a sort of subliminal arrogance in the way they present themselves to the market; that and the fact that Naim adherents take themselves so damned seriously! In the end it was only that restless curiosity that most of us are guilty of that made me move it on in favour of an Audio Synthesis player and Micromega DAC combo. Well, that plus the fact that what the Naim kit sold for bought its replacement plus about a grand in change!
IBi forgot to put a smiley, just edited with one before I read your post.

[Spectral Morn]

Yes, all of this hobby is a matter of personal taste. My SuperNait2 turned out to be a far sweeter and more 'organic' sounding thing than I'd expected, showing its overwhelmingly well-reviewed Hegel H160 predecessor in my system a clean set of heels in every respect. Someone else might hear my system and disagree profoundly with my description of its sound, but we are all different and that's OK.

Going back to the original post, I'm amazed that anyone should be so obsessed about 'originality' that they could not see Naim's standard issue mains cable as what it is - a perfectly ordinary black OEM cable with moulded IEC and an MK 13A plug that anyone could put together for a fiver and nobody would know any different. I don't think that Naim claim anything special about this cable - they do after all sell two different mains upgrade cables. Second hand audio buyers can certainly be overly picky - I once sold a used but boxed Squeezebox for £60 at an Audio Jumble and the buyer complained that it had a small scratch on top.

Obviously a collector who prises requires originality. Collectors are a whole different kind of person, audiophiles are anoraks, collectors can often be much worse. Mix the two.....

[walpurgis]

Obviously a collector who prises requires originality. Collectors are a whole different kind of person, audiophiles are anoraks, collectors can often be much worse. Mix the two.....

An obsessive anorak? Doesn't bear thinking about! :D