View Full Version : Do I need a DAC?
nbaptista
27-01-2010, 23:09
I´m using an external USB sound card connected to my amp (RCA´s) and the sound is just fine.It is a Cakewalk UA-1G made by Roland.I wonder if with a Cambridge or Beresford Dac I would get much better results?PC_DAC_Amplifier
Anyone has ever tryed this?Dac versus soundcard?:guitar:
USB is 44.1kHz max.
If you have a digital out from your mobo, it would be better to use that into a DAC.
IMO USB audio should only be used when there is no other option.
Stratmangler
28-01-2010, 00:04
USB is 44.1kHz max.
If you have a digital out from your mobo, it would be better to use that into a DAC.
IMO USB audio should only be used when there is no other option.
I have a Caiman, plus an EMU 0202usb.
The EMU pushes what is normally the accepted limits of usb specification http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=610&subcategory=611&product=15186&nav=technicalSpecifications
Chris:)
Thank you Chris for enlightening me. I stand corrected. I've done a little research on this. Interesting.
Apparently standard "Windows USB Audio Devices" are limited to 16/48 audio streams because that's the limit of the MS USB2 audio drivers. However, some enlightened companies (like Beresford :)) have written their own firmware/drivers and are therefore not limited to 16/48.
Rare Bird
28-01-2010, 01:15
USB is 44.1kHz max.
If you have a digital out from your mobo, it would be better to use that into a DAC.
IMO USB audio should only be used when there is no other option.
Aye Kris i was happy with my HRT Streamer but it would only deal with 16 Bit being USB fed..Had to hand it down to mi mate..
http://www.highresolutiontechnologies.com/5496_hifi+_HRT_lowres.pdf
i use 24/96 DAC now via Optical, i'd like Coax but you can't win em all.At least i can feed Coax feed from CD Player to DAC...
Shanedudddy2
28-01-2010, 03:44
Beresford is limited to 16/48, but some are not, depends on the usb controller on the DAC
I´m using an external USB sound card connected to my amp (RCA´s) and the sound is just fine.It is a Cakewalk UA-1G made by Roland.I wonder if with a Cambridge or Beresford Dac I would get much better results?PC_DAC_Amplifier
Anyone has ever tryed this?Dac versus soundcard?:guitar:
Hi, I currently run sp/dif from my creative into my cinema processor but I have built a kit dac based on TDA1541a that I did plan to use instead.
A pal who is a component supplier has recently starting to modify sound cards with the same type of mods you may expect to find in a cdp.
He swears by his cards! I've not tried for myself but I deifnately give it a go!
http://www.diyhi-fi.co.uk/auzentech_hometheater_modifications.shtml
Beresford is limited to 16/48, but some are not, depends on the usb controller on the DAC
Yes, having checked, you're quite right. Surprisingly, the Beresford uses the standard Windows drivers on USB so is limited to 16/48 :(
Obviously one should be cautious when looking for a high res USB DAC, and double check to see if it uses the default windows USB Audio drivers. If it does, then no hi-res.
Of course, this limitation does not extend to the S/PDIF output, which sort of confirms that Co-Ax or Toslink should always be the preferred connection.
I have read in places that optical out from a Pc is preferred to Co-ax as it electrically isolates the PC from the Hi-Fi. Makes sense I suppose. . .
StanleyB
28-01-2010, 09:44
The majority of audio files stored on a PC are 16Bit/48KHz or less. That's what the USB input on the DAC is catering for.
If you have audio files that are 24Bit/96KHz, then use optical or coax. If you don't, then what is the problem:scratch:?
I have a Caiman, plus an EMU 0202usb.
How do you compare the two, Chris?
mwheelerk
06-02-2010, 15:35
The majority of audio files stored on a PC are 16Bit/48KHz or less. That's what the USB input on the DAC is catering for.
If you have audio files that are 24Bit/96KHz, then use optical or coax. If you don't, then what is the problem:scratch:?
I have read that some of the USB inputs on DACs do not handle jitter/timing/clocking well. I think that some of the DACs have USB as an afterthought. I believe that is what is thought of my DAC the CA DacMagic, which I use the optical connection and love this device. I also believe that this is changing and more manufacturers are realizing that users want a high quality USB capability.
StanleyB
06-02-2010, 15:53
What users want, and what the majority are pepared to pay for are two different quantities. High bit rate and frequency USB already exist. So it's not that the market is starved of those solutions.
mwheelerk
06-02-2010, 15:57
What users want, and what the majority are pepared to pay for are two different quantities. High bit rate and frequency USB already exist. So it's not that the market is starved of those solutions.
Maybe my statement was too general. You are right that good solutions do exist but that some manufacturers haven't given USB the consideration it requires.
mwheelerk
06-02-2010, 16:49
http://www.ayre.com/PDF/Ayre_USB_DAC_White_Paper.pdf
This covers the issue I was thinking about.
StanleyB
06-02-2010, 19:09
You are right that good solutions do exist but that some manufacturers haven't given USB the consideration it requires.
The limiting factors are the availability of USB chips. The main ones available are from Texas Instruments. DAC designers like me are limited to what components are available for the intended task.
At the same time, USB cannot surpass TOSLINK or COAX.
purite audio
06-02-2010, 19:54
USB just isn't the best way to transfer timed data, async USB designs such as the Wavelength dacs offer the best implementation.
Keith.
USB just isn't the best way to transfer timed data, async USB designs such as the Wavelength dacs offer the best implementation.
Keith.
Thats, true. Async pipes are better. I simply wonder if one day someone will use bulk-transfer pipes (the ones used for file transfer) and pack the audio protocol inside...
USB has very well designed connectors, but all my pro friends tell me that USB is the poorest for audio (compared with firewire, etc), mainly due to the power connectors next to the data ones...
StanleyB
07-02-2010, 11:07
Even though USB is so poor in terms of interference etc., there are still loads of people who seem to care more about being abe to play back 96KHz audio via USB. How do they justify living with the lower playback quality of USB, just for the sake of listening to 96KHz tracks through USB:mental:?
How do they justify living with the lower playback quality of USB, just for the sake of listening to 96KHz tracks through USB:mental:?
Because USB is the flavour of the month, it's been over-hyped and pushed in the media and in ads. Everything these days is 'USB', so naturally 'USB audio' must be better (in the eyes of those who don't know otherwise) than any other type of audio out.
Also, and please correct me on this if I'm wrong, but many laptops don't have co-ax or optical out, so for them USB is the only way.
StanleyB
07-02-2010, 11:59
Also, and please correct me on this if I'm wrong, but many laptops don't have co-ax or optical out, so for them USB is the only way.
You are totally correct about the USB only facility on most laptops. However, the Creative Labs X-Fi card can quickly solve that problem. I use one on my laptop and it is far cheaper than other USB solutions I have come across.
You are totally correct about the USB only facility on most laptops. However, the Creative Labs X-Fi card can quickly solve that problem. I use one on my laptop and it is far cheaper than other USB solutions I have come across.
Stan, how do you rate the X-Fi card compared to an M-Audio Transit (which still leaves you with a USB connection)?
I have been wondering about one or the other to get an optical out, but mostly to drive phones while on the move - the phone socket on my laptop is good enough for speech, but . . .
Edit:
Has the X-Fi laptop card have no S/PDIF out?
http://uk.store.creative.com/products/product.aspx?catid=1&pid=17988&nav=1
StanleyB
07-02-2010, 13:59
Stan, how do you rate the X-Fi card compared to an M-Audio Transit (which still leaves you with a USB connection)?
The X-Fi still leaves you with USB as well. I know nothing about the M-Audio. My choice of the X-Fi was purely dictated by an opportune momentary lapse in financial prudence, brought about by a reference to my DAC in an ebay listing.
The X-Fi still leaves you with USB as well.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. The M-Audio Transit connects by USB with custom drivers, the X-Fi uses the laptops expansion slot.
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit.html
About £50
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