Has Pop Music Got Worse In Recent Decades?

[Minstrel SE]

Hi

I feel I need to start a thread about what I feel is the dire nature of most pop music these days.

I refer to artists like Sia, Katy Perry, Ariana Grande and all related "artists" in this pop production machine. I just think its rubbish. It pretends to have depth and soul but I feel its as shallow and throwaway as yesterdays chip paper.

It just seems to be packing in all the latest autotune and digital effects but it has no real melody or lasting impression. Maybe a melody is buried in there somewhere. The lyrics are overblown and over dramatic. Has nobody told them that less is more! I may be generalising but I cant seem to like any of it. Has it just got more cynical in ticking the boxes?

The music just seems to be narcissistic in a more cynical industry concerned purely with the money. It seems to serve a look at me, self interested generation totally out of control. Its all me, me me and this seems to be reflected in shallow lyrics which pretend to be anthemic but are just naff. Is it aimed at kids only as I thought I would like some of it? :)

Is it me? Was pop music always this way or will the younger generation eventually return to better music from an earlier date :)

Heck I've tried this weekend to like something. I heard the Harry Styles one in the pub and thought that's ok on a first listen. However as soon as I realised it was him and heard it again, I didn't like it and thought it was ultra shallow/naff. Is that my prejudice showing as a fifty year old bloke?

I supose I've now become my dad. I will take a bit of Melanie or the Bulgarian womens choir anyday over this naff pop music which seems to have rapidly declined since the turn of the Millenium :) Lets discuss it

Best wishes
Martin

[mikeyb]

It's your age, pop/chart music has always been this way, you either like it or you don't, no matter which decade it's from 😉

[Macca]

It is age and becoming your father. Happens to us all.

However being objective about it I would still say that today's pop music is even worse than the pop music in my day ('70s/'80s). Ed Sheeran? - WTF? But the youngsters I know love his stuff.

[Minstrel SE]

Yes I was thinking that it is probably me.

Im not sure I even like the term "pop" music as I would like to think most of my tastes are more exclusive than that. I suppose its no different to when they were trying to ban Elvis Presley records. :)

I realise there has always been pop music around that Im not going to like. I tell you though that I would prefer the rubbish pop of yesteryear any day of the week.

Oh well I will just have to try and enjoy my period of life when Im shouting up the stairs to turn that awful racket down :)

You could hear what they were saying in my day (1980s) and sing along :D

[Stratmangler]

Im not sure I even like the term "pop" music

Dark Side Of The Moon had "file under Pop music" on the back.

[drSM]

inspired lyrics of today.. groan...

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=185622

[Stratmangler]

inspired lyrics of today.. groan...

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=185622

The transcription is spot on accurate :rfl:

[CageyH]

Definitely an age thing, but also helped on the way with shows like the xFactor, the voice etc.
It is all commercially driven (as it always was) but the people driving it have changed.

[datdad]

must be an age thing...
I keep going back to my 40 or 50 year old music.
The thought of turning into my dad really unsettles me though.

[struth]

A bit of both I guess. music is not as good as when I was young, or for that matter my parents. Thats not to say there are not good things going on today, but the quality is not there over all. I doubt many of the current acts will be remembered fondly in 50 years. Good music often comes from poverty and hardship, and there is not so much of that in west now. a bit like football stars. when we were young we played with a tennis ball and your skills became better for it.

[Minstrel SE]

Dark Side Of The Moon had "file under Pop music" on the back.

Well yes exactly but I dont like the catch all term pop music.

Popular!? Its like it was set apart from classical music as more lowbrow by some Smashie and Nicey character from the 50s or 60s........Not alf pop pickers!

I wouldnt use it to define everything from say Joe Dolce to The Sleaford Mods. To me out and out pop is at the disposable, novelty end of the market. I accept the issue of who then subjectively defines that.

Anyway I think there is a deeper reason I dont like this new genre of pop music and maybe its the people driving it now...it is the whole x factor thing and it all seems more cynical than it even was with the Spice Girls.

We do mature and I love all sorts including classical and opera now. There is some amazing world music out there and I can assure you its not Little Mix :) As Grant says who will actually remember most of it in 50 years time?

One thing I am sure about though is that the youth of today will feel like me when they get older as that seems to be human nature when dealing with younger generations and their shallow :) music.

[Stratmangler]

Popular!? Its like it was set apart from classical music as more lowbrow by some Smashie and Nicey character from the 50s or 60s........Not alf pop pickers!

That's exactly what happened, except that it's an attitude that goes back a lot further back than that.
My Dad was born in 1929, and grew up in a musical household. He, and his twin brother, were pianists, and both sang too.
In the time they grew up there was serious music (Classical of all varieties) and everything else was deemed to be lowbrow, and therefore popular, music.
The music charts for popular music were determined by sheet music sales.

[Yomanze]

Prince. Michael Jackson. Madonna. Nuff said.

[mikeyb]

Prince. Michael Jackson. Madonna. Nuff said.Aye they were crap as well lol

[MikeMusic]

There was always loads of shite around. As the whole thing has got so much bigger there is more. Same percentage though - approximately :)

[Yomanze]

Aye they were crap as well lolAww come on Prince was awesome. [emoji14]

[Pete The Cat]

Pop music does seem to have become homogenous nowadays, if you define it as what's in the charts and on the playlists of mainstream radio stations. In the 1970s you'd find real diversity of genres, a broad age range of interests and some (usually appalling) novelty items. Today seems to be dominated by dance-lite from "so-and-so featuring somebody else" guest rapping in the middle of it.

Pete

[walpurgis]

The quailty of 'chart music' seems to have descended to the same level as it was in the earlier sixties, when garbage like 'Freddie and The Dreamers' was at the top. Any serious talent being sidelined as it is now. I doubt we'll see the kind of real music making that happened from the later sixties and into the mid seventies ever making a major impact on the charts again.

[struth]

Ah, good ol' Freddie... those were the days....not!!!;) well they were in a way. the honeycombs too with their female drummer



https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rXo-osvXgHU/hqdefault.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/80/26/c8/8026c8f98899ed47f2a7761fca9d4a34.jpg

[Macca]

They knew how to do an album cover in those days.

Pal of mine was the sound engineer for Freddie And The Dreamers for many years until he moved on to better things ('Swan Lake On Ice' IIRC).

[Minstrel SE]

It does seem to have become homogenous and more cynical. Darker but still very shallow if I even understand what I'm getting at.

It will be my age talking and I understand that. I long for the days of the true crap novelty record like the Wurzels. A bit of Dee D Jackson automatic lover which actually sounds pretty good compared to this recent stuff :D. Baccara...now we are talking.

Even Madonna seems to have way more merit than this current stuff...heck even Britney Spears :) and thats saying something. I wonder what the next generation will be into to get one up on their parents.

We knew where we were when Abba were around :D I would force these kids to listen to some Nat King Cole :)

More seriously a good weekend with Bob Dylan until they learn :)

[Arkless Electronics]

Hi

I feel I need to start a thread about what I feel is the dire nature of most pop music these days.

I refer to artists like Sia, Katy Perry, Ariana Grande and all related "artists" in this pop production machine. I just think its rubbish. It pretends to have depth and soul but I feel its as shallow and throwaway as yesterdays chip paper.

It just seems to be packing in all the latest autotune and digital effects but it has no real melody or lasting impression. Maybe a melody is buried in there somewhere. The lyrics are overblown and over dramatic. Has nobody told them that less is more! I may be generalising but I cant seem to like any of it. Has it just got more cynical in ticking the boxes?

The music just seems to be narcissistic in a more cynical industry concerned purely with the money. It seems to serve a look at me, self interested generation totally out of control. Its all me, me me and this seems to be reflected in shallow lyrics which pretend to be anthemic but are just naff. Is it aimed at kids only as I thought I would like some of it? :)

Is it me? Was pop music always this way or will the younger generation eventually return to better music from an earlier date :)

Heck I've tried this weekend to like something. I heard the Harry Styles one in the pub and thought that's ok on a first listen. However as soon as I realised it was him and heard it again, I didn't like it and thought it was ultra shallow/naff. Is that my prejudice showing as a fifty year old bloke?

I supose I've now become my dad. I will take a bit of Melanie or the Bulgarian womens choir anyday over this naff pop music which seems to have rapidly declined since the turn of the Millenium :) Lets discuss it

Best wishes
Martin

I completely agree! I also say bollocks to the idea that "it's an age thing"! If it is merely that one is somehow programmed to like the stuff from when you were 16 or so years old then how come so much of the stuff I rate highly is from before I was old enough to remember it when it was first released!?

Any one with lug 'oles can compare the best in the charts from say 1971 with that from 2017 and it doesn't go well for the latter shite!

IMHO the music has little to do with it these days... celebrity, "image" and fashion is what it's about and the "music" is a mere setting for the video...

Lots of stuff has so much auto tune on it the voice sounds barely human for a start... maybe deliberately as an "artistic choice" or maybe 'cos they can't sing in many cases...

The rot really set in around 1985-6 IMHO and Stock, Aitkin and Waterman have a lot to answer for! They surely must shoulder a lot of the blame... The likes of "Two unlimited" and "Black Box" caused it to fester further....

[Stratmangler]

But then you have the occasional high spot.
Remember Kylie's version of Rob Davis' "Can't Get You Out Of My Head"?

Sheer genius, and a major earworm to boot!

[Anthony K]

I was not aware that annoying Kylie track was a cover
Partly age , but agree the pop today is very vain and self centered.
And the gangster / slut appearance of the youth does not help
Saying that , there is enough great music around not to get too bothered

[Yomanze]

Listen to "Off The Wall" by Michael Jackson, or "1999" by Prince and I think we know what the answer is.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[mad-moon]

Hi

I feel I need to start a thread about what I feel is the dire nature of most pop music these days.

I refer to artists like Sia, Katy Perry, Ariana Grande and all related "artists" in this pop production machine. I just think its rubbish. It pretends to have depth and soul but I feel its as shallow and throwaway as yesterdays chip paper.

It just seems to be packing in all the latest autotune and digital effects but it has no real melody or lasting impression. Maybe a melody is buried in there somewhere. The lyrics are overblown and over dramatic. Has nobody told them that less is more! I may be generalising but I cant seem to like any of it. Has it just got more cynical in ticking the boxes?

The music just seems to be narcissistic in a more cynical industry concerned purely with the money. It seems to serve a look at me, self interested generation totally out of control. Its all me, me me and this seems to be reflected in shallow lyrics which pretend to be anthemic but are just naff. Is it aimed at kids only as I thought I would like some of it? :)

Is it me? Was pop music always this way or will the younger generation eventually return to better music from an earlier date :)

Heck I've tried this weekend to like something. I heard the Harry Styles one in the pub and thought that's ok on a first listen. However as soon as I realised it was him and heard it again, I didn't like it and thought it was ultra shallow/naff. Is that my prejudice showing as a fifty year old bloke?

I supose I've now become my dad. I will take a bit of Melanie or the Bulgarian womens choir anyday over this naff pop music which seems to have rapidly declined since the turn of the Millenium :) Lets discuss it

Best wishes
Martin

No...It's not you at all...the pop industry is absolutely shocking, with only a handfull of today's young artists, able to produce a good melody with meaningful lyrics..the 60,s 70,s and 80,s produced some great music, from musicians, who actually played instruments and could sing in tune... however there was some poor music back then too....but no where near the amount of rubbish there is today...

[Gaz]

I often wonder if any of today's offerings will become "classic albums" in 40 years time, in the same way as Dark Side, White Album, Led ZepI etc are today?

I guess the 70s churned out plenty of crap albums too but I'm not aware of anything as groundbreaking as DSOTM coming out in the last 20+ years.

[alphaGT]

I often wonder if any of today's offerings will become "classic albums" in 40 years time, in the same way as Dark Side, White Album, Led ZepI etc are today?

I guess the 70s churned out plenty of crap albums too but I'm not aware of anything as groundbreaking as DSOTM coming out in the last 20+ years.

I was recently thinking the same thing. I can’t recall a song from only 5 years ago? Not that I listen to Pop, but I am unaware of any truly classic albums being made? A few rare cases, Ozzy and Priest and Iron Maiden have made albums in recent years, but that’s not pop music. What about Jazz and Classical? Are there any good artists making works of art? Other than the score to Star Wars? Which, was written back in ‘76, now that I think.

Russell

[Primalsea]

Generally I would expect the availability of good new music of any genre to get better and better. Large record companies probably release music based on least commercial risk and not actual talent for the most part. With the quality of non-professional equipment available and the ability to make available online there is actually a lot of good stuff out there. I think many new artists really need savy marketing company rather than a record label these days.

[Pete The Cat]

I think it's worth remembering that there are (at least) a couple of ways of defining "pop music".

Where it's synonymous with mainstream daytime radio and especially singles charts, then it has become more homogenous and therefore poorer - e.g. the number of singles featuring the same merry-go-round of "featuring..." the same guest mates, or trends such as not having an intro before the vocals come in.

Where it means wider contemporary music the game has changed. Paul is spot on - Pro-Tools plus Bandcamp means that we now have the opposite challenge to yesteryear - there's too much "underground" music to digest. No chance of most of it being flagged to you by mainstream media, you have to get out there and discover it. Some of it is even free and lossless. Nice problem to have.

Pete

[alphaGT]

Of course there is good new music, but Pop Music is short for Popular, meaning top 40, radio fodder. What the main music promoters are producing for top 40 consumption now days has no staying power. Within a very short time they are forgotten, unless they got a TV commercial to pick it up! Or a part in a movie maybe.

Russell

[Mikeandvan]

It does seem to have become homogenous and more cynical. Darker but still very shallow if I even understand what I'm getting at.

It will be my age talking and I understand that. I long for the days of the true crap novelty record like the Wurzels. A bit of Dee D Jackson automatic lover which actually sounds pretty good compared to this recent stuff :D. Baccara...now we are talking.

Even Madonna seems to have way more merit than this current stuff...heck even Britney Spears :) and thats saying something. I wonder what the next generation will be into to get one up on their parents.

We knew where we were when Abba were around :D I would force these kids to listen to some Nat King Cole :)

More seriously a good weekend with Bob Dylan until they learn :)

Did somebody say Baccara? Yes sir, I can boogie!

[Mikeandvan]

This conversation could have been held 30 years ago, would have been the same, techno/house music + rubbish, no soul etc, what a load of crap, that music was superb, but todays popular music is just shite by comparison, its actually more old fashioned than music being made in the 90s. I love old popular music like jazz, soul, rock, etc, I also love techno, house etc, I cannot stand today music of tinny crap. It really is rubbish, I mean who wouldn't love to smash that fucking ukelele over mumfords head? Music today is so stale, 'Grime' - supposedly a cutting edge scene has been around since early 2000s, really!! Musical styles move a lot slower nowadays. Think of the early 80s and how quality music like Joy division, Madness, and The smiths made the top 10, what do we have now? I've just had a quick listen to some of the top 40, it really is hideous, todays generation are fucking pathetic.

[Macca]

Yeah well said Mike.

There's no sex, drugs and rock n roll attitude anymore. They're all clean living role models who care about the environment. And the music reflects that. I just thank god we had 30 good years (1965-1995).

[Tim]

You guys do know there's more music out there other than mainstream pop music don't you?

I'm listening to, going to see and enjoying far more music than I ever did 40 years ago and there's far more out there, you just have to look for it.

From my mobile using Tapatalk

[struth]

Where's the next Val Doonegan that's what I want to know

[Pigmy Pony]

Where's the next Val Doonegan that's what I want to know

He's ditched his cardigan, dyed his hair ginger and changed his name to Ed.

[Macca]

You guys do know there's more music out there other than mainstream pop music don't you?

I'm listening to, going to see and enjoying far more music than I ever did 40 years ago and there's far more out there, you just have to look for it.



I guess I'm not enthusiastic enough to do that. I do follow up people's recommendations on here and other forums but 99 out of 100 times I'm unimpressed.

In the old days it was simple, labels were the gatekeepers and if the artist was not genuinely above the crowd in talent and ability then they didn't get signed (obviously there were a few exceptions). Making a proper recording was expensive and even if you did have your own £100K studio you would still not be able to get your record distributed.


Now anyone can make a quality recording quite cheap and distribute it over the internet so there are no gatekeepers anymore, everything is out there at the click of a button, good and rubbish. I can't be arsed to wade through it all looking for the gems. I knew it was the end when they cancelled Top Of The Pops. Jimmy Savile on the last ever episode, shaking his head as he turned out the lights. He knew what was happening and how it was all going to change for the worse.


However the real problem is what I said previously. Younger generation have it too easy now. You can't play the blues if you ain't paid your dues.

[Spectral Morn]

I guess I'm not enthusiastic enough to do that. I do follow up people's recommendations on here and other forums but 99 out of 100 times I'm unimpressed.

In the old days it was simple, labels were the gatekeepers and if the artist was not genuinely above the crowd in talent and ability then they didn't get signed (obviously there were a few exceptions). Making a proper recording was expensive and even if you did have your own £100K studio you would still not be able to get your record distributed.


Now anyone can make a quality recording quite cheap and distribute it over the internet so there are no gatekeepers anymore, everything is out there at the click of a button, good and rubbish. I can't be arsed to wade through it all looking for the gems. I knew it was the end when they cancelled Top Of The Pops ........ on the last ever episode, shaking his head as he turned out the lights. He knew what was happening and how it was all going to change for the worse.


However the real problem is what I said previously. Younger generation have it too easy now. You can't play the blues if you ain't paid your dues.

I know its a historical event but mentioning that animal makes me feel sick.

[AJSki2fly]

Hi

I feel I need to start a thread about what I feel is the dire nature of most pop music these days.

Best wishes
Martin

Have a listen to these classed as pop, I think all quite good in their own way, and Snow Patrol is classified as Pop/Rock, and their new single is definitely that. Whether you like them or not is a different matter.

Boy Pable - Soy Pablo

https://img.discogs.com/jc6AEJSQfrYsbU--h6MxICv72BI=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():qualit y(90)/discogs-images/R-12612981-1538596282-9126.jpeg.jpg


Birdy - Beautiful Song

https://img.discogs.com/5XrMqoevrwJxUeP8lw1L7RozWG4=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():qualit y(90)/discogs-images/R-8288284-1458970816-8197.jpeg.jpg


Snow Patrol - Wildness

https://img.discogs.com/UKWCK22f2-kF05GKg1VMeueVF4k=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():qualit y(90)/discogs-images/R-12047581-1527254735-9401.jpeg.jpg

[Macca]

Sorry man, none of them do anything for me.

[AJSki2fly]

Sorry man, none of them do anything for me.

It would be a boring world if we all liked the same thing.

[Macca]

It would be a boring world if we all liked the same thing.

Very true. I'm under no illusion that it's anything but personal taste. They just don't make the sort of music I like anymore. Or maybe it's all been done already anyway.


Thing is when we are young and the world is new it's a lot easier to be impressed. After half a century it's very hard to get anything more than a 'meh' from me about anything 'new'. I still love the music I grew up with but that's because it's the music I grew up with. It's imprinted.

[struth]

Very true. I'm under no illusion that it's anything but personal taste. They just don't make the sort of music I like anymore. Or maybe it's all been done already anyway.


Thing is when we are young and the world is new it's a lot easier to be impressed. After half a century it's very hard to get anything more than a 'meh' from me about anything 'new'. I still love the music I grew up with but that's because it's the music I grew up with. It's imprinted.

i used to think that, and still do up to a point, but there is some decent new stuff to suit even me:D

[AJSki2fly]

View Post
It would be a boring world if we all liked the same thing.



Very true. I'm under no illusion that it's anything but personal taste. They just don't make the sort of music I like anymore. Or maybe it's all been done already anyway.


Thing is when we are young and the world is new it's a lot easier to be impressed. After half a century it's very hard to get anything more than a 'meh' from me about anything 'new'. I still love the music I grew up with but that's because it's the music I grew up with. It's imprinted.

I agree we all love what we grew up with and I am just as guilty as anyone, of 985 LP's, 4 from 50's, 96 are from 60's, 536 from 70's, 315 from 80's, 21 from 90's and 12 from 2000's. CD's I have 2 from 50's, 31 from 60's, 192 from 70's, 133 from 80's, 218 from 90's, 99 from 2000's.

Totals
50's - 6
60's - 127
70's - 728
80's - 448
90's - 239
2000's - 212

About 147 are duplicated CD and Vinyl, as I wanted vinyl copies, there are a load more digital files, some are albums, some are random tracks or compilations.

The above are mix of lots of genres, certainly the popular ones, Rap, Hip-hop and modern R&B I can't get my head around.

I was born in 58, but my older cousin introduced me to music when I was about 8, so started listening to Beatles, Stones, Monkees, Moody Blues, Hendrix, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Kinks, Supremes, and Radio Caroline etc. you get the idea, and then I grew up with prog rock, and HM.

So as you can see from the above I favour 70's and 80's, but have a reasonable selection for 90's and 2000's. I do agree I find it harder to find new music/artists that capture my heart or attention, but there is some good stuff out there.


Try these out if you don't know them, you might be surprised.

Crippled Black Phoenix - Great Escape (love this, prescribed as heavy rock, but I don't think so)
Shame - Songs of Praise (a post punk band but rather good)
Rival Sons - Hollow Bones (Blues rock)
Michael Kiwanuka - Love & Hate (wonderful soul/blues)
Eivør Pálsdóttir - Slør
Beck - Morning Phase
Beck - Sea Change
The Wilderness of Manitoba - When you Left the Fire (or any of their other albums)

Cheers Adrian

[oldius]

No.

[Mikeandvan]

I agree we all love what we grew up with and I am just as guilty as anyone, of 985 LP's, 4 from 50's, 96 are from 60's, 536 from 70's, 315 from 80's, 21 from 90's and 12 from 2000's. CD's I have 2 from 50's, 31 from 60's, 192 from 70's, 133 from 80's, 218 from 90's, 99 from 2000's.

Totals
50's - 6
60's - 127
70's - 728
80's - 448
90's - 239
2000's - 212

About 147 are duplicated CD and Vinyl, as I wanted vinyl copies, there are a load more digital files, some are albums, some are random tracks or compilations.

The above are mix of lots of genres, certainly the popular ones, Rap, Hip-hop and modern R&B I can't get my head around.

I was born in 58, but my older cousin introduced me to music when I was about 8, so started listening to Beatles, Stones, Monkees, Moody Blues, Hendrix, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Kinks, Supremes, and Radio Caroline etc. you get the idea, and then I grew up with prog rock, and HM.

So as you can see from the above I favour 70's and 80's, but have a reasonable selection for 90's and 2000's. I do agree I find it harder to find new music/artists that capture my heart or attention, but there is some good stuff out there.


Try these out if you don't know them, you might be surprised.

Crippled Black Phoenix - Great Escape (love this, prescribed as heavy rock, but I don't think so)
Shame - Songs of Praise (a post punk band but rather good)
Rival Sons - Hollow Bones (Blues rock)
Michael Kiwanuka - Love & Hate (wonderful soul/blues)
Eivør Pálsdóttir - Slør
Beck - Morning Phase
Beck - Sea Change
The Wilderness of Manitoba - When you Left the Fire (or any of their other albums)

Cheers Adrian

Beck is hardly a new artist, I love his LP from the 90s, Odelay? Classic.

[AJSki2fly]

Beck is hardly a new artist, I love his LP from the 90s, Odelay? Classic.

Yes that’s quite true, but I suspect probably new to some on here though. [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pigmy Pony]

I have quite a few Beck albums. My favourite is 'Guerolito', which is his 'Guero' album remixed. Even Mrs. P likes that one. 'The Information' I like too.

[Pigmy Pony]

Very true. I'm under no illusion that it's anything but personal taste. They just don't make the sort of music I like anymore. Or maybe it's all been done already anyway.


Thing is when we are young and the world is new it's a lot easier to be impressed. After half a century it's very hard to get anything more than a 'meh' from me about anything 'new'. I still love the music I grew up with but that's because it's the music I grew up with. It's imprinted.

Some new music I really like, but they are few and far between. And I'm too lazy to seek out stuff. Like Macca I'm more inclined to try recommendations on here.

Anyway, there's still plenty of earlier stuff I still haven't touched upon, enough to keep me going into my dotage. Like Steely Dan's 'Aja' which somehow passed me by till I bought a copy last year - always liked the Dan, but not heard all their stuff.

[Macca]

All Dan is absolutely essential.

[AJSki2fly]

Like Steely Dan's 'Aja' which somehow passed me by till I bought a copy last year - always liked the Dan, but not heard all their stuff.

I was glad I was sitting down, I nearly fell of my chair.:eek:

[Pigmy Pony]

I know it must be a bit of a shock, AOS member who's never heard 'Aja'! Here's another shocker - I still need Pretzel Logic and Can't buy A Thrill to complete. But this kind of stuff I prefer to get on vinyl, so it's a slow process.

[struth]

Amazon have Aja on sale on vinyl. Great cover20£

[Minstrel SE]

I have concluded that it is an age thing and I wonder what will cheese off the young generation when their kids come along :)...because that will happen to some degree.

You guys have already mentioned that this is a topic that has carried on through the generations

I see young students with Hendrix and Beatles posters in their student digs but they will still list their main interests as Ed Sheeran or Minaj for example.

I found myself with strange and condescending thoughts that the young know nothing about music which cant be fair as they listen to lots of stuff they seem to like. I instantly dont want to go near it but that again is probably unfair. They tend to think I know nothing about their scene which is probably true. What niggles is they will mention say Birdy as if Im a grandad that needs help to understand the better new music..as if I need educating about music and not them :)

What hurts me is that Joy Division The Smiths or The Fall doesnt seem to register with them as if time has moved on.. Indeed it has but how dare they not recognise the seminal music which changed my life :D

I just think I am harder to impress now as Ive heard so much music. Have I become wiser? I like Opera now and find a good production very moving

[Sherwood]

Yes I was thinking that it is probably me.

Im not sure I even like the term "pop" music as I would like to think most of my tastes are more exclusive than that. I suppose its no different to when they were trying to ban Elvis Presley records. :)

I realise there has always been pop music around that Im not going to like. I tell you though that I would prefer the rubbish pop of yesteryear any day of the week.

Oh well I will just have to try and enjoy my period of life when Im shouting up the stairs to turn that awful racket down :)

You could hear what they were saying in my day (1980s) and sing along :D

HMMMM! are you sure?

CONSIDER:

"we're the young generation and we've got something to say" .......... HEY HEY WE'RE THE MONKEYS!

Very meaningful!

OR,

"Got a pound of gelatine!" I'M GONNA MAKE A BIG TRIFLE!

Popular music has always been about money. The so-called charts were always rigged and the industry ran on backhanders and payola. We remember the better tunes of our youth but conveniently forget all the banal crap that formed the majority of the industry, and the manufactured acts that were foisted on us. Have you watched any of the TOTP repeats on BBC Four?

Technology has changed and very good artists no longer need record companies to make a decent living or to be constrained by the album format. I hear great new music every week both live and on streaming services.

Geoff

[AJSki2fly]

Popular music has been around for a long time in different guises, and in most cases has been about money. Think about all the classical composers who wrote compositions for various kings, queens, and high society through the years, some of their offerings becoming favourites to many but not necessarily to the masses as today.

Then we move into the 20’s and 30’s with blues, jazz, and various big bands coming along. Music was then popularised by radio and written music. It became more accessible to the masses and became more of an industry. And of course records came along. What was previously popular music before became categorised under the classical umbrella. Oh I forgotten to mention popular folk music which is a subject in itself whichever side of the pond you live.

So music evolved and the 50s/60’s came with pop(ular) music and rock music of various varieties. And the circle turns again and we now talk about classic rock, just what it is I’m not sure. For me pop or popular music is any music which is listened to by many for a period in time, whether it remains popular only time will tell.

[Pigmy Pony]

HMMMM! are you sure?

CONSIDER:

"we're the young generation and we've got something to say" .......... HEY HEY WE'RE THE MONKEYS!

Very meaningful!

OR,

"Got a pound of gelatine!" I'M GONNA MAKE A BIG TRIFLE!

Popular music has always been about money. The so-called charts were always rigged and the industry ran on backhanders and payola. We remember the better tunes of our youth but conveniently forget all the banal crap that formed the majority of the industry, and the manufactured acts that were foisted on us. Have you watched any of the TOTP repeats on BBC Four?

Technology has changed and very good artists no longer need record companies to make a decent living or to be constrained by the album format. I hear great new music every week both live and on streaming services.

Geoff

What's a-madda you, hey! Gadda no respect, hey! Whadda-you think you do, hey! Why you looka so sad!

Oh and no one knows how much gelatine they had - I believe the words were: 'Gunpowder, gelatine'. And it may have been for a nice juicy meat pie rather than a trifle. Lyrics of yesteryear really made you think.

[AJSki2fly]

HMMMM! are you sure?

CONSIDER:

"we're the young generation and we've got something to say" .......... HEY HEY WE'RE THE MONKEYS!

Very meaningful!

OR,

"Got a pound of gelatine!" I'M GONNA MAKE A BIG TRIFLE!

Popular music has always been about money. The so-called charts were always rigged and the industry ran on backhanders and payola. We remember the better tunes of our youth but conveniently forget all the banal crap that formed the majority of the industry, and the manufactured acts that were foisted on us. Have you watched any of the TOTP repeats on BBC Four?

Technology has changed and very good artists no longer need record companies to make a decent living or to be constrained by the album format. I hear great new music every week both live and on streaming services.

Geoff

Well, I stand up next to a mountain
And I chop it down with the edge of my hand



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sherwood]

What's a-madda you, hey! Gadda no respect, hey! Whadda-you think you do, hey! Why you looka so sad!

Oh and no one knows how much gelatine they had - I believe the words were: 'Gunpowder, gelatine'. And it may have been for a nice juicy meat pie rather than a trifle. Lyrics of yesteryear really made you think.

... and what was it with Sting and Sue Lawley?

[Marco]

All Dan is absolutely essential.

:eyebrows::eyebrows:

I've got every one of their albums (mostly on vinyl), but can't think of the last time I played any!

These days, I prefer listening to new stuff - and that's 'new', as in brand new, or simply 'new to me'. In that respect, I've been listening to a band called Eels. Just melodic rock/pop, nothing too heavy, but quite groovy:)

Marco.

[Sherwood]

I know it must be a bit of a shock, AOS member who's never heard 'Aja'! Here's another shocker - I still need Pretzel Logic and Can't buy A Thrill to complete. But this kind of stuff I prefer to get on vinyl, so it's a slow process.

I have some Steely Dan on vinyl I might be tempted to part with ...

Including one audiophile pressing ....

[struth]

:eyebrows::eyebrows:

I've got every one of their albums (mostly on vinyl), but can't think of the last time I played any!

These days, I prefer listening to new stuff - and that's 'new', as in brand new, or 'new to me'.

Marco.

got a couple on cd. its not my first line of music, but i do like them to a point. their stuff is well done.

[Marco]

The musical 'dinosaurs' here among us should check out some of this stuff: https://www.indieisnotagenre.com/new-albums-2018/

...and stop just living in the past;)

Marco.

[struth]

i try to listen to some of the new stuff on tidal every week. i occasionally find a gem or two

[Marco]

Cool... That's what *everyone* should be doing and EXPANDING their musical horizons, not just listening to the 'same old, same old'! Dat's BOoooRRRINNNGGG...

:exactly:

Marco.

[Pigmy Pony]

My Christmas list always includes some 'new to me' music - this year it will include Blue Rose Code, Orbital and David Byrne. And in recent years I've found car boot sales to be a good way to 'experiment' cheaply.

[Pigmy Pony]

The musical 'dinosaurs' here among us should check out some of this stuff: https://www.indieisnotagenre.com/new-albums-2018/

...and stop just living in the past;)

Marco.

Nowt wrong with a bit of Tull :D

[Pigmy Pony]

I have some Steely Dan on vinyl I might be tempted to part with ...

Including one audiophile pressing ....

Hi Geoff, if you can bear to part with the two steely Dan titles I mentioned, I'm definitely interested!

[Marco]

Nowt wrong with a bit of Tull :D

Indeed, sometimes that might just hit the spot, but as long as that (and other stuff of the same ilk) is not ALL you listen to!;)

One minute I can go from some Stravinsky to boogying down to Sister Sledge:dance::eyebrows:

Marco.

[Pigmy Pony]

Yes I heard you swing both ways :D

'Eels' is going to be a 'new to you' one - they've been around a while. I have one of theirs ('Beautiful Freak') which contains their hit 'Susan's House'. Not played it in a long time, but now you've put them in my head I may have to now.

You may be surprised to learn my tastes are fairly wide-ranging, but don't stretch to classical yet. Nothing against it, I just wouldn't know where to start.

[Marco]

Yes I heard you swing both ways :D


Haha, depends on the party!:eyebrows:


'Eels' is going to be a 'new to you' one - they've been around a while. I have one of theirs ('Beautiful Freak') which contains their hit 'Susan's House'. Not played it in a long time, but now you've put them in my head I may have to now.


Yups, no worries. I'd heard the name, but not really any of their stuff, until I investigated further.


You may be surprised to learn my tastes are fairly wide-ranging, but don't stretch to classical yet. Nothing against it, I just wouldn't know where to start.

Well, why not start with something you've heard that you've liked (such as perhaps any of the famous pieces providing musical scores for films/adverts and stuff), and explore more works from that composer? That's a good way to start, after which it may lead you onto a journey of classical music adventures...

I only got into classical music, in any serious way, around 2001, after Del and I attended a ballet performance of The Nutcracker. I wouldn't have entertained it before that, as for me, it was something only 'old fogies' (and snobs) liked.

Something just clicked whilst watching that live performance (no it wasn't the pink tutus, lol) and I enjoyed the music so much that I experimented further with the genre and then became hooked on it:)

Marco.

[Sherwood]

I have some Steely Dan on vinyl I might be tempted to part with ...

Including one audiophile pressing ....

Just checked and the albums are both compilations. The first is Gold the MCA Audiophile Pressing. The second is the double gatefold album Greatest Hits. Would prefer to sell both at same time. PM if interested. Can send some pics tonight.

Geoff

[Pigmy Pony]

Your suggestion about musical scores sounds like a good idea, I sometimes hear pieces in adverts and TV which I quite like. Though the music is usually not credited. I have 'Shazam' on my phone these days, so maybe that can help.

[Pigmy Pony]

Just checked and the albums are both compilations. The first is Gold the MCA Audiophile Pressing. The second is the double gatefold album Greatest Hits. Would prefer to sell both at same time. PM if interested. Can send some pics tonight.

Geoff

Thanks Geoff, but I was just after 'Pretzel Logic' and 'Can't Buy A Thrill'. I tend not to get 'Best Ofs' unless it's someone I'm only slightly interested in.

[Marco]

Your suggestion about musical scores sounds like a good idea, I sometimes hear pieces in adverts and TV which I quite like. Though the music is usually not credited. I have 'Shazam' on my phone these days, so maybe that can help.

Yup, give it a go and see how you get on. I find many forms of classical music very calming and relaxing to listen to, and so perfect for de-stressing after a long day - not that I'm often stressed!;)

I also love the darker stuff, such as much of the work of Shostakovich and Wagner.

Marco.

[mightymonoped]

I can't keep up with all the outstanding new music out there

Same here! But here's one of the ways I try....

Make friends with Spotify's Discovery Playlist (updated each week on Monday). I listen to it driving to and from work in my car. Anything that flickers a spark of interest or intrigue gets saved by clicking on the "+" symbol.

I then go back to the list at leisure and review what I have saved, some are kept, some are explored deeper, some lead to other places, some are just ditched.

Do this methodically for a few weeks and you will find that the 'gems' offered in the Discovery Playlist are more frequent, and you will also start to see familiar names and links cropping up everywhere.

Once you have been doing this for a while, I would be surprised if the balance of your listening doesn't change between 'old' and 'new' (I reckon mine is probably 80/20 new/old these days).

Unless, of course, you are determined that your musical preferences WILL NOT change. In which case, I wish you all the best in your musical cell.

[AJSki2fly]

I have some Steely Dan on vinyl I might be tempted to part with ...

Including one audiophile pressing ....

PM sent

[Marco]

Unless, of course, you are determined that your musical preferences WILL NOT change. In which case, I wish you all the best in your musical cell.

:lolsign:

Aye, and there are a few such 'inmates' posting on hi-fi forums!;)

Marco.

[Puffin]

Thanks Geoff, but I was just after 'Pretzel Logic' and 'Can't Buy A Thrill'. I tend not to get 'Best Ofs' unless it's someone I'm only slightly interested in.

I have a copy of Pretzel Logic which I bought second hand many years ago and from memory I have never played. Not sure of the condition, but I can check if you are interested. I don't have a turntable anymore:eek::eek: so you can have it for the cost of a doodah cardboard thing to send it in (can you buy them singly - or would a cut up cardboard box do the same thing?) and the postage.

[Sherwood]

A bit of both I guess. music is not as good as when I was young, or for that matter my parents. Thats not to say there are not good things going on today, but the quality is not there over all. I doubt many of the current acts will be remembered fondly in 50 years. Good music often comes from poverty and hardship, and there is not so much of that in west now. a bit like football stars. when we were young we played with a tennis ball and your skills became better for it.

I grew up in the 60s and 70s, so much of the music that I listened to then would have been made by post war babies. Growing up in London, I still remember lots of bomb sites and gaps in terraced housing from bomb damage, even up to the mid 70s. My parents both worked hard, my father in two jobs as a chef. What I do not remember is mass homelessness and deep poverty. Even when my father died (when I was 10) the welfare state ensured that my mother had enough to raise two boys as a single mother. I was able to complete school and went to Uni with no fees and on a full grant. I doubt therefore that much of the music of the 70's and 80's, for example, was forged in conditions of poverty. Debauchery, perhaps, poverty no. I do not think that this applies today. As the UN recently reported, there is extensive poverty in Britain today, and it is not limited to the jobless or homeless. Even those in paid work find that their wages do not see them through to the end of the month. Whether this will be reflected in today's music remains to be seen.

Geoff

[Macca]

I grew up in the 60s and 70s, so much of the music that I listened to then would have been made by post war babies. Growing up in London, I still remember lots of bomb sites and gaps in terraced housing from bomb damage, even up to the mid 70s. My parents both worked hard, my father in two jobs as a chef. What I do not remember is mass homelessness and deep poverty. Even when my father died (when I was 10) the welfare state ensured that my mother had enough to raise two boys as a single mother. I was able to complete school and went to Uni with no fees and on a full grant. I doubt therefore that much of the music of the 70's and 80's, for example, was forged in conditions of poverty. Debauchery, perhaps, poverty no. I do not think that this applies today. As the UN recently reported, there is extensive poverty in Britain today, and it is not limited to the jobless or homeless. Even those in paid work find that their wages do not see them through to the end of the month. Whether this will be reflected in today's music remains to be seen.

Geoff

I think you are forgetting that there is a difference between absolute poverty and relative poverty.

However I agree that poverty is the wrong word, if you were living in poverty how would you afford instruments, or to rent a practice room? It was a chance to escape a life spent doing something dull in a factory or an office. I think the reason the same motivator does not exist today is because youngsters have broader horizons and don't see themselves ending up in a mundane job, even though the likelihood is they will. Back in the 1960s there was no doubt about it.

[Pigmy Pony]

Thanks Rob, that's a kind offer and I'm definitely interested. But I'm happy to pay you what you may think it's worth - I trust your judgement!

[Sherwood]

I think you are forgetting that there is a difference between absolute poverty and relative poverty.

However I agree that poverty is the wrong word, if you were living in poverty how would you afford instruments, or to rent a practice room? It was a chance to escape a life spent doing something dull in a factory or an office. I think the reason the same motivator does not exist today is because youngsters have broader horizons and don't see themselves ending up in a mundane job, even though the likelihood is they will. Back in the 1960s there was no doubt about it.

As a development economist who has spent the last 35 years working on international development and poverty I understand the difference and not just from an academic perspective. I have spent much of the last 20 years working on international health in some of the poorest countries in the world where the burden of disease and premature mortality (especially maternal and neonatal mortality) is greatest. Clearly, poverty in the UK is different to poverty in places like Malawi or Bangladesh. However, having come back to the UK due to ill health, I am struck by changes over the last 20 years that may be less obvious to those who have lived through them. Compared to my youth, younger people seem much more vulnerable to economic shocks and with less opportunity to make a decent life for themselves. They have been increasingly priced out of the housing market and have fewer opportunities for secure long term employment that pays them enough to meet their basic needs. Yes, consumer durables and technology is now much more affordable but not so much because wages have risen in real terms but because of productivity gains. My first new car purchased around 30 years ago (a Rover Metro) cost £7,500. A similar hatchback with much higher specs, performance and reliability (say a Hyundai i10) costs only a little more today. Similarly, when I left academia to set up as an independent consultant some 25 years ago, I recall spending £1,500 on a Toshiba T1200 notebook with monochrome LCD display and no hard drive.

Given a choice between being born around 1960 and 2000 I know which I would choose.

[Puffin]

Thanks Rob, that's a kind offer and I'm definitely interested. But I'm happy to pay you what you may think it's worth - I trust your judgement!

Ok, i'll have a look at it tomorrow - my man cave is a converted garage and it's dark outside::wowzer:

[Pigmy Pony]

I don't see how comparisons can be made between poverty 50 or 60 years ago and poverty today. Things that may have been seen as luxuries back then have since become essentials, such as a TV and a car. Back then poverty would have meant not putting food on the table, where now it means having to choose between food on the table or a smartphone, an Xbox and a big telly to play it on.

[Pigmy Pony]

Ok, i'll have a look at it tomorrow - my man cave is a converted garage and it's dark outside::wowzer:

Lucky you - my potential man cave has been converted into a nursery for visiting grandkids :(

[Macca]

I was born in 1968 and given the options I'd pick either 1960 or 2000 to be born in over 1968. 1968 was the worst of all worlds - the oil crisis was about to bring the economic party to an end, globalisation was about to turn full employment into mass unemployment. Too late to be around when the best music was being made, just the right age to come onto the labour market during a massive recession.

Never mind well-paid secure employment, we would have killed to even get a 'zero hours' contract. In fact I was unemployed for 4 years befoe I got a 'zero hours 'contract labouring (we were doing them before they even had a name for them) and my mate did 8 years on the dole before getting a job at the CAB (and he had to work there unpaid for four years to get that).

Yes houses were cheaper if you were in work but mortgage interest rates were around 10%, not 3% and with no job you had no chance of buying anything so the price of houses or indeed of anything was irrelevant.

About the only positive was that if you were going to be unemployed and therefore have time to explore the 'counter-culture' the early '90s was probably the best time to do it.


Actually scratch that, I'd pick 1960 first then 1968. Don't fancy 2000 on balance: growing up with no great music (Ed Sheeran FFS) insane levels of political correctness and the weird, sinister puritanism.

[Tim]

I'm shocked Martin, don't you like Ed Sheeran? :lol:

[Sherwood]

I was born in 1968 and given the options I'd pick either 1960 or 2000 to be born in over 1968. 1968 was the worst of all worlds - the oil crisis was about to bring the economic party to an end, globalisation was about to turn full employment into mass unemployment. Too late to be around when the best music was being made, just the right age to come onto the labour market during a massive recession.

Never mind well-paid secure employment, we would have killed to even get a 'zero hours' contract. In fact I was unemployed for 4 years befoe I got a 'zero hours 'contract labouring (we were doing them before they even had a name for them) and my mate did 8 years on the dole before getting a job at the CAB (and he had to work there unpaid for four years to get that).

Yes houses were cheaper if you were in work but mortgage interest rates were around 10%, not 3% and with no job you had no chance of buying anything so the price of houses or indeed of anything was irrelevant.

About the only positive was that if you were going to be unemployed and therefore have time to explore the 'counter-culture' the early '90s was probably the best time to do it.


Actually scratch that, I'd pick 1960 first then 1968. Don't fancy 2000 on balance: growing up with no great music (Ed Sheeran FFS) insane levels of political correctness and the weird, sinister puritanism.

I don't want to divert this thread further: my comment was a response to the suggestion that poverty is a driver of great music. My position was that most of the music of the 60's onwards has not been driven by poverty but that the current environment may see that change. However, a few brief points.

Yes there is absolute poverty where markers such as PEM (protein energy malnutrition and growth stunting) are clear evidence of an underlying problem. That exists even today and even in the UK.

However, there is no question that inequality has been rising inexorably for decades now. I won't bore readers with references to the research or data, but if you are interested just Google trends in income and wealth inequalities or look up this site https://youtu.be/xyprxOa1H1s

Perhaps more important are life expectations. Today, there are few young people who expect to be as well off as their parents, let alone better off. That, for me, is a frightening alert to inter generational conflict and social dystopia! Absolute or relative poverty is only part of social anomie. Fuck that: I'm an economist and you've got me referencing 19th century French sociologists!

Coming back on thread, I love the original "negro" blues of disenfranchised USA and understand and empathise with the despair it stemmed from. However, don't tell me that the blues of white middle class Englishmen was rooted in that pain and suffering. I still like the latter, but it demonstrates that a musical genre can be learned rather than lived!

[Sherwood]

I don't see how comparisons can be made between poverty 50 or 60 years ago and poverty today. Things that may have been seen as luxuries back then have since become essentials, such as a TV and a car. Back then poverty would have meant not putting food on the table, where now it means having to choose between food on the table or a smartphone, an Xbox and a big telly to play it on.

..and you don't think that there are families in the UK today who have one or two members in full time work and still can't put sufficient (decent) food on the table?

[Sherwood]

You know, although I assert that a lot of the top 40 of the 60's onwards was crap: I still have a soft spot for good hummable tunes. I still get a stupid smile when I hear tunes from Hermans Hermits, DDDBM&T, the Tremeloes, the DC5 and so on. A good tune is a good tune!

[Marco]

Lucky you - my potential man cave has been converted into a nursery for visiting grandkids :(

Lol...I trust that deep down you're happy with that arrangement?;)

Marco.

[Marco]

Why would it matter which year you were born? You wouldn't remember any of it!;)

Marco [didn't start caring what year it was until around 1970, and subsequently LOVED growing up in the 70s and 80s].

[Macca]

I don't want to divert this thread further: my comment was a response to the suggestion that poverty is a driver of great music. My position was that most of the music of the 60's onwards has not been driven by poverty but that the current environment may see that change. !

Actually I'd say the principle drivers of great music, art and literature -assuming the talent is there to begin with - are sex, alcohol and drugs. Not necessarily in that order. Although there are the odd exceptions of course.


I suppose it could be argued that hard times produce great art based on past performance but correlation is not causation. If they'd had a few more quid in their pockets down on the Delta would we still have had the Delta Blues? Or would that whole thing just not have happened (and possibly then rock music would never have happened either?). I think we still would have had the music, but some of the lyrics might have been different.

[Marco]

Actually I'd say the principle drivers of great music, art and literature -assuming the talent is there to begin with - are sex, alcohol and drugs.

I largely agree, but you're forgetting *the* biggest principle driver of all, for having created ALL kinds of music to date, great, indifferent or crap, and that's LOVE. As a subject in general, but especially when revolved around relationships or emotional heartbreak, one way or the other, it's influenced nearly every song ever written;)

Therefore, I'd replace sex with love, as it's far more relevant. Alcohol and drugs, however, is a much better shout, and spot on!:)

Marco.

[Sherwood]

Actually I'd say the principle drivers of great music, art and literature -assuming the talent is there to begin with - are sex, alcohol and drugs. Not necessarily in that order. Although there are the odd exceptions of course.


I suppose it could be argued that hard times produce great art based on past performance but correlation is not causation. If they'd had a few more quid in their pockets down on the Delta would we still have had the Delta Blues? Or would that whole thing just not have happened (and possibly then rock music would never have happened either?). I think we still would have had the music, but some of the lyrics might have been different.

IMHO the Chicago and Delta blues were born in oppression as much as, and possibly more, than poverty! To reduce it to a few more quid in their pockets completely misses the point and the suffering.

[Mikeandvan]

I always find it amusing when people talk about poverty and lack of opportunity for young people in the UK. Yes its so bad that young people from Eastern Europe come here to experience it for themselves.

[Macca]

I largely agree, but you're forgetting *the* biggest principle driver of all, for having created ALL kinds of music to date, great, indifferent or crap, and that's LOVE. As a subject in general, but especially when revolved around relationships or emotional heartbreak, one way or the other, it's influenced nearly every song ever written;)

Therefore, I'd replace sex with love, as it's far more relevant. Alcohol and drugs, however, is a much better shout, and spot on!:)

Marco.

I'm more cynical than you hence sex not love.

[struth]

I'm more cynical than you hence sex not love.

Famous folk have sex more, thats why you strive to be famous.:eyebrows:

[Macca]

IMHO the Chicago and Delta blues were born in oppression as much as, and possibly more, than poverty! To reduce it to a few more quid in their pockets completely misses the point and the suffering.

I was being deliberately flippant. My point is that for those people music was a big part of their African heritage so regardless of how hard it was for them or not they would still have been making music of some type or another. I'm not convinced that there is a proven connection between good music and hardship/oppression/ suffering.

[Marco]

I'm more cynical than you hence sex not love.

Lol... Perhaps that's because you've never known true love?;)

Marco.

[Sherwood]

I was being deliberately flippant. My point is that for those people music was a big part of their African heritage so regardless of how hard it was for them or not they would still have been making music of some type or another. I'm not convinced that there is a proven connection between good music and hardship/oppression/ suffering.

I agree. Hardship. poverty and oppression have clearly contributed heavily to particular genres, but inspiration, joy, and hope can be equally important in the creative process.

[Pigmy Pony]

..and you don't think that there are families in the UK today who have one or two members in full time work and still can't put sufficient (decent) food on the table?

Oh no Geoff, I totally agree, there are countless thousands who find themselves in this position, which is the old 'poverty trap', but probably worse than it's ever been. Personally I think the term 'poverty' should not only encompass people who are struggling to make ends meet, but also those who managing but are only a change in government policy or a change of circumstances away from real hardship.

My point was simply that drawing direct comparisons between now and 50 years ago is all but impossible as so much has changed, particularly in the way we see luxuries/essentials.

[Sherwood]

Oh no Geoff, I totally agree, there are countless thousands who find themselves in this position, which is the old 'poverty trap', but probably worse than it's ever been. Personally I think the term 'poverty' should not only encompass people who are struggling to make ends meet, but also those who managing but are only a change in government policy or a change of circumstances away from real hardship.

My point was simply that drawing direct comparisons between now and 50 years ago is all but impossible as so much has changed, particularly in the way we see luxuries/essentials.


For me the biggest change is about hope. When I was younger I always had the expectation that my life would be better than my parents, not least in material terms. However, the days of generous index linked pensions has long since passed and the prospects of being an owner-occupier are becoming increasingly slim, and only in mid life for many. There is little security in employment and for many, the reality that a full time job may not cover basic needs (e.g. food and housing for the family) or that an economic "shock" may drive you into poverty. The science programmes of the 60s and 70s promised that automation and robotics would give us more leisure time but forgot to mention that this would be due to unemployment.

Yes, technology and gadgets are more widely available and cheaper in real terms, but I was perfectly happy at the time with my first hifi and car. In fact, I only got a colour tv in my mid 20s after completing my studies. I was perfectly happy with a 12" b&w panasonic tv before then. It may be difficult to make direct comparison in terms of material possessions between then and now, but the adage that you don't miss what you never had rings true.

[Pigmy Pony]

I don't ever remember thinking that automation and robots would make our lives better - the only power the average working man (or woman) has is their capacity to do work, and to take this away can only leave us at the whim of whoever is wielding the big stick. The luddites were right all along!

[struth]

i know my dad was of the hope his sons wouldnt be drawn into another war like he was, and this shortened his life. he died before i was 21. jobs at that time were available and although he was a boss, he was staunchly labour, having been brought up in 20's when there was nothing. his first job was when he was about 8 clubbing pigs...such was the need for food

[Marco]

..and you don't think that there are families in the UK today who have one or two members in full time work and still can't put sufficient (decent) food on the table?


I think that would come down more to a lack of education (i.e. how to manage your finances properly and practice basic home-economics, knowing how to cook cheaply and healthily, etc), than the existence of genuine poverty.

If you've got a decent regular income coming into the household, and the folks in it are living within their means, not spending money they can't afford on booze and fags (or other addictions), in a property that they can afford to maintain (rent or pay a mortgage on - and if not, then why commit to it in the first place?) then given the above, you should be able to make it work.

Marco.

[Pigmy Pony]

Yes you'd think so, but the reality for many is that their 'full time' job is on zero hours contracts where they struggle to budget, let alone plan their future. And of course many are in the so-called 'gig' economy, which is a great way for employers to exploit their workers with long hours, unrealistic deadlines, and enables them to avoid certain employment laws.

If they have kids, the situation becomes even worse - have you seen the cost of childcare these days?

Probably never been a worse time to come from a poor background with an education that's often only as good as the most stupid, disruptive kids in the class. I'm glad to be past all that.

[AJSki2fly]

I think that would come down more to a lack of education (i.e. how to manage your finances properly and practice basic home-economics, knowing how to cook cheaply and healthily, etc), than the existence of genuine poverty.

If you've got a decent regular income coming into the household, and the folks in it are living within their means, not spending money they can't afford on booze and fags (or other addictions), in a property that they can afford to maintain (rent or pay a mortgage on - and if not, then why commit to it in the first place?) then given the above, you should be able to make it work.

Marco.

That's a bit of sweeping statement Marco. Yes I suspect that there are some that fall within your description but I hope that it is a minority. My wife was telling me of a radio program a few days ago which was discussing the very topic of poverty in the UK, one fact was that within the government definition of poverty 1 out of 5 children in this country are in a family that is below the poverty line whether working or not. They had a lady caller on who asked to remain anonymous as she did not want to be embarrassed at work. She was working in a full time time job, I think in a call centre, she had 2 children and because of low income she personally was living on baked beans and bread, and feeding her children better food to eat. I suspect that there are quite a percentage like her. There were other callers in a similar plight. I work in what can only be described as one of the icon retailers in the world, however I know many of my young colleagues some with families struggle to survive, they often have more than one job to supplement their income, and cannot afford to do anything else other than rent, which in turn costs them a fortune, oh and by the way the majority of them have good degrees.

So from what I see and from what I am told I would say that it is extremely hard for a lot more of the population nowadays than it was 20-30 years ago. You also need to consider that wages have been suppressed for the past 10 years which has also had a big impact, whether this was legitimate is another matter, based on the very high earnings that we see reported for the CEO's and executives of this world.

Thats my view for what its worth.

[Macca]

Are there any facts and figures to back all this up or is it just Guardian-reader style hand-wringing?

There's a few under-thirties here working with me. They've all got mortgages, decent cars and take foreign holidays. Some of them manage it even though they have young children too.

[AJSki2fly]

Are there any facts and figures to back all this up or is it just Guardian-reader style hand-wringing?

There's a few under-thirties here working with me. They've all got mortgages, decent cars and take foreign holidays. Some of them manage it even though they have young children too.

With respect Martin, I am not a Guardian reader, far from it, I come from a hard working background. I made my own way in the world and was fortunate enough to get on a government training scheme for IT programmers in early 80’s. My father made his way as a engineer through night school(something you can’t do know). I rose in my career to be in the top 1% of earners in the country for about 8 years, some of which was luck and being in the right place at the right time, but also from hard work and long hours. However I do believe there are far less opportunities for young people today.

Maybe your colleagues are the fortunate ones and are being paid well for their jobs or their partners are hard working too and have good jobs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sherwood]

I think that would come down more to a lack of education (i.e. how to manage your finances properly and practice basic home-economics, knowing how to cook cheaply and healthily, etc), than the existence of genuine poverty.

If you've got a decent regular income coming into the household, and the folks in it are living within their means, not spending money they can't afford on booze and fags (or other addictions), in a property that they can afford to maintain (rent or pay a mortgage on - and if not, then why commit to it in the first place?) then given the above, you should be able to make it work.

Marco.

Marco,

you have a very negative, almost Dickensian, view of poverty and the poor and dare I say it not a very Christian one. Yes, there are some idle wasters who play the system for benefits and have no sense of self reliance or self worth. However, that is a very small minority. I really am troubled by your portrayal of the poor as uneducated, drug addicted wasters.

Many homeless people and those living in poverty were driven there by an external shock or event not of their own making (e.g. illness, family breakdown, loss of employment).

Happy Christmas anyway!

[walpurgis]

With respect Martian

Who is Martian?

[AJSki2fly]

Who is Martian?

My typo mistake it's Martin

[Pigmy Pony]

I remember "My Favourite Martian" - he had antennae that would pop out of his head. Not sure if Macca can do that.

[Macca]

With respect Martin, I am not a Guardian reader, far from it, I come from a hard working background. I made my own way in the world and was fortunate enough to get on a government training scheme for IT programmers in early 80’s. My father made his way as a engineer through night school(something you can’t do know). I rose in my career to be in the top 1% of earners in the country for about 8 years, some of which was luck and being in the right place at the right time, but also from hard work and long hours. However I do believe there are far less opportunities for young people today.

Maybe your colleagues are the fortunate ones and are being paid well for their jobs or their partners are hard working too and have good jobs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was just asking for some data to back up the assertions being made, that's all.

My perspective is that young people have never had it so good, yours (and Geoff's) is that they struggle. I'm happy to accept that my perspective is skewed from reality since it is only my perspective. I was just wondering if the opposite view to mine is also from a personal perspective or based on some solid research/data.

[struth]

i think the, "there but for the grace of god, go i" is apt when describing people who dont have it good; and there are many. hard work and careful management of money is essential, but so is luck in being in right place at right time.
that's always been my view, even when dealing with the tramps and beggars you get on streets. if more did, im guessing bthen there may well be fewer.

[Pigmy Pony]

I was just asking for some data to back up the assertions being made, that's all.

My perspective is that young people have never had it so good, yours (and Geoff's) is that they struggle. I'm happy to accept that my perspective is skewed from reality since it is only my perspective. I was just wondering if the opposite view to mine is also from a personal perspective or based on some solid research/data.

And my post (#109) was just my perspective, based on what I've heard and read over the years, and also a radio programme a couple of days ago, probably the one Adrian's wife heard. I have no data to back it up.

But I have no reason to believe the so-called gig economy doesn't exist, nor zero hours contracts. Neither of these terms are going to look good on a mortgage application. Sometimes you just have to trust that what you are told is true. if you disbelieve everything, then you can learn nothing.

When I bought my first house in 1983, the mortgage guys would lend me 2 and a half times my salary (about 5k) plus one times my partner's. It just about reached the £14,500 price of the house. Blokes doing my job now make around £25,000 pa, and that first house is now worth £120,000, so it isn't unreasonable to deduce that getting on the property ladder is harder these days.

in other parts of the country (London and some of the more desirable places like the Lake District) it would be even tougher. The wealthy are making parts of our country too expensive by driving up property prices, what with all their bags of money. :(

[Sherwood]

Are there any facts and figures to back all this up or is it just Guardian-reader style hand-wringing?

There's a few under-thirties here working with me. They've all got mortgages, decent cars and take foreign holidays. Some of them manage it even though they have young children too.

Martin, there is plenty of data and evidence, both qualitative and quantitative. The rise in UK poverty needs to be seen as part of a global trend in recent decades towards a greater concentration of income and (particularly) wealth in the hands of a tiny tiny minority, and the tendency for wealth to grow faster than incomes (thereby reinforcing the concentration of wealth).

Regarding the UK evidence you could look at the Joseph Rowntree Trust reports, reports from the Institute of Fiscal Studies (IFS); the OECD or the recent UN report rejected by the UK government who would rather we focus on absolute poverty rather than relative poverty. Aside from those currently in poverty, there are increasing numbers of those classed as JAMs (just about managing) whose lives are blighted by the stress of being close to the edge and just one event from being sucked into poverty from which it is hard to escape. Just do a bit of Google if you want to find the reports and data.

[AJSki2fly]

I was just asking for some data to back up the assertions being made, that's all.

My perspective is that young people have never had it so good, yours (and Geoff's) is that they struggle. I'm happy to accept that my perspective is skewed from reality since it is only my perspective. I was just wondering if the opposite view to mine is also from a personal perspective or based on some solid research/data.

I am sure that there is a pile of data and statistics out there to argue one view or the other. I personally find government statistics are generally pretty questionable any way. We all know that stats can be slanted one way or the other by tweaking factors. A good example is the measurement of inflation, I think if you look at it over the years it has been tweaked several times. I believe originally it covered basic items required to live such as food, fuel, travel costs and basic clothing and few other items. I believe it now includes quite a few unnecessary additional items which in effect has the impact of lowering the average inflation rate, very sneaky.

[Marco]

Marco,

you have a very negative, almost Dickensian, view of poverty and the poor and dare I say it not a very Christian one. Yes, there are some idle wasters who play the system for benefits and have no sense of self reliance or self worth. However, that is a very small minority. I really am troubled by your portrayal of the poor as uneducated, drug addicted wasters.

Many homeless people and those living in poverty were driven there by an external shock or event not of their own making (e.g. illness, family breakdown, loss of employment).

Happy Christmas anyway!

:doh:

That's not what I said or meant! So I've no idea how you've interpreted it that way....Please don't paint me as someone I'm not.

My point was that if there are regular wages coming into the house, then if you know how to budget properly and feed yourself and your family cheaply and healthily, then you should be able to lead a reasonable life.

It's those (legitimately) living on benefits, with no such regular income, who are genuinely in the poverty trap and most likely to really struggle.

Marco.

[Sherwood]

I am sure that there is a pile of data and statistics out there to argue one view or the other. I personally find government statistics are generally pretty questionable any way. We all know that stats can be slanted one way or the other by tweaking factors. A good example is the measurement of inflation, I think if you look at it over the years it has been tweaked several times. I believe originally it covered basic items required to live such as food, fuel, travel costs and basic clothing and few other items. I believe it now includes quite a few unnecessary additional items which in effect has the impact of lowering the average inflation rate, very sneaky.

The best known measure is the Retail Price Index which tracks the price over time of a bundle of goods and services deemed to be typical of household spending patterns. Of course this has changed over time with some items being withdrawn from the bundle or substituted. More recently, the RPI has been supplemented by a similar measure, the Consumer Price Index, which uses a different formula to reflect that the actual bundle of goods purchased is likely to reflect relative price changes. For this reason, the CPi is typically lower than the RPI. It is funny to look back at what was in the RPI basket in earlier decades. https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160108054353/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/user-guidance/prices/cpi-and-rpi/cpi-and-rpi-basket-of-goods-and-services/index.html

I found it more informative to think in terms of the number of hours a median level wage earner needs to work in order to procure a good or service.

[Sherwood]

:doh:

That's not what I said or meant! So I've no idea how you've interpreted it that way....Please don't paint me as someone I'm not.

My point was that if there are regular wages coming into the house, then if you know how to budget properly and feed yourself and your family cheaply and healthily, then you should be able to lead a reasonable life.

It's those (legitimately) living on benefits, with no such regular income, who are genuinely in the poverty trap and most likely to really struggle.

Marco.

Again this is incorrect. The bulk of child poverty is amongst households with at least one household member in employment. Current government policy will increase these numbers further.

[Macca]

I am sure that there is a pile of data and statistics out there to argue one view or the other. I personally find government statistics are generally pretty questionable any way. We all know that stats can be slanted one way or the other by tweaking factors. .

Yes, that is pretty much my view as well, and every interpretation of the stats tends to have a political agenda behind it, one way or another.

One thing I have noticed over the years is that people who have spent all their lives in a comfortable middle-class environment tend to have unrealistic expectations as to the standard of living that the less well-of should be entitled to.

If you've always had money then the idea of not having much money seems terrifying. The term 'Just About Managing' pretty much sums that up. Fact is 99.999999 percent of the global population go through their lives 'just about managing' and don't think anything of it. The concept is only terrifying to the well-off.

[Marco]

Again this is incorrect. The bulk of child poverty is amongst households with at least one household member in employment. Current government policy will increase these numbers further.

It's not "incorrect", Geoff. It's my legitimate opinion, based on personal experience, so kindly respect that or we're liable to fall out. Therefore, I think it's best if we simply agree to disagree and move on.

This is the music side of the forum, so let's get back to discussing music!:cool:

Marco.

[Sherwood]

It's not "incorrect", Geoff. It's my legitimate opinion, based on personal experience, so kindly respect that or we're liable to fall out. Therefore, I think it's best if we simply agree to disagree and move on.

This is the music side of the forum, so let's get back to discussing music!:cool:

Marco.


Fine, but my comments are based upon evidence not personal opinion.

[AJSki2fly]

Yes, that is pretty much my view as well, and every interpretation of the stats tends to have a political agenda behind it, one way or another.

One thing I have noticed over the years is that people who have spent all their lives in a comfortable middle-class environment tend to have unrealistic expectations as to the standard of living that the less well-of should be entitled to.

If you've always had money then the idea of not having much money seems terrifying. The term 'Just About Managing' pretty much sums that up. Fact is 99.999999 percent of the global population go through their lives 'just about managing' and don't think anything of it. The concept is only terrifying to the well-off.

I think that for once we virtually agree.

What I find very sad is that a lot of people in western society have had it very good say in comparison the less well developed countries, and that can be miss-leading as well. If we just focus on the uk then part of the issue is that expectation levels of what is the norm and what people should aspire to own is not necessarily realistic. House ownership is becoming harder, ownership of a car in terms of vfm is good but if you can’t own a house then isn’t a car a luxury item. Then we have the myriads of hi tech goods, computers, tablets, mobile phones, multi media TVs and all the streaming and tv subscriptions that go along with, oh and then there is the must have broadband service, without this you are nobody. Sadly imo a lot of this stuff is unneeded but advertising and peer pressure tells us it is. Then we have the unreality shows that show extreme wealth and ownership of luxury goods and brand labels, giving the message without x y and z you are nobody, not a great message.

Even I am subject to it, I’m still on an iPhone 5s my second iphone from new in 9 years. My colleagues sneer and snigger at it and me saying I’m out of date and it’s old hat, really! Unfortunately the younger people are conditioned from an early age to have the newest and if possible the best, and that is not necessarily supported by quality or substance, but popularity.

Yes I have been guilty of this and probably still am in certain aspects, like most the more you have the more you spend, whether you need it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Marco]

Fine, but my comments are based upon evidence not personal opinion.

And so are mine. My 'evidence' comes from my life experiences. Much like with hi-fi, stats or 'facts' don't tell you everything! It's like having a cable discussion with an objectivist;)

So let's just move on and talk about music - and btw, that applies to everyone else. If you want to discuss the other stuff here, start a separate thread.

Marco.

[struth]

I think that for once we virtually agree.

What I find very sad is that a lot of people in western society have had it very good say in comparison the less well developed countries, and that can be miss-leading as well. If we just focus on the uk then part of the issue is that expectation levels of what is the norm and what people should aspire to own is not necessarily realistic. House ownership is becoming harder, ownership of a car in terms of vfm is good but if you can’t own a house then isn’t a car a luxury item. Then we have the myriads of hi tech goods, computers, tablets, mobile phones, multi media TVs and all the streaming and tv subscriptions that go along with, oh and then there is the must have broadband service, without this you are nobody. Sadly imo a lot of this stuff is unneeded but advertising and peer pressure tells us it is. Then we have the unreality shows that show extreme wealth and ownership of luxury goods and brand labels, giving the message without x y and z you are nobody, not a great message.

Even I am subject to it, I’m still on an iPhone 5s my second iphone from new in 9 years. My colleagues sneer and snigger at it and me saying I’m out of date and it’s old hat, really! Unfortunately the younger people are conditioned from an early age to have the newest and if possible the best, and that is not necessarily supported by quality or substance, but popularity.

Yes I have been guilty of this and probably still am in certain aspects, like most the more you have the more you spend, whether you need it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

fancy phone eh;)mine's a 5c; its poorer cousin. still does the job, and it was second hand too...lol

[Pigmy Pony]

Well I reckon that modern chart music is cack. What does everyone else think?

[Macca]

Even I am subject to it, I’m still on an iPhone 5s my second iphone from new in 9 years. My colleagues sneer and snigger at it and me saying I’m out of date and it’s old hat, really! Unfortunately the younger people are conditioned from an early age to have the newest and if possible the best, and that is not necessarily supported by quality or substance, but popularity.


Yes I get this too, I just laugh at them, I do actually find it really funny that people can be so tragic.

And having wandered about a few 'developing' countries I actually think that referring to 'poverty' in the UK is actually a bit of an insult to the people living in those places. By global standards no-one in the UK is 'poor' or 'in poverty'. Added to that there seems to be a whole industry of middle-class professionals making a tidy living off the back of the so-called UK poverty.

Anyway, enough of my ranting.

[AJSki2fly]

fancy phone eh;)mine's a 5c; its poorer cousin. still does the job, and it was second hand too...lol

Yep I as long as it works who cares, although I did go for the flash gold 5S, says it all really:lol:

Now back to more interesting stuff called music and hifi or even lofi :rolleyes:

[Pigmy Pony]

Music isn't standalone these days, but rather is just a part of the 'entertainment' industry, which includes films, TV. sport, computer games, online gambling, and I'm sure there are others. Perhaps there isn't the same level of passion in it that there was 30 or so years ago.

[Sherwood]

Music isn't standalone these days, but rather is just a part of the 'entertainment' industry, which includes films, TV. sport, computer games, online gambling, and I'm sure there are others. Perhaps there isn't the same level of passion in it that there was 30 or so years ago.

I've not played a computer game since Uni but there seems to be as much passion for computer games amongst today's generation as mine had for a decent hifi and records.

It's not that there is no passion, it's that the passion is for other competing uses of leisure time.

[Roy S]

fancy phone eh;)mine's a 5c; its poorer cousin. still does the job, and it was second hand too...lol

I got a 6 cheap off ebay & have a sim only contract (about £16 a month?), my other half has an 8 on contract, think she pays around £40 a month and I can't tell much difference between her phone & my phone & today's chart/pop music is pretty dire..

[struth]

football is same. nowhere near the people watching or playing now.. too many other distractions

[Pigmy Pony]

I've not played a computer game since Uni but there seems to be as much passion for computer games amongst today's generation as mine had for a decent hifi and records.

It's not that there is no passion, it's that the passion is for other competing uses of leisure time.

Yes that is what I meant.

[struth]

I got a 6 cheap off ebay & have a sim only contract (about £16 a month?), my other half has an 8 on contract, think she pays around £40 a month and I can't tell much difference between her phone & my phone & today's chart/pop music is pretty dire..

yup, ive got a sim from virgin. £12 a month. might be 13 now.. they phoned me up during black friday and said they would save a lot of money with a new phone. i said i could save a lot more by keeping my phone:ner:

[Pigmy Pony]

I got a 6 cheap off ebay & have a sim only contract (about £16 a month?), my other half has an 8 on contract, think she pays around £40 a month and I can't tell much difference between her phone & my phone & today's chart/pop music is pretty dire..

My iPhone 5 is a cast off from a family member and is more than good enough for me. I'm far too lazy to spend time learning all of its features, so no point upgrading. My sim-only contract is £13 a month (EE) and gives all the whatever that I need.

[Marco]

fancy phone eh;)mine's a 5c; its poorer cousin. still does the job, and it was second hand too...lol

Lol... I still don't even have a Smartphone - my mobile phone is more than 10 years old! Wonder what Adrian's sniggerers would think of me, eh?:D:doh:

I couldn't give a monkey's toss, and that's about the level of importance/relevance superficial tossers like that occupy. One thing that age and experience *should* bring is the self-assuredness and confidence not to give a fuck what anyone thinks of you (or how they judge you), and do what YOU want, what YOU think is right, regardless!

If you're still a victim of peer pressure, at 50 or above, sort yourself out.

Marco.

[Sherwood]

yup, ive got a sim from virgin. £12 a month. might be 13 now.. they phoned me up during black friday and said they would save a lot of money with a new phone. i said i could save a lot more by keeping my phone:ner:

I have always bought a SIM free phone and aim to keep it for 3 years or longer. I only really use my mobile for incoming calls and data so find that a £10 top up lasts me a month or two. The only time I buy a package is when I go overseas and buy a Three Network package with data roaming. Aside from purchasing the original Samsung Note when it first came out, I usually wait until a phone has been on the market for a while and is heavily discounted.

[struth]

Lol... I still don't even have a Smartphone - my mobile phone is more than 10 years old! Wonder what Adrian's sniggerers would think of me, eh?:D:doh:

I couldn't give a monkey's toss, and that's about the level of importance/relevance superficial tossers like that occupy. One thing that age and experience *should* bring is the self-assuredness and confidence not to give a fuck what anyone thinks of you (or how they judge you), and do what YOU want, what YOU think is right, regardless!

Marco.

mine does everything i need really. plus it cost me nowt as it was the boys.

[walpurgis]

Lol... I still don't even have a Smartphone - my mobile phone is more than 10 years old! Wonder what Adrian's sniggerers would think of me, eh?:D:doh:

Marco.

:lolsign:

My mobile is an old LG KC550 slider that must be getting on for twenty years old, as is the Tesco PAYG SIM card in it. I have no account and just top it up with a tenner a couple of times a year. I hardly use it and need nothing fancier.

[Marco]

mine does everything i need really. plus it cost me nowt as it was the boys.

Lol - I applaud your recycling regime:)

If anyone sniggered at me for not having an 'up to date' phone, once they'd been given a slap, I'd tell them that I don't need one because I've got a real life, not a virtual one!;)

Marco.

[Marco]

:lolsign:

My mobile is an old LG KC550 slider that must be getting on for twenty years old, as is the Tesco PAYG SIM card in it. I have no account and just top it up with a tenner a couple of times a year. I hardly use it and need nothing fancier.

Ha - same as me, pay-as-you-go... £20-30 credit can last me a year! I only take the phone with me when I go out in the car, simply for emergencies and/or keeping in touch with Del. For everything else, I have a laptop.

Marco.

[Pharos]

Re the thread, when I started an HND in Music Production we discussed the factors prompting creativity, these were starvation, illness, and drugs
But there must be a driver - an emotional need to express; suffering, sexual desire, oppression, insight into something - an epiphany, loss of love, shock of loss and others.

Yes, pop music has since about 1990 become facile egotistical, narcissistic, and vacuously devoid of any important meaning.

[AJSki2fly]

Re the thread, when I started an HND in Music Production we discussed the factors prompting creativity, these were starvation, illness, and drugs
But there must be a driver - an emotional need to express; suffering, sexual desire, oppression, insight into something - an epiphany, loss of love, shock of loss and others.

Yes, pop music has since about 1990 become facile egotistical, narcissistic, and vacuously devoid of any important meaning.

Personally I think the best pop songs of all time are Slade's - Merry Xmas Everybody and Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody. Full of Meaning :eyebrows:

[Sherwood]

I still like Richard Thompson's rendition of, "oops I did it again". A song about angst and regret! :clap:

[Marco]

Re the thread, when I started an HND in Music Production we discussed the factors prompting creativity, these were starvation, illness, and drugs
But there must be a driver - an emotional need to express; suffering, sexual desire, oppression, insight into something - an epiphany, loss of love, shock of loss and others.

Yes, pop music has since about 1990 become facile egotistical, narcissistic, and vacuously devoid of any important meaning.

I completely agree, but it's important to differentiate between "pop music" and the often (non-commercial) 'new music' that discerning young people might listen to, or even create themselves, and some of us 'oldies' might also appreciate and buy;)

The fact is, there's a lot of really good music out there like that, aside from the mindless dross you mention, which you simply won't encounter unless you actively seek it out.

Marco.

[Marco]

Personally I think the best pop songs of all time are Slade's - Merry Xmas Everybody and Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody. Full of Meaning :eyebrows:

Lol.... If we're talking about just good out-and-out pop tunes, which have stood the test of time, then for me it takes a lot to beat the classics, produced by Abba. They got the concept, from song writing to production, spot on.

Marco.

[Tim]

Said it before, but you don't have to listen to pop music. If you don't like it, don't listen to it . . . just sayin' :D

I'm not mad awful keen on Hip Hop, but I personally wouldn't call it crap just because I don't like it, there's a lot who do, does that make them any less worthy? If they buy it, play it and it gives them pleasure (and support the artist) that's good enough for me, they're listening to music.

Suum cuique.

(can't beat a good Abba song, Dancing Queen has to be one of the best pop songs of all time - classic)

[AJSki2fly]

And then of course there is the one hit wonders, Norman Greenbaums - Spirit in a the Sky comes to mind and still gets played.

[Mikeandvan]

The young do get clobbered with extortionate rents these days, the wages ain't so bad, but then mr and mrs landlord snatch away half their wages, its disgusting. And then you get these young Eastern Euros travelling miles to work in these conditions, weird!

[Pigmy Pony]

If an East European worker gets say, £300 pw here, it will have the buying power of probably about £6-700 pw back home. And many of these migrant workers 'house share' to keep their living costs down. I've worked at a few of these 'multi-occupancy' houses, and where nearly all the rooms are being used to sleep in. Some may even use the beds in shifts.

Personally I admire their determination to get out there and live and work in a foreign, sometimes hostile country in order to make a better life for their loved ones. I really wouldn't want to live like that, but then who knows what anyone will do when faced with those choices?

[Macca]

If an East European worker gets say, £300 pw here, it will have the buying power of probably about £6-700 pw back home. And many of these migrant workers 'house share' to keep their living costs down. I've worked at a few of these 'multi-occupancy' houses, and where nearly all the rooms are being used to sleep in. Some may even use the beds in shifts.


yep loads round here doing exactly that. If I was in my twenties and could go to Poland and do the same job for twice the money I'd at least think about it. I lived in shared houses until I was 30 anyway. No big deal. The savings made doing that helped me get a deposit together to buy. £500/month rent isn't so bad split 5 ways.

[Sherwood]

If an East European worker gets say, £300 pw here, it will have the buying power of probably about £6-700 pw back home. And many of these migrant workers 'house share' to keep their living costs down. I've worked at a few of these 'multi-occupancy' houses, and where nearly all the rooms are being used to sleep in. Some may even use the beds in shifts.

Personally I admire their determination to get out there and live and work in a foreign, sometimes hostile country in order to make a better life for their loved ones. I really wouldn't want to live like that, but then who knows what anyone will do when faced with those choices?

Precisely. It is madness to blame individuals taking perfectly legal steps to pursue a better life and to provide for their families, wherever they may be located. What is criminal, is for a government to make no provision to increase housing stock and capacity in education and social services despite sizeable and largely predictable increases in net migration over decades. I am not against immigration per se, or from any particular region or ethnicity. What I am against, is a policy which exploits the resident population by using a virtually limitless pool of overseas labour to drive down local wages and living standards.

[Pigmy Pony]

Anyway, the thread is wandering again, so just to ease it back into music by saying I have a CD by Pat Metheney and Anna Maria Jopek (Upojenie), A Polish woman with a really nice voice although I can't understand a word she says. Produced in 2008 so relatively modern.

If you listen to recent material by established artists, that will still count as new won't it?

[Sherwood]

Anyway, the thread is wandering again, so just to ease it back into music by saying I have a CD by Pat Metheney and Anna Maria Jopek (Upojenie), A Polish woman with a really nice voice although I can't understand a word she says. Produced in 2008 so relatively modern.

If you listen to recent material by established artists, that will still count as new won't it?

There are three categories of "new music":

a) New music by new artists
b) New music by established artists
c) Newly discovered old music

[Pigmy Pony]

Precisely. It is madness to blame individuals taking perfectly legal steps to pursue a better life and to provide for their families, wherever they may be located. What is criminal, is for a government to make no provision to increase housing stock and capacity in education and social services despite sizeable and largely predictable increases in net migration over decades. I am not against immigration per se, or from any particular region or ethnicity. What I am against, is a policy which exploits the resident population by using a virtually limitless pool of overseas labour to drive down local wages and living standards.

That's it in a nutshell I think. As long as migration can be carefully managed I'm sure there'll be room for all of us. We just need to be a bit more robust in dealing with the criminal element which seem to be finding us easy pickings.

[Tim]

Doesn't matter who produces it, how established they are or how old they are - new music is new music.

[Sherwood]

Doesn't matter who produces it, how established they are or how old they are - new music is new music.

Unfortunately, and with very few exceptions, new music by old artists rarely inspires me. When was the last great Stones album, or anything genuinely new by the great Van Morrison.

I respect Billy Joel who when asked why he had not produced a new album in decades said he had nothing more to say!

[Pigmy Pony]

There are three categories of "new music":

a) New music by new artists
b) New music by established artists
c) Newly discovered old music

Category (a) doesn't get much of a look in, perhaps 4 or 5 albums a year. But (b) and (c) have enough stuff to keep me going, so all good here!

But on a slightly depressing note, I look at my albums and CD's sitting there and think, "many of you I will never play again before I peg it". How's that for a cheery way to start the weekend?

[Pigmy Pony]

Doesn't matter who produces it, how established they are or how old they are - new music is new music.

Using those parameters I'd say about 90% of my purchases comprise new music then.

[Sherwood]

Category (a) doesn't get much of a look in, perhaps 4 or 5 albums a year. But (b) and (c) have enough stuff to keep me going, so all good here!

But on a slightly depressing note, I look at my albums and CD's sitting there and think, "many of you I will never play again before I peg it". How's that for a cheery way to start the weekend?

I find more and more new music in category a because I seek out new artists and go to live local gigs regularly. When I do find an artist I like, I use the internet to find related artists and content.

Much of my collection of vinyl and cds was bought on the basis of a couple of tracks I heard on the radio, only to be disappointed by most of the other tracks on the album. In hindsight, there are very few albums that I want to listen to start to finish. Even before the dawn of CD and digital, I had vinyl albums which I would only play one side (usually side A). If the track was in the middle of a side, I would listen to it, but only because I could not be arsed to get up and move the tonearm. I really cannot grasp the thinking of those who consider it necessary to listen to an album from start to finish as if it were some sacred ritual. I bought the music so allow me to listen to it how I want to.

[Pigmy Pony]

Unfortunately, and with very few exceptions, new music by old artists rarely inspires me. When was the last great Stones album, or anything genuinely new by the great Van Morrison.

I respect Billy Joel who when asked why he had not produced a new album in decades said he had nothing more to say!

Yes well there's old and there's OLD. Totally agree when it comes to the codgers, although I'm sure there will be one or two jazz musicians still doing good things. And I have a David Byrne albums winging its way towards me. Hardly in his first flush of youth, but I'm looking forward to it.

Pink Floyd's 'Endless River' never gets played :(

[Pigmy Pony]

I find more and more new music in category a because I seek out new artists and go to live local gigs regularly. When I do find an artist I like, I use the internet to find related artists and content.

Much of my collection of vinyl and cds was bought on the basis of a couple of tracks I heard on the radio, only to be disappointed by most of the other tracks on the album. In hindsight, there are very few albums that I want to listen to start to finish. Even before the dawn of CD and digital, I had vinyl albums which I would only play one side (usually side A). If the track was in the middle of a side, I would listen to it, but only because I could not be arsed to get up and move the tonearm. I really cannot grasp the thinking of those who consider it necessary to listen to an album from start to finish as if it were some sacred ritual. I bought the music so allow me to listen to it how I want to.

Hence the Steely Dan greatest hits albums! I totally get that, and a huge proportion of my vinyl is from the eighties, where I heard something I liked on the radio and went out and bought the album (I never bought singles and in any case my LP12 didn't do 45's and I never got round to sorting it).

These days, streaming services enable 'discovery' to be relatively risk-free and I'll get into it more eventually.

[Tim]

Well I think these are pretty good, especially Roll With the Punches.

I guess it depends on what you define as new? I personally view a new recording of an old song (if it's different) as new.

https://img.discogs.com/m5VzB9IebwuxWETADS5lDrrvpDQ=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():qualit y(40)/discogs-images/R-10895596-1506177438-9907.jpeg.jpg

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/712bWvi1fFL._SY355_.jpg

I feel sorry for the guys stuck in a rut and that's not intended to be patronising, I really do. I love music, I love how it evolves and the older I get the more I enjoy (old and new). I'm listening to and enjoying so many more genre's than I used to and when something new clicks, it opens up so many more doors. It's overwhelming at times and despite many hours of listening, I'm constantly discovering new music I love. I have to actually reign myself in at times so I can go back and listen to old stuff. In fact the more I discover the more I realise how little I know.

If you have a negative disposition that's not likely to change though and I perceive many of the posts in this thread as quite negative, especially calling music crap when you don't like it. I very much doubt SIA or Ariana Grande give much of a thought to 40 something audiophiles as they are writing their next song. I watched her charity show in Manchester and was overwhelmed, the pure joy on the faces of the people in that stadium was extremely moving - I didn't know any of her music but I can recognise talent when I see it.

I've been volunteering at End of the Road Festival for the last few years and I'm mixing with all sorts of music lovers there, as well as listening to many different genres' of music. Being in a field with people over 40 years younger than me, enjoying the music they love is not only infectious, but very uplifting. It's good for the soul in so many ways, but that's the power of music.

[Pigmy Pony]

I don't see the posts in this thread as necessarily negative - people just like what they like and may well have a particular genre they favour over others. I think of for instance 70's rock as a genre, and if there doesn't seem to be any current artists producing that kind of music then not caring for what is being produced isn't really negative.

Most of the criticism of new music has been directed at chart music, and with a few exceptions I agree with that. The rest of it is just grumpy old gits being grumpy old gits - it's what we're good at!

[Barry]

I find more and more new music in category a because I seek out new artists and go to live local gigs regularly. When I do find an artist I like, I use the internet to find related artists and content.

Much of my collection of vinyl and cds was bought on the basis of a couple of tracks I heard on the radio, only to be disappointed by most of the other tracks on the album. In hindsight, there are very few albums that I want to listen to start to finish. Even before the dawn of CD and digital, I had vinyl albums which I would only play one side (usually side A). If the track was in the middle of a side, I would listen to it, but only because I could not be arsed to get up and move the tonearm. I really cannot grasp the thinking of those who consider it necessary to listen to an album from start to finish as if it were some sacred ritual. I bought the music so allow me to listen to it how I want to.

Whilst at University I became friends with a fellow music lover. We would often visit one another to listen to LPs (all there was in those days: high quality audio cassette players were only just starting to emerge), and he was surprised to see that often I would only play one side of an LP - he seemed to think one had a moral duty to play the entire LP out of respect for the artist(e)!

I've come across similar sentiments and antipathy towards the playing of 'best of' or 'greatest hits' collections. In my experience, like Geoff's, I find there are very few albums where I want to listen to the whole performance; so I see no reason why I should buy a record just for a couple of tracks - hence I will often buy, at a later date, a best of collection.

[AJSki2fly]

I've come across similar sentiments and antipathy towards the playing of 'best of' or 'greatest hits' collections. In my experience, like Geoff's, I find there are very few albums where I want to listen to the whole performance.

Try Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon or Supertramp - Crime of the Century or Kate Bush - Hounds of Love

If you don’t like the whole album in each case thenyour lost I’m [emoji45]



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[Macca]

I do prefer to listen to the whole album but I'm not religious about it. No question some albums were intended by the artist to be listened to in full, DSOTM is a good example.


WRT greatest hits albums, I have all Steely Dan albums (except the last two) on vinyl and CD, also have the Greatest Hits album on vinyl and CD. I still like to listen to the Greatest Hits album sometimes. So what?

[Marco]

Interesting comments on such habits... I generally listen to whole albums, without skipping tracks, even when they contain songs I'm not so keen on, as sometimes they can be 'growers', so the more I listen to them, the more I may grow to like them, which has happened a few times:)

However, if they're complete 'no-nos', then I will skip tracks. Interestingly though, I'll generally only do that with CDs. Streaming surprisingly encourages me to play albums all the way through (I'm not really one for making up playlists), and I'll always listen to vinyl records all the way through, as I can't be arsed getting up to move the 'needle'...

Marco.

[Barry]

Try Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon or Supertramp - Crime of the Century or Kate Bush - Hounds of Love

If you don’t like the whole album in each case thenyour lost I’m [emoji45]

I have all of those recordings - and yes, in those cases I do play the whole album. But I don't neccessarily do the same for each and every record in my collection; nor do I feel any moral obligation to do so.

After all how much Gregorian chant can you listen to in one sitting?

[Sherwood]

I have all of those recordings - and yes, in those cases I do play the whole album. But I don't neccessarily do the same for each and every record in my collection; nor do I feel any moral obligation to do so.

After all how much Gregorian chant can you listen to in one sitting?

These are thematic albums where there is a progression of the musical idea or concept over 40 minutes. I don't think that these concept albums were as common in the 70s and 80s as some people think. There were far fewer where the music stood up over both sides without there being some naff track.

I have no problem with people preferring to listen to an album all the way through. I just don't see it as a "virtue". Increasingly, since digitising my cd collection and subscribing to streaming (currently Tidal) I have reverted to listening to music as I did many years ago. Then I would make up compilation tapes for the car or for my Walkman (typically a C90 cassette). I then bought one of the first CD burners to make similar compilation discs for the car. Now I have a number of thematic playlists to reflect a particular mood or genre. I also find myself listening to more curated playlists on Tidal, which is also a good way of discovering new music or new artists. Occasionally, I will challenge colleagues to suggest tracks for a theme (e.g. Songs for the Operating Theatre).

[AJSki2fly]

I also find myself listening to more curated playlists on Tidal, which is also a good way of discovering new music or new artists. Occasionally, I will challenge colleagues to suggest tracks for a theme (e.g. Songs for the Operating Theatre).

You should try songs for keeping warm to. ;)

[Stratmangler]

WRT greatest hits albums, I have all Steely Dan albums (except the last two) on vinyl and CD, also have the Greatest Hits album on vinyl and CD. I still like to listen to the Greatest Hits album sometimes. So what?

It's the only place you'll find their song FM listed, unless you have the soundtrack to the film FM.

[Sherwood]

You should try songs for keeping warm to. ;)

:mad::mad:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59pOE3OmUi8:mad::mad:

[AJSki2fly]

You should try songs for keeping warm to.


:mad::mad:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59pOE3OmUi8:mad::mad:

:lol::lol::king:

[Sherwood]

It's the only place you'll find their song FM listed, unless you have the soundtrack to the film FM.

I have just sold my vinyl MCA Audiophile Recording: Steely Dan Gold. FM is on that too.

[Sherwood]

You should try songs for keeping warm to. ;)

A little more obscure perhaps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQFJkJo3Iaw

You may sense I have had a little practice with this! :concertina:

[AJSki2fly]

You should try songs for keeping warm to.


A little more obscure perhaps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQFJkJo3Iaw

You may sense I have had a little practice with this! :concertina:

Time to get da rhythm https://youtu.be/BtJSCHDLfvc

:laugh:

[Sherwood]

My engineer has diagnosed my boiler problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rb13ksYO0s

[Sherwood]

I have the problem sorted with a convection heater: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTVDVWZUQY0

[AJSki2fly]

[emoji3][emoji3]


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[Mikeandvan]

In reply to Eastern Euros sharing living space, I've worked with quite a few of them, and I don't remember any living 5 to a room, they all house shared, but had own rooms, or shared flats with partners. I really don't know how they manage to save money, but they do!

[Macca]

It's the only place you'll find their song FM listed, unless you have the soundtrack to the film FM.

'FM' is on the 'Gold' compilation album but not on 'Greatest Hits.' Also it's a slightly different version to the 'FM' soundtrack one. Owning both compilations is essential since only Gold (Expanded Edition) has 'Century's End' and 'True Companion' (the latter you can only get otherwise on the 'Heavy Metal' soundtrack album and the former on the 'Bright Lights, Big City' soundtrack album).

[Dr Winston O Boogie]

Definitely got worse. We had some crap around back in the day, but none of it encouraged gang membership, knife crime or violence, unlike today's " this is the music of the streets bro" shit that a lot of these little twats have latched on to.

[AJSki2fly]

Definitely got worse. We had some crap around back in the day, but none of it encouraged gang membership, knife crime or violence, unlike today's " this is the music of the streets bro" shit that a lot of these little twats have latched on to.

Unfortunately you are not far from the truth. Have a read about Tekashi 6ix9ine, a hip-hop rapper from NY, I stumbled across his recent album release and mistakenly started listening. This made me a read about him, a sad tail and a now ruined life I expect.


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[Sherwood]

Definitely got worse. We had some crap around back in the day, but none of it encouraged gang membership, knife crime or violence, unlike today's " this is the music of the streets bro" shit that a lot of these little twats have latched on to.

Yes the Mods and Rockers always saw eye to eye!

[Dr Winston O Boogie]

Yes the Mods and Rockers always saw eye to eye!

Amongst each other yes they fought, but not with the sheer violence (unheard of stabbings and shootings) that are all to commonplace today. Also it was short lived and never encouraged and glorified by a type of music.

[Macca]

Listening to The Smiths always made me want to start stabbing people.

[Macca]

Amongst each other yes they fought, but not with the sheer violence that is commonplace today. Also it was short lived and never encouraged and glorified by a type of music.

That's right, before gangster rap there were no gangsters. Just happy, law-abiding citizens. Music has a lot to answer for, I think we should ban it all, just to be on the safe side.

[Dr Winston O Boogie]

That's right, before gangster rap there were no gangsters. Just happy, law-abiding citizens. Music has a lot to answer for, I think we should ban it all, just to be on the safe side.

I would ban any music that encourages knife crime and violence yes.

There have always been " gangsters " yes but never the gang violence (imported from south America and the US) that a lot of these " gangsta's" encourage in their if you can call it that music.

[Sherwood]

Amongst each other yes they fought, but not with the sheer violence (unheard of stabbings and shootings) that are all to commonplace today. Also it was short lived and never encouraged and glorified by a type of music.

Musical affiliations and fashion defined the two groups. The biggest conflicts were typically staged on beaches during public holidays so no chance of innocent bystanders being injured. I am not saying that violence has not escalated in recent years, but young men have always looked for a tribal affiliation as a release for violent tendencies. I remember when the outlet was football violence and getting caught up in pitched battles between competing factions specifically turning up for a ruck.

[Sherwood]

I would ban any music that encourages knife crime and violence yes.

There have always been " gangsters " yes but never the gang violence (imported from south America and the US) that a lot of these " gangsta's" encourage in their if you can call it that music.

Two words: Brighton Rock!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjL5pDK0eCU

[struth]

Listening to The Smiths always made me want to start stabbing people.

they would make anyone a bit stabby;)

[Macca]

I would ban any music that encourages knife crime and violence yes.

There have always been " gangsters " yes but never the gang violence (imported from south America and the US) that a lot of these " gangsta's" encourage in their if you can call it that music.

Doesn't the music reflect the culture rather than create it? I've got a fair bit of 'gangsta' stuff in my collection and listening to it doesn't make me want to go out and start stabbing people (at least not any more than usual). Much of it is meant tongue in cheek anyway - it's dark humour, not an incitement to violence.


In any case 100 million people died in the second world war, by that logic if we'd banned Wagner and Vera Lynn in 1939 maybe the whole tragedy would not have happened?


Then you've got the Crusades - lots of stabbing in them. Those minstrels with their lutes and that all that plainsong and Gregorian Chant have got a lot to answer for. :D

[Sherwood]

I would say a lot of US gangsta music is about culture rather than crime. Whilst there are some notoriously bad rappers with a history of violent crime, most are not. I personally find a lot of the lyrics and videos objectionable, but I agree that most followers of the music do not serious endorse the message. However, i am certain that some marginal sociopaths have been driven to violence by the genre. Others just invest in the dodgy clothing and music.

[montesquieu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQQ3LQWsTUc

[Dr Winston O Boogie]

You can dress it up how you like but never have we had so many stabbings, shootings etc by followers of a particular genre of music followed by certain elements of youth culture.

[montesquieu]

You can dress it up how you like but never have we had so many stabbings, shootings etc by followers of a particular genre of music followed by certain elements of youth culture.

Actually I don't disagree. There is a whole genre of music that seems to be based around glorification of violence indeed quite of few of its perpetrators seem to have been involved in violence themselves or become victims (if that's the word for someone complicit) of it.

Banning stuff is difficult though, it gets you into areas of who are the censors, what are their criteria, what are the penalties for infraction and how far do you go for example does all new music require to be fully PC? Does old music get banned as well? I can think of a few Zappa albums that might not quite pass muster for today's PC police.

[Macca]

You can dress it up how you like but never have we had so many stabbings, shootings etc by followers of a particular genre of music followed by certain elements of youth culture.

People made the same unfounded correlation between the popularity of jazz and the 'decline in moral standards' back in the 1920s. Hitler, for instance.

[struth]

its like banning or burning books just coz you dont like the massage or the performer/author.... a dangerous road to go down, and all you will do is make it mean more to the folk who like it; it wont go away, just underground

[AJSki2fly]

its like banning or burning books just coz you dont like the massage or the performer/author.... a dangerous road to go down, and all you will do is make it mean more to the folk who like it; it wont go away, just underground

Quite right, a need to educate rather than eradicate!

[Sherwood]

People made the same unfounded correlation between the popularity of jazz and the 'decline in moral standards' back in the 1920s. Hitler, for instance.

I thought the Nazis hated jazz because so many of the top musicians were black or jewish!

[struth]

I thought the Nazis hated jazz because so many of the top musicians were black or jewish!

that too, but also because it was degenerate music

[Mikeandvan]

Definitely got worse. We had some crap around back in the day, but none of it encouraged gang membership, knife crime or violence, unlike today's " this is the music of the streets bro" shit that a lot of these little twats have latched on to.

I think you might be referring to 'Drill' music, a sub genre of Grime, by criminals for criminals. And those little twats you see on park benches talking in their squeaky little faux Jamaican accents, yo gangster bro:lol:

[meBob]

"Has Pop Music Got Worse In Recent Decades?"

How much of what they (drug addled youth) listen to has any originality? If it sounds a quarter to half decent you can bet your house on it, that it belongs to someone else from the dark distant past. If its new it was created on a mixing machine with a generic beat and everything else mixed over the top to a formula.

There are "islands" of talent out there, but probably not making that much money because they don't use mixing machines.

"Has Pop Music Got Worse In Recent Decades?" - Yes!

Victor Meldrew has just left the house!!!

[alphaGT]

Actually I don't disagree. There is a whole genre of music that seems to be based around glorification of violence indeed quite of few of its perpetrators seem to have been involved in violence themselves or become victims (if that's the word for someone complicit) of it.

Banning stuff is difficult though, it gets you into areas of who are the censors, what are their criteria, what are the penalties for infraction and how far do you go for example does all new music require to be fully PC? Does old music get banned as well? I can think of a few Zappa albums that might not quite pass muster for today's PC police.

Perhaps this goes back to the old question, “Does Art imitate Life? Or does Life imitate Art?”. Does the music promote violence, or does violence promote the music? It can be hard to untangle.

Russell

[Pigmy Pony]

I think you might be referring to 'Drill' music, a sub genre of Grime, by criminals for criminals. And those little twats you see on park benches talking in their squeaky little faux Jamaican accents, yo gangster bro:lol:

The battery charger for my Makita cordless plays a little tune to tell me when the battery's fully charged. Would this be "Drill" music?

[walpurgis]

The battery charger for my Makita cordless plays a little tune to tell me when the battery's fully charged. Would this be "Drill" music?

Dunno. My dentist has Classic FM on in the background when I visit, I assumed that was 'drill music'.

[Macca]

I thought this was drill music:

https://i.imgur.com/4BN3uJP.jpg

[Barry]

Dunno. My dentist has Classic FM on in the background when I visit, I assumed that was 'drill music'.

My dentist plays 'calming' whale music and other kitsch mood music. I loath it!

Since he is a private dentist and charges enough , maybe I should take along a CD to play when I'm in the chair?

[Pigmy Pony]

My dentist plays 'calming' whale music and other kitsch mood music. I loath it!

Since he is a private dentist and charges enough , maybe I should take along a CD to play when I'm in the chair?

Could be worse - something you don't want hear while in dentist's chair: "Is it safe?"

[AJSki2fly]

Unfortunately you are not far from the truth. Have a read about Tekashi 6ix9ine, a hip-hop rapper from NY, I stumbled across his recent album release and mistakenly started listening. This made me a read about him, a sad tail and a now ruined life I expect.


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Last night I was out for a meal and I asked my nephew, who is into many types of modern music, if he new about the above. He immediately reacted “What are you doing listening to that idiot, he is hated by many Hip-hop and Rap artists for how he presents himself and what he does”, and he thought some had spoken out against him.

So perhaps the bad side will remain the minority and will fade into insignificance.

[User211]

For great modern pop check out The Ting Tings The Black Light.

Also the master of pop punk Pete Shelley died recently. Listen to Singles/Going Steady for a collection of brilliance in memory of the man.

Saw them live twice at the Hemel Hempstead pavilion years ago. With Joy Division support on one occasion. And much later in Bristol. Fab.

[Pigmy Pony]

Not heard that one, but have an album called "We Started Nothing". Full of catchy tunes.

Shame about Pete Shelley too - it's a bit worrying how many names I grew up with are leaving us. Saw Buzzcocks at Heaton Park Manchester about 1990, one of the more interesting bands that day.