Any opinions on stainless steel platter mat?

[1200reasons]

I'm sending off an order to the laser cutter soon so I'm thinking of cutting up a 285mm (or so) disc in stainless steel. probably 5mm thick. This should add a few kg of rotating mass- and be fun.

How's that sound? Is 285mm a reasonable size for the mat? Unfortunately the next thickness available above 5mm is 10mm which is probably a bit excessive

does anyone know the sl-1200 spindle diameter? I've misplaced my calipers...

edit: the Timestep EVO uses a steel MJ-12 mat, which apparently measures 295mm according to the oyaide website. Won't that go over the outer ridge of the platter?

[Cycleallday]

I'm sending off an order to the laser cutter soon so I'm thinking of cutting up a 285mm (or so) disc in stainless steel. probably 5mm thick. This should add a few kg of rotating mass- and be fun.

How's that sound? Is 285mm a reasonable size for the mat? Unfortunately the next thickness available above 5mm is 10mm which is probably a bit excessive

does anyone know the sl-1200 spindle diameter? I've misplaced my calipers...

edit: the Timestep EVO uses a steel MJ-12 mat, which apparently measures 295mm according to the oyaide website. Won't that go over the outer ridge of the platter?

285 is needed to fit inside sl1200 lip

However a 5 mm mat of 295 is unlikely to bend with the weight of an LP and some say the ringing is in the platter rim so somebody may have a theory an oversize steel platter mat may work to reduce it - sounds odd to me though. Are you sure there is no supporting mat under the 295 platter (which would be closer to lp diameter) ?

[Spectral Morn]

The Oyaide mat sits inside the lip in the Technics platter, old version, with top section that goes out to the edge of the Technics platter. It sounds better with a rubber undermat the BR One under it. I don't think the BR One is available anymore.

[1200reasons]

I might go for 295 and put a standard mat (some sticky rubber dots) under it.

Any idea what the SL-1200 spindle diameter is?

Edit: found my calipers. 7.13mm by my measurement. I guess I'll go for 7.2 and keep a circular file nearby

[moodybuilder]

Are you getting the inner section where the label sits routed out by a few mill. and also can i ask how much this will cost, thanks

[1200reasons]

AUD$25. About 20 USD

A more accurate term would be "platter plate" rather than mat. The plan is to mate it to the platter somehow (I have a large thin sheet of silicone that would do the job very nicely) and then put a regular mat on top of it. No need to route the label.

Just a fun, cheap and simple way to add a few kg of moving mass to the platter. I wonder if this mass would upset the motor. perhaps I should switch to a thinner plate or turn down the electronic brake?

[1200reasons]

https://my.mixtape.moe/ltjsdc.jpg


Excuse the mess and the dusty turntable. Piano black is no fun sometimes.

Pretty happy with the platter. I've still got to give the platter a good polish. It weighs 2.7kg and has no trouble getting it spinning. I've left the brake at the current setting and it only slows it down slightly.

It lacks the vancy holes of the oyaide, but Oyaide claims that those are to reduce resonance... which I really don't believe is a concern with 2.7kg of solid steel.

[Wakefield Turntables]

which I really don't believe is a concern with 2.7kg of solid steel.

how do you explain a Window resonating in a house with many tonnes of bricks surrounding it?

[1200reasons]

I'm not an engineer, but I'm guessing that it's because steel has a specific gravity 3 times greater than glass. Window glass is large and relatively thin. A large thin bit of wood resonates, but a small block of wood doesn't seem to.

The glass also has a lot of force applied to it- in a slight breeze, the large building moves around it and wind blowing against its large surface. My platter conversely is only subject to the energy of 1.8g from my stylus. I would expect that the record itself would absorb most of that energy and then the rubber mat would absorb most of the remaining energy.

Really, comparing a window pane and a thick steel turntable platter makes no sense. Might as well be asking why a coffee cup resonates for all they have in common

[Wakefield Turntables]

I'm not an engineer, but I'm guessing that it's because steel has a specific gravity 3 times greater than glass. Window glass is large and relatively thin. A large thin bit of wood resonates, but a small block of wood doesn't seem to.

The glass also has a lot of force applied to it- in a slight breeze, the large building moves around it and wind blowing against its large surface. My platter conversely is only subject to the energy of 1.8g from my stylus. I would expect that the record itself would absorb most of that energy and then the rubber mat would absorb most of the remaining energy.

Really, comparing a window pane and a thick steel turntable platter makes no sense. Might as well be asking why a coffee cup resonates for all they have in common

Youve missed the point completely. All matter resonates no matter if it's a steel platter mat or a window, and this is irrespective of mass. I think you need to do some reading about resonance transference between surfaces and materials.

[walpurgis]

Youve missed the point completely. All matter resonates no matter if it's a steel platter mat or a window, and this is irrespective of mass. I think you need to do some reading about resonance transference between surfaces and materials.

Bang on.

[1200reasons]

Yeah I said that resonances were not a concern. I didn't say that they don't exist, but rather that I'm really not concerned about them affecting my sound quality, so I'm not interested in drilling holes like the oyaide has.


No sense arguing against something I never said.

I'm not interested in pursuing any argument. I only came here to post a photo.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I'm not an engineer, but I'm guessing that it's because steel has a specific gravity 3 times greater than glass. Window glass is large and relatively thin. A large thin bit of wood resonates, but a small block of wood doesn't seem to.

The glass also has a lot of force applied to it- in a slight breeze, the large building moves around it and wind blowing against its large surface. My platter conversely is only subject to the energy of 1.8g from my stylus. I would expect that the record itself would absorb most of that energy and then the rubber mat would absorb most of the remaining energy.

Really, comparing a window pane and a thick steel turntable platter makes no sense. Might as well be asking why a coffee cup resonates for all they have in common


Yeah I said that resonances were not a concern. I didn't say that they don't exist, but rather that I'm really not concerned about them affecting my sound quality, so I'm not interested in drilling holes like the oyaide has.


No sense arguing against something I never said. I'm not interested in pursuing an argument. I only came here to post a photo.

Its discussion. Ok, your not bothered about resonance, but the whole hifi industry is! Drilling holes in a top plate is a method of dispersing and breaking up resonance. A solid sheet of steel like your mat will amplify it. This will go into your cartridge and produce sub optimal play back. I'm only trying to help, not pick a fight.

[YNWaN]

The holes in the Oyaide won't be doing anything much beyond looking funky, they certainly won't be effecting the resonate modes it possesses except in the most minimal sense. Mass does make a difference because it alters the amplitude of the input required to excite it. Note, I'm not espousing the use of high mass, but it's not true to say it doesn't matter either.

[alphaGT]

May I ask why Stainless Steel? Why not copper or brass? No doubt the Stainless is durable, and the only reason I ask is because I've seen some high end 'tables with copper plated platters, etc. They claimed that copper was softer, and absorbed more resonance. But of course that's what they claimed, I really don't know.


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[struth]

holes reduce weight and that will be why they are there

[prestonchipfryer]

https://my.mixtape.moe/ltjsdc.jpg


Excuse the mess and the dusty turntable. Piano black is no fun sometimes.

Pretty happy with the platter. I've still got to give the platter a good polish. It weighs 2.7kg and has no trouble getting it spinning. I've left the brake at the current setting and it only slows it down slightly.

It lacks the vancy holes of the oyaide, but Oyaide claims that those are to reduce resonance... which I really don't believe is a concern with 2.7kg of solid steel.


That looks very neat, to my eyes anyway. The Oyaide has a taper so that the LP, supposedly, sits flatter to account for any warps and is designed to be used with the Oyaide record weight. I have used the Oyaide mat on an SL12// and to be honest I preferred the Achromat I am currently using.

[1200reasons]

May I ask why Stainless Steel? Why not copper or brass?

I got this done because a friend was getting some stuff laser cut and asked if I wanted to add to the order. The options were stainless steel, mild steel, aluminium, brushed aluminium.


Mild steel isn't ideal. My goal was mass, so steel was a better than aluminium. Brass would have been my first choice if it was available, because it looks so damn cool

Now that I've done a test cut, I might design one with oyaide style holes... purely because it looks kinda cool.It should only take 20 mins in a CAD program, since Oyaide have already done all the hard work designing it


The Oyaide has a taper so that the LP, supposedly, sits flatter to account for any warps


I saw that. Not a feature that I have to my platter, which is nothing more than a disc of (poorly polished) steel. At $20 it's just a fun experiment. I definitely can't pretend that I've created some audiophile product. Just a shiny heavy disc

[walpurgis]

Now that I've done a test cut, I might design one sith oyaide style holes... purely because it looks kinda cool.

Is that a good idea? Holes hold pockets of air. Air resonates. At what frequency will depend on the hole shape, dimensions and volume. Just a thought. :)

[1200reasons]

Ok, now I don't know what anything is anymore. Holes good, holes bad

[alphaGT]

Oyaide is using holes, so if you copy them, you should get similar results, good or bad. I'd like to think they considered all that stuff?

And yes, of the metal options offered i'd say you chose wisely. If you want to dress it up, how about machine turning? You know, you take a small disc with sandpaper or polishing grit and give it a half turn, letting them overlap a bit. Leaving swirls all over it.

And if you really wanted to pitch the disc, so it is higher at the outside edge than the center, it only needs to be a millimeter or two difference? The proper way would be to actually cut the disc that way, flat on the bottom, dished on the top. To maintain contact under the disc. I'm just thinking out loud here, for the sake of conversation. It really is just great like it is! Do you use a record weight? Or clamp?


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[1200reasons]

No clamp or weight unfortunately. Now might be time to invest in one I guess.

Are cheap clamps are as effective as expensive ones? Frankly, I'm a bit poverty-bound and have always struggled to justify shelling out the cash for a one of the expensive ones. Perhaps a $20 ebay one is worth a try.

Russell, those are all great thoughts. For now I like the look as is, from a minimalist point of view. machining the disc for pitch would most likely give an improvement, but would push it out of my anemic budget.

Really it's just for the sake of cool-ness and the hope of improving speed stability with mass. Does that work with DD, or only belt drive?

[alphaGT]

I don't see any evidence that the cost of a record clamp or weight had anything to do with its effectiveness. But I know they work! I had a Monster Cable brand clamp for many years, gave it to my son in law. I paid $35 for it back in '87. Bass was much tighter and deeper using the clamp.

And I don't see why rotating mass can't help a DD the same as belt or anything else. The theory remains the same. IMHO of course.


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[1200reasons]

And I don't see why rotating mass can't help a DD the same as belt or anything else. The theory remains the same. IMHO of course.

My only thought is that perhaps without the belt to smooth over the differences between the belt and flywheel platter, a DD may not benefit from it like a belt drive. Conversely, the powerful motor would be fighting against the platter at any moments that they're spinning at different speeds.

Really that's just a vague idea, rather than anything with no science behind it. Presumably technics had some idea what they were doing when designing the sp10 nmk3's 10kg platter. My platter now weighs the same as a mk1/mk2 sp10... but with 1/4 of the starting torque

[alphaGT]

So perhaps the DD will be slower coming up to speed? But once it comes to full speed, gyroscopy will put the extra weight to use in steadying the overall speed. Newtons law of motion, the more mass the more it wants to keep moving and not change speed.

Unless it's just really too heavy, and it can't get it up to speed? But I doubt that will be the case. And you'd know real quick if it didn't.


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[farflungstar]

A well designed DD will not be noticeably affected at start up. My SP10 has no problems with a tenuto mat (very heavy) plus750g puck. Depends on the turntable.

[Audio Al]

Im not convinced SS is the way to go with this as it rings , just like the std platter that ring like a bell
Best way is somthing inert or put some strips of sound deadening under your original platter , SS will have resonance

Just my opinion ( But who an I :) )

[rubber duck]

That may all be true but I would have thought that the mass of the platter with original rubber mat would have been calculated to work optimally with the motor. Also, while increased mass may improve rotational inertia, surely this would also make it harder for the motor to correct any changes in velocity (speed)?

[Spectral Morn]

https://my.mixtape.moe/ltjsdc.jpg


Excuse the mess and the dusty turntable. Piano black is no fun sometimes.

Pretty happy with the platter. I've still got to give the platter a good polish. It weighs 2.7kg and has no trouble getting it spinning. I've left the brake at the current setting and it only slows it down slightly.

It lacks the vancy holes of the oyaide, but Oyaide claims that those are to reduce resonance... which I really don't believe is a concern with 2.7kg of solid steel.

It also lacks the gentle dishing which makes the Oyaide with its weight so good at flattening a record.

[farflungstar]

And the tenuto which is excellent both in sound and flattening vinyl.

[Infinitely Baffled]

It also lacks the gentle dishing which makes the Oyaide with its weight so good at flattening a record.

Isn't the "gentle dishing" going to change the attitude of the stylus to the groove. I know we are only talking about a couple of millimetres fall from outside edge to run-off, but given how much effort we put into getting our azimuth correct, it seems perverse to then deliberately change it by making your records dish-shaped.
IB

[Audio Al]

:exactly:

[1200reasons]

Don't get me wrong- I'm not trying to say that "it's everything that the oyaide is, plus more". All it is is a $20 chunk of steel. There are probably benefits, but possibly negatives too. I'm keen to hear both.

As for starting torque- it seems to take about half a rotation to get up to speed. I think a standard platter takes a quarter rotation

[alphaGT]

I just laid a straight edge on my VPI Acrylic platter, and it's perfectly flat. So I know it works great, nothing wrong with perfectly flat.

Dished may have an advantage of flattening records, and if you do have a dished platter, or mat, yes it will change the azimuth of the needle, but when you set the cartridge up you need to compensate for that, square to the record, wherever it is. Running downhill towards the center of the record could also have an effect on anti-skating? Although one millimeter in 140mm or more is a very gentle slope. Anyway, certainly nothing wrong with perfectly flat.

Seeing that the stainless disc is some 5mm thick, I wouldn't be too concerned with ringing either. Hopefully it's resonate frequency will be well above the problem areas associated with vinyl playback. Yes it may fall within the audio range, but at higher frequencies it may only present itself as a brighter region, and may even compliment certain cartridges?

Of course, the proof is in the pudding! What do you hear? What differences are you hearing with, and without the new Stainless mat? That's what is and is only important! Any change in bass control? Overall character? Pace and timing? Remember that adding 5mm to the height of the platter will alter your VTA, be sure to adjust for that.


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[gwernaffield]

Hi The Oyaide MJ12 is NOT SS it is Tuned Aluminium , so it does not ring like a bell , and the weight is a lot less than SS i hope that helps

[Infinitely Baffled]

Dished may have an advantage of flattening records, and if you do have a dished platter, or mat, yes it will change the azimuth of the needle, but when you set the cartridge up you need to compensate for that, square to the record, wherever it is. Running downhill towards the center of the record could also have an effect on anti-skating? Although one millimeter in 140mm or more is a very gentle slope. Anyway, certainly nothing wrong with perfectly flat.


Just seems all wrong to me. Having the cartridge tilted in order to achieve square-on azimuth will result in the needle "leaning" on the inner groove wall and I would expect it to create exactly the kind of unequal groove-wall pressure that we obsess about. Expect the channel balance to be out. And anyway, surely you wouldn't choose to treat your records like that ...?
IB

[alphaGT]

Just seems all wrong to me. Having the cartridge tilted in order to achieve square-on azimuth will result in the needle "leaning" on the inner groove wall and I would expect it to create exactly the kind of unequal groove-wall pressure that we obsess about. Expect the channel balance to be out. And anyway, surely you wouldn't choose to treat your records like that ...?
IB

That's why I said it may affect anti-skating, you may have to crank it up to keep it from leaning on the inside groove. I agree it's not ideal. Maybe it would be better to tilt the record player up so the track of the needle is level? Still kind of wonky. Honestly, I think we are seeing an exaggerated bevel, perhaps it's not that steep? In reality it's not out of level enough to compensate for it? I can see a lot of reasons to keep it level, warped records all be damned.


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[1200reasons]

Of course, the proof is in the pudding! What do you hear? What differences are you hearing with, and without the new Stainless mat? That's what is and is only important! Any change in bass control? Overall character? Pace and timing? Remember that adding 5mm to the height of the platter will alter your VTA, be sure to adjust for that.

The dirty truth comes out- I'm a pretty pathetic audiophile. I rarely critically listen, or even sit and listen. The goal here was just to see if I could improve w&f, and create something cool for cheap. I haven't had a single sit-and-listen session

I'm concerned about the stress on the bearing so I plan to switch to aluminium and copy Oyaide's holes. My measurements didn't show any improved in w&f anyway, so the priority is back to "cheap but cool"

[alphaGT]

Then you can save you sit and listen sessions to compare the two new platter mats! SS vs Aluminum! It really doesn't have to be difficult, just pick a few albums you know well, and hear them both ways. An hour could be most telling as to which is best?


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[1200reasons]

Not a bad idea. Aluminium weighs 3 times less, which brings it to a far more reasonable 850g. Add some holes and I'll have a more lightweight, but very funky platter. It's a shame the steel hasn't worked out for me, but $20 was worth the test- and the discussion here

[Soundeck]

I'm sending off an order to the laser cutter soon so I'm thinking of cutting up a 285mm (or so) disc in stainless steel. probably 5mm thick. This should add a few kg of rotating mass- and be fun.

How's that sound? Is 285mm a reasonable size for the mat? Unfortunately the next thickness available above 5mm is 10mm which is probably a bit excessive

does anyone know the sl-1200 spindle diameter? I've misplaced my calipers...

edit: the Timestep EVO uses a steel MJ-12 mat, which apparently measures 295mm according to the oyaide website. Won't that go over the outer ridge of the platter?

Hi, I have stainless steel platter mats which have constrained layer damping built in which removes vibration by converting any vibration or rumble into negligible heat. They get superb reviews, take a look at http://sounddampedsteel.com/hifi.html and email me if you want to test one, if you don't like it I'll refund fully (less postage cost). Cost is £90 plus £5.00 postage. The 285mm weighs 970grams, there is also a 295mm version. They measure 2.2mm thick, one layer @1.5mm stainless +65microns of visco elastic polymer+ 0.7mm stainless. Here's a video link to a demo of it absorbing massive vibrations. http://soundeck.bigcartel.com/about

Good luck... Les Thompson

[Audio Al]

Hi, I have stainless steel platter mats which have constrained layer damping built in which removes vibration by converting any vibration or rumble into negligible heat. They get superb reviews, take a look at http://sounddampedsteel.com/hifi.html and email me if you want to test one, if you don't like it I'll refund fully (less postage cost). Cost is £90 plus £5.00 postage. The 285mm weighs 970grams, there is also a 295mm version. They measure 2.2mm thick, one layer @1.5mm stainless +65microns of visco elastic polymer+ 0.7mm stainless. Here's a video link to a demo of it absorbing massive vibrations. http://soundeck.bigcartel.com/about

Good luck... Les Thompson


Must say your SDS platter mat demo video is impresive ;)

[forsell]

Hi, I have stainless steel platter mats which have constrained layer damping built in which removes vibration by converting any vibration or rumble into negligible heat. They get superb reviews, take a look at http://sounddampedsteel.com/hifi.html and email me if you want to test one, if you don't like it I'll refund fully (less postage cost). Cost is £90 plus £5.00 postage. The 285mm weighs 970grams, there is also a 295mm version. They measure 2.2mm thick, one layer @1.5mm stainless +65microns of visco elastic polymer+ 0.7mm stainless. Here's a video link to a demo of it absorbing massive vibrations. http://soundeck.bigcartel.com/about

Good luck... Les Thompson

From your older thread (2014):

>I can supply SDS steel to individual requirements either as a flat sheet or cnc'd to precise drawings.<

Hi Les,

I am interested in some parts made of SDS for my project that are not commercially available through your sounddeck web-site. Going by your older posts on AOS and this one you are also in a position to offer "customized one-offs" as a service...?

[allthingsanalogue]

The holes in the Oyaide won't be doing anything much beyond looking funky, they certainly won't be effecting the resonate modes it possesses except in the most minimal sense. Mass does make a difference because it alters the amplitude of the input required to excite it. Note, I'm not espousing the use of high mass, but it's not true to say it doesn't matter either.

It made it look nice going round, this was mine.

I'm convinced it ruined my Delos though as my Rega arm at the time had no azimuth adjustment so when I moved the Delos to my LP12 one of the chanels had low output, in the end I had to buy a new one.


https://youtu.be/jkitrpSu9q0

[Tyr]

I don't really understand high level math´s but physicians told me this:

All materials have their own resonance frequency. To dampen resonance a sandwich construction of different materials with different resonance frequency´s is the way to go!

If building blocks/plinths for electronics to stand on the electronics should be coupled to the block with spikes etc and block it self should be decoupled from the floor/shelf underneath it.

[YNWaN]

All materials do have their own resonant frequency but you don’t need to laminate different materials together to damp this resonance. Indeed, the danger is that you end up with a lot of different resonant frequencies but with their amplitude reduced. SDS use proper constrained layer damping where two pieces of similar material are bonded with a viscoelastic compound of specific thickness. Such a method is extremely effective at suppressing that materials natural resonant frequency - more so than laminating different materials together.

[walpurgis]

I wonder how one would measure the resonant frequency of a block of Sorbothane?

Presumably it would act as a rigid solid at certain frequencies, high ones I'd guess.