Croft micro 25 Line Preamp

[fatmarley]

I've decided I want to try a Croft preamp because of all the great things I've heard about them.

I was looking at the cheaper £550 Croft Micro 25 line stage but noticed an older version on ebay (LINK (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Croft-Acoustics-Micro-25-Line-Pre-amplifier-Audio-Affairs-Upgrade-/132260859043?hash=item1ecb5c8ca3:g:vtgAAOSweIlZaJd p)). The thing that worried me Is the fact that the box looks almost empty compared to later versions of the same amp.

Has anyone heard this preamp?

[walpurgis]

An uncluttered box always appeals to me. Less is often more where amps are concerned. If it does the job, it's fine. Cheaper to fix too.

[Bigman80]

No phono stage in it, Thats why its empty. Its only a line pre amp. You may already know that though lol

[fatmarley]

No phono stage in it, Thats why its empty. Its only a line pre amp. You may already know that though lol

I did know they do two versions of the same amp but the switch on the front and the connections on the back both say "Phono". I guess It means that of the three valves that you normally see, two are for the phono stage, and the cases are all the same to allow for upgrades.

[fatmarley]

Hmmm - No postage and bad feedback.

[Bigman80]

I did know they do two versions of the same amp but the switch on the front and the connections on the back both say "Phono". I guess It means that of the three valves that you normally see, two are for the phono stage, and the cases are all the same to allow for upgrades.
I'd have thought so. The bad feedback is a concern.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[PhilofCas]

Matt, looks to me that this is miss-advertised, it's described as a micro 25, when it's a micro basic, a cheaper alternative. That said, people on here say the basic is pretty good, it's just not a full blown pucker Micro 25 if that's what you're looking for.

[Macca]

Matt, looks to me that this is miss-advertised, it's described as a micro 25, when it's a micro basic, a cheaper alternative. That said, people on here say the basic is pretty good, it's just not a full blown pucker Micro 25 if that's what you're looking for.

Agree it is a micro-basic. The Micro basic is the one I had for a couple of years, albeit with the phono stage. It is very good for the money but if you want some semblance of neutrality to the source you'll need to look elsewhere.

[fatmarley]

Matt, looks to me that this is miss-advertised, it's described as a micro 25, when it's a micro basic, a cheaper alternative. That said, people on here say the basic is pretty good, it's just not a full blown pucker Micro 25 if that's what you're looking for.

I thought It was weird that the volume knobs were just basic black plastic.

[fatmarley]

Agree it is a micro-basic. The Micro basic is the one I had for a couple of years, albeit with the phono stage. It is very good for the money but if you want some semblance of neutrality to the source you'll need to look elsewhere.

Oh! - I've heard so many good things said about Croft preamps. I think your the first person I've heard say bad things about them. Or does this just apply to the Micro Basic? Also, what does It add to the sound?

[hifi_dave]

The Micro Basic was dropped from the Croft line around 2 years ago because there wasn't sufficient profit to make it viable. It was good though.

The Micro 25 line level pre is now £605 and the Micro 25 with internal MM phono stage is £770. Unbeatable at anywhere near the price IMO.

I do, from time to time, have lightly used demo units for sale.

[Macca]

Oh! - I've heard so many good things said about Croft preamps. I think your the first person I've heard say bad things about them. Or does this just apply to the Micro Basic? Also, what does It add to the sound?

I can only speak for the Micro Basic as never had the more expensive models. I had it for two or three years so don't' get me wrong it isn't bad and I enjoyed it a lot. I had a brief trial with the 7 series power amp as well and that combination was exceptional for (I think) about a grand new.

My criticism was that it glossed over the differences in production. It had clarity, perhaps because it is a simple but cleverly thought out circuit, but it was coloured. Even modern, polished, slightly sterile digital studio recordings sounded like they were made in the late sixties on all-valve gear. Obviously there will be a lot of people who would not have a problem with that, I eventually decided that I did.

[walpurgis]

if you want some semblance of neutrality to the source you'll need to look elsewhere.

That's what I found.

At the time I tried a Micro Basic, I was using an ancient but very good Rappaport solid state pre-amp and it blew the Croft away.

[fatmarley]

Think I'll give It a miss then.

It was going to be used In front of a Quad 306 that I just bought. Found a dirt cheap passive preamp on ebay that will do for now - Little Bear MC2 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Little-Bear-MC2-Fully-Balanced-Passive-Preamplifier-Pre-Amp-XLR-RCA-Controller-K-/401324705315?hash=item5d70d10623:g:lY4AAOSwZ4dZEtW t)

[Dauntless]

Think I'll give It a miss then.

It was going to be used In front of a Quad 306 that I just bought. Found a dirt cheap passive preamp on ebay that will do for now - Little Bear MC2 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Little-Bear-MC2-Fully-Balanced-Passive-Preamplifier-Pre-Amp-XLR-RCA-Controller-K-/401324705315?hash=item5d70d10623:g:lY4AAOSwZ4dZEtW t)

Why not try the Schiit Saga Pre? https://schiit.eu.com/preamps/Saga
It is a line Pre with remote control, a passive stage and an active valve buffer stage all built around a stepped passive stage. Good value for money purchased from the UK on line. I have the Freya myself which is a similar product but caters for balanced XLR.

[fatmarley]

Why not try the Schiit Saga Pre? https://schiit.eu.com/preamps/Saga
It is a line Pre with remote control, a passive stage and an active valve buffer stage all built around a stepped passive stage. Good value for money purchased from the UK on line. I have the Freya myself which is a similar product but caters for balanced XLR.

Thanks, I'll have look at that.

[Bigman80]

Geoff rates the Little bear very highly for it diminutive price

[walpurgis]

Geoff rates the Little bear very highly for it diminutive price

This one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Little-Bear-MC2-Fully-Balanced-Passive-Preamplifier-Pre-Amp-XLR-RCA-Controller-K-/401324705315?hash=item5d70d10623

[fatmarley]

How do they do they do It for the money? Posted all the way from China too.

[fatmarley]

Bought a service/upgrade kit from Dada for the 306. Will be interesting to see how this compares to my Onix oa21 integrated amp.

[walpurgis]

How do they do they do It for the money? Posted all the way from China too.

And it arrived quickly!

[southall-1998]

How do they do they do It for the money? Posted all the way from China too.

The Chinese are very clever people, Matt.

S.

[fatmarley]

And it arrived quickly!


Good. I'm an impatient bugger.

[walpurgis]

If you scan the various ebay listings, you will see that there are three pot values available for the Little Bear passive. I bought the usual 20k version, but 10k and 50k are on some sellers sites. There is also a 'posh' metal cased model with a higher price.

I have used it with my Quad 306 and it worked fine and sounded very good, as it also does with the Monarchy Audio SM-70 Pro I have currently in the system.

[fatmarley]

The Chinese are very clever people, Matt.

S.

Yes - and they work for peanuts I'd Imagine.

[fatmarley]

If you scan the various ebay listings, you will see that there are three pot values available for the Little Bear passive. I bought the usual 20k version, but 10k and 50k are on some sellers sites. There is also a 'posh' metal cased model with a higher price.

I have used it with my Quad 306 and it worked fine and sounded very good, as it also does with the Monarchy Audio SM-70 Pro I have currently in the system.

I ordered the 20k too. Apparently It's been dispatched already...

[southall-1998]

Geoff,

Will the 20k version, work well with the sensitive Leak Stereo 20?

S.

[walpurgis]

Geoff,

Will the 20k version, work well with the sensitive Leak Stereo 20?

S.

High Shane. As it works with the Quad 306 which also has a highish input sensitivity, it will probably be OK with the Stereo 20, if coming in a little early on volume settings. Might be an idea to look for the 50k version for a more progressive roll-in. Worth a go at twenty something quid though. A spare passive is always handy and this is a decent sounding little thing with no noticeable channel imbalance at low volumes, unlike other passives. Looks quite funky too.

[fatmarley]

Little Bear MC2 passive pre arrived today. Just plugged It Into the Quad 306 and played a quick selection of music from cold. On quick listen It seems at least as good as my Onix oa21. Less detail that the Cambridge Audio 651A that I used to own but I sold It In favour of the Onix because the highs seemed a bit unnatural.
It sounds so good, I almost feel like not doing the Dada service/mods but I know I wont be able to help myself.

Little Bear P5-1 valve buffer with the obligatory Jan Ge 5654W tubes will be arriving soon...

[fatmarley]

One thing I find Interesting Is the complete lack of hiss with my ear against the tweeter.

[walpurgis]

Little Bear MC2 passive pre arrived today. Just plugged It Into the Quad 306 and played a quick selection of music from cold. On quick listen It seems at least as good as my Onix oa21. Less detail that the Cambridge Audio 651A that I used to own but I sold It In favour of the Onix because the highs seemed a bit unnatural.

Good. I don't see how anybody could be disappointed with one of these for the money.

[fatmarley]

The 306 Is a nice little amp for the money too.

[walpurgis]

The 306 Is a nice little amp for the money too.

Just using a borrowed Promitheus TVC pre-amp with mine, it's taken it to a whole new level. This little pre-amp sounds amazingly good with the Quad and suits it a treat. I can't say the sound is inferior to my Class A or valve power amps. It is different though.

[Ninanina]

Matt I had a Croft integrated amp, the latest version, in for testing and I was very disappointed with it... very flat sounding to me... that was compared to my AN amps so perhaps it was an unfair comparison, price wise, to be honest

I did own a Croft Vitale pre many years ago which I used with Quad II's and I was very impressed with that amp..

Don't know if that helps at all :)

[fatmarley]

Just using a borrowed Promitheus TVC pre-amp with mine, it's taken it to a whole new level. This little pre-amp sounds amazingly good with the Quad and suits it a treat. I can't say the sound is inferior to my Class A or valve power amps. It is different though.

I did consider a TVC but read a few bad opinions that put me off. Someone said they're a bit soft sounding IIRC.

[fatmarley]

Matt I had a Croft integrated amp, the latest version, in for testing and I was very disappointed with it... very flat sounding to me... that was compared to my AN amps so perhaps it was an unfair comparison, price wise, to be honest

I did own a Croft Vitale pre many years ago which I used with Quad II's and I was very impressed with that amp..

Don't know if that helps at all :)

From what I understand the Croft preamp Is the star of the show, so It doesn't completely surprise me. Although I never Imagined Croft to sound flat.

I had a dem of a valve amp on my speakers and that sounded flat, but It was only because the amp struggled to drive them - Could that have been the problem?

[walpurgis]

I did consider a TVC but read a few bad opinions that put me off. Someone said they're a bit soft sounding IIRC.

Whoever said that is mistaken. I have two TVC's pre-amps here and both are incredibly lucid and tight, with excellent bass definition.

[fatmarley]

Whoever said that is mistaken. I have two TVC's pre-amps here and both are incredibly lucid and tight, with excellent bass definition.

Have you tried both TVCs on the 306?

What version of the Promitheus TVC are you trying?

[walpurgis]

Have you tried both TVCs on the 306?

What version of the Promitheus TVC are you trying?

Yes. I have. The Promitheus suits the Quad best. It's the basic version TVC I believe.

The other TVC is a MingDa MC-9 and sounds incredible driving my Monarchy Audio power amps (try finding one for sale, there ain't none).

[walpurgis]

Here's a shot of both.

http://i63.tinypic.com/ekjq13.jpg

[fatmarley]

Just had a thought - Isn't the volume In steps on a TVC? I had a stepped attenuator once and the lack of fine adjustment drove me Insane.

[walpurgis]

Just had a thought - Isn't the volume In steps on a TVC? I had a stepped attenuator once and the lack of fine adjustment drove me Insane.

Yes, it is stepped on both, but very progessive on the Promitheus, each step being quite small.

[fatmarley]

Yes, it is stepped on both, but very progessive on the Promitheus, each step being quite small.

Ok thanks Geoff, I'll keep an eye out for a secondhand one. I wouldn't want to buy new In case I didn't like it.

[walpurgis]

Ok thanks Geoff, I'll keep an eye out for a secondhand one. I wouldn't want to buy new In case I didn't like it.

There was one offered in Private Exhibitions maybe near a year ago, that I don't think sold. Could be worth poking through the old listings or doing an advanced search to see if the member still has it.

[fatmarley]

There was one offered in Private Exhibitions maybe near a year ago, that I don't think sold. Could be worth poking through the old listings or doing an advanced search to see if the member still has it.

I suppose there could be a chance It's still for sale. Some people just chuck It back in the cupboard If It doesn't sell...