Upgrading Technics 1200....PSU

[djEmpire]

Hi everyone!

I've been using my Technics 1200MK2 tables professionally for over 30 years. After all the reliable years of sonic bliss, the tables will finally compliment my HI-FI system. But before I add it to the rest of the gear, I would like to make it sound as 'neutral' as possible. One of the ways is implementing an external Power Supply Unit. The other is fluid damper injection.

So far I'm I'm installing a new tonearm, and Cardas Litz tonearm wires. Even a new coat of pearl white paint!

My system:

Bryston 4B3 (http://bryston.com/products/power_amps/4B-3.html)
Bryston Model T signature speakers (http://bryston.com/products/speakers/Model_T_Signature.html)
Simaudio MOON NEO Preamp (http://www.simaudio.com/en/product/34-preamplifier.html)
OPPO UDP-205 for DAC (https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-205/)
Rotel RQ-970BX Phono Preamp (http://www.rotel.com/product/rq-970bx)
AT-AL150 Cartridge (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/cartridges/699a33304468ed99/index.html)

My question is: Will the PSU and fluid make an audible difference to an already decent sounding TT? Can someone point me in the direction of sourcing parts for a PSU DIY and instructions. I will be happy to start on this project.

TIA! Serf

[Spectral Morn]

Fluid damping only suit some carts, not all so adding one will depend on the cart.

PSUs, my experience is that all I have tried have a characteristic they add, so in away a house sound. I was surprised at that, but its what I heard. Of course if you build your own, well it will have your flavour.

[walpurgis]

I'm not aware of a fluid damping facility on the SL-1200/1210 arm.

[Spectral Morn]

I'm not aware of a fluid damping facility on the SL-1200/1210 arm.

Its a KAB upgrade, you fit the KAB parts to the arm, bit like how you can add a SME 5 damping trough to an SME 4.

[RickeyM]

Hi everyone!

I've been using my Technics 1200MK2 tables professionally for over 30 years. After all the reliable years of sonic bliss, the tables will finally compliment my HI-FI system. But before I add it to the rest of the gear, I would like to make it sound as 'neutral' as possible. One of the ways is implementing an external Power Supply Unit. The other is fluid damper injection.

So far I'm I'm installing a new tonearm, and Cardas Litz tonearm wires. Even a new coat of pearl white paint!

TIA! Serf

Another thing you should consider is peeling off that ill applied factory rubber mat on the underside of your platter and replacing it with a layer of Dynamat Extreme.

[djEmpire]

I never thought of that. Any recommendations where I can find it?

[mikeyb]

I never thought of that. Any recommendations where I can find it?
eBay/Amazon.

But please note once it's on its an absolute bugger to get it off again as it's bitumen like stuff on one side and foil on the other.

Someone had fitted some to the inside of my amp lid and it took 3 hours using various chemicals to remove ( luckily it wasn't me who had to remove it ).

[RickeyM]

I have absolutely no intention of removing mine (Dynamat Extreme) as it damps the platter so much better than the stock undermat.

[mikeyb]

I have absolutely no intention of removing mine (Dynamat Extreme) as it damps the platter so much better than the stock undermat.
It was just a heads up to the OP as it's not just a try it then revert back that easily, if they didn't like the change then it's awkward to remove.

Be handy to have a spare platter to try it on.

[djEmpire]

I'm looking into this. Thanks for the tip.

[RickeyM]

It was just a heads up to the OP as it's not just a try it then revert back that easily, if they didn't like the change then it's awkward to remove.

Be handy to have a spare platter to try it on.

I can dig it.

[RickeyM]

I'm looking into this. Thanks for the tip.

Here's a link I used when I mounted my PS externally. The thing with a Techie, IMO, is you do a mod and hear an improvement. Then you mod something else and along with the improvement from that, you get a better picture of the improvement from the previous mod.

SL1200MK2 external power supply (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/238618-technics-sl-1200-dc-power-supply.html)

[1200reasons]

Can someone please educate me better here?

As far as I can see, the only point of a PSU upgrade is if you're noticing transformer hum, right? Since it uses a quartz mechanism, I don't really see how a PSU upgrade would affect the function of the motor. At 0.025% speed stability, it's verging on audible perfect anyway, right?

Even with the volume pumped on a sensitive LoMC I can't notice any hum with the stylus sitting 1mm above the platter. EMI doesn't seem to be a problem. Once the needle hits the record, a quiet hum appears from the physical vibration of the transformer. If this is the case then there's nothing that any PSU can do aside from removing the 50/60hz hum. no reason for a "house sound" or anything. merely stock SL-1200 sound minus a 50/60 hz hum

[Stratmangler]

Once the needle hits the record, a quiet hum appears from the physical vibration of the transformer

You have it!
Take the transformer away from the deck, which in stock form has sod all suspension, and you've removed a constant vibrational source.
Site the PSU away from the deck with a wire umbilical, and the vibrational path is gone.

The result is that the stylus is tracking the rotating record, minus the 50/60 Hz injected by the mains transformer sat beneath the platter.

[RickeyM]

Imagine if you will, sanding something made of wood. A table top maybe. Imagine things like transformer hum, platter resonance, tonearm resonances as things you can sand smooth to get a fine furniture grade finish. Remove the transformer from the chassis and you've removed a source of vibration reaching the stylus. Okay, you've smoothed out your finish as far as the grit of the sandpaper will take you. You then damp the platter by either replacing the under matt or selecting a matt which helps damp the platter or even selecting an aftermarket platter. You've now isolated the stylus from more mechanical and airborne vibrations. Your table top is a now little smoother than before. Your stock tonearm has that steel tube which very resonant. You can either mod the stock tonearm or replace it altogether. Another path of mechanical and airborne vibrations wrestled into submission. Boy, that table top is as smooth as a baby's bottom now.

Your cart sends whatever signal it picks up (music and) to the rest of your system for amplification. The cleaner (less vibrations and resonances) that signal, the better the remaining music will sound. I use a humble AT120e cart and with these mods, I'm surprised at how good it sounds.

PS, even with just the PS removed from the chassis, I noticed better sound. Things like low level sounds became clearer and easier to discern.

[1200reasons]

What are the external PSU options? I know of the KAB and the timestep, but I'm pretty sure there are others that I can't think of. As noted above in a previous post, I'm of the opinion that all external PSUs have the same impact, so it's mostly about finding the most affordable one for me

[Stratmangler]

Just take the one you already have out from under the platter, and rehouse it in an external box.
Use flex to make an umbilical connection to the deck.

[Spectral Morn]

Different PSUs have a different effect as does better PSUs improve the sound over lesser ones. So while an improvement will be found by removing the PSU from out of the turntable adding a better PSU on top will give improvements as well.

Try this http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/24/12/2015/absolute-power-power-supplies-for-the-technics-12001210-paul-hynes-designs-origin-live-long-dog-audio/

[1200reasons]

Different PSUs have a different effect as does better PSUs improve the sound over lesser ones. So while an improvement will be found by removing the PSU from out of the turntable adding a better PSU on top will give improvements as well.

On what basis would this be? It's quartz locked direct drive, so I really don't see how different PSUs can have different impacts. As long as the transistors get a DC voltage within their operational range, it should run perfectly regardless of the source of that DC. The only benefit that I can see is removing the internal transformer which vibrates slightly.

On the factory inbuilt PSU I measure at 0.02% speed stability (or similar. I forget), but I get a quiet hum while the needle is touching the record

It's temping to just put the factory PSU in an external box, but for the sake of not screwing anything up and keeping the resale as high as possible, I might prefer to buy one

[walpurgis]

I wonder too. Surely the motor only draws as much power as it requires and presumably the standard PSU is specified adequately?

[1200reasons]

none of the psu manufacturers seem to give any indication of their power handling capabilities unfortunately. Just vague terms like "2X overrated". The technics manual says it has a power consumption of 13.5W, which I'm pretty sure is the "running" power, not standby power.

[mikeyb]

The upgrades that should be done are the ones to reduce noise/vibration within the TT, because with each of these reductions the audio becomes clearer. Same principle when designing a Phono stage, less noise more clarity.

The main ones are:

Bearing upgrade
PSU Upgrade
Platter upgrade
Edit: Better Arm
How much each one improves will be dependant on the quality/build of each item.

Plenty on here have done it, including myself and each time I added another piece of the jigsaw the 'picture' became easier to see ;-)

[walpurgis]

the advice I've read so far is people who know what they're talking about

"people who know what they're talking about" should surely be able to answer sensible questions Mike. It makes sense to want to know the justification is for claims and to gain insight into potential benefits before investiing money.

[mikeyb]

"people who know what they're talking about" should surely be able to answer sensible questions Mike. It makes sense to want to know the justification is for claims and to gain insight into potential benefits before investiing money.Agreed, but who knows better whether it improved their 1210 or not, those who've done it or those who haven't, I know which ones I'd listen to.

I'm not so fussy about figures or measurements ( mainly cos I don't understand them lol ), I rely on the advice of others and then just use my ears, they may be shite, buggered or wherever but at the end of the day we are all different and only 'I' know if it sounds right/good to me. If not I try something else that someone has put forward or recommended. So far ( touch wood ) most of the eedjits on here are actually right [emoji4]

Most of what I own/bought/sold on has been because of recommendations on here and other forums mainly because of no access to shops or demo facilities.

Anyway, I still recommend the three main area of improvement I mentioned above, I'm pretty sure every TT manufacturer would say the same, isn't that what many of them do with each TT in their range as you move up?

I forgot to add a better arm would help too, which I've now added to my post [emoji6]

[Spectral Morn]

On what basis would this be? It's quartz locked direct drive, so I really don't see how different PSUs can have different impacts. As long as the transistors get a DC voltage within their operational range, it should run perfectly regardless of the source of that DC. The only benefit that I can see is removing the internal transformer which vibrates slightly.

On the factory inbuilt PSU I measure at 0.02% speed stability (or similar. I forget), but I get a quiet hum while the needle is touching the record

It's temping to just put the factory PSU in an external box, but for the sake of not screwing anything up and keeping the resale as high as possible, I might prefer to buy one

Objective listening opinion. I only go by what I hear. If you are a measurements and science only person then no doubt you will dismiss my listening experiences which were extensive and included some blind testing. I compared all the PSUs out there at the time, but not including the KAB. There were differences as one went up the PSU models and between the brands. I accept measurements have there place and are important, but unlike when I was a young audiophile and got excited about such, these days I only really care about how it sounds. I listen with my ears not measurement test equipment. But each to their own, and other folks mileage may differ.

[Cycleallday]

Its easy to get carried away with upgrading, especially when there are many posts supporting it. Personal listening is always the best option as much can depend on the synergy of the system as a whole and rarely are users systems the same.

Interestingly my experience with the PSU on the Techie seems to go against the norm. I fitted a separate linear PSU (but not reg) and heard no disernable difference. As a separate PSU was more of an annoyance I just connected the original back up to avoid another box in my rack.

I also get no hum whatsoever from the existing PSU when my MC is at the closest point to the internal psu. I did initially get some hum but this turned out to be the phono I was using and in particular the PSU being used by that phono; switching to another removed the issue.

[1200reasons]

I also get no hum whatsoever from the existing PSU when my MC is at the closest point to the internal psu.

Not even from the physical vibration of the transformer? I get no hum when the cartridge is 1mm away from the record, but as soon as it hits the record it hums a little. EMI isn't a problem, but the vibrating transformer is.

I've got no idea whether it's affecting my sound quality, but it irks me to know that there's a measurable technical thing wrong with the turntable.

[6L6]

Of course it's effecting the sound quality - the entire point of a turntable is to spin the record so the physical grooves can vibrate the needle. Any spurious vibration also vibrates the needle and said vibrations were not recorded on the record



Not even from the physical vibration of the transformer? I get no hum when the cartridge is 1mm away from the record, but as soon as it hits the record it hums a little. EMI isn't a problem, but the vibrating transformer is.

I've got no idea whether it's affecting my sound quality, but it irks me to know that there's a measurable technical thing wrong with the turntable.

An external PSU, in my experience, makes a shed load of positive change to the Techy. I wholeheartedly recommend it!

Were I to get another SL-1200 and start over, I'd do PSU, Acromat, Isonoes, and a tonearm rewire (if it were a mk2 or any of the others with the insulation that likes to eat the wire's tin.)

[walpurgis]

Of course it's effecting the sound quality - the entire point of a turntable is to spin the record so the physical grooves can vibrate the needle. Any spurious vibration also vibrates the needle and said vibrations were not recorded on the record

I agree. A turntable should be as vibration free as possible.