View Full Version : That's me finished with The Guardian
Arkless Electronics
10-07-2017, 18:20
I was so pissed off today with the moderation "policy" at the gruaniad today that that's me finished with them!! I made a post in the comments section after an article about feminism... basically saying that in this day and age women now have equality, there are laws enshrining it etc and that it is OTT and unnecessary for them to push feminism so strongly as to even have an actual feminism category for articles and news etc. Although there is nothing in AUP about it, and although my post was polite etc, it was deleted by moderators! I couldn't believe it and my first thought was that it must have been deleted in error... So I posted a similar comment... also removed... followed by another pointing out that I had posted nothing more than a personal opinion, politely worded, which could surely not be in contravention of site rules... deleted. Several others then posted similar opinions.. all deleted.. followed by a long post from another person saying that my original post was fair, sensible and polite etc and it was a censoring of free speech to delete it... deleted! Unbelievable! You should see how strongly worded some posts on there are! I tried another one saying how successful lots of women I know have been in rising to the top of their field etc and that clearly women have plenty of opportunities these days etc... not only deleted but I'm put on the naughty boys pre moderation list! Worst case of "PC gone mad" I've personally experienced! :steam::steam:
rigger67
10-07-2017, 18:38
I know how you feel.
I consider myself to be a feminist - actually a humanist - because I believe everyone should have equal opportunities regardless of what flavour they are in any context.
How can an intelligent human being be anything other than a humanist, by definition ??
I also read The Guardian.
The comments sections make the online edition, same as for most sites, and I find them entertaining though I normally only post about music or football.
The thing is, you're fighting a losing battle because of the PC police.
It's like saying you're anti-Israel. This immediately becomes "oh, you're anti-Semitic then ?" or "I'm anti-Taliban" which becomes anti-Muslim.
These terms aren't the same - they're more specific than that.
And the same thing applies with what you're saying about the feminazis.
I love that there are laws in place to offer people the same opportunities, but you're right in saying sometimes it feels a bit too much - especially if you're a man, an intelligent man .. who reads The Guardian !
I used to work for a students union with a female CEO.
Every year, there would be a big thing made of International Women's Day and the last year I worked there a mate was doing the sound for the event.
He told me about 100 people turned up for a presentation being made in the SU bar that evening.
The CEO claimed that this particular year was historic because it was the first time the Student Council had been made up by an equal number of male and female students. She was so proud that finally achieved parity under her watch. But do you know what she said immediately after announcing this ??
"Next year, let's go one better !"
.. which kinda misses the point for me. What could be better than equality ?
Inequality in favour of females ??
Surely that's what they've been railing against all these years ??
.. but of course, nobody ever said that to her.
It's The Worm That Turned, isn't it ??
She looked a bit like Diana Dors too, now I come to think about it :)
Firebottle
10-07-2017, 18:39
Free press, don't make me laugh.
Need I say more?
walpurgis
10-07-2017, 18:49
Bias in the press? Never! :eek:
Arguing with the moderators is aways the quickest way to get yourself banned from anywhere.
I could never be doing with the Guardian anyway. Apart from anything else, their crossword is impossible to complete.
Guardian 'Comment is Free' or 'Comment Macht Frei' as some wag once dubbed it has always been heavily moderated and any posts that are even slightly off message are deleted. It isn't anything new. It's why extreme left wing is just as bad as extreme right wing. You don't get to dissent, or even to debate. I'm just surprised you were surprised.
Mikeandvan
19-07-2017, 21:45
Never mind the Guardian, the rabid pc lefties over on PFM will not tolerate any deviation from the Moderators strict liberal/left line!!
Never mind the Guardian, the rabid pc lefties over on PFM will not tolerate any deviation from the Moderators strict liberal/left line!!
I know. It borders on the fascism they claim to despise. It's funny that they don't even seem to realise it.
I'm amazed that anyone still reads newspapers these days, as it's all available on the net for free! ;)
Marco (not read a major newspaper for about 15 years).
walpurgis
20-07-2017, 08:26
I'm amazed that anyone still reads newspapers these days, as it's all available on the net for free! ;)
Marco (not read a major newspaper for about 15 years).
Probably twenty years in my case. I keep up with events using using ITV News and Google News via PC and news programmes on the box.
a news paper?? whats that??
walpurgis
20-07-2017, 08:29
a news paper?? whats that??
Wot yer wrap chips in and wipe yer bum with! :D
I know. It borders on the fascism they claim to despise. It's funny that they don't even seem to realise it.
The last person who came here complaining about 'unfair' moderation on AN Other forum lasted a couple of weeks before being booted. Just sayin', like.
walpurgis
20-07-2017, 08:36
Some folk have personalities that just don't work within forums. We get the 'odd' one here now and then. Shame really, it can't be good not being relaxed and adaptable enough to fit in.
Wot yer wrap chips in and wipe yer bum with! :D
ah, a shitrag:lol:
The last person who came here complaining about 'unfair' moderation on AN Other forum lasted a couple of weeks before being booted. Just sayin', like.
it became obvious why as well. he may be a nice guy but didnt fit within our boundaries unfortunately. not something that is done lightly
Some folk have personalities that just don't work within forums. We get the 'odd' one here now and then. Shame really, it can't be good not being relaxed and adaptable enough to fit in.
Still, they can always set up their own forum.
Who exactly are we talking about? The only folk who get banned here are outright irritants/trolls (those with a provocative agenda), and folk who simply don't and/or refuse to fit in.
These days, we don't need to pander to anyone who insists on being 'difficult', so the path of least resistance will always be taken, and they can go and be 'difficult' somewhere else.
Marco.
Who exactly are we talking about? The only folk who get banned here are outright irritants/trolls (those with a provocative agenda), and folk who simply don't and/or refuse to fit in.
These days, we don't need to pander to anyone who insists on being 'difficult', so the path of least resistance will always be taken, and they can go and be 'difficult' somewhere else.
Marco.
I was talking about the bloke who came here recently complaining he'd been forced out of AV Forums by 'trolls' and was welcomed with open arms, only to be booted from here a couple of weeks later.
Stratmangler
20-07-2017, 09:16
Wot yer wrap chips in and wipe yer bum with! :D
Hopefully not simultaneously, eh? :eyebrows:
I was talking about the bloke who came here recently complaining he'd been forced out of AV Forums by 'trolls' and was welcomed with open arms, only to be booted from here a couple of weeks later.
Ah him, well, if you were to look back and examine the nature of his posts (and in particular posting style) before he was banned, you'd see quite clearly how the "refuse to fit in" thing (as outlined above) applied. It also gradually became quite clear how he had experienced problems posting elsewhere, which wasn't really apparent when he first joined.
Folk will always be given ample opportunity to fit into our community, but sometimes it just doesn't work out, and a parting of ways is needed in order to maintain the 'vibe' we seek to have on AoS.
Also, and this is something that everyone should consider in these situations, often dialogue occurring behind the scenes (between mods/admin and the member/offender in question) can provoke a subsequent ban, where things have been said that shouldn't have been said [as was the case in this instance], and none of that would have been known to anyone outside of those involved.
Anyway, let's get back to the thread topic now. Ta :)
Marco.
Beobloke
20-07-2017, 12:01
I'm amazed that anyone still reads newspapers these days, as it's all available on the net for free! ;)
Marco (not read a major newspaper for about 15 years).
Then you're missing out. Sunday afternoons for me are about sitting in the garden in the sun with a G&T and working my way through the Sunday Times! :D
Arkless Electronics
20-07-2017, 12:09
Never mind the Guardian, the rabid pc lefties over on PFM will not tolerate any deviation from the Moderators strict liberal/left line!!
Anyone not a liberal is a complete twat so that's a good thing. One dictionary definition of liberal is "not a bigot".
Arkless Electronics
20-07-2017, 12:13
Still, they can always set up their own forum.
Indeed a well known nonce did just that... We can't discuss that site though:D
Then you're missing out. Sunday afternoons for me are about sitting in the garden in the sun with a G&T and working my way through the Sunday Times! :D
Don't know about Hampshire but here there are at best half a dozen Sundays a year where the weather would permit that sort of activity. Even then the wind would make it a pain in the arse. Rescuing the Arts supplement from the top of a tree whilst under the influence is not recommended.
Mikeandvan
20-07-2017, 13:03
Anyone not a liberal is a complete twat so that's a good thing. One dictionary definition of liberal is "not a bigot".
Yeh, another definition of Liberal is tolerant, and your above sentence is hardly that!
RothwellAudio
20-07-2017, 13:33
It is our duty not to tolerate intolerance. I am utterly intolerant of illiberal people and views.
Is this meant as a joke?
Arkless Electronics
20-07-2017, 14:45
Is this meant as a joke?
Absolutely not no! And as my last post has been deleted without even any reference to it ever existing that's me finished here as if I'm not allowed to insult bigots, racists, xenophobes, homophobes etc then I've nothing to say... Obviously I'm trying to insult such people as much as I can and cause as much offence as possible to them and I'll always do that!
If you are insinuating that we should tolerate racist, homophobic etc views and asking "Is this meant as a joke?" of me saying we should not tolerate it, then I'm truly shocked! I'm equally shocked that my last post has it seems been moderated to avoid offending someone who, reading between the lines, is admitting being a bigot!!
that's me finished here as if I'm not allowed to insult bigots, racists, xenophobes, homophobes etc then I've nothing to say... Obviously I'm trying to insult such people as much as I can and cause as much offence as possible to them and I'll always do that!
If you are insinuating that we should tolerate racist, homophobic etc views and asking "Is this meant as a joke?" of me saying we should not tolerate it, then I'm truly shocked! I'm equally shocked that my last post has it seems been moderated to avoid offending someone who, reading between the lines, is admitting being a bigot!!
But there haven't been any such views expressed so you are making a big assumption that there will be racist/homophobe/whatevers actually on the site and reading this in order to be offended by you.
Believing you have the moral high ground and that it therefore gives you the right to say and do whatever you like is a very dangerous place to be. Might I remind you that the Nazis were convinced they held the moral high ground and look how that ended?
You can leave posts expressing bigotry/racism/etc to the moderators to deal with. That is what we are here for. You want to conduct your own independent campaign against such ills that's fine but please do it somewhere else, where it might actually be required.
RothwellAudio
20-07-2017, 15:00
If you are insinuating that we should tolerate racist, homophobic etc views...
I'm not saying that we should tolerate anything in particular or be intolerant to anything either, I'm just pointing out that you appear to think intolerance in others is unacceptable but it's ok for you be to intolerant. Of course, that's ok because what you consider intolerable really is intolerable, whereas when someone else makes a judgement about what is intolerable they're wrong.
Isn't there a logical inconsistency there?
Arkless Electronics
20-07-2017, 15:04
But there haven't been any such views expressed so you are making a big assumption that there will be racist/homophobe/whatevers actually on the site and reading this in order to be offended by you.
Believing you have the moral high ground and that it therefore gives you the right to say and do whatever you like is a very dangerous place to be. Might I remind you that the Nazis were convinced they held the moral high ground and look how that ended?
You can leave posts expressing bigotry/racism/etc to the moderators to deal with. That is what we are here for. You want to conduct your own independent campaign against such ills that's fine but please do it somewhere else, where it might actually be required.
As is often the case I would need to raid the thesaurus to express just how strongly I disagree with you!
I'm not saying that we should tolerate anything in particular or be intolerant to anything either, I'm just pointing out that you appear to think intolerance in others is unacceptable but it's ok for you be to intolerant. Of course, that's ok because what you consider intolerable really is intolerable, whereas when someone else makes a judgement about what is intolerable they're wrong.
Isn't there a logical inconsistency there?
There are always logical inconsistencies when it comes to morality.
We regard being tolerant of others as a good thing, yet we regard tolerating things like racism or homophobia as a bad thing. So who decides what we should be tolerant of and what we should be intolerant of? This is where the problems lie.
Arkless Electronics
20-07-2017, 15:15
I'm not saying that we should tolerate anything in particular or be intolerant to anything either, I'm just pointing out that you appear to think intolerance in others is unacceptable but it's ok for you be to intolerant. Of course, that's ok because what you consider intolerable really is intolerable, whereas when someone else makes a judgement about what is intolerable they're wrong.
Isn't there a logical inconsistency there?
Read up on "the paradox of tolerance" and why the one thing it is always right to be intolerant of is intolerance!
Reading between the lines of what you say in your last post you seem to be suggesting that it merely my personal opinion that it is wrong to be racist, homophobic, xenophobic etc and that to hate black or gay people is a perfectly reasonable alternative opinion! If that is what you believe then I have nothing more to say to you. ever. If someone in a pub suggested to me it was perfectly reasonable to hate gay or black people they would probably leave in an ambulance and I'm very proud of being THAT intolerant of intolerance!
Arkless Electronics
20-07-2017, 15:23
There are always logical inconsistencies when it comes to morality.
We regard being tolerant of others as a good thing, yet we regard tolerating things like racism or homophobia as a bad thing. So who decides what we should be tolerant of and what we should be intolerant of? This is where the problems lie.
Most of us get a good handle on right and wrong at an early age. If you need to be told that it is wrong to be racist or homophobic then you inhabit a moral cess pit. Is it OK to find it amusing to kick a blind man's stick away... until being told it was morally unacceptable?
Then you're missing out. Sunday afternoons for me are about sitting in the garden in the sun with a G&T and working my way through the Sunday Times! :D
Lol... How very English! [Which I'm not in any way whatsoever] ;)
Sorry, I find reading newspapers extremely boring, unless it's the back pages of a Scottish tabloid reporting on a Celtic match!
Marco.
RothwellAudio
20-07-2017, 15:56
There are always logical inconsistencies when it comes to morality.
We regard being tolerant of others as a good thing, yet we regard tolerating things like racism or homophobia as a bad thing. So who decides what we should be tolerant of and what we should be intolerant of? This is where the problems lie.
Yes, exactly the point I was trying to make.
RothwellAudio
20-07-2017, 16:08
Reading between the lines of what you say in your last post you seem to be suggesting that it merely my personal opinion that it is wrong to be racist, homophobic, xenophobic etc...
Maybe you should just read the lines instead of imagining what you think might be between them.
The Guardian forum moderators thought your views were intolerable and wouldn't tolerate them. You thought their censorship was intolerant.
There always has to be a judgement made as to what is tolerable and what isn't, and liberty always has its limits. I may be liberal but I don't think people should be given the liberty to steal or rape or murder. Those judgements are probably not controversial, but how about polygamy? In some countries it's perfectly legal. What about child abuse? I don't doubt that we none of us here condones child abuse, but what actually is child abuse? You may be surprised if you google "age of consent" to find that in some European countries what is perfectly legal - and presumably socially acceptable - would be a crime here.
All I'm saying is that judgements are made and your judgements may not be the same as someone else's.
Where you get the idea from that I condone racism is a mystery.
prestonchipfryer
20-07-2017, 16:19
Leaving in an ambulance. Ha ha ha. What a bigot.
Ok, no more ... thanks. Will look at rest of thread later.
Yes, exactly the point I was trying to make.
I once had an extended debate on the subject with this bloke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Dancy who had just read us his paper entitled 'In Praise Of Intolerance' which sought to disentangle these dilemmas. Although it didn't and I said so. Think he might have narrowed his eyes a bit. Happy days.
Edit I see from the Wikipedia entry that he has now come round to my way of thinking. He has had 30 years to ponder it though.
Back when I were a lad, the lefties used to bang on about something called 'repressive tolerance', a term invented by some bloke called Marcuse. Wikipedia summarises it thusly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Critique_of_Pure_Tolerance
'In his contribution, Marcuse argues that the ideal of tolerance belongs to a liberal, democratic tradition that has become exhausted. Liberal society is based on a form of domination so subtle that the majority accept and even will their servitude. Marcuse believes that under such conditions tolerance as traditionally understood serves the cause of domination and that a new kind of tolerance is therefore needed: tolerance of the Left, subversion, and revolutionary violence, combined with intolerance of the Right, of existing institutions of civil society, and of any opposition to socialism.'
Or, as Humpty-Dumpty put it:
'When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'
Back when I were a lad, the lefties used to bang on about something called 'repressive tolerance', a term invented by some bloke called Marcuse.'
ah i remember him,i loved watching Eldorado :)
ah i remember him,i loved watching Eldorado :)
:lol:
https://s26.postimg.org/rn6rei7d5/cnyp_AV4.jpg
I'd laugh if I had a scooby what the joke was! Anyone care to explain? :)
Marco.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldorado_(TV_series)
it was set in spain,the phil mitchel type ganster in the series was called marcus tandy,his spanish girlfriend coudn't say marcus properly and so it sounded like marcuse...........
it was set in spain,the phil mitchel type ganster in the series was called marcus tandy,his spanish girlfriend coudn't say marcus properly and so it sounded like marcuse...........
Do you remember his car, Renault A610 Alpine. I drove one a long time ago, nearly gassed me with the fiberglass fumes. Went like stink though.
yep,i lusted over that car,it was blue iirc
Wheeler Dealers did one. Loads of problems with it.
walpurgis
22-07-2017, 14:23
Wheeler Dealers did one. Loads of problems with it.
I remember that.
Same engine as the DeLorean if I recall. Basically Renault 25/30 V6.
yep,i lusted over that car,it was blue iirc
Just for you matey
https://youtu.be/IB76TGwDeT4
it was set in spain,the phil mitchel type ganster in the series was called marcus tandy,his spanish girlfriend coudn't say marcus properly and so it sounded like marcuse...........
Cheers, yes I've heard of the TV programme. What I don't understand is how that relates to your reply to what Joe wrote earlier:
Back when I were a lad, the lefties used to bang on about something called 'repressive tolerance', a term invented by some bloke called Marcuse.'
What's that got to do with Eldorado, the TV programme, and why did Macca subsequently find your reply about it to Joe so funny? :scratch:
Marco.
Ninanina
22-07-2017, 21:42
Basically Renault 25/30 V6.
And they were all c**p... don't get me wrong I've owned a few Renault's in my time all of which handled well and their ride was nice but I wouldn't touch another with a bargepole...
Colin owned a very nice Volvo 760 which was superb apart from the V6 engine which was from Peugeot/Renault.... nightmare
I am a true believer now that Japanese is the way to go...
Cheers, yes I've heard of the TV programme. What I don't understand is how that relates to your reply to what Joe wrote earlier:
What's that got to do with Eldorado, the TV programme, and why did Macca subsequently find your reply about it to Joe so funny? :scratch:
Marco.
see post 48 :rolleyes:
Ah ok, I get it now. I think the joke is largely lost on you if you haven't watched the programme :)
Marco.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.