Rcm cleaning with a moth - what bits are best?

[The Black Adder]

Hi chaps.

I've recently got a moth RCM and wondered if anyone can recommend the best in the following:

Cleaning solution - always heard 'the right one' to be the best but that's now unavailable, what's the next best and where to buy?

Felt strips - where is the best place to buy? Ebay or other ones? Should these stick to the inside if the tube too?

Inner sleeves.. Currently using audio works which seem nice and good quality.

Outer sleeves, which ones are the best? And which ones are second best?

Any suggestions would be great

Many thanks
Jo



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[Truckletheuncivil]

The right one fluid is being sold by MCRU now. I've always outer covers from Covers 33. They're a good fit and last well - don't go yellow either. Last inner sleeves I bought were from Analogue Seduction - unbranded but good fit - went inside original inner sleeve if needed. Have fun hoovering

[The Black Adder]

The right one fluid is being sold by MCRU now. I've always outer covers from Covers 33. They're a good fit and last well - don't go yellow either. Last inner sleeves I bought were from Analogue Seduction - unbranded but good fit - went inside original inner sleeve if needed. Have fun hoovering
Hi Kevin.. Thanks.

I can't find the fluid on there, has it been rebranded?

BTW, Have you used the moth fluid?

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[Truckletheuncivil]

Hello Josie. I think it's sold as their own brand. I've never used the Moth fluid.

[struth]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mobile-Fidelity-Original-Master-Sleeves/dp/B001LQSFKY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499271255&sr=8-1&keywords=mofi+inner+sleeves

Best sleeves imo.

As for a brush.. tonar wet goat. Fluid...make your own.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Electronics-Photo/Tonar-Wet-Goat-Record-Brush/B00JFU533U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499271548&sr=8-1&keywords=Tonar+wet+goat+record+brush

[The Black Adder]

I have some IPA and distilled water.. Also have some kodak stuff, but it's out of date though.

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[struth]

If its not by much it will be ok if its been stored ok. Stuff i use isnt kodak. They say kodak one has something else in it. Heard of folk using it with no probs tho. Im happy with my mix, and been using it a long time. An anti static gun is another good purchase if you dont have one

[Clive197]

Best fluid: L'Art du Son. Available from MCRU or Amazon.
I use two types of inner sleeves. For sleeves that go into printed inners: Nagaoka. For new replacement sleeves: MOFI.
A good Goats Hair brush. Available from many online sites.

[karma67]

if you want to make your own i can recommend using triton x 5% added to distilled water,its the same as tergitol used here, https://www.nedcc.org/audio-preservation/cleaning-discs

i have tried ready made fluids in the past and honestly this is without doubt the best ive used to date,the results are far better and you can make litres of the stuff very cheaply,the triton x will last you years!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triton-X-100-Wetting-Agent-Surfactant-Detergent-Octoxinol-9-100-ml/122447238725?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[The Black Adder]

Hmm.. That sounds interesting. So it's just that and distilled water?

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[karma67]

yep,you can add 5% iso if you wish,the first 5 pages of is thread give you all the info,its written by a chemist not someone shilling a record cleaning fluid :)

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/record-cleaning-youre-doing-it-wrong.689430/

[topoxforddoc]

Josie,

My Moth RCM is now at least 20 years old and still going strong.

Don't worry about out of date photoflo. It's just a surfactant and keeps for ages. I have a very old bottle, which I use in my darkroom as well for film development - it's fine.

My RCM mix is (by volume) - 80% distilled water: 20% IPA with about 5 ml of Photoflo per 1L of wash mix. 1L will clean over 100 LPs.

Inner sleeves - depends whether you have printed inner or a plain inner If it's a plain inner, I just use the white poly inners from covers33. If it's a printed inner, I now usually use a separate plain inner for the LP and have the printed inner empty - alternatively I also Nagaoka inners inside a printed inner.

Outer sleeves - usually don't bother - just adds to the shelf inches - important if you have 000s of LPs

Velvet bits for the RCM - just buy from Moth or British Audio Products - just stick onto the horizontal vacuum arm next to the slit - no need to put anything inside.

Charlie

[Boyse6748]

For what it's worth, I've tried three mixes (homemade is best) with the right high quality ingredients.
1. The Right Stuff (sample supplied from this forum)
2. THe Jazz Collective recipe (just superb)
3. Project "Wash It" (Very Good)

Plus... as Struth puts it a good Wet Goat. [emoji41]

For me.... others may disagree, Number 2 does it for me at quarter of the cost of commercial stuff.


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[Boyse6748]

I apologies..... sorry a typo for fluid No 1

The "Right one" ........ not the Right Stuff.

Sorry...... it's an age thing.

Peter


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[walpurgis]

I apologies..... sorry a typo for fluid No 1

The "Right one" ........ not the Right Stuff.

Sorry...... it's an age thing.

Peter

Don't give me that Peter! Bet you're younger than me. :D

[alphaGT]

I've got a Pro-Ject RCM and love it. But it's not that different from the Moth. It has some fuzzy lips for the suction tube, but I think come time to replace them, I'll use the VPI replacements. Or perhaps make some from the replacement MoFi fuzz for their record brush.

Which is a good brush, but not my only brush. And expensive! $20 for a rubber block with a fuzzy stick on covering, but it does have a lot of surface area, and does a fair job of scrubbing records.

I use the MoFi fluid too, mainly because it's readily available and it works. Is it the best? I don't know. But I've got the regular wash, super wash, and enzyme wash, and haven't run into anything it didn't clean to my satisfaction. And at $30 a bottle it's not cheap, but a bottle will last a very long time, maybe 200 records or more?

And also I use the MoFi inner sleeves, I've never tried any others, but they seem to work just fine. I bought an RCM starter pack, that included the wash, the brush, and the sleeves, that's how I got into all the MoFi stuff, and it works. Is it best? I couldn't say. But it is readily available.


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[The Black Adder]

Thanks very much guys for your help. It's all great advice.

Hmmm.. So which avenue in regards to fluid? I'll have a think.

I always liked the Nagaoka sleeves but at the same time find the a bit fiddly. These analogueworks ones seem to be available and are cheap too.

Does anyone find Nagaoka ones fiddly or is it me? Lol

I ordered some furry lips (ooer) from analogue seduction, they were cheap enough.

The pics I've seen of the moth, the lips curl in to the slot, is that just another way of doing it? I ask because the edges of the strips feel quite rough and could potentially scratch the record?

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[Boyse6748]

Don't give me that Peter! Bet you're younger than me. :D

It's my 70th year this very day. Bet you can't beat that.[emoji41]


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[Macca]

Good luck with that - Geoff's older than Methusala

[The Black Adder]

Happy birthday, Peter 😀

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[topoxforddoc]

It's my 70th year this very day. Bet you can't beat that.[emoji41]


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Happy Birthday Peter! Hope you have a cracker :)

[walpurgis]

It's my 70th year this very day. Bet you can't beat that.[emoji41]

OK. I concede (just), 69 on 26th July! Happy birthday! :D

[struth]

old buffers... im still in my early 50's;)

[Bigman80]

30's. 🤣

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[walpurgis]

old buffers... im still in my early 50's;)

Hmm. :D

[HackneyRF]

I always liked the Nagaoka sleeves but at the same time find the a bit fiddly. These analogueworks ones seem to be available and are cheap too.

Does anyone find Nagaoka ones fiddly or is it me? Lol

Me too Josie, stopped using them and started using the very same Analogue Works ones. Good quality and not too expensive.

Oh and many happy returns Peter, hope you have a good day. :cool:

[The Black Adder]

30's. 🤣

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40's... ner 👍

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[Bigman80]

Lol

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[struth]

another tip with the moth... use old cds as label protectors. fits nicely over label before you screw the red top on:) saves on accidents

[The Black Adder]

Hey, I good idea, thanks Grant. 😁

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[GJO]

For water I would recommend this http://pureklenz.co.uk/purified-water-ep/?gclid=CLGp2-G69NQCFUWVGwod0aYNDQ as BP/EP grade water is manufactured to a defined specification,DI is not and the QC is generally rubbish,or in some cases non existent.I've worked on 100's DI/BP systems over the years and it's not uncommon to find diluted HCL and NaOh being passed to service from DI systems with the client being totally unaware as they had zero QC in place and relied on the plant alone,also DI will have high bacterial count's,not good for non alcoholic mixes as the bugs will grow quickly,see here http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/lart-du-son-vinyl-cleaning-solution-degrading.399260/

IPA can be purchase on line and I use dishwasher rinse aid as a surfactant.I tried lart du son but found it left a residue and needed another rinse with pure water to remove it,never bother with the IPA mix,once is enough.

[struth]

Hey, I good idea, thanks Grant. 😁

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i usually use my old cdr's the didnt work right or are surplus. you can use 2 to make it a tighter seal as 1 can buckle a little

[The Black Adder]

Thanks Graham and all for your input. I'll look in to that water... :)

BTW, how long do you leave your LP's for before putting them back in the sleeve? Some (including me) used to put them back in almost straight away but some leave them out for 30mins??

[struth]

mine are dry when they come off turntable Jo. I just hit them with the ion gun then into sleeves; my fluid is anti static but no harm in adding a blast from the gun too. which I have to say Ive ran out of again :doh:

[magiccarpetride]

Hi chaps.

I've recently got a moth RCM and wondered if anyone can recommend the best in the following:

Cleaning solution - always heard 'the right one' to be the best but that's now unavailable, what's the next best and where to buy?

Felt strips - where is the best place to buy? Ebay or other ones? Should these stick to the inside if the tube too?

Inner sleeves.. Currently using audio works which seem nice and good quality.

Outer sleeves, which ones are the best? And which ones are second best?

Any suggestions would be great

Many thanks
Jo



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I'm making my own cleaning fluid. 80% distilled water, 20% alcohol (99% pure), plus 5ml ILFORD ILFOTOL surfactant.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO5-W2MY5FzC34LRhPpAyIBpyvyv2Eq-2dA5AYdjQpW8YTjZnzfmcrcUTV7miBjPA/photo/AF1QipPHnthjCjWPN-DMZKTKykqOXlUesvqMEGEjSM4w?key=d0dpeDBmZks3VVlrVml ncFZqY3ZuTE9vUmtoQ2Jn

[The Black Adder]

Thanks very much, Alex for that.

Lol... Ilford, Kodak.. Takes me back to my uni days developing photos in creepy dark rooms.

I'll certainly keep that in mind and maybe buy some of that too.

Regarding outer sleeves, which ones are best as in thickness... Most are sold on the thickness in microns.. A bit geeky I know but hey I'm a geeky gal. 😁

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[struth]

Get the thickest ones

think this is the grade I use mostly. its been a while since I got any tbh....there is a thicker 520gm but dont have softeners in which I prefer.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50-12-inch-Vinyl-Record-Album-LP-450-Gauge-Polythene-Plastic-Sleeves-Covers/252944701504?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26 asc%3D44760%26meid%3D94749c5584b9472c92afdfe06046f 532%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp %26sd%3D262912183722

[karma67]

hi josie/grant
if you want to send me a small container i'll give you some of my triton x cleaning fluid already made up so you can try it :)

[struth]

Nice offer Jamie. If I find one I will let you know mate. Mine is made with the Ilford. I use about 10ml per litre tho. Find it works better for me. I wont mention my extra ingredient as some will have kittens;) Trust me it works

[karma67]

yes ive tried the ilford,imo the triton is better and its much cheaper,and most would have kittens if they new what i did before the vac stage.lol oh the poor misguided fools lol

[karma67]

i would guess your static secret brings you 'comfort' when you use it :eyebrows:

[struth]

yup, he smiles without wrinkling his disc-like face:ner:

[karma67]

sweet as :) im all for end result,not whats used or how you get there,whatever works best is best :)

[The Black Adder]

Aw.. Thanks very much, Jamie.. That's very nice of you... I'll be in touch. 😁

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[karma67]

your welcome :)

[magiccarpetride]

Thanks very much, Alex for that.

Lol... Ilford, Kodak.. Takes me back to my uni days developing photos in creepy dark rooms.

I'll certainly keep that in mind and maybe buy some of that too.

Regarding outer sleeves, which ones are best as in thickness... Most are sold on the thickness in microns.. A bit geeky I know but hey I'm a geeky gal. 😁

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Any time, Josie. I wanted to go with Kodak, since it is way easier to buy, but was warned from several sources that Ilford seems a better fit. Allegedly, leaves no residue (some claim that Kodak does leave unwanted residue). Purchasing Ilford is a bit more involved (I had to order it online), but not a big deal actually. And it takes only 5 ml per litre, so it's gonna last me forever.

The jury is apparently still out regarding the usage of alcohol on vinyl. In theory, some chemists are raising their eyebrows, but in practices many collectors swear that after decades of using alcohol on their LPs, no discernible deterioration could be heard/observed. And since 99% alcohol (one fifth in the litre of distilled water) appears to clean the grooves so thoroughly, I'm sticking with it. Way cheaper than enzyme based fluids.

[petrat]

When I bought my rcm from Audio Al, he kindly included a bottle of Moth's own cleaning fluid, which I have been using ever since. I was just wondering why it never seems to get recommended on the forums, as it appears to do the job quite nicely? Having no experience of other 'brews', I suppose it could actually be pants, but seems unlikely to me as I'm getting good results.

Actually, Josie, the absolutely essential Moth accessory is ... ear defenders :D

[struth]

When I bought my rcm from Audio Al, he kindly included a bottle of Moth's own cleaning fluid, which I have been using ever since. I was just wondering why it never seems to get recommended on the forums, as it appears to do the job quite nicely? Having no experience of other 'brews', I suppose it could actually be pants, but seems unlikely to me as I'm getting good results.

Actually, Josie, the absolutely essential Moth accessory is ... ear defenders :D

lol, yes, i wear in-ears.

[The Black Adder]

Pardon?

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[The Black Adder]

When I bought my rcm from Audio Al, he kindly included a bottle of Moth's own cleaning fluid, which I have been using ever since. I was just wondering why it never seems to get recommended on the forums, as it appears to do the job quite nicely? Having no experience of other 'brews', I suppose it could actually be pants, but seems unlikely to me as I'm getting good results.

Actually, Josie, the absolutely essential Moth accessory is ... ear defenders :D
Yes.. I would also like to know why. As it's made by them they should know what's best for their machines.

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[drSM]

Great tips here Thanks
I ve been what i ve been told is a chinese clone of the VPI RCM for a couple of years.
I ve been using detergents all this while but i ve assembled the stuff to make the proper stuff based on what i ve read in this great forum.

So I have the distilled water (from hospital lab, thanks v much) i have abt 2 L of rather expensive isopopyl alcohol ( made in the USA by Leica! for use in labs) and i ve got a bottle of Ilfotol off eBay.
Someone posted that they use ethanol instead of isopropyl (ispropanol)
Any theoretical difference ? if not would methylated spirit do ?

[struth]

no, use isopropyl. with 2 litres youve enough there to last you 10 years :eyebrows:

[The Black Adder]

Don't use meths, it leave a powered residue.

[drSM]

no, use isopropyl. with 2 litres youve enough there to last you 10 years :eyebrows:

Its true ! I ll use what i ve bought.
I am looking forward to trying this concoction.
I note that a few of you clean new vinyl before first play, as in Marco's post somewhere
That did puzzle me somewhat.

[struth]

no puzzle, they often still have some release compound on them from when they were in mould. a good wash and de static initially is a good idea. got one in this morning and although it looks perfect it will be cleaned. if i play test it first, it will be noisier... ive tested this before

[Macca]

Don't use meths, it leave a powered residue.

+1 - keep the meths for cleaning paintbrushes and the occasional wild party

[magiccarpetride]

Its true ! I ll use what i ve bought.
I am looking forward to trying this concoction.
I note that a few of you clean new vinyl before first play, as in Marco's post somewhere
That did puzzle me somewhat.

In a way, brand new sealed records can be even dirtier than old used records. At least with used records the stylus has gathered and collected all the debris that gets shipped with a new LP. So make sure you clean your stylus after playing a new LP (unless you've first cleaned the new LP).

[drSM]

Thanks for the explanations guys
Seems to me that the quality of some new vinyl leaves much to be desired both in the sound quality and gunk on them.
i ve been spinning LPs for decades - never ever cleaned new vinyl before.
Bought a RCM abt 3 years ago and always felt that it was to clean dirty old vinyl, besides fungus is an issue in the humid conditions here.

Turns out i have 3.8 L of isopropyl alcohol so I am set :)

[magiccarpetride]

Thanks for the explanations guys
Seems to me that the quality of some new vinyl leaves much to be desired both in the sound quality and gunk on them.
i ve been spinning LPs for decades - never ever cleaned new vinyl before.
Bought a RCM abt 3 years ago and always felt that it was to clean dirty old vinyl, besides fungus is an issue in the humid conditions here.

Turns out i have 3.8 L of isopropyl alcohol so I am set :)

I'm in the same boat -- never occurred to me that shrink-wrapped LPs would ever need cleaning. Until a friend explained to me that not only will new LPs sound much better after being cleaned, but the stylus will last longer etc.

When you think about it for a moment, record pressing plants are not exactly a surgically clean environment. There's lots of dust and other particles flying around, and any time you're handling vinyl, static builds up and attracts, like a magnet, those air borne particles. They then dive deep into the grooves, hence the sound on most brand new LPs is not always all it can be ;)

[struth]

meant to put this in here too.... amazon us do a inner sleeve called diskeeper by sleeve city. these are superb and cost 20$ imported for 50.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B1V2FA0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

ps they fit into printed inners too

[drSM]

I'm in the same boat -- never occurred to me that shrink-wrapped LPs would ever need cleaning. Until a friend explained to me that not only will new LPs sound much better after being cleaned, but the stylus will last longer etc.

When you think about it for a moment, record pressing plants are not exactly a surgically clean environment. There's lots of dust and other particles flying around, and any time you're handling vinyl, static builds up and attracts, like a magnet, those air borne particles. They then dive deep into the grooves, hence the sound on most brand new LPs is not always all it can be ;)

Reporting that I have made up my first litre of cleaning fluid ( 800mL distilled water, 200 mL isopropyl alc, 5 mL Ilfotol)
Used on a China made VPI clone.
Absolutely super stuff. Brilliant on old grimey records and on new vinyl.
Yes, I will be cleaning all my recently acquired new vinyl.