View Full Version : The Alphason has landed!
Bigman80
23-06-2017, 12:42
Well it arrived in one piece and was packaged incredibly well. It is fairly filthy to be honest.
Heres a few pics
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/cb8cdb07422ef19df0f9debc96b86979.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/4ff85dcafcb090dbd25776f57af6ffa2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/65487f0eaa423fca31a12bc66745ae6b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/aa64cbfe43468267515b5c5ab8bca49e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/f5a4f26e664ee94beaffeeada010af0c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/8e63360eb3f809a3b6e736c36078cc9b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/ded6416a81820f2f6060db57e0c43a5e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/903bb7230d6012479099f2ea55e15925.jpg
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Bigman80
23-06-2017, 12:46
Given it a very quick clean and its come up pretty well.
Now all I need is a way of getting it on the TT for a test run.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/817b237f1a09f12b8479e6476826c484.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/782a6ef79b2509078f55afb169d71b7f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/38b19ad0b763a091b57024fb41c540f5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/90a8439154526424cfbc5bc18a5bfce1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/87d2784ec329600236f6f504ba16ca21.jpg
Nice one Oliver. I will be very interested to see how it will be mounted on the SR without major surgery to the plinth. I think the effort will be worthwhile though as having experienced Jamie's Alphason on his Pioneer and the Elite Rock it is a fantastic arm.
Looks like a lovely arm and is the better mcs version.
I recently acquired Jamie's 774 which lost the fight against his Alphason, but would aspire to put an Alphason on my TD124 I think the s shaped arm really suits the classic decks.
Good luck with it I'm sure it will sound great.
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Bigman80
23-06-2017, 12:57
Nice one Oliver. I will be very interested to see how it will be mounted on the SR without major surgery to the plinth. I think the effort will be worthwhile though as having experienced Jamie's Alphason on his Pioneer and the Elite Rock it is a fantastic arm.
Thanks Ian,
The plan is to make (Geoff has volunteered his expertise) a 5mm thick SME sized plate with the four mounting screws to bolt directly to the plinth. On the underside of the plate, the screws for bolting the arm to the plate (Linn collar type) will be counter sunk and thus, flush with the plate. So plate to plinth, arm to plate type of thing. Luckily as Geoff has a Linn arm and a Toshiba TT he has the necessary components to do a fine job.
It should be pretty straightforward in theory lol
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walpurgis
23-06-2017, 13:56
And well worth the £180 I'll be asking. :eek:
(kidding :D)
Bigman80
23-06-2017, 14:06
And well worth the £180 I'll be asking. :eek:
(kidding :D)
Sweet Jesus! I'll sell it instead! ;)
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And well worth the £180 I'll be asking. :eek:
(kidding :D)
Bargain!!!, maybe Oliver can trade in the 774........:lol:
Bigman80
23-06-2017, 14:39
Bargain!!!, maybe Oliver can trade in the 774........[emoji38]
Lol, thats not going anywhere just yet.
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Firebottle
23-06-2017, 15:02
Nice gimbals .....oooh errr mother :eyebrows:
Bigman80
23-06-2017, 15:03
Nice gimbals .....oooh errr mother :eyebrows:
😂😂
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Wakefield Turntables
23-06-2017, 17:11
I think your going to have a very nice time with your Alphason. I have one which sits on my Lenco Reference deck at home. I had J7 fully service/fettle/re-wire mine and it's a stunner. A very underestimated arm.
Bigman80
23-06-2017, 17:24
I think your going to have a very nice time with your Alphason. I have one which sits on my Lenco Reference deck at home. I had J7 fully service/fettle/re-wire mine and it's a stunner. A very underestimated arm.
Thats good to know, Andrew. I am slightly concerned that I have spent a lot of money for not much, if any, improvement over the Mission 774 but I haven't heard it yet so im hoping its a clear winner! I dare say it will find its way to Johnnie when I have some money. If it beats the Mission of course!
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Lol, thats not going anywhere just yet.
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well that is just a matter of time now....glad its arrived safe,welcome to the alphason owners club :)
Bigman80
23-06-2017, 17:30
well that is just a matter of time now....glad its arrived safe,welcome to the alphason owners club :)
High buy in!!! Lol, Cheers mate. I look forward to trying it.
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Bigman80
23-06-2017, 23:46
I have made a MDF bass plate which is 7mm thick to see if the correct VTA can be obtained, when the plate is made up. I think this may be the only issue.
Correct distance between spindle and pivot is obtainable, the arm lift mechanism doesn't obstruct the speed controls etc it looks very good on the TT too.
I also hooked up the Cartridge and plugged the tonearm in to check for buzzing or any nasties and im happy to say none could be heard.
Under the arm mounting collar is a protrusion. Picture is just an example.
This fits into the SME cut out so that worry has been extinguished.
Looks like it will be pretty straightforward. Hopefully !
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/c124f512b872bcd94527744e02b44e61.jpg
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Bigman80
24-06-2017, 08:54
A bit of DIY for fault testing. I have the correct pivot to spindle distance but VTA is way off at the minute. I'll perfect it later and establish the null points too.
Everything works as it should though, which is a relief!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170624/838c20a1acaa72d8463684633cf70053.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170624/f59d37d5df3b3c6ad988b3bc3e6f5401.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170624/77a41221cf2c7c05c2b81c7ca07f8db9.jpg
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walpurgis
24-06-2017, 09:00
Any idea of what spacer/mount thickness yet Oliver? I'm sure it can be juggled to suit.
looking sweet as!
where does the 211 mounting distance put the alphason in relation to the sme cut out? can you still use the slot cut out in the tt plinth,if you can its just a case of making a plate to take the alphason and use the already threaded mounting holes for the 774 in the plinth. simples!
i didnt know the toshiba came in black,very nice :)
Bigman80
24-06-2017, 09:41
Its 6mm deep mate, 32mm diameter.
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walpurgis
24-06-2017, 09:46
i didnt know the toshiba came in black,very nice :)
Yes. I've wondered about that too. It certainly looks darker than the ones I've got.
Bigman80
24-06-2017, 09:50
Yes. I've wondered about that too. It certainly looks darker than the ones I've got.
It's not, its the lighting in my front room its a gunmetal grey colour lol
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Bigman80
24-06-2017, 12:40
Ive had a couple of hours playing with the Alphason. At first ot sounded very light on bass so i set the arm up properly, VTA etc and now it sounds a lot better but I seem to have lost the treble?
Obviously, until the arm is actually on the deck and correctly positioned and sweet spot is found, I cant be too judgemental but it sounds very good regardless.
It has VDH MCD 502 cable on it. Anyone every had it or tried it? Ive heard VDH cable described as lifeless. Any opinions?
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i cant comment on the vdh cable mine has cardas incognito wiring. i have read people rightly or wrongly call them van den dull .
Bigman80
24-06-2017, 13:08
i cant comment on the vdh cable mine has cardas incognito wiring. i have read people rightly or wrongly call them van den dull .
😂 spooky.
Looks like I need to visit Alan's for his soldering skills, or I might get it off to J7 and have a DIN plug fitted?
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i think we should both do the lottery tonight! lol
Bigman80
24-06-2017, 13:40
i think we should both do the lottery tonight! lol
Haha, id just thought that too 👻👻👻
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Bigman80
25-06-2017, 07:56
Well, after a day of listening to the Alphason, I am very impressed! Its not set up 100% accurately and im sure the VDH cable is holding back the performance. Ive had a chat with J7 and I am thinking the way forward is to have the 5 pin DIN installed (£35) and getting some of J7's super oxygen free cable (silver/copper hybrid) too at a later date.
Any opinions?
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Bigman80
25-06-2017, 08:00
looking sweet as!
where does the 211 mounting distance put the alphason in relation to the sme cut out? can you still use the slot cut out in the tt plinth,if you can its just a case of making a plate to take the alphason and use the already threaded mounting holes for the 774 in the plinth. simples!
i didnt know the toshiba came in black,very nice :)
It looks as though 211mm distance does allow to use the SME cut put so that's a bonus. Only problem is the plate will have to be quite thin as the height of the arm is going to play a part. Geoff is currently making me a 6mm plate so if I cant achieve VTA at that height, I'll look at getting a thinner one. 😁👍
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nice one olly,im glad its coming together nicely.
mine has been wired straight through with no din connection,food for thought?
its good you can use the sme slot,it would seem something along the lines we talked about on the phone would be needed,ie a rock2 simple mounting plate,ie to mount the arm and also cover up the rest of the slot.
iirc its a 30mm hole for the alphason collar :)
https://s26.postimg.org/rnz6y7ozt/IMG_1555_1.jpg
This is what I used on the Tosh when I fitted the jelco SA 750db.
Worked very well.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-Pcs-Premium-Quality-Solid-Natural-Ebony-Wood-Guitar-Headplate-200-88-3-mm-/281774992810?hash=item419b192daa
Wakefield Turntables
25-06-2017, 17:44
Well, after a day of listening to the Alphason, I am very impressed! Its not set up 100% accurately and im sure the VDH cable is holding back the performance. Ive had a chat with J7 and I am thinking the way forward is to have the 5 pin DIN installed (£35) and getting some of J7's super oxygen free cable (silver/copper hybrid) too at a later date.
Any opinions?
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Go for an IKEDA rewire and silver tags if you can afford it. Having a 5 pin din plug is very good if you want to try new tonearm cables, otherwise you can foresake the 5 din plug (and another component in the signal path) and have a complete run of IKEDA silver into some yummy silver RCA plugs. :D
It looks as though 211mm distance does allow to use the SME cut put so that's a bonus. Only problem is the plate will have to be quite thin as the height of the arm is going to play a part. Geoff is currently making me a 6mm plate so if I cant achieve VTA at that height, I'll look at getting a thinner one. 😁👍
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Alphasons seems to always need an additional collar making, speedy steve made mine.
Bigman80
25-06-2017, 17:48
Go for an IKEDA rewire and silver tags if you can afford it. Having a 5 pin din plug is very good if you want to try new tonearm cables, otherwise you can foresake the 5 din plug (and another component in the signal path) and have a complete run of IKEDA silver into some yummy silver RCA plugs. :D
Alphasons seems to always need an additional collar making, speedy steve made mine.
I wish I had the money to go the IKEDA but its not really an option.
Was your collar off speedy steve thinner than the stock version?
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Bigman80
25-06-2017, 18:35
Any idea how to fix the arm lever as the arm drops way too quickly ?
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another job for j7 i think olly
Bigman80
25-06-2017, 19:13
Ah, pants. I'll see what the cable change reveals then I'll charter the path.
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Wakefield Turntables
25-06-2017, 19:20
I wish I had the money to go the IKEDA but its not really an option.
Was your collar off speedy steve thinner than the stock version?
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I think if your going to use J7's services you might as well go the "Whole Hog" and get what you can afford. The collar from Speedy Steve was originally made to the exact same specs as the Alphason original but I made my own collar from EVA to increase the Alphason's VTA range. I use my Alphason on a very heavily modded Lenco. :eek:
Any idea how to fix the arm lever as the arm drops way too quickly ?
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I had this problem on mine and he fixed it.
another job for j7 i think olly
+1 don't bugger about just get him to fix it. ;)
Bigman80
25-06-2017, 19:20
Lol. Fair enough.
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I'm sure you are far more capable than me Olly but when I put my sausage fingers near my SME I end up having to send it to J7 to sort out. Fiddly thing these arms......
Bigman80
25-06-2017, 19:58
I'm sure you are far more capable than me Olly but when I put my sausage fingers near my SME I end up having to send it to J7 to sort out. Fiddly thing these arms......
Hahaha yes I tend to break things too.
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Bigman80
27-06-2017, 22:55
After deciding the VDH cable needed to come off I then had a think about which direction to go in. I didn't want to spend a lot as I don't know whether the Alphason is a keeper yet so I decided on this stuff.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/interconnect/van-damme-2.html
Looks interesting. I'm going to put some on the Mission 774 to try and keep some consistency.
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Bigman80
04-07-2017, 17:01
Well, thanks to Geoff and Alan the Alphason is on.
Quite lovely it looks too. Needs extra weight at the headshell due to having the heavy counterweight on the back.
Build quality is quite superb and it sounds very sweet.
More to come.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/4006734e0758bcf8ed49864f9a992633.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/bdfe00670e983fec405e4c71d7155910.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/e010a85d295464932564db4ff625b5b4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/117971218d85c3cd4e327f2be7034257.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/a5e90a7e54d44684e9c69cda68012a57.jpg
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in my day that dod of putty would have been an old penny :ner:
that looks much better,love the plate,simple and affective
Bigman80
04-07-2017, 17:37
Lol Grant, yep. I've ordered a headshell weight so it'll pretty it up a bit. Very good arm
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Bigman80
04-07-2017, 17:37
that looks much better,love the plate,simple and affective
Geoff's handwork mate.
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Firebottle
04-07-2017, 17:50
The screws fitted then :thumbsup:
in my day that dod of putty would have been an old penny :ner:
Cheapskate! My first record player (a Dansette - like device) could only play Cream's eponymous LP if I put a florin (a two bob bit, or 10p in new money) on the headshell. The record could be played but it didn't do it any good! :doh:
Bigman80
04-07-2017, 18:14
The screws fitted then [emoji106]
Yes mate, spot on.
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Bigman80
05-07-2017, 12:11
Couple of pics with new headshell weight. Big thumbs up to Juno for free next day delivery!!! Didn't order it until 15:00 yesterday and it was here with the postie today
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170705/3119385a76183a26e44ce9fbc8fdaa83.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170705/4c61bec9549a335c99a261479d1441a5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170705/c9252411c12fda6f5f5e3f71520b9334.jpg
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That is a really neat job and avoids all the cutting and filling I had visions of. The Alpha looks like it was made for the Toshiba, but then it looks very hansom on Jamie's tt too lol. I'm defo going to have to find an SME 4 or 5 now just to keep up haha.
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 12:48
That is a really neat job and avoids all the cutting and filling I had visions of. The Alpha looks like it was made for the Toshiba, but then it looks very hansom on Jamie's tt too lol. I'm defo going to have to find an SME 4 or 5 now just to keep up haha.
This was my idea from the start and luckily, Geoff being the engineer he is, already had it in mind too. As usual, without the guys on here it would've been a non starter. It looks superb and I am big enough to admit I underestimated the Alphason. Alan has done a magnificent job of getting the Klotz cable into the arm too.
No need to keep up mate! I'd like to try an SME 309,IV and V. They look very special. My only reservation with SME is I feel they are a bit over-damped.
I
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This was my idea from the start and luckily, Geoff being the engineer he is, already had it in mind too. As usual, without the guys on here it would've been a non starter. It looks superb and I am big enough to admit I underestimated the Alphason. Alan has done a magnificent job of getting the Klotz cable into the arm too.
No need to keep up mate! I'd like to try an SME 309,IV and V. They look very special. My only reservation with SME is I feel they are a bit over-damped.
I
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I know what you mean about the damped sound but since my sausage finger accident, a service and rewire with VDH silver wire by J7 and a spanking new Klotz/MS Audio tonearm cable courtesy of Brian, the 3009 has been transformed.......I think even Jamie quite likes it!
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 14:17
I know what you mean about the damped sound but since my sausage finger accident, a service and rewire with VDH silver wire by J7 and a spanking new Klotz/MS Audio tonearm cable courtesy of Brian, the 3009 has been transformed.......I think even Jamie quite likes it!
I would imagine the performance will have been lifted quite substantially from stock. If you're happy Ian, don't mess with it lol
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If you're happy Ian, don't mess with it
thats not a valid reason not to upgrade :D
so i take it the alphason is better?
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 15:58
thats not a valid reason not to upgrade :D
so i take it the alphason is better?
I don't know if "Better" is the right word.
There are aspects like space and air which the Alphason is ahead but the bass on the mission is tighter and firm. There's benefits to either. The soundstage seems wider and the music seems to flow naturally with the Alphason. The Mission is so articulate and detailed that sometimes it deconstructs the music. I also noticed the Alphason is a lot less cluttered (?) sounding
It's close between the two. The other problem I have is I'm testing the MK2 FB-OTP at the minute so I haven't got the same phonostage I used with the mission so all of these differences could be down to the much improved phonostage. Luckily, Alan is coming over on Monday with the MK1 OTP so I can do a more accurate comparison.
In a nutshell, I can't be 100% until I get the MK1 back in.
I prefer the look of the Alphason. That's got nothing to do with phonostages lol it's easier to get set up perfectly too. My only complaint is the Allen key tightening on the CW. It's wank and moves every time you try to just set it right. I also have no sibilance at all now which I did have a little with the mission but that again will be my fault because I could never get the cart correctly aligned.
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you do know that you set the weight at the balance point then turn the black sleeve for setting the tracking weight yes?
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/alphason-designs/hr100s.shtml
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 16:11
No lol. I'd better read that 😂😂😂😂
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Bigman80
05-07-2017, 16:20
you do know that you set the weight at the balance point then turn the black sleeve for setting the tracking weight yes?
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/alphason-designs/hr100s.shtml
I'm a proper nobber some days 😂😂😂https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170705/f2fbad6fddbe5298aada10fec051eb17.jpg
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:lol:i think you'll find it a lot easier now :)
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 16:35
[emoji38]i think you'll find it a lot easier now :)
No kidding,. Just got it dialed in perfectly. Ridiculous that I didn't read the manual haha.
Set the Bias weight right too I think. Sounds better again!
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Still not got my new one set up properly yet. Physically not going to happen for a while either. Doh!
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 17:52
Still not got my new one set up properly yet. Physically not going to happen for a while either. Doh!
What you got, Grant?
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What you got, Grant?
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new cart.. An adc xlm1.. its fitted to the arm and working but not been finetuned. quite a nice sounding cart. bit of a bargain
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 17:57
Ah, yes I saw that. Finely tuned always makes a difference.
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As far as I'm aware Alphason didn't do a 'heavier' counterweight and yours looks just like the one I have. As such you shouldn't need a weight on the headshell. If adjusted correctly you want the counterweight as close to the bearing housing as possible. As suggested earlier, the black counterweight sleeve should be wound on until it is a couple of turns from the bearing housing. Then undo the grub screw holding the counterweight and balance the arm (leaving the black sleeve where it is). Then tighten the grub screw on the counterweight (gently) and turn the counterweight and black sleeve (now locked together) to apply the tracking weight. Do all this with the bias detached and then when the tracking weight is applied fit the bias weight.
apart from the bit about the black sleeve,the manual states you wind it out until you can just see the black ring underneath,then balance the tonearm,lock the counterweight and turn the black sleeve to the desired tracking weight.
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 18:57
Trouble is guys, the ZYX IS STUPIDLY LIGHTWEIGHT. I can't get the weight close enough to the bearing without it hindering the movement, unless I don't have the arm pillar rotated enough.
Have a look at the pic and tell me what you think.
And according to this there were multiple weights
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170705/19e49ce9778a2ee0cbfeeb48cb551178.jpg
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 18:59
Is this right? I did it like this so the arm was lined up when in the rest. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170705/b6d92c8323d61e0530e7bc829cb862d2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170705/d3f5eac0a3769d77af468f9fc2559649.jpg
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well its a hell of a lot closer than mine! lol
https://s26.postimg.org/5k7v3obbd/IMG_1563_1.jpg
but then ive got the rock paddle stuck on the front,
https://s26.postimg.org/46g88dc21/IMG_1565_1.jpg
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 19:32
I've just tried without the headshell weight and the CW is way too close to the pivot rings (?) It restricts the movement. I've now done it the way the book states with the weight on the cart and it's sweet as a nut. The arm rest position is the same as yours Jamie so im happy with that.
Learnt a fair bit tonight lol. #Alphasonexpert 😂
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Bigman80
05-07-2017, 19:35
Just an aside, J7 at Audio Origami contacted me the other day to see if I'd managed to get the arm fitted. I'd enquired with him to see if he had any ideas about the availability of any mounting plates, to which he didn't. I thought it was very nice of him to ask.
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he's a good bloke mate,im currently trying marks approach and getting the weight as close as possible to the pivot point,luckly mine came with a heavier counter weight :)
https://s26.postimg.org/8guw3yh55/IMG_1568_1.jpg
ihave some bronze bushes from a lift mechanism somewhere,they may be suitable to machine into counterweights if you want to go down that route,let me know :)
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 19:54
he's a good bloke mate,im currently trying marks approach and getting the weight as close as possible to the pivot point,luckly mine came with a heavier counter weight :)
https://s26.postimg.org/8guw3yh55/IMG_1568_1.jpg
ihave some bronze bushes from a lift mechanism somewhere,they may be suitable to machine into counterweights if you want to go down that route,let me know :)
Oooh. I'm definitely interested mate. I'll drop you a text.
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ok i dont want to jump in straight away and declare it sounds better but it would seem it does,so if im not imagining it,what has moving the counterweight closer done and why? is it a resonance/mass thing?
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 20:56
ok i dont want to jump in straight away and declare it sounds better but it would seem it does,so if im not imagining it,what has moving the counterweight closer done and why? is it a resonance/mass thing?
I suppose the response would be faster as the distance between CW and stylus is less? I thought the same but wasn't gonna say that lol
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walpurgis
05-07-2017, 20:57
is it a resonance/mass thing?
Yes.
Yep, it certainly does look there were multiple counterweights - my mistake :). I've never seen one that looks obviously bigger or smaller though. Of course it's possible one of you has the heavy and the other the light weight - perhaps you should weigh them and swap if needed?
'Speedy Steve could machine you both replacement counterweights from stainless steel (which is what Alphason used so should match well)
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 22:19
Well, Jamie has two and I have one. I think I have the intermediate one so that just shows how light the ZYX is. I presume Jamie has a plan lol
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walpurgis
05-07-2017, 22:48
Once I get my workshop back together again (eventually, in a month or two maybe). I plan to make custom counterweights and other bits. Initially for the 774, but other options may be considered.
Bigman80
05-07-2017, 23:23
Once I get my workshop back together again (eventually, in a month or two maybe). I plan to make custom counterweights and other bits. Initially for the 774, but other options may be considered.
Ah ha! This is good news.
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i have a few of these bronze bushes,the hole in the middle is too big for them to used as counterweights but they are big enough to be machined so they slip over the original cw. not sure what they would look like though.
https://s26.postimg.org/yadmw5ebt/IMG_1569_1.jpg
Bigman80
06-07-2017, 16:17
That's pretty cool actually. Extra weight if needed hmmm
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Bigman80
06-07-2017, 16:42
How about an arm collar too? Bronze coloured CW weight addition and collar would look pretty cool too.
Wakefield Turntables
06-07-2017, 20:49
I'm very thankful for this thread as I didn't have my own Alphason quite set up correctly, so many thanks. I only wish I could have added more to this excellent thread.
Bigman80
06-07-2017, 21:12
It has been rather helpful lol
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I'm very thankful for this thread as I didn't have my own Alphason quite set up correctly, so many thanks. I only wish I could have added more to this excellent thread.
The mounting distance is bang on for the Lenco:D
Bigman80
07-07-2017, 09:37
I did mention that to Alan lol
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Yes I agree Oliver it would be a nice upgrade for Alan's Lenco or an Ortofon 212.
a bit of cw porn lol
https://s26.postimg.org/jjngbyzm1/IMG_1571.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/4z6dh54nd/IMG_1572.jpg
i didnt want to mirror polish it as i like the brushed look of the tonearm.
walpurgis
07-07-2017, 11:32
Linn LV-V fits and works very well. They sound far better than most folk would credit. Nice little arm, well made with proper Japanese quality finish. I have one in my collection.
Bigman80
07-07-2017, 11:40
a bit of cw porn lol
https://s26.postimg.org/jjngbyzm1/IMG_1571.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/4z6dh54nd/IMG_1572.jpg
i didnt want to mirror polish it as i like the brushed look of the tonearm.
You've made that? Looks outstanding!!!
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Bigman80
07-07-2017, 11:40
Linn LV-V fits and works very well. They sound far better than most folk would credit. Nice little arm, well made with proper Japanese quality finish. I have one in my collection.
Yes, good reviews on those, Geoff.
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walpurgis
07-07-2017, 11:41
Yes. It looks very good Jamie.
You've made that? Looks outstanding!!!
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no mate,it was the extra one that came with the arm,i just gave it a polish,i dont know enough about tonearm mass and resonance to work out if its too heavy,one things for sure though,the standard weight is not heavy enough to counter the extra added weight of the rock paddle,it has to go too far away from the pivot point.
Bigman80
07-07-2017, 11:46
Lol, fair enough
Yeah, seems to be an illusive bit of detail to find out. I know J7 makes them but I can't ask him just to steal his knowledge lol
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barry on this forum knows a lot on this subject,hopefully he will see these posts and help.
Bigman80
07-07-2017, 11:53
Ah, fingers crossed
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Bigman80
08-07-2017, 18:46
any updates olly?
Well, it's not really an update, more a confusing conundrum.
I got the Klotz cable on the arm, put it on the TT and set it up as according to the manual. I've played maybe 30hrs of Vinyl and I just don't love the Alphason. I like it. It looks outstanding. It feels wonderful and really catches everyone's eye. I think as far as looks go, it's a winner. The sound though is not doing it for me and I don't know why. There's no reason it shouldn't be very pleasing and I can't figure out why I feel the way I do.
I don't think it's an issue with the cable or the wires either. There's no play in the bearing and it shows no signs of any physical reason which could explain not to liking it.
I'm really frustrated and I'm already considering moving it on. I feel gutted really.
(Mood killed) lol
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BET YOUR GLAD YOU KEPT THE MISSION .. doh..caps lock lol ... ight just be the cart being a very light one and isnt meant to be on that arm.
Bigman80
08-07-2017, 18:52
BET YOUR GLAD YOU KEPT THE MISSION .. doh..caps lock lol ... ight just be the cart being a very light one and isnt meant to be on that arm.
There is something not working together somewhere, Grant. I am glad I kept it but feel a bit lost as of where to go next. No way I'll sell the Toshy. Maybe I don't go anywhere and put the mission back on and enjoy the obvious synergy there.
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aybe borrow a decent (heavier)cart and try it. at least then you will know
Bigman80
08-07-2017, 18:57
aybe borrow a decent (heavier)cart and try it. at least then you will know
Not a bad idea. I wonder if Alan still has his Denon????
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Well, it's not really an update, more a confusing conundrum.
I got the Klotz cable on the arm, put it on the TT and set it up as according to the manual. I've played maybe 30hrs of Vinyl and I just don't love the Alphason. I like it. It looks outstanding. It feels wonderful and really catches everyone's eye. I think as far as looks go, it's a winner. The sound though is not doing it for me and I don't know why. There's no reason it shouldn't be very pleasing and I can't figure out why I feel the way I do.
I don't think it's an issue with the cable or the wires either. There's no play in the bearing and it shows no signs of any physical reason which could explain not to liking it.
I'm really frustrated and I'm already considering moving it on. I feel gutted really.
(Mood killed) lol
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hmm,ok well was it sounding the same before the rewire?
re cartridge it may be worth sending barry a pm to check the cartridge resonance figures are ok for the arm
re tonearm synergy with turntable,i dont know if this is deal breaker,my hr100 has been fine on a pioneer plywood plinth/panzerholz board and equally fine on the townshend rock metal/plaster plinth and metal tonearm board.
Firebottle
08-07-2017, 19:04
You are very welcome to borrow it. It's a bit of a step down from the ZYX though.
walpurgis
08-07-2017, 19:05
I just don't love the Alphason
Oddly enough Oliver. I just had a feeling you might come to that conclusion. We each try various gear and sometimes it 'clicks' and you feel happy and other times, as you say, the love does not develop. Could be worth experimenting further. Or just bunging the 774 back on and seeing how that works for you.
I had the same with my Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk.II speakers some years ago. I bought them new for around £1200 after everybody was saying they were the best compacts about, but just did not come to terms with them. All part of the Hi-Fi experience mate.
If you do part with the Alphason, keep the mounting plate. You never know, you may want to try a Linn arm on the Tosh sometime.
Bigman80
08-07-2017, 19:06
hmm,ok well was it sounding the same before the rewire?
re cartridge it may be worth sending barry a pm to check the cartridge resonance figures are ok for the arm
re tonearm synergy with turntable,i dont know if this is deal breaker,my hr100 has been fine on a pioneer plywood plinth/panzerholz board and equally fine on the townshend rock metal/plaster plinth and metal tonearm board.
Jamie, the Klotz really opened the arm up mate. It sounds shat before lol. In all honesty, it doesn't sound bad. Those that have heard it, love it. Various comments like, neutral, lush, accurate, beautiful tone, realistic vocals have all been said to me. The channel separation is amazing and the clarity is spot on.
I haven't been hit by a WOW moment.
It's seems very happy on the phenolic armboard too. Much better than my temporary plywood box anyway lol
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Bigman80
08-07-2017, 19:10
Oddly enough Oliver. I just had a feeling you might come to that conclusion. We each try various gear and sometimes it 'clicks' and you feel happy and other times, as you say, the love does not develop. Could be worth experimenting further. Or just bunging the 774 back on and seeing how that works for you.
I had the same with my Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk.II speakers some years ago. I bought them new for around £1200 after everybody was saying they were the best compacts about, but just did not come to terms with them. All part of the Hi-Fi experience mate.
If you do part with the Alphason, keep the mounting plate. You never know, you may want to try a Linn arm on the Tosh sometime.
There was a moment with the Mission, very early on and I thought "oh my god, what magic is this!"
I do think it's a personal thing. A mate of mine offered me £500 after the first few bars of "When I'm 64" He adores it. I don't know what it is.
I don't want to throw in the towel just yet. I'll bung the mission back on just to see if I'm remembering it with rose tinted glasses and the Alphason is better.
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lol you seem to be doing the same as i did but i reverse re the 2 tonearms,i did just that,rewired the 774 and it just wasn't there,i took putting the hr100 back on to confirm which one i thought was better,fingers crossed you get relief what ever arm you prefer .
walpurgis
08-07-2017, 19:20
I'll bung the mission back on just to see if I'm remembering it with rose tinted glasses
I doubt it. I've used loads of arms, but whenever I bung the 774 back on, I just get a grin on my face and think 'this sounds right'. It's not the greatest arm in the world, but it does have some magic.
Bigman80
08-07-2017, 19:26
lol you seem to be doing the same as i did but i reverse re the 2 tonearms,i did just that,rewired the 774 and it just wasn't there,i took putting the hr100 back on to confirm which one i thought was better,fingers crossed you get relief what ever arm you prefer .
Lol, who knows. I'll see what happens. If the Alphason doesn't do it for me then it will for someone else.
And yes Geoff. There is a "rightness" about it.
Bloody tonearms lol
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Maybe the Mission has certain synergy with particular decks? I heard it on a 401 and it was stunning.
The Alphason is a class tonearm but I would say quite a different beast from the Mission which has great damping ability.
I am not a fan of gimbal bearing tone arms but done well like these two arms are shows they can perform very well. I would always be worried about the bearing assembly being out of spec both regarding wear or torque, but that's just my paranoia :)
Ultimately I suppose you have to go with your ears and deck compatibility etc but I think I would choose the Mission just because of the extra damping ability. Maybe tough decision?:scratch:
Bigman80
08-07-2017, 21:28
The Mission is back on. I've fitted some Van Damme cable (not my favourite stuff) to it as I have used my only bit of Klotz on the Alphason!
And the enjoyment is back. First song "He ain't heavy" and I'm pulled in to listening to the Snare and following drum roll and it's made goose bumps pop up.
I can only imagine there is some kind of synergy at work with the TT and Arm that just isn't happening with the Alphason.
Looks like it's off the the Private exhibitions area.
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Bigman80
09-07-2017, 10:10
I refitted the Alphason this morning, left the headshell weight off and set it up according to the manual.
There's a change in the sound!
Feels a bit more agile and quick now. The bass has improved and the soundstage is larger.
I like it a bit more now. Hmm. I'm sick of tonearms lol
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walpurgis
09-07-2017, 10:13
I'm sick of tonearms
It'll drive you nuts Oliver. :D
Bigman80
09-07-2017, 10:17
It'll drive you nuts Oliver. :D
You're right, Geoff. I think I've been looking at it in the wrong way. The truth is neither is better than the other really, they just do things in a different way. I think the Mission is more analytical and I fingers myself listening to individual instruments of a song rather than the song itself but the Alphason seems to dig deeper into the bass and goes a bit higher in the treble but I'm listening to the whole song.
It's crazy how everything sounds so entirely different and I think the new approach will be to not find better but to find what's to my taste.
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walpurgis
09-07-2017, 10:21
The truth is neither is better than the other really, they just do things in a different way.
I suspect that may be the case. And if you borrow Alan's Denon, that will confuse the issue further. Worth a try though, Denon MC's like the 774.
Bigman80
09-07-2017, 10:23
I suspect that may be the case. And if you borrow Alan's Denon, that will confuse the issue further. Worth a try though, Denon MC's like the 774.
Lol, I don't need any further complications at this point 😂😂😂
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of course you do ;) its these things that keep you interested ....heaven forbid you start, just listening to tunes:D
Bigman80
09-07-2017, 10:44
of course you do ;) its these things that keep you interested ....heaven forbid you start, just listening to tunes:D
Haha. I know! I got into this because of my love of music and have spent more time F'ing about than listening. I seem to have hit the sweet spot with the Alphason. Suffice to say it's now rather impressive. Dire straits is on now. Rather excellent it is too.
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Bloody hell this threads got more twists and turns than an Agatha Christie novel.
I would say once you settle on which ones staying on I'd really take my time in setting it up dead right
Bigman80
09-07-2017, 11:32
Bloody hell this threads got more twists and turns than an Agatha Christie novel.
I would say once you settle on which ones staying on I'd really take my time in setting it up dead right
Lol, worse than a soap. It is sounding very good at the minute
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So given this: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?52584-Alphason-HR100MCS-Tonearm, I take it you're back with the Mission?
I have eight tonearms, and love them all; though not with all cartridges. Some arms seem to 'gel' better with some cartridges than other carts.
nope all change since then barry :)
Like I said tough decision, nearly as difficult as choosing new cartridges although some stand out from the crowd as being exceptional. I think it all boils down to preference and I have had this discussion with Alan quite a few times. Sometimes a piece of equipment just sounds different and not necessarily better, it's all down to preference. That's also why I think a number of us have more than one TT and certainly more than one cartridge. Nice to have a range of gear that suits your mood or inclination.
I bet if your heard a really good unipivot you would be off down the rabbit hole again!:)
Bigman80
09-07-2017, 18:11
Like I said tough decision, nearly as difficult as choosing new cartridges although some stand out from the crowd as being exceptional. I think it all boils down to preference and I have had this discussion with Alan quite a few times. Sometimes a piece of equipment just sounds different and not necessarily better, it's all down to preference. That's also why I think a number of us have more than one TT and certainly more than one cartridge. Nice to have a range of gear that suits your mood or inclination.
I bet if your heard a really good unipivot you would be off down the rabbit hole again!:)
Ah, the unipivot. Recommended one. I may sell the Alphason and buy something else.
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walpurgis
09-07-2017, 18:40
The only unipivot I've owned was a Decca International. The original and best with the metal headshell and opposing magnet pillar suspension. Very good sounding arm, but quirky. Sounded great with my Deccas in. No better than the 774 though or I'd still be using it.
The Decca International is good, but then so is the Hadcock (as is the original Audio & Design arm (later known as The Keith Monks KMAL)).
IMO unipivots are more bother to set up and use than they are worth, and the only reason why people like them is because of the pivot damping used, though I'm not sure if that applies to the Naim ARO.
You mention some good ones there Barry but there is also Moerch,Graham phantom, Michelle, Goldnote, Nottingham Analogue and of course VPI!
Bigman80
10-07-2017, 07:10
I've never heard of VPI. They are beautiful turntables! Are they as good as they look?
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I've never heard of VPI. They are beautiful turntables! Are they as good as they look?
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You will get to hear one soon if I can get a free day evening sorted. Yes they are very good turntables indeed. All American built, superbly engineered and very substantial. Take a look at their website and have a look at the Avenger and you will see what I mean. They are not cheap but you get your monies worth. Their tonearms are manufactured by themselves and are extremely well engineered and both simple to set and have lots of adjustability.
Bigman80
10-07-2017, 12:45
You will get to hear one soon if I can get a free day evening sorted. Yes they are very good turntables indeed. All American built, superbly engineered and very substantial. Take a look at their website and have a look at the Avenger and you will see what I mean. They are not cheap but you get your monies worth. Their tonearms are manufactured by themselves and are extremely well engineered and both simple to set and have lots of adjustability.
Oh sweet. We need to sort a day out! I'll bring the Toshy lol
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Bigman80
10-07-2017, 12:48
Well I've had quite a revelation this afternoon. Alan and I swapped out the prototype MK2 OTP for the near production version and the Alphason really sang. I mean REALLY sang. Under investigation it seemed there was a compatibility issue with the Burson V5 opamps.
With some new standard opamps in the Alphason came alive. Absolutely outstanding. So, the Mission will be up for sale shortly.
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walpurgis
10-07-2017, 13:30
Shouldn't you try the 774 into the revised setup too Oliver?
Give it up Geoff its beat lol
Bigman80
10-07-2017, 14:09
Shouldn't you try the 774 into the revised setup too Oliver?
I don't want to Geoff lol.
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I used to be uncertain, but now I am not so sure.
:lol:
walpurgis
10-07-2017, 14:23
I used to be uncertain, but now I am not so sure.
:lol:
I take it that's definite? :D
Bigman80
10-07-2017, 14:24
I used to be uncertain, but now I am not so sure.
[emoji38]
😂😂
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Bigman80
11-07-2017, 11:49
Well a few hours of listening with the new arm and replaced opamps has shown me one thing. The Alphason is incredibly good. There was a feeling of sadness when I packed the Mission ready for posting last night but listening today, I haven't missed it so looks like I finally got round to making the right decision!
I look forward to hearing how the new owner of the Mission gets on with it and after a chat, I think the thread he'll create will make for good reading.
Thanks for all of your help and input.
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Theres absolutely nothing missing from my Mission 774/ZYX combo either mate, but theres a hole left from Jamies (lack of) comparison between the two a few weeks back ����
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come on then Shakespeare lets have your 14 page write up!:lol:
Bigman80
11-07-2017, 16:06
come on then Shakespeare lets have your 14 page write up![emoji38]
Hahaha I knew that'd come back to bite me !!!
Leave it with me.
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come on then Shakespeare lets have your 14 page write up!:lol:
:lol::lol::lol:
Bigman80
11-07-2017, 17:04
Rather than write a comparison piece, i am going to collate my opinion and my experiences during this journey.
So, First up, Lets go with:
Aesthetics,
No prizes for guessing which one wins! The Alphason is stunning. It has all the desirability and beauty one would expect upon seeing it in the flesh. Its very sleek, eye catching and probably wouldn't look out of place on most TT's
On the other side, The Mission is very attractive, to me at least. I really like the look. Its designed to do its job without any extra embellishment and that theme kind of runs throughout my thinking with the 774.
Flexibility and adjustments
The winner here is the 774. It is possibly the most adjustable arm around. VTA, Azimuth, VTF, Damping and rewiring with this arm is an absolute walk in the park. It can take almost any Cart and with some fine tuning, will perform at an elite level. There are a few DIY mods available too which push this arm into the Super arm territory and it can quite easily belong there.
The Alphason has VTA and VTF. Looks a bit devoid of features in comparison!
DIY-able?
I have no technical skills at all but the 774 was never in any danger. everything is easily accessible and swapping interconnects was as simple as one can hope for, if you have a soldering station. The Alphason is nowhere near DIY friendly and should be fettled by a professional. For me the 774 wins this section too.
Sound
Well, this is the only section that should matter, isnt it?
First up, this isnt as wide a gap as one would have thought. I plugged the Alphason in and expected it to blow my mind and make the 774 look like a toy, but it didn't . That was in part down to a dodgy Opamp in the phono stage. Once this was fixed, the Alphason showed why its considered one of the best arms ever made.
At this point, i want to say very clearly, that i tested both arms thoroughly by ear only.
To my ears, the Mission 774 is incredibly agile, digs out every inch of detail possible and creates the sense of it not even being on the TT. It is transparent and invites you into the recording. I am a huge fan of this arm and would happily buy another in the future, if i needed another arm for any reason. Detail, Detail, Detail. It is accurate and precise. Bass is tighter than tights and treble is delivered with the accuracy of a sniper. In my opinion, the only area it fell down to the Alphason was Musicality, depth and soundstage.
The Alphason, oh Alphason! It HAS blown my mind. Alan and i listened to a track called "Pacific AM" by Yello. I was transported from my chair to a pirate ship, somewhere near Persia during an epic storm. It was phenomenal. Now, i don't want to exaggerate, but seriously, i was there. On the deck, getting sprayed by salty sea spray from the waves. It was a crazy five minutes. Actually, it was exhilarating! In my time with the 774, i hadn't ever felt like that and this is where the Alphason is a step ahead. The soundstage now feels like my room is a concert hall. The 774 has the knack of sounding bigger than it should, but not to this extent. The Alphason is definitely producing lower frequencies too, its very sub like and there is a delicacy to it. My only criticism of the Alphason is that the bass doesn't feel quite as tight as the 774. The Alphason cant match the attack the 774 delivers bass with, but the 774 doesn't get a low, so how does one choose?
Midrange is a close affair too. The best way to describe it is, the 774 is solid state and the Alphason is all Valve. There is very little to choose from, but those who know the sweet sound of midrange through a valve amp, also know its the best way to hear it. The 774 is more than capable of producing a sweet midrange but just not to this degree. Sweetner compared to syrup.
Treble is a bit of a contentious point to me, it has to sound realistic. Cymbals should sound metallic, shakers should sound wooden and i want to hear the breath in vocals. Both arms do this very very well and its hard to pick a winner. The treble is probably a bit more natural with the Alphason but the 774 is only a hair away, if that.
Verdict
In my opinion, you can not buy a better tonearm than the Mission 774 for less than £250. Seriously, it is a giant killing, understated, underappreciated piece of British history. It absolutely destroyed a Rega 250, Sony PU7 and an SME 3009 S2. It is a wonderful arm and i would recommend it to anyone who was looking around that price range.
The Alphason is a better arm IMO but not by much and certainly not X2 as good as the price suggests. I paid £600 for mine and its not £350 better than the Mission BUT it is better. I haven't heard vinyl sound as good as this from any TT.
If either arm comes up in your budget and you need or want an arm, buy one.
Quick thanks to, Geoff, Alan and Jamie who contributed in someway to get this arm up and running on my TT. This is a great forum. Thanks guys.
Firebottle
11-07-2017, 17:31
Cracking descriptions there Oli :cool:
Just a little correction, the Yello track was 'Pacific AM', but wasn't it astounding :eek:
Bigman80
11-07-2017, 17:38
Cracking descriptions there Oli :cool:
Just a little correction, the Yello track was 'Pacific AM', but wasn't it astounding :eek:
Thanks Al, I only glanced at the listing as you put the LP away. It was outstanding.
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Great write up Oliver. Glad it's working for you.
That's tremendous Olly, better than any magazine report. :clap:
Bigman80
11-07-2017, 17:57
Great write up Oliver. Glad it's working for you.
Thanks Johnjo. It's wonderful to hear vinyl sound so good!
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yep,got to agree,very good right up,well done mate. im glad it all turned out right in the end :)
now if only you could persuade Alan to send out a demo pair of them mono blocks.......
Bigman80
11-07-2017, 18:02
That's tremendous Olly, better than any magazine report. :clap:
Ha, thanks Ian. I dont know about that though lol
Bigman80
11-07-2017, 18:03
yep,got to agree,very good right up,well done mate. im glad it all turned out right in the end :)
now if only you could persuade Alan to send out a demo pair of them mono blocks.......
HaHa, he hasnt got a pair made up made. They are literally made to order. You are welcome here for an audition anytime mate.
Bigman80
11-07-2017, 19:30
Here you go, Jamie. Yummy Monoblocks https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170711/a57675b5e338e8538fccf105706697e0.jpg
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Nice conclusion to your tonearm adventure Oli.:thumbsup:
I know the track Pacific AM well ;)
Bigman80
11-07-2017, 19:55
Nice conclusion to your tonearm adventure Oli.[emoji106]
I know the track Pacific AM well ;)
Thanks, James. I appreciate that. It's not the easiest thing to summarise thoughts into legible sentences lol.
Just seen you have the VPI as your profile pic. I'm looking forward to hearing one!
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Thanks, James. I appreciate that. It's not the easiest thing to summarise thoughts into legible sentences lol.
Just seen you have the VPI as your profile pic. I'm looking forward to hearing one!
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It will certainly be in action when you come round.:)
Bigman80
11-07-2017, 20:41
It will certainly be in action when you come round.:)
😁
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