CD player improvements

[Ian7633]

After having spent quite some time and money on my vinyl source I'm very happy with the results and have now turned my attentions to the CD section. I like how the Marantz CD6005 reproduces music but I've always wanted to warm up the sound. The first change was to add an external DAC in the form of a Musical Fidelity X DAC. The improvement was immediate, very lively and deeper bass. Next was the addition of a Musical Fidelity X10v3 tube buffer, thanks Grant, and although quite subtle the warmth depth it adds makes listening even more of a pleasure. I'm planning to change the Marantz for a better CD transport only in the near future and would welcome any thoughts or suggestions. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170621/e65fdd6a50a771a054a1badf12c390c2.jpg

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[Barry]

Since you are enjoying the benefit of an MF dac and buffer, s there a Musical Fidelity CD transport you could use?

[struth]

look good together. yes the mf cd player I heard was very good.

[Ian7633]

I had thought the MF transport would be a contender. Thanks chaps for your thoughts :thumbsup:

[Spectral Morn]

I had thought the MF transport would be a contender. Thanks chaps for your thoughts :thumbsup:

MF only made one dedicated transport and to get the most from it you need the matching DAC. I was not though impressed with it. It was called the KW25.

[Ian7633]

MF only made one dedicated transport and to get the most from it you need the matching DAC. I was not though impressed with it. It was called the KW25.

Thanks Neil, I thought maybe the A3 CD player might be a good transport. Also read that the Meridian transport is pretty good. It's all new to me as in the past I've just plucked the player from it's box and plugged it in but now I'm leaning the benefits of external units.

[Yorkshireman]

Whats your budget, for the CD transport / player.

[Spectral Morn]

You need a dedicated transport, not a CD player with a digital out. Dedicated means it was designed to have the best output for digital transfer and an optimised mechanism to extract the most from a CD.

Here are a few off EBay. The TEAC VRDS models are going to be the best on this list. I left over £1000 off figuring you wouldn't want to spend as much.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TEAC-VRDS-10SE-Special-Edition-CD-Player-Transport-/222546727833?hash=item33d0d19399:g:130AAOSwGJlZOCQ 7

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Theta-Data-Basic-II-CD-Transport-/112427451428?hash=item1a2d32c424:g:neIAAOSwsXFZMA8 J

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cyrus-CD-t-CD-Transport-/112446797511?hash=item1a2e59f6c7:g:-ZcAAOSw1WJZLICU

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CD-transport-Teac-UNIT-P-500-/302342835603?hash=item4665098d93:g:qNMAAOSw~y9ZDsQ B

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TEAC-VRDS-T1-CD-Player-Trichord-clock4-new-Sony-Laser-and-transport-/182614220111?hash=item2a84a7dd4f:g:Ik4AAOSwbtVZOu9 X

[Ian7633]

Whats your budget, for the CD transport / player.

Looking to spend £500-£600 but may go a bit more

[Ian7633]

You need a dedicated transport, not a CD player with a digital out. Dedicated means it was designed to have the best output for digital transfer and an optimised mechanism to extract the most from a CD.

Here are a few off EBay. The TEAC VRDS models are going to be the best on this list. I left over £1000 off figuring you wouldn't want to spend as much.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TEAC-VRDS-10SE-Special-Edition-CD-Player-Transport-/222546727833?hash=item33d0d19399:g:130AAOSwGJlZOCQ 7

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Theta-Data-Basic-II-CD-Transport-/112427451428?hash=item1a2d32c424:g:neIAAOSwsXFZMA8 J

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cyrus-CD-t-CD-Transport-/112446797511?hash=item1a2e59f6c7:g:-ZcAAOSw1WJZLICU

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CD-transport-Teac-UNIT-P-500-/302342835603?hash=item4665098d93:g:qNMAAOSw~y9ZDsQ B

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TEAC-VRDS-T1-CD-Player-Trichord-clock4-new-Sony-Laser-and-transport-/182614220111?hash=item2a84a7dd4f:g:Ik4AAOSwbtVZOu9 X

Thanks Neil, the Teacs are very interesting, I'm learning a lot here

[pgarrish]

I own a T1 Teac. Just be realistic, they are 25 or so years old and AFAIK the 10 and upwards have lasers that cannot be replaced. The 1 (and 7) can be replaced, but mine has just killed the sled cog which was £45 to buy, and they also kill the drawer cog, another £45 plus fitting.... That said, I've paid to have it repaired as the rest of the box is (apparently) bomb proof, they look the biz and they do sound good (I have the matching DAC, and of course, all transports sound the same).

Can you turn off the DAC section on the Marantz? That may improve things a bit...

[Ian7633]

I own a T1 Teac. Just be realistic, they are 25 or so years old and AFAIK the 10 and upwards have lasers that cannot be replaced. The 1 (and 7) can be replaced, but mine has just killed the sled cog which was £45 to buy, and they also kill the drawer cog, another £45 plus fitting.... That said, I've paid to have it repaired as the rest of the box is (apparently) bomb proof, they look the biz and they do sound good (I have the matching DAC, and of course, all transports sound the same).

Can you turn off the DAC section on the Marantz? That may improve things a bit...

I've got the Marantz's DAC turned off, it did improve things. I guess it's the problem with all older equipment but also older stuff can be made a lot better, my 35 year old turntable a case in point. It's handy to know the potential problems with any piece of equipment so thanks for the heads up.

[Macca]

How did you disable the DAC? Is there a switch/button or did you have to do something internally?

[karma67]

If I remember correctly Ian said to me it's switches off when you plug the optical cable in.

[Macca]

Just wondered as when I try to use my Parasound as a transport I can't get a peep out of it (although it bills itself as a 'cd player/transport'). Thought there might be something I'm missing. Not tried it with optical though, only sp/dif.

[Ian7633]

How did you disable the DAC? Is there a switch/button or did you have to do something internally?

According to the manual when you plug the optical cable into the CD player the internal DAC is disabled. I did try it with a coaxial cable but the sound was no where near as good

[smithie]

i wouldn't get to carried away with a quest for "the best transport"
its really gonna be the digital output thats gonna make one better over the other along with the error correction and servo with todays cd mechs,good power supply helps too...dont cambridge do a dedicated one for around £300 or something,they usually build half decent stuff spec wise dont they?.
been through plenty in my time in this game...ironically the best sounding i ever came across to my ears was a cheap pioneer sacd/dvd..656a player or something like that...later found out it had a buffered 5-6 memory digital output and a killer sinewave:D....but didnt keep it because it was just way to cheap,and looked it:lol::lol::lol:

of course its only my opinion and ears...so worthless advice i guess,just thought i would share:)

regards
smithie

[Theadmans]

I am in the camp where I am unconvinced of paying out a lot for a dedicated transport.

I use a Pioneer Stable Platter PD-S705 CD player as a transport for my Beresford Caiman SEG Dac. It cost £39 in mint condition off eBay. It has a button which can switch off the analogue output (also the display can be switched off). The Stable Platter mechanism reads even beat up discs quickly and efficiently. Also there were thousands of the Pioneer sold so there are always plenty of spares available.

BTW I also run a Musical Fidelity Tube Buffer with my setup. Mine is the older X10D I had it completed overhauled by Mike the guy at Rock Grotto. I also bought one of his Little Pinkie power supplies for it. Looks like they do an upgrade and power supply for your X10 v3 too :-

Upgrade Kit:-
http://www.rock-grotto.co.uk/x10v3mods.htm

Little Pinkie Power Supply :-
http://www.rock-grotto.co.uk/pinkiepsu.htm

[Ian7633]

Trust me Paul, I know so little about this that all thoughts and advice are very welcome, after all experience is often the best information.

[steve-z]

I personally haven't owned a CD player for over 10 years having been advised by a knowledgeable person of the benefits of having ones music collection imported into iTunes as lossless files on a Mac computer and using it as a music server, the imports are all bit perfect and the replay via the Mac does away with all the problems of real time playback i.e. jitter. It's far more convenient being able to find any track or album and having it playing within seconds. It's also ideal for anyone with a stand alone DAC or amp with a digital input as the Macs have an optical digital output. CD replay is so 1980's now, get a Mac and get into the 2010's [emoji6]


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[Ian7633]

I am in the camp where I am unconvinced of paying out a lot for a dedicated transport.

I use a Pioneer Stable Platter PD-S705 CD player as a transport for my Beresford Caiman SEG Dac. It cost £39 in mint condition off eBay. It has a button which can switch off the analogue output (also the display can be switched off). The Stable Platter mechanism reads even beat up discs quickly and efficiently. Also there were thousands of the Pioneer sold so there are always plenty of spares available.

BTW I also run a Musical Fidelity Tube Buffer with my setup. Mine is the older X10D I had it completed overhauled by Mike the guy at Rock Grotto. I also bought one of his Little Pinkie power supplies for it. Looks like they do an upgrade and power supply for your X10 v3 too :-

Upgrade Kit:-
http://www.rock-grotto.co.uk/x10v3mods.htm

Little Pinkie Power Supply :-
http://www.rock-grotto.co.uk/pinkiepsu.htm

My v3 has had the upgrades done before I got it but the power supply looks very good. I've heard good things about the Pioneer stable platter units.

[Spectral Morn]

Transports make a heck of a difference. Those that say any old thing will do etc to my mind haven't really tried many out.

Dedicated transports make a big difference and in regards to best sound Coax should be best (if implemented via a bnc that would be best) then the xlr type, then last optical unless its an ATAT one, but those are rare in the UK.

The mechanism is very important as are other factors mentioned, and in my experience DVD or PC drives are not as good as a dedicated CD only mech, VRDS, Philips Pro, CDM1.

I have compared many over the years but the real smacker re this was comparing two Esoteric transports the P5 and P3, both using Teac VRDS mechanism, though with differences, but a common heritage, both also contemporary to each other.

Based on the usual straw man arguments the dearer transport, £7000 dearer, should have sounded exactly as the P5 did. It didn't. It destroyed the P5. More information retrieval, greater depth of soundstage, width, height, tonal shades better delineated, more weight and scale, more 3 dimensional, bass deeper with more nuancing. Every where it was better. Of course I am deluded and deaf..... not. Deaf man on a galloping horse, in a wind tunnel could have heard the differences.... not subtle.

I have heard this sort of thing over the years, Micomega transports, Audiomecha transports, Wadia, etc, etc.

The cambridge audio is not going to be a patch on a more vintage transport, re this modern isn't best as frankly few companies use, or can get dedicated mechanisms, and some PC, DVD transport isn't anywhere near as good as a well made, solid old school, CDM 1 or Philips Pro or VRDS.

[smithie]

Trust me Paul, I know so little about this that all thoughts and advice are very welcome, after all experience is often the best information.

hi ian
i never like giving advice,at the end of the day its just a opinion and a conclusion that ive come to ,and i would also add that ive had some great fun with the journey,so dont deprive yourself of that by taking anyones views as gospal ,play and try if you can...always trust what your hearing and what you like...no rights or wrongs here,its just what suits you and your system best:cool:
ill add some of my thoughts when i can and share....just knee deep with a soldering iron and a precision cdp and pds901 at the moment:lol::lol:

regards
smithie

[roob]

If you want something modern and decent sounding then the Cambridge CXC fits the bill at £300.
Someone on pfm reckons it outperforms his Naim NDX!

[smithie]

ok...first off i better state that transports do make a difference:D and i see that some of the old great classic mechs and transports have been mentioned and praised,and i for one totally agree with that view,trouble using and buying them these days is there fetching silly money and alot could end up as expensive paper weights when the laser and various other parts eventually chucks in the towel,plus theres the balance thing....are you gonna really pay silly money for a transport when your using such a modest dac(not knocking anyone's dac,just pointing out that the deminsing returns thing can kick in quick in this game and it can be easy to get carried away with it all).
so many things come into play regarding a great sounding transport....stick a heavy house brick on top of a biscuit tin cd player and you should hear a worth while improvement....so solid heavy build is a plus,good independent power supplies,glass over plastic laser lens,suspension,clamping etc etc...everything makes a difference,then theres more....error correction,buffers,connections....no wonder they can sound different
:stalks:
so first off i would say....set the price you want to pay for the cd player/transport,and consider that price in relation to how good you feel your dac is,for me i would spend the most on the best dac i could afford and get something cheap and s/h for a transport,but my dac needs are very high as i run alot of stuff through it and it acts as a hub in my system,and not just used for a cd purpose:cool:
if you go modern and dedicated cd player then i think your find its only sanyo that makes the mechs /assemblies these days,but im not 100% on that:),i guess what im saying is there all going to be a much of muchness there so now you need to start taking into account build,power supply's etc to see if any have upped the game over others you may be considering.
i see pioneer stable platter has been mentioned,and i think thats good advice and worth a try to see what you think...the stable platter bit is a total gimmick unlike the original highend versions of yesteryear that they are based on,but there fast and great readers regarding discs and have a clean digital output...just look for one with a coax output,and one where the laser lens hasn't fell out:lol:....pds505 would be good as they moved the rf section to the laser assembly for slight improvement in sound and seem to go cheap,i picked one of them up for £25,and you get to hear legatolink as well for free:lol:
just borrow,beg,steal and try any and all that you can till you find and hear something that suits you ian,dont dismiss dvd players to...im remembering a sony 7700 and pioneer 717 sounding pretty good at some point to....then if you have a large hifi rack go and find a old laser disc player....rush andrews swore by them:lol:
once you have found the transport/cp of your dreams,look for someone to mod your dac and transpor/cdp so that the transport/cdp is clock locked to the dac,if possible.

regards
smithie

[Ian7633]

I just like to say a huge thanks to everyone for all the great advice and information, it's given me much to think on. After much reading and digesting I've bought a Cambridge CXC, thanks for the info Andrew. The plan being that it will work well with my current DAC/tube buffer but will benefit from better spec units as and when I want to upgrade.

[Macca]

Please let us know what you think as I am considering buying one of those

[smithie]

way to go ian.
look forward to your review:D
regatds
smithie

[Colinijohnson]

Interesting...On upgrading my system, I bought a musical fidelity ac3 power amp (modified by jsaudio) to use with my Cyrus 7 as a Pre amp. I also acquired a Meridan 561 for basic home theatre 5.1, and to add a sub.
I haven't set up the power amp & Meridan yet, and I realise it's a bit dated - my question is - would its DAC be an improvement for my intended purchase of a musical fidelity CD player or indeed my dragonfly which I use for lossless streaming ( I think my ho laptop has a digital out!?).
I realise the only was it to try, but advice would be useful ... if possible I'd like to lose the Cyrus as a Pre should the Meridan prove superior....


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[smithie]

colin
i think you've hit the nail on the head by saying "you need to try it for yourself":D
i think it may just be "different"...of course that " different" may be more to your liking,or it may not:lol:
...................
the fact that its old shouldnt be held against it,providing it can meet your needs and functions,some of the best dacs ive heard have been really old tech.
ive always loved the look of the early meridan gear,just never got on with its house sound:)...but great stuff for sure,and that 561 sure looks a lovely unit....would love one of them just for the hell of it:)
be interesting to hear your views and findings once your up and running and playing.

regards
smithie

[Colinijohnson]

Thanks - I'll post results as soon as I get chance to audition & try everything.


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[Ian7633]

The Cambridge CXC CD transport arrived this morning and was plumbed in straight away.
First impressions are very good, the first thing you notice is the amount of detail, I'm hearing subtle edges I've not been aware of before, the acoustic guitar on Steven Stills first album is stunning, full of movement and life. George Michael's Ladies and Gentlemen is like taking a bath in warm sumptuousness and his voice is so clear and rich. John Barry and Chris Otti's soundtrack to Playing by heart, which is loaded with loud and very quiet brass is so dynamic but is in no way tiring to listen to.
I've really noticed the CXC's timing is spot on and where as my Marantz could get a little lost there's no sign of it with the Cambridge.
Build quality is as you would expect from Cambridge and the remote is nice and simple and will control other units in the CX range.
I've tried both the Toslink and the coaxial outputs but I couldn't find any differences, probably just my old rock star ears not quite as sharp as they once were.
Overall I think that for less than £350 it's a bit of a bargain.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170626/daa81e52c144744cfcf0753817506147.jpg

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[struth]

nice looking unit ian.. does it only have digi outs then? what if any extra features has it?

[Ian7633]

It being purely a transport there are only digital outs, there are two RCA sockets on the rear panel but these are for wired remote connection to other CX units. It's quite basic on the features front, just repeat or random play and you can dim the display or turn it off altogether. There are no facilities to program the playback order and it doesn't have text display. It seems Cambridge put their efforts into the sound quality and I think it really shows.