Cheap upgrade for michell gyro

[gwernaffield]

Hi i have just done some very cheap upgrades that really work to my gyro , changed the suspension tower ball bearing to Delrin 7/32 and that made a great difference the cost we £2.88 for 10
Bought a ceramic ball bearing and replaced the 7/32 steal one with the ceramic one cost was about £6 , for 5 , added zx1 super lube to the oil a friction reducer cost was £6.90, this helped a lot in reducing the drag of the main bearing so much so i had to adjust the speed with the Nc power supply , also made a ptfe cartridge damper out of 1.5 mm sheet Teflon, cost £5
all bought off eBay , and all work the first upgrade helped in the voicing, it cleared things up , the changing of the main bearing to a grade 5 7/32 bearing made a lot of difference as the ball is more rounder then the standard ball. so helped with any noise coming from the bearing , the PTFE damper worked great that made the bass have a bit more extension , i also bought some 50mm M5 Nylon cheese head screws£4 to replace the steel ones in the arm board , had a Delrin spacer made to go under the arm board a bit like the Gert Pederson one but cost less than £8 , the machining done on that by the supplier who charged me £10 for doing that so the total cost with machining was £18 all in , i also used nylon 2.5mm screws to lock the cartridge onto the tone arm , so the only thing that 'rings' is the cartridge , also added some 1.5mm sound dead matt to the inside of the tower covers, and 3 'o' rings to the bottom of them
At each stage of these cheap Mods which can be reversed and not cost a fortune if you don’t like the results, but everything to me made a difference, to the sound quality and the depth of sound , i was hearing at very little cost. All bought off eBay

[Gazjam]

Excellent post Peter.

As a Michell owner myself I've dabbled with various upgrades alomg the way, haven't thouht to replace the steel ball bearings. :thumbsup:

can you give a link so I can pick some up mate?
thanks.

oh,
do you have the Orbe screw down clamp?
Dampning the inside of it with isodamp compound made amworthwhile improvement.

[gwernaffield]

Hi i don’t use a clamp , i have a great big 700grm weight ,got fed up with pushing the dam clamp on and off and then buying the screw down version all the parts i used were off eBay , i made spacers and drilled them off using the std arm board , they are similar to what gert pederson arm board looks like but with the use of Delrin and nylon bolts (chees head screws) no need for 'o' rings , as nothing should travel down the nylon , before if you tapped the deck ,the tone arm would pick it up as the connecting bolts allowed it , but now i can tap the deck and no extra noise out of the speakers , only when the record is on the deck and playing should you hear anything ,
the little peace of 1.5 mm 18mm x18mm PTFE has stopped a lot you can either buy them already made off eBay for £20 or make one for £2 , as i said all the stuff was bought off eBay , some i had to wait for as they came from china grade 5 ceramic ball bearing , the plastic ones Delrin http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEARING-OPTIONS-DELRIN-SOLID-PLASTIC-BALLS-/201117934008?var=&hash=item2ed39021b8:m:mtTKdrAqXMLtlBRE0h0_taQ
all the little tweaks or upgrades done dont require you to drill or damage the orbe or the gyro in any way ,even the use of Blu tack to keep spacers in place all can be removed so not to damage the deck
i had to cheat a little bit over the weight i put a double pulley on the motor and bought some 10mmx10mm x 1mm stainless springs to go under the suspension legs although they do not quite touch the chasse just stuck on with blue tack ,they stop any excessive bounce , which may damage the suspension due to the extra 750grm weight , so far it should kick the orbes bottom as i have had 2 orbes in the past with sme V on ,both never sounded a sweet and as clear as the gyro i have now ,

[Gazjam]

Fascinating stuff Peter, have dabbled a lot tweaking my 'Gorbe' deck over the years and you've done stuff I hadn't even thought of! :)

Sent you a PM.

[alphaGT]

Fantastic stuff Peter, I am a tinkerer too. DIY can be every bit as effective as store bought, and quite often better. I'd love to see some pictures to help me visualize some of these upgrades you've managed! I'm guessing many of your improvements could work on any 'table, not just a Mitchell.


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[gwernaffield]

2057320574205752057620577for t

hi i have atteched some pictures , as the odyssey is not a normal deck to begin with , it has the orbe case and a spider , the main part being full of densodamp
there was not much left to do ,
so i have made a home made spacer ,which i had machined of a company on ebay that also supplied the material at £18 , it isthe same diameter as the michell arm board with a 85mm hold cut in the centre , by what ever thickness you need, it is held into place by Nylon Cheese head screws 40 to 50 mm long and m5 thread , also the screws that hold the Cartridge on are nylon to save weight,
i made the damper out of PTFE sheet , less that £3 ,
there are 3 20mm x 1mm "o"rings on the bottom of the covers for the suspension,
also some 1.5mm sound damp the same as you use in cars , inside the tubes ,
the rest was the ball bearings and changed to ceramic ,then to delrin , the to torlon and now PTFE for the main thrust bearing
3 delryn for the suspension ,

i later added a very expensive MJ12 Matt and the weight , as i got fed up unscrewing and screwing the clamp on ,i had to put 6 10mm x 10mm x1.5 mm springs under the suspension
towers to stop any excessive bounce due to the extra weight the TT mat and weight has added ,
i have since used the sign stand offs to support the rear corners of the case with the deck being a 3 point support the rear is left to do its own thing , i noticed that the corners were sagging and causing the arm to be pulled to that direction so i bought a glass sign standoff , which cost £6 , it acted like a jack and is supporting the corner of the case , but not so much as to lift it off the designed feet ,they are made of aluminum , and come in diffrent sizes and colours ,

peter

[mad-moon]

Excellent post....I'm using a logic DM101 turntable...I've purchased the Delrin balls and the ceramic ones too...I've got a sheet of teflon1.5mm thick...and also ordered the nylon nuts and screws for the cartridge..(Goldring Eroica LX)...I've replaced the main bearing with one of the Delrin Balls...what a difference...very little noise now and all I here is the music...I'm going to cut out a damper for the cart tomorrow and fix the cart on with nylon nuts and screws...it can only get better..Don't think I'll even bother with the ceramic ball bearings.....the Delrin ball is staying where it is....Excellent tweaks Peter..many thanks...

P.S....anyone with a Logic DM101...the bearing is 6mm..

I got mine here x5 for £2.40..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEARING-OPTIONS-DELRIN-SOLID-PLASTIC-BALLS/201117934008?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=500287904262&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[gwernaffield]

hi the delrin balls are for the suspension towers , the cermic ball is for the main bearing , the size of the balls used are all 7/32 that is the correct size ,not 6mm as they are 2 big according to the michell specs , also cause excess wobble ,I i have attached pictures of every thing i bought of eBay ,
cheers
20593205902059120592

[alphaGT]

Great stuff! Such a sense of accomplishment when your mods pay off! Now I'm searching my 'table for anything I can try a nylon screw on!


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[gwernaffield]

yep i could not Believe
The difference they made , also the ptfe- Teflon damper for the cartridge I used 1.5mm as this can be cut with a pair of scissors , and then drilled using an old head shell as a template , and then cut out to fit ,you can buy one at £20 which is 3mm thick ,but I found the 1.5mm works for me
the only problem i found was the head on the Nylon screws are Bigger, so to make them smaller i put them into a drill and used a file to make them smaller, the Nylon is tough , i kept the Nuts for the cartridge as they are smaller then the nylon ones ,but used the washers so they do not touch the head shell, or arm ,
if you want to try a delrin ball in the main bearing ,keep an eye on it to make sure that there are no changes in size or shape, Delrin is used for making all kinds of stuff including gears also delrin balls are grade one the highest grade you can get for roundness and smoothness, the ceramic balls are grade 5 , the steel balls are normaly grade 10 , unless it is aspecial order and 4 times the cost of grade 10 ,
i found the white ceramic better than the black one, the black ones can be bought off ebay under the cycling section as they are used for race cycles , the white type are imported from china , and are used in diffrent applications , and can be run dry ,but i would not reccomend that , and i would no longer reccomend ceramic as i was told they can get micro cracks and have removed them out of my system
please note i have put this up in good faith and will not beheld responsible for any damage you do to your deck ,just the improvements they will bring ,i am going to try the Delrin Ball in the MIchell , and report back in a month's time ,
keep smiling every day even if some one upsets you

Torlon is used in the following
•Chemical Resistant
•Creep Resistant
•Ductile
•Fatigue Resistant
•Flame Retardant
•Good Electrical Properties
•High Heat Resistance
•High Temperature Strength
•Low Temperature Toughness
•Ultra High Impact Resistance
•Wear Resistant
Uses
•Aircraft Applications
•Automotive Applications
•Bushings
Connectors
Electrical Parts
•Electrical/Electronic Applications
•Fasteners
•Film
•Machine/Mechanical Parts
•Oil/Gas Applications
•Semiconductor Molding Compounds
•Thrust Washer
RoHS Compliance
•RoHS Compliant
these are High Grade Bearing balls that are with in a tolerance of .002 mm they contain PTFE but the PTFE ones are 100% ptfe and are the same grade as the Torlon and Delrin ,

[alphaGT]

I've got some styrene sheets in many thicknesses, from 0.010" to 0.080" Just about every hundredth. Very easy to cut, sand and shape, I may experiment with a damper made from it. Something else I've wanted to experiment with is the "Soundsmith EZ Mount Headshell Mounting Kit", https://www.musicdirect.com/analog-accessories/soundsmith-ez-mount-headshell-kit
It's not too expensive, but allows you to experiment with different materials and weights at the headshell. Brass, steel and nylon, and aluminum I think? One could buy small screws from eBay made from different stuff, and conduct your own experiment, but the shipping would probably bring you near the cost of this kit anyway.

As far as replacing the main bearing, the worst case I can imagine is it would eat up the bearing. So no big deal, if that happens just put the steel bearing back in. I imagine the Delrin is pretty tough stuff. And ceramic is super hard, as long as you don't hit it with a hammer? Seems pretty safe to me.


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[gwernaffield]

Hi i think the easy way out of that use the longer Nylon bolts and use several nuts to make the head on the nylon bolt higher and less weight , so it would only cost abou $4 off ebay ,
and if one snaps just replace with another ,the other way out is to make the damper with 2 slots that carry on to one end so you can do a fast chage with out fear of damage to the cartridge ,by sliding what ever you decide to use for the damper into place with out the need of taking the cartridge off ,the other thing you can look for is computer case thumb screws which go from m2.5 to m6 on ebay

Peter Ledermann of Sound-Smith has said that nylon screws can help reduce resonances that contribute to sibilance

properties of delryn/acetal Strong and stiff
• Excellent machinability
• Good dimensional stability
• Low moisture absorption
• Excellent wear properties in both wet and dry environments
• Low friction
• Good chemical resistance

Product Applications
• Bearings and bushings
• Pump and valve parts
• Manifolds
• Gears
• Jigs and fixtures
• Packaging machinery parts
• Food processing machinery parts
• Electrical components
Torlon is used in the following
•Chemical Resistant
•Creep Resistant
•Ductile
•Fatigue Resistant
•Flame Retardant
•Good Electrical Properties
•High Heat Resistance
•High Temperature Strength
•Low Temperature Toughness
•Ultra High Impact Resistance
•Wear Resistant
Uses
•Aircraft Applications
•Automotive Applications
•Bushings
Connectors
Electrical Parts
•Electrical/Electronic Applications
•Fasteners
•Film
•Machine/Mechanical Parts
•Oil/Gas Applications
•Semiconductor Molding Compounds
•Thrust Washer
RoHS Compliance
•RoHS Compliant
these are High Grade Bearing balls that are with in a tolerance of .002 mm they contain PTFE but the PTFE ones are 100% ptfe and are the same grade as the Torlon and Delrin ,

[alphaGT]

Hi i thing the easy way out of that use the longer Nylon bolts and use several nuts to make the head on the nylon bolt higher and less weight , so it would only cost abou $4 off ebay ,
and if one snaps just replace with another ,the other way out is to make the damper with 2 slots that carry on to one end so you can do a fast chage with out fear of damage to the cartridge ,by sliding what ever you decide to use for the damper into place with out the need of taking the cartridge off ,the other thing you can look for is computer case thumb screws which go from m2.5 to m6 on ebay

Peter Ledermann of Sound-Smith has said that nylon screws can help reduce resonances that contribute to sibilance

properties of delryn/acetal Strong and stiff
• Excellent machinability
• Good dimensional stability
• Low moisture absorption
• Excellent wear properties in both wet and dry environments
• Low friction
• Good chemical resistance

Product Applications
• Bearings and bushings
• Pump and valve parts
• Manifolds
• Gears
• Jigs and fixtures
• Packaging machinery parts
• Food processing machinery parts
• Electrical components

I found a source for Delryn and Teflon material, from a wood working site actually. For making router table jigs and saw fences. Rockwell Inc., affordable! But it's also amazing what one can find on eBay, nylon screws in any shape you can imagine! The trick is knowing how to do a proper search. The styrene sheets I've got where made for modeling . So easily shaped and worked, and glued, into anything you want, one could make a whole turntable out of it if they wanted! But it is softer than Delryn. It would not Suffice for any bearing surface.

I've been looking into replacing many aluminum parts with brass. I replaced the foot cups with brass and made a noticeable improvement in bass solidity. I see a few threaded parts on my tonearm that I could find brass screws to replace. But I still want to try your Delryn ball bearing in the main bearing! As soon as I get some other projects out of the way, I'll let you know how that goes.


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[gwernaffield]

Hi Russel , i hope you manage too ,it realy does work , I am trying to find some torlon bearing balls, size 7/32 but i can only find the 6mm ones which i am going to try , if any one can help please let me know , as i have been told to try them instead of Delrin ones
cheers peter

update i have been running the delrin ball now for 2 weeks and have no problems , i am still waiting on the torlon 6mm to arrive, i can get some 7/32 but the cost is very high at £1. per ball, so it has put me off trying to buy the correct size for now, as i dont want a lot left in the draw ,

[gwernaffield]

Hi I have now found a supplier of all plastic balls, 7 /32 are 39p plus vat , but postage is £7.70 next day or £3.50 1st clast
PTFE solid ball is 83p plus vat and the postage, i have , 3 x 6mm and 6torlon 7/32 spare , hi i have now got some PTFE 7/32 which are £1.50 each , whch is what i paid , i have run a ptfe ball for the past 10hrs solid and no wear to the ball , at all , just pure music out of the Michell , as it now does not have a steel ball grinding on a steel shaft , but a friction resistant ball which is quieter than the steel ball that must have tranfairred sound waves through out the deck , if you want to try just drop me a email and pay the cost that is not a dealer price , but is a price what i have paid , peter
suppliers of the bearing balls below , Torlon
®
4301 extruded PAI is primarily used for wear and friction parts. It offers a very low expansion rate, low coefficient of friction and exhibits little or no slip-
stick in use. Torlon
®
4301's flexural modulus of 1,000,000 psi is higher than most other advanced engineering plastics. This grade excels in severe service wear
applications such as non- lubricated bearings, seals, bearing cages and reciprocating compressor partsthese are a precision Ball used in medical applications , etc ,


7/32” diameter Torlon @ £0.39 each, ex works – stock item.
7/32 diameter PTFE @£0.83 each .ex works -stock item
Postage @ £3.50
Pricing excl. VAT

[mad-moon]

Further to the Delrin ball staying in....On Peter's recommendation...I have now put in a Torlon bearing...(sourced and supplied by Peter)..which is a higher grade harder more durable plastic ball as my main bearing....The sound has lifted again, incredible as it may sound...my tt has never sounded better...I'm waiting of a ptfe ball coming from Peter...to try out...which I'm looking forward to...Thanks Peter for all your help and advice...and for supplying me the bearings...top man...cheeerz Peter....Alan...




Excellent post....I'm using a logic DM101 turntable...I've purchased the Delrin balls and the ceramic ones too...I've got a sheet of teflon1.5mm thick...and also ordered the nylon nuts and screws for the cartridge..(Goldring Eroica LX)...I've replaced the main bearing with one of the Delrin Balls...what a difference...very little noise now and all I here is the music...I'm going to cut out a damper for the cart tomorrow and fix the cart on with nylon nuts and screws...it can only get better..Don't think I'll even bother with the ceramic ball bearings.....the Delrin ball is staying where it is....Excellent tweaks Peter..many thanks...

P.S....anyone with a Logic DM101...the bearing is 6mm..






I got mine here x5 for £2.40..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEARING-OPTIONS-DELRIN-SOLID-PLASTIC-BALLS/201117934008?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=500287904262&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[gwernaffield]

PTFE ball now up and running , and wow , that is all i can say , i have sent some madmoon , vintageaxman , and a couple of others i have some spare ones if any one wants to try this , NO harm has been
done to any TT during the little tweaks , and every Tweak can be returned to factory spec ,if you dont like them but i would reccomend the ZX1 extra lube and the PTFE ball ,

peter

[alphaGT]

So glad to hear of your improvements! And the great effect they e had.


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[gwernaffield]

i am using this with the oil ZX1 extra lube , it is a friction reducer
ZX1 C76 Microlube - 35ml - Motorsport / Race /R/C Cars / MTB / Power Tools
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZX1-C76-Microlube-35ml-Motorsport-Race-R-C-Cars-MTB-Power-Tools-/371167816870?hash=item566b536ca6:g:sgUAAOSwk5FU0XJ o

but only use this if you can adjust the speed or it will sound like micky mouse has his tail caught in the vice, i am not sure if you can remove it as it bonds to the metal parts , use at your own disgression
as it is very slippy , and i will not be held responsible if you cannot remove it ,i use it in the main bearing, along with the michell oil at 50% but first put some in the body of the bearing and reinstall the thrust ball and then put some on the shaft making sure it is all covered , reassemble the bearing , reassamble the platter back on the top of the bearing , give it a spin with out the belts on
leve it untill it stops and then put the belt back or in my case belts ,use a strobe to re time the speed with the NC power pack and that is that .

i have always used the below C76 version and not the version for the cars
C76 ZX1 Microlube Pin Oiler is more viscous lubricant packaged with a fine needle applicator ideal for reaching small areas where a trigger spray is unsuitable.

Use C76 ZX1 Microlube Pin Oiler for Control cables, Gun mechanisms, Radio controlled and scaled models, Fishing tackle, Racing & Motorbikes, Hand tools, Locks etc… An absolute must have for any tool box.

Available in 35ml bottle with needle applicator

DON'T USE CERAMIC BEARING BALLS IN YOUR TT AS THEY CRACK OVER TIME , THE SILICONE NITRIDE BLACK BALL WAS TRIED IN GERMANY BY A RESPECTED COMPANY AND THEY FOUND OUT THEY START TO MICRO CRACK Black in colour , I AM not sure about the zink zro2 oxide , and the aluminium oxide a1203 , both are white in colour , but i have stopped using them they do make a diffrence but if they break they will distroy the bearing shaft ,

[mad-moon]

Can't believe it..but its happened...The teflon ball has stomped on the torlon ball.....what a big improvement....even quieter now...it's a real pleasure...the only noise I would say I have now is e very very slight record surface noise if I listen hard.....which with a low output cartridge is exceptionally good...the bass is more extended yet tighter....the mids and highs are at the most natural I've heard them in my system...I can hear the tracks run out to the very last note and the micro dynamics are superb...I cannot believe a 6mm ball is giving me these improvements....I hope I get longevity from the teflon ball...as it really is the best to date...thanks again Peter....you've came up trumps again....Alan....

P.S. folks....I've adopted these tweaks from Peter for my Logic dm101 turntable...the Teflon bearing....the Zx1 superlube and the teflon damper for my Goldring EroicaLX cartridge...The improvements are incredible...mad-moon

[gwernaffield]

Hi Alan all good stuff , so far over a 1000 views , if any one wants a bearing ball , please drop me a line , you only pay what i have paid and make your own mind up ,
also one other thing you can do is put some more spacers under the Arm Board , you can buy them of eBay for penny's put some blue tack under one end and push them in , is seems to work better with the SME arms ,
and is cheap to do , just look under nylon spacers ,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Nylon-Plastic-SPACERS-Standoff-Washer-M3-M4-M5-M6-M8-M10-or-M13-12-PACK-/331684716193?var=540809792209&hash=item4d39f31ea1:m:m83Kn_qgDKqTDOiMEmnM_Tw

Well after 3 months of running diffrent balls no pun intended , the PTFE one finaly got a flat on the bottom, but kept on running , i have over 1kg in weight on top of the platter ,
i am still using the PTFE as it is the softer if all of them ,the hardest is the torlon , but i pefair the sound of the PTFE and the thought that no damage can be done if it wears down , un like the ceramic versions that are harder if they fail it is a new bearing ,
just put a 6mm 1.5mm disc of ptfe on the end of the bearing shaft to see if that helps the ptfe ball , there is no surface noise , at all , if it means i have to change it every s 6 months i will
for those of you who are using ceramic bearings the higher the Grade number the poorer the Ball in roundness and surface finish and size , and also the lower the price , the higher price ones will be grade 10 in aluminum oxide, grade 3 in silicon , and grade 3 in zinc oxide bearing ball you can buy grade 5 on eBay, but not in aluminium oxide ,
all the engeering plastic Balls are grade 1 the best you can buy as far as i no ,

just made a Thrust plate out of ptfe it is held in place with a very small about of blutac , so far it has run and no damage to the bearing of the ball , as it is only point loaded , and kept in place with the ball , no noise in back ground at all through the record ,
it is a sacrificial part that can be changed every year if needed, 1,5mm thick 8 mm dia with a corner cut off ,so the off set hole will drain the oil which is still working fine i am waiting on some delrin sheet to arrive ,that is used as an upgrade to the technics thrust pad ,sl1210 ,

http://www.smbbearings.com/productpdfs/ceramic-bearing-selection-guide.pdf noisey ceramic

[gwernaffield]

Hi All
well i have kept the following the Delrin in the tower balls they work and stop any vibration from them , use a little silicone grease on the ball and a mean a little , , or the dam thing will not go together as it will act like a piston and you will have to try very hard to get it back down , the caps for the towers still have the sound dead 1mm thick stuff in and a 1mm 'o' ring around the base to stop any ringing from that cost about 50p
then the decision over the ball has not been made , i have the main contenders , the Torlon great but it may micro crack , so i have to double check , the Delrin sounds too much like steel , so that is out ,
the ptfe was great but was warn away too fast , that left the Ceramic versions , all i have been told can micro crack , all i have to try , also a secret one that has a tighter grade than all of the balls tried so far
Then that left the different spacers, the Michell decoupling kit , 3 Delrin spacers with 'O-rings and bolts built in , replace the bolts supplied with nylon and stuff a bit of rubber under the existing and that will cost £3
That will give the upgrade , for those who want the GP up grade , go on ebay pic a acrylic vendor , measure the spacers you have below the arm board you have now , if it is a rega it will be around 10mm, i think Trent plastics will do it for you as a special order it is a 114 dia meter ring with a 89 mm hole , it should cost no more than £15 -£20 , buy the neo rubber 1mm thick , when it arrives , remove the arm board and arm off the arm board
you will see a sticker saying front ,carefully clamp the rubber and the ring and the arm board all together and drill the 3 x 5 mm holes ,
remove the clamp and cut the rubber to shape , and put the whole lot back on the deck i used 3 nylon bolts as the acrylic and the rubber together may be heavy and may make it more than the 1 kg limit and over balance the deck causing the belt to come off or give noise, or may tilt toward the arm ,
total cost for solid ebay spacer is £20-£22 , with rubber and nylon 606 bolts , and not the £120 for the GP version
as for the main bearing i cannot help you with that i have experimented with the PTFE as a Thrust plate and it works but it is up to you if you want to try that , the problem is that the top of the bearing is shaped like a bell the ball sits in, that and is point loaded on the shaft below , i am told that the ball does not move , it only moves on the point below ,but the high frequency must travel up the centre into the vinyl into the cartridge
and out to your ears, when i got it correct the sound stage frightened the living daylights out of me, how good it could be, and how sad it was ,
i so if you want to try the PTFE plate try it but like all of this stuff it is up to you , and not me , some have worked to be great and some has been utter crap , so there we go honesty which is needed in HIFI ,
if you Must chage the clamp to the ORBE Version ,go on Ebay and Buy 2 3/8 BSF HALF NUTS , these can be locked onto the shaft , useing 2 spanners and cover the brass part of the bearing with duct tape hold that is some grips do not over tighten or throw it in the bin , the top part will un screw easy with the 2 3/8 bsf nuts locked into place , unscrew and then replace with the new top using the same 3/8 bsf nuts , .re install the bearing and oil , etc , keep the old calmp and the top shaft and the 2 nuts , if you now want to sell it you can as it will not be damaged , or you can replace it back onto the deck and sell the orbe one and get some CASH back

[alphaGT]

That's some excellent research Peter, you've left no stone unturned in your search for a better bearing! I think your ideas will actually work better on a simpler bearing? If it were a simple ball bearing down a hole with a flat ended shaft standing on it, then you wouldn't experience the odd wear you're getting. But the PTFE thrust plates are a great work around for your situation. Inventive thinking!

And if you are using a tonearm without a VTA adjustment, shimming it up shouldn't be all that difficult? I've seen some sheets of Teflon in the wood working catalog, to make slick surfaces for router tables, etc. cutting out a layer to raise the arm by tracing the base onto it, cutting it out with a coping saw or jig saw, even sharp scissors if its thin enough. And may help deaden the vibrations between the table and the arm as well as your bearings? Inspirational work Peter, seems like you've covered all the bases!


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[gwernaffield]

well i have had the bearing top remade in delrin , and up will be and running all night for too days to see if it falls a part but so far it is very quite not that the michell bearing is not quiet but it should help with any vibration from the ball on top of the shaft , the shft has been altered to suite the material and is a composite of diffrent materials now , i will not put it all on here, it is spot on below is the first stage and then somethig else is added and the ball is change and some thing else is added , all sectret crap , only one like this , so that is why the Bloke of ebay who machined it done a great job ,
, no static at all on the record , using a oyaide 780 grm weight , instead of clamp , but i can use the clap if needed , so now all the testing happens ,

[gwernaffield]

Update the arm spacer is £ 29 for 2 or £20 for one from wholesaleplastics off ebay , due to the thickness for SME. the one for the rega is cheaper and is 10mm thick ,the sme one is 12mm , add the 1.5 mm rubber ring and it will bring it up to the required height , the same as Gert's one but £100 cheaper , as they have to be ordered as 2 at a time to keep the cost down ,
The Delrin bearing top is running great no problems and no noise into the platter , all you hear is what is on the vinyl with no added bits off the turntable, ( i still use the 780grm clamp not the clap as above LOL i must get better glasses, ) the bearing top has cleared all the music up , i need someone who lives near mold to call and listen to the deck, it is easy to fool yourself that it sounds better but only someone else can say it is crap or better after spending money out ,

[gwernaffield]

size of the diameter of the rings , 114mm with a 89- 85 mm hole , if you go any smaller on the it will be too heavy as the weight limit for an arm and board is 1kg according to michell , but you can go to 1.1max ,

[mad-moon]

The logic dm101 is now out of service and will be going up for sale shortly....I've invested In a Gyrodec SE...peter has sent me the balls for the towers and the main bearing which I will be trying out shortly.....first thing I've done is put in the acrylic spacer Peter has just sent me....makes a big difference....spacer..rubber washer and nylon bolts hold the tonearm board/tonearm to the tt...which totally decouples any metal to metal contact between arm and table....the picture shows steel bolts...as at first I couldn't get the nylon bolts in...they were too tight to screw right down...however...I've run a bolt up and down the threads with superlube and I now have the nylon bolts holding it all to the table

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4466/37575728330_09a77412bf_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ZfrqV1)309 SPACER (https://flic.kr/p/ZfrqV1) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

And below with images of the nylon bolts in place

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4445/37791957616_6ef0708854_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ZzxEm9)SME NYLON (https://flic.kr/p/ZzxEm9) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4471/37791998296_0bd5bd4cba_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ZzxSrw)SME NYLON 2 (https://flic.kr/p/ZzxSrw) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

I'd just like to add....as with all these inexpensive tweaks and upgrades/improvements....everything can be put back to a stock Gyrodec....should you feel the need....

[struth]

Lovely bit of engineering that arm.

[gwernaffield]

well just to prove i practice what i preach here is another 309 on a carbon fiber arm board just getting fitted with the home made spacer , the twin to mad moon's 309 bought off here and has been modified by sme yesterday and returned to day great service

[struth]

http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=21648&d=1508627577

looks good at that angle

[gwernaffield]

the arm board is a solid 22mm thick piece of carbon fiber and is roughly 120mm x 120mm square when it arrived from the eu , i have uploaded pictures to prove it as it is not a piece of wood with a vinyl sticker on , it has 5 coats of clear and polished , the rack you see in the other picture was made by wilson b and has CF legs but the shelf that looks like CF is glass covered with vinyl , i did not put the CF armboard up as a cheap up grade as the block is expensive before the work was done,

[struth]

A nice thick chunk Peter. Very good, I like CF

[gwernaffield]

hi grant it is a spare one , which will be for sale, as a Carbonfibre Balnk ,

[struth]

i'd do same to it as first and sell it as an upgrade ready made for an arm. make yourself a few bob.:eyebrows:

[gwernaffield]

Hi all i thought i had come to the end of upgrades for the deck in the cheap parts, how ever at the weekend i could hear a noise from the motor pod after fitting a new belt , this was because the belt can no longer move the pod due to the base being made bigger , i opened the top of the motor pod ,undo the single bolt , to find the motor is sitting in mid air , in a rubber bush ,
it is allowed to move , so when you put a new belt on the motor can move enough to catch the pully on top of the housing , i looked a round for some thing i had to try and stop this ,
i found a New Cistern Doughnut seal made of foam that squashes to shape , so i cut it to fit the inner diameter and then cut it in half thickness wise , as i wanted it to over lap the top of the motor so it would seal against the top of the motor pod ,
i turned it upside down and then inserted the other half to support the bottom of the motor , you think is would not work , well i was in for a hell of a surprise , it has cleaned the deck up so much i can now hear the voicing on DOSTOM very clear and the bass has been extended , this fix is about £2 and would reccommed it to all gyro owners , beleave me it works very well ,
the Bog fix uses the seal that normaly goes between the cistern and the bowl ,not the rubber version but the foam version, i dont no why it works but boy it does,

[gwernaffield]

Hi all their are several diffrent types of these bog seals 21870 this is the one with a step inside , i have just fitted this to the bottom ,of the motor and pushed the
lot back into the tube ,it is atight fit , you have to cut 10-15mm out of the seal , to allow for the difference in diameter , the motor is now held by the step and the sides , the material is like a foam rubber , and not like the gray one which is a foam,all i can say for the cost it is very vey good with the depth of the bass,etc ,

[mad-moon]

This has to be the best tweak to date...using the toilet cistern stepped rubber ring x 2....The top one...I had to cut pieces off in gradual stages...and made it a real tight fit...using a bit silicon grease to get the motor to slide in from the top....The bottom one...I took approx. 2mm off the stepped piece so it fits snugly over the motor...set it all back up and it's just fabulous....crisp, clear, airy...superb bass extension...everything is faster and tighter...vocals are forward and sweet....very nice indeed

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4544/38288842821_6e5882df83_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/21ksk1r)ring 1 (https://flic.kr/p/21ksk1r) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4580/38257136502_4b7941fd57_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/21hDPPL)ring 2 2mm cutoff (https://flic.kr/p/21hDPPL) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4562/26513367849_9abc73909d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GoTWxT)ring 2 fitted (https://flic.kr/p/GoTWxT) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

[gwernaffield]

Hi alan ,yep it is the best tweak for £1.89p i was shocked how good the gyro can be now i think it will see an orbe off , it is one sweet Turntable ,as you no their are loads of diffrent types of the bog seals,
hence you can now tune the deck to your own taste , due to the diffrent materials used in the diffrent seals, the first i used was the gray foam type, whoosh it was the best i have every heard a gyro , now i have the same one as you but i did not cut it in half length ways , i cut 10mm off and fitted to the bottom , then i have used the gray foam one at the very top, i have added a home made flat washer to the base where the tube screws to the base , there is an under cut so the bas will sit flat , so a 1mm rubber home made flat washer should make no diffrence to the height of the pulley ,
all in all i was blown away with the Bog standard ant-vibration Motor Fix at £1.89p LOL

[gwernaffield]

Belt leveling tool , well i looked at the belt after doing all the mods , and getting the michell bounce correct and noticed the belt was no longer level , this would give vibration in the belt and cause it to twist ,
i came up with a small tool using a sprit level and a piece of 1.5 mm card and then aluminium , to which it fits into the pully and then hold it against the drive slot now the belt is level and runing correctly and now extra vibration , unlinke the ORBE you have you to get the belt level as it runs in the grove on the platter where as teh orbe uses aflat surface , i think the gyro platter grove is left over from when the motor was fixed to the chassie , and has never been updated ,

[gwernaffield]

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Hi this is where i am up to with the odyssey deck with all the tweaks, that are hidden, the suspension towers have Delrin bearing balls, the arm board is carbon fibre , the top of the bearing is Delrin with a ceramic ball , there is a Perspex spacer under the Carbon fibre arm board with two rubber spacers 1,5mm thick , the arm was added to by SME with the FD1V added and the rear weight adjusters off the sme v , the plinth is now a whopping 44mm thick , the feet where removed and ISO feet fitted with delrin spacers , but they are getting changed for a 6mm homemade spider , with 2mm rubber decoupling spider and then laminated together , a new foot was made for the motor tube the original was too small and kept moving , also need to be made thicker due to the belt needing to be lined up , the base is not yet completed , with other options on the table , the trick with the support for the motor £1.89 toilet doughnut , i am not sure if anything else I need to do , I hope you try some of the cheap upgrades , and leave feedback just like Mad –Moon , please note everything is up to your selves if you want to do these , I just wanted to show how a gyro deck can beat the pants off more expensive decks ,without losing your wallet ,https://6anzmq-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4mlOwSuyEOIgXPKeTlOI0rEKFiPMVzZaCtWBuLB0vzZCDCyK-OF3pfqAc4yMY2hhGZwWwRBs9iC3FVm3qvHt89HggIk9ozRe7JA AR76WYdVGYhk0o2uLW8ZjPWnzwMnBt7pssEUzCButNBmnMCZwg V-1RXoelf1S784rm343maQ1UNTaFwVCjF5ZRLWBlrjyReyBKuWA1 GPHSrnh7GAeS9lQ?width=660&height=495&cropmode=nonehttps://5anzmq-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4m1S06JNVVDJ-SA3Av7rh1McSFZG7uPaN5P4f60z7JBbJkZF19INSrvS6YrGEeC Xhu3k5fogEniUTjEazsiCpXRXrO3_pfZwn6BFJlpUpI45Kwgoy 2IKtJt2vLaOHbb0mwkYzZxI4EjSb8bEyB73ubZIfUK2oAbLV8s i-mVSr8nZDtZPJtzVIyd6yGLaHz7zQrGzarc88w5LgUGXIRrBqIr w?width=800&height=600&cropmode=nonehttps://6knzmq-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4m9dQcmI4sVU4N52AtHBC63CpAXRFy76IVYIjCV6CXNyK8oVz gU5XVtWqFk8SrvaCKLIoM2R4T9lU8DGJGafY-UArukgbCR5i4O-ftnmHw6TldoFpgZqnjPRnZmrcdTZvGHZMQcR44Ab-OTYFWoL8o0Azaqm54nscWsgOwL8phobQsSqgKuEJw6vFZ7INgt OVZT3GDyNpfAsRx3u3D8FTjzg?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none
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Ans now for the base to get reinvented , but with michell parts , laminated base with 6mm and 2mm rubber under support , base is now 32mm thick , the clear and the black spider are a total of 22mm thick , it is bolted together with the 3 grub screws , the spiders came from an orbe se that has been converted to a full orbe , and the original odyssey one , alli have to do is to deside if i want to kepp the very bottom one as the lid will not longer fit and the pulley is too low againhttps://6qmodg-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4mJxt8eNlVv-lIujW4z1rNJ8faySFouz8W4gaYlrGKS1c-tQgwQwXmaqrPAouu_ZHbGEvlExBrhH_RtcjE7rrZBHKRlAXULz Vu5jpkHeP9xr_ZcW84zy4sdwGtDxrL9O4QrDb1g1F5HSDh_GFT jPoqHfvunwRwoTMCBOFlM-yoBBWX45krJdIbsxOAaxuxXBag8VJy7Jd7lMvXD7rQ4IMfXQ?w idth=4000&height=3000&cropmode=none

[gwernaffield]

and here is the last pictures as it is back in the box and that is the end , well for now the main spider is now 24mm thick and the base is the same https://56m9sa-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4mMpieJVcEplBezmMJLaik-gLfMHB8izRGSpbxB-otBnzNvu1gk_lT4VUANKuKHHlBKR_iDIe6B-ZWyXHzqWyI7_kU331KO5RpAC00HztbgOU_IMtgw3vtIg4doWp0 dCaw63irkd4XNafy1zJJKviz6T0WGIGohbc_aGzYPDo034S3dh tusGL5uOKnjdIkAyoyHQWGuW02LQ79vZGdoCuWNA?width=100 0&height=750&cropmode=none
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https://5qm9sa-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4mKufGAQ9kZWvZRI1l2JCui4b-AgeP5zT9r8PAktnNazyuQ5iFRAeTOWoGu0rRniztum3x_7uBHU 8RyItiXYVxgjZb9UH7SCgiR3ELvo2Gf34c7vBk3UwPu--dBRnG5vhFaKTtLljGWbb1NrigIS13wyERm798p-J4TyHJXhSbJ7BiLiyC9e2adGB48-LbY88GaCt4VtemjhlnWb0bX_uMIw?width=1000&height=750&cropmode=none

if you are going to make a spider for the gyro you will have to make a spacer the same thickness so the belt will run properly to go under the motor foot , , it is well worth doing ,a piece of 350x350 x12 mm perspex is needed (use the off cut for the spacer )
use the one off the gyro ,mark around it ,bandsaw it out (jigsaw) polish the edges and flame polish to finish , drill the 3holes for the feet using the original gyro spider as a guide , , stick it together with double sided tape and then you have a laminated gyro base, no need to drill and tap the holes for the suspension in the one you have made, as they are in the orginal one ,
cheers
peter

[gwernaffield]

Hi i forgot to add buy some small spike protectors the ones with the rubber underneath , for about £12 or buy some 1.5mm rubber sheet , £2.50p cut out some pads and place them under the feet to stop the gyro /orbe from moving around , do not get thicker ,
special plastic feet will raise the platter ,the belt will not run properly on a gyro you will have to relevel everything, I use spike protectors which have been drilled through the centre so only the rubber on the bottom of them stop the deck from moving , you can just about get away with 1.5,
I like the trick with the spike protectors that have been drilled out the rubber on them stops the deck from moving ,but the foot sits in spike protector ,

[walpurgis]

I don't get this. Spikes are for coupling to a hard surface beneath the deck. Rubber is for decoupling, so why use spikes? Maybe I've misunderstood the above description? :scratch:

[gwernaffield]

Hi You are correct , but in this case the spike protectors have been drilled through so the so of the foot can then go through to the rubber underneith so it looks better than a piece of rubber which then stops the deck from moving if you left them as spike protectors on a gyro the belt will be out of alignment with the platter , but not on an orbe as that does not have Drive Grooves Like the platter on a gyro , so you could just buy 3 small spike protectors £13 for the ORBE but male sure they have the rubber under neath them and not green felt ,
https://6am9sa-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4mHUSITxsa7Wn2FXaicGkM_RHDj_eoInRLtVHV_HE3JQ1_yBh iCMDTmltjDieD_hRBQ3GPJRMD9PKRFzCFNd3wNsewcoauZKVpK apw0uihKgmXUKaqJB0mvX7mXL2xErWsXs7P_q_AczhOusGp8vC n7RnFXOEMkvR4DpR7a8wJycei0HhBUJ31cCnXQOxkVev8xdeIV tsvHXtXY5ukHoUi9Q?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none,https://7km9sa-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4mtN-fjNxRhYNZdRKLyWkNMd_vn7W5qvM2WBUgiHg_8sFujtMkOQKuQ 7ECWq7WEUDuucVF3wvepcfhfpv_TW-FkVItnWcv0ry2TCq7d08hD7mJg1f19rvNjN356LKXuW8AhQMiF gycyGYYU9eB4jlYyL5DnxWnew3Mxn6dTGiEJ-1u-AO2Nzpnj7pkwckoGWwXi6YWnLD4wPb23aj7NG4r5Q?width=66 0&height=495&cropmode=none
https://66m9sa-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4mZ9NR0SRJgTw-XPtchgGmdunD3eAquLa9TED-ccxYNmgmj5i1fUtQrlHE8fsixGEUJuUqt52-cBjt7GGYZHD3xQ2JYmlCb4dcMhHdHQoo4DA3x9NloIU-jbrXz0T3QTEI85rwzQdDW-xSdZwch9Wvi6P3yYbJGbciVYoNp4Z2tzak0GhqvH4L3p9J_aZq YfXVQgV9f9eLvl4fSw2zlPQdMA?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none


it is better than adding plastic feet or you can just buy 1.5mm rubber to stop the deck from moving ,

i hope this helps

[gwernaffield]

so now the deck is decoupled ,held by the friction off the rubber and did not cost £20+ pounds to do , or just use a piece of rubber 1mm-1.5mm. at £2.50 .i think it looks better than just rubber , it is also decoupled in the following ways , the spiders have 1mm gasket made to decouple them , and the feet have 2mm O-rings in the grove cut by Michell ,
The arm board sits on a rubber gasket then the plastic spacer and a rubber gasket , the bolts used to hold the arm board on are nylon , and the bolts used to keep the bottom spiders and feet are nylon, The bolts in the head shell are nylon , The arm uses 4 o-rings in the base part ,and 2 o-rings in the bridge part and 2 x .5mm gaskets to the bottom of the bridge , now that is decoupled as well,
so i cannot think of anything else to add , that would be cheap to do ,
all the above can be done without remaking the entire chasee ,somehow adding weight to the gyro platter and keeping the looks , but not to drill , change the deck in any way , all the Mods done do not need a lot of money , and don’t require you to drill or add plastic padding ,sand, etc , they all work ,

The only ones that will cost a lot of money will be the making of a new foot for the motor to make the motor higher to take the spiders,
The arm board made of carbon fibre £120
Enjoy

[gwernaffield]

motor is now complete with all the mods , now weighs in at 2.93kg ,https://5qlyjq-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4m1aZJsHQOMCKiLSclU4eYEYwHhsf3JawrR_1DQV9RG3L_v0t UpdDsVcl4r6VBb0ZpykPTs7hNWO-zA3-X0k2htQvHgEksP0RNEpUbU_NBeMjrcsQnFxxAY-cHN89Jt1APWKcTLnBKZD3_eI0DEdu2H2oeTmNgOTENqKXezorv hfUNo1l_63afn5S8dCegGd4GaMWijC3FpIiX_rxrmeWVTw?wid th=256&height=192&cropmode=none
https://66lyjq-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4m-UFrIHvkiIuiT0dwpjROIXKNb6bWchCMwQLtW9Zm-Q4N0sBOBqh5ru8PJLZY3ZRrPJbFWMpdyfZ0jRj0LxYT6I8XDjd f_laaCjHcWc1T-t7QRhHOB-gaBZq4awVzb77ovtWad58Dt0Zj_xf5yKEaJHfxZQU8TCPuevMC x0RAVebo0GC3B6vPq8HVqFoVD2B_padrWyKpQF60343g2ywWmw ?width=256&height=192&cropmode=none

the deck has 4 spiders and a base , the base is about 36mm thick now with the 2 spiders added , and the main spider is 24mm thick ,laminated and bolted to gether and decoupled from the 36mm base

[gwernaffield]

Hi All the spiders are all off a orbe, if you try this you would need to make the base of the motor thicker or get a spacer made to fit the bottom of the motor pod to keep the correct belt height ,

[mad-moon]

DIY TT MOTOR PLINTH : Take an old big magnet kef b200 speaker

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4535/39029709761_c61ac88691_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/22sVsWn)GYRO 1 (https://flic.kr/p/22sVsWn) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

Remove the magnet

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4635/38993221912_a428f73f3a_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/22pGsnw)GYRO 2 (https://flic.kr/p/22pGsnw) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4647/25158823688_bb52c00de3_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EkcxLd)GYRO 3 (https://flic.kr/p/EkcxLd) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

use one of the long screws to push the top plate off

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4541/25158823458_b2cf9fc2ba_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EkcxGf)GYRO 4 (https://flic.kr/p/EkcxGf) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

clean up the plate with 800 wet and dry paper

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4552/25158823308_7e72cabeca_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EkcxDE)GYRO 5 (https://flic.kr/p/EkcxDE) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

polish the plate and adhere some rubber feet on the bottom

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4527/38993222152_21d8ec2986_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/22pGsrE)GYRO 6 (https://flic.kr/p/22pGsrE) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

and voila..you have a plinth..(which just happens to be the exact size of the motor housing) to raise the motor to the correct height..the belt now running on the second groove of the platter

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4636/38993221722_9871076879_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/22pGsjf)GYRO 7 (https://flic.kr/p/22pGsjf) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

[Gazjam]

Hardcore!

[gwernaffield]

add some weight to the inside of the tube , to stop it moving , i think there is about 30mm gap or more before the motor will touch , that will add the weight to stop the motor moving , any thing heavy will do , make sure the motor tube is central to the chasse , i like the fix , also check the bounce , if it is incorrect you are proabley touching the motor tube ,also add the support with the doughnut or pipe insulation or anything that can suport the motor properly , as michell are trying to find a way to do this , Foam pipe insulation has been intalled by another member ,
also one of the reasons the belt may be out of alignment is the bounce you have to get , orginaly the motor was screwed to the chasse the belt i think would of beed in the correct position ,
then it was put into the motor pod , this means unless you are spot on with the set up the belt will always be out of alignment , due to the way you have to level and get the bounce correct , it is not a problem on the ORBE due to the ORBE's platter design (no Groves for the belt ) hence the great difference when fitted to the gyro to make the gorbe, if you can get the belt to run correctly their is no need for the upgrade , hence the need for some adjustment on the motor base, or add spacers , the reason i needed the extra was the deck is a Odyssey 2004 , which is part Orbe , i.e base , chasse, and then gyro , platter , motor , bearing , it had one spider and a base , i had problems keeping the belt on due to the design , so i just went a bit further ,and added 3 more spiders and the base , so now it has a base that is 36mm thick , and the top spider is 24mm, the motor had the spacers made by a friend , at mates rates,
i have looked at several gyros and the belt always seems not level , this must have an effect on the belt noise that must be transmitted into the platter , Mad MOON has found a way to do this with out spending a fortune if you have an old speaker try it, it will make a difference,
:santa:

[gwernaffield]

https://66lyjq-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4m-UFrIHvkiIuiT0dwpjROIXKNb6bWchCMwQLtW9Zm-Q4N0sBOBqh5ru8PJLZY3ZRrPJbFWMpdyfZ0jRj0LxYT6I8XDjd f_laaCjHcWc1T-t7QRhHOB-gaBZq4awVzb77ovtWad58Dt0Zj_xf5yKEaJHfxZQU8TCPuevMC x0RAVebo0GC3B6vPq8HVqFoVD2B_padrWyKpQF60343g2ywWmw ?width=1000&height=750&cropmode=none


the motor pod has been altered with a new foot and a spacer to give a weight of about 3kg ,
there are 2 spiders below the normal plinth ?base with decoupled delrin spacers and the spiders have been decoupled by 1.5mm rubber sheet , https://66kipa-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4mknOWxMDHXBDDn7f6K_JERInRuaPEK7ANY6GGurdCJi-qqZt-eUSZPlxIK-58UtuSXyvF-4gSK8fMA3C1Y2daAKg6sxa9WsLpb_ZGPguaj3wkHlACHqGH4JW qYlYciV31bm6-g3K8EiTW3lBukxOEYhkhJDGHlFgwushBaw6NWt_8k0z1EhhFvO YqSahEhNdb_ONTfvHMumEeE615u2P4Kw?width=256&height=192&cropmode=none

all the spiders and the base are Orbe, as the gyro one has 3 screwholes less which the pointed grub screws go through , the whole plint/bas is off an orbe and it still closes with 2 spiders in the inside, the base is 36mm+thick ,the main spiders are 24mm thick and have been laminated together all the bolst are nylon

https://5qm9sa-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4mKufGAQ9kZWvZRI1l2JCui4b-AgeP5zT9r8PAktnNazyuQ5iFRAeTOWoGu0rRniztum3x_7uBHU 8RyItiXYVxgjZb9UH7SCgiR3ELvo2Gf34c7vBk3UwPu--dBRnG5vhFaKTtLljGWbb1NrigIS13wyERm798p-J4TyHJXhSbJ7BiLiyC9e2adGB48-LbY88GaCt4VtemjhlnWb0bX_uMIw?width=256&height=192&cropmode=none

[gninnam]

Made a little tweak over the Xmas holiday - found some old skateboard wheels in the garage and thought I would see if any improvement with the Orbe could be made - seems to tighten the bass slightly and the noise floor also seems to have dropped - will keep on playing

A few pics:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/gninnamag/Hifi/ORBE/20171231_144808_zpsxizeathr.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/gninnamag/Hifi/ORBE/20171231_144801_zps6iwydsnx.jpg

[gwernaffield]

well done

[alphaGT]

Made a little tweak over the Xmas holiday - found some old skateboard wheels in the garage and thought I would see if any improvement with the Orbe could be made - seems to tighten the bass slightly and the noise floor also seems to have dropped - will keep on playing

A few pics:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/gninnamag/Hifi/ORBE/20171231_144808_zpsxizeathr.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/gninnamag/Hifi/ORBE/20171231_144801_zps6iwydsnx.jpg

Impressive!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[gninnam]

Impressive!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks :)

[gwernaffield]

Well with the cost of new feet being about £30-£40 , i have knocked these up with the idea of the Skateboard wheels, and 3 20mm long x the diameter of the hole in the wheels , and M6 nylon bolts , cost is £5 for the wheels and £2.50 p for the spacers ,£1 for the bolts , less than £10 and they will also stop the deck from moving ,[url]https://66lr3g-db3pap001.files.1drv.com[IMG]https://66lr3g-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4msdZvy1ucQeAfOSZb3ESz9wTwKQF4VhxqzubFxTjxGhxi3Cl X71FWSHmIhwk8BcYNevPFSat1rf5JN4mNQA6mZLH_HBWCJ-g71nt0wseizaPzE_mgSUJT0tcl4C0CkzzTwsFYnqcNbavaRXc6 3N4EXBzJwR0wGmUASKctPq94XRpAiK8fe8-A4iiwgWJNLycXzY07_ydTvWI_7YKWqcccuQ?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

[struth]

need to show some pics assembled peter. look good

[gwernaffield]

https://6alr3g-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4mLqAeocxjOEzU2HHpyp2gCPyoWNNz80iSX5I5PixVWcOUidT KkPBEz9sZGkVWylDeET6gwJ0q42qIfjhOcTpRKp_e1GdsRfAWQ 6Gs0alslqhSvqd__xNQgHhDoW9ket4Swu6mASwjtj1Z5xc9xm3 Bir3pLa4keiFsF9jgji8UmCOuum3t1PE6ejEevhaCMSG-x-Cgj8NJDsmTaEo-8GxCtw?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none


to stop the deck from moving it is worthwhile, but i have not run the deck yet , as this version has a missing spider , so the top part is sitting on 3x 40mm M6 pointed grub screws , because i have taken it out of the full case,

[gninnam]

Nice mod with the wheels :)

[gwernaffield]

well it is upand running , and sounds better then ever i thought i had a problem with too much base , but doing this has tightened the base up so you can hear every note the voicing is now spot on ,
it maksat out of the case ,but i doubt it as i cannot use the sweep arm , with out having a stand made , but the feet seem to have changed the base notes ,not sure how ,voicing is clear and toe tapping music ,https://56nsug-db3pap001.files.1drv.com/y4m3AnbSNHnMRnkmBpRvx6ZpJFEezexvblrqMEJMHR8k--KDIH6A8jRTJIdCbX-_BN6azfDHcsw1fnH5-uBdk7ivtJagKWTeHEYL_5zU62j8cBrpy5hqmrplnE4jSAZFJ-LnyxHZyYBcYv2F1atLJdF4kCcXLysEUB01IlMreSvChDTFn_Wk Gn4p978Zoda4LTK5z_PIdE7k6o-o4_ywrmBBQ?width=4000&height=3000&cropmode=none

[RothwellAudio]

... i thought i had a problem with too much base , but doing this has tightened the base...the feet seem to have changed the base notes...

I think that's bass.

[gwernaffield]

could be correct , but as the fish is spelt Bass , it is easy to get mixed up

[RothwellAudio]

Bass, bass - spelt the same but pronounced differently.
Base, bass - spelt differently but pronounced the same.
:scratch:

Isn't the English language marvellous? :lol:

[gwernaffield]

yep but basses refairs to the instriment , ? so what is the spelling for a pile of bass fish?

[alphaGT]

There is no plural for the fish, plural, “ I have 12 Bass, they will fry up tasty!”. “ I played my Bass guitar, I have 6 Basses”. “ The base of the vase is strangely out of place.”. “He stole 3 bases at the game”.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[walpurgis]

Just don't let your baser instincts get the better of you. :)

[gwernaffield]

so if the base of my cup falls off whilst playing a bass and eating a bass have i got all my basses covered or am i totaly confused on why this ended up on this thread called cheap upgrades for michell gyro?

[gwernaffield]

Ok I am going to try this again , the bass in now correct with the skateboard feet and the delrin spacers and screwed into the base and 2 spiders using nylon countersunk screws ,https://4kkb9q.db.files.1drv.com/y4mPHipJ745gce3XiL_cgCT1KJjh3507stjRAJ6sfwtVPIm2CY Ne9FpdmKpeOd-27bZm3H_02iCZeni717yR7zADZVvRJqHIRzULgf3Tg1_pc7_KP XRMzvGvIlDfpNMU7imhF4dK2H0xQeM1-QhcXe5LnAnyiumxWZz7T5ws7-l0ufOxKPZN2n9islHiG2ZVp75kHQuE4iq70pDy1l9Ojcsyw?wi dth=660&height=495&cropmode=none

now all done ,

[Gazjam]

Looking great.
Thanks for sharing Peter.

[gwernaffield]

Hi Gaz , well one thing has changed , Michell have modified the bearing at least some thing came from this to polish the seat where the ball sits ,which i had done , but then used delrin to replace the bearing top , which i still use after 8 months , hence the black bit sticking out of the top of the deck and not the normal steel bearing top , this has stopped any vibration into the platter

pete

[gwernaffield]

Hi it has been nearly a year since some of the cheap upgrades where done, with no problems at all, the deck is improved with the bass and the mids and highs being spot on , the last upgrade was the skate board wheels off eBay at £6 ,and then the Delrin inserts made to make the posts up to fit into the holes in the wheels to make the feet which were convex on the sides , the surface area being about half a mm , the rest for show,
the ball bearing ended up being a ceramic one , the bearings in the suspension towers are still Delrin, then the bearing Top instead of the steel one i had a Delrin one made which is still the one i use,
with the deck being the odyssey version , the chasse came fully dampened with the black stuff from Michell , i have ditched the clamp for a weight, I still use the plastic spacer under the arm with nylon screws, where possible, including holding the cartridge in place along with a half mm PTFE damper for the cartridge , i am still using the 3 extra spiders , that make the base about 36mm thick and the other 2 making the support for the chasse about 24mm,
cheers pete

[maxrob200]

Are the skate board wheels cast iron? Perhaps using cast iron wheels will improve vibration damping even further. I have used castor wheels under my valve amp and to me there is a noticeable difference.

[gwernaffield]

hi no the wheels are just a mix of rubber and some plastic of some sort , just stops the deck from moving
peter

[gwernaffield]

well i have been messing about with the suspension with a change to using o-rings, so far it has been good with the use of delrin and curtain hooks and o-rings ,but very early , cost would be less than £24
for all three as long as you can get the delrin spacers made, one with a 10mm 1mm pitch thread in and the other with a 11mm hole, the bottom spacer needs to be 34mm in diameter x 5mm thick , have 3 1.5mm holes at 20mm pcd , equaly spaced , 3 small curtain hooks with a 3 mm thread , the top nut needs to me 26mm dia x 10mm long with a 10mm thread . and 3 x1.5mm holes at 18mm pcd and 3 hooks, do not use large hooks or you will have a devil of a chance to find the correct size of o-riings , , https://tcbuaw.db.files.1drv.com/y4m3yy8C7WapCBRBPC5yWNv3bPtu-h9IyYYTvUJvgTG4s-GLXm9pBV-SO62sEajIXCROH-fTVUDYzSR_zN9O8urPhvv0Iqj-Ahrb_1PfZOHxf5jdjJSkqGz-M6chd-kumrcyLVc-9oCeZImwLPi73oteaE0c0jJ3kN9odlm4ttS3mYD1mgCZb6h0XD sao0j0VKgUUavuGjmg79Zb8ukRsadPQ?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

still in development

[gwernaffield]

https://ssaj4a.db.files.1drv.com/y4mSy4S1OIezeAMibjrDG3NV6rQ_sima0l6aUD3JFhfymyG1H7 06nNW-vISCqxOh5pJJnkHJSmB83JcJUYnJBAjALkJq20fOb_uJ3yT4rK Lyd6D2Gc4D9QuFWLxVP402GrxiO0Cex7qXMaMDog73l7SyJeBE RB981RCxl8X_Hi2zOyEkKj8rVd6tildB6gObNDYKVuxJcef6Zc ztRWMId1_lA?width=600&height=450&cropmode=none

https://r8aj4a.db.files.1drv.com/y4mCRZi8aotdMlTlAkOTkR66CERfcJDxn0pHWgMO0SqcBfwDHZ 5lrOao7dgc3-0U67XwTCYnOdq5Ix5z74thlYXoXNiEZw0uQOsGqwjHrydAp1Mu 1rEbkmcvPaGz2aCe4sXMT9q9wbR93njdZH4oJZGqxwbW5BR3Nv knGnoX6hmq2OgoHLFHzTqgz_SV9fL4el5y_eytRFgzPKJgs3LR iKqfg?width=600&height=450&cropmode=none

https://smaj4a.db.files.1drv.com/y4mwWRI6GnQlhhZzrNd8lbQJ9Jb9sj8N91-uCxOfHJTKIadEPV9lD3T9O2-ZwokNx2m2wpxd371opzVCmbzXSImSCcI4ypts8e0BGLRBwrjyr mzgLgAQZQbCnMsyU5XkK3BzBBiPP3PJzuppCuadcSH7xmHblS8 __TOvkJR2RJUsOjFsP22k3im2a-dEsy801oQdT8GhtQ-yh87gbpXkIH4CA?width=600&height=450&cropmode=none

nearly there , just to tidy them up ,

[gwernaffield]

https://qsaj4a.db.files.1drv.com/y4mKyLtekw4EQCGbKijj-6CIeOA3jsaTcj4mUJ2xqko2xFXHo_7B6TM0nVYSv81Yqm7JJnd QMRrs64n1WHVqi7ihj8DIFOXZrsrZL9VRCX7gGpnjYW1ySMs7O bv48zYDI0aKGoiu4H3ZCPiCs-f9ISHWK5QJtp6SiOoPbeva94UVI5CekQo4ao6Nztdpi2T-0V0rBmmL8Vj_qRFGmdVCrRSBw?width=256&height=192&cropmode=none


hooks out of eye bolts , base part is 34mm in diameter ,top is 24mm m10x1mm pitch both 5mm thick now, the problem is do i use the hooks on the top or the posts in the picture which have caused a problem that the cap will not go back unless i cut slots in the side to take the o-rings, so the cap will fit on , i must admit it looks better than just hooks, i will continue with the rest in the week as the angle grinder is doing my head in making the hook out of eye bolts , peter
peter

[gwernaffield]

well i ended up using the hooks on both parts ,so the cap will go back on , and yes they do make a difference total cost was £27 for all three ,

https://ssa4gg.db.files.1drv.com/y4mTjpjlmPaBH8FZ7JWttQxU3Jq1IZCyyYsmh-iLjikkhZdO5b_qqliQ1ciDRTd9fthFjpmaLI8eAY_iIqcTh1cG NEE5mz1ukXhpnOUDNdYhrN1ol9q-hsWdn5U2MlquQ6A903R3vTkpd7RHu2Pl6pTcK2-MSO0qJdXmN22a_py15ydAtnCfDLc_qlFO5jHDRWZCY505FfbYQ tFzv0nA4yKHA?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

[gwernaffield]

https://qcdmrw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mbUaB7yJTUJoiAcICgQpNBnJK9xQaC0kDr01XTWxK-_gq0HKLGO6zCi7FbrI_AsL1eLTA9D05BQJl4Ln1nDgttxHfZx5 Fp0YLVIuWj6uN43_OwukUHyPd3THpUcTN2-s8zzUKuzVNz2iCLI7LcBxupfT1bLOTW7e7JdaHYicltqetKYYn uMRdzAwk2f-YPlt1anWJnq--czcg8l5GTmMrZg?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

[TAD12]

Hi there Peter, just read your posts here for the first time. I too have an Odyssey deck. If you were starting the upgrade cycle again, would you change the order in which the mods were carried out and would you change/discard any of the them. Great read. Thanks so much. Tad.

[gwernaffield]

HI Tad i would do the motor doughnut first that was the cheapest , then the upgrade the bearing ball in the main bearing to ceramic , and the ones in the suspension to delrin all 7/32 , if you want the drawings for the latest version of the suspension you may have them for free the only thing is the pcd is incorrect , and needs to be 18mm on the top nut and 19mm on the bottom support washer , the spiders will give you a lot of problems but it means that you have to make a spacer for the motor , to sit on , i went the whole hog and had that machined out of bronze , due to the use of 3 spiders i had lying around , the base works out a 36mm thick and the top is now 22mm -24mm ,
the other part that was made was a Delrin top spindle with a ceramic ball properly fitted, this cause a problem with static , so i bought a sweep arm from transrotor in germany cost a fortune,
all the messing about the deck is a bit faster in music terms , the sound i cannot and will not change now the springs have gone it sounds a lot better ,
i would keep every thing i have done and Have,
the only reason for the change in springs was the set on ebay made of string and wood , at £140 , so i though i would keep to the principal of trying to do upgrades for less than £40, which i have , the cost of the parts for the suspension was £16 , plus hooks £11 ,and o-rings 50p , and then 3 hrs work drilling and tapping for the hooks that have to be made as you cannot buy M3 hooks small enough ,
the plastic support ring and bolts was £20 Ebay
the bearing ball delrin have gone up since i have started to £1 each
the ceramic ball is now £5 alum oxide one not the harder versions,
the doughnut seal is from £2.60 up
the sweep arm was the most expensive item £90
then the carbon arm board that was £70 , but cannot get the 20mm thick carbon fiber now due to the vast price increase ,
the Delrin spindle , which was not cheap as i had 2 made it stopped any noise going into the lp from the bearing i sent one to Michell , this caused no end of problems with static hence the use of the earthed sweep arm , but it is funny how you can get static on some LPS and not on others, and i would not change that for any one ,
The spiders i might of not bothered with, if i never had a pair lying around and a good friend to make the spacer for the motor for a couple of drinks £20 , the motor is now 3kg in weight , we also changed the motor foot to 5.5inches in diameter it will no longer fit through the hole in the case , but it will not move either ,
i changed the feet several times in the end using skate board wheels with bespoke inserts to keep the height for the belt as that was not my idea it was Andy's , he uses them with the michell feet sitting inside and then a spacer for the motor to keep the correct height , on his orbe , i use Nylon blots and nuts were possible , also a ptfe damper in the head shell , i don't use the clamp i bought a puck /weight instead , got fed up with the deck moving , untill we done the motor upgrade,

Michell suspension is has a problem , the tolerance used is not tight enough so the adjuster can and does move from side to side, it became more noticeable when the o-ring suspension was used , the ball in the adjuster Tube acts like a fulcrum , and allows the tube to move/wobble side to side ,i have stopped this with the use of PTFE plumbers tape , in the recess, don't put too much in or you will not get the adjuster down due to the air being compressed inside the tube, the tube thread is under size and this allows for movement when using the spring but take the spring out and the adjuster is the .25mm under size of the M10 x1mm pitch again the plumbers tape has come in handy as i could not get any -.25mm taps, so i have used ptfe tape,
the best thing about all these upgrades is that the Turntable can be returned back to Std with out any problems , the Odyssey is the best one Michell made and even better now , it would eat and orbe se r for breakfast and go back for its brother ,with or with out the little tweaks

https://qcdmrw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mbUaB7yJTUJoiAcICgQpNBnJK9xQaC0kDr01XTWxK-_gq0HKLGO6zCi7FbrI_AsL1eLTA9D05BQJl4Ln1nDgttxHfZx5 Fp0YLVIuWj6uN43_OwukUHyPd3THpUcTN2-s8zzUKuzVNz2iCLI7LcBxupfT1bLOTW7e7JdaHYicltqetKYYn uMRdzAwk2f-YPlt1anWJnq--czcg8l5GTmMrZg?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none
peter

[TAD12]

wow! thanks so much for a comprehensive reply. I emigrated to Canada a few years ago and had the guys at Michell pack the deck in the original boxes etc., It's now nearly 4 years in the box, so , with winter upcoming, I need a project. Looks like I've found it! Thanks for your inspiration. When I come out of hibernation next spring, I may have a deck in play (sorry). Kind regards, Tad.

[mad-moon]

Wow...I'm using a set of Peter's new suspension towers....they work exceptionally well....I didn't think my Gyrodec could sound any better....I'm using the set with the delrin top and bottom supports....the three hook version, with silicon rings....Peter is going to upgrade them for me too to the 6 hook versions....I have more of everything...crisp detail, faster tighter bass, wonderful vocals and a superior sound stage compared to the standard Michell suspension towers.....It was a bit of a job, changing the suspension back and forth, trying them out, but the results are well worth the effort...quite a dramatic improvement...Thankyou Peter...

[gwernaffield]

thanks Alan , i will upgrade them as soon as they arrive back , with the 6 hook version you can use as many o-rings you want to get the deck the way you want it to sound, i will try and replace the red o-rings with black ones, this was a project worth doing ,
the main reason for the six hooks was encase one of the o-rings snap the deck would tilt to one side, i was not happy with that, so went for the 6 hooks, if i could of got hold of smaller hooks there might of been 8 , so i have stayed with 6,
gninnamag said they are better than the 3 hooks ,and wants to keep them on his orbe, which i am glad to let him , they started off as 3 hooks, i have a set on my odyssey that have the same result, i have 2 sets left and that will be that ,
the cost in the end was around £35 per set , due to the increased hooks ,time , and o-rings , cost of post at £4.95p , not a bad upgrade to do , and the last i can think off , as i am not a business and this has been a bit to occupy my time,
ATB
peter

https://qcdmrw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mbUaB7yJTUJoiAcICgQpNBnJK9xQaC0kDr01XTWxK-_gq0HKLGO6zCi7FbrI_AsL1eLTA9D05BQJl4Ln1nDgttxHfZx5 Fp0YLVIuWj6uN43_OwukUHyPd3THpUcTN2-s8zzUKuzVNz2iCLI7LcBxupfT1bLOTW7e7JdaHYicltqetKYYn uMRdzAwk2f-YPlt1anWJnq--czcg8l5GTmMrZg?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

[gninnam]

Yep - used the suspension with the 6 hooks and made a difference, with the 12 hooks even better - a very worthwhile upgrade at a very low cost.
Found that the 12 hooks added more depth to the bass and an increase in the midband, more of everything really. In between tracks seemed quieter and also in quieter passages the noise floor also appeared to my ears to be lower so all good.
A quick few pics:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/gninnamag/Hifi/ORBE/New%20Suspension/20181019_165428_zpsvzmqj5o0.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/gninnamag/Hifi/ORBE/New%20Suspension/20181019_165437_zpsfxawvpey.jpg

Plus - I think they look better than the 6 hooks too :)

[gwernaffield]

hi andy , well you will have to do with the 6 hook version as it is the last , as you know i cannot get the hooks made, so i have given up , you can add more o-rings if you wish , alan has put red black and red says he gets more bass , but he is using the 3 hook version so with the extra o -ring that will happen or you can always unscrew the hooks you do not want ,
, so have fun . peter

[gninnam]

hi andy , well you will have to do with the 6 hook version as it is the last , as you know i cannot get the hooks made, so i have given up , you can add more o-rings if you wish , alan has put red black and red says he gets more bass , but he is using the 3 hook version so with the extra o -ring that will happen or you can always unscrew the hooks you do not want ,
, so have fun . peter

Thanks Peter for doing this - so simple yet such a good upgrade. Shame the parts work out too expensive :(

[gwernaffield]

hi mate the hooks are the thing that have stopped this ,at this moment , but you never no i may get it sorted, if you are trying to work out the 12 hook version is is simple there are 12 o-rings having 2 sides so 24 strands holding the suspension which if you want you can mix and match the o-rings with different compounds, or take some off , the adjuster becomes part of the system to help stop any movement ,but the part i cannot fix is the screw part of the adjuster the is under size by .25mm to allow for the pressure of the spring against the thread , now the spring has gone, the thread is loose, i suggest using the nut out of the spring as i lock nut to stop it moving like i have ,
all the best
peter

[gwernaffield]

there is another set done waiting to be tested if any one would like to try them just drop me a line
peter

[gwernaffield]

there is now 2 versions of this due to the different threads on the older type although the M10 will fit but it is lose , so i had to alter some things to suit the imperial version which is the one with out the ball and adjuster Andy's Mk1 version which has the ptfe to tighten up the thread ,i had a set of old type given to me off Michell to try and that is when i found out they are different thread , but still the M10 version is under size ,still lose on the thread due to the way it is made ,to allow for the plating and spring pressure ,

[gwernaffield]

i have been asked By A Reviewer , did i mange to stop rotational movement of the sub chassis ,because of the use of 0-rings ,this was because Gert Pederson's Gyro uses Kevlar wire to stop this movement, his design is out side the pylon creating a pivot points for the o-rings to move, the design i made uses the original suspension posts , it is kept with in the engineering design points the covers will fit back on , having put that i looked at the design again ,there was no movement i tested this with a DTI ,but i had a concern that if the o-ring snapped it would drop the deck and may cause damage to the Cartridge, so i made the 6 o-ring version , with 6 hooks in either part , so if one or 2 o-rings snapped through being heavy handed when putting the clamp on it would not make any difference , i also made sure the Chassis would only move up and down when the clamp is fitted and cannot be twisted ,there is NO rotational Movement in my design , so no need to add wires, the design is kept with in the original suspension , requires no drilling , no special tools to fit , (but is a pain to fit new o-rings ) or added weight like plastic padding , sand etc , or feet , They are easy to fit and hide, the Deck can be returned back to Normal with out any Holes been left https://f0yyjg.db.files.1drv.com/y4mEADglQ9dz-RJkyAIQKzPuYNABhRVcma2qweOrtbgai2wYjIkMMdOozkyEAhF HNGfkBvh6_D-1VxfZ_QuaTfROCvr7qiJKFynE6mbTU9aBqd0L6D9pnzt83-SRQZQWVexFVyy2afy69B-X3DWcmgWhc9qDzwl8vveIVCh6xltfkGjglvNaLr6-TizN2ScuUpZfU60jHTKILlfWqaMkczqtQ?width=660&height=437&cropmode=none

https://fuyyjg.db.files.1drv.com/y4msET-kBhD3AGTnaksMb7ygUg2vWLtHO6ct9Gjhh0Ih8vKAn-st7GTPgRtABXvQIYh7Q3eYZkwngUqWcwofgk1BjitEFAVxQL83 GTSkPhWD-nlKg9gppfqg7oKf4cnmeMGro7C0KkcjjAX3Q9K7lC9-h8NWA3J1uHfPdXlaBxaGdkFWgIrW2WkHmytvYpE6xqeB-BgoqJGW_EgpPXRpgrFsw?width=660&height=321&cropmode=none

[mad-moon]

Now using the 6 hook/support ring version of Peters suspension towers...the top and bottom are engineered from delrin, quite a bit thicker than the 3 hook version.. the detail being let through is shiver up the spine stuff...fitted the new suspension today and used Dire Straits On Every Street LP to give them a run out...I thought I new this album inside out....detail I've not heard before...crisp super clear vocals...the guitars are almost valve amp like..and lordy, the bass is astounding..faster tighter and more musical..whilst digging real deep..real impressive stuff...adjustments are still an option and there is the option to switch back to the springs, should you wish too...but to be honest...the springs are going in the draw....The aluminium covers go back on perfectly...

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1941/45605303812_08537ca869_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ctZ6XA)susp 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2ctZ6XA) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

[gwernaffield]

Thanks Alan i hope you enjoy them , and yes they let you hear every last note on the LP ,they have even caught me out on quite a few LPs, they may not look pretty but you can hide them ,they give you all the music as it should be on a deck that now should be costing thousands of pound more, The Deck with in the designed engineering points and will not let it move off them there is no rotational movement of the sub chassis , the only sound is what the cartridge is putting out and that is every last bit of the LP ,
the Gyro and the Orbe are now more stable than they ever have been ,there is a little bit of a give in the way the o-rings are put onto the hooks , and this stopped any thought of rotational movement so no need to drill and tap the outer chassis like Gert pederson , no need to change the feet as on ebay and then buy the pylon replacements , just fit and forget ,
i have a new set on the way that may get rid of the hooks, or 50% of them, but i am not going to upload pictures yet until i have loaded them with at least 5kg of weight ,
as usual money has got in the way ,and i have to wait for my favorite shop (china ) to send the parts. peter

[YNWaN]

You could bypass the need for hooks altogether by making the top element from 10mm laser cut acrylic (with all the hook type cutouts included).

[gwernaffield]

all ready done that , no hooks at all in the latest ones, made of delrin but that is giving the game away lets say the latest ones may be 3d printed , i have had to redesign the base and the nut part , but that took some doing due to the weight of the orbe and
acrylic cracks over time, does not take a thread as well as delrin , test one below , i am waiting on new o-rings and grub screws , bottom part not yet done due to3d printed version being made
https://d0zhya.db.files.1drv.com/y4mK8HXbaZN3aCWYbf248ce2gVNoYQy1oWun1sphuAutCtSdp7 O-ubMjI8gD0n91qdKQYyyNHDWTMh56o77jysSkl0FAK5lsuoxrIu UkLspd0Iim4vLMewff2GssocZO1WYz6Jre8A5I52kpH1Cj2EuM gx2MTqoLDJ28nWisOtjZvevWk64SBRnRhLQnmwTJjNpSoU46vB lwaOjIRpzCelLXQ?width=256&height=192&cropmode=none

[gwernaffield]

https://d0xipq.db.files.1drv.com/y4mEeTQOk42J8vwYND2PggUfFLtaY0Ng-JGPOr5r-B-doM_IYIteQ6BG_gABHRFtkpMxqEtuD3Lji08LM5gME0oSessj8 lcMHmkdTPMMK10jeki6O-Ehxjg5IzFPCjiONMWRfvTRWInPJHQI-tmcIqBkkivZ2cm8tniW5ZBPjzYDuB_I41howaUsF5GzZngeS6z 0wvDvPlac98rR8YbgeNu3w?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none
https://fkyr3w.db.files.1drv.com/y4m3k1ey7VADk7cGoUoPRNCIIJa22XJs5EdXP1RKhkzhbAwqjg zdBlY8VxJ3Hctfb3_wKWeBD47DcnsoA6QLHnzJr7PPPXqLr-RrZecQ2uUxNwTzLkfrUBc-QaYgA5VJ_MzkJurMvyOvGcfJPp1sJf3TGQLeMTODlPtyuH2mKZ BIMhAqQ_shy81ZRB5tGjAXtzWXgYPWVQ1eRWY59St-XbBzA?width=256&height=193&cropmode=none

if any one wants the sizes please just send a message, i dont make these , it was not and is not a commercial venture, parts where bought from a vic scott on eBay , drawings i.e sketches my self , slots and drill holes done on a bench drill using a cross slide, vice a 3.5mm slot drill , there is only one set and this is it,
o-rings from china,grub screws from china, etc ,

[gwernaffield]

This has been re-designed so now it will not need the grub screws ,

[gwernaffield]

Hi Alan , the new hook less versions are made and a set will be sent to replace the 6 hook version you have , i just hope they live up to these which have been great to hear, but the cost is too high the hooks have to be home made and take a while to do but you can never get them all the same, the new version is tapered from top to bottom the way the o-rings are held keep every thing central to the original suspension posts they are easily hidden by the caps and have taken this now to the final set up and design i am limited to do , oh and the o-rings do not require grub screws

[YNWaN]

all ready done that ,

Hmm, yes, I see you have now.

[gwernaffield]

Hi , well the design changed again so this time it is the last , they do not look like the ones above or need and grub screws , i talked to the local plastics company who would not recommend the the use of 10mm perspex , saying the nut would not last and would crack , so thank you for the offer , The new parts are made out of machined delrin , as there are 2 different threads that michell used on the decks , it was easy to just machine the delrin and have the threads done at the same time, one set in imperial for the older Orbe and one in Metric for Alan' s gyro and of course for the Odyssey , so thank you for the kind offer , but as i said in the beginning these are not for sale or a commercial venture at this moment in time ,so far there has been no distortion in and sound , like you said may happen with the belt , but as my odyssey has been modified over the last year the motor pod , the bearing top and bearing are no longer std ,i would not be able to honestly report that , so i have asked 2 fellow AOS uses to try these out and report back with their honest opinion , i have never met them ,
ATB
peter
pete

[Vince]

I heard these over Alans yesterday and I heard a definate improvement over the steal springs. When the design is fully sorted I know which I will be fitting to my Gyro. Al was over mine on Friday and set my Gyro up properly (I had not since moving). Suffice to say......we played vinyl all day......Wow what an improvement. We normaly go between streaming, SACD, DVD Audio and vinyl, but the sound coming from the vinyl was jaw dropping. Just goes to show, I thought it was sounding good already, then, Whoosh. Detail, stereo image, image placement etc is fantastic. Cheers Al

[mad-moon]

Thanks Vince... the 6 hook version is excellent, they put the springs to shame on my set up ...I'll be receiving the new design in the next couple of days (Many thanks Peter..)and I will report back when I've give them a run out....

[mad-moon]

New suspension fitted...and after some swapping and changing about with bearings and re-sizing the teflon washers, I have my tt sounding fantastic....the new design is outstanding....excellent work Peter...:clapclapclap:...I have to give you 9/10 for these mate....saying that...I never give anyone 10/10...I wouldn't want anyone to get big headed...cheques in the post....

[gninnam]

Same here - listened to a load of vinyl this morning with the new suspension on and WOW - changed the ORBE into something a lot lot better.
Seems to dig even more information out and the sound quality (to my ears) is second to none - a quick picture:

https://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/gninnamag/Hifi/ORBE/New%20Suspension/20181124_121352_zpskp237vyx.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/gninnamag/Hifi/ORBE/New%20Suspension/20181124_121311_zpstppzl53g.jpg

For me looks much better than the springs so the covers won't be going back on :)

[gwernaffield]

Hi thank you both for doing this , i could not comment as the odyssey is already modified ,it would of not been fair to all the people who have read this, they do work exceptionally well with out the need to modify the chassis or add feet to get the very best i have ever listened to out of the deck, it has cost a fortune and been fun to do ,with more changes to designs to get the very best with out touching the £100 mark ,which it has well below that , the disappointment was the 3d ones that had problems keeping the sizes needed for the parts, and also allowing them to be cheaper , but they are being worked on , and may be offered as a composite set of 3d printed nut and delrin base,if you are interested just send me a pm ,if i can help i will but some parts are kept secret ,for my design sake, so here we go the Nut is a M10x1mm pitch with 6 slots in the side and counter bore.to make the base part , the base is 33.1 x 26,2 with a 22mm hole and a counter bore , if you want to make them ,
sizes have been changed to protect the design , these sizes will fit if you want them too, but they are Not what i use
p.s cost is £50 , due to a hike by the supplier of the parts, and post that adds up to £12 buy the time all the parts arrive and then sent out ,
peter

[gwernaffield]

Best oil for your TT if you can adjust the speed , as it contains a friction eliminator ZX1 C76 Micro Lube 35ml Motorcycle Car Penetrating Pin Oiler on eBay

[gwernaffield]

The suspension parts are much more expensive , with the machining costs, than the hooks, with the new version , the hooked ones are no longer made,

[gninnam]

The suspension parts are much more expensive , with the machining costs, than the hooks, with the new version , the hooked ones are no longer made,

The hook versions were a big improvement on the original springs but the new machined versions are again a further improvement so the extra costs are well worth it :)

[gwernaffield]

pylon up date , it seems like michell have changed the size on the 34,7 to 33.5 or their supplier , this was beyond my control , each set has been fitted to my odyssey before being sent out , if any one wants to send their set back please contact me and i will refund any payment or send a replacement ASAP , as i said these are still under continuing development to get the bugs sorted out , my apology for any inconvenience caused,
the size was taken from the michell part so i will ask anyone who want these to check the size of this before ordering so i can get them made to that size,

https://g0z2ag.db.files.1drv.com/y4mvP9sY1VojkHc9g7W8JT7_2-d9629g5pdWOHIVZCzM0cxKOPFubx5ALnnNAd2E6DzElmkpUoYi B6gAgD8Mho6bW2sKP3KKdVUIwyFunrpqLQzbmG-B4HUb4cfIBQby0vsjZVNJYW84Y7u278QmuBAx87zqwVWGgO6IS nnlW5T9T6RUqzZs7kv4VzJMbefSh1rnNAW6UdQduLgWT5Ztyau Zg?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

[AJSki2fly]

Tales of the Unexpected

So yesterday a set of the 3 pillar suspensions arrived from Peter and this morning I was able to fit. The first unexpected issue was that they would not quite fit, that is to say that the bottom nut that the chassis hangs from was slightly too large, so a quick call to Peter and I measured them with gauges and guess what Michel have changed the size of the machined hole by 1mm. Never mind out came my trusty file and after 30 minutes of gentle whittling all 3 were pushed into their orifices. This was my choice as Peter was more than happy to get them replaced ASAP at his cost. Personally I could not see the point as it was a relatively simple task and wanted to see how good they were. Peter and I chatted on Skype whilst I did this about a variety of topic.

So about an hour later I had the deck level and had checked the set up of the arm and also adjusted the speed.

So the next unexpected thing was when I put on Peter Gabriel - So, WOW everything was just better, it seemed more detailed and controlled, bass more extended, and low mid is certainly more defined and soundstage is more open. Quite a revelation for such a small investment. Bear in mind that everything has not settled down yet, so this is a great result.

So what have I got to compare it with, well my system is pretty revealing and musical, to my ears anyway. A close friend has a very similar set up to me (same speakers, 300b amp but with a an SME turntable and V arm). Having heard his system at length I would now consider that the level of detail from mine is pretty close to his, so as far as I am concerned this is a major result.

So to sum up if you have and Gyrodec, Orbe or a GOrbe IMO you would be quite foolish to not do this upgrade, the improvement is significant. Next is the ceramic ball bearing for the platter bearing, and similar for the pillars, and the simple motor upgrade.

Thank you Peter for all you help, and it certainly was not you fault that Michel changed the hole size, simple for you to fix. The design improvement is great.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181201/fabb5dcb2e0b16f94bdf14a8ef963c1b.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181201/86983a20eb62449f5fe90492ad430a6f.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181201/a3220d617299c0e3baafb65e45dabdf4.jpg

[Hammer]

Got these from a company called Solidair audio top and bottoms are made from ebony wood, very similar to yours but much more expensive.so well done
Martinhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181202/a58b777e41620ce5cbebe8d17f1d093c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181202/cb94ada8e1856c6edbe0057dcfd022a1.jpg

Sent from my K007 using Tapatalk

[Hammer]

Got the feet as well.Didn't say they were cheap,but hey you can't take it with you☺.Together they have made a big improvment to the sound.

[gwernaffield]

unfortunately due to cost out of my control they will be £75 , the person who is machining them is moving to spain , i have had to find another machinist to do these and the price was higher if you also take into account the cost of post ,

[gwernaffield]

Hi all i have taken the add down for now, this was due to being asked for better Pictures , well if the person needed them or wanted to copy them Good Luck , each deck is hand made , Nothing is Standard , accept the springs and bearings, each hole will be different in size,
what has happened i have been accused of being a trader which i am not these were done to help michell owners tune or upgrade the decks, all of them done for that reason , but i cannot do this with out payment for the parts, it has snow balled from their , how ever if you want to make them you can just spend the 6 months of tryouts and failures ,to get to were the pylons are , there has been reviews from grateful owners who never pay upfront only ever pay what they cost to put together , in the prices their is about £12 in post , on every one ,as one product does not make a Business, the cost would have to triple to £250 , so it is not a viable prospect ,
Bearing balls ,oil , plastic rings, etc all bought off eBay
PTFE washers direct from Michell
o-rings from Swansea,
other parts eBay via China,
pete

[gwernaffield]

hi thank you , they are still available but just as a hobby , so no rush , what i am still struggling with is why the springs do not work ,other than the frequencies being transmitted and the rotation of the chassis, which cannot happen with the replacements, every time i look at this the cost seems to go up ,as i do not machine the parts , so every time i order the parts they have gone up ,which is then passed on , Michell just never made the Deck Standard , with holes both metric and imperial , with the center nut being 3/8bsf the outer suspension thread being M10x1p , but the early version can be imperial one thread is no longer made any more so machine work is expensive in that case, the other is one of 2 imperial ones with the same TPI ,
The holes in the base can change by 2mm , so trying to mass market them would be a nightmare every one made to order every one taking up to 6 hours , to produce and check pack and send , so as a viable product to be come a trader it would need to be far more , so they are just a way to keep my mind going , and helping members on this forum ,
Pete

[mad-moon]

It's a bloody shame, when the pound sign raises its ugly head...I know you were making nowt on these Pete and were just making them for Michell owners to get the best from their tt's...It's a further shame, when you are accused of being a trader, by someone who will remain un-named (you know who you are)...the cost of these just about covered your outlay....but when you have a pie, everyone wants a piece, for nowt, even though you were making nothing....greed for gold...I couldn't be like them, shame on them...

[gwernaffield]

Alan thank you , i did another design just to help the springs , but that will never be seen on here,Michell are looking to see if that will help , they would of helped the suspension but not been in the league of the hook less ones, i have come to the end in this now so all the best , and have a great new year ,

[AJSki2fly]

I have to say Pete that the more I listen to my GOrbe with the suspension mod you supplied the more I realise just how good it is with this mod. Everything is just more detailed and controlled.

I have also fitted the ceramic ball under the bearing and it is noticeably quieter. Toilet fitting next.

With respect to the springs not working as expected, have you considered that they might be oscillating at certain frequencies which would upset things greatly.

As others have said it’s a terrible shame others have tried to muscle in. The only way I could see prices being kept down is a larger volume order, but that is a big financial commitment.

Thanks for all your hard work, chat soon[emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gwernaffield]

to prove a point i have just had an email from a guy in Canada with regards to the suspension , the size of the hole is 35,2 mm , the smaller 29.4, he has seen the pictures of Alans deck ,but also it proves that the hole size can change on every deck out there ,
he saw mr moons deck on here and knows that i am not a business and they may take a month or 2, depending on the cost, as his is a mk 2 the same as lostwins, he said after 33 years of use there was no rush ,
AOS (Marco ) knows that this is just a hobby , and he is happy for me to keep posting , which with his permission ,
when i have been asked for 20 a week it is then i know these are being taken seriously and i must then put a plan to turn into the dreaded trader with all the problems and pricing that will bring ,

[gwernaffield]

well it seems as though these have worked again ,on Vinces deck ,the more i hear the more that is helps to put the things correct , the hole sizes are now sorted with just the size of one of the components to sort out which has turned out to be very easy , to do ,

[AJSki2fly]

well it seems as though these have worked again ,on Vinces deck ,the more i hear the more that is helps to put the things correct , the hole sizes are now sorted with just the size of one of the components to sort out which has turned out to be very easy , to do ,

Great to hear of another satisfied owner, hopefully they will let their friends and other owners know. The more I listen to mine the more impressed I am with this upgrade.:dance::lol:

[mad-moon]

well it seems as though these have worked again ,on Vinces deck ,the more i hear the more that is helps to put the things correct , the hole sizes are now sorted with just the size of one of the components to sort out which has turned out to be very easy , to do ,

Yes Peter....I've been using these on my deck and they are wonderful...a Gyrodec with an sme309 arm and a Denon 103 cartridge..so so revealing is the sound, crisp clear vocals, wonderful separation, wide sound stage and the best bass response to date...just to double check...I took them to Vince's home and put them on his Gyrodec...which utilises a Rega RB300 tone arm, with a very nice silver wire upgrade and a techno-weight...and a nice Ortofon Kontrapunkt B cartridge..Lo and behold...absolutely outstanding...Buffalo Springfield Again...a very complex album, with a lot going on, everything picked out perfectly...timing is impeccable...wet wet wet the memphis sessions....exceptional...Pink Floyd, Dark Side Of the Moon...rapid...and a superb rendition of the little ginger fellas album..Divide...a great afternoons listening...

[Gazjam]

Peter deserves success with this.
He dabbled, found something better than the norm then reached out.

Gave what he found out for free initially, but the double sided coin of forum life meant he had to change that.

Being one of the guys who improved his Michell turntable thanks to his research I’m thankful to him.
Nowadays my digital is just as good so happy where I am, but I’m sure John Michell himself would have been interested in these upgrades improving his design.

[gwernaffield]

as you now i have done this thread to help others, which i will continue to do so , the pylons were always on the top of the list to sort out, but doing them in a sympathetic way to the design of the deck so you do not have to change the feet ,or buy a very expensive plastic padding kit was the challenge, to send me up the wall for months, i did this design and placed it to one side,due to the cost in the machining of the parts ,
This is the cheap upgrades for Michell Gyro , and not clobber the HIFI user for every penny they have or push the price up so much the man who can just about to start a HIFI cannot upgrade , so i am a bit embarrassed about the cost of them which is just the cost of the parts and the post , and i mean post ,i think £12 -£15 is post , on every one ,
They are made when i am asked for them, due to the Michell Chassis having different sized holes, which still causes problems that only one set can be made at a time and low volumes one off's being machined cost a fortune to get done, so they get machined and they arrive at home the slots need to be done , and other parts added , but to keep the price as it is, there is no fancy box ,and never will be,
There are still Hick ups, Michell as changed the Hole size several times, as the sand cast Chassis had a problem when cast they have reduced the hole sizes several times but now that has been sorted in the decks after 2014 but before that date it is a user help i needed for the size of the holes,
the price is the cost of the machining ,/printing , (software and cad design is expensive) so i hope the price will not go up ,
Michell do have a set of them and were testing them out ,i do not think they will take this up , they will design their own which will be to the Michell sound,
these are just not like that , all the feedback has been from people i have never met only talked after they have fitted to the decks and have left feedback , even on very old mk2 decks , it has caught me by surprise,
yes the Caps do go back on , no wood or string guaranteed , no plastic padding , sand or holes to be drilled,
just add the pylons and be amazed, how good the deck you own and john Michell made
happy Christmas and a Happy New year to everyone, on AOS

[Vince]

I've got the the suspension towers on my Gyrode SE with a rewired RB 300 arm and a Ortofon Kontrapunkt B cartrididge. These towers are phenonamol, the music is just galloping from my speakers, every aspect from bass, mids and treble have al improved drastically. Thanks Peter and Alan for fitting them. I was a bit sceptical at first, but boy do these work.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4897/32496099098_45a766f041_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Rvz17E)IMG_0002 (https://flic.kr/p/Rvz17E) by Vincent Parkin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/140250732@N08/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4897/32496099098_2c0e2f81e0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Rvz17E)IMG_0002 (https://flic.kr/p/Rvz17E) by Vincent Parkin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/140250732@N08/), on Flickr

[gwernaffield]

Thanks vince they are good, but still have to make a set for my self as every time i do i am asked for them latest happy camper was Tarzan , who has the delrin version
Having had these bad boys for a couple of weeks now and feel l have a handle on them l only thought it appropriate to put pen to paper and spread the love of this upgrade...….

Having felt that the springs on my maxxed out Gyrodec could be bettered ( they ring like a cow bell )it is like waiting for a bus- two quite similar products in principle come along at the same time :
They are made of Delrin which has superb vibration properties and 0 rubber rings, they were easy to fit and machined superbly basically the Pylons replace the spring suspension and this is the important part- stop the platter, moving from side to side, fitted in no time at all- and best of all passes by the dreaded 'Gyrodec bounce' and just leveling the deck is all that was required, so sat down to listen and listen...……. and listen..... B'Jesus, the solidity, imaging has taken a very large step forward W&F is way down, this in turn gives a deeper more 3D effect, tonal colourings are also up, the feeling of the deck sounding calmer and being in total control of the record is very, very, obvious, oh and the backgrounds are a LOT blacker, dynamics are up and this brings a strange sensation that the sound is louder ( however this is due the blacker backgrounds)…. l could go on and on, but am going to listen to more records, l know of no other upgrade to my Gyro that has given me this lift in sound quality ( and trust me l have done a lot.) If you are thinking of upgrading your Gyro/Orbe or was thinking of moving on from them you simply have to try this upgrade.

l have no connection with gweraffield just one very happy camper. Tarzan

[gwernaffield]

i have been told about a problem which is easy to fix , the adjuster can get stuck , this is because Michell chromed the adjuster which has made them all sizes , so i have used a std 10mm , it is a very easy fix, which if you have a problem please let me know , they are not with out support the adjuster i have found can be 10.1 10.2 upward , , please let me know i will sort it out, (please make sure the deck it level and i mean level ) THE way they are designed means the deck must be level or the pylon will stick on the adjuster ,

i will have copy PTFE washers at £2.50 for the set of 3 , i have some extra ones,
1
it has been said these are like Gert Pedersons, but the design is far away from that as possible, gert has to drill and tap the chassis to stop rotational movement of the chassis, and add kevlar wires , he weighs down the chassis with plastic padding , and sand due to the design and using 3 large o rings on steel pylons that he makes he will NOT sell it separately the design means the deck simply cannot stay in one place it will move with the 3 large o-rings, hence the need for the weight and the added wires to keep it stable, so the deck is no longer a gyro it is what gert has made it into his own


2
now this design has taken a while to get too ,the caps had to fit back on , with help from the members of AOS ,wam , so now i have a upgrade in keeping with what i started some 18mths ago ,
it uses the Michell adjuster and 6 o-rings, and is made of Delrin for Now, it stays within the Michell designed points , which stops helps stop rotation of the chassis
, i have NOT done a review as it is up to the members to comment ,which has been great ,
with this design you do not have to buy feet or drill holes, i it does not damage anything accept the concept the gyro /orbe is not very musical or clear
,once you have fitted them , throw all the digital stuff away ,as you will not believe what is hidden in that black Vinyl and if you don't like them send them back , and put the springs back in and no one be the wiser ,

There will NOT be any 3d printed ones like vinces these failed on the foot , due to bad printing ,so i will not do them until i can find a proper 3d printing company and not some one who has just set up and printed them,
The machine needed has to have a better resolution and must be kept in a dust free environment ,with no drafts this is so the plastic filament will adhere properly and not fail, as any one can print them but getting them correct seems to be the problem ,even on a 4k printer, if the 3d printer is not sealed in its own clean area for get it, they are fine for models but working parts forget it with out the correct machine

[AJSki2fly]

Well I am sat here listening or should I say re-discovering another record, The Police - Ghost in the Machine, and the change that the Delrin pylons have made becomes more stunning the more I listen. The bass and low mid is truly wonderful, goes very low and yet is still controlled (remember I do have some great horn speakers so they should be fit for the job), drums are dynamic and tight, instruments are clearly separated and defined. I have the impression of being in the room stood with the drums in front of me. I am not exaggerating, I used to play in a few amateur bands so am used to how a drum kit sounds when you are in the room with it, the set up on the Gyrodec now seems to extract a lot more detail, and dynamics.

Thanks you Pete for this upgrade is certainly is worth its weight in gold!!:):clapclapclap:

[mad-moon]

Solid Air Audio Thingies??? ....These are nothing like them at all...these are machined from Delrin and suspended using NBR o-rings and are designed and made by Peter ( gwernaffield ) They have no association with Peter whatsoever...If you want a proper set of pylons to support your Michell TT...believe me..these are the boys...I'm hard to please, and I don't part with my coppers easily....but these are exceptionally impressive...and worth every single penny....

[AJSki2fly]

Solid Air Audio Thingies??? ....These are nothing like them at all...these are machined from Delrin and suspended using NBR o-rings and are designed and made by Peter ( gwernaffield ) They have no association with Peter whatsoever...If you want a proper set of pylons to support your Michell TT...believe me..these are the boys...I'm hard to please, and I don't part with my coppers easily....but these are exceptionally impressive...and worth every single penny....

Mr Moon, I think you need to read my post again, I am actually pointing out that I love Pete’s DELRIN pylon upgrades and they are NOTHING to do with the Audio whatsits. Ok [emoji108]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gwernaffield]

well it has been eventful to say the least ,with the pylons now sorted to were i am happy, i now know which sizes i need to make sure are correct ,a new Nut has been designed so it will support the o-rings better and yes it will be 3d printed , the base will always be delrin, i have been forced into adding the adjusters this is to stop the sticking adjuster so the price will have to go up to reflect that they will Michell originals , , unless you supply yours ,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1RjS4SC1lw&t=156s

[gwernaffield]

The suspension will be supplied with the adjusters , so they are easy to fit , the internal 28.5 is the same as Michell and now the 33.7 is the same as the Michell suspension so all little problems have been sorted, as Michell has kept the 28.5 all the way through ,from the imperial to metric , The main problem being the Adjusters which i will supply from Michell , this will help in the plug and play part ,
as for rotation on the chassis . i am 100% positive the suspension reduces this to a very noticeable when these are installed , i have had a gauge made to check the sizes of all the parts now, pre 2014 34.76 and after 2014 33.76, which is now the std size
with the 28.5 being std through out apart from the pain thickness that i cannot do anything about ,
, i understand that this will put the cost up , but the alternative is to send the adjusters , which is not what i intended , and will hold this project up ,

[gwernaffield]

All the Best to Every one have a great and safe new year :cool:

[mad-moon]

Why should you buy these pylons? Why should you invest in any of the inexpensive upgrades for your Gyrodec or Orbe, why are ceramic balls better than steel on these decks. These upgrades lower vibration to an exceptionally low level, there is less friction, less movement, lowering noise..little or no metal to metal interaction if you do all the upgrades, therefore you will be hearing a lot more of the music when it reaches your ears..I've done the majority of the upgrades including the new pylons and boy they work a treat. It's up to you should you wish to employ these clever tweaks, no ones arm is being twisted...So anyone asking the question, why should I buy, the answer is..you don't have to..it's advice and very good avice at that..and your choice to act on it..or not.

[gwernaffield]

Hi Alan , as you know what the pylons do , and want to keep them to your self lol...., well i agree there is not a sales man among us , The benefit of the Pylons Bring is vast..... in every sense of the word, No Dealer or Retailer are involved ,and to hear the difference you have to BUY them , even with the Bush problem Now sorted , i just cannot get them back,
So yes you are not Forced to Buy them at all , it is up to you to seek out some one who has them fitted and have a good listen or ask their honest advice off the users......
, The little Tweaks on here have been done to help the owners of these Turntable's get the Very best out of them with out needing a very large bank account ,
with all that said , the cost of the pylons compared to other products seem Too Cheap , and i was told that they would not work , to use sorbothane under the feet , well that would not work in a million years, the Chassis would still want to twist , so now the bearing replacement , that came about after a certain Manufacture put the same bearing Ball in the Orbe-R , so what was good enough for that seemed to be the best for the gyro , lowering the noise floor off the bearing given less noise into the platter and on into the cartridge ,
Then the balls in the towers , i used Delrin but after some advice from Alan i changed to Ceramic , which has made a difference , to the mid's ,
The Oil i use is a mix of Mobil 1 and zx1 super lube but only do that if you have a HR power supply so you can adjust the speed , you will notice several other things on my deck the center spindle is Delrin ,which holds the bearing ball, the arm board is made from carbon fiber , there are 4 spiders and the complete case, the motor is 3kg ,
all of this over 2 years , but the best i left to Last ,the Pylons, over the last 3 years , to get them correct , they took a fortune , learning that the cost involved in One offs machining wise is very expensive ,
Michell Changed sizes due going from imperial to metric, caused problems , and then the adjuster seems to have a 100 different sizes , the threads are different , there was 2 different imperial sized threads , but the metric one is under size to allow for the Chrome ..

please Note there are 2 types of suspension , the original solid version they will be imperial , then the new split version with the adjuster Metric and imperial in the early ones,
You Are Correct Why should you do any of the advice , You Owe it to your Michell Turntable to let it give you the very best for the investment you have made in these iconic turntables. and not add string wood or plastic padding ,

[gwernaffield]

i thought i would show the difference of the adjuster so https://g0wldq.db.files.1drv.com/y4mnXTr3fB4zAEj6tUTqRtt9Lexrzy-Aun01aEKV_wmYvI0JnwJ03Iwdw53OUZ8uephm5aoMq8vcouegj ZFaasaaMo_xg96mQtBjCSs43ndtr74DlBH9l4yWCVKLgW4Wp3s KXWt332m315q9PtUkKBonLKRi7KMgWz40JQZKmBacGsA5PhV6J O4Zbdbj7z1I9GOYssvqCl0B9Lvga6ApvgOCA?width=660&height=495&cropmode=nonehttps://gewldq.db.files.1drv.com/y4mj6KpZZqFgknVpJ_N1rj4yY0bpT1S_gVovMBDsrRK9whlh0l jO6CnAPSKRuYRcNZ1-YUvHQDJ_N6Zi9dbpDlhRkcZDRA8uf4beqL2nW3O9rCJRedSnMQ m7viu4F8Q15_uPunfrfThBpX6mderlpw3IHSUCyF9ojnJDwENd mvrkn09Jhy-AWaNJWROb3dtwie56IWYZiTIBBQPnioX7KtZbQ?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

[Pegwill]

Hi Peter

I have a Gyro and I’m interested in your mods can you please send me details.
Many thanks
Regards
Bill

[gwernaffield]

all the details on the mods are on here if you need to just send me a pm .
peter

[fingle]

Hi Peter,

I'm interested in buying a set of your new pylons. Are you still making them?
If so, what do you need to know from me in terms of sizes? Is it the diameter of the bottom spring support or the diameter of the hole in the chassis where the springs go?
Would it be easier if I sent the spring assembly to you?

[gwernaffield]

these are the last to be made pete

[gwernaffield]

The reason above was because of the problem with the adjuster , this is easy to fix on some decks but not on the orbe, it seems as though the suspension post is out of alignment , or the weight of the platter has caused the spider to bow, it happens on the gyro as well , over time, so now the base has to be made lose fitting , i am experimenting on how to stop the chassis from rotation , but still using the same way of location , of the adjuster maybe using a soft rubber washer , or a foam rubber like sorbothane
on top of the base, so the chassis weight stops the rotation with the help of the rubber washer

peter

[gwernaffield]

Tested and working , so i will make them if required

[electroresearch]

I would like a set of these as well I have a Gyro 1993.
Just know how to proceed.
Many thanks

Steve

[gwernaffield]

Another happy camper and new Aos member

Hi Pete,



The fit is good, with easy movement up and down.

I can’t see any misalignment that hinders the operation of the pylons.

Your help, advice and service have been exemplary.



There is a much greater clarity and distinction between each instrument/voice.

Bass is much improved, both in depth and solidity, something I’ve always looked for to get the most out of my transmission line speakers.

For me, I’ve still got some work to do dialling the arm back in – I seem to have lost a bit of the treble sparkle, but I’m over the moon with the pylons.

You deserve all the credit your get and more!

Kind regards, fingle

[gwernaffield]

oldest gyro now done 33 years old, and a happy camper and lives in Canada, new pic to follow

https://guwldq.db.files.1drv.com/y4mdpBZrx1tQkrT4H4Hfd7QltgoBcg2eTU3VuUU1-FF6EnPzvSdzZqgttZL6PYXMwKJFJIKVZybYYdg_XOpCKz35fBM yGklr3U-OXtCqmW94ihz6cdV8i5zCNyvbJvmh61CYKakTMIZfmTernHZMg RM5P1dxHdcsKZDo0-2r7YWTVI-66DzMHlP-Q2rSDUgEETUu1peE8AvTLbMxE4ZoEMJOA?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

[gwernaffield]

https://dkwldq.db.files.1drv.com/y4m03CIS286vnMV_5Z2XaUNGit5DVqRY0cwA7X7RldPZcE1CdP qnmCarSVtBJVsKExGHp4dPfJl8juBb8WfGQgGGOAU9vYU1tXoT IxDHhDwFtLGf889tsZ_CR4aAnZnAhiEj31hEluz4BnlCyf-hZkATrOfN-keSmP7MKVFAivPo_mD28O5hqtt_X30vd9R6wbBs_ygb2j_3fbv-2yApUE_cQ?width=660&height=504&cropmode=none


these are the sizes that i need to know, if you can take them off the chassis the better , if yoy take it off the spring retainer or the cap , the chance is they will be wrong ,

https://d0wldq.db.files.1drv.com/y4mE6rZvhZsRSlcMRk_dRRzjuAGR-Pm7j8lUdayYrXrbhtttOEGI825KPjZHi084WeiEzFY5iS3iLrz kge29vs4takb_8XOJHQFs8__j3v3WjPAV5c25YzUwIOrdxY5qw 5z50oqoy5EpunetVGbYSarlL863rXOPJhqXV6MMriln2oSrtE_ L7KRo3QWYp8WTpC9f22w4AA6gm6GpamxDZ6JJA?width=192&height=256&cropmode=none

[blake]

Table above is mine-that photo was taken in the evening in poor light conditions so I've attached a couple of better shots taken today to give a slightly better impression.

To say that I'm pleased with Pete's suspension modifications would be an understatement. I had a chance to listen last night for about 3-4 hours and another hour or so this morning to recordings that I am very familiar with and the improvements are significant.

Detail retrieval, separation of instruments, intelligibility of vocals, the ability to follow bass lines and low frequency information have all taken a pretty significant jump in performance and the whole presentation has a much more effortless, controlled feel and sound to it, particularly with dense and very dynamic recordings where low level detail seems to really emerge in quieter passages and huge dynamic swings are rendered with much lower distortion.

I might be imagining it (don't think so), but I also believe that surface noise has been further reduced, which I have never felt was a weakness in my setup before.

It's quite impressive and really a no brainer I think for anyone wanting to wring more performance out of their Gyrodec. These are a tight fit (notwithstanding the problems Pete has had as a result of variances in sizing from Michell over the years) and a bit different than working with the standard spring set up but the efforts are worthwhile.

I should also say that Pete was a real pleasure to work with in terms of his communication; he really encouraged me to get the measurements right so I ended up borrowing a set of digital calipers from a friend which resulted in a smooth transaction. The original measurements I took with a steel ruler would probably have resulted in a lot of grief.

https://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/user_image/2507/25374.jpg

https://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/user_image/2507/25375.jpg

[mad-moon]

Your Deck looks fabulous Blake..immaculate in fact..and of course sounds as good as it looks I'll wager...

[blake]

Thanks Alan! I picked this Gyrodec up for a song at an auction in 1985-it was a few years old then and is a very early model actually having soft feet at the time I purchased it-and then had to put a bit of money into it (but it was still quite a bargain) to get it into working order. Over the years it has been upgraded with most of Michell's modular upgrades: platter, bearing, suspension posts. And I've of course changed arms and cartridges over the years. It has been a real source of enjoyment for more than 33 years now.

It still sports the original AC motor, which has a 1981 stamped manufacturers date on it.

I've always been pleased with the sound of it but am even more so now thanks to Pete's ingenuity. He has really come up with something in terms of this new suspension and is to be commended.

[gwernaffield]

Thanks Blake i am to please, now people may not see this as a joke, or they are a piss take, they do exist , they took a while to get correct , and i learned a lot with every set done, it was a pity that Michell never kept to the sizes , that would make the job easy but every one is different in one way or another, it can never be a commercial product always a bespoke one,
The orbe i had a problem with has been sorted , with a smaller base in one or of the holes because of the spider being out by 1mm, that locked the adjuster up so tight he could not turn any of them but now he is a happy camper , i hope they Bring you Hours of pleasure ,

all the best
pete

[electroresearch]

Hi Pete
Can you send me a pm about the pylons please. I cant seem to pm you as yet.
Thanks.

Steve.

[gwernaffield]

Hi Steve pm sent

[gwernaffield]

The spider /base posts seem to be out of alignment on some decks , to find out measure them with a tape measure, one may be upto 2mm out in which case , you can take the bush out and let me know and i will get a new smaller base made,to accommodate
the posts not aligning up ,or open the hole up and the bush and see how that works, if all three adjusters are too tight send them back and i will get them re machined smaller to take into account the spider or base being out ,
the distance should be equal between the suspension posts,
https://gkzagq.db.files.1drv.com/y4muYrIks5L_iP0gIbhnsFVJWjStP-c5EvROP6rx6zZqSAEgcDg1Jfdndgc_J_9E7mT7s2_C6iYITdoa NQILw8fBLVx1rZwKg8l7kjU2KnUHbrqYpART0_tpTy7koQ6I-9OqxAT7o5ujvC404pFWEia98MEwplT6Q-w3jDIKbOoOtHwvnT3izONRhMy21kV6Hgr7n_tFboh5AE8RYqvF um8jg?width=640&height=480&cropmode=none

[gwernaffield]

This the Orbe From Hell the pylon post was out by 2mm , new base had to be made and took 2 weeks to sort with the aid of the understanding and helpful owner

https://g0zagq.db.files.1drv.com/y4m7Xh3DnDMPoB66dLcJme0eoxEZZuXRPvWayGAF67j329rtHZ uiMJl4plX9Pl-10Wv8Q0q-jweqne_ECD9CpT1K9pUdi3nVw9SZhKlTJUxpQ-XvXxRwsKb1YjG4NrV67g8GecUEWHuLzuCvj961Pt1XNPz6gKkx AZpAmeWXRZjbS1zC2vgw_omvhWT81Gju7ijBOXLe1T0tacHyl3 mqTez6w?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none
https://gezagq.db.files.1drv.com/y4mgGnQEBvR26PE51Q5G9_ZQcS3pTBRJV3dJVe96IEv2SsQLbO xa_YYSLmldxgKbZ4mFdB8zAQ9Zn5ao_tAGHfKHljM-wDGy-TJug0kOT9zQ0DZa5jhFFIDQyMO7MiFAtXDl2BLCTn5bo29Osf-yAacfLpe4ZR3vOjThbqytQs5rJpkyQDBavoUg8H10VoEDemJDu iYprgb7Q6oZFJkBonsVQ?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

[soundfx]

Due to web search I saw that I can replace the original springs suspension with somekind of wood pylons with string attached from a company called Solidair Audio and also from a guy who make custom pylons with named Peter ( gwernaffield ) and is a senior member at this forum.
I would like to contact with Peter email regarding a custom made pylons for my Gyrodec.
Any help more than welcome.
Thank you in advance for any help!

[Whitesnake]

Hi Pete,

Please send me a pm about the pylons. Still a newbie so cant pm yet.

Thanks.
Michel

[gwernaffield]

just a quick upgrade , for the ones with the split suspension , cut a 8mm disk out of 1mm rubber or sorbothane 3mm remove the split suspension adjuster , remove the ball , place the 8mm rubber pad on top of the small shaft , put the adjuster with out the ball back on to the small shaft , the rubber will stick to the top of the adjuster , remove and insert the ball , if you want to add a second pad to the top of the small shaft as well , put the adjuster back on the shaft ,and that is that instant isolation ,

[Vince]

I,ve got the pylons and replaced the steel bearings with ceramic bald and Wow. What an upgrade, it sounds like I have changed my amp or phono stage or cartridge.....the improvement is that big. Now I have got the 8mm rubber pads in the shaft as well and WOW WOW WOW. The stereo image and separation have taken another step up the ladder. I'm listening to a lot more vinyl now, it is just so more listenable. Stunning.

[AJSki2fly]

I,ve got the pylons and replaced the steel bearings with ceramic bald and Wow. What an upgrade, it sounds like I have changed my amp or phono stage or cartridge.....the improvement is that big. Now I have got the 8mm rubber pads in the shaft as well and WOW WOW WOW. The stereo image and separation have taken another step up the ladder. I'm listening to a lot more vinyl now, it is just so more listenable. Stunning.

Thats sounds great, I’ve done the pylons and going to do the rubber pads next week, so looking forward to getting the WOW[emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fingle]

This may sound like a naive question, but how do you cut a precise 8mm hole in sorbothane - is there a crafty way of doing this?

[walpurgis]

This may sound like a naive question, but how do you cut a precise 8mm hole in sorbothane - is there a crafty way of doing this?

Hole punch? Personally, I'd look for a bit of 8mm metal tubing and sharpen the end edges, then bang it through the sorbothane or rubber sheet with a mallet.

[gwernaffield]

use a punch easy , also only put on top of the post and not the ball, pete

[gwernaffield]

Happy person Peter.finesound who has a 2 arm Orbe
Once I had completed the suspension installation and replaced the arms and platter I did quick check just to see that all was in working order. By now it was well into the evening so I had a meal to prepare etc. so left the turntable. When I returned later I found that the suspension had “ settled” by a tiny amount ( we are probably talking seconds of arc here as the bubble level still had the bubble within the marked target area for a level setting but indicated a slight bias towards one side). I corrected this with the adjusters which , with the load of the arms and platter, were stiffer to turn than without it ( no surprise). I had a couple of similar tiny adjustments to make later but now all is completely stable. Oh, and the cutout in the motor housing now correctly aligns with the chassis position.



The result is quite something. Compared ( from memory) to the old spring suspension the overall resulting sound is far more neutral. That is the natural timbre of instruments is better revealed and the difference between recordings from different sessions or record labels is more marked. Bass is not extended further( it was always good) but has gained pitch and detail. Background noise is zero except for any pressing or tape modulation noise etc. on the disc. Although the turntable has gained neutrality this is in no way sterile and the ability of the Orbe to communicate is enhanced not diminished. Likewise the wide and deep three dimensional soundstage is improved. In particular regarding the bass end of things, the sound no longer tends to clump around the speaker position. These are all details, though, compared to what I find is the main benefit. The overall stability of the sound reveals entire passages of music that had previously passed unnoticed. That is, what may have been a generalised, pleasant, orchestral wash of sound now attains form and structure giving it real meaning. This is a major achievement.
One thing that I forgot to mention is the great reduction in audible wow that the lack of lateral movement of the chassis that the new suspension provides. In fact I have been trying discs that could bother me greatly due to being slightly off center with the old spring suspension exaggerating the effect. Now those same discs are easier to listen to with some of them now no longer providing audible wow ( it is no doubt still there for a meter to find but I listen with ears).

I am absolutely knocked out with it.
Best wishes

[mad-moon]

Hole punch? Personally, I'd look for a bit of 8mm metal tubing and sharpen the end edges, then bang it through the sorbothane or rubber sheet with a mallet.

:thumbsup:

[gwernaffield]

3 little sorbothane pads have helped in stopping the microphone effect off the feet into the chassis , i suspect this would work with all the gyro /orbe decks ,

[AJSki2fly]

3 little sorbothane pads have helped in stopping the microphone effect off the feet into the chassis , i suspect this would work with all the gyro /orbe decks ,

I am next up once postie turns up with sorbothane, I am very interested to see if they work as I believe the vibration and microphone through the feet and into the chassis is a big issue with the gyro. It may not be so much with an Orbe due to the additional spider which the feet are fitted to and the upper spider having the pylons fitted to, obviously a Michel attempt at fixing the issue.

I will report back on results once fitted.

[gninnam]

I have an Orbe with the original pylons and i have never noticed any microphony issues to be honest!

[gwernaffield]

the problem is the gyro uses the suspension to keep the feet on , i read an old review were they complained the feet caused noise to travel into the chassis, and you could hear if the platform was tapped into the chassis ,
also i was told by a user Aejoker on his gyro if he tapped the chassis he could hear the tap through the speaker , The answer was simple in the end to isolate the small shaft in the split adjuster (upgrade system ) in the Michell pylon , what i did not expect was it works as well with the orbe if you have a split suspension , the older type on the orbe , does not have the feet on the suspension or the new type,
Michell has decoupled the suspension in the orbe , But not on the Gyro , 3 little pads will help stop 90% , it was there when the springs where is use and still there when the new suspension was added due to the Michell design

[blake]

Waiting on a new switch for my table (I have a temporary switch in place) but when that comes in and is replaced and I rebuild the table I am going to give this new tweak a whirl.

I have a Herbie's Audio Lab Super Black Hole here which I use rarely any more as I just don't listen to digital much at this stage. It is a dual layer mat consisting of a very thin top layer of carbon fibre on top of a similarly thin layer of silicone. Designed specifically to reduce vibration.

So I've punched out and am ready to go. I also have an original Herbies Grungebuster CD Mat that I've also punched out. It is an extremely thin rubber material with a bit more adhesive on the underside and I may place a piece of that underneath the Black Hole material to prevent it from rotating or slipping underneath the ball bearing.

Will report back with results when it happens.

https://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/user_image/2507/25572.jpg

[mad-moon]

That looks interesting Blake. I guess you are putting these under the bearings on the pylons yeah?....looking forward to hearing about your findings Blake. I'm using the sorbothane provided by Peter and it is very effective..

[blake]

That looks interesting Blake. I guess you are putting these under the bearings on the pylons yeah?....looking forward to hearing about your findings Blake. I'm using the sorbothane provided by Peter and it is very effective..

Yes, underneath the bearings. That's the plan.

[gninnam]

the problem is the gyro uses the suspension to keep the feet on , i read an old review were they complained the feet caused noise to travel into the chassis, and you could hear if the platform was tapped into the chassis ,
also i was told by a user Aejoker on his gyro if he tapped the chassis he could hear the tap through the speaker , The answer was simple in the end to isolate the small shaft in the split adjuster (upgrade system ) in the Michell pylon , what i did not expect was it works as well with the orbe if you have a split suspension , the older type on the orbe , does not have the feet on the suspension or the new type,
Michell has decoupled the suspension in the orbe , But not on the Gyro , 3 little pads will help stop 90% , it was there when the springs where is use and still there when the new suspension was added due to the Michell design

Makes sense why its not a problem on my Orbe then!
Well done on yet another verycheap mod which appears to work well:clapclapclap:

[AJSki2fly]

I just tweaked the Gyrodec again, 8mm diameter by 3mm sorbothane glued to 1mm thick rubber place on the top of each suspension pylon and then the supports for the chassis (the threaded adjusters that the springs are normally on) fitted over them. This is to try and get some form of decoupling of the chassis from the legs which are attached to the pylons through the spider. Also my feet sit on small indented discs, I have glued some 2mm rubber under these as well.

Listening tests are that initially things sounded a little dry, then after listening to a few tracks I realised what has happened. There is obviously some form of better de-coupling due to the sorbothane/rubber in the pylons, the result is that there is less microphony (feedback) going on through the chassis enhancing and colouring the music. So bass is more defined (less bloom), overall more clarity and separation.

So a positive result. Not perfect, tapping on the shelf with a record playing still induces a noise through the cartridge, but I would estimate a 50% improvement. The only other thing I can think of is to replace the Gyrodec metal feet with some form of rubber feet, possibly firm sorbothane. I am going to search for some that may be a similar height and could be fitted in some way to the pylons.

[mad-moon]

Waiting on a new switch for my table (I have a temporary switch in place) but when that comes in and is replaced and I rebuild the table I am going to give this new tweak a whirl.

I have a Herbie's Audio Lab Super Black Hole here which I use rarely any more as I just don't listen to digital much at this stage. It is a dual layer mat consisting of a very thin top layer of carbon fibre on top of a similarly thin layer of silicone. Designed specifically to reduce vibration.

So I've punched out and am ready to go. I also have an original Herbies Grungebuster CD Mat that I've also punched out. It is an extremely thin rubber material with a bit more adhesive on the underside and I may place a piece of that underneath the Black Hole material to prevent it from rotating or slipping underneath the ball bearing.

Will report back with results when it happens.

https://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/user_image/2507/25572.jpg

:popcorn:...what's happening Blake?..

[TAD12]

I know it's a bit out there, but what do you think of speaker spikes embedded in sorbothane hemispheres. I'm waiting in anticipation for parts from Peter to work on my Odyssey deck. I tried the odyssey feet into speaker spike protecters for wood floors. All this on top of a granite bass. Marginal difference but a solid base to work from. I'll keep you updated if you like. Kind regards. T.

[AJSki2fly]

I know it's a bit out there, but what do you think of speaker spikes embedded in sorbothane hemispheres. I'm waiting in anticipation for parts from Peter to work on my Odyssey deck. I tried the odyssey feet into speaker spike protecters for wood floors. All this on top of a granite bass. Marginal difference but a solid base to work from. I'll keep you updated if you like. Kind regards. T.

As I understand it the key issue is to stop vibrations getting to a turntable which will colour the music, most noticeable with low frequencies. If your Odyssey sits on a solid granite platform then it is pretty likely to be free from vibrations unless possibly it itself sits on a wooden floor which is subject to movement. If you need to de-couple it more then I would talk with Peter about rubber feet.

[blake]

:popcorn:...what's happening Blake?..

Sorry Alan:

No sign of the switch yet and swamped with work so have not done anything. Will likely be at least the end of next week before I can report on anything.

But will keep you posted.

[gwernaffield]

Blake if it dont turn up soon let me know , it is with Canada post , pete

[blake]

Blake if it dont turn up soon let me know , it is with Canada post , pete

Thanks Pete! Not worried about it-Canada Post can be very slow, especially on simple normal delivery. Will let you know. I think it will probably show sometime early next week.

[gwernaffield]

making skateboard feet using the post off the original feet , buy the skateboard wheels off eBay ,£avrage is £9 , a V-Bush Shock Solid Rubber Mounting Absorber Dampener ID 9mm OD 23mm L 16mm, cut in half , and fit to hole in the center of the skateboard wheel , they will go in with a push , open the hole out , it need to be a tight fit or the Michell post will fall straight through , the with the Michell part fitted screw to the deck , now on the under side on the wheel fit the 2nd part , all the way into the wheel to stop the michell post pushing all the way through , you can super glue this to stop that happening ,

https://dkzagq.db.files.1drv.com/y4m8kAdaftJEGsIGbHkrzIYdgT7N3tvAJe-iN0CfNBP7_kzYL2q2yxGBaKQ35KY35NA7EknUjENDCEf8xfxct EoIzUDpJTgnxt1PKp1i5YshkEPoECCpE0jkCEemg-Ia9CdRkNaHk9nwu-LWstPw_a112MNujpIjbwl2Rctz7xk4vxCEMEeQO3_EzfUg5MzW EaEtk1CmmmknetruvdD-Vq7qg?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

[gwernaffield]

https://guzagq.db.files.1drv.com/y4mnmB5x6Wu397AdKQHnOSio24Du0PdLAPOV-bbdHVgjUWj_3YVQ2BASym1vo_hvvvO8CXGkEysUeAugvbUliqI PWOqk1UuBNmy5OKBQG-31gSyPoHQF_ge6ODYYYNSBH5_gMH910eR8xCNl2JrMSoo_GlH2 kuu1X1ZNVAu2NLsMBXMrUoUjj40goYFj1gavoybBDJ7vyq4qWK ltdTDWVQwnw?width=1000&height=750&cropmode=none

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https://dkzagq.db.files.1drv.com/y4m8kAdaftJEGsIGbHkrzIYdgT7N3tvAJe-iN0CfNBP7_kzYL2q2yxGBaKQ35KY35NA7EknUjENDCEf8xfxct EoIzUDpJTgnxt1PKp1i5YshkEPoECCpE0jkCEemg-Ia9CdRkNaHk9nwu-LWstPw_a112MNujpIjbwl2Rctz7xk4vxCEMEeQO3_EzfUg5MzW EaEtk1CmmmknetruvdD-Vq7qg?width=1000&height=750&cropmode=none

[gwernaffield]

Hi ALL to carry on with the small tweaks , pegwill has been in touch with one which he will upload the details off , but to use the michell PTFE washer on top of the bearing this seems to cut down on any noise off the bearing , being passed into the platter , i may try sorbothane washer which i have to make and get back with the results, just concerned that the sponginess of sorbothane may cause the platter to wobble,

[mad-moon]

Hi ALL to carry on with the small tweaks , pegwill has been in touch with one which he will upload the details off , but to use the michell PTFE washer on top of the bearing this seems to cut down on any noise off the bearing , being passed into the platter , i may try sorbothane washer which i have to make and get back with the results, just concerned that the sponginess of sorbothane may cause the platter to wobble,

This is another superb tweak and believe me..it is letting more detail through yet again..better sound stage...better stereo image...wonderful...I've tried three different washers....the ptfe which is an exact fit round the rim of the bearing housing top...a rubber one..pretty much the same fit as the ptfe..but I have gone with a fibre washer..which is only 21mm OD...17mm ID..and only 0.9 mm thick...it works for me...exceptionally well....I'm just wondering now, if it can get any better...every tweak is giving and giving

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7889/40130490513_9a9e1c91d8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/249cfGR)FIBRE WASHER (https://flic.kr/p/249cfGR) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

[blake]

My switch finally arrived in the mail and tech installed it so rebuilt the table today with the isolation mod on the suspension posts. Ended up with an almost constrained layer approach using an 8 mm washer on top of the Herbie's Black Hole carbon fiber/silicone sandwich on top of another piece of very thin Herbies material punched from an ancient Herbie's Grungebuster CD mat.

So photos, in order are post with CD Mat material, then black hole damping material followed by the washer on top. The ball bearing in the suspension post tends to rest primarily in the hole of the washer and be somewhat supported by it; I felt that this might be a good idea in terms of preventing it from really digging into the more compliant material and chewing it up.

First listen is promising-I'll report back in a few days after some more extended listening time.

https://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/user_image/2507/25630.jpg

https://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/user_image/2507/25631.jpg

https://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/user_image/2507/25632.jpg

[gwernaffield]

Hi Blake , i no they are the split suspension but is the top of the small post on yours flat or recessed to take the ball, ?
i am glad to hear the switch turned up ,
pete

[blake]

Hi Blake , i no they are the split suspension but is the top of the small post on yours flat or recessed to take the ball, ?
i am glad to hear the switch turned up ,
pete

Hi Pete:

I have the recessed posts. I've done a fair bit of listening today. It's difficult when you make one change so quickly after another and I have not had the pylons in play all that long.

Bear in mind also that I have a plinthed Gyro with the motor attached to the plinth and then the feet/suspension posts attached to the plinth as well, so the benefits that I might get from this latest tweak may outweigh those with a SE type Gyro. Just more chances for vibration to feed into the suspension in my version of the table.

But I am liking what I'm hearing. With the Herbie's material used to isolate the two posts from one another I seem to be getting a much more fleshed out presentation. It's hard to describe but the effect is really positive. It's almost like there's more "texture" to the music and you can hear more into the performance at the same time. More detail and more relaxed and natural at the same time. Music just flows better as well-it brings to mind the Linn "PRAT" thing.

Definitely not in the league of the pylon upgrade but a real positive nonetheless.

I also punched some discs out of one of those small rubber mats you use to take stubborn locked on lids/caps off bottles and jars. A little more dense and slightly thicker as well with these but not much and the positives were not anywhere near what was achieved with the Herbies material-I felt the sound was a bit thinned out and hi-fi-ish with these in place of the Black Hole material. But some might prefer that presentation as this is such a subjective hobby. In any event, there's clearly something in it in terms of isolating this way and different materials are likely to have very very different effects on sound quality I think.

I also experimented with another Herbies product on the underside of the platter where it interfaces with the main bearing. This was not a success for me as I found it kind of tipped up the presentation and smeared things at the same time so I reverted to the standard setup there. Maybe I just had the wrong material there but that one just did not work out for me.

[gwernaffield]

Hi All after a day spent trying to upgrade the upgrade, i have given up on that, they are the best i can make them at this moment in time,
But in the way of trying to stop the microphone affect which is a design flaw of the suspension it self and the Turntable, i think i am just about there , it would involve the following 3x 20mm x6 mm duro50 sorbothane washers with a 10mm hole in the center , 3 31x1.5 cross section o-rings silicone duro 50 , disassemble the pylon , remove the ptfe washer fit a red silicon o-ring , and then slide the sorbothane washer on top of the base fit the adjuster through the middle , and assemble the pylon back together , then fit the lot back onto the chassis, when level , push the sorbothane washer onto the top of the base, so now it is touching the base and the adjuster , job done, the bearing needs to be tight to the chassis to stop it moving from sided to side, the washer on the top of the bearing did not work on my deck as i found it caused the platter to wobble up and down , but it did not do it with the ptfe one, as for the pylons them selves i think i could never go back to the springs, regardless of the microphone affect , and cannot do any more to the Turntable , it now sounds better to me than ever , but we all hear differently , what is fine by me may be crap by others, even a change in the o-rings , adding rubber pads, adding string , etc all will have an effect , some positive and some rubbish , but at least now we have the option to do that , where with the springs we did not and facing hundreds or thousands to get a better turntable when all it needed was the pylons replacing in the first place,
all the best peter

[gwernaffield]

https://eddvdw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mDiGSDm4Bxie5k5mES6Wt8IE4WN-dMHv7zG1FLg8dsKfHk3p575PsTlXOmONLmq7hj56CYUjLmwnVB 0Mz7WjWs_V_S-0d_HxtT8YchmRgR8Bv3eVL5gdpFqAQZnEULp6lJTiocRm1juzZ etojyDTBTRv7m2i-zo4c99f8aPFdXimWzAfxRsvGbY7bRK9yJxtWf91qPSbbYNn0Ti 3Q6zZgog?width=660&height=443&cropmode=none

i was thinking of putting this together as a pylon system to include the ceramic bearings x4 with 36 o-rings, 3 nuts 3 bases and 3 sorbothane pads, 3 ptfe washers ,
pete

[AJSki2fly]

https://eddvdw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mDiGSDm4Bxie5k5mES6Wt8IE4WN-dMHv7zG1FLg8dsKfHk3p575PsTlXOmONLmq7hj56CYUjLmwnVB 0Mz7WjWs_V_S-0d_HxtT8YchmRgR8Bv3eVL5gdpFqAQZnEULp6lJTiocRm1juzZ etojyDTBTRv7m2i-zo4c99f8aPFdXimWzAfxRsvGbY7bRK9yJxtWf91qPSbbYNn0Ti 3Q6zZgog?width=660&height=443&cropmode=none

i was thinking of putting this together as a pylon system to include the ceramic bearings x4 with 36 o-rings, 3 nuts 3 bases and 3 sorbothane pads, 3 ptfe washers ,
pete

A great idea, anyone who has a Gyrodec of Orbe really needs to do this simple but extremely effective upgrade. It take the deck to another level of clarity and definition in my opinion.

[gwernaffield]

Skate board feet by Mr Moon , using cheap skateboard wheels and 1/2 BSF Nuts
https://etdvdw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mWGKnDvh6FiS8yf5qHbF62mIw7cz_h1YZMxxiDUnEz4YR5-FnWG51RcEDvBlpCJuEgDUJ3_yhtAt7Cs-0nsujPFLfVvjjwBqJG6LAcDDYSx__pu1cuxWV10wrwysn4HcdA PMLKjc4PeaOZhYg7s5BwAdkx0cV9H2xLIG0PrR2m-eSlF7SWwTSStPq6xwoEsWevvCOlk8PV8KKA8apJvEKEQ?width =660&height=283&cropmode=none
https://fddvdw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mgiM9zjhKMxOZ86HquWjJSbmawmJLtlhmZxJWT9mrbBiN21A Pv8w44XRCui5kaH-dTJ4hdKBztU453qhqY27a1fIEmzVonrZZRLxyNJoScBU334a9p dotov2zMYw26ebOoQ5klBhXcRBf9PXsPrWXhy1dUK7W1SoBqEk 2QG393JLDZtCAvozuPOCF4Lt7uUipaTAup3MQ_jRlGi3fFyHtj Q?width=660&height=369&cropmode=none

these stop the deck from moving , i did them a different way but MR Moons way is simple and cost effective, add some small sorbothane pads the the base of them for further vibration resistance if needed

Well Done MR MOON , :clapclapclap:

[mad-moon]

https://eddvdw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mDiGSDm4Bxie5k5mES6Wt8IE4WN-dMHv7zG1FLg8dsKfHk3p575PsTlXOmONLmq7hj56CYUjLmwnVB 0Mz7WjWs_V_S-0d_HxtT8YchmRgR8Bv3eVL5gdpFqAQZnEULp6lJTiocRm1juzZ etojyDTBTRv7m2i-zo4c99f8aPFdXimWzAfxRsvGbY7bRK9yJxtWf91qPSbbYNn0Ti 3Q6zZgog?width=660&height=443&cropmode=none

i was thinking of putting this together as a pylon system to include the ceramic bearings x4 with 36 o-rings, 3 nuts 3 bases and 3 sorbothane pads, 3 ptfe washers ,
pete


All the tweaks on the table are excellent...but this one with the pylons kit is by far the best thing you can do for your turntable. This upgrade brings your turntable imho, into the 21st century...The design of the table is good to start with, however it is an age old design and the new design pylons by Peter, bring it to life..In ways you can't imagine.. on a personal note..My turntable is sounding exceptionally well..a weighty, crisp clear presentation...The other interesting thing about all the tweaks and upgrades, should you in the very unlikely event, wish to move your turntable on at anytime, everything is easily returnable to the turntables original factory condition..excellent stuff...

[mad-moon]

Skate board feet by Mr Moon , using cheap skateboard wheels and 1/2 BSF Nuts
https://etdvdw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mWGKnDvh6FiS8yf5qHbF62mIw7cz_h1YZMxxiDUnEz4YR5-FnWG51RcEDvBlpCJuEgDUJ3_yhtAt7Cs-0nsujPFLfVvjjwBqJG6LAcDDYSx__pu1cuxWV10wrwysn4HcdA PMLKjc4PeaOZhYg7s5BwAdkx0cV9H2xLIG0PrR2m-eSlF7SWwTSStPq6xwoEsWevvCOlk8PV8KKA8apJvEKEQ?width =660&height=283&cropmode=none
https://fddvdw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mgiM9zjhKMxOZ86HquWjJSbmawmJLtlhmZxJWT9mrbBiN21A Pv8w44XRCui5kaH-dTJ4hdKBztU453qhqY27a1fIEmzVonrZZRLxyNJoScBU334a9p dotov2zMYw26ebOoQ5klBhXcRBf9PXsPrWXhy1dUK7W1SoBqEk 2QG393JLDZtCAvozuPOCF4Lt7uUipaTAup3MQ_jRlGi3fFyHtj Q?width=660&height=369&cropmode=none

these stop the deck from moving , i did them a different way but MR Moons way is simple and cost effective, add some small sorbothane pads the the base of them for further vibration resistance if needed

Well Done MR MOON , :clapclapclap:

These feet are brilliant..originally the idea came from Peter..utilising inexpensive skateboard wheels of all things..The idea was to use the v-bushes..you can see this in Peters original idea but I wanted to keep the feet so they were still adjustable. The 1/2 inch BSF nuts are an interference fit, albeit quite a tight one...as they have to be tapped in with a mallet..but they work great towards reducing noise transference, from whatever the table is placed on..In my case it is on solid Granite, so these feet now don't move at all...as the tt could sometimes move with the solid cast aluminium feet, should the stand be accidentally nudged...

[gwernaffield]

HI all i have been asked if the covers will go back over the pylons when fitted , the answer is YES , the whole idea was so the covers would go back over ,as well as get rid of the springs ,

[gwernaffield]

Hello , with regards to a Double Pulley , i stopped using one due to the WOW i was getting from using 2 belts, and losing the 45 Rpm for some Lps, which meant i had to change it every time, i also have the Odyssey TT, that has been altered in several ways.
all on here , as the New Pylons cut down on the wow and also now the improved design for the Feet from Mr Moon , it may not make any difference if you use one pulley or the double Pulley , if any one knows please leave your thoughts on here ,
pete

[Pegwill]

So what can I say. Peter supplied the Pylons however because of bad manufacturing by Michell after fitting two of them it was quite clear that the third was was off centre by about 2mm. So an email to Peter and a bit of discussion and a replacement was provided that’s was off centre. It fitted very easy and so another success for Peter.

Well on testing it was soon apparent that that it was different. After to listening to a few more lps I decided that the distortion or colourisation that was missing and now I was hearing the real music for the first time, I used to think it was so good. Anyway, I’m using a mc with an suit with no impedance matching, but I never really noticed that it was a problem. So after adding some resistors to the primary for the recommended load. I was so much better. I know it’s a cliche it really was like a veil had been removed and just because of a few pylons. I say just a few pylons but obviously a lot of research and time and effort went into them. I have also changed the bearings for ceramic both the main and in the pylons as well has added the rubber to the pylons.

So all in all very successful and very pleased I would say a must for any gyro owner.

I then did some further research on the web and found that some suggested fitting a thin piece of rubber between the bearing and the platter. I tried this but did not like it. Because I happened to have a pylon ptfe washer that fitted the outside of the bearing surface I tried this. I liked what I heard. The only drawback is that the platter nut cannot tightened up. This does not seem to have any effect on it no wow or flutter, so at the moment it’s just the wieght of the platter holding it down which seems to be ok.

So all in all money well spent very pleased with result and I for one won’t be returning to the springs.
Thanks once again Peter highly recommended.

[gwernaffield]

Hi All some thing was asked on PFM and a picuture of Gert Pederson parts was used(These look similar (but not as finished) to Pedersens who has been making them for years, whats the difference?) the reason is to some how pick at the pylons so here i go with the answer , NO i do not own a Gert pederson Gyro But know of some who does, and the comments were they move all over the place, This would be down to the design of gerts only using 3 large o rings, and also needing a pile of sand, plastic padding , string and holes to be drilled to stop them wobbling not my words but the owners, the string stops the chassis moving and the extra weight is added to the bottom of the chassis ,also filled in with sand and sand well added, you have to send you gyro to Gert to get this done ,He Will NOT sell his suspension separately i suspect it would not work with out all the sand and string , and yes they are all nice and polished steel , which will not stop the wow, unless the string is holding the chassis back , current price of Gerts upgrades are on line around about £600 -£850 with post ,
for gert to do the deck him self it would be an extra £200, on top of the price which is for and orbe se,
Now i come to the fact they are made of steel , you have taken a steel spring and replaced it with a solid steel holder , which hold 3 thick o-rings,which must RING

Now you come to the Pete's Pylons as they have been called By Tarzan ,but just pylons to me, , Yes you may not think they are as pretty as gerts ,but they dont Ring like Gerts either,
they keep the chsssis from moving with out the use of string ,sand , and palstic padding , cost a 3rd or less than gerts no need to destroy the chassis, no need to add string and do not look like gerts use a different principal have taken 3 years and
a lot of help from AOS members ,
i hope this answers all THE CHRONICLES Questions, as the deck Gert Does looks and sounds Great But is it still a MIchell????? with all the holes, drilled ,weight added, and £160 armboard added, as well
and i own the IP to these
,https://c9dvdw.db.files.1drv.com/y4m8vlqyXTctmJZXXLKBeBBS5rCx-wfylZRafD9djytoUfskn5PP0DQfHAr24F4mhUT_kFqKtqrEBmK lMEWk01S-wzv4guWcnj1pHNDzKX5h2wRnaGzv2ePYt8usj2YDsktmnLo6Mk 2TgK4pFKa-oDTPdXouyn0zOLuYCkfrEX_nt4MHc-WcaeCcH5n9O_VqGKOnjFOnpRHggZkqjT31Rx5JQ?width=660&height=440&cropmode=none
a Friends gyro now fitted,

[seanm]

I installed mine today - very straightforward. I'm an impressionable type so I'll be swapping back and forth for the next few weeks but they do seem to have made a positive difference: everything seems a little cleaner and more solid, and the slight graininess I was getting with voices is gone.

Not a regular poster here but wanted to thank Pete and report on my (early) findings.

[AJSki2fly]

Skate board feet by Mr Moon , using cheap skateboard wheels and 1/2 BSF Nuts
https://etdvdw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mWGKnDvh6FiS8yf5qHbF62mIw7cz_h1YZMxxiDUnEz4YR5-FnWG51RcEDvBlpCJuEgDUJ3_yhtAt7Cs-0nsujPFLfVvjjwBqJG6LAcDDYSx__pu1cuxWV10wrwysn4HcdA PMLKjc4PeaOZhYg7s5BwAdkx0cV9H2xLIG0PrR2m-eSlF7SWwTSStPq6xwoEsWevvCOlk8PV8KKA8apJvEKEQ?width =660&height=283&cropmode=none
https://fddvdw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mgiM9zjhKMxOZ86HquWjJSbmawmJLtlhmZxJWT9mrbBiN21A Pv8w44XRCui5kaH-dTJ4hdKBztU453qhqY27a1fIEmzVonrZZRLxyNJoScBU334a9p dotov2zMYw26ebOoQ5klBhXcRBf9PXsPrWXhy1dUK7W1SoBqEk 2QG393JLDZtCAvozuPOCF4Lt7uUipaTAup3MQ_jRlGi3fFyHtj Q?width=660&height=369&cropmode=none

these stop the deck from moving , i did them a different way but MR Moons way is simple and cost effective, add some small sorbothane pads the the base of them for further vibration resistance if needed

Well Done MR MOON , :clapclapclap:

I am waiting for delivery of skate board feet, and rubber bushes I will then be fitting and trying out. At the same time I will be making another small but cheap change and will let you know about that after.

Everything I have done to my Gyrodec as advised by Pete has been an improvement so based on that I will be interested to see what these changes make.

[TAD12]

Hi there, I've just applied a mod to the feet on my Odyssey. I used Target Audio speaker feet (years old, sitting in a drawer unused) under the Michell feet.The Michell feet sit snug inside the Target audio feet, which were designed for metal spikes and much more weight than the Odyssey generates. The Target feet then sit on top of SDS anti-vibration pads. Just now, also awaiting a granite slab offcut from a kitchen installer to finish off the base. If anyone wants a link to the feet then pm me.

Excellent work from Peter.

Kind regards.

T.:cool:

[gwernaffield]

Hi Tad great to see other people adding to this thread , that do not normally do this, and to see the thread is live and well, i am still convinced that there is more to do to the deck which should not cost a arm and a leg with regards to some how stopping the microphone affect , that has always been there ,any help in this is always wanted on here , if you know of any upgrades to any turntables you might as well add those ,

kind regards
Peter

[gwernaffield]

Differences in the odyssey , the odyssey uses the same decoupling method as the Orbe using the case and a spider so the feet do not connect to the suspension only to the case/plinth , also the underside is heavily damped in all the webs , this make the deck heaver than the gyro and also a different sound, more precise, that is why i have never commented on the pylons , i have left it to the owners to do that , this is the underside of the odyssey from the factory , you will notice it is in every part of the chassis , the webs have not been done , so i have added some Caravan Mastic None setting stuff , it looks exactly the same as the new white version cost is £9 for a lot off ebay , before and after, more was placed around the bearing in nearly evey web and around the arm and motor sides , this is still being done , there is no ring out of the chassis,

https://f9fwgw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mxnz2HIst6jHUIzfbbH1mqsL-R1lqF7s5vWSViBKU320JLTgbxD4yXfEVm0oAa4q28dqqGdFsk3 0NGVbcLvFXOs5qTuIWl674Gdm-WQddIUc8buafPmUUWsf5uxkIHpBXxGUm1q6XUTDV9mOWOSPYlx Nxm-L0elRKdtKzE_w3TJJH2e5E4GCQF9jBUZuTefNgvPKQUou8p0ma sJ8PEzf8rw?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none
https://ftfwgw.db.files.1drv.com/y4m3dJNnv2c8RtLMq411XjCgezVhs5eeMU8Sa_Fy7Yw0KYLB8S uV3Wgod6TbA1I_lr6lxM8y5zLbIwn6-I91E4EHIhALKH7piVFwJGNN4gzDREgEf2Ib5tKwPcJej8tXOTu 00vNMgxaVyK34AeolwLgVLPXGcC3wCvoSFI_Qc0qj9P10drozL skBgHM6waV6UdENYfRQ7BvDvT8ShGfVsDlNA?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

[TAD12]

I seem to remember doing something similar to a 401 platter back in the eighties. Oops showing my age !! But was with a liquid plastic compound, obviously just on the underside of the platter. I think I painted on three very thin layers. I don't suppose this stuff exists now. Appeared to deaden the response when struck with a screwdriver. Swapped it for a 60hz platter, before I moved to Canada. The 60hz platter just feels lighter than the 50 hz version. I'm open to suggestions as to how to proceed further with the Garrard platter, but that's probably for another thread. One could also use dense foam injection, but this would be irreversible. HMMM, not such a good idea then.

[Pegwill]

In the States they manufacture a product named ‘Mortite’ it is used for ceiling windows they call it caulking. You can find it on eBay but it is very expensive, it’s the postage costs. It is a very good dense damping material that is moulded and pressed into place. I have used it many times but I have not been able to find a product in the uk, that’s not to say there isn’t one, I’m sure there is I’m probably not looking in the right place. Any way it’s very good at dampening. I’ve used it dampening the inside of cases etc to stop them ringing. The best of it is it’s easy removable and leaves no marks
Hope this helps

[gwernaffield]

well the eBay caravan none setting mastic works a treat , adds a bit more weight , but helps in deadening the chassis more , Tad it will be the same on yours, this was why the Odyssey was a special , all the black stuff was factory fitted , i have just added to it with the white where the factory missed,now they say add to the web in the chassis so that is all i have done, i suppose you could fill the lot in you wanted too , The Gyro is Built to a price , were as the orbe is the top deck so it has this Denso damp the same as the odyssey , Bass is extended and tighter, the piano is in the room , the bass drum will have your skin jumping ,Phil Collins,Honey love , wow , it added a bit more, i also took the bearing out and put a small amount around that tightened back up until it all pushed back out but left a little bit on the mating faces, the bearing is true , it is very quiet now , it was before but now 101% ,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5m-length-roll-of-19mm-wide-caravan-white-mastic-tape-sealant-strip-sealer-TS1/173653283012?hash=item286e8ad0c4:g:2JkAAOSwtrtb9Xh n

[TAD12]

thanks so much, William. I'll be looking into it with my builder!

[gwernaffield]

who is william ?
pete

[TAD12]

User name Pegwill, the post before my previous one.

[gwernaffield]

yes i understand now, William is a good member who added the washer , to the top of the bearing , and to the Cheap upgrades :)

[AJSki2fly]

OK so after doing most of the known upgrades on this thread to my Gyrodec/Orbe which has made as I reported previously a great improvement in clarity, separation and detail I was still not happy by one particular aspect of the deck. This is basically down to the poor design of having the pylons screwed directly into the feet, which basically creates a direct coupling path to the chassis and bearing. A perfect way to transmit vibrations to the platter and arm. The one change on this thread I am waiting to do is to replace the feet with the rubber ones, however before I did this I wanted to confirm something for myself.

So this morning I got a marble chopping board out of the kitchen that we hardly ever use and it just happens to be the right size to sit a Gyrodec on top. I also took 4 sorbothane isolation semi-spherical feet that I already had and the result is below. By the way the four of them are the right consistency, you need to purchase 30 or 40mm diameter for the weight of the marble and TT, check the weight of your version Gyrodec, Gyrodec with Orbe platter, and Gyrodec or ORBE and also whether it is SE or not. This is important for the decoupling to work.

So the result is that bass is better defined, instruments have more clarity, the sound stage is clearer, this was very apparent on orchestral music as I can now pick out aspect of the orchestra clearly. I listened to several tracks I regularly use for test listening and in each case there is a significant improvement, in some case aspects of the mix I had not heard before I could now hear.

What is happening here IMO is that vibrations previously getting to the platter/cartridge have been lessened and so there is less colouration of what the stylus is picking up and hence better musical extraction from the groove and improved reproduction.

This definitely works and is IMO another big improvement, and for the cost is a no brainer, if you do not believe me give it a go.

The good news is the cost to do this is £20-25 with postage. If you do not like marble then you could try slate or a similar hard product, but each will have its own dampening properties and will have a resonant frequency of its own, which may have an effect on the end result, you just want dense and heavy.

I will be doing the rubber feet as well and I think that this will be the icing on the Gyrodec cake!

By the way the white bits hanging down from the marble are just the old feet and are not touching the acrylic shelf, I will remove these at some point.

https://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o708/AJSki2fly/fullsizeoutput_39a8_zpsoqoz0txw.jpeg


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Extra-Large-White-Marble-Polished-Worktop-Protector-Saver-Cutting-Chopping-Board/361171545390?hash=item5417806d2e:g:vu4AAOSwKfVXKfn N NOTE this is 30cm by 40cm, a larger one 30cm minimum by 45cm minimum would be better IMO.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SORBOTHANE-ANTI-VIBRATION-FEET-11-19-25-30-40-50mm-Turntables-Speakers-PCs/290971718688?hash=item43bf441420:m:mI8dBUCD6u3Uq_s CRn4HYyQ

[Pegwill]

Hi Guys

Continuing the theme of dampening the chassis. On my Gyrodec if I tap the chassis in the middle front with my finger nail and trying to use the same amount of force /pressure keep taping the chassis between the front pylons and listen to the note it’s quite high. I think that’s where the lead weight is it produces a distinctly higher note I can’t quite see where the lead weight is, the Dec needs to be in a better position. If you continue tapping every few militmetres as you move around the chassis the note goes lower. The lowest note being produced around where the motor fits. I suspect that where the arm fits will perhaps be the same but it’s quite difficult to get my big fingers in. I believe this could do with damping to try and get the same note all round. I will try and do this at the weekend.
It is such an easy thing to check you can even do it with a record playing.
Id love to hear your thoughts, should we really looking for the same note from anywhere on the chassis? Or is that going to kill the sound and make it lifeless. I was suprised just how different it sounded from front to back. My thoughts are it should be the same all round.

[AJSki2fly]

Hi Guys

Continuing the theme of dampening the chassis. On my Gyrodec if I tap the chassis in the middle front with my finger nail and trying to use the same amount of force /pressure keep taping the chassis between the front pylons and listen to the note it’s quite high. I think that’s where the lead weight is it produces a distinctly higher note I can’t quite see where the lead weight is, the Dec needs to be in a better position. If you continue tapping every few militmetres as you move around the chassis the note goes lower. The lowest note being produced around where the motor fits. I suspect that where the arm fits will perhaps be the same but it’s quite difficult to get my big fingers in. I believe this could do with damping to try and get the same note all round. I will try and do this at the weekend.
It is such an easy thing to check you can even do it with a record playing.
Id love to hear your thoughts, should we really looking for the same note from anywhere on the chassis? Or is that going to kill the sound and make it lifeless. I was suprised just how different it sounded from front to back. My thoughts are it should be the same all round.

The effect of put weight of lead or whatever it is around the chassis will be to create an isolated sections with different sonic properties, hence the different tonal sounds.

There are several things that can be done. Simplest and probably cheapest but not necessarily most effective IMO is fill the holes in with a heavy substance, like on the Orbe. Second is to remove the weights and then fill all the webbing in with a suitable heavy material, this is tricky as the weights are there to counterbalance the arm. IMO Finally throw the chassis away and make it out of a solid and dense material and probably without holes in the middle, if it is heavy enough it should overcome out of balance issues of the arm. It certainly should dampen any vibrational issue through it to some extent, obviously you would need to address the suspension issues with the additional weight, or it might be easier to forget about them and have it directly mounted on isolation feet carefully designed with vibration absorbing material, but by now you would have a new deck. [emoji2]

[gwernaffield]

hi bill the denso damp should help that , but i have seen a thread some where when the guy took the led weight off and then added the denso and put the weights back on , i think the design of the deck is that you will always get that microphone effect ,
after all every thing is connected to the chassis, Mr Moon and i are in the middle of finding out if we can use the rubber bobbins to put onto the chassis and then sit the arm board on them a bit like the old 3009 , that used rubber grommets and the bolts went through that ,
but we still think you will hear the microphone effect ,as it seems to get worse now as there is now where else for the vibration to go accept into the platter and picked up by the cartridge (microphone with a needle ) so the more you dampen one part the chassis the vibration needs to go some where else,
at this moment the chassis on the odyssey is fully dampened , which has made a difference , base has a bit more extension , along with the rest , but i think it is getting near that you just will lose all the musical feeling , to where a note is just a note, and the singer is just a singer with all the feeling kicked out , so for now the way the deck is i have no more to add,

[TAD12]

The only additional thing I can suggest is the tried and trusted Blutack. I use blobs of it to keep the feet from sliding. I have Sorbothane spheres supporting my Garrard 401 deck in its plinth. They do work. I have still to use the PTFE in between the cartridge and tonearm. I have slate flatbeds under my bass bins which are old REL 50's. I used 3cm thick slate slabs, they weigh a lot. I have a bamboo floor, with injected foam underlay, because it can go to Minus 40C here in Montreal during the winter!!!

The bins are mounted on spikes for good measure. I mentioned the spike feet in a previous note. I'll also try a blob of blutack in the spike recess to see if there's any improvement. Unfortunately it's one thing at a time. So granite base for the Odyssey first. ? Do I make it triangular or the same shape as the plastic base on which the odyssey frame sits. All comments welcomed.

Kind regards.

T.

[gwernaffield]

you would have to make the base the same thickness unless you are going to higher the motor housing , i looked into it but the cost was too much for me, and i like the fact i can close the lid to keep the dust off , instead i had 3 spare spiders and added them so now the base is 36mm and the top 2 spiders are 24mm , i had to add to the height of the motor with a bronze spacer and a bigger foot , it weighs 3kg , the microphone effect must be because the arm is bolted direct to the chassis, which we now no away around , ask Mr Moon , but if you have Granite lying around i would make it round , like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9jD6sx7oaQ
the deck is 30+ years old, and has had a round base made , so it looks new but the motor is AC and the rest is just an old Gyro with the gold caps, board etc

[Pegwill]

Interesting observations about dampening the chassis. Alineswith much my own thoughts. I also guess that the instructions for adding the denso tape in that don’t fill the chassis completely also reenforces this. I don’t have enough skill or knowledge to understand the note we should be aiming for for bestsound. I suppose it’s really called resononce.

In my own situation I have Michell supplied acrylic base and as you are aware the pylon supports go right through the acrylic to the feet. I happen to have 3 isolation feet that I used another turntable I think I got them from Origin. They are rubber topped that go into a point and sit on brass footers. I have placed them in the opposite formation to the existing feet. This has lifted the feet off of the wooden isolation shelf that I use. I have unscrewed the feet and applied some Mortite to the remaining exposed studs. Quick and easy. Does it make a difference? I think so, massive no. It strikes me that on my setup the biggest problem I’d say is the pylon studs go through the base and therefore are connected to big expanse of acrylic that could do with dampening. Better still would be to remove the the studs through the base not sure if that is possible and then use some form of isolation to decouple the chassis from the the acrylic. Not sure if it’s possible. I need to keep it within the lidto keep the dust of but should be possible with just putting minimal isolation under the chassis.

Anyway just my thoughts, I would like to understand the resonance thing but it’s probably very scenitific and would need some sophisticated measuring equipment. As I said in my previous post in the middle of the front pylons the note is higher than aoround where the motor sits.

I did read an article where it mentions putting a thin layer of blue tack between the lead and the chassis it did say whether or not it made a difference. Anyway subjective as always I guess.

[AJSki2fly]

Anyway just my thoughts, I would like to understand the resonance thing but it’s probably very scenitific and would need some sophisticated measuring equipment. As I said in my previous post in the middle of the front pylons the note is higher than aoround where the motor sits.

I did read an article where it mentions putting a thin layer of blue tack between the lead and the chassis it did say whether or not it made a difference. Anyway subjective as always I guess.

To accurately work out what is going on you need one of these. https://www.bksv.com/en/products/transducers/vibration/Vibration-transducers/accelerometers/4374 The potentiometer can measure vibrations from 1 to 26Khz and they are very accurate. So with the plater turning you would mount the potentiometer in different positions on the chassis and at each observe through an oscilloscope the resonant frequencies, you could record these to tape as well for referencing back to. Then with the knowledge of what frequencies were the issue you could make changes to the chassis with sound deadening materials or physically to the chassis and then re-measure and see what effect this had. This would be a gradual and time laborious process ultimately with the aim of limiting the resonances as much as possible and also any that remained to be lowered in dB as much as possible.

It can be done and I have done it many years ago on several different objects when I worked at a sound and vibration laboratory, but never on a turntable.

[Pegwill]

Hi ASJki2fly

Yep as I suspected quite a bit of money just for the potentiometer alone on eBay is £114.00. Would it be possible to compare the note as this converts into a frequency. I have a clip on guitar tuner that works on vibration that I will try, although it needs to be within that range. Do you have any idea of the frequency I should be looking for? Not sure if it will work but in theory there’s nothing lost especially when the whole essence of this thread is improvements on the cheap.

Many thanks

[AJSki2fly]

Hi ASJki2fly

Yep as I suspected quite a bit of money just for the potentiometer alone on eBay is £114.00. Would it be possible to compare the note as this converts into a frequency. I have a clip on guitar tuner that works on vibration that I will try, although it needs to be within that range. Do you have any idea of the frequency I should be looking for? Not sure if it will work but in theory there’s nothing lost especially when the whole essence of this thread is improvements on the cheap.

Many thanks

Hi William

I could not even guess the frequency without at least hearing it and my ears are not that well musically trained I am afraid, even though I used to play guitar.

If you have a computer and a microphone for it and a a recording of the note then you can analysis it using REW software that is free. I have used it to do some basic measurement of speakers and to experiment with their position in the room and also my listening position. I did briefly play around with soft furnishings and there effect on the reverberation/acoustics of the room.

Have fun,

Adrian

[gwernaffield]

have a look at this if you want to go further, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMART-SENSOR-Model-AS63A-LCD-Display-Digital-Vibration-Meter-Vibration-Analyzer/292973744362?epid=14029476992&hash=item44369890ea:g:kRUAAOSwhUpcbldH

[Pegwill]

I did a bit more research on this and just asi suspected it is a lot more complex. The resonant frequency would appear to be between 5 - 8hz so that instrument will not measure low enough. This is not worth pursuing because of the likely costs. I will have a look at putting some extra dampening as you would if using the the denso from Michell. One interesting observation I did pick up is that it is obvious if you think about it is that there is more weight on the arm side and so it will be always out of balance with and need levelling with the pylons. Also the resonance on that side will be different due to the increased mass. As I said far to complicated to contemplate.

[AJSki2fly]

have a look at this if you want to go further, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMART-SENSOR-Model-AS63A-LCD-Display-Digital-Vibration-Meter-Vibration-Analyzer/292973744362?epid=14029476992&hash=item44369890ea:g:kRUAAOSwhUpcbldH

I doubt it is sensitive enough for the levels I think we would want/need to detect.

[gwernaffield]

the max weight on the arm side is 1.1kg , including arm and board , it is weighted under the chassis to the front and to the motor side, all i did was add to what was there, in the webs , to every part of the chassis not to upset the balance for the arm
pete

[mad-moon]

I've found the best way, albeit long and drawn out, taking days, is to suck it and see. Trial and error. I try not to take much notice of measurements with testing equipment. The best thing you can use is your ears and tune your tt to your ears, what's best for your personal listening experience. I have just fitted three rubber mounts under the acrylic ring, which has worked wonders. My best listening exoerience to date. There is still a bit Microphony from the chassis, but nowhere near to what it was, but I have virtually no surface noise from the record, at sensible listening levels, even between tracks...I've changed the granite isloation platform for 10mm thick toughened glass..supported on half squash balls, filled with silicone and lead shot..which will shortly be replaced with Vibrapods. My pal Vince is using them and I was there today listening to his rig and it is outstanding.. The Vibrapods are the best isolation feet I have heard to date, without having to spend an absolute fortune..and at just under 22 quid a set are brilliant. If you decide to try these, You'll need to check out the weight of your gear, as there's 4 or 5 different models

[Pegwill]

Hi Guys

Well I had a play around today. Added some dampening around the arm pillar and the same on the motor side. I intended to add a thin layer under the lead, but I couldn’t seem to get it free. It seemed to be stuck on so I left it.

One thing I did notice is that when I put the pylons back in place they made a clunking sound as they made contact with the acrylic base. I happened to have some ptfe washers, not the exact size, but big enough to go 3/4 of the way round so I cut them and spread them out to fit. Then when I refitted the pylons to the post they are supported off the acrilic base by the washers reducing the clunking sound.
Does it help, not sure but it is only using the bearing at the top of the post and the ptfe washer at the bottom providing further decoupling which can only help.

[gwernaffield]

there should be 3 felt washers under pylons, the same as what came with the michell, i have replaced them with 3 sorbothane ones on my deck 22mm diameter with a 10mm hole x 3mm ,

[Pegwill]

Hi Peter

Yep I’ve got the felt rings but the pylons go straight through because the inside diameter is to big. The ptfe ones I using at present the pylon actually sits on it rather than passing through it and sitting on the acrilyc .

[gwernaffield]

Hi Bill can you send me a picture please i am a bit confused, the plyon sits into the chassis , not out , it should be flush well near enough with the under side of the chassis, can you send a pick to my email address, peter

[gwernaffield]

https://fncfjg.db.files.1drv.com/y4mOG9f4Wblsypu4WyC6scxKeqwUhUnz0Tkee6GtnKDxxzE112 wklpiuOOkLFawRJE1z2Hl1weT3OMgZTeTlXJNcFAwfDJ47Yik4 _CTRHnZEequRX0CourKbknZ5wRNPkj7x5P-mPvFdlNSReyECNnG9nyDBqhzFBB3SvYJ-uPVOuJBhY4mffEG0wIyVVj2IF0pP5BihyA5UYLhQvyW2lKeEA? width=371&height=660&cropmode=none

This is fitted wrong , it should be flush

[gwernaffield]

when fitted the o rings should just be above the felt washer , the only way you would get a 'Clunk 'is if you are pushing very hard on platter for the lp to sit pushing the o ring down onto the acrylic , the picture above show one pylon in a set of 3 that was not fitted properly due to the hole being smaller , it was an easy fix took 10minutes with a nail file and then the pylon fitted correctly ,

[mad-moon]

Hi Peter

Yep I’ve got the felt rings but the pylons go straight through because the inside diameter is to big. The ptfe ones I using at present the pylon actually sits on it rather than passing through it and sitting on the acrilyc .

The adjsuter tube through the centre of the pylon, is supposed to pass throught the felt washher, it doesn't sit on the acrylic spider...it will only go as low as the bearing allows it..and sits above the spider....The base itself fits inside the bottom hole cutout..and the upper step fits in the smaller hole higher up the base recess...if it's not going in, try rotating the pylons, till you get them all to fit...if they don't all fit....you will have to do a little bit of adjustment...which just means taking a very small amount from the diameter of the base...and or the step...with an emery board...or some wet and dry sand paper...just doing a bit at a time, till you get the three pylons to fit snugly in the bottom holes..with just the 0-rings visible maybe protruding approx 2mm below the lowest part of the chassis....The reason this sometimes happens, is the Michell Gyrodec turntables have a cast chassis...and can be slightly out on the positioning of the holes on the Chassis..It may only be by mm's or even just points of mm's..and Peter has designed these to very tight paramateres, to stop all movement in the deck, so we the owners can get the very best from our turntables..and boy does it work...My deck was ever so slightly out and Peter made a set for me...my measurement was ever so slightly out, so I took a piece of wet and dry paper and just took a small amount from the diameters of them, till I got them to fit nice and snug...the result is outstanding...

[AJSki2fly]

Very good explanation Mr Moon. I had exactly the same issue. I confirmed the inaccuracy in the hole positions by accurately measuring the centres of the holes in the chassis which should be an exact equilateral triangle(each side the same length). This is not easy to do, you need the exact hole diameter and then measure from hole to hole edge and then add the diameter. Mine were just over 1mm out on one side.

As you say I took a nail file emery board an filed away a bit at a time from the nut edge and the step side until I could see/feel enough movement. As I filed down I test fitted at least 3 times until it fitted with reasonable ease and was not sloppy fit. It took me about 30 minutes of gradual fettling and a bit of patience. It’s not hard to do.

The other thing to check is that the centres of the pylons are the same measurement as the centre of the chassis holes, because these could be slightly out as well. One of mine was as well on one side. So I rotated it to match the chassis as much as possible.

I found drawing a diagram of the chassis and the spider (you need to temporarily mark one corner) and writing down each measurement helped get it right and understand which one needed filling and by how much.

I hope this helps a bit more


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gwernaffield]

i did speak to michell about the hole sizes , and was advised to make them to the latest hole sizes 33.7 x 28mm but the problem with that was the chassis would be allowed to move, so they can only be made to the size given , as with most things it is not that easy, each hole will be a different size, so if the 34.7 to 35mm , and the 28.5 can be 28.1 to 28.9, but with all the added rubber pads and the added washer to the underside of the platter , also now the down force has gone from the springs , every thing is a bit taller , you may have problems with the acrylic lid, catching the top of the arm , the deck needs to be level , as you know the feet form part of the suspension on the gyro, so the deck must be sitting on them to level it properly , if you have put some
after market feet /anti vibration pads, feet , or any other support , you need to consider the height of the motor pod as well, to get the correct height of the belt , and not to try and to adjust it out with the suspension support ,
the adjuster is meant for the adjustment of the suspension to level the deck , with the pylon replacement you may run out of room for adjustment due to the length of the o-rings supplied, if you need smaller or longer let me know i will send some at cost and post ,
the bearing ball is 7/32 no bigger or smaller,
we have added to the height of the small shaft by adding the sorbothane, this will squash down to about 2mm , so a 2 mm pad must be added to the base of the motor pod , to maintain the belt height , if you use a heavy Puck this will stretch the o-rings and you will need to have smaller ones, to keep every thing at the correct height
i am always on line so if there is a problem it is sorted, but i cannot take into account every problem , adding and then tweaking will change the length of the o-rings needed, and is out of my control, as ever if you want your money back just email me and send them back i will refund as soon as they arrive back , less the cost of post , i am not a retail business all of these are made to the sizes given ,it is still a hobby ,
but i cannot cover any changes after they have been fitted , added spacers , added bit of sorbothane , added feet etc ,

[AJSki2fly]

Hi Guys

Well I had a play around today. Added some dampening around the arm pillar and the same on the motor side. I intended to add a thin layer under the lead, but I couldn’t seem to get it free. It seemed to be stuck on so I left it.

One thing I did notice is that when I put the pylons back in place they made a clunking sound as they made contact with the acrylic base. I happened to have some ptfe washers, not the exact size, but big enough to go 3/4 of the way round so I cut them and spread them out to fit. Then when I refitted the pylons to the post they are supported off the acrilic base by the washers reducing the clunking sound.
Does it help, not sure but it is only using the bearing at the top of the post and the ptfe washer at the bottom providing further decoupling which can only help.

William,

The pylons that slide onto the pylon towers do not touch the acrylic base, that is certainly the case with the correct ball bearings in place that the pylons slide onto, in the original set up they actually sit about .25mm above the acrylic. My understanding is that you have put some rubber/sorbothane between these bearings and the pylons so with the ball bearings in place it would have raised them higher away form the acrylic. Are you sure you have not lost the ball bearings out from the pylons? Are you also sure that you have not not raised the chassis so high that the plinth is not touching the arm if you close it and causing a clunk?

I understand from Pete that you have a washer under the platter and can not now fit the nut, the nut must be on or you will have trerrible issues with the platter wobbling about which will be problematic in its on right. Also you may have raised the platter so much as to cause issues with belt alignment.

Also note if you have raised the pylons too high you will loose adjustment allowing the chassis to come down low enough to be able to align the belt correctly in any case.

My advice is to strip the deck down.

1. Remove anything you have added to the pylons, rubber or other wise and fit the original ball bearings only to each pylons and then fit each one and see it they clear the acrylic, I will be very surprised it they do not. If that is ok fit your replacement ceramic balls in each and check again, if you have the right ones there should be no difference. If that is OK then add the sorborthane pad/rubber on top of the pylon tower and then fit the pylon slider over it with the ball bearing. I personally would not put anything more that this between the ball bearing in the pylon or you are likely to raise it too high and loose sufficient adjustment on the thread.

2. If all of 1 above is OK then fit the felt washers so that they sit on the acrylic, then fit the new pylon suspension from Pete to the towers and wind them down so that they are near the bottom of the pylon threads, now fit the chassis and check they each move freely up and down and that each bottom nut fitted is flush to the bottom of the chassis.

3. Fit your platter without any washer between the bearing and platter and do up the platter retaining nut. Now adjust the height of each pylon so that each is about 1-2mm above the felt pads, check the platter is perfectly level using a spirit level, you should be able to do so with the pylon adjustment on the nuts and everything should still be able to move up and down.

4. Finally you now need to check the height of your motor spindle is correct, as I understand it you have alternative feet which the whole thing sits on which has slightly raised it off the original feet. So accurately measure the distance between your shelf and the original feet. I suggest you get some 1mm thick slivers of plastic and see how many will fit in the gap and then use feeler gauges for the last bit. Note down this measurement Xmm.

5. So you now need to raise the drive motor Hmm, this will be by where Hmm = Xmm + Ymm, where Y equals the amount you have additionally raised the towers with by placing sorbothane/rubber between them and the ball bearing in the tower tops. So if you used 3 mm of sorbothane with the weight on them they will eat probably compress by 1-1.5mm. If it is a harder rubber then it will be close to the thickness of the rubber you have used. So having the Hmm measurement you can now create a pad to put under your motor together it to the correct height.

Everything should now work fine.

If you do subsequently put anything between the bearing and the platter then it needs to be very thin and allow you to do the nut up and whatever the thickness it is you need to add to the Hmm measurement.

If you take your time and do everything carefully it should all be fine. If you have any issues getting the new bottom nuts to fit flush or if you find the pylons are sticking, as previously mentioned in this thread, then the holes in the chassis are not an exact equilateral triangle and/or the pylon centres to not match then properly. If this is the case then the bottom nuts will need minor adjustment to accommodate this. If this is the case then you need to speak with Pete, there are several ways to fix this.

I hope this helps you sort your issues out.

Regards

Adrian

[Pegwill]

Hi AJSki2fly

Thanks for the info. I won’t be able to check until next weekend. Like you I suspect something is amiss. I removed the rubber, so the possibility that the bearings have fallen out is a possibility, I wasn’t sure that it was making any difference. Anyway i’ll find out next week.

Regarding the washer on top of the bearing, yes I do plan to find a thinner one, I have not detected any problem with the locking missing, yes true enough, the very edge does wobble if you touch it with your hand but when the record is playing there’s no difference that I can tell.

I’ll let you know how I get on.

[Steve Allen]

Hi Peter,
I'm a new member of the forum, however, I have been following your posts on the design of the pylons with great interest.
I own a Gyrodec (Export Model) which I purchased new in 1989.
For some time, I have been considering up-grading the Adjuster and replacing the springs with the standard offering from Michell.
The benefits being the two piece Adjuster, and replacing some rather tired springs, which would have provided an improvement.
Being somewhat curious I searched the Net and noticed the Solid Air pylons, I thought they were rather expensive, and like you, felt they would offer even less lateral control than the existing spring arrangement, and then I came across your design.
Now that you have ironed out all the problems, and gone as far as you could reasonably expect to go, I would be very interested in purchasing the 'kit' of parts you are offering.
The only part of the 'kit' I would not be interested in is the ceramic ball for the spindle main bearing.
Please could you provide me with price details, delivery times, and any measurements you require.

[gwernaffield]

hello Steve i have sent Pm ,
please any one who wants me just pm me do not leave messages on here as it is not an advert , it is a thread for cheap ( affordable ) upgrades to the Gyro or Orbe,,, it is not my own personal thread it is for every one on AOS ,to add too, even how to repair the paint on the chassis would be welcome,as i have taken several chips out of mine doing the upgrades adjusting parts etc and a lot of swear words involved , so if any one know how to repair the paint with out it costing the same as Michell please
let us all into the secret ,

[AJSki2fly]

So yesterday the Skateboard Wheels arrived form China at the expensive cost of £12.50, the rubber inserts and 3mm Sorbothane had already arrived costing another £14 together.

So initially I cut the rubber bobbins in half with a stanley knife, each half then fits in the hole in either side of the skateboard wheel. I then opened up the hole in one of the rubber bobbins using a 1/2" drill bit. You do not need to open it to much just enough so that the threaded part that you have unscrewed the foot from will screw into the rubber.

I stripped the Gyrodec and carefully removed the metal feet and then screwed each new foot on. I then checked to see that the spider was level.

Next I cut 3 circle of the 3mm sorbothane sheet the same size as the rubber bobbins and then affixed these in place with a small amount of super glue. The feet are then supported by sorbothane and then rubber, which makes good vibration isolation and also will stop the feet sliding around.

Next was a simple mater to refit the pylons suspension towers and fit the chassis back, I then put it back on the shelf and fitted the platter, making sure I got it in the exact position I want it. I then carefully adjust the pylon height to ensure the bottom of the chassis was 1-2mm off the felt washers and checked the platter was perfectly level. Next was refit the cartridge and check platter speed.

Note - I decided to remove my previously installed marble slab on sorbothane feet as I wanted to see how effective the new feet are on their own.

So I put on and listened carefully to several of my test tracks and my conclusion is that the feet are virtually as good as using the Gyrodec with original feet sat on the marble isolation pad.So and excellent result.

I also found a couple of free accelerometer apps for the iPhone and took some measurements. Firstly I place the iphone on the acrylic shelf and played a track that has quite a bit of bass and low end drum content. I then repeated this with the iPhone place on the platter, but I played the same music from a digital file, I also checked it was at the same volume. The results are interesting vibration in the x and y axis is virtually non-existent and in the z (up and down) there is a small amount of movement(vibration). If you compare the shelf values to the platter values and take one away from the other the vertical movement is roughly halved, so the new feet are doing their job. I wish I had taken measurements before stripping it down:doh:

I have one further thought to improve naming even further and that is to get 3 25mm semi-circular sorbothane feet and cut them down so that they fit into the bottom hole of the skateboard wheels instead of the rubber and 3mm sorbothane pad, I am certain this will give even better results. I am in the process of coming up with a simple and cheap tool to cut the circular size of sorbothane needed, this will then be trimmed in height so that a small amount protrudes below the skateboard foot ensuring that there is enough so that the skateboard foot does not touch the shelf.

https://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o708/AJSki2fly/IMG_0785_zpscopmawcx.jpg

http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o708/AJSki2fly/IMG_0786_zpstrcavcmb.jpg

http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o708/AJSki2fly/IMG_0787_zps62bprpnt.jpg

[gwernaffield]

looking good ,

[AJSki2fly]

looking good ,

Thanks Pete, still a few things to do, more arm board isolatio, waiting for rubber bushes, rubber to support the motor inside, and try out and test my mod for the new feet, and fit the sorbothane discs on the pylons.

It seems never ending, but each little change seems to make a difference and so far its getting better, a bit change from the original sound. IMO opinion the biggest change has been due to your lovely pylon suspension and then the replacement of the metal feet.

[mad-moon]

Thanks Pete, still a few things to do, more arm board isolatio, waiting for rubber bushes, rubber to support the motor inside, and try out and test my mod for the new feet, and fit the sorbothane discs on the pylons.

It seems never ending, but each little change seems to make a difference and so far its getting better, a bit change from the original sound. IMO opinion the biggest change has been due to your lovely pylon suspension and then the replacement of the metal feet.

Looking at your toneam..it looks to have the same issue as mine...it's flying in space....another inexpensive tweak, which takes little effort...is to put the rubber mounts under your acrylic spacer....which will allow you to bring your arm right down into the clamp...it has made a huge differencce with mine regards record surface noise...If you don't fancy the mounts, you could always put the three delrin posts back in..under the acrylic spacer/mount....

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7880/46617467734_f04a4ac2fc_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2e2qH2G)MOUNTS DISC (https://flic.kr/p/2e2qH2G) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

[AJSki2fly]

Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
Thanks Pete, still a few things to do, more arm board isolatio, waiting for rubber bushes, rubber to support the motor inside, and try out and test my mod for the new feet, and fit the sorbothane discs on the pylons.

Looking at your toneam..it looks to have the same issue as mine...it's flying in space....another inexpensive tweak, which takes little effort...is to put the rubber mounts under your acrylic spacer....which will allow you to bring your arm right down into the clamp...it has made a huge differencce with mine regards record surface noise...If you don't fancy the mounts, you could always put the three delrin posts back in..under the acrylic spacer/mount....

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7880/46617467734_f04a4ac2fc_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2e2qH2G)MOUNTS DISC (https://flic.kr/p/2e2qH2G) by alan moon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145382488@N02/), on Flickr

I have been waiting to do this after addressing the TT isolation as much as I believe is possible, then will fit the rubber bushes under the acrylic arm spacer mounting plate so that I can then know what difference the rubbers make. I like to make incremental changes.

By the way my understanding is that how the arm is fixed to a TT can have quite a dramatic impact on how it all sounds. Arms I believe are mainly designed to take vibration away from the head shell/cartridge, so if you mount it in a way that effects this it could have a positive or negative affect. Some arms I believe actually need to be mounted rigidly to the TT chassis, if you look at an SME TT with SME arm it is mounted rock solid, but then the SME chassis is a dirty great big heavy lump of laminated steel and aluminium designed to not vibrate. Unfortunately this is not the case with the Gyrodec or Orbe chassis so we are effectively trying to limit any vibration transmission into the arm mount, how good any change in mounting will be and what affect it may have on the arm I am not clear about in my mind. So for me I think I will have to rely on what I hear.

[gwernaffield]

just bought the doughnut seals, now called Motor Supports , which will need to be cut to fit the tube, and add a bit of silicone grease to help them fit into the motor tube after cutting to make them fit the motor pod the motor will sit in the lip
in the base of the Motor Support it will be a tight fit , used on DC motor , as i do not have a AC one i am concerned that they may give off heat ,
pete

[TAD12]

hi there Pete, do you remember the damping material for the headshell/arm contact area, which we discussed. Have you ever thought of making stacking washers out of this material for the armboard to replace the rubber ones. I would like to try this out. Am I wasting my time???
Kind regards,
Tadeusz.

[gwernaffield]

hi tad you might end up back to were you started, the arm board is supported by 3 delrin spacers from the factory , i now longer have the techno arm to try your suggestion , also if i remember the arm board is thicker for the rega techno arm ,
due to the weight differences in the sme arm , max weight according to Michell Jonathan Nye was 1.1kg or around that weight , the material i use on the arm for a cartridge isolation is PTFE about 1mm thick , cut to shape, .
The Bobbins now being used to support the arm board decouple the chassis , where the spacers do not , the New Michell design ones are delrin with a o ring in the top, it does sort of work , but do not expect masses of difference as the arm board is sill held ridged to the chassis
The thinking behind the rubber bobbins , is the sme 3009 is screwed to the deck Via Rubber grommets,so i just looked at the anti vibration bobbins as an extension to that , MR Moon confirmed what i had thought may happen , just he had bought his from the uk , and i bought mine from my favorite shopping channel China, cheaper but you have to wait , and i am still waiting ,

kind regards
pete

[AJSki2fly]

hi there Pete, do you remember the damping material for the headshell/arm contact area, which we discussed. Have you ever thought of making stacking washers out of this material for the armboard to replace the rubber ones. I would like to try this out. Am I wasting my time???
Kind regards,
Tadeusz.

This would be too soft and would crush up and any effect would be lost. Best to use a silicone rubber washer about 1 to 2mm thick top and bottom, or as some have done and I an about to do try is replacing the arm board mounts (metal or delrin) with 10mm rubber bushes, you need M5 threads one male and female in each end, these are available on Ebay quite cheaply.

[TAD12]

thanks so much guys. the Odyssey still continues to surprise with the detail which can be extracted off a vinyl disc. Kind regards. T.

[gwernaffield]

just added the bobbins to the deck , the ones i received seemed a bit soft ,so i have added 3 delrin ones in the mix , under the arm board , until i can get 3 more bobbins female to female , to do the same job what i was not expecting was the shear force now in the music , every thing and i mean every thing has more depth , the bass was the immediate i could hear and feel as if you were at the gig ,after having HIFi for 40 years , orbes .lp12 , could not keep up with this deck now, the force and feel will blow you away , all the depth and stereo imaging came to life ,

https://edcfjg.db.files.1drv.com/y4mvKJjFaOYfd7G-OVTRklN82AuXmK0aGO4oNPdhWSyIpoVckY8tkHsHqyKSfHr96I jTeefzP_auHa-vIAb4SiSoR26aYdH10K4yKFM6vpvG7Auh1AQAdtj32W1eABaU0 TS3ti3ye9rg9eszODO9S24FE_xDrH1gryN1SOfH1ZgasbaCpNh 2MR38ZghEc2hyNya-Ggkx9yhsQ8cOvstMuD7cw?width=660&height=495&cropmode=none

[AJSki2fly]

Well that sounds really promising, my rubber bobbins should arrive soon so I will be very interested to hear the result.

[Pegwill]

Hi Guys

Well I stripped it down again. The pylon supports measure from the acrylic base to the top of the support 28mm - the pylons measure inside depth 28.5 ( no proper depth gauge) and yes they do rest on the acrylic base. So I inserted a little bit of of rubber that lifted the the pylons off the acrylic base. So now the bearing should be supporting the pylons. I cheched the bearing with the original and they were the same size. All I can say is another manufacturing inconstancy, but sorted now.
My acrylic base is a cover supplied by Michell when I bought the gyro, so perhaps they out source them. Anyway pylons are sitting above the base so alls fine.

Regards to all.

[Simes_pep]

So what’s the current preference for bearing thrust ball & suspension posts?
I have 4 Delrin & a packet of Ceramic Si3N4 bearing balls ready to try, but where do I start?

Have a set of Solid Air Pylons to try as well, bought at Christmas time, but was busy.

My Orbe is a 2000 model, with AC Motor & QC Controller. SME V now with Lyra Skala, into Bakoon EQA-R
I applied the Pedersen Armboard about 10 years
Was focused on getting Digital done well, and now back to Vinyl frontend.

So where are people at?

Simon

[gwernaffield]

read the posting , the orbe bearing used the ceramic uses alumiu oxide, ball , unless you have the feet to go with the string and wood they will not work as they are part 2 of his upgrade path not my words but his,
, you can use the ceramic ones in the pylon tubes, or the delrin , you will have to ask some one else about the string and wood pylon , i will not comment LOL

petehttps://c9dvdw.db.files.1drv.com/y4m8vlqyXTctmJZXXLKBeBBS5rCx-wfylZRafD9djytoUfskn5PP0DQfHAr24F4mhUT_kFqKtqrEBmK lMEWk01S-wzv4guWcnj1pHNDzKX5h2wRnaGzv2ePYt8usj2YDsktmnLo6Mk 2TgK4pFKa-oDTPdXouyn0zOLuYCkfrEX_nt4MHc-WcaeCcH5n9O_VqGKOnjFOnpRHggZkqjT31Rx5JQ?width=660&height=440&cropmode=none

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need i say more