A&R (Arcam) Cambridge C200 Control Unit (Pre-amplifier)

[kininigin]

I have the chance to get one for £105.

Does anyone have any experience with this pre-amp?

At the moment im useing the beresford dac as a pre-amp into active speakers

and im wondering if a seperate pre-amp would be better.

How good is the pre-amp section in the dac compared to a s/h pre at about the same cost as the dac?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Darren.

[DSJR]

This one has a sound - smooth and slightly slugged (rather than oldie-valve-softness). Arcam can't replace the volume/balance control if it's shagged and the later ones got better but I don't know from what serial number...

I saw one on fleabay for £80 for weeks and weeks a year or two back and pondered it myself. The general opinion is that the matching power amp was really good (forerunner to the big Myryads) but the preamp sucked a bit..

If you buy it, I'll scan the HiFi Choice review on the pair. At least it'll give you basic specs..

You know, these days and with the support network out there, I'd sooner have a Quad 33 instead - there are several ways of using digital sources with it and Net Audio can supply new modified boards to replace the tired originals. You can even get the thing professionally re-sprayed if you need to..

[hifi_dave]

I think I'd rather have a Quad 33 myself, even if just for the looks. Back in the day we struggled to sell the C200 and it's matching power-amp as the A60 sounded better to most folk at a fraction of the cost. The first two C200's we had made great radio receivers and this was never satisfactorily resolved. I'd say you might get better for the money.

[kininigin]

Maybe bit of a backward step for the arcam by the sounds of it.

I looked at a few quad 33's but was unsure about connections so shall look at the net audio site you mention.

Ideally i would like a valve pre,but funds are very tight at the moment so looking at quite a few options.I heard you can use a headphone amp as a pre amp,whether this is feasible i have no idea,not sure if something designed to drive headphones will work with active speakers(this could be complete nonsense so excuse my ignorance).

[hifi_dave]

The Quad 33 isn't the easiest of pre's to use as it is all DIN connections. The 34 pre which came after might be a better choice as it is phono and still has the funky, retro look.

[DSJR]

I don't like the 34 much - it's a bit limp wristed in dynamics IMO. The C200 was DIN for most of it as well IIRC...

Don't get me wrong, but preamps were amongst the last parts of a two-part amp to be seriously gone into...

[Rare Bird]

I wasnt fussed about the 'C200'..The 'SA150' & 'SA200' were good power amps..

[DSJR]

Like I said, C200 got better, the designer had a professional disagreement with his business partner and left, spending some years at NAD's UK design facility before setting up Myryad in the mid 90's (some of you may regard the MI120 integrated as a very good integrated a significant cut above the Audiolabs etc).

As for Arcam, their products went a little sharper in tone for a while. Andre, they imported Audioquest for a number of years and the two brands together worked just fine.......

[Rare Bird]

Nay dave my Audiquests & C200 didnt work..

[DSJR]

Sorry, POST C200.......

I suspect the C200/Audiquest was boring and rolled off in the extreme....;) That's how I imagine it anyway..

The early CD players always sounded better to me with the "Quartz" interconnect at least..

[Rare Bird]

Very boring Dave, you often see these go on ebay for next to nothing..I tried the original Musical Fidelity Pre in it's place with the SA200 was a better improvement but the MF wernt that great, but proved a point in my case.

[kininigin]

Any other pre amps worth considering for about £150.

Can you get class t pre amps?

[Rare Bird]

Class 'D' Pre amp!!

Tapco S8 Active are Mackie monitors, is this system not for the hi-fi?

[kininigin]

Class 'D' Pre amp!!

Tapco S8 Active are Mackie monitors, is this system not for the hi-fi?

Yes i know they are mackie monitors i own them :ner:

I wanted some active speakers to try out.I got these cheap and thought if i didn't like them i wouldn't lose much(if any) money on them.

You can get Class t intergrated amps i wondered if you can get pre amps as well.

Im not entirely sure what you mean,the system i have is what i use to listen to music and any purchase's would be added to this system :scratch:

[Ali Tait]

You could get a Chinese valve pre for that on ebay.

[Rare Bird]

You can get Class t intergrated amps i wondered if you can get pre amps as well.




No such thing as a Class T ..The tricky thing is your asking on a specialised hi-fi forum about a recommendation to suite a technically non hi-fi monitor!

[Ali Tait]

This mght be worth a punt-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Xiang-Sheng-728A-Vacuum-Valve-Stereo-Tube-Pre-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ270519468186QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers?has h=item3efc37809a

[kininigin]

Ok technically there class d i was just trying to point out the use of a tripath chip in a pre amp,but i understand your point.

As for the speakers im not asking for any recommendations on that front im after a pre amp.

I just read your post againand see what you mean about recommending something for a non hi-fi monitor.

Basically im happy with the sound i just want to add a bit of warmth to it.I thought a pre amp would be the way to go(i could do with a phono stage aswell).

[Rare Bird]

you mentioned tube pre further back..What about the original Croft micro? Rose 'RV23S'? dunno what they go for tho

[kininigin]

You could get a Chinese valve pre for that on ebay.

I'll have a look on there cheers ali.

[kininigin]

you mentioned tube pre further back..What about the original Croft micro? Rose 'RV23S'? dunno what they go for tho

Sounds interesting,i dont know much about tube amps but have read on here about other people's use of them and it's a route i would like to go down.

Would a croft micro be hard to find?

Im not sure about the chinese tube amps.I know there made in china and therefore cheap but i still wonder about the quality and safety of them.

[kininigin]

The more i read about the croft products the more i want one.

[Ali Tait]

A lot of Chinese stuff is poorly made,but not all.I've had two valve amps,one of which I still have.Both still work perfectly.If you check out that link,that pre looks pretty well made.I haven't heard one,but it's a cheap way to try the valve sound.It could be easily upgraded by changing the valves for decent nos.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Firestone Audio - Tube Head pre amp

http://www.firestone-audio.eu/shop/products/allproductslisted/tubehead.php

you might find a second hand one for £100... i did ages ago, bt sold it in the end

[Rare Bird]

A lot of Chinese stuff is poorly made,but not all.I've had two valve amps,one of which I still have.Both still work perfectly.If you check out that link,that pre looks pretty well made.I haven't heard one,but it's a cheap way to try the valve sound.It could be easily upgraded by changing the valves for decent nos.

A large majority is junk though Al. Although the Maverick 'D1' Pre/DAC/Headphone amp i use sounds superb, the headphone output buzzed till i cut the gain down on the output, other than that it's fine, no doubt the mains transformer will pack up in due coarse as even though they claim UK voltage they arnt.Chinese importers are good at telling pork pies see.

[Ali Tait]

Yep,but not all! Take a look at the innards of a Mr Liang 845 if you can.41kg and the pcb's are as good as anythng I've seen.I sold this on and it must be 5 years old or more.Still working perfectly.Also the 813 I use now.Bought secondhand.Dunno how old it is,and used 5-7 hours a day on average.Never let me down.As for that preamp link,I don't know how it will sound,but it looks well laid out and tidily made.Case looks ok too.May be crap,may be surprisingly good,only one way to find out! I seem to read a lot of people on the net dissing Chinese stuff,most probably have never bought any,so how can they know? They are just echoing other's opinions.At least I'm speaking from personal experience!

[DSJR]

Cheap preamps worth looking for are the Musical Fidelity XP100 from the late nineties - a sensible non Nuvistor version with similar circuit and sound. Shouldn't be too expensive and is easily "boutiqueable" if you wish to.

The first generation Cyrus preamp was good as I remember, with or without the extra power supply. the later ones went to surface mount componentry, but I nearly bought the early one - reasonably high input impedance and lowish output impedance too.

IF you can find an early Croft Micro at this price, grab it. It's a bit raw, with hums and hisses on the ones I used, but Glenn can work wonders with it and I reckon he'd be able to refine it into a very good and utterly charming "modern" preamp later..

AVI preamps are very good IMO. The early S2000 model sounded very Croft like when I bought mine and they sometimes sell for around £200. later ones like my current one can fetch more, but still preferable to a Quad 44 by a long way, despite the latter fetching up to £300 these days...

I can't think of any other good preamps at this sort of price that won't swamp the signal with their own "colour" and lack of detail. nakamichi made the CA5 (yuck!) and the CA7 (very much better) and these are so unknown they might be very cheap now - beautifully made and with decent components inside.

[Rare Bird]

Dave you remember the Rose Indusries RV23S! was a great pre wish i'd kept mine.

[hifi_dave]

We had that for a while. Nicely made but in comparison to the Croft Micro was a bit shut in and sluggish. I've got a feeling they are still around somewhere.

[DSJR]

I knew of the Rose but never had any experience of it Andre.

I don't mean to keep shilling for Glenn, but his products are not marketed for mega profit as most others are. The Micro could have (and still could be) been double the retail price and still be competitive - sometimes you have to inflate the price for the products to be taken notice of in foreign markets like Hong kong for example. I understand that Tron and now EAR are priced high to maintain the foreign presence and to stop wealthy bargain hunters buying cheaper here and shipping to their home country.

One preamp which deserved respect for its design was the Levinson ML28 (am I right Dave W?). Fully balanced from input to outout and using very carefully selected components to enable the technology to work and beautifully built, these pre's still fetch up to a grand or so. Apart from the EAR designs from the early nineties, there really aren't many preamps truly better than Glenn's more elaborate designs (Mega Micro, Marco's era Epoch and current Series 25 "R," which seems to be an update on mine with more sophisticated line stage and twin transformers in the case).

I certainly don't regard any preamps by Linn or Naim as competition to Croft, as the only ones that compare in sound are thousands of pounds more expensive (52 at least from Naim and possibly the Klimax Kontrol).

[Macca]

At £350 you cannot fault the Croft Micro in any respect and I suspect it would be a great match for the Mackies; will take some of the hard edge of them as it is very smooth sounding. Plus you can use one of those old fashioned 'record players' through it as well...

[DSJR]

The only question I have is about interconnect length. I'd respectfully suggest you don't have more than 3 or 4 metres of cable betwixt pre and speakers. Choose a low capacitance cable as well. I suspect the mark grant HD would be worth its weight in gold here in this application... Glenn may be able to tell you how well the basic micro will do driving long interconnects, as the line stage is kept simple.

[kininigin]

[QUOTE=DSJR;96870]The only question I have is about interconnect length. I'd respectfully suggest you don't have more than 3 or 4 metres of cable betwixt pre and speakers. Choose a low capacitance cable as well. I suspect the mark grant HD would be worth its weight in gold here in this application... Glenn may be able to tell you how well the basic micro will do driving long interconnects, as the line stage is kept simple.[/QUOTE

The MG's i use now are 1 1/2m the max i would need is 2m.Im using the
£20 version are these low capacitance?

Thanks for the input guy's i think the best bet is to get
some extra money first as £150 is limiting my choice
and an extra couple of hundred(for a croft:eyebrows:) would be a better choice,Unless i see a good bargain of course...i do love a good bargain