View Full Version : Massive Fire in London
Spectral Morn
14-06-2017, 06:40
Last night at one am a fire broke out in a 27 story tower block, it went up very quickly. The footage on TV and reports are horrific.
Witness are saying that recently applied plastic cladding may have aided the fire to spread rapidly.
The footage is truly awful to see, and the death toll I hope and pray isn't high but if not it will be a miracle.
There are people trapped, pray for them, the emergency services, for all involved.
chris@panteg
14-06-2017, 07:03
Horrendous, families were trapped, I fear the worst, this is horrific.
Yup, truly dreadful. I hope they can save as many people as possible.
Marco.
I often think the fire brigade need big fire proof inflatables they can deploy rapidly around the building. Then people can jump and live. Or at least some can.
walpurgis
14-06-2017, 08:34
This is about ten miles from me. If I was high enough, I'd see the smoke.
It's very bad. 120 flats in the block and it looks as though only lower floors were evacuated. The casualties will be well in the hundreds.
Truly shocking. The speed at which it took hold seems to be as a result of the recent cladding, although it also seems that concerns over fire risks were raised before.
walpurgis
14-06-2017, 09:23
I wonder what the occupants of the other four similar adjacent tower blocks are thinking. They will have seen it all happen!
I wonder what the occupants of the other four similar adjacent tower blocks are thinking. They will have seen it all happen!
they wont sleep well anyway. There will need to be an urgent review of the risks of it happening again. Finding the cause is going to be key
Spectral Morn
14-06-2017, 09:28
If anyone is local, please take clothing, food and water to the local church, they are organising a collection.
A disaster waiting to happen, it would seem. This was written last November:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCQcDSIW0AIfxZ8?format=jpg&name=large
Spectral Morn
14-06-2017, 10:10
Link to centres offering help and aid - http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/how-to-help-those-affected-by-the-grenfell-tower-fire-in-london-6707464/
walpurgis
14-06-2017, 10:22
Khan says "questions need to be answered". http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-14/sadiq-khan-says-questions-need-to-be-answered-over-london-tower-block-blaze/
Questions that should already have been asked and answered.
Like why there is no means of dealing with fires in high rise buildings. Why the alarm system didn't operate? Why the single and only one way out was unsafe. Why flammable exterior cladding was chosen and recently installed? (a backhander or two behind that no doubt).
Watching the footage shows the cladding ablaze and taking the fire up the structure.
.
walpurgis
14-06-2017, 10:29
The building has been declared 'structurally safe'. Rubbish! I know how fire affects buildings. That much sustained heat and with the undoubtedly high temperatures, will have blown and cracked much of the structural concrete. The reinforcing rods will have softened and lost much tensile strength and the steel girder and beam framework will have been similarly damaged. I would not wish to be the engineer stated the building was 'safe'. That'll come back and bite him (or her).
Spectral Morn
14-06-2017, 10:41
I just want to commend Victoria Derbyshire's coverage earlier on the BBC, very human, full of compassion. At one point she hugged a man recounting his story - very moving.
The building has been declared 'structurally safe'. Rubbish! I know how fire affects buildings. That much sustained heat and with the undoubtedly high temperatures, will have blown and cracked much of the structural concrete. The reinforcing rods will have softened and lost much tensile strength and the steel girder and beam framework will have been similarly damaged. I would not wish to be the engineer stated the building was 'safe'. That'll come back and bite him (or her).
Seems a bit soon to be saying it is safe. Media getting it wrong again?
Damage to concrete and steel will depend on the heat of the fire - that was an issue on 9/11 because of the aviation fuel. Furniture etc burning is nothing like as hot a fire.
I just want to commend Victoria Derbyshire's coverage earlier on the BBC, very human, full of compassion. At one point she hugged a man recounting his story - very moving.
+1
walpurgis
14-06-2017, 13:35
I wouldn't want to be living in the other similar blocks. Horrible thought, but to state the glaringly obvious, terrorists looking for easy targets will have spotted this. A petrol bomb would probably be all it takes for a repeat.
The owner deserves to get prosecuted for this, and I highly doubt that their insurance will cover anything due to their negligence. People have been complaining about the fire risks for years.
walpurgis
14-06-2017, 14:15
The owner deserves to get prosecuted for this
The owner is the local council I believe.
The owner is the local council I believe.
I think it was built by the council, but Rydon are the owners.
walpurgis
14-06-2017, 15:35
I think it was built by the council, but Rydon are the owners.
Rydon are a civil engineering and construction company and did the recent renovation.
http://i67.tinypic.com/5peflu.png
Cheers Geoff, hmm, in which case I expect the council to be handing Rydon a lawsuit very soon.
walpurgis
14-06-2017, 15:59
Cheers Geoff, hmm, in which case I expect the council to be handing Rydon a lawsuit very soon.
Unlikely. Rydon would have tendered for the renovation. The spec would have been determined by the council or their consultant architect. This service could of course have been provided by Rydon, but the council would have been responsible for agreeing it. This could all get very messy from the accountabilty point of view. The fire service and presumably the HSE will hold enquiries. The governement may even set up their own.
Something negligent has gone on for the building to have gone up like that.
much depends on what started it. could have been vandals, someones flat going up, or most likely an electrical fault. the fact the dry mains wasnt working is potentially a negligent act
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-cladding-fire-cause-improve-kensington-block-flats-appearance-blaze-24-storey-west-a7789951.html
This is negligent if true.
walpurgis
14-06-2017, 16:17
The number of casualities can't be predicted nor is it likely to be known in total. The nominal occupancy of each flat will not be the actual figure. There would have been numbers of 'unofficial' lodgers renting beds in many of the flats. These may well have been migrants and even illegal immigrants who would not be reported missing.
12 dead at moment.. I can imagine councils all over will be checking their stock of flats to see if they used similar stuff.
You would think that with the H&S obsession in this country that this sort of thing would be impossible especially in a newly-renovated block where you'd expect all fire prevention and retardant measures would be bang up to date. Sadly the obsession only goes as far as ticking boxes on forms to ensure if something bad happens the buck stops nowhere.
There s speculation that it may have been caused by a fridge exploding. Heard an eyewitness saying on lbc this morning that he actually
spoke to the owner of the flat where the fire started, and thats what the man stated. Though of course that is speculation at this point.
Nothing worse than fire.Poor souls!
southall-1998
14-06-2017, 17:58
Jesus fecking wept!! I was born in West London, but came from the Southall/Hanwell side. Hearing this news does sadden me, deep inside!
S.
walpurgis
15-06-2017, 09:11
As has been indicated in the news, the search and inspection of Grenfell Tower will take weeks.
Once the fire is totally extinguished and residual heat has subsided sufficiently to allow access, they will determine the condition of each floor and the overall structure in order to work safely. The position and layout of each flat on each floor and who may have been occupying it will need to be known. It will be a huge forensic task and no doubt very grim.
Spectral Morn
15-06-2017, 10:49
As has been indicated in the news, the search and inspection of Grenfell Tower will take weeks.
Once the fire is totally extinguished and residual heat has subsided sufficiently to allow access, they will determine the condition of each floor and the overall structure in order to work safely. The position and layout of each flat on each floor and who may have been occupying it will need to be known. It will be a huge forensic task and no doubt very grim.
I take my virtual hat off to people who are amazing human beings, no doubt very modest, but still heroes to a man and woman. I hope they all get the after incident counselling no doubt many will need.
There will be so much to do before they start the task of looking for bodies, making the structure safe. Then what a task, I can barely comprehend how difficult that will be.
The pain and suffering of the families can't be imagined, as they will have an awful long wait to find out what happened to loved ones.
God Bless them all
up to 17 last I heard. wont surprise me if it doubles or trebles that
How sad !! I feel for the suffering ones and the missing!!
I see there are discussions about the cladding and how fire retardant it was .
A mate of mine is in the Fire service and was saying privately yesterday -
'Cheaply "refurbishing" 1960s and 70s social housing by cladding the exterior in insulation has been widespread practice across the country by penny pinching councils over the last couple of decades. I recall one of our officers making a visit to council housing locally that was being externally clad. The contractor assured him it met all fire retardancy standards. So he nicked an offcut and tried setting fire to it on the Drill yard. It went up like a torch.'
:rolleyes:
How sad !! I feel for the suffering ones and the missing!!
I see there are discussions about the cladding and how fire retardant it was .
A mate of mine is in the Fire service and was saying privately yesterday -
'Cheaply "refurbishing" 1960s and 70s social housing by cladding the exterior in insulation has been widespread practice across the country by penny pinching councils over the last couple of decades. I recall one of our officers making a visit to council housing locally that was being externally clad. The contractor assured him it met all fire retardancy standards. So he nicked an offcut and tried setting fire to it on the Drill yard. It went up like a torch.'
:rolleyes:
Sure does Anto, and the gap behind just sucks in oxygen to fuel it. Damn stupid idea.
walpurgis
16-06-2017, 15:07
Some very unhappy people here and many questions to be answered. No doubt the government and local authorities will squirm and fudge this.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/where-are-we-going-to-live-grenfell-tower-locals-face-uncertain-future
walpurgis
16-06-2017, 15:17
A large and rather angry protest going on outside Kensington town hall right now. Not surprising. Nobody is getting answers!
walpurgis
16-06-2017, 16:15
Looks like the protest is turning into a riot. It's all kicking off.
Even before this tragedy I predicted this summer might see riots in London. And it's not even that warm yet! Lots of simmering anger out there. Just needs something like this to trigger it.
walpurgis
16-06-2017, 16:43
The protestors will not be going away I think. Could turn ugly tonight. The emergency services have enough on their hands at the moment!
See if she calls in the troops. The poor of this countryhavefor too long been cannon fodder for the well heeled. I guess in parts of any big city its most obvious
walpurgis
16-06-2017, 23:29
Image is everything. As clearly shown here.
https://www.indy100.com/article/theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-grenfell-fire-survivors-firefighters-compare-pictures-7791821
WESTLOWER
16-06-2017, 23:45
Passionate, intelligent and angry...
People are frustrated and angry
qcJPlkqOYX0&feature=youtu.be
Image is everything. As clearly shown here.
https://www.indy100.com/article/theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-grenfell-fire-survivors-firefighters-compare-pictures-7791821
As they say, a picture paints a thousand words... In Mayhem's case, it's simply five: I - DON'T - GIVE - A - FUCK...
And that's why, if (and I strongly suspect when) there is another general election imminently, she'll be OUT on her arse, along with the rest of the Tory scum, the CUNTS that they are, who with their ridiculous penny-pinching policies and pandering to the wealthy/elite, contributed to causing this appalling disaster!! :steam:
Marco.
Passionate, intelligent and angry...
People are frustrated and angry
qcJPlkqOYX0&feature=youtu.be
Yo Ishmail, respect BRO.... FUKKIN YEE-HAH!!!!:clapclapclap: :clapclapclap:
Bring on the PEOPLE'S REVOLUTION AGAINST THE SYSTEM... :hifive: :hifive:
The man is SO spot on, it's untrue. I'd love to meet him; in fact I'd be on the front line with him, LEADING the REVOLUTION!!!!!
Marco.
P.S Adam, I've embedded your link (so that the video appears instantly).
walpurgis
17-06-2017, 14:08
the Tory scum, the CUNTS that they are, who with their ridiculous penny-pinching policies and pandering to the wealthy/elite, contributed to causing this appalling disaster!! :steam:
Marco.
Exactly. That's how I see it. And I reckon, the majority of people.
Arkless Electronics
17-06-2017, 14:13
Passionate, intelligent and angry...
People are frustrated and angry
qcJPlkqOYX0&feature=youtu.be
PRECISELY!!! Ishmael says it all. Those who have exploited the area and its people for financial gain in the creeping "gentrification" and social cleansing can rot in hell!
WESTLOWER
17-06-2017, 14:19
Power to the people...
Next time the yoot won't be rioting to get trainers..
This shit is real. Profit over safety.... it has to end NOW!
To quiet for too long. The old school tie brigade are going down.
That gargoyle is shitting her self
General election mk2 if you will please
PRECISELY!!! Ishmael says it all. Those who have exploited the area and its people for financial gain in the creeping "gentrification" and social cleansing can rot in hell!
as much as I agreed with a lot of what he said, I thought his rant was a tad too polished;)
Arkless Electronics
17-06-2017, 15:20
I've said for years that unchecked capitalism is fundamentally and intrinsically evil and if further proof were needed this is "exhibit A". Those already doing damn well, you know, several nice cars and probably several properties, must not be allowed to make further profits from exploiting their wealth at the expense of societies poorest and most vulnerable! Foreign millionaires and billionaires have bought up much property in the area as "property banking", further inflating prices in the process and leaving nowhere but a few high rise blocks of council houses available to the poor of the area. Even this remaining squalid housing has further been exploited for profit by penny pinching on health and safety, fire proofing etc.
Empty properties in the area (left empty to just gain in value over time) should be seized by the government without compensation (mainly owned by Saudi and Chinese billionaires and hedge funds etc) and made into flats to rehouse the survivors of this avoidable tragedy.
Tories know the price of everything but the value of nothing... especially human life. People MUST come before profit!
Power to the people...
Next time the yoot won't be rioting to get trainers..
This shit is real. Profit over safety.... it has to end NOW!
To quiet for too long. The old school tie brigade are going down.
That gargoyle is shitting her self
General election mk2 if you will please
LOL@ "gargoyle"... Aye, and that's her on a good day! The Tena Lady Maxi, stuck to her bloomers, will no doubt be struggling to contain her faecal incontinence :D
What you've said is all true!
Marco.
Empty properties in the area (left empty to just gain in value over time) should be seized by the government without compensation (mainly owned by Saudi and Chinese billionaires and hedge funds etc) and made into flats to rehouse the survivors of this avoidable tragedy.
An excellent idea, along with a month of their average earnings, for the each survivor to spend as they wish! :thumbsup:
Marco.
as much as I agreed with a lot of what he said, I thought his rant was a tad too polished;)
Wot - you think guys like him are all no-hope dumb asses? ;)
He's simply well-informed, eloquent and educated, most probably despite what he's had to face so far in his life.
Marco.
Nope, just when folk are giving such a rant, and i dont blame him, they usually trip up, stutter etc.. he didnt which suggests to me he is used to it, thats all.
He did get flustered a couple of times, for example when he was talking about the school his daughter goes to, which it took him three goes to get out...
But yes, he's probably used to public speaking in some way, or to ranting like that down the pub with his friends. More power to him, I say! :clap:
Ish's da man :youtheman: :youtheman: :respect:
Marco.
WESTLOWER
17-06-2017, 16:25
Grant, Yes he is used to telling anyone who will listen to his frustration. Your right it seems polished because it's REAL and from his heart...I know many many people who could give you just as passionate and heart felt explosions of frustration and anger straight from the hip. That's a life times worth right there!
i know when ive done it ive got lost a few times:doh: maybe he is just more used to speaking as i said. im certainly not
walpurgis
18-06-2017, 13:39
Horrible situation in Portugal too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40316934
was just reading that.. over 60 dead.
The people are starting to revolt: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/21/day-rage-live-grenfell-tower-protest-london-fire-queens-speech/
...and if they don't get the answers and action that they want, I predict some major riots soon. So expect plenty more 'Days of Rage' like this.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/922/smsWPA.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/923/Wd6dHj.jpg
Bring it on - the WITCH must go!! :guns: :hifive: :hifive:
Marco.
just a bunch of stupid, over-entitled children.
Yeah, right.... Not the ones I've just watched on the news, for whom some SEVEN DAYS since the fire happened, are STILL HOMELESS and don't know what's happening in terms of being rehoused, so in the meantime are sleeping rough on the streets.
That's a total and utter FUCKING DISGRACE!! :steam:
Marco.
Yeah, right.... Not the ones I've just watched on the news, for whom some SEVEN DAYS since the fire happened, are STILL HOMELESS and don't know what's happening in terms of being rehoused, so in the meantime are sleeping rough on the streets.
That's a total and utter FUCKING DISGRACE!! :steam:
Marco.
Too bloody right!
Don't tell me that plans for emergencies such as this are not in place - why weren't they put into action?
It's a national disgrace, making me ashamed of my country.
Spectral Morn
21-06-2017, 20:09
Too bloody right!
Don't tell me that plans for emergencies such as this are not in place - why weren't they put into action?
It's a national disgrace, making me ashamed of my country.
Borris was asked difficult questions earlier tonight on Channel 4 news, he ducked every last one, sound bites will not put this right and it is a complete disgrace how this isn't being handled.
They won't get away with simply brushing this disaster under the carpet, that's for sure - the depth of feeling and anger for the loss of lives in that fire, especially due to such criminal negligence, runs way to deep!!
So, if the government and local authorities don't sort this out, RIGHT NOW, folk will just snap and there'll be major riots in London, as ordinary people have had enough of being treated worse than animals.
Marco.
walpurgis
21-06-2017, 22:22
Typical. Snotty NIMBY's kicking up!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-victims-rehoused-luxury-apartment-block-kensington-neighbours-response-reaction-a7801896.html
never noticed anyone complaining much in video. maybe its been edited
Typical. Snotty NIMBY's kicking up!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-victims-rehoused-luxury-apartment-block-kensington-neighbours-response-reaction-a7801896.html
just watched that an none of them seemed to have an issue with it at all?
They won't get away with simply brushing this disaster under the carpet, that's for sure - the depth of feeling and anger for the loss of lives in that fire, especially due to such criminal negligence, runs way to deep!!
So, if the government and local authorities don't sort this out, RIGHT NOW, folk will just snap and there'll be major riots in London, as ordinary people have had enough of being treated worse than animals.
Marco.
I think you'll find 90% of people not directly affected have forgotten about it already and the other 10% soon will. It is the nature of things. Anyone who relies on the government to sort out their lives for them (and it doesn't matter whether it is evil Teresa or saint Corbyn in charge) will always be disappointed.
As for calling for riots, really? So it isn't going to be your posh house they burn down or your flash Merc that they torch then? Will the mob somehow know that you are on their side and leave them alone? I remember the riots in Liverpool in the 'Eighties. You could stand at our front gate and see the smoke from the fires. The question of how to defend our property should it come any closer was a real one.
What we have here with this fire is simply another example in a long line of examples of local and national governmental incompetence. It is the nature of government and it is not just confined to the UK. The idea that it is somehow related to a political or economic ideology is risible to me.
Nobody gives a shit how 'angry' some poxy middle-class students are. They want to get out and see a bit of the world, get themselves some perspective. Stupid, spoilt children.
Indeed - the snooty, selfish bastards were obviously a little 'camera shy'!
Scroll down past the video, and read the accompanying prose. You can bet your boots that there'll be plenty more 'Annas' there saying similar things. I know what I'd do with them.
Marco.
I think you'll find 90% of people not directly affected have forgotten about it already and the other 10% soon will. It is the nature of things. Anyone who relies on the government to sort out their lives for them (and it doesn't matter whether it is evil Teresa or saint Corbyn in charge) will always be disappointed.
As for calling for riots, really? So it isn't going to be your posh house they burn down or your flash Merc that they torch then? Will the mob somehow know that you are on their side and leave them alone? I remember the riots in Liverpool in the 'Eighties. You could stand at our front gate and see the smoke from the fires. The question of how to defend our property should it come any closer was a real one.
What we have here with this fire is simply another example in a long line of examples of local and national governmental incompetence. It is the nature of government and it is not just confined to the UK. The idea that it is somehow related to a political or economic ideology is risible to me.
Nobody gives a shit how 'angry' some poxy middle-class students are. They want to get out and see a bit of the world, get themselves some perspective. Stupid, spoilt children.
There's not much point me tackling your post properly, as our views on this matter, and politics in general, are so fundamentally poles apart.
However, to say that 90% of people have "forgotten" about this appalling tragedy, demonstrates your usual (seemingly) cold, clinical, uncaring nature, devoid of emotion (are you related to May?) and also how divorced you are from how strongly, decent, caring, compassionate people feel about this tragedy, and are sickened to the core, especially with how utterly inhumanely the government has handled it.
I shall say no more on this, as it makes me too angry just thinking about the situation, and your reaction to it, and I don't want to say anything that I might regret!
Marco.
I'm just stating the truth of the matter. People were killed by terrorists in London just 2 weeks ago, all forgotten already now the next big thing has come along.
Expressing anger and 'emptions' achieves nothing.
Reminds me of 2011 with the riots and fires after the mark duggan shooting in Tottenham. Its was supposed to be our arab spring or something
according to some. Problem was many people in syria had next to nothing income wise, our brave boys were organising the riots on there blueberries
apparently ! As for Anna you d want her onside if you were in trouble, NOT.
I'm just stating the truth of the matter. People were killed by terrorists in London just 2 weeks ago, all forgotten already now the next big thing has come along.
Expressing anger and 'emptions' achieves nothing.
No, it's only the "truth of the matter", as YOU see it, with your dispassionate blinkers on. The reality is, none of it has been "forgotten already" by any decent, caring and compassionate person, especially as it's been on the news every day and night since!
I've just watched this morning's news, showing a very emotional interview with a mother who lost her daughter in the Manchester Arena bombing, talking very bravely about how she would most like to be remembered, and how the thousands of people at the One Love Manchester concert, performed by Ariana Grande, were paying tribute to her and the others whose lives were so tragically taken by that appalling atrocity.
In that respect, here's how it's all being "forgotten about": http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-40341380
Only selfish cunts, who care only about themselves and their superficial little lives, have "forgotten about" it, Martin. Expressing emotion and anger, and most of all showing *sympathy* towards all those who've lost loved ones, in both the Manchester attack and the terrible fire in London, is normal human behaviour for most.
If you want to behave like a cold robot, then carry on, but don't try and tell us how most feel, when you simply don't know. It's well seen that you've only had yourself to think about for years!
Clearly, you've turned suppressing your emotions into a form of 'coping mechanism', to get you through difficult knocks in your life, but don't expect others, who don't need that, to do the same.
Marco.
As for Anna you d want her onside if you were in trouble, NOT.
I'd give the old boot a taste of living rough on the streets for a week, and see how she copes, then that might instil a little more empathy in her towards the plight of those poor people!
Marco.
Is it emotions though?
For sake of argument say you had a brother and he was killed in Grenfall Tower. Then you would be feeling real emotions. You wouldn't be posting here. Your entire life would be in turmoil. You would not feel like eating, you would not be sleeping, or not well anyway. It would be a nightmare you could not wake up from.
That's real emotions. All I see here is people indulging themselves in faux outrage and meaningless soundbites.
You're not happy with the way this country is run? That's fine, neither am I. I hinted at what could be done about it on the General Election thread. Of course no-one was interested because it doesn't involve getting angry and self -righteous or calling for riots and revolutions.
That's emotions. All I see here is people indulging themselves in faux outrage and meaningless soundbites.
There's nothing "faux" about my outrage, I can assure you. If you could see me now, and hear me discussing the matter recently with friends and family, together with some people in public, trust me, you wouldn't be saying that!
"Meaningless soundbites" they may be on here, but if I had my way, I'd take a damn sight more proactive approach to dealing with my outrage, by joining the protests we've seen recently, and incidentally which weren't just being carried out by "poxy middle-class students", but REAL VICTIMS of the fire, who've been made homeless. You need to see past your blinkers!
If I lived in London, I'd definitely do it - and I'd make fucking sure I was heard, too!! My utter abhorrence of 'the system', the establishment, and what this scum Tory government stands for, would ably fuel my protesting. Given suitable provocation, I've always been the determined, rebellious type - and I'm rather good at getting others on my side, too ;)
Anyway, I won't be responding any further to you on this subject, as we're clearly two VERY DIFFERENT people.
Marco.
WESTLOWER
22-06-2017, 14:23
Faux Outrage? is that a serious statement?
Arkless Electronics
22-06-2017, 14:34
There's not much point me tackling your post properly, as our views on this matter, and politics in general, are so fundamentally poles apart.
However, to say that 90% of people have "forgotten" about this appalling tragedy, demonstrates your usual (seemingly) cold, clinical, uncaring nature, devoid of emotion (are you related to May?) and also how divorced you are from how strongly, decent, caring, compassionate people feel about this tragedy, and are sickened to the core, especially with how utterly inhumanely the government has handled it.
I shall say no more on this, as it makes me too angry just thinking about the situation, and your reaction to it, and I don't want to say anything that I might regret!
Marco.
Same here. I find his politics so offensive I am not having much further to do with him.
you don't even understand what my 'politics' are.
total waste of my time
Same here. I find his politics so offensive I am not having much further to do with him.
I won't fall out with Martin about it, as I consider him a friend, but at the same time he needs to understand that he's grossly underestimating the level of feeling and anger you and I have, and others like us, towards what happened in London [the shamefully negligent reasons for that fire occurring in the first place], and especially how woefully the aftermath has been handled since by the government, even though we haven't been directly involved ourselves.
You don't have to directly involved in a tragedy to genuinely care, or most importantly, staunchly defend your principles!
Marco.
you don't even understand what my 'politics' are.
With respect, Martin, judging solely by what you've written here on this subject, especially your comments earlier about things being "forgotten", it seems pretty obvious where you stand, and if not, then you're not explaining yourself very well.
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
22-06-2017, 16:41
I won't fall out with Martin about it, as I consider him a friend, but at the same time he needs to understand that he's grossly underestimating the level of feeling and anger you and I have, and others like us, towards what happened in London [the grossly negligent reasons for that fire occurring in the first place], and especially how woefully the aftermath has been handled since by the government, even though we haven't been directly involved ourselves.
You don't have to directly involved in a tragedy to genuinely care, or most importantly, defend your principles!
Marco.
Not just the Grenfell Tower tragedy either.... The lack of empathy, sympathy, the cold callousness of putting profit, property and "the market" before human life (and then glibly saying 'it's just the way things are/the way of the world"), the blame apportioning on the unemployed, disabled etc that somehow it's "their fault" and they "don't deserve" help, (even after apparently having been there himself! turkeys, xmas) views on immigrants, brexit... and then admitting voting ukip... I'm getting more and more of an image of Thatcher/Farage/EDL/Britain First... Marie Antoinette calling "let them eat cake" even etc etc by the post and this is just the sort of stuff I would go to any lengths to destroy, to fight against (literally if it comes to it), to lobby against, to write to MP's in opposition of etc.
I've always considered Martin one of the more interesting posters on hi fi and music but his political opinions I find so offensive that he couldn't make it worse if he called for the legalisation of child slavery! (something he'd probably want to see a profit/loss projection on before backing it!)
No personal insults please. Thats ooo
I will try one last time because I like you both and have no wish to fall out but you are assuming that I am posting some sort of polemic, perhaps because that is what you do. I am not. I post a commentary because I am a cynic/realist and therefore do not have 'politics' as such. 'Believing' in a particular ideology or putting my faith in an individual to 'lead us' I regard as the triumph of hope over experience. It doesn't work. It never works.
Take this for example:
the blame apportioning on the unemployed, disabled etc that somehow it's "their fault" and they "don't deserve" help, (even after apparently having been there himself! turkeys, xmas) views on immigrants, brexit... and then admitting voting ukip...
you already took me to task re the unemployment comments, despite the meaning of my original post being clear, and I explained it to you, which you then acknowledged. Now you bring it up again in the same old '2 legs bad 4 legs good' manner. It may be as simple as that to you but it isn't to me. Furthermore I refuse to be categorised as 'with you or against you'. I am neither and refuse to be pigeonholed either way.
'Admitting' voting UKIP... you see this is what I hate. Should I really be intimidated by the fact that this will make some people feel 'angry' or 'upset' into lying or keeping quiet? Or voting some other way? That's fascism, gentlemen, however you look at it. 'Join the Nazis or we'll burn your house down.'
Well screw that, it doesn't work on me. It even works against your own cause. You think that because you have intimidated someone into not expressing their views that you have changed their views? Not the same thing. They are in fact more likely to hold those views more strongly because of it. They just won't tell you about it anymore.
For the record and not because I feel that I need to explain myself, I voted UKIP recently and for Brexit last year, because it is my opinion that it is not a good outcome for the people of this country for it to be further subsumed into a European Superstate.
Consequently the legal ties that make this an inevitability need to be broken. We can carry on with the free trade area, the free movement of labour, paying them danegeld, and so on, as far as I am concerned. My opinion on this issue is based on a lifelong study of History, Politics and Economics and has been considered in depth and over many years.
I am not going to write the undergraduate thesis that would be required to explain in full so you will just have to settle for that. If you still think that makes me a 'Britain First' or 'EDL' member, then fine, we can leave it there and you can carry on with Animal Farm but frankly I really don't see the point in discussing politics with people who think it is just a dialectic argument, because then there is nothing to discuss.
I think you'll find 90% of people not directly affected have forgotten about it already and the other 10% soon will. It is the nature of things.
.
Now who here read that as 'I have forgotten about it' other than Marco and Jez? Hands up!
The lack of empathy, sympathy, the cold callousness of putting profit, property and "the market" before human life (and then glibly saying 'it's just the way things are/the way of the world")
The latter (in bold), whilst undoubtedly true, doesn't mean that folk should just 'sit back and take it'. And it boils my piss, like you wouldn't believe, when indeed some folk think they should just 'suck it up', as that's the way things will always be. Well no, PEOPLE POWER *can* (and indeed DOES) FORCE CHANGE!
In my book, the current unfairness, inequality and injustice, prevalent in our society, is loathsome, and deserves to be pointed at and fought against, via any reasonable means. I've never been one for simply meekly 'putting up with' anything that I consider is fundamentally wrong!
That's why I support ACTIVE PROTESTS and demonstrations by ordinary people, fighting for those very things (core human values), whilst rebelling against oppression, because that's what they should be doing, to try and force change. No-one should simply sit back and continually be shat upon from a great height, just because 'it's the way of the world'. Fuck that! :nono:
We need to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, by FIGHTING IT TOGETHER, and STANDING UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT!
And if peaceful protests fail, then regretfully I'm afraid that other more militant courses of action may be necessary, in order to force governments to sit up and take notice that people are very angry and no longer willing to tolerate being treated like shit, and allow governments and the establishment to continually run roughshod over them, whilst the wealthy are handsomely rewarded at their expense.
Ismail (or Ishmael, however his name is spelled), in his impassioned speech on YouTube earlier, talked of there being a "people's revolution", if things don't improve - and SOON. Let's remember that such revolutions have in the past successfully overthrown governments, so perhaps that's what's needed to address the currently unsustainable levels of injustice and inequality in our society?
If so, I'd be all for it. Fat cats can't rule the world forever.
Marco.
Now who here read that as 'I have forgotten about it' other than Marco and Jez? Hands up!
So why highlight that 'statistic', if it doesn't reflect your own opinion?
Who are these 90% of people you're referring to? Have you interviewed a significant cross-section of the UK population, in order assess their feelings and arrive at that statistic? If not, what factual/real world criteria is it based upon...?
And if you've done none of that, then your quoted 'statistic' is meaningless, and so serves no useful purpose.
The problem, Martin, is that you surmise too much, have the tendency to portray your opinion as fact, and often put your point across rather vaguely, whilst simultaneously expecting others to easily grasp it. Therefore, what might appear as clear to you, often isn't to others.
In short, what you write doesn't always reflect what you claim to think.
Marco.
Found my post about the unemployed on the other thread:
What you will find if you talk to people who do hard, boring jobs for little money, is that they are dead against giving alchys and druggies money, dead against dole scroungers, dead against unlimited immigration. It isn't the rich who are bothered about these things, it is typical Labour voters, people who work full-time for minimum (or close to it) wages.
Now who read that as 'I am dead against giving alchys and druggies money, dead against dole scroungers, dead against unlimited immigration' other than Jez and Marco?
Am I posting in tongues or something? It looks like perfect English to me.
Please answer my previous post first about your claimed 'statistic', before we get to that.
Marco.
Unfortunately this thread could go on forever............ 😴
I was not quoting a 'statistic' simply expressing an opinion, or rather pointing out the reality of it.
I was not quoting a 'statistic' simply expressing an opinion, or rather pointing out the reality of it.
Oh for goodness sake, Martin, that's half the problem here, bandying about your opinion as fact. Please stop it, as it's very annoying. You quoted a specific percentage, claiming that it reflected the views of a certain number of people. That's called a statistic.
And if the information used to form that statistic isn't FACTUAL, then it cannot reflect "reality". It's that simple.
It'd be the same as me stating that 90% of people are still in tears over the tragedy, in order to make my point, which would carry the same validity (and usefulness) to the debate, i.e none, because that percentage would be based merely on my perception of the situation.
When expressing an opinion, avoid using statistics, unless they're based on facts. And unless you can prove it, don't claim the existence of any "reality".
As an aside, have you considered that your political views come across as rather right-wing? Is that correct, and how you wish to be seen?
Marco.
It's a turn of phrase used to make a point. How you could possibly interpret that as me quoting statistical facts I really can't imagine.
It's not a "turn of phrase". You don't quote statistics unless they MEAN something. Otherwise, there's no point. You're only doing it to try and make your argument look more convincing.
I strongly suspect, Martin, if you were to canvas the UK population right now on the matter, you wouldn't find that 90% of people have "forgotten" at all - far from it.
Anyway, I think it's probably best now if we leave it there.
Marco.
Just got this email from Avaaz [campaigning community bringing people-powered politics to decision making worldwide]:
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A small Bedouin community facing annihilation at the hands of Israel's soldiers delayed demolition of their community and created a beautiful symbol of resistance, with a giant stone sign reading "We shall remain" right across from a settlement -- and our staff and members were key to the action and mobilizing international media attention that protected their homes!
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Hear, hear!! LONG LIVE THE ACTIVISTS, WHO RESOLUTELY REFUSE TO 'SIT BACK AND TAKE IT'...
:clapclapclap: :clapclapclap:
The same needs to be done with the tragedy that happened in London, and for the victims, and anyone who seeks to FORCE CHANGE, and create a MORE EQUAL, JUST and FAIR society, to FIGHT and DEFEAT this scum Tory government, and their insidiously divisive policies, continually creating such inhumane austerity. LET'S BRING THEM DOWN together!!
SIGN UP NOW, or start your own petition, to FIGHT AGAINST THE SYSTEM and increase the success of PEOPLE POWER: https://secure.avaaz.org/page/en/
Marco.
walpurgis
23-06-2017, 10:14
We have yet to know the real death toll from this disaster. It stands at 79 currently, but as I've suggested in the past, I believe it will be far higher.
This report expresses simliar views: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/23/why-the-grenfell-tower-official-death-toll-has-risen-so-slowly
I think the upper two thirds of Grenfell Tower were unlikely to have been sucessfully evacuated and hundreds of people probably remained.
I've no doubt that the search and recovery process has a long way to go. It's a huge and perilous place to go through and everything has to be forensically catalogued.
Not a job I'd want to do.
walpurgis
24-06-2017, 08:34
Chalcots residents. Appalling treatment! Panicking In the wake of the Grenfell Tower disaster, Camden's local authority have booted 800 families from their social housing flats at twenty minutes notice and with no proper plan for temporary rehousing in place.
http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-24/anger-and-confusion-as-hundreds-of-homes-evacuated-in-wake-of-grenfell-fire/
Residents interviewed on the news appear to have nowhere to go yet. A hall with 100 airbeds seems to be all that has been made available so far. The rest are basically on the streets. This is yet another example of 'couldn't care less' attitudes from the powers that be.
these folk couldn't orginise a piss up in a brewery. going and flinging folk out at 9pm. thousands of them ffs.:doh: It reeks of council heads terrified they will get done for manslaughter and just kicking out irrelevant of cost or other folks inconvenience
It's yet another bloody disgrace by this government! Why should these innocent people suffer such upheaval and inconvenience because of the gross negligence and incompetence of local councils??
Yes, get them the hell out of anywhere that's potentially fatally unsafe, but put them up in hotels, until suitable replacement accommodation has been organised.....! FFS, give them at least some sort comfort as compensation for turfing them out of their homes like this.
Ah, what's that I hear you say? That would cost too much money...? Well, TOO FUCKING BAD! Take it out the wages of the fat cats, whose penny-pinching spending cuts and gross negligence caused this nightmare situation in the first place.
The bottom line is that innocent people shouldn't be made the victims of government and local council incompetence!!
Marco.
and shouldnt be done under cover of darkness either. They should have CONSULTED the people who live there as to how to procede
walpurgis
24-06-2017, 10:37
So far, this is the only 'new home' for most of the displaced residents!
http://i66.tinypic.com/n344ut.png
100 inflatable matresses in a hall. To be shared by 800 families. Unbelievable!!
Apart from a few disabled residents and some with youngsters, the rest still have nowhere to go.
walpurgis
24-06-2017, 10:56
And this is how 'the other half' respond to emergency rehousing.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/woman-living-billionaire-block-grenfell-10679951
a home from home eh?:doh: I bet ya the Councillors wouldn't live there. some of these folk will have left oppression to come here and are marched off in middle of night... getting their kids out of bed etc. it kinda reminds me of a period in mid 20th century:steam:
And this is how 'the other half' respond to emergency rehousing.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/woman-living-billionaire-block-grenfell-10679951
its a lovely country lol. these folk will maybe solve the immigration problem by themselves.... who would volunteer to share a country with them
So far, this is the only 'new home' for most of the displaced residents!
http://i66.tinypic.com/n344ut.png
100 inflatable matresses in a hall. To be shared by 800 families. Unbelievable!!
Apart from a few disabled residents and some with youngsters, the rest still have nowhere to go.
Makes my blood boil beyond description, mate.... As I said before, animals would be treated better. Well, it's certainly the best ever advert of why NOT to vote Tory, and even more reason why, if there is another election, Mayhem will be out on her arse, faster than it takes her wrinkle cream to dry!!
Marco.
This is only halve a mile from me, sky news helicopters hovering above of course!. As a little aside I delivered to the cladding company in these tower blocks
in 2006, never thought the hooha that would result years later. Yes, camden have probably panicked on this yesterday evening when the results of investigation
came in, on the other hand if the million to one chance had come up and something nightmarish had occurred in night imagine then folks reaction ?
And this is how 'the other half' respond to emergency rehousing.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/woman-living-billionaire-block-grenfell-10679951
Absolutely no sign of any human compassion. A sad indictment on the greedy and selfish society that capitalism has created, largely since the Thatcher years, and the inhumane 'me first, at all costs' vermin it's spawned in the process.
I could say plenty about her type, but I'd probably end up being arrested.
Marco.
Yes, camden have probably panicked on this yesterday evening when the results of investigation
came in, on the other hand if the million to one chance had come up and something nightmarish had occurred in night imagine then folks reaction ?
Fine, Brian, if it's only going to be for a short period of time (i.e. no more than 48 hours, I'd suggest) until some proper accommodation has been organised, which allows those involved to live in some dignity, but wait until you see how long they'll be there for, 'living' like that........
As I said before, they should've all been put up in some nearby hotels, until such times as PROPER REPLACEMENT HOMES for them have been found, and hang the cost!
And incidentally, that also applies to the survivors of the fire itself. The fact that some of those poor people have since been left homeless for over a week, including those evacuated from other potentially dangerous tower blocks, and who will now also be homeless for goodness knows how long, is a shocking reflection on 'the system'.
It's certainly a wake-up call, if one were needed, of just how much this government 'cares' for its most vulnerable citizens!!
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
24-06-2017, 12:19
Absolutely no sign of any human compassion. A sad indictment on the greedy and selfish society that capitalism has created, largely since the Thatcher years, and the inhumane 'me first, at all costs' vermin it's spawned in the process.
I could say plenty about her type, but I'd probably end up being arrested.
Marco.
Spot on!
walpurgis
24-06-2017, 14:50
sky news helicopters hovering above of course!
The helicopters are police (and security services) surveilling the multiple large demonstrations by opposing factions that are going on nearby today.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/police-clampdown-on-farright-and-antifascist-marches-in-central-london-to-stop-serious-public-a3572311.html
walpurgis
24-06-2017, 14:56
Around 4000 people ousted from their homes now and nowhere for most of them to go yet. Good job it's not the middle of winter. Although the council would have done just the same if it was.
This is just the beginning. I've no doubt there'll be a 'domino' effect as each affected local authority panics and joins in. We could see many more thousands of temporarily homeless people on the streets. As there are literally scores of tower blocks across the country that may be unsafe.
Wonder if May will win the next (and hopefully soon to come) general election now? 'Austerity? What a fucking disgrace!!
.
walpurgis
24-06-2017, 20:10
This is just the beginning. I've no doubt there'll be a 'domino' effect as each affected local authority panics and joins in. We could see many more thousands of temporarily homeless people on the streets. As there are literally scores of tower blocks across the country that may be unsafe.
Seems I'm not the only one that thinks so: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-latest-tower-blocks-evacuations-uk-manchester-plymouth-camden-safety-cladding-gas-a7806706.html
walpurgis
25-06-2017, 09:44
Asked about government funding for the tower block situation Sajid Javid said in parliament a couple of days ago:
http://i66.tinypic.com/a1d9t.jpg
Note the term "work with". In other words, not confirmation that the government will actually pay towards anything.
Now far be it from me to call anybody an 'evasive little shit', but I have to admit, that thought did spring to mind.
Firebottle
25-06-2017, 10:19
... an 'evasive little shit'
I thought that was a prerequisite to being an MP.
walpurgis
26-06-2017, 08:57
Another squirming minister. Alok Sharma fudging issues. Bloody typical!
http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-26/housing-minister-refuses-to-confirm-if-non-compliant-and-combustible-cladding-is-illegal/
How much more nonsense like this will we get from the government before they address the state and safety of social housing properly? Local authorities will be out of their depth with lack of resources.
walpurgis
26-06-2017, 09:10
Without an accessible labour force London and other cities will not function. But poorer working people are regarded as 'oiks' who should know their place, keep quiet and keep out of the way. The dismay shown by some of the wealthy when faced with the thought that their housekeeper may be moved into the same luxury block of flats they occupy was symptomatic of the situation here.
The lack of new social housing builds for the last thirty years or more is coming home to roost. It's a huge problem. Low income workers just cannot afford to buy homes, it's that simple. But the country would grind to a halt without them.
I'm sure the Tories would be perfectly happy to house them in barracks within the equivalent of labour camps if they had their way.
Firebottle
26-06-2017, 11:41
Without any particular political hat on, it is an extremely sad state of affairs.
Why o why doesn't any government think long term?
Surely someone with influence has a couple of brain cells to spark together and must have known these problems were just building and building (sorry for the pun)?
Is everyone in local/central government thick or something?
I believe it's a prerequisite at the interview stage...
Council manager: "So, tell me what makes you think that this job is perfect for you?"
Interviewee: "Well, a halfwit recently gave me a piece of his mind, and I held onto it... Plus, I'm a firm believer that artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity."
Council Manager: "When can you start?"
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
26-06-2017, 16:07
Without an accessible labour force London and other cities will not function. But poorer working people are regarded as 'oiks' who should know their place, keep quiet and keep out of the way. The dismay shown by some of the wealthy when faced with the thought that their housekeeper may be moved into the same luxury block of flats they occupy was symptomatic of the situation here.
The lack of new social housing builds for the last thirty years or more is coming home to roost. It's a huge problem. Low income workers just cannot afford to buy homes, it's that simple. But the country would grind to a halt without them.
I'm sure the Tories would be perfectly happy to house them in barracks within the equivalent of labour camps if they had their way.
Precisely. IMHO nothing but full on socialism can cure this sickness. So much of "the cake" "belongs" to the super wealthy (I include "Global corps PLC", hedge funds, Saudi billionaires investment portfolios etc as well as the like of The Duke of Westminster and Mohamed al Fayed etc) that the only way there can be enough to share out is to take much of it from the wealthy. They will never volunteer it so taking it from them is the only way.
Once you have a million or three it's a piece of piss to turn it into 100M without doing any work! Just invest it in the right way and know the right people and you'll "earn" more whilst you sleep than any normal person will in a lifetime! No matter how much tax these people pay (and in many cases it's very little as they can pay clever accountants to make sure of that) it's not enough if they can still afford a £400,000,000 yacht as a plaything!
Obviously the entire establishment will do anything to prevent this so we need a politician of a different breed, one who can't be bought, to oversee all this as PM....
"Steal a little and they put you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Bob Dylan.
Heard on tv sometime over the weekend, a reference to a conversation that Nick Clegg had with either osbourne or cameron [spelt deliberately to show no respect to either ] that building social housing only bred Labour voters.Shows the esteem the electorate was/is held in .Says it all
walpurgis
26-06-2017, 18:06
Heard on tv sometime over the weekend, a reference to a conversation that Nick Clegg had with either osbourne or cameron [spelt deliberately to show no respect to either ] that building social housing only bred Labour voters.Shows the esteem the electorate was/is held in .Says it all
Yes. Can't let the 'minions' see anything encouraging. Let alone any sign of benevolence.
That odiously elitist mentality must be eradicated if we're ever to live in a fairer and more equal society, so I'm with Jez in that we need to start TAKING cash from the fat cats and giving it those who need it most.
As for the folk being evacuated from various tower blocks, I'm fully behind those who are refusing to leave. If it were me, I'd be the same. Let's face it, *realistically* they're perfectly safe, so why the fuck should they leave the comfort of their own homes to sleep on a mattress in a hall, for who knows how long, for something that isn't their fault...??
I'd be saying, I'll move WHEN you find me somewhere else decent to live, or if you want to try and chuck me out before then, be prepared for the MOTHER OF ALL BATTLES!! :trust:
As they say in Glasgow: 'Come ahead if you think you're hard enough'.... :punch:
Marco.
If you haven't seen this already, check it out. It sums up what this scum Tory government (and the establishment) are about:
yvy7KrLwPfc
Marco.
This is also something else that needs watching:
i3MIbSrIUaQ
Marco.
walpurgis
26-06-2017, 22:56
To me Marco, this has been obvious. A form of 'gagging' about the truth. You can bet every devious move they can think of to disguise the real body count will have been employed. As I suggested the other day, it would not surprise me if 'special operatives' have been spiriting away remains that are little more than ashes and disposing of them discretely in order to keep the 'official' casualty figure down.
Arkless Electronics
26-06-2017, 23:05
To me Marco, this has been obvious. A form of 'gagging' about the truth. You can bet every devious move they can think of to disguise the real body count will have been employed. As I suggested the other day, it would not surprise me if 'special operatives' have been spiriting away remains that are little more than ashes and disposing of them discretely in order to keep the 'official' casualty figure down.
Yup. And especially where they have inside info that a flat was being sublet to 12 illegal immigrants etc...
walpurgis
26-06-2017, 23:15
Yup. And especially where they have inside info that a flat was being sublet to 12 illegal immigrants etc...
I also said much the same on the 14th.
The number of casualities can't be predicted nor is it likely to be known in total. The nominal occupancy of each flat will not be the actual figure. There would have been numbers of 'unofficial' lodgers renting beds in many of the flats. These may well have been migrants and even illegal immigrants who would not be reported missing.
To me Marco, this has been obvious. A form of 'gagging' about the truth. You can bet every devious move they can think of to disguise the real body count will have been employed. As I suggested the other day, it would not surprise me if 'special operatives' have been spiriting away remains that are little more than ashes and disposing of them discretely in order to keep the 'official' casualty figure down.
Oh undoubtedly! However, it's always good having one's strong suspicions confirmed.
This "gagging" needs to be highlighted and exposed as much as possible, so let's do our small bit, and not let the matter go away, by flagging up and exposing the truth on this thread at every available opportunity, by posting relevant videos or whatever.
At least it will help keep the matter in the public domain and increase awareness, by adding to the collective pool of info available on Google searches.
Let's be a thorn in the side of the establishment, as much as we can, and not let them hide the awful truth!! I, for one, will not allow this appalling tragedy simply to be conveniently 'forgotten'... :nono:
Marco.
You can laugh at David Icke, if you like, and often he goes a little OTT, but I think there's a lot of truth in what he's saying in this video:
4gaets4OjhE
Views please, chaps?
Marco.
Beobloke
27-06-2017, 11:51
Views please, chaps?
Marco.
I think that anyone posting a David Icke video to support their argument gives it even less credibility than if they post a Wikipedia link...
Well, in this instance, I'm happy to have 'no credibility'... Let's hope that what he's describing [the beginnings of which you can currently see plenty evidence of] doesn't come to pass in our lifetime ;)
Marco.
I think that anyone posting a David Icke video to support their argument gives it even less credibility than if they post a Wikipedia link...
Yeah, as an ex goalkeeper picking the ball out of the back of the net too many times at coventry and oxford united has perhaps taken its toll, but who knows
maybe the icke is onto something here ? He was also told famously by wogan on his show that the audience were laughing at him rather than with him !
walpurgis
27-06-2017, 20:16
I posted previously:
Asked about government funding for the tower block situation Sajid Javid said in parliament a couple of days ago:
http://i66.tinypic.com/a1d9t.jpg
Note the term "work with". In other words, not confirmation that the government will actually pay towards anything.
Now far be it from me to call anybody an 'evasive little shit', but I have to admit, that thought did spring to mind.
This confirms my doubts.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-cladding-scandal-council-funding-government-no-guarantee-local-government-budgets-a7809216.html
This will probably mean that in affected boroughs, huge council tax rises will be on the cards to cover the cost. And if that happens councils that aren't affected will just use the precedent as an excuse to follow suit. Betcha! Just wait and see.
Quote of the week
“I say absolutely, categorically that the Government should pay. If they can find £1bn to send to Northern Ireland, that gets more spending per capita than anywhere else, to buy 10 votes, then these people, living in high-rise towers, deserve better.”
walpurgis
27-06-2017, 21:20
And it gets worse. How will they talk their way out of this?
http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-27/firefighters-issued-warning-on-flammable-building-panels-in-may/
Found my post about the unemployed on the other thread:
What you will find if you talk to people who do hard, boring jobs for little money, is that they are dead against giving alchys and druggies money, dead against dole scroungers, dead against unlimited immigration. It isn't the rich who are bothered about these things, it is typical Labour voters, people who work full-time for minimum (or close to it) wages.
Now who read that as 'I am dead against giving alchys and druggies money, dead against dole scroungers, dead against unlimited immigration' other than Jez and Marco?
Am I posting in tongues or something? It looks like perfect English to me.
'The man in the street
Dragging his feet
Don't wanna hear the bad news
Imagine your face
There in his place
Standing inside his brown shoes
You do his nine-to-five
Drag yourself home half-alive
And there on the screen
A man with a dream
I heard it was you
Talkin bout a world where all is free
It just couldn't be
And only a fool would say that'
As Donald Fagen sang.
Yeah, as an ex goalkeeper picking the ball out of the back of the net too many times at coventry and oxford united has perhaps taken its toll, but who knows
maybe the icke is onto something here ? He was also told famously by wogan on his show that the audience were laughing at him rather than with him !
'People laughed when I said I wanted to be a comedian. Let me tell you something, they're not laughing now!'. Bob Monkhouse (I think).
You can laugh at David Icke, if you like, and often he goes a little OTT, but I think there's a lot of truth in what he's saying in this video:
4gaets4OjhE
Views please, chaps?
Marco.
I've got some time for DI, and while some of his ideas are way out there, much of what he was predicting 20 years ago has come to pass (increased surveillance, police state, global concentration of power in undemocratic companies & institutions, rising inequality etc). I think he misses the mark here a bit though.
walpurgis
19-07-2017, 17:51
This is disgraceful and very pertinent here.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/revealed-town-halls-fail-to-seize-any-of-capital-s-20000-empty-homes-a3591156.html
walpurgis
01-08-2017, 18:35
Another waste of space on a fat salary avoiding the issue.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-kctmo-elaine-elkington-no-reference-tragedy-first-statement-kensington-chelsea-a7871691.html
scarcely credible that someone could manage to write a speach like that far less deliver it. Guessing it proves that the ruling classes really dont give a f**k
perhaps we need a bit of the French terrors:lol:
walpurgis
01-08-2017, 18:54
There's something seriously wrong with the overview at Kensingtom and Chelsea. This says just as much about the people who appointed this woman. No doubt she was briefed as to what NOT to include in her inaugural speech.
"... at a business-critical time...". FFS who writes these speeches?
walpurgis
02-08-2017, 09:01
And things like this just fuel the problem. Kensington and Chelsea feature again.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/02/revelations-about-empty-homes-in-grenfell-area-simply-unacceptable
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/01/empty-homes-normal-rules-do-not-apply-to-super-rich-in-london
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