View Full Version : So is Marco coming to the Manchester show this weekend?
Dave Cawley
22-01-2010, 07:52
Apart from us there will be the two big record sellers.
We won't get an award this Saturday at Manchester, but we will be using tape! DAT in fact! Made from a collection of 80's 12" singles recorded on my SP-10, SME V and Shelter 301. The second system will be the SL-1200, Jelco and OC9. Both into Alex's "Class A" all FET single ended headphone amplifier.
We are hoping to have the Sennheiser HD-800 to go with our Denon AH-D7000. If you are listening Sennheiser, we really want you to work with us please?
And the next show at Bristol, may be a souped up, and I really mean souped up, Elcaset EL-7, if I get time to finish it. This will be the highest performance EL-7 ever made, and then some....................
Regards
Dave
Dave
I'm in.
Looks form the interest here that it might just be me and you. I'll get the coffee whilst the tumbleweed rolls past.
Sprog patrol means that it's Saturday morning only for me I'm afraid, but I look forward to making your acquaintance.
Jim
Dave Cawley
22-01-2010, 08:03
Hi Jim
Great, black and lots of sugar please!
Dave
The Grand Wazoo
22-01-2010, 08:06
Trying to work out if I can manage it. Also trying to work out if I can bear it! Not been to a show since '92!!
Hi Dave,
LOL - I'm not sure, as I went to both Whittlebury Hall and the Manchester town centre (Practical Hi-fi) show last year, so I might give it a miss - *or* I might wake up on Saturday morning and think 'what the hell' and go... We shall see! :)
I'm somewhat shocked and stunned though that you're finally managing to drag yourself away from the environs of Dartmouth... Maybe you'll turn into a lizard (or something) when you cross the West Country border... Be careful!! :eek:
Hehehe.... Anyway, why not pop by my place on Sunday evening (en-route back down south, as Guy Sergeant does) for a chill-out and bite to eat, and I can assault your ears with my Tannoys? :eyebrows:
It would be good to meet up again and have a chinwag before coming down chez-toi for bearing mod shenanigans on the 28th.
Marco.
Best EL-7 ever eh??? The standard one was better than most r-r decks at the time IIRC..
Darned good format that. A shame it died..
Dave Cawley
22-01-2010, 08:36
Hi Dave
Yes indeed, and the FeCr tape was way better than you could buy for reel to reel. But we have ways................
Regards
Dave
Hi Dave,
You have email :)
Marco.
Beechwoods
22-01-2010, 17:59
And the next show at Bristol, may be a souped up, and I really mean souped up, Elcaset EL-7, if I get time to finish it. This will be the highest performance EL-7 ever made, and then some....................
I would love to see / hear that Dave. I would be seriously interested in finding out more about your hot-rodded EL-7. I mean; mine hasn't had a service since it's been in my possession and could probably do with a good fettling! Have you got one of Sony's original Demonstration tapes? It's well worth hearing.
Marco can't have it either...:ner:
Seriously, I remember our engineers testing a standard EL-7 and on FeCr it annihilated a hi-speed B77 (flat response to over 27KHz IIRC - the B77 barely beats CD before the response tumbles I believe)
Beechwoods
22-01-2010, 18:10
FeCr does sound fantastic on an EL-7. More than compensates for the relatively slow 3¾ ips tape speed.
Forgive me for the thread hijack, Dave C...
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Tapeheads/elcaset/elcaset02_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Tapeheads/elcaset/elcaset03_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Tapeheads/elcaset/elcaset04_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Tapeheads/elcaset/elcaset05_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Tapeheads/elcaset/elcaset06_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Tapeheads/elcaset/elcaset07_s.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/beechwoods/Tapeheads/elcaset/elcaset10_s.jpg
Hi Nick,
Everytime I see a picture of an Elcaset I think 'oooh, sexy!'......*UNTIL* that is I see the 'Fisher Price/'smiley face' control buttons, and it puts me off! :doh:
Can you see what I mean?
It's superficial, I know, but I can be fussy that way with some gear! :)
Marco.
hifinutt
22-01-2010, 18:25
tasty photo`s
Beechwoods
22-01-2010, 18:34
Everytime I see a picture of an Elcaset I think 'oooh, sexy!'......*UNTIL* that is I see the 'Fisher Price/'smiley face' control buttons, and it puts me off! :doh:
I actually think the EL-7 / EL-5 and Sony tape decks from the same period have some of the nicest fascia designs of any deck! It's funny how two views could be so at odds! I also have a remote for my EL-7 which has the same style buttons :)
They're a design classic!
If it wasn't for the Naks and the like, who pushed normal cassettes to their limits, the EL-7 could have succeeded. Pity.
The way it treated tapes (taking them out of the cassette when playing/recording so that the manufacturing tolerances of the cassette shell did not matter) was really exceptional.
Beechwoods
22-01-2010, 19:23
Absolutely!
Gosh, yes, don't get me wrong, in every way they're an example of the state-of-the-art - except for those bloody buttons! :lol:
The just look, well, a bit 'girly'.... :eyebrows:
YMMV (and clearly it most definitely does!) :lolsign:
Marco.
Interrupting the hilarity, on a more serious note, I have been asked by the organiser of the Manchester show tomorrow (Justin from Chester Group) to post the following advert:
Back by popular demand
The SHOWSHOP
BUY & SELL DURING THE SHOW
NORTHERN HIGH FIDELITY SHOW 2010
Sponsored by THE EMPORIUM
‘High Fidelity’ welcomes back our very popular SHOWSHOP and it will be located in the vast MILANO Suite on the Ground Floor of the RADISSON BLU HOTEL.
Nick Besley will be running the SHOWSHOP for us this year and is bringing with him some very tasty Audio items – both modern and Vintage, and a whole load more.
Uniquely he also tells us he has money burning a hole in his pocket so if you’re looking to turn your Audio Systems into cash so you can upgrade or add something extra to your system then this is your chance.
Here’s some of the ‘delights’ already shortlisted to come up to Manchester:
Ex demo equipment from:
VIVA AUDIO ( valve amps)
DOCET LECTOR ( VALVE CD PLAYERS, PHONOSTAGES, HYBRID AMPS)
KORA 3t - AWARD WINNING PHONOSTAGES
CROFT- VALVE PREAMPS
OKKI NOKKI RECORD CLEANING MACHINES.
VINTAGE AMPS FROM LEAK, QUAD, ROGERS.
VINTAGE TURNTABLES INCL GARRARD 301/ 401.
VINTAGE LOWTHER SPEAKERS.
VINTAGE HIFI MAGAZINES.
VINTAGE TANNOY DRIVE UNITS.
VINTAGE RUSSIAN CAPACITORS.
Used equipment from:
LINN, ORIGIN LIVE, CYRUS, AUDION,TVA,AVONDALE, NAIM.ATC, ADVANTAGE, MUSICAL FIDELITY, WILSON,B&W, AUDIO RESEARCH
Nick will also have a large quantity of vintage classical vinyl- to add to these pleasures
YOUR HOST & ORGANISER: THE CHESTER GROUP
YOUR SPONSOR: THE EMPORIUM. NICK BESLEY. 01986 895929, nick@emporiumhifi.demon.co.uk
Beechwoods
25-01-2010, 19:47
Dave... can you tell us some more about your plans for your EL-7 > http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=96350#post96350 ... it sounds like a winner :)
Dave Cawley
25-01-2010, 20:13
I could, but then.......................
Dave
Wrong dave here, but the standard EL-7 was streets ahead of ANY cassette deck at the time and IIRC it was better than high speed domestic reel-to-reel machines. With a bit of modern fettling it should be more amazing than it was at the time. Systems weren't as well sorted as they are today and for all I know, the electronics may not be up to the mechanics when auditioned on currently "sorted" gear...
I wait with bated breath, remembering the Christmases at KJ in the late seventies where we'd have a huge queue at the tape counter and tapes of all sorts going out in boxes of 48 sometimes (£11 each for a good E180 VHS - that's pushing £30 today or more for a three hour video tape. I thought I had some of the old KJ price-lists but they may have gone now.....
Where are the show reports, guys? Dave, what was it like - did you get a good response from people at your stall with the Techy, etc - did you take any pics? If so, let's see 'em!
Chris (TGW), I thought you went to the show - well what did you think? :)
All this silence makes me wonder if it was shite!
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
26-01-2010, 07:39
I'll try & do something in a bit.
Hehehe! I thought I'd be able to work to your timescale Marco (aren't we still waiting?)
Hehehe... No worries, Chris. It's just that the overall silence by everyone on this subject (unless not many people here went to the show) is rather strange....
Davey-boy (Techy-meister), get yer finger out too! ;)
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
26-01-2010, 07:52
Well, according to Dave who was working the door (almost!) and easily identifyable to all, there wasn't exactly a big stampede of Art of Sounders.
So you met Dave, then? Cool :)
Like I said, if I'd known you were going I'd have popped along to say 'hi' :cool:
The lack of forum interest (it's a similar situation on pfm, although the agenda-driven 'objectivists' there have turned the discussion into a stand/cable bitch-fest :rolleyes:) is probably because it was a northern event, which reflects the bias in the overall north/south demographic.....
Marco.
Dave Cawley
26-01-2010, 08:53
Hi Marco
I'll get around to it after you have covered the Whittlebury show old chum!
For us it was very good and a great opportunity to talk to people.
Regards
Dave
Hi Marco
I'll get around to it after you have covered the Whittlebury show old chum!
Whittlebury show? Mmm... I seem to remember something about that but can't quite place it.....:scratch:
For us it was very good and a great opportunity to talk to people.
Nice one.
Which room then did you reckon produced the best sound, and what system was it? How did people receive the Techy you were demonstrating? :)
Marco.
Dave Cawley
26-01-2010, 09:08
We had the best sound on our Sl-1200 driven £900 Denon Headphones!
Dave
Lol - I read the review of those (and some other rather nice headphones) in this month's HFN.....most interesting :)
Did the Techy you were demonstrating have a Mike New or Timestep bearing fitted?
Incidentally, have you noticed that Mike has now joined us here? :cool:
Marco.
Dave Cawley
26-01-2010, 09:34
It had the Mike New bearing.
I have not yet caught up, so haven't even e-mailed Mike to tell what happened at the show. We had a sample of his bearing for people to hold, they loved it!
Dave
A quick little snippet from us, a good show all round, only one or two rooms not really making the mark, Saturday was much better then Sunday both attendence and sound wise (Big dip in mains quality for some reason, every one seamed to suffer from this).
The public seemed to be more relaxed and intrested in all aspects of the equipment on display, very good natured event too.
Personally for me, the new Wilsons (when played low) did work well, the Audio note room (Saturday) was good too, for those seeking a hifi experiance, Sounds of music did produce that sound well. All in fun weekend, that really needed more people.
The Grand Wazoo
26-01-2010, 16:54
For what it's worth, here are my impressions of the Big Boy's Beano at the Radisson.
I arrived at the show at about 10:30 on Sunday morning; the rest of the family jumped onto public transport for a shopping trip to the city centre & left me to it. The first thing I did was to make a bee-line for the record stands in the foyer – Stamford Audio and Vinyl Demand had pretty good stocks of new (& for Stamford, some second-hand) records.
Behind me, Dave Cawley was entertaining a steady stream of enquiries about his range of goodies. I left Dave to it for a while so he could get on with the important business of conducting business, returning 2 or 3 times through the morning so I could introduce myself, but he seemed pretty busy.
So, off I went to the rooms. I said on another thread that I haven't been to a show since 1992 but that's not true as I since recalled that I went to a couple of the early Chesterfield events, which would have been '94 or so. At the Radisson, I quickly learnt that no-one's managed to find a cure for the disease that is hotel room sound in the time since then!
I'll just cover what were for me, the highlights & mention (but try not to be too disparaging about) some of the disappointments. I didn't make any notes, and my short term memory is notoriously bad, so forgive me for any confusion that might ensue. I understand that the venue's power supply was being rather variable throughout the day & my ears were slightly blocked during part of the morning, so don't take what I say to be gospel & please don't be offended if you were an exhibitor. To another set of ears or at another time the sound may have been totally different.
Nick from The Emporium had a huge selection of second-hand classical vinyl along with some interesting kit for sale – all displayed in a charmingly 'rustic' manner! All the while, there was music playing from a Townsend Rock through big Viva mono blocks into some Quad '57's (perched on chairs!!). I didn't feel the Quads were able to show their full potential given the circumstances, though plenty of folks were to be overheard commenting on the good sound in the room.
Similarly, I struggled a little with the Soundsmith SG-610 Strain Gauge cartridge, which was being played thorough their new HE-150 power amp and some small stand mount speakers - the Rio from Green Mountain Audio. Like the Quads above, I could hear some greatness, but levels were relatively low & the neighbouring rooms were quite loud. However, this was frustrating because I suspect this system is capable of being truly excellent given different circumstances.
One of the culprits in the neighbouring rooms was a Chord system with (I think) Wilson Benesch speakers. I found the whole experience to be overly forward & rather perversely I suppose, given that statement, a little uninvolving. The music was being streamed (I think), but I didn't stay long enough to find out. I passed the room a couple more times as the day went on, stuck my head round the corner of the door & couldn't spot any improvement.
On a more positive note, I found the room with Zu speakers, an EMM Labs CD player and a big Atma-sphere OTL valve amp making some excellent music. That amps look reminded me of the Carvers from the Silver Seven era. During the time I was there, the sound was great, belying any notions of valves sounding old fashioned. Imaging was great & given control of the source material & volume control, I could've spent a long time in that room! They were doing something right as the sound was for me, far superior to the other room with Zu speakers.
The Absolute Sounds room was another that many folks seemed to be raving about in many overheard conversations. The system was the top Audio Research Reference series electronics - CD7 cd player, Reference 210 mono power amps and Reference 5 preamp - with the Wilson Sashas. I felt this system was fantastic, but for one single flaw. Many of the aspects of the performance were very, very good, but the soundstage and imaging were completely wrong. It gave the impression that instruments were literally huge caricatures of themselves. I can see how some people would be impressed by this, but it spoiled the performance for me. For example, the portrayal of a drumkit stretched right across the room and from floor to ceiling, so that when the drummer worked his way around the kit, he would have had to catch a bus to get to the high hat from the tom-toms all the way over there on the other side of the room. And when he got there he'd have to climb up a ladder to reach the thing with his sticks! At first, I thought this was the material being played – a recording engineer making the most of the stereo effect available to him, but track after track it seemed the same. A shame.
The McIntosh room had a really impressive looking system (& who can't fail to be impressed with all that beautiful glass fronted retro-loveliness?). The anniversary amps – C22 pre and 75 watt MC75 mono amps were playing through Art speakers. I thought it sounded pretty good too, but perhaps not as good as you'd expect for the high price. It would have been interesting to have heard a good turntable through this set-up.
I had been looking forward to hearing the DCS CD system & there it was with Spectral amps and some big Focal speakers. I really hope they were just having a bad day, because this seemed like a great reason to keep your money in the bank! It was very matter of fact and lacking completely in the sort of musical emotion that I've heard coming from systems at less than the price of one of the interconnects they were using.
The Music First room was welcoming with offers of cake & home demos being booked. The LS3 5a's they were using were managing very well with what LS3 5a's do very well – imaging and mid range magic. I've never heard the MF pre-amps but I do use the Billington transformers in my Bent Audio Mu moving coil step-ups. The sound was pretty good & it's obvious that the pre is something a little special but I can't help feeling that a lot of folk would have left the room disappointed because they didn't get the big bass, scale and fireworks on offer in some of the other rooms – it was pretty lightweight, but that's not what this type of system is about.
In the Moon room, some pretty loud & raunchy rock music was allowing the amps to flail the Monitor Audio (PL200?) speakers alive. I've heard Moon electronics sounding very good before so I assume the speakers were the culprit; they just didn't seem to be able to keep up with the amps & were behaving a little like the kid in the choir who doesn't know the words to the song! You know the one, he makes movements with his mouth but proper words don't come out until after he's heard everyone else sing them, then he catches up during the chorus. Still, the other guy in the room seemed happy enough with it & congratulated the guys doing the demo on the impressive performance. Oh well!
There was a speaker that's new to me in the room with the Pass Labs integrated amp – Festrex with full range drivers. The sound here was obviously coloured but seemed incredibly musical, bouncing along like a good 'un. Great fun.
There was more fun to be had with the new Systemdek turntable (looking a bit different from the old biscuit tin!), Audio Origami arm, Alnic amps and more Art speakers. The choice of music was great, the sound was excellent and that arm looks fantastic!
The Music Works room was sporting an Accuphase DP500 CD player and integrated amp and some Focal Electra 1027 Be speakers. But the purpose of the room was to demonstrate the the Revo racks & cables. The sound was good, but who could tell how much of this was attributable to the components & how much to the necessories? As the user of an Accuphase CD player myself, I'd say at the very least, that they got off to a good start! I liked the sound here too, but felt the Brubeck album that was played at one point lacked some of the studio atmospherics and lightness of touch that I know to be on this disc. To add some thoughts to a thread elsewhere on AoS covering the racks, they look to me to be of low material value (& actually pretty flakey construction) for the money being asked. Without a comparison test, I can't comment on their effect. Hosepipe sized speaker cable still doesn't impress me, though it obviously does something for some other folks!
Given the fact that this is rapidly turning into a massive work of literature & I don't have any usable photos to pep it up a bit, I'll turn now to what I thought were the best sounds on the day. There were two systems which for me stood out way apart from the rest and they were so different in concept as to make it impossible to pick an overall best.
The first was the Audio Note room, one that I kept going back to. The music was not always to my taste, but the system shone through. I heard two incarnations. The first consisted of a turntable (looking like the old Systemdek II design) with an IO cartridge (I can't remember the model of this or most of the other items in this room, I'm afraid – but don't be too tough on me, because you can't afford any of it anyway!), into a separate phono stage, the Jinro integrated amp – which is a line level only Ongaku built with copper wiring and transformers instead of silver – 211 valves and 27 watts and AN- E speakers. The other incarnation was the same amp & speakers but an AN CD transport & DAC. I actually couldn't find any fault with this system at all and the 27 watts that were available filled a big, well populated room with ease. I think I could find one or two niggly naggly little problems with it, but I think I'd have to take it home for a few months to check!
The other top system for me was our own Dave Cawley's setup. When I finally felt able to have a chat without preventing him from making a sale I got to listen to his and Alex's gear. I didn't listen to it for very long at all, but despite also having slightly blocked ears, the sense of 'rightness' was immediately obvious. I'm not a big headphone user, but the turntable (with the full list of mods) playing through Alex's phono stage and headphone amp sounded just great – a sound that I'm sure I could live with if I was looking for something with those features. By the way, that bearing is a nice piece of work, Dave let me have a bit of a play with one.
Take your pick - big, pricey, full of valves and with room filling sound or small, relatively cheap and with head filling sound?
So, the show was a bit of a mixed bag, but on the whole, I enjoyed myself and learnt quite a bit, both about hi-fi and about myself and my expectations. I got to hear some kit I'd never normally get to hear and learnt about some I'd never heard of before. I also got to meet some nice folks and talk about a common interest – always a pleasure! Despite having been to many shows in the past (and therefore I should know better) I still fell victim to the catering trap – two quid for a thimble full of coke etc etc etc…….. (You know the score!).
One thing that always struck me at shows was the amount of "mugs eyeful" bling at these events that you later find for peanuts in second hand shops (Dynamics in Welwyn had almost a club of regulars who rotated the stock every six months or so between them ;) - I believe they've bit the dust now).
The Grand Wazoo
26-01-2010, 19:51
One thing that always struck me at shows was the amount of "mugs eyeful" bling at these events that you later find for peanuts in second hand shops
I've got past the stage where I let my eyes tell my ears what they're hearing. You should see the state of my Radford!
Excellent visit report there Chris - almost as though I had been there myself. Thanks.
For someone who didn't take notes, you have a very good memory!.
Totally agree with you on the absurb spatial presentation provided by some systems. You cite the Absolute Sounds demonstration. Like you, I was impressed with their demo at Whittlebury Hall, last year, then using Martin Logan speakers but had concern on the presentation of height. The sin of providing an absurb spatial presentation was one that was made by many exhibitors. Is this what exhibitors think that customers want? I could not make any real assessment of the Soundsmith strain gauge cartridge because of that.
I came away from the Whittlebury Hall show with the impression that only few people must listen to live music and know what live instruments sound like. Do the rest just want a 'good and exciting sound', but one that is detatched from reality?
Regards
The Grand Wazoo
26-01-2010, 22:18
Thanks Barry.
I guess my memory's better than I remembered!
I think this soundstage thing is more pronounced in big rooms, where the exhibitors are trying to cater for several seats placed across it. I'm sure you could do better if things were set up with a smaller sweet spot. The speakers are often very wide apart - at least there wasn't a hole in the middle! (which I have witnessed in the past)
Spectral Morn
26-01-2010, 22:28
Hi Chris
Good write up of the show. Any photos would be good..please.
Regards D S D L
Beechwoods
26-01-2010, 22:30
I came away from the Whittlebury Hall show with the impression that only few people must listen to live music and know what live instruments sound like. Do the rest just want a 'good and exciting sound', but one that is detatched from reality?
There is a very popular movement towards extremely unrealistic reproduction of what one would call real music... over-bright and dynamically squashed acoustic instruments, stereo widening and phase affects. I think there's a notion that people like that. To be honest, in it's place (pop production) it can create cut-through and put a smile on the face in an 'knowing' sort of way. Not having experienced systems that capitalise on the unrealistic presentation you describe I can't comment, but I can see where it's coming from. It's the audio equivalent of the OTT default sharpness, contrast and colour settings on a new TV. Superficially exciting but unrealistic.
Thanks for introducing me to the word 'absurb', Barry. I thought it was a spelling mistake at first, but realise it was intentional having looked it up! :cheers:
Hi Nick,
Thanks for introducing me to the word 'absurb', Barry. I thought it was a spelling mistake at first, but realise it was intentional having looked it up!
It was a spelling mistake (twice! :()!! What does 'absurb' mean? It's not in my OED.
Cheers
Beechwoods
26-01-2010, 22:49
:lol: And to think I nearly edited your post to correct it, and then figured you were just expressing yourself better than I could!
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Find_a_sentence_for_absurb
Absurb means ridiculous;not sensible
The Grand Wazoo
26-01-2010, 22:50
Superficially exciting but unrealistic.
That's the key to it isn't it?
Hopefully if you were dropping the kind of cash being asked for in exchange for that system, you'd look for something beyond the superficially exciting. If everyone else heard the same thing as I did, then it fooled a lot of folks because there was a definite buzz about that room.
:lol: And to think I nearly edited your post to correct it, and then figured you were just expressing yourself better than I could!
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Find_a_sentence_for_absurb
Oh, the educational benefits of belonging to AoS! Looks like I had inadvertently chosen a bon mot. Thanks Nick.
Regards
Like award winning TV programmes with LOUD "backing" music and over-saturated colours. Funny thing is, it looks even worse once Freeview and cheapo LCD TV's have mucked around with it.....
That's the key to it isn't it?
Hopefully if you were dropping the kind of cash being asked for in exchange for that system, you'd look for something beyond the superficially exciting. If everyone else heard the same thing as I did, then it fooled a lot of folks because there was a definite buzz about that room.
I'm sure that many of the listeners in the Absolute Sounds room did like what they were hearing. It goes back to the question I asked in my thread "Fidelity to what? ...", do we want a realistic, believable facsimile of a performance, or an exciting, entertaining extravaganza (apologies for the alliteration)?
Regards
The Grand Wazoo
26-01-2010, 23:34
Good write up of the show. Any photos would be good..please.
Apologies Neil, the camera inadvertantly went on the shopping trip!
Hi Chris,
Great write-up - and thanks for taking the time to do that :)
I'll comment in more detail later (just up after yesterday driving nearly 600 miles there and back to Dave C's having my Mike New bearing fitted to the Techy), but your comments about the Absolute Sounds demo also rings true with me.
I'm sure that some people would be superficially impressed with that type of sound, but for me it just doesn't represent real music. In fact, I've yet to hear one of their demos and been in any way impressed - quite the opposite in fact!
I always sit there saying to myself 'ok, if I were going to drop six figures on a hi-fi system - would I entertain using any of this?' - The answer is always a big fat 'no!' I always love the way that little guy with the funny dress sense (don't know his name or who he is) introduces the gear being demonstrated with a big build-up, how it's 'state-of-the-art' in every way, and then when the music starts I'm thinking to myself 'what a load of pants - my system at home would blow this into the weeds at a mere fraction of the cost!' :rolleyes:
For me, Absolute Sounds represent the epitome of what's wrong with the 'high-end', and gives a bad name to the specialist companies producing products which genuinely deserve the title - and despite my well-known views on this matter, there are a few of those. No, the best sounds at shows always come from the smaller boutique brands, carefully set-up by those who are genuinely passionate about what they do, and not simply in it to make a fast buck.
The other top system for me was our own Dave Cawley's setup. When I finally felt able to have a chat without preventing him from making a sale I got to listen to his and Alex's gear. I didn't listen to it for very long at all, but despite also having slightly blocked ears, the sense of 'rightness' was immediately obvious.
Nice one. So you've now had a small sample of 'Mike New'd' Techy magic.... Just imagine what it sounds like on the end of a top-notch system and (external) speakers! ;)
More later.....
Marco.
Dave Cawley
29-01-2010, 08:58
In my opinion it's mostly about setup and the holistic matching of components. For a time I worked with a distributor and we often had the best sound at the show, or at least in the top three. Until the day we were told to use stand mount speakers with beryllium tweeters and silver loudspeaker cable on a class D amplifier..........
I have always said a holistic system is greater than the sum of its parts. At the weekend the small £17K Focal Utopia system was very good, but occasionally it wasn't due to some really bad music being played. Another room I went into the right loudspeaker wasn't working, the 'minder' had not noticed.............
So it's not just the equipment, it's how you set it up, where you position the speakers, what you play and are you motivated?
Regards
Dave
Spectral Morn
29-01-2010, 10:33
In my opinion it's mostly about setup and the holistic matching of components. For a time I worked with a distributor and we often had the best sound at the show, or at least in the top three. Until the day we were told to use stand mount speakers with beryllium tweeters and silver loudspeaker cable on a class D amplifier..........
I have always said a holistic system is greater than the sum of its parts. At the weekend the small £17K Focal Utopia system was very good, but occasionally it wasn't due to some really bad music being played. Another room I went into the right loudspeaker wasn't working, the 'minder' had not noticed.............
So it's not just the equipment, it's how you set it up, where you position the speakers, what you play and are you motivated?
Regards
Dave
Agreed.
The problem with Absolute Sounds demos is, they always pick the biggest rooms and quite often the systems they pick to demo would be more comfortable in smaller rooms. They turn up the sound and bamb, its not right. I can't believe, that Audio Research, Martin Logan etc sounds crap all the time, but it has every time I have heard an AS demo.
Now Audio Freaks, every time I have been in their room, they have had an excellent sound.
Regards D S D L
chris@panteg
29-01-2010, 10:40
That guy Marco was describing ' i think its Ricardo ?
Neil ' Audio freaks yes i heard a few of their rooms (at other shows) ' that's that Branko fella ' can't remember his last name , yes always good and not stupidly loud like most either .
Hi Chris,
No it's not Ricardo - I know him. It's one of the Absolute Sounds dealers, I think. He's usually there with his wife, who's looks about 60 (quite cheeky, too, with her snooty attitude), but dresses as if she was 14, and he's not much better in that respect!
They're a couple of right oddballs...... :mental:
Neil,
I can't believe, that Audio Research, Martin Logan etc sounds crap all the time...
I can - anytime I've heard that stuff, no matter where, I've never liked it!! ;)
Marco.
Dave Cawley
29-01-2010, 11:47
I could get the big Martin Logan's to sound right, if I had the free choice of the other bits and a few weeks!
Dave
Ricardo is the main man, but like all clever dickies (;)) gets others to do the donkey work for him. A few years ago, he'd diversified into other profitable areas and didn't have a huge amount to do with the audio side, leaving much of it to his no.2, Pedro.
It's not Pedro either... Does anyone know who the funny wee guy is I'm referring to who often conducts the AS demos at shows? He was there at Whittlebury Hall.
Marco.
purite audio
29-01-2010, 15:16
Pinewood Audio? They always run a room for Ricardo.
Keith.
Ah, maybe that's who it is then Keith... Cheers! He's a bit of a strange bloke.
He could be a great guy in reality, of course, once you know him better, but I'm afraid I don't really warm to him with his demos.
And I once saw his wife (or partner) literally shoving people out of the room because they'd dared to pop their heads inside the (closed) door of his all-ticket demo - how rude!! Good job it wasn't me she'd tried that with ;)
Marco.
Agreed.
The problem with Absolute Sounds demos is, they always pick the biggest rooms and quite often the systems they pick to demo would be more comfortable in smaller rooms. They turn up the sound and bamb, its not right. I can't believe, that Audio Research, Martin Logan etc sounds crap all the time, but it has every time I have heard an AS demo.
Now Audio Freaks, every time I have been in their room, they have had an excellent sound.
Regards D S D L
Agree about the Absolute Sounds demos. I'm sure they rest on their reputation. They seem to have a very patronising attitude to potential customers. I used to find the same with Naim demos, and still do with their larger systems.
Mind you I come across similar attitudes in Hi Fi 'salons'. Many years ago (in the '80s), I listened to some Linn Isobariks at KJ Leisuresound. When I complained that the sound image was all over the place, the musicians seemingly swimming around, the demonstrator replied: "How do you know it's not supposed to sound like that?" This was not a fault of the KJ demo (though I didn't do much for my confidence in the soundness of any advice that might be given by their staff), the problem was with the design; I heard the same at a Linn demo at Swiss Cottage in London.
Agreed with you on Audio Freaks. They always seem to put on a good demonstration: equipment well set up, music well chosen (not gee whizz stuff) and played at a realistic level.
Regards
chris@panteg
29-01-2010, 21:46
Hi Chris,
No it's not Ricardo - I know him. It's one of the Absolute Sounds dealers, I think. He's usually there with his wife, who's looks about 60 (quite cheeky, too, with her snooty attitude), but dresses as if she was 14, and he's not much better in that respect!
They're a couple of right oddballs...... :mental:
Neil,
I can - anytime I've heard that stuff, no matter where, I've never liked it!! ;)
Marco.
Hi Marco
I stand corrected ' yes , actually Ricardo is always very discreet at these shows.
I have only once been impressed by an AS dem ' and it was Bristol 1990 .
A pair of Sonus faber's , Audio Research Pre and power , and Dave's Micro seiki cd player , it sounded out of the box with astonishing almost holographic imaging (if you like that sort of thing) mind you it did have some siltech cables costing over a grand :scratch:.
There was a Goldmund studio turntable ' which for some reason failed to impress.
Ricardo was there but not demonstrating but he looked happy with the sound.
I and a friend were one of 2 or 3 people brave enough to ask a few question's ' everybody else was just shaking their heads ' when they did the number's .
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