View Full Version : Can you enjoy listening to music ...
... if you're a real "hifi" obsessive?
I ask this because I'm just discovering what my (late) father spent on his hifi setup, and how he seemed to always be searching for that something extra that would complete his setup to his satisfaction.
Not sure that he ever found that missing piece, because he was still looking until - almost literally - the day he died. And because he was always listening so critically, always finding something that he thought could be improved, I'm not sure that he ever really relaxed and just enjoyed listening.
Or is that just the difference between listening actively and passively?
In contrast, I'm just happy to put a CD in my average player, switch on my average amp, and listen to the sounds coming out of my average speakers.
Perhaps that means that my ears aren't educated enough to be critical, to appreciate what's missing or sub-optimal. Perhaps I'd enjoy the experience more if I listened more critically, or perhaps I'd just be forever chasing my version of aural perfection and be forever dissatisfied with what I heard?
Dare I even consider swapping some of my (standard in-the-box) interconnects for something more hifi, or would that be a dangerous first step?
paulf-2007
09-06-2017, 18:53
Welcome to the madhouse Tony. Being a cable skeptic I wouldn't worry about swapping interconnects making any life changing difference. You are in the fortunate position of enjoying music from an 'average ' set up, just carry on enjoying.
Just to add I've spent several thousand pounds to get where I am with my set up and now enjoy it as is and don't stress about it anymore.
walpurgis
09-06-2017, 19:24
There again, it doesn't hurt to have at least half decent cables. Cheap cables and those supplied with equipment often leave something to be desired. Quality cables do not have to cost the earth. In fact there's a good second hand supply on ebay and they are regularly offered here in the Private Exhibitions sales section.
walpurgis
09-06-2017, 19:37
I'm just discovering what my (late) father spent on his hifi setup
Yes. It can come as a shock when the real cost of a system is added up. But bear in mind, that is likely to have been built up over a good few years, so not a huge one off investment. I guess mine, if bought as new equivalents, might be around £18K. I probably spent less than half that by buying mostly used, but that's over very many years.
I think of it like buying a classic car and doing it up. Each weekend you do a bit of work on it then you go for a drive. Over the years you've improved it quite a bit. It isn't the best car in the world but it drives a lot better than it did when you first bought it. But regardless there has never been an occasion when you didn't enjoy driving it, even if you know it could be better.
The alternative is just buy a new car and drive it, and never tinker.
Both approaches are valid and I don't think the tinkerer enjoys his drive any less for it.
Michael loves music
09-06-2017, 20:35
Old hifi equipment attractive women and cars in that order for me
Old hifi equipment attractive women and cars in that order for me
I'll take them in any order they come.
I'm embarrassed to say what I have spent on my system(s), but I have a lot of gear and the expenditure has been made over the forty five year period of my interest in audio. But I derive enormous amount of pleasure from my systems; either one of which is often in use for several hours a day.
One thing I do like to do is to 'tinker' with pick-up arms and cartridges, regarding that pastime as little different to tasting different clarets or whisk(e)ys.
walpurgis
09-06-2017, 22:28
Whisky makes me SPU! :D
Whisky makes me SPU! :D
Boom Boom!
Ronksley
10-06-2017, 00:55
Whisky makes me SPU! :D
You Should stick to Whiskey maybe? cant stand that filth myself
Give me a Scotch any day
As I have no cash have make do with what I have
Last night I got in bed and put some Bach on it was glorious
The important thing is to enjoy what you have
These days I think the record is the most important thing listening to Buffalo Springfield again on youtube and loving it
One has to look at ones own path to see what happens, and what can happen, and your own journey may have a similarity to mine..
In the days of the radio-gram, with uncles and a Father both interested in Hi-Fi, one could hear that the latter was better. Then as adulthood approached, in my case coinciding with a musical and political revolution, there was another change, the appearance of warehouses selling Hi-Fi at reduced margins and high volume.
At that time 'everybody' was enthusing about the revelations that were obtainable from this Hi-Fi, now not beyond the reach of people. My peers all were comparing and buying both equipment and the revelatory art, and we really did hear more detail and hence the intentions of the artists.
Surely though there is a limit to this, and we can continue to improve a system to the point of criticising the artistic aspiration and production, and it can become an obsession, and even a distraction from the original intent.
I argue that the artistic creativity has declined, often music having been hi-jacked by corporations, and with little control given to the artists.
The result is poorer art, with IMO little real depth, and recordings which we now are readily able to criticise on technical grounds, (but ironically with much better equipment available with which to produce it.
So I ask, if you are going to drink poison, does it really matter what the spoon is made of, or whether or not it is clean?
What I have now is enough for me to know that most broadcast material is utterly flawed on SQ grounds, and that the material I hear is worse for me, because I am able to hear the banality of the artist's efforts clearly, the over use of samplers, the voice correction, and the clichéd drivel churned out, and with all its technical flaws.
I think of it like buying a classic car and doing it up. Each weekend you do a bit of work on it then you go for a drive.
I can relate to that comparison @Macca - I did try the classic car thing a while back. And decided that I preferred to drive a more reliable car in more comfort, and I'd just enjoy looking at other people's classic cars at shows!
I argue that the artistic creativity has declined, often music having been hi-jacked by corporations, and with little control given to the artists.
The result is poorer art, with IMO little real depth, and recordings which we now are readily able to criticise on technical grounds, (but ironically with much better equipment available with which to produce it.
This is probably veering away from the original question a bit, but whilst I see your point, I'd argue that the *average* quality of the art has declined due to the amount of poor art that is now available, due to the increased number of channels to market and the reduced costs of creating and publishing the art, but there's probably still the same amount of really "good" stuff out there.
Back in the day, there were far fewer releases, and it was a lot easier to sort the good from the poor (whether in terms of personal taste, production quality, or whatever). Today, there are probably still as many "good" artists/releases but it's now a lot harder to find them amongst the dross.
soundsheavenly
10-06-2017, 20:09
Old hifi equipment attractive women and cars in that order for me
Couldn't have put it better myself!
My hifi "journey" was restless (and hence expensive!) for the first few years, until I realised that I didn't need to be always searching for something "better" but for something that better suited my tastes - I was surprised how quickly my current system (now unchanged for over 10 years in the main listening room) settled into something I could enjoy every day once I shifted my approach a little. We are all different, but for me, accepting a component that was "good" but not "great" because I liked the sound really improved my enjoyment of the music.
One example was going from a huge set of floorstanders to my tiny Royd Minstrels and losing the bottom octave in the process. My favourite 1980's pop tracks didn't suffer and room placement/conditioning became much easier. The music seemed to come to life in my head when I listened and I realised that I wanted the timing and precision of the Royds above anything else. I can't see any scenario when I would willingly sell those speakers now, or the fairly humble 30 year old B&O system they are connected to. For me, in my lounge, they make me fall in love with my music, over and over again.
Off to play "Silver Blue" by Roxette on 12" single........ :)
Kind regards, Steve
I think of it like buying a classic car and doing it up. Each weekend you do a bit of work on it then you go for a drive. Over the years you've improved it quite a bit. It isn't the best car in the world but it drives a lot better than it did when you first bought it. But regardless there has never been an occasion when you didn't enjoy driving it, even if you know it could be better.
The alternative is just buy a new car and drive it, and never tinker.
Both approaches are valid and I don't think the tinkerer enjoys his drive any less for it.
Perfectly summed up Macca [emoji1303]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
... if you're a real "hifi" obsessive?
I ask this because I'm just discovering what my (late) father spent on his hifi setup, and how he seemed to always be searching for that something extra that would complete his setup to his satisfaction.
Not sure that he ever found that missing piece, because he was still looking until - almost literally - the day he died. And because he was always listening so critically, always finding something that he thought could be improved, I'm not sure that he ever really relaxed and just enjoyed listening.
Or is that just the difference between listening actively and passively?
In contrast, I'm just happy to put a CD in my average player, switch on my average amp, and listen to the sounds coming out of my average speakers.
Perhaps that means that my ears aren't educated enough to be critical, to appreciate what's missing or sub-optimal. Perhaps I'd enjoy the experience more if I listened more critically, or perhaps I'd just be forever chasing my version of aural perfection and be forever dissatisfied with what I heard?
Dare I even consider swapping some of my (standard in-the-box) interconnects for something more hifi, or would that be a dangerous first step?
You describe your father as listening as if something was missing, as if he were always searching for that missing piece. Well, I can't speak for him, but for me it's not exactly the case.
I install my latest upgrade and listen, and am usually wowed by the improvement! I am enjoying the music more than ever! And it makes me think, how much better can it get? What if I improve this other part? Will that bring me even more pleasure? How much better can it get?
I am perfectly pleased with my stereo, and love the music it makes! But each improvement brings me a little closer to nirvana. I have never regretted a single purchase so far, each and every upgrade I have carefully chosen has been well worth the cost. I listened to my stereo today, and am still amazed at how great it sounds! Certain passages still wow me, catch me off guard and "Reach Me". But as soon as it's over, I wonder, how much better will it sound after my next upgrade?
Audiophilia is a sickness, no matter how good it gets, I will always wonder if it could be Better. I'm not disappointed, if I never added another single thing to my system I could die happy! But, as a hobby, I am driven to squeeze a bit more from it. Much like a race car guy will try to get that last 100th of a second out of his car.
As far as cables go, you don't have to spend a fortune to get good cables. And most decent cables are better than the "stock" cables they give you with gear. Try an affordable used set and see what you think. There is a sense of satisfaction when you do something and it makes an improvement. A sense of accomplishment.
mikecole
14-06-2017, 21:10
... until I realised that I didn't need to be always searching for something "better" but for something that better suited my tastes
100% percent agree there. That is the point at which I finally started liking what I bought :-)
Whenever I sit in front of my stereo and listen, I generally end up listening more to the sound rather than the music. That is when I start picking out faults. If I mildly occupy my mind with something else, like looking at photos or surfing the net, and I have the music turned down to a quieter level, I find that the music is so much more engaging. And then I realize just how great my system really is (to me).
Haselsh1
14-06-2017, 21:19
Could it be that it is the music that gives me pleasure and not the hi-fi...? Maybe, but then why waste over ten grand on hi-fi...? My connection is definitely with the music which is why my selection is fairly limited but my hi-fi helps me to hear the music in a way that adds more emotive power and so therefore, more satisfaction. Have I ever reached a point where there is no where else to go...? I am not really sure on that one as I feel I could perhaps improve things with a much better phono stage, the current one built in to the preamp being a bit of a bottleneck but if I just take in to account CD then I now have nowhere else to go. I am where I want to be. Now then, what about that phono stage :eyebrows:
Could it be that it is the music that gives me pleasure and not the hi-fi...?
Well I think that describes me Shaun. I'm interested in Hi-Fi, but I'm obsessed with music.
Haselsh1
15-06-2017, 11:49
Well I think that describes me Shaun. I'm interested in Hi-Fi, but I'm obsessed with music.
Yeah I fully understand your sentiment there which is why I own a Les Paul and play quite badly but still play. I put it through valves of course so that I get that glorious 70's rock sound but I also program loads of techno music in FL Studio 12 as well. On top of that I love analogue synthesisers. I guess in truly technical terms it is not the music I am obsessed with but the sound of the instruments. It's just that noise, I just love it.
I can listen to music on my system now, but it took me taking a step back, doing some big upgrades that I have not felt any need to change for years now. In fact, I fear making a change as I think it could make me start listening to the HiFi instead of the music again, which took me years to get out of doing. It is a poor show listening to vocal sibilance instead of music!
Minstrel SE
15-06-2017, 23:47
I remember being up all night laying out my Naim speaker cable and polishing the REAL wood veneer on my large speakers. I felt a sense of pride that I had Deltron inners well soldered and heatshrinked. Just the right look and Im serious about this I thought :)
My American girlfriend at the time said something along the lines of what do you need all that stuff (rewording it it politely) for as she was happily getting into the Grateful Dead on a radio cassette player. Shes dancing and Im dusting.
She loved the Happy Mondays "Bummed" album but at no point did she comment on my Monitor Audios or amplification sounding good for the money. I was disappointed as that could have cemented our relationship :)
That sort of sums up a period in my life where the equipment took priority. I also had an American Psycho stage where coffee table albums (the usual suspects from the hi fi shows) would make my system sound good. I was losing track of any real taste or experimentation in music. I tried to forget that I had happier times with music on a Sharp rack system...not to say it sounded as good but I was enjoying my Joy Division 12" etc for the great records they were. The level of rumble and fine detail didnt really affect my enjoyment.
I think you can enjoy the music as long as the pursuit of perfect sound hasnt become an obsession. Even at my lowly level I had become unhappy wondering if I should have bought other equipment....I can imagine that this carries on up the exponential price scale while pursuing the dream.
I joke about a Moon Audio installation because it tickles my funny bone for some reason. In all seriousness, I cant afford that sort of equipment but I dont consider my gear as worthless in conveying the music. I suppose it depends if you have been spoilt and what you consider the essence or basis of the music being conveyed.
Ive been to hi fi shows and I know the experience gets more involving with a Nautilus style set up. However its still a lovely moment when I hit the volume sweet spot and my Royds are sounding good for the money.
soundsheavenly
16-06-2017, 05:13
Hi Martin,
Maybe it is something about Royd Minstrels that makes us think "I'm not really going to be able to improve on this sound"......... :smoking:
Kind regards, Steve.
. I also had an American Psycho stage where coffee table albums (the usual suspects from the hi fi shows) would make my system sound good. I was losing track of any real taste or experimentation in music. I tried to forget that I had happier times with music on a Sharp rack systemy.
The biggest pitfall in hi-fi.
Happy Mondays - 'Bummed' - :youtheman:
Haselsh1
16-06-2017, 07:33
LOL... coffee table albums ;)
I have the now standard half speed mastered Boston album from that very period.
Haselsh1
16-06-2017, 07:36
Back in 2003 I did the very unspeakable and removed all hi-fi from my life convinced I could get by just as easily with a Sharp audio thingy. It lasted about a year. I could not get by because I knew every time I listened just what it was I was missing from the music.
Despite the negative post referring to my own last one being slightly off thread, I think that our personal journey must be understood in order to gain a better perspective and understanding of what we are doing with this interest.
We all want to extract the maximum from the source - the art, it excites and enraptures us for numerous reasons.
As we improve the Hi-Fi we extract more, up to a point at which we hear not only the artists intentions, but also his errors, the mistimed parts, and the recording's failings, and this becomes increasingly forensic with better Hi-Fi.
So do we go on and on or do we draw the line at some point?
Minstrel SE
16-06-2017, 17:37
Yes I was going to mention how forensically we want to experience the music. I can understand the search for perfect reproduction of a voice or instrument.
Im not sure how some recordings stand up to the ultimate forensic test.
I admire people with a quality set up and think its fantastic if people want to spend on the very best and push the boundaries on human achievement.
I let my imagination fill in the gaps :) We dont need to spend too much now on decent headphones and a source which gets enough of it through the ears.
I dont drive a Lamborghini Aventador either so Im just going to have to live with it :)
Best wishes to everyone on the forum
Martin
Minstrel SE
16-06-2017, 17:49
The biggest pitfall in hi-fi.
Happy Mondays - 'Bummed' - :youtheman:
Well it was produced by Martin Hannet. I think she picked it out of my varied collection because she kept saying "what a bummer man" and Americanisms like that :)
Im not sure its the archetypal hi fi show album but it is damn good.
Later on The Eagles on a travel mix tape started killing our relationship as I obviously wasnt cool enough for her :) I have a wide taste in music but I just hadnt formulated my cool factor when considering my music collection. The coffee table album stage wasnt long behind me but I was still a bit confused.
Well it was produced by Martin Hannet. I think she picked it out of my varied collection because she kept saying "what a bummer man" and Americanisms like that :)
Im not sure its the archetypal hi fi show album but it is damn good.
Later on The Eagles on a travel mix tape started killing our relationship as I obviously wasnt cool enough for her :) I have a wide taste in music but I just hadnt formulated my cool factor when considering my music collection. The coffee table album stage wasnt long behind me but I was still a bit confused.
With the cool factor I think it is okay to balance it out. Curtis Mayfield will cancel out Dire Straits. Elvis Costello cancels out Sting. And so forth. As long as by the end of the process you have a surfeit of cool: then you have cool tastes.
Minstrel SE
22-06-2017, 14:42
With the cool factor I think it is okay to balance it out. Curtis Mayfield will cancel out Dire Straits. Elvis Costello cancels out Sting. And so forth. As long as by the end of the process you have a surfeit of cool: then you have cool tastes.
Yes Its funny that Martin and so true. I would be very wary of the perfect record collection for show. Younger people can be more blinkered because they are worried about being cool.
Music is a journey of discovery and tastes can change. Some music hasnt stood my test of time and Ive moved on
I am far more relaxed about it now and enjoying music more than ever. Im enjoying Bob Dylan and Joni Mitchell now in a way I never did before. Of course they were always cool but its like Im finally seeing the light as I mature.
All the best
Martin
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