Hi-Fi power supply improvements.

[twelvebears]

Folks.

My system is now very perminantly located in a house that we're going to own for a LONG time, so I'm now considering doing something to improve the mains supply arrangements.

At the moment I've got the common multi-way (admittedly a good one) feeding all components from a single wall socket and I'm sure it's really not doing the sound any favours.

I'm interested in hearing from anyone who's installed a dedecated spur as this is something I could do easily as the main consumer unit is in the same room.

Would also like to hear suggestions on suitable sockets/cable etc.

[Ammonite Audio]

My mate Steve (Snoopdog) has just done this in his house, so hopefully he'll chip in with some thoughts.

[DSJR]

A good electrician will advise best legal practise, but I've had good results (on gear that is sensitive to it) having a dedicated 30A ring with a number of unswitched sockets mounted neatly on a suitable board, an isolating switch covering the whole assembly.

I didn't like a "spur" arrangement, but others have no difficulty at all, so it's up to you..

[Stratmangler]

Recent thread about it http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5105

Chris:)

[Mike Reed]

STEVE

I would suggest you read that recent thread obligingly linked by Chris above.

For what it's worth, my contribution is on page 4.

Seriously, I think you need to very carefully consider what you may need in the future, as it'll be cheaper to get it done at one go.

Find the route any cables have to take from your meter (or near it) to the hifi area. If this entails going outside the house, you'll need hefty armoured cable (just one!!!)

10mm twin & earth is considered best otherwise; one for each piece of kit is as good as it gets. Hard-wiring mains leads to patresses near your hifi is, in my opinion, better than sockets, plugs and fuses because you are protected by an RCBO in the consumer unit and the fuse in your kit. Others may disagree that this is enough security, though.

Your electrician, don't forget, is just that; an electrician. NOT a hifi mains installer, so it's best to know what you want before calling him in.

Another way is to run one bloody great cable into the hifi area and site your consumer unit there. Still prefer one cable - one mains lead - one piece of kit, though.

[Snoopdog]

My mate Steve (Snoopdog) has just done this in his house, so hopefully he'll chip in with some thoughts.

My meter and incoming supply is situated in a cupboard under the stairs and is only a short journey through the wall into my now, dedicated, music room.

My specification was only for a single socket supply in the listening room, situated by the hi fi equipment stand. I favoured a dual radial supply from a dedicated consumer unit, rather than a spur and this is what I ended up with.

The components used were a MEM AP4 consumer unit fitted with a single MEM MBH132 B32A MCB with MR30 field fit RCBO kit. There is of course room for three additional MCB/RCBO's if I wished to expand the number of dedicated cale feeds in the future. Anyone considering more spurs/dual radials, should specify a six way or larger consumer unit.

Instead of heavy guage T&E cable I went with an RS Components twin shielded cable with 20amp rating (identical to that used by MusicWorks for their ReCoil mains power cord. Two identical 1.8M runs originate at the MEM consumer unit and terminate at a rather expensive outlet called 'The Lens' designed by Paul Chand and incorporating high precision ceramic isolation bearings, a floating alluminium alloy front plate and solid PTFE middle and rear section. The idea being to attempt to isolate the socket outlet from vibrations in the wall. The RS cable shield is connected to earth at the CU end only, so acts as a drain rather than a shielded cable.

If anyone is interested I will post some pictures of the installation.

The result has been very satisfying with much greater detail retrieval and noise reduction compared to the house ring main.

I use a Vertex Elbrus mains balanced PSU to supply my hi fi with power from the single wall outlet.

Steve

[Mike Reed]

My specification was only for a single socket supply in the listening room, situated by the hi fi equipment stand. I favoured a dual radial supply from a dedicated consumer unit, rather than a spur and this is what I ended up with.

Instead of heavy guage T&E cable I went with an RS Components twin shielded cable with 20amp rating (identical to that used by MusicWorks for their ReCoil mains power cord. Two identical 1.8M runs originate at the MEM consumer unit and terminate at a rather expensive outlet called 'The Lens' designed by Paul Chand and incorporating high precision ceramic isolation bearings, a floating alluminium alloy front plate and solid PTFE middle and rear section.

The idea being to attempt to isolate the socket outlet from vibrations in the wall.

The RS cable shield is connected to earth at the CU end only, so acts as a drain rather than a shielded cable.


Steve

This one baffles me, I'm afraid, Steve.

Firstly, do you live on a tectonic plate fault line, or even have heavy lorries rumble past, shaking your house? I can't imagine ordinary unswitched sockets, plugs and fuses interrupting the flow much in a 'trembling' wall. If this is indeed possible, then more's the case for hard-wiring, surely, or maybe a 'floating' socket (not attached to the wall).

Secondly, you mention 'dual radial' supply as opposed to 'spur', whereas it's evident that you only have ONE radial circuit (though I may have got the wrong end of the stick here). A SPUR is an offshoot from an established ring main, I believe (although the word is commonly misused).

Thirdly, as I (and most people who have installed a la Roy Riches' philosophy) have 32 amp RCBOs in my C U, I imagine you must have a much lower specified breaker/RCD (20 amp?) to match your lower specified cable.

I must admit, Steve, that I've not come across this method for dedicated mains before (not that I'm an expert in any sense). That your installation shows marked improvement on your previous ring mains connection, however, surely evidences the benefits of ANY approach to isolating one's hifi from the domestic supply.

[Ali Tait]

Yes,generally,a spur is a single cable to a socket tapped off an existing
ring circuit.A radial circuit is a socket run from a cable direct from your consumer unit.

[twelvebears]

Yes,generally,a spur is a single cable to a socket tapped off an existing
ring circuit.A radial circuit is a socket run from a cable direct from your consumer unit.

Thanks Ali, that explains the difference nicely and a radial circuit is what I'll be going for.

[Marco]

Yes,generally,a spur is a single cable to a socket tapped off an existing
ring circuit.A radial circuit is a socket run from a cable direct from your consumer unit.

Mmm...... Thanks, Ali. I'll need to remember that. Whenever I refer to my dedicated mains set-up as a "separate spur", what I really mean is a radial circuit! :)

The only difference is, my 'radial circuit' is a 16mm armoured cable direct from my incoming mains supply straight into a dedicated CU for my system, which all the mains leads for my components are then hard-wired into with individual 63A MCBs - there ain't no 'socket run' ;)

Marco.

P.S Steve, mate, got your PM - been busy, but will reply later!

[Ali Tait]

Being the only country in Europe that uses ring circuits,I was told that this practice was adopted during the war,to save copper.Prior to that,radial circuits were the norm,as they always have been elsewhere.I would guess a radial circuit would indeed be the best way to go for your purpose.

[Marco]

Cheers. That's what I thought, too!

Any views on the pros and cons of multiple radial circuits, as opposed to a single one? I have my own thoughts on the matter and just wondered what yours were :)

Marco.

[Ali Tait]

Ain't got a clue! Guess I'd have to try both and see.

[Mike Reed]

Yes,generally,a spur is a single cable to a socket tapped off an existing
ring circuit.A radial circuit is a socket run from a cable direct from your consumer unit.

A SPUR is also a single cable taken off ANY part of the ring main; not just a socket. A three-way connecting block is then used (but not live!!!!!)

MARCO,

Regardless of your armoured cable, it's a separate circuit in its own right, surely, and therefore is a radial circuit; it sure as hell ain't a ring 'cos it don't come back agin!

I've been pointing out this 'spur' anomaly for quite a time now; here and on PFM. It's something I didn't know a year or two back, but it's quite logical, if you think about it.

I have read of someone creating a separate hifi ring main incorporating sockets in series then going back to the board (CU), but I cannot think that it doesn't defeat one purpose whilst enabling another.

Single or multiple cables? Do you really need to audition? Isn't it logical to have as much uninterrupted flow going to as few pieces of kit as possible?

I rest my case.

[Ali Tait]

A SPUR is also a single cable taken off ANY part of the ring main; not just a socket. A three-way connecting block is then used (but not live!!!!!)

MARCO,

Regardless of your armoured cable, it's a separate circuit in its own right, surely, and therefore is a radial circuit; it sure as hell ain't a ring 'cos it don't come back agin!

I've been pointing out this 'spur' anomaly for quite a time now; here and on PFM. It's something I didn't know a year or two back, but it's quite logical, if you think about it.

I have read of someone creating a separate hifi ring main incorporating sockets in series then going back to the board (CU), but I cannot think that it doesn't defeat one purpose whilst enabling another.

Single or multiple cables? Do you really need to audition? Isn't it logical to have as much uninterrupted flow going to as few pieces of kit as possible?

I rest my case.

Err with regard to the start of your post, re-read my post.That's what I said.Also,you would connect sockets in a ring in parallel,not series.

BTW,in case you're not aware,I work in the electricity supply industry.

[Dave Hewitt]

Hi Ali
Its quite true what yousay regarding ring main sockets being in parrallel but it does appear that they are in series
to the layman.Also dont see how a spur can be connected without live.
regards Dave.

[Ali Tait]

I meant a single twin-and-earth cable i.e. not a ring.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I tell you what, what with my thread and this one I am really bloody baffled by all this .. We need an audiophile spark, someone who has tinkered in thier own home with a veriety of options... Shall I see if I can blah guy to buy an expensive hifi?! Surely there is a difinitive answer? Or is it yet another kit dependant variable to tackle?

[anthonyTD]

hi all,
IMHO a ring main with the same thickness wire as a spur will always have a lower impedance because as others have rightly said a ring is basicaly two runs of cable in parallel, one from the consumer unit to the sockets and one back from the sockets to the the consumer unit. hence a ring will have a higher current capability than a spur run of the same thickness cable.:)
A...

[Marco]

Hi Mike,


Single or multiple cables? Do you really need to audition? Isn't it logical to have as much uninterrupted flow going to as few pieces of kit as possible?


Yes, but that's only part of the story. As usual, it's not as simple as that ;)

Marco.

[Ali Tait]

Very true.However I don't think it will make a difference sonically TBH.I doubt anyone could hear the difference between a radial and a ring.

[Steve Toy]

I doubt anyone could hear the difference between a radial and a ring.

One way to find out. Marco, could you possibly bring two runs of your finest 10mm twin and earth?

[Marco]

Don't see why not :)

Marco.

P.S so when are we 'doing the necessary', then?

[twelvebears]

Mmm...... Thanks, Ali. I'll need to remember that. Whenever I refer to my dedicated mains set-up as a "separate spur", what I really mean is a radial circuit! :)

The only difference is, my 'radial circuit' is a 16mm armoured cable direct from my incoming mains supply straight into a dedicated CU for my system, which all the mains leads for my components are then hard-wired into with individual 63A MCBs - there ain't no 'socket run' ;)

Marco.

P.S Steve, mate, got your PM - been busy, but will reply later!

Cheers Marco.

Any chance you could post a few snaps of your wiring arrangement? I'm interested to see what it looks like.

S.

[Snoopdog]

This one baffles me, I'm afraid, Steve.

Firstly, do you live on a tectonic plate fault line, or even have heavy lorries rumble past, shaking your house? I can't imagine ordinary unswitched sockets, plugs and fuses interrupting the flow much in a 'trembling' wall. If this is indeed possible, then more's the case for hard-wiring, surely, or maybe a 'floating' socket (not attached to the wall).

Secondly, you mention 'dual radial' supply as opposed to 'spur', whereas it's evident that you only have ONE radial circuit (though I may have got the wrong end of the stick here). A SPUR is an offshoot from an established ring main, I believe (although the word is commonly misused).

Thirdly, as I (and most people who have installed a la Roy Riches' philosophy) have 32 amp RCBOs in my C U, I imagine you must have a much lower specified breaker/RCD (20 amp?) to match your lower specified cable.

I must admit, Steve, that I've not come across this method for dedicated mains before (not that I'm an expert in any sense). That your installation shows marked improvement on your previous ring mains connection, however, surely evidences the benefits of ANY approach to isolating one's hifi from the domestic supply.

Hi Mike,

Point One. No. I don't fear seismic anomolies in my installation, but I am a firm believer in keeping vibration to an absolute minimum, hence my extensive use of Stillpoints technology throughout my system. I don't mind others taking the piss, but it is a simple fact that 'The Lens' wall outlet (designed to isolate the outlet from the wall) sounds superior to a bog-standard 13amp socket (to my ears anyway!). I live in a modern house and the wall through which my dedicated mains travels from CU to hi fi is stud/block/stud construction and acoustic pressure inside the listening room will vibrate the stud wall.

Point Two. As I understand it, a dual radial supply incorporates TWO runs of cable from CU to a single outlet. I suppose if there were more than one outlet, it would be called a ring. I listened to a single run of cable from CU to wall outlet (Spur) and the twin run, which halves the impedance and doubles the current capacity, and preferred the sound of the dual radial supply to my hi fi.

Point Three. As the cable run is doubled up (40amps), hence the inclusion of a 32amp RCD/RCBO at the CU.

Regards

Steve

[Ali Tait]

Hi Steve,
A single run from the CU to your socket is a radial circuit,not a spur.A spur is a socket tapped off an existing ring circuit.

Not having a go,just don't want peeps getting confused.:)

[Snoopdog]

Ali,

Not being an electrician myself, I bow to your superior knowledge and stand corrected.

My own confusion arises from installations that have been described as dedicated spurs, where multiple single runs of cable have originated at seperate MCB'S at the CU and terminated at seperate wall outlets in the listening room or a single run has been hard-wired to a hydra-like arrangement to feed seperate system components..

I was attempting to describe my own installation where a double run of cable originates from a single MCB/RCBO at the CU and terminates in a single wall outlet (a dual radial).

[Ali Tait]

Yes,I guess you could call that a dual radial,or a ring feeding just one socket.Strictly speaking I'm not an electrician,more an electrical fitter.I deal with high-voltage substations etc.While I have fair theoretical knowledge of domestic installations,I have next to no practical experience,nor do I have 17th edition,so I'm not a real expert by any means!

[Marco]

Hi Steve,


I was attempting to describe my own installation where a double run of cable originates from a single MCB/RCBO at the CU and terminates in a single wall outlet (a dual radial).

What thickness of cable are you using, 6mm, 10mm, or what?

You can obtain the same effect as your double run of cable in a dual-radial installation by using a single run of very heavy-duty cable direct from the incoming mains supply to a dedicated CU, such as the 16mm armoured cable used in my set-up. It just depends how you want to do it :)

The impedance on my mains supply has been measured at .32 ohms, so it doesn't get much lower! ;)

The biggest difference in lowering the impedance on your mains supply I've found is by installing a separate earth for your hi-fi system via a series of (long and thick) copper earth rods plunged as deep as possible into the soil in your garden (using 6mm earth cable to connect them all together and then feed the cable back to a dedicated CU) - and making sure that the soil around them is kept wet.

This has a far greater effect, in terms of lowering impedance, than whatever mains wiring circuit you employ - but the combination of both is ideally what you're looking for!

I also hard-wire my component mains leads directly into separate 63A MCBs inside my dedicated Memera CU (not 32A RCBOs), which also makes a difference, as the extra protection circuitry inside RCBOs raises impedance more.

You just have to decide what you think will work best and go for it! :cool:

ABOVE ALL THOUGH, MAKE SURE THAT ALL WORK IS CARRIED OUT BY A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN - AND ALSO THAT YOU ARE HAPPY WITH THE COMPROMISES TO SAFETY THIS TYPE OF INSTALLATION INVOLVES!!!

Marco.

[Snoopdog]

Marco,

Here is a link to the RS cable I have in my installation (the same as used by MusicWorks for their ReCoil mains power cord). The cable I used has also been subject to DCT.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=5176247&cm_vc=av_uk

I have 25mm live and neutral meter tails, 100A incoming fuse and 100A DP Isolator switch on the MEM CU.

My Hi Fi MCB is rated at 32A but I understand that the RCBO field fit kit is rated at 63A.

I have not had a seperate earth spike installed as I want to research this option further and I have to say that the dedicated installation as it presently exists, is a serious improvement over my former house ring mains connection to the hi fi.

I agree that you just have to decide what works best and go for it.

There are those that swear by a dedicated spur and others (like me) who prefer the sound of a ring.

[Steve Toy]

P.S so when are we 'doing the necessary', then?

How about either this coming Tuesday or the one after?

[Marco]

Toyster, see yer email ;)

Snoops,


There are those that swear by a dedicated spur and others (like me) who prefer the sound of a ring.


Yup. My view though is that you get "the sound of a ring" with a dedicated single spur/radial circuit if you use a thick enough supply cable (which negates the benefits of a double run of thinner cable on a ring) :)

Marco.

[Mike Reed]

Err with regard to the start of your post, re-read my post.That's what I said.Also,you would connect sockets in a ring in parallel,not series.

Have been out of this thread loop for a day or two.

Sorry, Ali; I did misread your post, and mine too, as I meant 'a series (string) of sockets'.

NOT being an electrician, I believe a ring, with its sockets in parallel, actually reduces the impedance. Ergo, a ring (of suitably heavy ,say 10mm) cable should theoretically be better than a radial circuit. I'm sure, though, as Marco would say, 'there's more to it than that'.

Of electricians, though, those who attended my last three hi-fi mains installations in this house thought I was eccentric at best, though they executed their safety and regulatory duties well enough.

[Mike Reed]

Hi Steve


The impedance on my mains supply has been measured at .32 ohms, so it doesn't get much lower! ;)

The biggest difference in lowering the impedance on your mains supply I've found is by installing a separate earth for your hi-fi system via a series of (long and thick) copper earth rods plunged as deep as possible into the soil in your garden (using 6mm earth cable to connect them all together and then feed the cable back to a dedicated CU) - and making sure that the soil around them is kept wet.

This has a far greater effect, in terms of lowering impedance, than whatever mains wiring circuit you employ - but the combination of both is ideally what you're looking for!

I also hard-wire my component mains leads directly into separate 63A MCBs inside my dedicated Memera CU (not 32A RCBOs), which also makes a difference, as the extra protection circuitry inside RCBOs raises impedance mo

Marco.

Yes, that takes some beating; though I haven't measured mine, I doubt it'll achieve that value.

You could be right about your multiple earth spikes in tandem (I've only one), but it's interesting that you have yours connected at the CU end. Ah, yes, of course this is also the business (hifi) end.

Although mu CU is connected to the house earth in the garage twelve metres of cable away, I bring in my spike earth virtually to my hard-wiring patresses. I must admit that I don't know if this would influence anything one way or another.

I'd also not twigged that RCBOs (32 amp, anyway) would increase the impedance, but I suppose almost any 'connection' can potentially do that.

[Ali Tait]

Have been out of this thread loop for a day or two.

Sorry, Ali; I did misread your post, and mine too, as I meant 'a series (string) of sockets'.

NOT being an electrician, I believe a ring, with its sockets in parallel, actually reduces the impedance. Ergo, a ring (of suitably heavy ,say 10mm) cable should theoretically be better than a radial circuit. I'm sure, though, as Marco would say, 'there's more to it than that'.

Of electricians, though, those who attended my last three hi-fi mains installations in this house thought I was eccentric at best, though they executed their safety and regulatory duties well enough.


Yes,I'd say a ring would offer a lower impedance,as you are in effect doubling the amount of copper going back to the house earth.Steve,if you do make this comparison,you'd need to have the ring cable half the gauge of the radial,so the test would be an equal playing field i.e. each has the equivalent amount of copper going back to the house earth.That way it would purely be on the sonic merits of each connection type.

[Spence]

I too have just upgraded my mains supply, with great results.

I installed a 6way consumer unit fitted with 4 32a RCBO's. Each RCBO feeds one single unswitched socket. I only used 6mm cable but still found the improvements to be very worthwhile.

This, to me anyway, seemed the most logical way in ensuring a cleaner supply.

I do admit though that the electrician thought I was crackers.

[Marco]

Lol - most do! Luckily, mine is a personal friend and also a hi-fi buff/music lover into the bargain... That comes in handy!! ;)

Well done, though, and I wish you many happy hours rediscovering your music collection :cool:

Marco.

[Mike Reed]

I too have just upgraded my mains supply, with great results.

I installed a 6way consumer unit fitted with 4 32a RCBO's. Each RCBO feeds one single unswitched socket. I only used 6mm cable but still found the improvements to be very worthwhile.

This, to me anyway, seemed the most logical way in ensuring a cleaner supply.

I do admit though that the electrician thought I was crackers.

Brilliant. Yet another advocate. Did you put a dedicated earth spike in, I wonder?

Nothing wrong with 6mm; Quite possibly 10 mill is a bit over the top, but what the Hell.....

[Spence]

Did you put a dedicated earth spike in, I wonder?

No, didn't do that, only a separate earth block, maybe next time but need to sort speakers and amp first. But that's a different story..:)

Spence..

[hifinutt]

i have upgraded my mains to good effect by a dedicated power supply , i also have a earth rod several metres under my hi fi which my sigmas is connected to

i found the controversial russ andrews to have some good info in his information hub

http://www.russandrews.com/viewindex.asp?lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&article_id=pgabout&customer_id=PAA2619011310430DFTVUYGKLOMXLBQB

[Dave Hewitt]

Question for Marco.
Tell me what happens if you get a fault on any of your equipment that is hard wired to 63 amp mcb,does it trip or catch fire?are there any fuses in line?Been discusing this with electrical engineer today and he thinks the method you are using is against the regs.
With your safety in mind Dave.

[Alex_UK]

:eek: Frying tonight!

bY0oM0FwGUo

[Marco]

Question for Marco.
Tell me what happens if you get a fault on any of your equipment that is hard wired to 63 amp mcb,does it trip or catch fire?are there any fuses in line?Been discusing this with electrical engineer today and he thinks the method you are using is against the regs.
With your safety in mind Dave.

Hi Dave,

All my equipment is fused as standard, but gets switched off when I'm not in the room, or transferred to a mains block connected to the ordinary house ring main (one or the other), so there's no risk. And if anything caught fire when I was there I'd be in a position to do something about it.

I've had this set-up now for many years and there's never been a problem. You just have to be fully aware of the potential risk and treat the set-up with care and respect. I appreciate that this would not be possible for everyone. I can only do it because I have a dedicated room purely for listening to music in, so I can always keep an eye on things :cool:

Marco.

[twelvebears]

i have upgraded my mains to good effect by a dedicated power supply , i also have a earth rod several metres under my hi fi which my sigmas is connected to

i found the controversial russ andrews to have some good info in his information hub

http://www.russandrews.com/viewindex.asp?lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&article_id=pgabout&customer_id=PAA2619011310430DFTVUYGKLOMXLBQB

Reasonably sensible advice from Russ but I did chuckle that he recommended the for 'best value for money and effort' you should 'start at the Hi-Fi system and work back towards the consumer unit'

Personally I can't help think that on the basis of 'crap in, crap out', the best thing would be to do the exact opposite and get the basics right first?

Any chance Russ' suggestion has anything to do with the fact that CUs are the one bit he doesn't sell?

[Dave Hewitt]

Hi Marco
How do you connect hard wired components to a mains block when you leave the room ?and where are your fuses fitted?you cant disregard regs one minute and then switch to comply and even if you are there youcant disconnect it all if afault occurs,something not correct here.
Your safety is paramount,Regards Dave.

[twelvebears]

Has anyone got views on, or experience of using either mains conditioners/filters or the more extreme Power Regeneration units?

[Marco]

Hi Marco
How do you connect hard wired components to a mains block when you leave the room ?and where are your fuses fitted?you cant disregard regs one minute and then switch to comply and even if you are there youcant disconnect it all if afault occurs,something not correct here.
Your safety is paramount,Regards Dave.

Hi Dave,

My apologies for not being clearer before. When I go away from home or leave the room for any length of time I disconnect the hard-wired mains leads from my equipment and use a set of bog-standard ones I've got, and then plug those into the mains block which is connected to the normal house ring main. My system is then as safe as houses when I'm not there to keep an eye on things. The other option I have when I'm away is to switch off the dedicated CU and kill the power to the whole system.

As for your other point, I agree, but I'm happy that what I'm doing is safe for me, therefore there's not much point in discussing this any further. Mr Walker has a similar arrangement in place at his.

Thanks for your concern, though :)

Marco.

[Ali Tait]

Ok fair enough,but if something happened because of this,safety aspects aside,you are aware it would render your insurance null and void?

[Marco]

Hi Ali,

Yes it's a chance I take and it's my risk, which has been very carefully considered. Remember that I use my system in a dedicated room and not in an area such as a living room where others also are, particularly children.

The above aside, the fact is, with the way I do things (as explained above), if anything did go wrong I'd be in the room when it happened and thus in a position to do something about it. Another thing to bear in mind is that most of my equipment is about six and a half feet up in the air on Mana racks, well away from anything else!! ;)

However, this is worth repeating again in no uncertain terms (for the benefit of everyone):

I NEVER LEAVE MY SYSTEM UNATTENDED FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME WHEN CONNECTED TO MY OPTIMISED MAINS SET-UP.

The above is written in bold in order to reiterate this to anyone thinking of adopting the same set-up method - and indeed they would do so ENTIRELY AT THEIR OWN RISK!

Marco.

[Snoopdog]

Has anyone got views on, or experience of using either mains conditioners/filters or the more extreme Power Regeneration units?

I use a Vertex Elbrus Point3 balanced PSU to distribute power to my hi fi components. This is connected to my single dedicated wall outlet by a modified, fused Music Works ReCoil DCT mains power cord.

The preamp, transport and DAC are fed from the balanced supply and the power amp and tt PS are fed from the two 'unrestricted' outlets on the Elbrus.

This allows me to isolate my digital components from everything else and each other. Also my power amp cannot feed any noise back into the source components.

It's an arrangement that works extremely well in my system and the benefits include greatly lowered system noise level, with great ebb and flow to the music.

Some more info here:- http://www.vertexaq.com/index.php?option=com_products&page=product_details&catid=8&prodid=12&Itemid=33

[DarrenHW]

Nearly 12 months ago I installed a dedicated HiFi Ring Main with 4mm T&E as this was the largest diametre wire I could back feed into the consumer unit. The reason I installed a ring main was three fold, i,I have a system in the Lounge and one in the Kitchen, ii, to compensate for only using 4mm T&E, iii, as I was already running one cable it was the same amount of work to run another, it's easier to pull a cable out than it is to put one in!

Yesterday I eventually got round to disconnecting the link, creating two radial circuits, albeit both fed from the same MCB, but I don't listen to both at the same time. This has yielded a significant improvement to both systems. I have recently picked up a mains filter which offered an improvement when plugged into the ring but the results differ now I have two radial circuits. The Oppo is now better not plugged into the filter (more vibrant, tigher bass, more detail), but the TV is still improved by being plugged into the filter.
Marco - Before you give me both barrels, this is just in the testing stage, I promise the dirty TV won't remain connected :sofa:.

Everything else has remained constant, same sockets, same T&E, same routing, but the improvement for me of going from a ring to a radial has been significant.

[Marco]

Lol - I've only just seen this! You're basically playing around with impedances, mate. Just trust what your ears tell you sounds best, and go with it.

Anyway, where are you with things now, some 20 days on since you posted the above? :)

Marco.

[DarrenHW]

20 days later things are pretty much the same, I've picked up another mains filter, a Belkin Isolator PureAV. I've spent the last few weeks running power through all the sockets, today I'm hoping to find some time to find the best sockets for each piece of kit that will be plugged in, so far it seems like a good improvement over the previous filter. I only have SKY and the TV plugged into it, I'll try the Oppo in there again just to be sure now everything should be burnt in, but the last time I tried it in the filter the picture was better but the sound was worse so I left it plugged straight into the wall.

[DaveD]

My meter and incoming supply is situated in a cupboard under the stairs and is only a short journey through the wall into my now, dedicated, music room.

My specification was only for a single socket supply in the listening room, situated by the hi fi equipment stand. I favoured a dual radial supply from a dedicated consumer unit, rather than a spur and this is what I ended up with.

The components used were a MEM AP4 consumer unit fitted with a single MEM MBH132 B32A MCB with MR30 field fit RCBO kit. There is of course room for three additional MCB/RCBO's if I wished to expand the number of dedicated cale feeds in the future. Anyone considering more spurs/dual radials, should specify a six way or larger consumer unit.

Instead of heavy guage T&E cable I went with an RS Components twin shielded cable with 20amp rating (identical to that used by MusicWorks for their ReCoil mains power cord. Two identical 1.8M runs originate at the MEM consumer unit and terminate at a rather expensive outlet called 'The Lens' designed by Paul Chand and incorporating high precision ceramic isolation bearings, a floating alluminium alloy front plate and solid PTFE middle and rear section. The idea being to attempt to isolate the socket outlet from vibrations in the wall. The RS cable shield is connected to earth at the CU end only, so acts as a drain rather than a shielded cable.

If anyone is interested I will post some pictures of the installation.

The result has been very satisfying with much greater detail retrieval and noise reduction compared to the house ring main.

I use a Vertex Elbrus mains balanced PSU to supply my hi fi with power from the single wall outlet.

Steve

I am about to put in a dedicated mains spur to my hi-fi. Just interested to know if you feel 'The Lens' is worth adding? Thanks.
Dave.

[Barry]

"Vibrations in the wall"? - any effect that would have on the mains supply sounds a bit far fetched to me. Also, if the shield of the twin core mains cable is connected to earth only at the CU, how is the earth pin of the socket connected?

I use a dedicated ring for my system with its own RCB unit, separate from the rest of the household wiring.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

"Vibrations in the wall"? - any effect that would have on the mains supply sounds a bit far fetched to me. Also, if the shield of the twin core mains cable is connected to earth only at the CU, how is the earth pin of the socket connected?

I use a dedicated ring for my system with its own RCB unit, separate from the rest of the household wiring.

Not just a bit, very far fetched. Whilst one can yield some improvements from mains filters etc, studying and improving
what then is the end result, namely circuitry labeled as DC but really in the majority of cases still containing AC ripple content
is where the real action is. A whole field of new discovery awaits.

Cheers / Chris