View Full Version : general election
May got 44% which is the same vote percentage as Thatcher got in 1983
Despite being rubbish. This to me says more about Corbyn and that some people just won't vote for him regardless of how poor the other option is. What we just had was his high water mark IMO.
If they had put up a Blair Mark 2 he would have done better, possibly even got a majority.
This to me says more about Corbyn and that some people just won't vote for him regardless of how poor the other option is.
Well, that's one (anti-Corbyn) way of looking at things, I guess... ;)
Also, May got 42.4% of the vote, not 44%, see here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2017/results
Another way of looking at it would be that the 40% of the vote Corbyn received was more than Tony Blair did in one of his winning elections! You can twist stats many different ways to bias the outcome.
At the end of the day, the Tories got their arses royally spanked, and lost an election that they should've had in the bag, until May went on her disastrous 'campaign trail' and ably showed everyone what a cold, clueless cow she is!! :D
The most heartening thing for me was how switched on the youth were during this election, and how they wanted to register their dismay at the system. Tuition fees aside, that was a BIG reason why they voted Labour. The Tories losing Kensington was also another big slap in the face for the establishment.
[How I laughed].
Marco.
You don't think the Labour Party are a part of the Establishment then?
In a way they all are [part of the system], but their policies, unlike those of the Tories, aren't designed to pander to the establishment's best interests.
Marco.
Think this thread may as well run up to the next election, few months time perhaps ? . Marco you stated that the tories lost
the election, is that factually correct ?
In terms of seats [ultimately what matters most], yes. As far as that goes, they came out of the election with considerably less than they went in with, some 32 seats less, so that's an EPIC FAIL, and a MAJOR LOSS in anyone's book!
You've only 'won' if you come out of something better than you went into it, which clearly with this election, the Tories haven't....
That they are now cobbling together some kind of coalition government with the DUP, is neither here nor there, especially as they've lost their majority and will now be heavily controlled by both the DUP itself and all other non-Tories in the House of Commons.
Hardly any kind of a 'victory'...
Marco.
walpurgis
11-06-2017, 11:08
I wonder if George Osborne sensed a disaster in the air and made his move to the Evening Standard last month because of it. Good timing anyway.
• Canterbury (Labour)
• Oxford West & Abingdon (Lib Dems)
• Battersea (Labour)
• Warwick & Leamington (Labour)
• Reading East (Labour)
• Portsmouth South (Labour)
• Enfield Southgate (Labour)
• Stockton South (Labour)
• High Peak (Labour)
• Bristol North West (Labour)
• Colne Valley (Labour)
• Bath (Lib Dems)
• Stroud (Labour)
• Ipswich (Labour)
• Crewe & Nantwich (Labour)
• Keighley (Labour)
• Kingston & Surbiton (Lib Dems)
• Warrington South (Labour)
• Cardiff North (Labour)
• Peterborough (Labour)
• Twickenham (Lib Dems)
• Lincoln (Labour)
• Bedford (Labour)
• Weaver Vale (Labour)
• Brighton Kemptown (Labour)
• Eastbourne (Lib Dems)
• Plymouth Sutton & Devonport (Labour)
• Bury North (Labour)
• Vale of Clwyd (Labour)
• Croydon Central (Labour)
• Derby North (Labour)
• Gower (Labour).
Plus Kensington (to Labour), which must not have made the list above, as the result arrived so late. So, in actuality, they lost 33 seats in this election. 'Pish' doesn't cover it! :D
Marco.
She s clearly made a massive fool of herself and fair play to Corbyn he clearly out campaigned her.
But its still 318 tories 262 Labour and there still in government …… JUST
But without them having the necessary working majority, to properly enforce their policies, it means little.
As an aside, I wonder how many gay people (men and women), who voted Tory in this election, would have done so if they'd thought that the staunchly anti-gay DUP would've ended up as being part of the equation....?
And here's the thing... When (not if, for me) we have another general election in six months time, how many of them will vote Labour, in order to get the DUP out?
Even aside from the gay aspect, there's the anti-abortion thing too, and various other 'unsavoury' and controversial aspects of the DUP, which their new-founded alliance with the Tories, will turn off many Tory voters, so that in itself will have a significant bearing on the outcome of the next election, and not in the Tories favour either!
Fundamentally, Tory voters voted for a Tory-only government, not for the DUP to tag along too, so *that* (rather important) issue is going to have to be addressed, and sooner rather than later.
Marco.
walpurgis
11-06-2017, 11:29
Philip May looks rather different since he gave up the day job.
http://i63.tinypic.com/spdtnr.jpg
Maybe, but here s another point, now peeps have seen Jeremy so close to power how may hands are going
to tremble when they go to place there cross on the ballot paper for Labour. Not younger people i m sure
but more older folk who voted for them to punish May for her dementia tax, etc. , assuming that the con s
make a better fist of there manifesto next time of course ! Interesting times!
chris@panteg
11-06-2017, 11:59
But without them having the necessary working majority, to properly enforce their policies, it means little.
As an aside, I wonder how many gay people (men and women), who voted Tory in this election, would have done so if they'd thought that the staunchly anti-gay DUP would've ended up as being part of the equation....?
And here's the thing... When (not if, for me) we have another general election in six months time, how many of them will vote Labour, in order to get the DUP out?
Even aside from the gay aspect, there's the anti-abortion thing too, and various other 'unsavoury' and controversial aspects of the DUP, which their new-founded alliance with the Tories, will turn off many Tory voters, so that in itself will have a significant bearing on the outcome of the next election, and not in the Tories favour either!
Fundamentally, Tory voters voted for a Tory-only government, not for the DUP to tag along too, so *that* (rather important) issue is going to have to be addressed, and sooner rather than later.
Marco.
Absolutely right Marco, this is a dangerous alliance and there is the question of rising tensions amongst the Republican community in northern Ireland as well, oh what a poisoned chalice the tories are drinking from.
But without them having the necessary working majority, to properly enforce their policies, it means little.
As an aside, I wonder how many gay people (men and women), who voted Tory in this election, would have done so if they'd thought that the staunchly anti-gay DUP would've ended up as being part of the equation....?
And here's the thing... When (not if, for me) we have another general election in six months time, how many of them will vote Labour, in order to get the DUP out?
Even aside from the gay aspect, there's the anti-abortion thing too, and various other 'unsavoury' and controversial aspects of the DUP, which their new-founded alliance with the Tories, will turn off many Tory voters, so that in itself will have a significant bearing on the outcome of the next election, and not in the Tories favour either!
Fundamentally, Tory voters voted for a Tory-only government, not for the DUP to tag along too, so *that* (rather important) issue is going to have to be addressed, and sooner rather than later.
Marco.
Major's government relied heavily on the Unionists for 4 years, this is nothing new. You need a parliamentary majority to pass new legislation (assuming it is opposed and not everything is), but you can govern without it.
The reactionary views of the DUP are fairly irrelevant. Even with their assistance it would be impossible to get anti-gay legislation through the Commons, let alone the Lords. That isn't going to be something they will be asking for. NI already has different laws on such matters anyway. Their entire concern will be the NI situation.
Ask yourself this: would Labour have done a deal with the DUP if it was the only way they could get a working majority? I suspect yes.
Sorry, Martin, my views on that are more in line with those of Chris (above).
Also, it not about passing anti-gay/abortion laws, of course that would never happen; it's about gay/pro-abortion Tory voters, and those who fundamentally disagree with DUP policies, finding this new 'alliance' rather distasteful, and when given an appropriate opportunity, voting them out.
I believe that when May's time is up, and a second election is called, the above will have a significant bearing on the outcome.
Marco.
Stratmangler
11-06-2017, 13:04
I believe that when May's time is up, and a second election is called...
Another election?
Unlikely before the next one is due, in 5 years time.
If May goes it will be business as usual, with whoever gets voted in as Conservative party leader.
Oh yes. All those hordes of tory voters for whom lesbian and gay rights are such an important issue...don't think so somehow.
Trump says he is not going to come here if anyone protests against him;)
Oh yes. All those hordes of tory voters for whom lesbian and gay rights are such an important issue...don't think so somehow.
So you don't think that, UK wide, there would've been a significant number of gays and lesbians who voted Tory? It would be interesting to see the stats (were such things available). Who got in, in Brighton, for example - was it Tory or Labour? I haven't checked.
Marco.
Brighton was won by Green Party again.
I suspect there are very few L & G Tory voters although never seen any stats.
Another election?
Unlikely before the next one is due, in 5 years time.
If May goes it will be business as usual, with whoever gets voted in as Conservative party leader.
I don't think that the Tories current deal with the DUP is workable in the long term [time will tell], and if you research the views of political analysts, you'll find that many think another election is imminent, once Brexit is out the way.
Marco.
Brighton was won by Green Party again.
I suspect there are very few L & G Tory voters although never seen any stats.
"Suspect" based on what though, guesswork? Do you have anything more tangible to back up your opinion? I think you'd more likely find that, as L&Gs make up a significant proportion of the UK population, so they also make up a significant proportion of the electorate.
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
11-06-2017, 13:33
I'm hoping for a second election very soon under the circumstances. Mayhem is a dead duck PM and must go. Corbyn is on a roll and should easily win next time and hopefully be the best PM since Clem Atlee. He ticks all the boxes for me and with the superb manifesto placed before the people in this last election should win by a landslide!
It seems the DUP are even bigger tossers than the tories and are climate change deniers, anti abortion, creationists (FFS!) and homophobes whose elevation to greater power will upset the peace process in NI... typical of tory scum to get into bed with such low life!
I'm hoping for a second election very soon under the circumstances. Mayhem is a dead duck PM and must go. Corbyn is on a roll and should easily win next time and hopefully be the best PM since Clem Atlee. He ticks all the boxes for me and with the superb manifesto placed before the people in this last election should win by a landslide!
It seems the DUP are even bigger tossers than the tories and are climate change deniers, anti abortion, creationists (FFS!) and homophobes whose elevation to greater power will upset the peace process in NI... typical of tory scum to get into bed with such low life!
Spot on, and it is the sum total of *that*, which out with of L&Gs, will turn off many other voters, Tory and otherwise. Few, before this election took place, would've wanted the DUP as part of the equation in our government, and having a significant influence over policy decisions.
Therefore, there is no doubt in my mind that if we get another election in 6 months time or so (as seems likely), particularly if the forthcoming Brexit negotiations don't go well, the Tories will lose (no matter WHO is at the helm) - and LOSE ROYALLY....
:exactly:
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
11-06-2017, 13:45
Spot on, and it is the sum total of *that*, which out with of L&Gs, will turn off many other Tory voters. There's is no doubt in my mind that if we get another election in 6 months time or so, particularly if the forthcoming Brexit negotiations don't go well, the Tories will lose (no matter WHO is at the helm) - and LOSE ROYALLY....
:exactly:
Marco.
I'm hoping more for meyhem having to go within a week or so! And if Corbyn can take Kensington it should be a Labour landslide victory in the re-run!
"Suspect" based on what though, guesswork? Do you have anything more tangible to back up your opinion? I think you'd more likely find that, as L&Gs make up a significant proportion of the UK population, so they also make up a significant proportion of the electorate.
Marco.
No just a guess, although looking more closely suggests I am wrong. According to this https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/23/tories-level-labour-gay-vote an estimated equal number (26%) voted Labour as Tory in 2015 and the gay vote in USA is estimated at 5% of the electorate (could not find a UK figure) - so if all gay voters who previously voted tory were to shun them it would cost them (based on the same 48 million turnout) 480,000 votes. Although that assumes all gay voters actually vote. Even if only 50% voted that is still a significant loss of votes.
Yup, that's what I had suspected :)
So you have to consider the possible impact of that, if we get a second election. Like you say though, it would depend on how many of them voted, but my guess would be that many would, and perhaps some of the ones who normally don't, would do, to try and oust the (anti-gay) DUP.
From what I know of gay people, they tend to be highly emotive and principled characters, so would take a rather dim view of wanting anyone in government who's fundamentally against them.
Marco.
That is worst case though. If you knock of another 50% for those for whom it is not enough of a concern to stop them voting Tory and spread the remainder around all the constituencies it becomes less of a factor. And I don't ever recall it being raised as an issue with the John Major government. The DUP have not changed one bit since then. Ian Paisley was still running about in those days!
Do people on mainland UK care about Ulster politics anyway? It's like a separate political box that we never want to open because it all looks a bit strange and weird in there.
Well, I guess we'll all find out in the fullness of time, and I suspect sooner rather than later :)
Marco.
That is worst case though. If you knock of another 50% for those for whom it is not enough of a concern to stop them voting Tory and spread the remainder around all the constituencies it becomes less of a factor. And I don't ever recall it being raised as an issue with the John Major government. The DUP have not changed one bit since then. Ian Paisley was still running about in those days!
That might be because under John Major the Conservatives had an overall majority over all other parties and didn't need the support of the DUP to stay in power. Also, back then, the relatively sane Ulster Unionist party had more MPs than the DUP.
Indeed. The fact is, the DUP currently being 'tagged onto' the Tories is likely to be significantly unpopular, and isn't doing them any favours in the eyes of the majority of the electorate.
Marco.
It's a desperate measure working with the DUP and doomed to failure, a coalition of chaos.
Funny how May used this slogan 'coalition of chaos ' as a beating stick for Corbyn during the campaign but unfortunately she has poked herself in the eye with same stick!:lol:
It's a desperate measure working with the DUP and doomed to failure, a coalition of chaos.
Funny how May used this slogan 'coalition of chaos ' as a beating stick for Corbyn during the campaign but unfortunately she has poked herself in the eye with same stick!:lol:
Not to mention labelling Corbyn as a 'friend of terrorists'! That'll go down in the Big Book of PKB.
Register, folks, and sign the petition.....
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/don-t-let-the-dups-views-infiltrate-british-politics?utm_source=email&utm_medium=blast&utm_campaign=11_6_2017_flt&bucket=email-blast-11_6_2017_flt&utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=blast2017-06-11
Feedback from the petition:
"Bloody right I do, having to put up with these bigoted, homophobic asshats in my own country is one thing, but having them form the new Government just proves how desperate May is to say in power, it's actually quite sad and pathetic tbh but also really, really dangerous".
SIGN NOW and get rid of the DUP (and May), ASAP! :cool:
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
11-06-2017, 16:54
It's time to stop all this bickering and back-biting. Who gives a fuck who did what 20 or 30 years ago. Time to move forwards. Of course some cannot bring themselves to even try. Honestly, you're all like a bunch of spoilt children. Words like scum, I hope they get cancer. No better than any of them.
It's time to stop all this bickering and back-biting.
Sorry, John, I don't see that, just a robust debate amongst folks, some of whom have different views.
Who gives a fuck who did what 20 or 30 years ago. Time to move forwards. Of course some cannot bring themselves to even try. Honestly, you're all like a bunch of spoilt children.
Again, sorry, I don't see the relevance of those comments.
Words like scum, I hope they get cancer (what a sick-fuck Arkless is). No better than any of them.
I agree that the cancer comment was out of order, and grimaced when I read it.
I'll go and delete it now, as it is OTT, but calling Jez a "sick fuck" in return isn't helping either, is it? How would you expect him to respond? That's a rhetorical question, btw. Jez, I would ask that you refrain from responding.
So I suggest we all stop the personal insults and stick to discussing the thread topic.
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
11-06-2017, 17:14
Sorry, John, I don't see that, just a robust debate.
Again, sorry, I don't see the relevance of those comments.
I agree that the cancer comment was out of order, and grimaced when I read it. I'll go and delete it now, as it is OTT, but calling Jez a "sick fuck" isn't helping either, is it? How would you expect him to respond? That's a rhetorical question, btw. Jez, I would ask that you refrain from responding.
So I suggest we all stop the personal insults and stick to discussing the thread topic.
Marco.
Hadn't seen the post..... I'll leave it at that...
prestonchipfryer
11-06-2017, 17:18
Thanks for deleting the nasty comment. No my remark about the member isn't helping. But those sort of opinions have no place in any reasoned debate. Once people make those sort of comments then, as far as I'm concerned, they have lost any credibility and are not to be taken seriously.
Fairness is something that comes with knowing how unfair life is. Patience is something that comes with knowing what to wait for. Knowing what to say is something that, in all honesty, I'm not very good at sometimes. If I've offended anyone with my remark then I apologise.
If there is to be a robust debate then it must not contain references to hoping people get this terrible disease. It's extremely offensive. And I mean OFFENSIVE.
Yes, I agree, especially for those of us here (and I'm sure there are many) who've lost loved ones to it.
Marco.
Not to mention labelling Corbyn as a 'friend of terrorists'! That'll go down in the Big Book of PKB.
Some of the 'friends' of the DUP are not very pleasant so by association the nasty party gets even nastier!
walpurgis
11-06-2017, 17:38
Some of the 'friends' of the DUP are not very pleasant so by association the nasty party gets even nastier!
Yep. I reckon that's about the size of it.
+1. If I were a Tory voter, I'd be sickened now that I've effectively also voted in the DUP... I strongly disagree with all of their policies and what they stand for, and I'll certainly not be alone.
Marco.
martian sunrise
11-06-2017, 18:16
the zombie thatcher's record on lgbt rights is pretty contemptible, to say the least - i doubt that many of them are voting for the tories.
Cannot see it as a happy marriage tbh, but you never know. Shit happens
Arkless Electronics
11-06-2017, 18:38
Sorry, John, I don't see that, just a robust debate amongst folks, some of whom have different views.
Again, sorry, I don't see the relevance of those comments.
I agree that the cancer comment was out of order, and grimaced when I read it.
I'll go and delete it now, as it is OTT, but calling Jez a "sick fuck" in return isn't helping either, is it? How would you expect him to respond? That's a rhetorical question, btw. Jez, I would ask that you refrain from responding.
So I suggest we all stop the personal insults and stick to discussing the thread topic.
Marco.
I hope you will also delete the offensive comment aimed at me.
"terrible disease"... yes well me best mates gone into hospital this afternoon for a cancer operation tomorrow. Was only diagnosed about a month ago.... Good thing the nasty party haven't destroyed the NHS.. YET.... They're working on it...
I hope you will also delete the offensive comment aimed at me.
Sure. Fair's fair. Just wanted to make sure you'd seen it first :)
Totally agree with your point about the NHS.
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
11-06-2017, 21:31
Just saw this https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/11/arlene-fosters-stance-on-paramilitary-groups-brought-into-question Mayhems new pals! I guess we don't pay much attention to N.I politics here in UK, I'd heard the initials and knew they were on the "no to united Ireland" camp, anti gay marriage etc, but that was about it... but for maybot to call Corbyn out for having "some dodgy friends" and then form a gov with this lot :eek: Another opinion piece I just read reckoned even many Tory mp's will find them too extreme and this coalition could be over tout sweet....
...hence why, post-Brexit (nothing will happen before then, as that would be crazy), there'll be another general election, and this time, because of the shambles that the Tories are in, a RESOUNDING Labour win! :yay:
Marco.
chris@panteg
12-06-2017, 08:55
I'm still trying to take in what's happened in this election, but we can say that the Conservative party has gone in seven weeks from being in the most formidable position since 1983 to a minority government with a potentially toxic alliance, extraordinary really.
What happens next, I've got to say I know some find politics boring but this is fascinating, and I am worried.
walpurgis
12-06-2017, 09:00
What happens next, I've got to say I know some find politics boring but this is fascinating, and I am worried.
Looks like the DUP may get their 'moment of glory', however brief that might turn out to be. Months at most?
I'm still trying to take in what's happened in this election, but we can say that the Conservative party has gone in seven weeks from being in the most formidable position since 1983 to a minority government with a potentially toxic alliance, extraordinary really.
What happens next, I've got to say I know some find politics boring but this is fascinating, and I am worried.
An undeniably accurate précis, which is why only the Tory diehards and deluded could view the results of this election as representing in any way a Conservative 'victory'... :mental:
As for what happens next, well, when Arlene Foster meets with May, to discuss her proposals, and trust me she'll want to milk it for all she can get, that's when we'll see whether a suitable deal can be done.
I suspect that one will be forthcoming, as right now the Tories need the DUP, but that any deal struck (and subsequent relationship) won't be sustainable in the long term, simply because many of the DUPs more radical policies aren't compatible both with the majority of Tories, and more importantly, the majority of their voters and the electorate.
The fact is, no-one voted for a Tory/DUP alliance. It's an untenable situation in the long, or even I suspect, medium term, which is why a second election, post-Brexit, is imminent.
Marco.
Spectral Morn
12-06-2017, 09:54
I have to say that my perception of this thread has taken a dive for the worst. There has been a veiled anti Irish aspect and less veiled anti Christian aspect and frankly I think it pretty hypocritical to lambast the DUP and then throw unpleasant bigoted views out at the same time just from a different angle.
The people of Northern Ireland are part of the UK, they have a right to have a say in the governance of the UK. After all London isn't a London centric dictatorship.... or is it ;) ? We have a UK democracy with some powers devolved, but London still calls the shots. The people of Wales, Scotland and Cornwall have a right so why not the folks of Ulster who identify as being British not Irish. I think most of the folks in the old kingdoms get annoyed when southern English complain about those countries having a say in English/London politics. Its the UK folks, keep that in mind. The capital is London and the UK is mostly ruled from London. No one from the other places should be excluded from a say in my view. To do so is arrogant and elitist.
The DUP would say they are respecters of the law and are not involved with terrorists, unlike Sinn Fein which is the political wing of the IRA, they are for all intents and purposes the IRA. Now some members of the DUP hold very conservative Christian views, which I personally as a Christian don't hold to or find very difficult. I also don't particularly want any political party to ram their views down others throats. Faith and what one believes or doesn't believe is a matter of conscience, and while it will inform individuals world views, how they vote, live etc I don't feel it should be forced on folks who don't share those views. Equally atheist views should not be rammed down folks throats either. Its a hard balancing act but governance should be for all.
Have the DUP in the past as a party and individuals within it crossed the line re involvement with Loyalist groups, yes they have, but the labour leader has been involved with and supported the IRA, PLO and other terrorists and there is also more than a whiff of anti Semitism to be found in Labour party politicians and others. Mainland parties are not clean either, having been in bed with world Governments and individuals who are not very savoury either. Has anyone in politics got totally clean hands ? Probably not.
At the minute currently I am disenfranchised politically as I can't vote DUP, will not vote Sinn Fein and the other parties are all but non existed. I do resent greatly that none of the mainland parties organise here, so NI politics are kept insular and at an arms length from the mainland politics. That is hardly fair.
Northern Ireland is a complicated topic but I would appreciate less of what I am perceiving as an anti Irish tone in this thread, whether intended or not that is how I am seeing it.
On a personal note I think those who don't believe in creation and God have greater faith than I do. Do I make nasty, hateful comments about their beliefs ? No I don't, so I would appreciate it if others kept faith out of this, and ridiculing faith too.
The cancer comment was by the way despicable.
chris@panteg
12-06-2017, 11:14
Neil, I certainly don't want to come across as anti irish! I am opposed to the Conservative party and just think they would put their own party 1st above the national interest, they are taking a risk, another gamble.
Spectral Morn
12-06-2017, 11:45
Neil, I certainly don't want to come across as anti irish! I am opposed to the Conservative party and just think they would put their own party 1st above the national interest, they are taking a risk, another gamble.
Chris in some areas they will, as are other parties, but they are also capable of national UK interest as well, after all they are a Union party, and consider themselves to be British, not Irish.
I have to say that my perception of this thread has taken a dive for the worst. There has been a veiled anti Irish aspect and less veiled anti Christian aspect and frankly I think it pretty hypocritical to lambast the DUP and then throw unpleasant bigoted views out at the same time just from a different angle.
The people of Northern Ireland are part of the UK, they have a right to have a say in the governance of the UK. After all London isn't a London centric dictatorship.... or is it ;) ? We have a UK democracy with some powers devolved, but London still calls the shots. The people of Wales, Scotland and Cornwall have a right so why not the folks of Ulster who identify as being British not Irish. I think most of the folks in the old kingdoms get annoyed when southern English complain about those countries having a say in English/London politics. Its the UK folks, keep that in mind. The capital is London and the UK is mostly ruled from London. No one from the other places should be excluded from a say in my view. To do so is arrogant and elitist.
The DUP would say they are respecters of the law and are not involved with terrorists, unlike Sinn Fein which is the political wing of the IRA, they are for all intents and purposes the IRA. Now some members of the DUP hold very conservative Christian views, which I personally as a Christian don't hold to or find very difficult. I also don't particularly want any political party to ram their views down others throats. Faith and what one believes or doesn't believe is a matter of conscience, and while it will inform individuals world views, how they vote, live etc I don't feel it should be forced on folks who don't share those views. Equally atheist views should not be rammed down folks throats either. Its a hard balancing act but governance should be for all.
Have the DUP in the past as a party and individuals within it crossed the line re involvement with Loyalist groups, yes they have, but the labour leader has been involved with and supported the IRA, PLO and other terrorists and there is also more than a whiff of anti Semitism to be found in Labour party politicians and others. Mainland parties are not clean either, having been in bed with world Governments and individuals who are not very savoury either. Has anyone in politics got totally clean hands ? Probably not.
At the minute currently I am disenfranchised politically as I can't vote DUP, will not vote Sinn Fein and the other parties are all but non existed. I do resent greatly that none of the mainland parties organise here, so NI politics are kept insular and at an arms length from the mainland politics. That is hardly fair.
Northern Ireland is a complicated topic but I would appreciate less of what I am perceiving as an anti Irish tone in this thread, whether intended or not that is how I am seeing it.
On a personal note I think those who don't believe in creation and God have greater faith than I do. Do I make nasty, hateful comments about their beliefs ? No I don't, so I would appreciate it if others kept faith out of this, and ridiculing faith too.
The cancer comment was by the way despicable.
Thank you Neil for posting.
I have to say my blood was starting to boil but didn't wan't to reply in anger. You have said it succinctly and camly. Well done you!
And you're right, governance should be for all no matter what our beliefs or lifestyles. I learned a bit from that. Thanks.
Spectral Morn
12-06-2017, 11:59
Thank you Neil for posting.
I have to say my blood was starting to boil but didn't wan't to reply in anger. You have said it succinctly and camly. Well done you!
And you're right, governance should be for all no matter what our beliefs or lifestyles. I learned a bit from that. Thanks.
Thank you.
Maybe we should count our blessings:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40246754
'A man accused of posting blasphemous content to Facebook has been sentenced to death by a court in Pakistan.
Taimoor Raza was convicted after allegedly posting remarks about the Prophet Muhammad, his wives and companions within the site's comments'.
All he said was that bit of halibut was good enough for Mohammed...
Spectral Morn
12-06-2017, 13:40
Probably a bit extreme
Even accurately commenting on the foundations and history of that topic could see one put to death.
Anyway off topic.
Arkless Electronics
12-06-2017, 15:32
I have to say that my perception of this thread has taken a dive for the worst. There has been a veiled anti Irish aspect and less veiled anti Christian aspect and frankly I think it pretty hypocritical to lambast the DUP and then throw unpleasant bigoted views out at the same time just from a different angle.
The people of Northern Ireland are part of the UK, they have a right to have a say in the governance of the UK. After all London isn't a London centric dictatorship.... or is it ;) ? We have a UK democracy with some powers devolved, but London still calls the shots. The people of Wales, Scotland and Cornwall have a right so why not the folks of Ulster who identify as being British not Irish. I think most of the folks in the old kingdoms get annoyed when southern English complain about those countries having a say in English/London politics. Its the UK folks, keep that in mind. The capital is London and the UK is mostly ruled from London. No one from the other places should be excluded from a say in my view. To do so is arrogant and elitist.
The DUP would say they are respecters of the law and are not involved with terrorists, unlike Sinn Fein which is the political wing of the IRA, they are for all intents and purposes the IRA. Now some members of the DUP hold very conservative Christian views, which I personally as a Christian don't hold to or find very difficult. I also don't particularly want any political party to ram their views down others throats. Faith and what one believes or doesn't believe is a matter of conscience, and while it will inform individuals world views, how they vote, live etc I don't feel it should be forced on folks who don't share those views. Equally atheist views should not be rammed down folks throats either. Its a hard balancing act but governance should be for all.
Have the DUP in the past as a party and individuals within it crossed the line re involvement with Loyalist groups, yes they have, but the labour leader has been involved with and supported the IRA, PLO and other terrorists and there is also more than a whiff of anti Semitism to be found in Labour party politicians and others. Mainland parties are not clean either, having been in bed with world Governments and individuals who are not very savoury either. Has anyone in politics got totally clean hands ? Probably not.
At the minute currently I am disenfranchised politically as I can't vote DUP, will not vote Sinn Fein and the other parties are all but non existed. I do resent greatly that none of the mainland parties organise here, so NI politics are kept insular and at an arms length from the mainland politics. That is hardly fair.
Northern Ireland is a complicated topic but I would appreciate less of what I am perceiving as an anti Irish tone in this thread, whether intended or not that is how I am seeing it.
On a personal note I think those who don't believe in creation and God have greater faith than I do. Do I make nasty, hateful comments about their beliefs ? No I don't, so I would appreciate it if others kept faith out of this, and ridiculing faith too.
The cancer comment was by the way despicable.
As it was me who originally made "the cancer comment" I'll point out it was aimed at those who would vote Tory EVEN knowing that hundreds or thousands would likely commit suicide due to cuts in benefits and medical care, losing their social housing etc, AND still couldn't care less about the fate of such people. If such people can callously come the "I'm alright Jack, fuck you if you're poorer than me, I'll be alright cos I can afford private heath care" on the poorest and most vulnerable in society and on those who will die waiting for an operation (like my dad did)... then I curse such people. The privileged and wealthy who back the Tories may not directly wish death upon the poor, the disabled, the sick, the mentally ill etc but Tory policies cause just this! I've heard estimates of hundreds just for those who committed suicide over having to leave their homes due to Tory bedroom tax! What's the worst that happens to Tories if a Labour gov gets in? Can't afford the Bahamas and have to slum it in the Canaries? Have to put off replacing the Bentley for another year? Oh dear what a pity never mind.....
Like many in the Labour movement, although not in the slightest anti Semitic, I support the struggle of the Palestinian people to regain their occupied country. An analogy; lets say Wales was invaded by a foreign power and then declared a "homeland" for lets say Hindu's... that the indigenous Welsh were then regarded as 2nd class citizens in their own country, that the best homes and farmland were seized from the Welsh and given to immigrant Hindu's, that the foreign power who made this happen then supplied the new immigrant population with such military technology that the Welsh could never even hope to successfully rise up against their occupiers... Is that fair, just or right? Not in my view! No country should exist based on a belief that only members of a certain religion will be full citizens with full rights and privileges and that goes for both Israel and any Islamic caliphate!!
Personally,yes I'm anti all religion, a belief I have every right to hold. All religions see only their own followers as being "truly worthy", as "the chosen ones", "god's people", "one from the 144 tribes" etc many see unbelievers as "unclean", "infidels", "blasphemers". So many wars throughout history have come about due to religion, including The Troubles!
On a wider note here Corbyn has tried to act as a peacemaker for decades and in order to do so has had to engage with some fairly unsavoury characters. At least he made the effort! Was he supposed to call IRA etc a pack of bastards, tell them he hates them, and then say now lets talk peace? Not going to work really is it.... Thatcher actually engaged with the IRA through intermediaries for years and then Major and Blair went on to get a peace deal. I wonder if the early intervention of Corbyn actually helped to pave the way for peace? Hopefully.
If I'm correctly interpreting that you believe in creationism then I am aghast! That the human race, the planet and the universe is only 10,000 years old? That dinosaurs didn't exist? That Darwin is completely wrong?
Spectral Morn
12-06-2017, 15:37
As it was me who originally made "the cancer comment" I'll point out it was aimed at those who would vote Tory EVEN knowing that hundreds or thousands would likely commit suicide due to cuts in benefits and medical care, losing their social housing etc, AND still couldn't care less about the fate of such people. If such people can callously come the "I'm alright Jack, fuck you if you're poorer than me, I'll be alright cos I can afford private heath care" on the poorest and most vulnerable in society and on those who will die waiting for an operation (like my dad did)... then I curse such people. The privileged and wealthy who back the Tories may not directly wish death upon the poor, the disabled, the sick, the mentally ill etc but Tory policies cause just this! I've heard estimates of hundreds just for those who committed suicide over having to leave their homes due to Tory bedroom tax! What's the worst that happens to Tories if a Labour gov gets in? Can't afford the Bahamas and have to slum it in the Canaries? Have to put off replacing the Bentley for another year? Oh dear what a pity never mind.....
Like many in the Labour movement, although not in the slightest anti Semitic, I support the struggle of the Palestinian people to regain their occupied country. An analogy; lets say Wales was invaded by a foreign power and then declared a "homeland" for lets say Hindu's... that the indigenous Welsh were then regarded as 2nd class citizens in their own country, that the best homes and farmland were seized from the Welsh and given to immigrant Hindu's, that the foreign power who made this happen then supplied the new immigrant population with such military technology that the Welsh could never even hope to successfully rise up against their occupiers... Is that fair, just or right? Not in my view! No country should exist based on a belief that only members of a certain religion will be full citizens with full rights and privileges and that goes for both Israel and any Islamic caliphate!!
Personally,yes I'm anti all religion, a belief I have every right to hold. All religions see only their own followers as being "truly worthy", as "the chosen ones", "god's people", "one from the 144 tribes" etc many see unbelievers as "unclean", "infidels", "blasphemers". So many wars throughout history have come about due to religion, including The Troubles!
On a wider note here Corbyn has tried to act as a peacemaker for decades and in order to do so has had to engage with some fairly unsavoury characters. At least he made the effort! Was he supposed to call IRA etc a pack of bastards, tell them he hates them, and then say now lets talk peace? Not going to work really is it.... Thatcher actually engaged with the IRA through intermediaries for years and then Major and Blair went on to get a peace deal. I wonder if the early intervention of Corbyn actually helped to pave the way for peace? Hopefully.
If I'm correctly interpreting that you believe in creationism then I am aghast! That the human race, the planet and the universe is only 10,000 years old? That dinosaurs didn't exist? That Darwin is completely wrong?
To curse people in such away, the cancer comment is unjustifiable, you can't justify, but you have tried to.
I am not going to engage with you Jez.
Arkless Electronics
12-06-2017, 15:37
Maybe we should count our blessings:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40246754
'A man accused of posting blasphemous content to Facebook has been sentenced to death by a court in Pakistan.
Taimoor Raza was convicted after allegedly posting remarks about the Prophet Muhammad, his wives and companions within the site's comments'.
I rest my case as to why I'm personally anti all religion!
Arkless Electronics
12-06-2017, 15:51
To curse people in such away, the cancer comment is unjustifiable, you can't justify, but you have tried to.
I am not going to engage with you Jez.
That's your choice and your right. My best mate is on the operating table as I type this being treated for cancer. If the Tories had their way there would have been such cut backs he probably would die without private heath care. My curse is on those (and I hope it's a small minority!) who would say "great. I'm happy to see that happen. Bring it on. Poor = you die if you get ill. I've no problem with that".
RothwellAudio
12-06-2017, 15:55
What's the worst that happens to Tories if a Labour gov gets in? Can't afford the Bahamas and have to slum it in the Canaries? Have to put off replacing the Bentley for another year? Oh dear what a pity never mind.....
The Conservatives got 13.7 million votes. Are all those voters slumming it in the Canaries instead of the Bahamas and driving Bentleys for an extra year before replacing them? Do they all have private health care?
Or maybe they just thought the Conservatives would do a better job of running the country. That doesn't make them evil scum.
However, I do think you're right that Jeremy Corbyn was unjustly vilified in the press as an apologist for terrorists. The peace in NI was brought about by doing exactly what Corbyn advocated. Talking.
Arkless Electronics
12-06-2017, 16:39
The Conservatives got 13.7 million votes. Are all those voters slumming it in the Canaries instead of the Bahamas and driving Bentleys for an extra year before replacing them? Do they all have private health care?
Or maybe they just thought the Conservatives would do a better job of running the country. That doesn't make them evil scum.
However, I do think you're right that Jeremy Corbyn was unjustly vilified in the press as an apologist for terrorists. The peace in NI was brought about by doing exactly what Corbyn advocated. Talking.
A hyperbole to make a point. I doubt many of the super rich vote Labour! (yes some do... there is the "champagne socialist" trope). My point (obviously) is that those wealthy enough to own their own detached home and have 2/3 cars can afford to lose a bit and still be doing damn well. If a Labour gov gets in and increases taxes for their socio-economic group then they are hardly going to slum it... For those living in a cockroach infested damp bedsit and have trouble affording even bus fare then losing even £10 a week due to Tory cuts would be truly disastrous! And yes I've been there... In the 4th wealthiest country in the world no one should have to rely on food banks, be homeless, have to live in a damp squalid bedsit. I'm no "full on communist" who would have wealth redistributed until everyone lives in an identical 2 bedroom flat with a state provided Trabant... But I do think there needs to be significant wealth redistribution. No one should have to live such a deprived life that ending it seems a viable option... or that a year in prison would seem only different, rather than worse, from the quality of their daily life ;)
A hyperbole to make a point.
Probably best to avoid doing that in a political discussion.
Crazy extremist talk is not likely to win anyone over to your side of the argument.
prestonchipfryer
12-06-2017, 17:00
That's your choice and your right. My best mate is on the operating table as I type this being treated for cancer. If the Tories had their way there would have been such cut backs he probably would die without private heath care. My curse is on those (and I hope it's a small minority!) who would say "great. I'm happy to see that happen. Bring it on. Poor = you die if you get ill. I've no problem with that".
You are an embarrassment for decency.
Lets try to avoid personal comments and try to address the arguments people are making. I'm going to delete any further such comments without warning.
As it was me who originally made "the cancer comment" I'll point out it was aimed at those who would vote Tory EVEN knowing that hundreds or thousands would likely commit suicide due to cuts in benefits and medical care, losing their social housing etc, AND still couldn't care less about the fate of such people. If such people can callously come the "I'm alright Jack, fuck you if you're poorer than me, I'll be alright cos I can afford private heath care" on the poorest and most vulnerable in society and on those who will die waiting for an operation (like my dad did)... then I curse such people. The privileged and wealthy who back the Tories may not directly wish death upon the poor, the disabled, the sick, the mentally ill etc but Tory policies cause just this! I've heard estimates of hundreds just for those who committed suicide over having to leave their homes due to Tory bedroom tax! What's the worst that happens to Tories if a Labour gov gets in? Can't afford the Bahamas and have to slum it in the Canaries? Have to put off replacing the Bentley for another year? Oh dear what a pity never mind.....
Like many in the Labour movement, although not in the slightest anti Semitic, I support the struggle of the Palestinian people to regain their occupied country. An analogy; lets say Wales was invaded by a foreign power and then declared a "homeland" for lets say Hindu's... that the indigenous Welsh were then regarded as 2nd class citizens in their own country, that the best homes and farmland were seized from the Welsh and given to immigrant Hindu's, that the foreign power who made this happen then supplied the new immigrant population with such military technology that the Welsh could never even hope to successfully rise up against their occupiers... Is that fair, just or right? Not in my view! No country should exist based on a belief that only members of a certain religion will be full citizens with full rights and privileges and that goes for both Israel and any Islamic caliphate!!
Personally,yes I'm anti all religion, a belief I have every right to hold. All religions see only their own followers as being "truly worthy", as "the chosen ones", "god's people", "one from the 144 tribes" etc many see unbelievers as "unclean", "infidels", "blasphemers". So many wars throughout history have come about due to religion, including The Troubles!
On a wider note here Corbyn has tried to act as a peacemaker for decades and in order to do so has had to engage with some fairly unsavoury characters. At least he made the effort! Was he supposed to call IRA etc a pack of bastards, tell them he hates them, and then say now lets talk peace? Not going to work really is it.... Thatcher actually engaged with the IRA through intermediaries for years and then Major and Blair went on to get a peace deal. I wonder if the early intervention of Corbyn actually helped to pave the way for peace? Hopefully.
If I'm correctly interpreting that you believe in creationism then I am aghast! That the human race, the planet and the universe is only 10,000 years old? That dinosaurs didn't exist? That Darwin is completely wrong?
I support the struggle of the Palestinian people to regain their occupied country History shows that land belongs to whoever can take it and keep it. Most recent example: The Crimea. How do you think the Palestinian people got Palestine to begin with?
So many wars throughout history have come about due to religion
No they haven't, although sides have sometimes been drawn partly based on the religions of the participants, wars are always about control of land and resources. The idea that if there was no religion there would be no war, or a lot less war is so ridiculous it isn't even worth the trouble to debunk it.
Thatcher actually engaged with the IRA through intermediaries for years and then Major and Blair went on to get a peace deal.
The difference is they were Prime Ministers at the time. Corbyn was a backbencher no-one had heard of. He would not have been privy to any of the intelligence reports, the content and outcomes of previous talks, etc. He didn't share a platform with terrorists because he was trying to negotiate with them, he did it to express his support and solidarity with them.
If I'm correctly interpreting that you believe in creationism then I am aghast! That the human race, the planet and the universe is only 10,000 years old? That dinosaurs didn't exist? That Darwin is completely wrong
Beleving that God created the Universe does not automatically mean you believe the Earth is only 6000 years old (not 10, 000) although grant you that some do believe that, and that fossils were deliberately placed to 'test our faith.' Again not worth debunking. Why can evolution not be how God decided the mechanism would work? Belief in God and evolution are not mutually exclusive.
anthonyTD
12-06-2017, 17:34
:)
Beleving that God created the Universe does not automatically mean you believe the Earth is only 6000 years old (not 10, 000) although grant you that some do believe that, and that fossils were deliberately placed to 'test our faith.' Again not worth debunking. Why can evolution not be how God decided the mechanism would work? Belief in God and evolution are not mutually exclusive.
Arkless Electronics
12-06-2017, 18:20
That's your choice and your right. My best mate is on the operating table as I type this being treated for cancer. If the Tories had their way there would have been such cut backs he probably would die without private heath care. My curse is on those (and I hope it's a small minority!) who would say "great. I'm happy to see that happen. Bring it on. Poor = you die if you get ill. I've no problem with that".
You are an embarrassment for decency.
I take it then that you would agree with the comment "great. I'm happy to see that happen. Bring it on. Poor = you die if you get ill. I've no problem with that"?
That you believe the NHS should wither under Tory cuts? No doubt that if you can't afford a £20,000 operation and die then it's "the law of the jungle"? "the market economy in action"?
There is a very wide gulf between our concepts of decency.
prestonchipfryer
12-06-2017, 19:08
I take it then that you would agree with the comment "great. I'm happy to see that happen. Bring it on. Poor = you die if you get ill. I've no problem with that"?
That you believe the NHS should wither under Tory cuts? No doubt that if you can't afford a £20,000 operation and die then it's "the law of the jungle"? "the market economy in action"?
There is a very wide gulf between our concepts of decency.
With your previous comment, which was deleted by admin, as far as I'm concerned you have lost any credibility in any of your arguments and you are not to be taken seriously.
Guys, give it rest. That's enough now. Any more from either of you and it will be deleted without further warning.
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
13-06-2017, 00:22
This thread has been a living illustration of quite why it is said "never discuss religion or politics". When not wearing my hi fi designer hat I am a bit of a political activist for the Labour party, the NHS, peace, sticking up for the underdog, religious and racial tolerance (yes I'm strongly against ALL religion but I want to see peace between them if they MUST exist) etc. When I see the haves ganging up on the have-nots, the strong and wealthy wishing to further the gap between themselves and the poor and weak and entrench division for their own greed.... I get angry. VERY angry.
I have however allowed myself, in defending my personal views, strongly held as they are, to over-step the line of what is appropriate in gentlemanly debate on what is, after all, a side room of a HIFI forum. No I'm not going to apologise for anything I've said as I strongly believe in the veracity of my argument... I will though apologise for the confrontational way in which I worded and conducted my argument.... and metaphorically kick myself for allowing myself, in arguing against bigotry, to come across to the bigots as being as bigoted as they are (does that make sense:scratch: I know what I mean anyway). And no. No ones "put me up to this"
My mate who was having the cancer op today nearly gave me a heart attack by walking into the pub BTW.... His op was postponed this morning due to an emergency taking up theatres and then cancelled at half six tonight. He thought it would be amusing to text no one and just walk into the pub saying "what's up? you lot look like you've seen a ghost!" :eek:
Peace and Love :cool:
anthonyTD
13-06-2017, 08:25
This thread does indeed portray a near perfect example why some say' [including me at times] never discuss politics, or religion! :doh:
Its the two subjects that can devide even the strongest of Friendships, and family!
We are all diffrent, but I suspect a lot of our diffrences stem from a lack of understanding of the facts that lead us all down diffrent paths.
If we could/would only take the time to educate ourselves in understanding the facts behind the reasoning of why someone who' might have a diffrent view to our own, then we might be closer to a level playing field of being able to discuss such subjects in a more rational manner.:)
A...
walpurgis
13-06-2017, 08:32
I have little real interest in everyday politics. I regard it largely as a show put on to give the population something to argue over and vote for in the belief that it will achieve something, whereas the real power lies elsewhere, not with the government. As for religion? That's just a word which means nothing to me.
This thread has been a living illustration of quite why it is said "never discuss religion or politics". When not wearing my hi fi designer hat I am a bit of a political activist for the Labour party, the NHS, peace, sticking up for the underdog, religious and racial tolerance (yes I'm strongly against ALL religion but I want to see peace between them if they MUST exist) etc. When I see the haves ganging up on the have-nots, the strong and wealthy wishing to further the gap between themselves and the poor and weak and entrench division for their own greed.... I get angry. VERY angry.
I have however allowed myself, in defending my personal views, strongly held as they are, to over-step the line of what is appropriate in gentlemanly debate on what is, after all, a side room of a HIFI forum. No I'm not going to apologise for anything I've said as I strongly believe in the veracity of my argument... I will though apologise for the confrontational way in which I worded and conducted my argument.... and metaphorically kick myself for allowing myself, in arguing against bigotry, to come across to the bigots as being as bigoted as they are (does that make sense:scratch: I know what I mean anyway). And no. No ones "put me up to this"
My mate who was having the cancer op today nearly gave me a heart attack by walking into the pub BTW.... His op was postponed this morning due to an emergency taking up theatres and then cancelled at half six tonight. He thought it would be amusing to text no one and just walk into the pub saying "what's up? you lot look like you've seen a ghost!" :eek:
Peace and Love :cool:
Appreciated, Jez. It's always good when someone explains themselves properly and how they feel. In terms of the bit in bold mate [including religious and racial intolerance/bigotry, as well as neanderthal sexism and homophobia], you and me both!! :steam:
However, I'd *never* wish cancer on ANYONE, not even on my worst enemy. You just don't go there, and doing so only serves to make you look as bad as the scumbags you're attacking, especially in the eyes of reasonable people reading such comments. Quite clearly, you're a better man than that, so don't stoop to that level.
I'd therefore avoid making any such comments of that nature in future. Indeed, they simply won't be allowed - and that goes for everyone else here, too.
Marco.
I'm actually deeply interested in, and concerned by, political, religious and social issues in general - which is why I don't discuss any of them on audio forums.
This thread does indeed portray a near perfect example why some say' [including me at times] never discuss politics, or religion! :doh:
Its the two subjects that can devide even the strongest of Friendships, and family!
We are all diffrent, but I suspect a lot of our diffrences stem from a lack of understanding of the facts that lead us all down diffrent paths.
If we could/would only take the time to educate ourselves in understanding the facts behind the reasoning of why someone who' might have a diffrent view to our own, then we might be closer to a level playing field of being able to discuss such subjects in a more rational manner.:)
A...
I agree. Makes cable threads look like bedtime stories. Let's all be friends and go back to talking about audiophile fuses.
I have little real interest in everyday politics.
Me neither, as most of it (especially the in-depth anal/geeky stuff) bores me rigid! Major YAWN.
However... I have my 'pet subjects' in politics that I'm extremely passionate and vocal about, which those of you who've read my posts on those matters will know, one of which is poking the establishment right in the eye and fighting against INJUSTICE - and *nothing* would achieve that more now than getting rid of this evil Tory government.
Marco.
I'm actually deeply interested in, and concerned by, political, religious and social issues in general - which is why I don't discuss any of them on audio forums.
You should though, calmly and politely, which the majority of posts here have been, as in that respect, I'd like to know what 'makes you tick'... Such discussions happen even more on pfm than here, which Tony handles very well.
For me, it's all about getting to know people better and growing the AoS community - and you often find out much more about someone in these types of threads, than you do in discussions about hi-fi! ;)
Marco.
chris@panteg
13-06-2017, 09:13
Political differences can be volatile, I think I can understand the anger but we have to control it!
It's almost a year since Jo Cox was murdered by an an extremist nut job, time to reflect, a British citizen murdered by another British citizen because he didn't like her views and it was enough for him to want to kill.
Hear, hear! :clap:
Marco.
walpurgis
13-06-2017, 09:33
Jo Cox was murdered by an an extremist nut job, time to reflect, a British citizen murdered by another British citizen because he didn't like her views and it was enough for him to want to kill.
That's the point though. Most folk are not "extremist nut jobs". But these nuts do exist and their motives for such lunatic actions may be something so divorced from reality that even they do not understand why they want to do what they do.
You should though, calmly and politely, which the majority of posts here have been, as in that respect, I'd like to know what 'makes you tick'... Such discussions happen even more on pfm than here, which Tony handles very well.
For me, it's all about getting to know people better and growing the AoS community - and you often find out much more about someone in these types of threads, than you do in discussions about hi-fi! ;)
Marco.
I understand that and, as it is your forum, I entirely understand your wish to promote community.
As you say, a lot of political and religious 'discussion' takes place on pfm*, but I don't read it or take part in it.
* some people are forum members purely so that they can post on such issues (or push their viewpoint).
Arkless Electronics
13-06-2017, 12:26
I agree. Makes cable threads look like bedtime stories. Let's all be friends and go back to talking about audiophile fuses.
:lol::cool:
anthonyTD
13-06-2017, 13:11
Aye :eek::D
I agree. Makes cable threads look like bedtime stories. Let's all be friends and go back to talking about audiophile fuses.
walpurgis
13-06-2017, 16:23
This has the potential to cause a stink!
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/11/the-dup-could-insist-on-nigel-farage-having-a-role-in-brexit-negotiations-6701540/?google_editors_picks=true
Lord Farage Of Brexit. :D
May not seem like it right now but future generations will owe him an enormous debt of gratitude.
chris@panteg
15-06-2017, 08:23
Lord Farage Of Brexit. :D
May not seem like it right now but future generations will owe him an enormous debt of gratitude.
For many it will be an enormous kick in the nuts!
Arkless Electronics
15-06-2017, 13:10
This has the potential to cause a stink!
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/11/the-dup-could-insist-on-nigel-farage-having-a-role-in-brexit-negotiations-6701540/?google_editors_picks=true
False news I believe.
narabdela
15-06-2017, 13:18
Lord Farage Of Brexit. :D
May not seem like it right now but future generations will owe him an enormous debt of gratitude.
I'm pretty sure future generations will look back on him with the same affection we hold hold for Guy Fawkes.
Arkless Electronics
15-06-2017, 13:47
I'm pretty sure future generations will look back on him with the same affection we hold hold for Guy Fawkes.
I had to flush a big Farage this morning after a good curry last night...
walpurgis
18-06-2017, 21:33
Nice summary.
https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/18/theresa-may-trying-override-parliamentary-democracy-cling-power-no-ones-fooled/
Sign up now to reverse Article 50: https://secure.avaaz.org/campaign/en/no_deal_no_brexit_loc/?crFKcmb
Let's show these scum Tories that we mean business!!
Marco.
Signed. We should be demanding a referendum on any deal too.
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