Goodmans Magisters

[RMutt]

I thought it might be an idea to start a thread about the Magisters after one or two posts in Private Exhibitions. It would be good to hear from current and past owners about their experiences with them. They must be one of the more awkward speakers to accommodate these days( if you have a partner!). I'm lucky as we have two big rooms and so she lets me have my music in one of them. I came to mine after dabbling (very much the right expression) with their smaller sibling the Magnum. I had read about 12 inch drivers and sealed cabinets and decided to give them a go. After various experiments with them I took the plunge with the 15 inch bass version. Mine are a long way from standard. I bought them untested from the site on eBay, if I remember rightly, cheap as chips, they sell all sorts of electricals. They cost £1.26. When they arrived neither tweeter was working and the mids were an odd set. The big bass drivers were working though and so I new I could get them going. I used the bits from my Magnums and swopped all the capacitors for new items. I also installed L pads on the mids and tweeters. These were going to be temporary but I've ended up keeping them in place. The mids are Vifa D75MX domes and the tweeters Vifa D27TG3506. I found the original tweeters and midranges to be to too shouty and bright. These are a much more palatable listen. I hacked out the central part of the baffle and stuck on a new baffle that clears the 'picture frame' surround. I have sort of documented various trials and tribulations with them across different areas of the forum, blown bass drivers repaired, veneering! I will draw them together with links at some point. I will put pictures on too when I get a chance. These speakers are without doubt the best I have owned. The sound is 'big', the bass tight and the calmed down mids and highs are great. I had to use an emergency pair of speakers whilst I repaired my Magisters, Mordaunt Short ms 815, not small but they sounded measly in comparison. Im sure some of you will have fond memories of them, or maybe you put your back out moving them and are not so keen.

[Dylanthecat]

Hi Andrew, still evaluating my Magisters but already can see they are going to be a clear favourite. You can not hide from the fact of their physical presence though compared to the cabs housing my Triaxiom 1220c they are somewhat compact. I have yet to play with positioning so any pointers there would be appreciated. I did unplug the BK active sub as I could see no point of that. Martin

[AD Audio]

Hi,
You may be interested in my Magisters' work. I was commissioned last year to rebuild /upgrade a pair of Magisters and the complete story is here on my Website https://adaudioconsultants.wordpress.com/2016/05/06/goodmans-magister-speakers-upgrade/

In brief, new mid drivers, tweeters, and crossovers were installed and the cabinets refurbished. I was so impressed with the results that I tracked down a pair for myself and those were my reference speakers until I blew a bass driver a couple of weeks ago.

Since then a friend and I have had some cabinets built in marine ply, keeping the same volume but increasing the height of the speaker so that it can be used without a stand, as well as improving the looks. I'm not sure yet whether to track down another pair of Goodmans bass drivers or use some new ones. It would be a shame to track a pair down the have another one fail again.......

The biggest weakness of the standard model is its crossover that sends the whole audio signal to the bass driver, simply cutting signal to the mid and treble units to stop them being overloaded.
David

[RMutt]

Hello David. Those Magisters look like new! You've done great job on them! Not at all like mine that looked like they had come out of a youth club or something. That's why I ended up veneering them, or should I say, trying to veneer them. I replaced my capacitors like for like with Supersounds and left the inductors as was. I didn't change any cap values for the new mids and tweeters but use the L pads for fine tuning the sensitivities. I know where you are coming from with the bass getting a full range signal and it is my intention to deal with that next. In fact I bought the inductors and put them on the Magnums to do the same thing, some time ago, but without the Zobel. Now I am waiting for some components to arrive so that I can put them on the Magisters. So you blew one of your bass drivers too? I blew both of mine but managed to get them going again. I also reckon that transplanting the voice coil from the 12 inch version is definitely do-able if you are prepared to sacrifice a donor 12 inch driver. They are much easier to come across. I must admit I rather like my stands with castors on, it adds to the period feel!

[AD Audio]

Hi Andrew,
I crossed over my drivers at 380 and 3,800khz which worked very well. I admire your spirit in swapping voice coils etc but may try some new drivers in mine. My bass driver went under 'normal' listening conditions and it would be heartbreaking after such an effort that another voice coil went!

I've heard Eminence 15ins drivers work very well.
David

[walpurgis]

If you do a worldwide search on ebay, you will find many speaker component parts available from the far east, including rear suspension spiders, cone surrounds, voice coils and cone assemblies, etc. They come in all kinds of spec and sizes, so choose carefully. Prices are good, delivery times can be a bit extended though.

[Beobloke]

My Magister story can be summed up as follows:

- Bought pair of Magisters at the dump for £10 a few years ago. Discovered tweeters not working.
- Thought they sounded quite promising, if a bit dull (obviously!).
- Searched for tweeters for about a year.
- Gave up - sold them

- Bought a second pair more recently - discovered tweeters not working (a common malady it would seem!)
- Thought they also sounded quite promising, if a bit dull.
- Found tweeters. Checked they were OK and fitted them.
- Thought they sounded thoroughly unpleasant (a friend who listened to them with me reckons they sounded better without tweeters!)
- Sold them.

Despite being a Goodmans fan and a lover of big, ugly speakers in general, I'm now over my lust for Magisters...

[walpurgis]

:lolsign:

[RMutt]

Ha ha. Well you can't say you didn't try Adam! Interesting that your friend thought they were better without the tweeters. I appreciate that's probably tongue in cheek but I wonder if it's because of the same issue that I had before tweaking my own pair. I found them overly forward and bright. I wonder if some speakers back then were voiced to work with the equipment of the day. With modern front ends this then becomes too much. How would you describe the sound you found so unpleasant?

[Beobloke]

As you've found really. The treble was harsh and gritty, and the midrange forward and shouty. Even the bass, which sounded promisingly big, smooth and solid without the tweeters turned into a one-note, boxy mess when they were fitted!

I did briefly consider tweaking them but I'd just bought a pair of B&O Beovox 5000s and so felt I only really needed one pair of old, ugly teak speakers in the house. Plus, the B&Os are quite nice!

[Arkless Electronics]

As you've found really. The treble was harsh and gritty, and the midrange forward and shouty. Even the bass, which sounded promisingly big, smooth and solid without the tweeters turned into a one-note, boxy mess when they were fitted!

I did briefly consider tweaking them but I'd just bought a pair of B&O Beovox 5000s and so felt I only really needed one pair of old, ugly teak speakers in the house. Plus, the B&Os are quite nice!

A friend of mine who had both Magnum K's and Magister's, bought new at the time, thought they were bloody awful for the same reasons hence I've been surprised to see them making a resurgence of late.... I think in some ways the lure of the vintage or retro blinds people to areas of genuine progress maybe...

[walpurgis]

I just passed on a tidy pair of Magnum K's on ebay. They went for £21. Just down the road from me too. I was tempted though! :D

[RMutt]

Your initial reaction is very similar to mine it would seem. I am glad I persevered though as they now sound much better. The thing I would say is that the bass is now like you thought it had the potential to be. The best way I can describe it is nuanced, in fact just the opposite of a one note thump. You cannot describe it as punchy but it is musical and tight. I've just had an email to say my pots and resistors are on their way, so with a bit of luck, this weekend I'll see if I can stop the higher frequencies getting to the bass driver. Sorry I was just writing a response to Adam and two posts got in between.

[RMutt]

A friend of mine who had both Magnum K's and Magister's, bought new at the time, thought they were bloody awful for the same reasons hence I've been surprised to see them making a resurgence of late.... I think in some ways the lure of the vintage or retro blinds people to areas of genuine progress maybe...

I'm not sure of the lure of vintage, maybe. But most of the rest of my stuff is pretty up to date and I'm a mainly digital listener. I was attracted to a sealed enclosure with a large driver making the bass. I haven't listened to a huge amount of speakers but these sound good to me now.

[Arkless Electronics]

I'm not sure of the lure of vintage, maybe. But most of the rest of my stuff is pretty up to date and I'm a mainly digital listener. I was attracted to a sealed enclosure with a large driver making the bass. I haven't listened to a huge amount of speakers but these sound good to me now.

You could try Heybrook HB3's.... "only" 10" woofer though...

[Beobloke]

A friend of mine who had both Magnum K's and Magister's, bought new at the time, thought they were bloody awful for the same reasons hence I've been surprised to see them making a resurgence of late.... I think in some ways the lure of the vintage or retro blinds people to areas of genuine progress maybe...

Possibly. I think there's also the 'umbrella effect' where people read about a company's good models and assume that everything the company made was superb.

Goodmans made some very fine loudspeakers, of that there can be no doubt, but they also made a few stinkers!

[RMutt]

Thanks Jez, I'll put them on my 'possibles' list! Actually something you said earlier I found interesting. The idea of being blind to progress. Speakers have huge range of solutions to a problem. Some designs are so simple, a box and a driver, and others employ huge amounts of technology and research evolution. There are supporters of both but you have to wonder about the progress made when so many favour the simple approach. Harbeth still produce relatively simple and yet well regarded speakers and compete against companies like B and W who use much more technology in their designs.

[WESTLOWER]

see post number 3 in this thread... I think what was being indicated is with a bit of fettling and replacement mids & tweeters the real potential of those 'big Ugly Boxes' can be unleashed.
I have personally experienced David Coe's Magisters and I can tell you now they were stunningly good.
They surpassed a seriously good pair of Wilmslow Audio Prestiges in the bass department and made my Kudos Cardea 2s (£2500)..feel very tame indeed!
Yes without work and effort they are poor performers, but in the right hands with a few quid thrown at them a very nice performer is revealed.

[danilo]

Have heard / read about the Miles' Magister
But Not Goodmans :eyebrows:

[walpurgis]

Have heard / read about the Miles' Magister
But Not Goodmans :eyebrows:

No. It's not about flying Danilo.

[docfoster]

I can't stand the DT3 tweeter. Not sure if they always sounded harsh, or whether somehow they deteriorate over the decades. I replaced them in a pair of Magisters, as well as recapping the crossovers and changing the internal wiring, and I like the sound of the speakers now.
Be minded that I am a big fan of large drivers in sealed enclosures generally. (Interestingly, the 15 inch woofer in the Magisters come straight off the binding posts (not via the crossovers).)

[walpurgis]

The DT3 always had a bit of a 'sting' towards the upper end. Not as bad as the Philips tweeter used in the later 'SL' series speakers though.

The mid driver in the Magister is fairly benign, if not exactly perfect. It has slight colourations. It was good enough for use in several Radford speakers and the Ferrograph S1.

[docfoster]

Agreed about the midrange used in the Magister.
I've not heard the Phillips tweeter. Worse than the DT3 you say? Blimey.

[walpurgis]

The DT3 was supposedly a soft dome tweeter, but the dome was pretty rigid actually and had a bit of an unfortunate resonance around the 10kHz mark if I recall, which was mysteriously absent from response graphs published by Goodmans. The truncated housing flare in which the dome was situated did not help. Audax showed us how soft domes could be done with the HD 100 tweeter, a beautifully sweet sounding unit.

[docfoster]

The DT3 was supposedly a soft dome tweeter, but the dome was pretty rigid actually and had a bit of an unfortunate resonance around the 10kHz mark if I recall, which was mysteriously absent from response graphs published by Goodmans.

;-)
Mysterious indeed. :-D
I've often wondered how reliable those specs and graphs are.

[Oddball]

Interesting read !!
I nearly bought a pair of Magnums ,from close by me , a couple of yrs ago.
I was attracted by that big shiny bass driver for some reason :D

Now I have some Tannoys , the urge has passed!!

Nice bit of tweeking RMUtt:)

[docfoster]

Interesting read !!
I nearly bought a pair of Magnums ,from close by me , a couple of yrs ago.
I was attracted by that big shiny bass driver for some reason :D

Same mid, tweeter (and shiny bass doping!) as the Magisters I think. Possibly same crossover too...?