Fancy a cheap passive pre-amp?

[walpurgis]

Just as a bit of fun and something else to play with, I've been using one of these for a little while: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Little-Bear-MC2-Fully-Balanced-Passive-Preamplifier-Pre-Amp-XLR-RCA-Controller-K-/401324705315?hash=item5d70d10623:g:lY4AAOSwZ4dZEtW t

It's dirt cheap, but well built and looks pretty funky and it sounds way better than you'd expect. It works a treat with my Quad 306. I'd imagine it would pair up well with a Leak Stereo 20 as well. At twenty five quid you can't go far wrong really, even if it's just kept as a back-up. You do have to wait for it to arrive from China. Mine took about three weeks. The seller is reputable.

These are available from various far east sellers and 10k, 20k and 50k options can be found. Mine has the 20k pot.


http://i64.tinypic.com/slqvyb.jpg


http://i66.tinypic.com/zlzq79.jpg



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[Gordon Steadman]

What a crazy price. Very tempted.

I use a Creek passive with the Stereo 20 and the 306 / 303 so having a spare sounds a very good idea. I wonder if I will hear any difference!

[walpurgis]

Hi Gordon.

I had a Creek passive years ago and from memory, I'd guess this Little Bear could be better. I found the Creek slightly thick sounding and I was using a Stereo 20 at the time, that's not something I'd accuse the Little Bear of.

[jandl100]

Interesting!
So it can be used as a 2 input passive pre? - 1 RCA and 1 XLR?

Would go well with Jez's impedance buffer widget. :hmm:

[walpurgis]

Would go well with Jez's impedance buffer widget. :hmm:

That's a distinct possibilty.

[Arkless Electronics]

Interesting!
So it can be used as a 2 input passive pre? - 1 RCA and 1 XLR?

Would go well with Jez's impedance buffer widget. :hmm:

Yes it would. Any passive will work equally well with it and it converts the passive into an active. I wouldn't touch one of those little bear ones with a ten foot pole personally though. Too cheap to do the job reliably. Handy for those who don't want to bung a decent pot in a box and build it themselves though.

[Minstrel SE]

Im looking at the ones from Tisbury Audio and NVA.

The passive pre and power seems to be absolutely ideal and Im feeling the vibe. Im just wondering If I need XLR?

That little bear product just looks a bit cheap and just doesnt do it for me. Little Bear? :) I will buy into a nice wood panel and a UK quality vibe. Hand crafted by angels in the countryside will have me reaching for my wallet :) Made In the UK is a big selling point for me

I will have to search for more threads on passive pre amps

Best wishes
Martin

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Im looking at the ones from Tisbury Audio and NVA.

The passive pre and power seems to be absolutely ideal and Im feeling the vibe. Im just wondering If I need XLR?

That little bear product just looks a bit cheap and just doesnt do it for me. Little Bear? :) I will buy into a nice wood panel and a UK quality vibe. Hand crafted by angels in the countryside will have me reaching for my wallet :) Made In the UK is a big selling point for me

I will have to search for more threads on passive pre amps

Best wishes
Martin

Hi Martin
Good choice, viewed properly you are further money away from a proper passive - one that
has no grinding contacts or wiping surfaces, at all, in the signal path.


Cheers / Chris

[RothwellAudio]

... a proper passive - one that has no grinding contacts or wiping surfaces...

Light Dependent Resistor is adamant that mechanical/physical contacts are a problem from an audio point of view but personally I'm not convinced.

[RothwellAudio]

BTW, Black Adder is selling a nice passive here on AoS
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?50275-FS-Rotel-RHC-10-Michi-Dual-mono-Passive-preamp-(very-nice-indeed)

[Simon_LDT]

Seems to be pros and cons to both. What about relay based attenuators? (this looks nice: http://www.khozmo.com/64_steps_relay_khozmo_attenuator.html)

[Arkless Electronics]

Light Dependent Resistor is adamant that mechanical/physical contacts are a problem from an audio point of view but personally I'm not convinced.

I disagree with him as strongly as is possible within the way things must be worded on the forum and believe that LDR's are a bad way of doing the job as they measurably add distortion.

[Arkless Electronics]

Seems to be pros and cons to both. What about relay based attenuators? (this looks nice: http://www.khozmo.com/64_steps_relay_khozmo_attenuator.html)

I have been meaning to build myself a relay one for a while... one of those round tuit things! I'm not offering to make these for customers.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Seems to be pros and cons to both. What about relay based attenuators? (this looks nice: http://www.khozmo.com/64_steps_relay_khozmo_attenuator.html)

It is honest by admitting there is a design issue with conventional pots and signal paths, as it
seeks a partial different solution. But it has the same problem, that the signal path still engages
contacts. And it is more expensive.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

I disagree with him as strongly as is possible within the way things must be worded on the forum and believe that LDR's are a bad way of doing the job as they measurably add distortion.

Prove it ! , and can I strongly suggest you use a design that properly isolates cathode ground from signal ground
before measuring. If that takes a while to design ( years ) - so be it, And also measure a conventional pot at the same time.

[Arkless Electronics]

Prove it ! , and can I strongly suggest you use a design that properly isolates cathode ground from signal ground
before measuring. If that takes a while to design ( years ) - so be it, And also measure a conventional pot at the same time.

Don't need to. I trust Lurcher's (Nick. Longdog Audio) measurements showing this... oh, and the warnings about distortion in the manufacturers data sheets for LDR's.

And that ends my participation in the specific matter of LDR's.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Don't need to. I trust Lurcher's (Nick. Longdog Audio) measurements showing this... oh, and the warnings about distortion in the manufacturers data sheets for LDR's.

And that ends my participation in the specific matter of LDR's.


http://lunainc.com/product/optocouplers/

"Luna Optoelectronics’ optocouplers are ideally suited for high performance audio circuits. Most “design-ins” have demonstrated proven performance benefits over silicon based audio control devices such as VCAs and FETs.

The optocoupler is a very cost-effective way to improve the performance of your audio equipment."

[walpurgis]

That little bear product just looks a bit cheap

Best wishes
Martin

That was the point. And it sounds good!

[walpurgis]

BTW, Black Adder is selling a nice passive here on AoS
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?50275-FS-Rotel-RHC-10-Michi-Dual-mono-Passive-preamp-(very-nice-indeed)

I Know. It's lovely, but it's not £25.

[Arkless Electronics]

I presume the XLR's are not balanced?

[The Black Adder]

Thanks for the quote, Andrew.

No... It's not. Lol. Mine is made by boffins with a budget bigger than when Mr. Sausage McDoogle said to his wife, "if you can find a bigger sausage than mine you can clear off and start your own sausage factory"



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[Bigman80]

Thanks for the quote, Andrew.

No... It's not. Lol. Mine is made by boffins with a budget bigger than when Mr. Sausage McDoogle said to his wife, "if you can find a bigger sausage than mine you can clear off and start your own sausage factory"



Sent from my 9001X using Tapatalk
That Rotel is a thing of beauty. If I had the sovereigns it would be in my house. Possibly the most elegant passive pre ive ever seen. #stunner.

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[The Black Adder]

It certainly is. It's bonkers regarding build quality and sound.

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[RothwellAudio]

I presume the XLR's are not balanced?

I wondered about that but the pot looks long enough to be a four-ganged jobby, so maybe it is balanced.

[Arkless Electronics]

I wondered about that but the pot looks long enough to be a four-ganged jobby, so maybe it is balanced.

Now had a look at ebay listing and apparently it is balanced for XLR's!

[Minstrel SE]

That was the point. And it sounds good!

Yes no worries and my posts are never really to have a go or one upmanship. Its always good to see products as a cost reference point. I am interested and am on a starter journey with a passive pre. A switch and a pot...a stepped attenuator and who knows where it ends with contactless utopia. At my level Im just happy with a good sound and simple signal path with good components

I may be missing out on a bargain but am prepared to pay some more. The XLRs are interesting and have made me think.

Dont worry I get you and I see the cost saving. Maybe I have some irrational bias against cheap Chinese products in the hi fi industry. I have a Chinese brand phone which works well and I know the Chinese can produce some excellent products.

Little Bear as a name though?.... Come on! :D

[walpurgis]

I've had a good few passives including stepped attenuator types and apart from my TVC unit this seems as good sounding as any.

[jandl100]

Little Bear make/market some good, cheap, high value gear - I have a little phonostage of their's - something like £35 new - and it's really pretty darn good!

Not sure what is odd about the name Little Bear :scratch: - but then I'm sweet and innocent like that. :D

[struth]

Ursa Minor to us :lol:

[Arkless Electronics]

I've had a good few passives including stepped attenuator types and apart from my TVC unit this seems as good sounding as any.

Other than reliability and channel matching issues indeed I would expect this to sound very similar to a £1K passive. A passive pre is a passive pre and there's nowt to get wrong.... I would expect all passive pre's to sound very similar regardless of price. Not identical mind... more money generally does get you some greater transparency, mainly by going from a standard vol control to a stepped attenuator, but it will be slight.

[Macca]

Little Bear :scratch: - but then I'm sweet and innocent like that. :D

With the Chinese you probably find out that the translation 'Little Bear' is an approximation and the literal translation is 'Blackbird take flight from castle wall'.

Or something.