View Full Version : Radford Revival "The PreAmp"
So following the thread I started a few weeks ago on a recommended pre-amp I have been trailing the Radford Revival Preamp - and I have to say that it is just simply awesome. Far in excess of what I was hoping for.
I have had a Radford STA25 for many years so am very used to the sweet mellow full range transparent sound of this design.
About 3 years ago Will at Radford Revival built me one of his Revival STA25 units which proved to even much better than the original unit I had (dating from the 60s I guess). So from this pedigree I asked Will for his ideas on a preamp, a few days later his prototype arrived which took all of 5 minutes to get plugged in.
Here are some of the notes I made back to Will. If anything, now two or so weeks after I wrote to Will, the experience is even better.
Clean, precise, very focused (= great sound stage), able to resolve very fine detail. Fantastic 'speed' - as you said "punchy" - but more specifically excellent attack and decay.
The sound is highly coherent - nothing is left behind struggling to catch up. Bass, mid and treble form a wonderful whole.
Super smooth sound - the preamp adds nothing (so far as I can hear) simply opens the window to the sound without any feel of holding it back. Almost like well trained horses taken off their reins and allowed to gallop freely.
Listening as I type - the micro-detail simply flowing through. Complex music with layers easily resolved resulting in a holographic image. Zero fatigue. A roller-coaster ride. Organic.
Every time I experience such a step change in how the music can flow I can't imagine what further improvements are possible but almost always surprised. And now I very much feel that I will not be able to experience such a further huge step change - certainly as far as a preamp is concerned. In a couple of weeks time I will get to try out in my system an Audio Note preamp - it will be interesting to see the difference. If the Audio Note is up to the standard of the Radford I really ought not hear a difference.
The only negative on the Radford preamp is that it is so revealing of poorly miked and mastered music that I'm even more aware of some of the crud I have collected over the years.
Ed
Nice one, Edward. Will's a top bloke and his designs are superb in every way. Enjoy! :cool:
Oh, some pics would be nice! :)
Marco.
hifinutt
31-05-2017, 08:11
yes thanks ed for writing up. always good to read about beautiful pre amps and what they can do
look forward to some pics maybe
I'm jealous!
And the theory that if two preamps are near perfect, they should sound the same, sure sounds like solid logic. But in practice, it rarely plays out, (in my experience anyway) somehow they always have some character of their own, two versions of perfect. I can't wait to hear what your notes are on that comparison! I completely get your analogy of unbridled horses.
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hifinutt
31-05-2017, 16:57
had lots of good pre amps and they all sounded different ! some are delicious and keep you up late at night and some are just too clinical in my experience
Then there is the No preamp at all...beyond an attenuator device (of your choice) solution.
had lots of good pre amps and they all sounded different ! some are delicious and keep you up late at night and some are just too clinical in my experience
Spot on. Your description of delicious is how I describe some of the sounds I hear from different systems. The Radford preamp certainly does it (other words like velvety, scrumptious, mouthwatering, sweet - that's enough food words - come to mind).
And yes many systems are simply too clinical as you say. Having been to several shows recently (Munich was the last) I was shocked how different systems sounded. I went to Munich with a couple of mates and almost without fail we walked into rooms and had the same experience. Thumbs up or thumbs down. In some rooms the sound was simply too 'edgy' and sharp - we looked at each other and walked straight out. In other rooms we were immediately struck by the musicality of the system and stayed for a long time. Listening to Mutter (Rammstein) on the Avantagarde massive horn speakers was a joy. :)
When I get some time over the next few days I will try and experiment of switching round the various preamps I have here (Radford, Cambridge Audio, Tisbury and an ancient Musical Fidelity) and be super critical of what I hear.
In a few days I am due to pick up some minty Celestion A3s to try (and probably buy). I hope they don't simply overwhelm the rooms I have for listening. I have already warned my partner that they are massive (well I said 'slightly bigger' than the PMCs I currently use).;)
Then there is the No preamp at all...beyond an attenuator device (of your choice) solution.
Exactly. In fact I was chatting with Steve Moores (Will's dad) and this is precisely the point he made. That is the primary aim of the Radford Preamp - to get out of the way.
:worthless:
;)
Marco.
:lol: Fully agreed. Here we go....
Top shelf: Radford Prototype Preamp (already seen in another thread). Murdoch Box. Linear power supply for DAC. Chevron non oversampling DAC.
Bottom shelf: Radford Revival STA25. Fanlesss JRiver renderer based on MiniITX mobo and Streacom case. Baldwin 405 clone amp. Baldwin custom speaker switch box.
http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q485/edwardlon/20170601_223822_zpsebgpcesc.jpg
Not seen in this picture is an ISOTek Qube supplying power to all these units and a server in another room connected via Ethernet. Oh and a bunch of other amps, turntables, CD players etc - all of which not currently being used.
and here an internal view of the Radford pre amp.
http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q485/edwardlon/20170601_223904_zps1bmgdchu.jpg
Yum, yum, Edward - proper looking hi-fi! None of yer blinged-up jewellery... No doubt it sounds fab, too!
Enjoy :cool:
Marco.
Radford Revival
02-06-2017, 15:36
:) :thumbsup:
Cheers Marco
Mind you I would not mind someone giving me one of these for a second system. ;) I can cope with bling just as well as the next person.
http://cdn.dandagostino.com/images/products/momentum_integrated_3.jpg
That is the acme of vulgarity. Bling hardly describes it.
Suspect the case cost more to make than the electronics it encloses. And what is the point of that meter? (Apart from giving a certain reviewer a massive tumescence!)
southall-1998
02-06-2017, 16:03
Cheers Marco
Mind you I would not mind someone giving me one of these for a second system. ;) I can cope with bling just as well as the next person.
http://cdn.dandagostino.com/images/products/momentum_integrated_3.jpg
That thing looks disgusting!
S.
Arkless Electronics
02-06-2017, 16:05
Arghh!!!! Disgusting!
southall-1998
02-06-2017, 16:21
Seen a lot worse
Gypo wedding?
S.
and here an internal view of the Radford pre amp.
http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q485/edwardlon/20170601_223904_zps1bmgdchu.jpg
Very nice looking work Will.
Any case designs on the go yet?
Arkless Electronics
02-06-2017, 16:32
One for Will. I was looking at an old Hi Fi Year Book and came across Radford Ista and Ima power amps.... I don't recall ever seeing reference to these ever before. What was the story with these?
Radford Revival
02-06-2017, 17:38
One for Will. I was looking at an old Hi Fi Year Book and came across Radford Ista and Ima power amps.... I don't recall ever seeing reference to these ever before. What was the story with these?
Personally I'm not sure - I've seen them mentioned too but never seen one myself. My father Steve might know. I believe they were a bit similar to the K25 studio amps and I think we even have a PCB for one somewhere.
There are a few 'ghost' Radford products you see mentioned but appear to have never existed or are just incredibly rare to the point that no one appears to have ever seen one. They may never have made it to production.
One example, though it exists, is the 'STA60' which is actually just the original name for the STA100. They found they could get 100W out of the thing so decided to name it that at the last minute ;) (This is hearsay so I can't say if this truly happened or not, though the STA60 and STA100 are identical.)
There is also an STA20 that is mentioned somewhere. Someone emailed me with pictures of what may have been one - if it was real it seems to be a hybrid of an STA15 and 25 as you might expect. Visually it was identical to the STA15 and had a GZ34 socket.
There is an STA7 of which I've only ever seen one example of, it was on ebay a year or so ago.
One for Will. I was looking at an old Hi Fi Year Book and came across Radford Ista and Ima power amps.... I don't recall ever seeing reference to these ever before. What was the story with these?
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?4168-Manufacturers-Radford-Electronics
I believe they were successors to the MA/STA 15 and MA/STA 25 series of the mid '60s and used ideas employed in video circuitry.
Radford Revival
02-06-2017, 17:58
In that case we definitely don't have a PCB for one!
Arkless Electronics
02-06-2017, 18:00
Personally I'm not sure - I've seen them mentioned too but never seen one myself. My father Steve might know. I believe they were a bit similar to the K25 studio amps and I think we even have a PCB for one somewhere.
There are a few 'ghost' Radford products you see mentioned but appear to have never existed or are just incredibly rare to the point that no one appears to have ever seen one. They may never have made it to production.
One example, though it exists, is the 'STA60' which is actually just the original name for the STA100. They found they could get 100W out of the thing so decided to name it that at the last minute ;) (This is hearsay so I can't say if this truly happened or not, though the STA60 and STA100 are identical.)
There is also an STA20 that is mentioned somewhere. Someone emailed me with pictures of what may have been one - if it was real it seems to be a hybrid of an STA15 and 25 as you might expect. Visually it was identical to the STA15 and had a GZ34 socket.
There is an STA7 of which I've only ever seen one example of, it was on ebay a year or so ago.
Interesting info Will:) They were available for purchase according to the 1965 hi fi year book where they are described as "Reference standard power amplifiers". A "Patented feedback circuit" is claimed as is "provides larger power over frequency range 10c/s to 50Kc/s than is normally available from domestic hi fi amplifiers".
There is an IMA30 monoblock of 30W which uses KT88's, ISTA30 stereo version at £67 10S (STA25 £50) and ISTA60 at £85 and which although rated at 60WPC mentions 80W available 1% distortion.
Interestingly though, there is a Radford ad near the back of the book which mentions only the STA15 and 25....
Radford Revival
02-06-2017, 18:01
I have a feeling Radford had a habit of announcing products before they were ready.
Arkless Electronics
02-06-2017, 18:05
Ah I see Barry posted before me with much more info:)
Radford Revival
02-06-2017, 18:08
Interestingly enough I have been developing my own amplifier circuitry with similar ideas, achieving more feedback than is usually possible. Theoretically a ten-fold decrease in distortion!
So I had a preamp shoot out over the weekend here and at a mate's house.
Preamps tried included Radford Revival, Musical Fidelity PreAmp II (60s vintage), Tisbury passive, Cambridge Audio 851N and 840E, Electrocompaniet and an Audio Note.
Speakers included: PMC LB1S, XTZ Divine Alpha and Celestion A3. Amps were a Radford Revival STA25 and a pair of Musical Fidelity A308s.
Essentially all combinations tried were great with lots of musical emotion.
Here is a brief summary of the preamps (working from memory - I really ought to take notes).
Radford Revival - wide open, sweet, engaging, very 'musical'.
Musical Fidelity PreAmp II - great dynamics, open - but now showing its age (+40 years old) as focus not spot on. A recap may cure things.
Tisbury Passive - engaging, smooth but soft and lacking in dynamics.
Cambridge Audio 851N - Fast and engaging but somehow not 'organic'.
Cambridge Audio 840e - similar to above and very slightly veiled.
Electrocompaniet - super smooth and musical but somewhat soft.
Audio Note (kit built about 7 years ago and not used until now) - Similar to the Radford - wide open sweet etc. But bass a bit lacking. Higher grade caps may well cure that.
Anyway all mentioned fwiw.
My current setup for next few days is: Radford preamp > Radford Revival STA25 > Celestion A3. (next few days only as the A3s lack WAF and I will need to go back to the PMCs). :rolleyes:
walpurgis
06-06-2017, 22:39
Hmm. The Musical fidelity PreAmp II can't be forty years old and from the sixties.
I had one years ago. It dates from the later seventies or early eighties if I'm correct. Didn't rate it much to be honest, it wasn't a patch on the Rappaport Pre 2 I was mainly using.
Can't comment on the others, as I've not tried them, but I reckon my TVC would give all a run for their money! :D
Hmm. The Musical fidelity PreAmp II can't be forty years old and from the sixties.
I had one years ago. It dates from the later seventies or early eighties if I'm correct. Didn't rate it much to be honest, it wasn't a patch on the Rappaport Pre 2 I was mainly using.
Can't comment on the others, as I've not tried them, but I reckon my TVC would give all a run for their money! :D
Yeah my maths seems to be a bit Diane Abbotish. :eyebrows: Of course not 40 years. Anyway I can't quite remember when I got the MF preamp. It was probably 10 years old then and I thought I got it in late 70s but perhaps late 80s sometime. Brain fade.
Never tried out a TVC preamp. If someone wants to lend me their Baby Reference V2 for a few months I'm would be happy to accept. :lol:
Dont think they started til early 80's
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