Please help clear up a question about MONOBLOCKS

[Wakefield Turntables]

What are the advantages of monoblocks over simply getting a power amplifier or preamp designed to have dual mono power supplies and output?

[hifinutt]

I used to have monoblocks , several times . I believe some folks like shorter speaker cable to get them nearer the speakers . actually my current class A single stereo power amp is better than any monoblocks I have ever had .

[struth]

wouldn't think there would be any in general although some folk will think there is. I quite like monoblocks but its more for the look I think deep down. Like anything there can be extenuating circumstances

[Bigman80]

I used to have monoblocks , several times . I believe some folks like shorter speaker cable to get them nearer the speakers . actually my current class A single stereo power amp is better than any monoblocks I have ever had .

I've just googled your MSB s200 and it looks phenomenal!! Looks to be dual mono ?

[SLS]

What are the advantages of monoblocks over simply getting a power amplifier or preamp designed to have dual mono power supplies and output?

Often just doubles up the power. Quad QMPs are basically QSPs internally bridged. Some like Bryston can be switched externally into mono bridged mode. The only sense I can see in low powered valve monoblocks is to split the weight in half.

The weight of big power amps is an issue, dual mono with two transformers and heat sinks would just be too heavy. Some stereo amps have just one transformer, think Hegel.

Speaker cable length is irrelevant, just isn't an issue.

[Martyn Miles]

Not totally relevant, but I understand the word is normally spelt without a 'k'.



When I owned a Meridian 101 Series amplifier system,
my Dealer told me the performance of the 105 monobloc ( or 'mono bloc' )
was definitely superior.
In the end I turned my 101/103 into a 101/103D setup
That was back in 1979.

Perhaps things have changed spelling-wise now we're in 2017...

[JohnJo]

Personally I found my Quad 405 monoblocks sounded better with short speaker cables and long interconnects so being able to site the amps close to the speakers can be an advantage.

[walpurgis]

Using a pair of bridged stereo power amps as monoblocks will only give a 3db increase in maximum loudness in comparison to a similar single power amp used in stereo mode.

[Yomanze]

I have a "dual mono" amp i.e. mono amps in one case. Would there be any difference if they were in two boxes? I doubt it...

Are there advantages with seperate power supplies for each channel? Yes.

[Yomanze]

Using a pair of bridged stereo power amps as monoblocks will only give a 3db increase in maximum loudness in comparison to a similar single power amp used in stereo mode.
Also I find that things might not sound as natural and coherent when you start bridging or biamping.

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[walpurgis]

Are there advantages with seperate power supplies for each channel? Yes.

Not if the amplifier is designed properly.

[hifinutt]

I've just googled your MSB s200 and it looks phenomenal!! Looks to be dual mono ?

yes its a phenomenal amp , the msb monoblocks made quite an impression on many somewhile back and then they bought out this stereo version which is just beautiful. almost valvelike but with none of the drawbacks . its remote control and deadly quiet too .

[alphaGT]

Yes I think Monoblocks are used to solve weight problems. The new top drawer Krell's are in 4 cabinets. Each channel has its own power cabinet, and then amp cabinet. Each weighs close to the limits of the shipping companies.

Theoretically there are sonic improvements with monoblocks, they have total channel separation, do not share a transformer, or capacitor storage, or even an electrical circuit if you wire the house up that way. So in theory they are better, but those advantages could be hard to discern when comparing to the best of the one box amps. Perhaps if you have a very large room using very large and consumptuous speakers, it's advantages would be more easily revealed? Perhaps most of us just don't have the need for the extra performance a monoblock brings?


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[Jimbo]

I found monoblocks do make a difference but not sure if it was a difference I wanted. Sure if you want more power to drive large speakers in a large room then they maybe better. However I have heard very good stereo power amps do the same without a problem.

You get less crosstalk with mono block amps which in theory means you may get a slight improvement in precision and detail in the sound, probably most noticeable on vocals. You also get an ease to the music which is hard to quantify but is there none the less. Separate power supplies also a useful thing to have but again not always necessary if you have a well designed power amp.

I really think I would only use them to answer my first point, that being driving large speakers with awkward loads in big rooms.

[danilo]

Labels getting me mixed up ?
Are not Mono blocks..Two separate Single channel Amps with their own everything.. including power cords?
Dual mono being two separate Single channel amps in one case sharing only a Power transformer and it's secondaries ?
Difference between the 2 being ; a case and individual Power tx's?
What does one label the rest of amp configurations.. ?

[Arkless Electronics]

I wrote a pretty long post addressing advantages and disadvantages in detail about 6 months ago... gawd knows exactly where on the site but it's there.

[walpurgis]

Dual mono being two separate Single channel amps in one case sharing only a Power transformer and it's secondaries ?

Dual mono is separate everything except case. Including separate power transformers. Trio (Kenwood) and Harman Kardon did this amongst others.

[Minstrel SE]

I like the idea of monoblocks as in laymans terms the separation of boxes with a more specific duty appeals to me. It always has as it just seems to make sense to separate the channels as much as possible and have one power supply/circuit covering one channel only.

I will be getting a passive pre and matching power amplifier this year with plans to upgrade to a pre with outputs for bi amping (and even tri amping...not fully sure how that works but it sounds like great one upmanship :))

I am in touch with my hype meter and Im not sure if I could hear the difference in my price area between a well designed one box power and mono blocks. I am not an amplifier designer so could easily be persuaded that it reduces conflict issues and makes things pure.

I have to be honest that Im probably more in love with equipment that looks as though it means the business so I can say look Ive got a six pack :) I will be finding a good dealer and getting home trials with online ordering.

Cheers Martin

[walpurgis]

I don't personally care these days. Mono's, dual monopower amp, stereo power amp, integrated. As long as the sound is right. I've owned each type. Designed properly, they should perform as well as each other.

[Arkless Electronics]

I wrote a pretty long post addressing advantages and disadvantages in detail about 6 months ago... gawd knows exactly where on the site but it's there.

IIRC I also went into when 2 and 3 box solutions to things like phono stages, pre amps, power amps etc were definitely a good idea, mainly marketing or even a bad idea at some length as well in the same thread.....

[hifinutt]

I don't personally care these days. Mono's, dual monopower amp, stereo power amp, integrated. As long as the sound is right. I've owned each type. Designed properly, they should perform as well as each other.

agreed , heard 2 lovely integrated recently which were extremely good . leben and grandinote

[Beobloke]

Monoblocks improve the sound by the simple step of adding an extra box to your hi-fi setup which, as we all know, always makes things better. There is also the fact that a box with only one VU meter on the front means said meter can be made larger, which also improves the sound.

Oh, and for those banging on about dual mono amplifiers, having recently owned such a device that was SO dual mono it even had two mains leads, I now refuse to acknowledge any allegedly "dual mono" design that only has one mains lead as being so. ;)

[hifinutt]

funnily enough the grandinote shinai i have just posted a video has 2 mains cables to it !

[Macca]

Two mains cables means you can use two super-duper crazy-money power cables instead of just one. If there's a down side I can't see it...

[Wakefield Turntables]

I'm looking at dual mono psu for the croft preamp. I'm currently revamping the valve system and looking at trying to get "it" to the Nxt level. I honestly think the SondeX s100 amp is the weakest link in the chain. The 301 is being tweaked, the paradise phonostage is hooked in for a raft of improvements and then the pre-amp.

[Arkless Electronics]

The quality of a power supply, the nature of the circuitry it's powering, and the inherent PSRR of the circuitry is infinitely more important than whether it's dual mono.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The quality of a power supply, the nature of the circuitry it's powering, and the inherent PSRR of the circuitry is infinitely more important than whether it's dual mono.

Yes that's why I'm reviewing my options ;)

[hifinutt]

Two mains cables means you can use two super-duper crazy-money power cables instead of just one. If there's a down side I can't see it...

ha , those days are gone . now just use mains cable r us finest 4mm cable and furutech plugs . pretty inexpensive ![under 100 quid ]

[Beobloke]

Two mains cables means you can use two super-duper crazy-money power cables instead of just one. If there's a down side I can't see it...

Fortunately, the amplifier I had was intended for professional use. As a result, its mains leads were captive, thus eliminating the possibility of such tomfoolery!

[Macca]

Fortunately, the amplifier I had was intended for professional use. As a result, its mains leads were captive, thus eliminating the possibility of such tomfoolery!

They aren't called professionals for nothing. :)

[Jimbo]

The quality of a power supply, the nature of the circuitry it's powering, and the inherent PSRR of the circuitry is infinitely more important than whether it's dual mono.

Regarding power supply, would it be better to have PSU in a separate box away from the valves.. Is this more beneficial than dual mono design or mono blocks?

[Arkless Electronics]

Regarding power supply, would it be better to have PSU in a separate box away from the valves.. Is this more beneficial than dual mono design or mono blocks?

All this and more dealt with in posts referred to above from 6 months ago...

[hifinutt]

All this and more dealt with in posts referred to above from 6 months ago...

yes I tried to find your post with no success :)

[JohnJo]

Eh voila,

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?48288-Recommend-me-some-Monoblocks/page3&highlight=Monoblock

[Wakefield Turntables]

Eh voila,

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?48288-Recommend-me-some-Monoblocks/page3&highlight=Monoblock

Thanks, starting to get some ideas with respects to what i want to do with the Pre.

[RothwellAudio]

The quality of a power supply, the nature of the circuitry it's powering, and the inherent PSRR of the circuitry is infinitely more important than whether it's dual mono.
PSRR may need some explanation, unless I'm underestimating the electronics knowledge of typical forumites.

[Arkless Electronics]

PSRR may need some explanation, unless I'm underestimating the electronics knowledge of typical forumites.

Hmm yeah I considered explaining it... but didn't:D Hey if yer going to get accused of being patronising at times you have do the opposite now and then to keep em guessing:eyebrows: I'm off out in a mo with a few beers to watch Jools Holland at mates place so if you would care to do the honours Andrew?

[RothwellAudio]

PSRR stands for power supply rejection ratio. Without getting too technical it's basically a measure of how well an amplifier shrugs off the inadequacies of a less-than-perfect power supply.

BTW, going off at a slight tangent, I think it would be helpful for people not to get too hung-up on the "power" side of a power supply and instead think of it as a voltage supply. Sure, for power amps it's important to have some power available, but mostly it's a steady voltage which is required. Actually, that's still true for power amps - but the voltage needs to hold steady under more demanding conditions.
Anyway, the idea that a "good power supply" means one which will supply more power - and is therefore big - is over-simplistic in my opinion.

[Wakefield Turntables]

PSRR stands for power supply rejection ratio. Without getting too technical it's basically a measure of how well an amplifier shrugs off the inadequacies of a less-than-perfect power supply.

BTW, going off at a slight tangent, I think it would be helpful for people not to get too hung-up on the "power" side of a power supply and instead think of it as a voltage supply. Sure, for power amps it's important to have some power available, but mostly it's a steady voltage which is required. Actually, that's still true for power amps - but the voltage needs to hold steady under more demanding conditions.
Anyway, the idea that a "good power supply" means one which will supply more power - and is therefore big - is over-simplistic in my opinion.

Good post. Explains a bit. So it's very important to have a very high PSRR and equally important to have a very "rigid" regulated power supply, so ?steady regulated voltage holds under demanding conditions??????

[danilo]

Not necessarily.. 'Best of Breed' Amp topologies often don't benefit from a regulated supply.
Lesser circuits typically need all the boost they can get... from any quarter.

Only news here IMO is the lengths we as Audio Weenies will go to in our search for the ultimate hardware advantage..
To Replay our cheap mass-market recordings of dubious quality... ;)

[Arkless Electronics]

PSRR stands for power supply rejection ratio. Without getting too technical it's basically a measure of how well an amplifier shrugs off the inadequacies of a less-than-perfect power supply.

BTW, going off at a slight tangent, I think it would be helpful for people not to get too hung-up on the "power" side of a power supply and instead think of it as a voltage supply. Sure, for power amps it's important to have some power available, but mostly it's a steady voltage which is required. Actually, that's still true for power amps - but the voltage needs to hold steady under more demanding conditions.
Anyway, the idea that a "good power supply" means one which will supply more power - and is therefore big - is over-simplistic in my opinion.

Yes, indeed a PERFECT VOLTAGE SOURCE is what we seek. This implies the capability to give infinite power of course since P = Vsqrt/R so if R = 0 power is infinite.

Now obviously this isn't possible... and even less practical or affordable! What a good linear regulator does is make the power supply behave as if it has infinite power...... up to the point where it goes bang and releases the magic smoke installed at the factory in every electronic component... or if it's competently designed goes into current limit and saves itself. So long as we don't require more power, ie current draw, (Power = Volts x Amps also of course, or so Mr Ohm says)) than the regulated PSU is designed to supply, we have a near as damn it perfect voltage source. Perfect voltage source = zero output impedance = infinite power, should the load try to draw it. The balance of compromises chosen in chasing but never reaching perfection applies to linear regulated power supplies as to everything else of course!