Digital Stylus Tracking Force Gauge

[RobbieGong]

I have one but would like another as a backup.

Anyone have any experience of any of these, are they ok ? - I dont want to spend too much

Are the first two pretty much the same thing ? Any recommendations....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Cartridge-Stylus-Force-Scale-Tracking-Gauge-0-01g-Tonearm-Phono-Battery-/291971872360?hash=item43fae13668:g:0iYAAOSw5cNYUR0 S

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Cartridge-Stylus-Tracking-Force-Scale-Gauge-0-01g-including-BATTERIES-UK-/301224702195?hash=item46226430f3:g:o7UAAOSwT-FZCVHd

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301065167440

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100g-0-005g-Precision-Turntable-Stylus-Tracking-Force-Pressure-Jewelry-Scale-/152550883764?hash=item2384bdc1b4:g:nZ4AAOSw9OFZG1x c

[Jimbo]

I have one of those Rob, they are good for the money and accurate.

[RobbieGong]

Hi Jimbo, Trust all is good in the world of the mighty Black ? :)

Incidentally, which one of the gauges are you referring ?

[Jimbo]

Hi Jimbo, Trust all is good in the world of the mighty Black ? :)

Incidentally, which one of the gauges are you referring ?

Hi Rob, yes the mighty black is back to its usual sonic nirvana. :)

The gauge I have is the first link you put up.

I have another stylus balance which is better but it is £25 and not sure if available as it came with my VPI

[RobbieGong]

Cheers Jim :)

[Ian7633]

I've got the first one and does the job very well. Some " clever " people put a posh makers name on them and try to charge five times as much........gits.

[RobbieGong]

I've got the first one and does the job very well. Some " clever " people put a posh makers name on them and try to charge five times as much........gits.

That's true Ian. I've found that with a lot of other items too. Cheap but effective things from China.

The differences and amounts some people try to add on can be shocking :eek:

[Ali Tait]

'Nother vote for the first one, does the job.

[RobbieGong]

'Nother vote for the first one, does the job.

Cheers Ali, cheers guys - just bought the first one :)

[Barry]

Well done - it's what I use. :)

Just remember, 'resolution' is not the same as 'accuracy'.

[Spectral Morn]

I have one branded Roksan. Unlike their turntables it works every time and was easy to set up.

Same Chinese one as in the first two links.

[Ian7633]

I have one branded Roksan. Unlike their turntables it works every time and was easy to set up.

Same Chinese one as in the first two links.

I've seen them with Roksan, Ortofon, and Linn written on them but they are all the same

[Jac Hawk]

I've got the first one and does the job very well. Some " clever " people put a posh makers name on them and try to charge five times as much........gits.

True and there are people that buy them at those prices too, at the end of the day it's a set of scales, they all come with a 5g weight to calibrate them, some are a bit easier to use than others, but that's it

[Clive197]

I've used the one in the 1st link for a couple of years now, no problems and still going strong. Don't see any reason to spend more to get a posh branded model.

[Dubster68]

I have one but would like another as a backup.

Anyone have any experience of any of these, are they ok ? - I dont want to spend too much

Are the first two pretty much the same thing ? Any recommendations....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Cartridge-Stylus-Force-Scale-Tracking-Gauge-0-01g-Tonearm-Phono-Battery-/291971872360?hash=item43fae13668:g:0iYAAOSw5cNYUR0 S

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Cartridge-Stylus-Tracking-Force-Scale-Gauge-0-01g-including-BATTERIES-UK-/301224702195?hash=item46226430f3:g:o7UAAOSwT-FZCVHd

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301065167440

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100g-0-005g-Precision-Turntable-Stylus-Tracking-Force-Pressure-Jewelry-Scale-/152550883764?hash=item2384bdc1b4:g:nZ4AAOSw9OFZG1x c
Rob I use the second from last on your list.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301065167440

Had it a few year it its worked perfect and very accurate.

[Audio Al]

I have one but would like another as a backup.

Anyone have any experience of any of these, are they ok ? - I dont want to spend too much

Are the first two pretty much the same thing ? Any recommendations....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Cartridge-Stylus-Force-Scale-Tracking-Gauge-0-01g-Tonearm-Phono-Battery-/291971872360?hash=item43fae13668:g:0iYAAOSw5cNYUR0 S

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Cartridge-Stylus-Tracking-Force-Scale-Gauge-0-01g-including-BATTERIES-UK-/301224702195?hash=item46226430f3:g:o7UAAOSwT-FZCVHd

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301065167440

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100g-0-005g-Precision-Turntable-Stylus-Tracking-Force-Pressure-Jewelry-Scale-/152550883764?hash=item2384bdc1b4:g:nZ4AAOSw9OFZG1x c

I have the first one on the list , its the same as the second one ? , it eats batteries , I am looking at buying a better unit

[bob4333]

'Nother vote for the first one, does the job.

And another. :) Must be at least 7 or 8 years.

Batteries seem to last well though. Must have got lucky.

[Qwin]

I also have one like the first/second links.

I don't like it.

The weighing tray is not horizontal (on mine anyway) and sits at an angle, with low slung cartridges, the back of the cartridge hits the edge of the tray before the cantilever has settled under the weight. The stylus tip has to be at the centre of the tray for an accurate reading so its difficult to get right. I have resorted to putting a small puck of plastic in the centre of the tray and zeroing the meter and resting the stylus on top of the puck.

It works, but I'm looking at alternatives with flat trays.

Maybe this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290950308010?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Spider]

I use one of these I reckon it does the job well.
I use a 1p to check accuracy and I find mine to be within 0.01g which I think is accurate enough.

[farflungstar]

It isn't only about accuracy - it's about positioning. Weight changes dramatically with height and so you need to know what the weight is at the disk surface. Doing this with a typical Chinese device isn't easy if not impossible. I use the Clearaudio which whilst as accurate as a good Chinese device allows you to measure at disc surface.

[karma67]

I also have one like the first/second links.

I don't like it.

The weighing tray is not horizontal (on mine anyway) and sits at an angle, with low slung cartridges, the back of the cartridge hits the edge of the tray before the cantilever has settled under the weight. The stylus tip has to be at the centre of the tray for an accurate reading so its difficult to get right. I have resorted to putting a small puck of plastic in the centre of the tray and zeroing the meter and resting the stylus on top of the puck.

It works, but I'm looking at alternatives with flat trays.

Maybe this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290950308010?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

thats a good point re the cartridge sitting on the scales,ive had that trouble with mine.

[Barry]

It isn't only about accuracy - it's about positioning. Weight changes dramatically with height and so you need to know what the weight is at the disk surface. Doing this with a typical Chinese device isn't easy if not impossible. I use the Clearaudio which whilst as accurate as a good Chinese device allows you to measure at disc surface.

That's another myth. The error involved in measuring the force a few mm away from the record surface, is likely to be less than the accuracy of the scales. Do the maths.

[farflungstar]

You're welcome to your opinion but having done a lot of reading and research on the topic, and having a cart with a 0.2g tolerance I like to know the actual weight at the playing surface. I have experimented and there is a difference - try it.

[Barry]

You're welcome to your opinion but having done a lot of reading and research on the topic, and having a cart with a 0.2g tolerance I like to know the actual weight at the playing surface. I have experimented and there is a difference - try it.

And you're welcome to yours.

[RobbieGong]

I've always set tracking force with scales that have a low platform ie: as close to the level of a record as possible - kind of makes sense in my little head.

I too have been lead to believe that weight changes with height and so on......

[Barry]

I've always set tracking force with scales that have a low platform ie: as close to the level of a record as possible - kind of makes sense in my little head.

I too have been lead to believe that weight changes with height and so on......

Yes it does, but the change is very small. For example with a 9" arm, if the weighing platform is 6mm above the record surface, the error involved is 0.04%. So if the measured force is say 2g, the actual force will be 2.0008g. That is an error of 0.8mg. I doubt even the best stylus force gauges have an accuracy of better than 0.005g (5mg).

[RobbieGong]

Yes it does, but the change is very small. For example with a 9" arm, if the weighing platform is 6mm above the record surface, the error involved is 0.04%. So if the measured force is say 2g, the actual force will be 2.0008g. That is an error of 0.8mg. I doubt even the best stylus force gauges have an accuracy of better than 0.005g (5mg).
If that's true Barry (I'd never get my head around the physics \ maths of it ) then thanks for sharing and the insight that were not talking the big differences as we might think.

[Audio Al]

:eek:

If the spod washer is rotated across the tangental radius and alined with jupiter then it relieves the affect on the flu flu la piffy differential on the stylus ;)

[RobbieGong]

:eek:

If the spod washer is rotated across the tangental radius and alined with jupiter then it relieves the affect on the flu flu la piffy differential on the stylus ;)

Wow! Some strong juice ya sippin tonight Al :eek: :lol:

[walpurgis]

:eek:

If the spod washer is rotated across the tangental radius and alined with jupiter then it relieves the affect on the flu flu la piffy differential on the stylus ;)

Same applies to blowing up the tyres on yer pushbike! :D

[Audio Al]

Wow! Some strong juice ya sippin tonight Al :eek: :lol:

:cool::cool::cool: i have run out now :(

[farflungstar]

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/in_balance_e.html

[alphaGT]

I have one like the first two. I had one before, that worked well at first but went south on me. I shopped around and bought a second one, nearly exactly like it, and this time I could not be happier. The scale pan is low enough to be about the height of a 180g record, and results are easily repeatable. Sure beats those old Shure fulcrum scales!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Audio Al]

Just won one of these with a lower weighing platform and a bigger batterie :)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100g-0-005g-Precision-Turntable-Stylus-Tracking-Force-Pressure-Jewelry-Scale-/142369705841?hash=item2125e54f71:g:060AAOSwX61ZCYR e

[Barry]

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/in_balance_e.html

I'm aware of that article, however there is insufficient detail of the various arm geometries for me to place confidence in his computer model. This applies especially to the unipivot design. Interesting nonetheless.

All of my arms follow his 'generic' geometry, and I'm not bothered about an overestimate of the VTF of 0.01 - 0.02g.

Calibrating the electronic scales with weights used with the Mitchell balance (themselves measured using a chemical balance against weights checked by the National Physical Laboratory), I find the electronic scales generally under-read by 2 - 3% (or about 0.04g at 2g).

[Barry]

Just won one of these with a lower weighing platform and a bigger batterie :)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100g-0-005g-Precision-Turntable-Stylus-Tracking-Force-Pressure-Jewelry-Scale-/142369705841?hash=item2125e54f71:g:060AAOSwX61ZCYR e

Looks good - but I doubt if it is accurate to 0.005g.

[farflungstar]

I'm aware of that article, however there is insufficient detail of the various arm geometries for me to place confidence in his computer model. This applies especially to the unipivot design. Interesting nonetheless.

All of my arms follow his 'generic' geometry, and I'm not bothered about an overestimate of the VTF of 0.01 - 0.02g.

Calibrating the electronic scales with weights used with the Mitchell balance (themselves measured using a chemical balance against weights checked by the National Physical Laboratory), I find the electronic scales generally under-read by 2 - 3% (or about 0.04g at 2g).
Yeah I have the Mitchell weights and use them to check accuracy.

[walpurgis]

Looks good - but I doubt if it is accurate to 0.005g.

Why would anybody want that degree of accuracy though? Cartridges of the same model each vary slightly in compliance, so tracking force recommendations are a little arbitrary.

[Arkless Electronics]

I have an ancient Colton "Variscale" analogue one which is very nice and works great. I wouldn't trust a digital one.

[Barry]

Why would anybody want that degree of accuracy though? Cartridges of the same model each vary slightly in compliance, so tracking force recommendations are a little arbitrary.

Agreed - but the way scales are advertised, they (deliberately?) confuse 'resolution' with 'accuracy', or at least make it ambigious.

All I require are scales that have a resolution to 0.01g, and an accuracy of +/-2% (or +/-0.04g at 2g).

Not only do cartridges vary slightly in compliance sample-to-sample, the compliance also varies with temperature, to the effect that many cartridges operate best when the ambient temperature in the vicinity of the cartridge is ~ 23 degC.

[Barry]

I have an ancient Colton "Variscale" analogue one which is very nice and works great. I wouldn't trust a digital one.

I have an 'analogue', purely mechanical stylus balance - a Transcriptors/Mitchell device. Not easy to use, but very accurate and doesn't need batteries. The only limitation is the maximum VTF it can check is 2.65g. Some of my cartridges need a VTF of 3g.

[alphaGT]

A digital scale made for weighing phono needles sure makes life easy. Reasonable accuracy and big backlit numbers to give us dependable readings. Working with those tiny mechanical beam scales of the past was tedious work. But, once I've gotten a good reading on the scale, I tend to look at the needle in the groove. With a magnifying lens. I may increase or decrease the weight to get the angle I want. I've heard different numbers on stylus angles, 92 degrees seems like I read that in the paperwork that came with my Sumiko? So, I measure it once I get it where I like it, and try to keep that as my reference.

I've often wondered why phono cartridge makers give such a margin of VTF? Why 1.7 to 2.3? Why not just spell it out and give me an exact weight? Well the short answer is compliance. As the suspension on the cantilever wears, it probably takes less weight to get the diamond into the proper position. Over the life of the cartridge the VTF will change. I've heard many who get to the recommended VTF and then adjust by ear, also a solid method, but I am thinking that when it sounds best, is when the diamond is at the correct angle in the groove. If that is the recommended angle or not? Depends on the maker. I'm guessing it will be close.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GJO]

I have the one shown in the link,usually set up with it and double check with the Shure,as previously mentioned,they eat batteries,so remove them when not in use.