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Bigman80
09-05-2017, 15:56
Seeing as I currently have no FB-OTP (while some mods are carried out),Alan has loaned me his Tron Convergence.

Here are my thoughts from an extensive day of listening.

Tron review,

Build & Looks

The case has plastic sides, front & back and Aluminium top and base. At this price point i would like to see a solid metal construction throughout. It's also HUGE which is........irrelevant if you have room for it!

The front is very nicely badged and the power switch has illumination which gives it a nice look and feel. Standard rubber feet are screwed in to the case.

Overall, apart from the plastic, I like the construction. Its weighty and sold looks imposing and eye catching on my shelf. Nice!

Sound

The first thing that springs to mind as i drop the needle on Noels Gallagher's High Flying Birds is how dark it sounds. The bottom end feels a bit overpowering. I adjust my speakers to Increase mids and treble via the controls on the rear panel and it sounds instantly better. So, half way into "If i had a gun" and i'm loving the channel separation and clarity. This is a very clean sounding phono stage. Treble i feel is a little rolled off and its starting to distract me. I put Eric Clapton's Unplugged album on and play "Running On Faith" This is a great track to check for detail. In the song a metal bottleneck is used and in the right system the "zing" it creates as it slides is apparent and yes, we have it and it sounds very metallic which is excellent. Guitar sounds very good with attack and decay mimicking the natural sound of a note but i still think the tone is off a little, a bit too heavy. The noise floor is extremely low and i've got as near to silence as i've heard in between tracks.

Next, Stevie Ray Vaughn – Tin Pan Alley. This track has lots of atmosphere and i'm getting it in spades through the Tron. Bass line is sweet and full. It feels "fat" too which is excellent. The Toms are very nicely replicated too. The soundstage is excellent and it really gives a sense of depth and is very 3D. Holographic isn't a word i've understood in terms of audio equipment, until now. Its actually becoming better as i listen to it, either its warming up or i am becoming more tuned in to its presentation.

Next, Yello – The Race. WOW! Those drums sound insanely good and the racing car that flies by from left to right is incredibly realistic. The depth of the singers vocals really shines through and there's a wonderful "rhaspy" quality. Again, its very clean and dynamic, subtle and engaging. Cymbals also sound very accurate, the contact of the drumstick on the metal is audible which is again a very good sign.

Next, The Beatles – Martha My Dear. Ah! The brass section has arrived and boy has it! Beautifully recreated and presented by the Tron. I am surprised at the realism of the brass. Vocals are very credible too. Quickly were on to "I'm so tired" and there's a lovely crunch to the guitars sound. Its almost grungy but that's how it was supposed to sound. "Blackbird" starts and again i'm feeling it's a little flat or dark sounding. The shimmer of the acoustic is missing slightly and McCartneys Gibson sounds a bit like an Epiphone, Good but not the real thing. Strings, Brass and Drums have sounded magnificent so far.

So, overall i am impressed by what i am hearing. I should point out that this version has been slightly modified by Alan @ Firebottle.

When i heard this Tron at Alans (pre-mod) I was underwhelmed by its performance. It sounded flat, dull and a bit lifeless. Sure, it had great clarity, soundstage, imaging and depth but it just didn't sparkle. As the listening session wore on, the Tron improved greatly but it never fully got away from sounding compressed. Post modification, it's not a different animal but it has opened up the sound somewhat. There's a bit of freedom on the notes, decay is better, attack is better and it doesn't feel as restricted as it did. Previously i felt a bit like i would if i'd bought a Ferrari that has been limited to 50mph. It's frustrating because you KNOW it can do more.

Build wise, its solid. A well designed unit that feels substantial but not quite premier. That's down to the plastic. One bit i love is the power button. Its beautiful and feels like quality. A bit of research pointed me to Maplin for a similar, if not the same switch for £9! I'm going to get a couple for future projects. The badge is well done too. The markings on the rear are disappearing though but i suspect that's down to it being 3rd hand.

Sound wise. It's solid again, but not quite premier. I also think it colours the sound. I personally prefer a transparent sound. I want to hear the record as it was made. The Tron has a voice of its own and some will love that. Tron's suggested sales figures would certainly suggest so, but i'm a purist. I want the guitar to ring and i want to hear the fret buzz. I want violins to sound harsh on the high notes. When my Daughter plays her Violin, it has a definite edge to the notes which i haven't heard here. I like the Tron, but not enough for the price. The receipt in the box says £1045.

It's a good phono stage in its stock form and if you're in the market its worth an audition. I prefer the modded version but be aware, any mods will nullify your 2 year warranty.

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the authors and do not reflect the views of any other person.

°°°**UPDATE**°°°

The Tron is going back to Alan @Firebottle tomorrow and I feel compelled to say a few final words

The Tron is a better unit than I original assessed. Over the few days ive had it here, its gotten a lot better which leads me to believe it needs some hours on it to burn in/run in/open up etc.

The amount of joy I felt today when the string section suddenly came alive on a Simon & Garfunkel gave me goosebumps. It was phenomenal. The midrange has a sweet point it never reached before and the bass was precise. The best part is the TONE improved. Where I felt it was quite dark previously, it now sounded better balanced in the neutral part of the scale. Although not entirely in with both feet. More like it had it's toes in the water.

Overall, I think I'll miss this phono stage a little bit. If money was no object, id have one in a flash.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170509/0fbef0bcbe6189bfe34cb6712bcf985f.jpg

Pieoftheday
09-05-2017, 17:15
Seeing as I currently have no FB-OTP (while some mods are carried out),Alan kindly has loaned me his Tron Convergence.

Over the next few days or so, ill give it a good thrashing and write my findings down. So hopefully we will end up with a review somewhere on here.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170509/0fbef0bcbe6189bfe34cb6712bcf985f.jpg

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Forgive my ignorance,what is it? :)

Bigman80
09-05-2017, 17:21
Forgive my ignorance,what is it? :)
Haha, is a phono stage. I should've said really 🤔

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Marco
09-05-2017, 17:35
And where should discussions about phono stages have been posted? Clue: not here! ;)

Marco.

Bigman80
09-05-2017, 17:36
And where should discussions about phono stages have been posted? Clue: not here! ;)

Marco.
Oops, sorry Marco. Where should it be?

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Marco
09-05-2017, 17:41
I'll leave you to have a think about that.... Read the titles of all the rooms, and if you get it right, you'll get a packet of Smarties! ;)

Marco.

Pieoftheday
09-05-2017, 17:47
I'll leave you to have a think about that.... Read the titles of all the rooms and if you get it right, you'll get a packet of Smarties! ;)

Marco.

Ooh ooh analogue art:ner:

paulf-2007
09-05-2017, 19:12
There's always one who can't wait to get in and I was going to give him a prize if he got it right.......a pair of used socks.

Pieoftheday
09-05-2017, 19:20
There's always Obie who can't wait to get in and I was going to give him a prize if he got it right.......a pair of used socks.

I want the smarties:cool:

walpurgis
09-05-2017, 19:21
I want the smarties:cool:

Nah. You get the used chewing gum mate! ;) :D

Bigman80
09-05-2017, 19:31
Analogue art suggests picture of arty persuasion ! Ok, can we move it ?

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Bigman80
09-05-2017, 22:05
Review added!

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topoxforddoc
10-05-2017, 06:30
Oliver,

Nice review. I agree that it sounds very open with very good sound staging and great dynamics. The attack on the Convergence is particularly noticeable on percussion and piano (the hardest instrument to get right IMHO). It made my Allaerts MC1B cartridge sound almost like a Decca, when I heard it. http://topoxforddoc.zenfolio.com/blog/2015/4/hi--fi-review---tron-convergence-phono-stage

It is one of the quietist phono stages I have heard - exceptionally so at that price point. This is really important if you use high efficiency horns, like my 104 dB/W Avantgardes, as any circuit noise gets picked up instantly. For instance I can't use my Radford STA15/III with my horns, as the noise is intrusive, even though the STA sounds really sweet.

I should have a listen to one of Firebottle's phono stages, if only for educational reasons. I think it is amazing if Alan can produce a phono stage as good as or better than the TRON at the price point, particularly given the costs of production engineering and regulatory costs, such as CE certification (which isn't insignificant for a small volume manufacturer).

Bigman80
10-05-2017, 06:41
Oliver,

Nice review. I agree that it sounds very open with very good sound staging and great dynamics. The attack on the Convergence is particularly noticeable on percussion and piano (the hardest instrument to get right IMHO). It made my Allaerts MC1B cartridge sound almost like a Decca, when I heard it. http://topoxforddoc.zenfolio.com/blog/2015/4/hi--fi-review---tron-convergence-phono-stage

It is one of the quietist phono stages I have heard - exceptionally so at that price point. This is really important if you use high efficiency horns, like my 104 dB/W Avantgardes, as any circuit noise gets picked up instantly. For instance I can't use my Radford STA15/III with my horns, as the noise is intrusive, even though the STA sounds really sweet.

I should have a listen to one of Firebottle's phono stages, if only for educational reasons. I think it is amazing if Alan can produce a phono stage as good as or better than the TRON at the price point, particularly given the costs of production engineering and regulatory costs, such as CE certification (which isn't insignificant for a small volume manufacturer).
Thanks!

I like the Tron and it definitely does a lot right IMO. The quietness is something to be impressed by too. Its impressive.

I recommend listening to a Firebottle Vivant, for educational purposes of course 😉



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Jimbo
10-05-2017, 06:42
Oliver,

Nice review. I agree that it sounds very open with very good sound staging and great dynamics. The attack on the Convergence is particularly noticeable on percussion and piano (the hardest instrument to get right IMHO). It made my Allaerts MC1B cartridge sound almost like a Decca, when I heard it. http://topoxforddoc.zenfolio.com/blog/2015/4/hi--fi-review---tron-convergence-phono-stage

It is one of the quietist phono stages I have heard - exceptionally so at that price point. This is really important if you use high efficiency horns, like my 104 dB/W Avantgardes, as any circuit noise gets picked up instantly. For instance I can't use my Radford STA15/III with my horns, as the noise is intrusive, even though the STA sounds really sweet.

I should have a listen to one of Firebottle's phono stages, if only for educational reasons. I think it is amazing if Alan can produce a phono stage as good as or better than the TRON at the price point, particularly given the costs of production engineering and regulatory costs, such as CE certification (which isn't insignificant for a small volume manufacturer).

Not sure if Firebottle's have CE certification, so maybe Alan can comment?

Firebottle
10-05-2017, 06:57
Self certification with a Technical File is all that is required.

YNWaN
10-05-2017, 07:52
CE certification for small electronics companies isn't particularly arduous. As above, self certification is quite legal and easy to do. However, that's not to say there aren't many other hidden costs.

A 'quiet' phonostage, in that it adds very little noise of its own, is an absolute must as far as I am concerned - otherwise a genuinely wide dynamic range is impossible. This is particularly difficult to achieve with MC valve stages and the primary problem I encountered when I tried one of Alan's designs.

G T Audio
10-05-2017, 08:17
Self certification with a Technical File is all that is required.

You might want to check this again because the rules were updated a few years ago. A manufacturer can self certify but they must have all the documentation and evidence to back up their tests for CE approval and this is the expensive bit. Conformity now includes the EMC (Electro Magnetic Compatibility) directive which requires a lot of very expensive test equipment and an EMC testing laboratory and RFI chamber - think upwards of £500,000 for this which is why most manufacturers go to a dedicated testing facility to obtain the documentation/conformity.

The EMC Directive covers apparatus sold as single functional units to end users, which are either liable to generate electromagnetic disturbance, or could see their performance affected by it.

If an enforcement body finds your product does not meet CE marking requirements, they will often provide you with an opportunity to ensure it is correctly CE marked. If you fail to comply with this, you will be obliged to take your product off the market. You may also be liable for a fine (€20,000) and imprisonment.

Technical documentation.
Annex II to the EMC Directive requires the manufacturer to establish the technical documentation. The technical documents must enable the assessment of the conformity of the appliance with the requirements of the Directive.
The technical documentation should comprise:
A general description of the apparatus; conceptual design and manufacturing drawings and schemes of components, sub-assemblies, circuits, etc.; descriptions and explanations necessary for the understanding of those drawings and schemes and the operation of the apparatus; Evidence of compliance with the harmonised standards, if any, applied in full or in part; Where the manufacturer has not applied harmonised standards, or has applied them only in part, a description and explanation of the solution adopted to meet the essential requirements of the Directive, including a list of other relevant technical specifications applied; results of design calculations made, examinations carried out, test reports, etc;
A statement from the notified body, when the procedure referred to in Annex III has been followed. The manufacturer or his authorised representative established in the European Union is requested to keep copies of the technical documentation for a period of 10 years after the last product was placed on the market.

Bigbird
10-05-2017, 08:25
Nice write up mate! What are the mods you are having done ?

Bigman80
10-05-2017, 08:30
Nice write up mate! What are the mods you are having done ?
Well, thats one for a separate message lol

Ill be in touch. 😉

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Bigman80
10-05-2017, 08:32
CE certification for small electronics companies isn't particularly arduous. As above, self certification is quite legal and easy to do. However, that's not to say there aren't many other hidden costs.

A 'quiet' phonostage, in that it adds very little noise of its own, is an absolute must as far as I am concerned - otherwise a genuinely wide dynamic range is impossible. This is particularly difficult to achieve with MC valve stages and the primary problem I encountered when I tried one of Alan's designs.
Noise as in "hiss? Hum? Buzz? Because it was the lack of the aforementioned that impressed with the Tron. Not had that problem with a Firebottle design either though.

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petrat
10-05-2017, 08:53
I am confused. Is this the Tron that Firebottle tampered with? If so, it's not a standard product, and putting a review of a modded version on the web may mislead people in the future.

walpurgis
10-05-2017, 09:03
I am confused. Is this the Tron that Firebottle tampered with? If so, it's not a standard product, and putting a review of a modded version on the web may mislead people in the future.

A review of anything modified is OK, as long as it is clearly stated that the product is not in standard condition (particularly if it is a manufacturer's current offering).

Many of us modify our equipment, this is all part of the fun for the Hi-Fi hobbyist.





.

CageyH
10-05-2017, 09:21
Should the title be changed to make it clear then?

Spectral Morn
10-05-2017, 09:36
Should the title be changed to make it clear then?

I would say definitely yes it should.

walpurgis
10-05-2017, 09:40
Done!

Bigman80
10-05-2017, 11:20
CE Conformity

"In 2004 the original directive was repealed by directive 2004/108/EC with the following changes being implemented. Manufacturers no longer require mandatory third party involvement to assess conformity providing the requirements of the directive have been followed"

Seems CE conformity is indeed covered by a Technical file unless theres some legislation i cant find? can you assist with a link Graham?

Jimbo
10-05-2017, 11:37
Thanks!

I like the Tron and it definitely does a lot right IMO. The quietness is something to be impressed by too. Its impressive.

I recommend listening to a Firebottle Vivant, for educational purposes of course 😉



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I have heard the Vivant and the KIN with equivalent phono stage and indeed they are very good but for me they do not give me that live realism I get from the Croft 25R+. When we compared the KIN to the Croft the KIN had wider smoother soundstage if I remember but as I have very recently found out we were listening to my Croft with knackered caps. Since I have had these replaced the goal post has moved somewhat and I would say soundstage is similar and all other aspects have improved considerably plus it has that extra bit of Croft magic:)

Bigman80
10-05-2017, 11:38
I have heard the Vivant and the KIN with equivalent phono stage and indeed they are very good but for me they do not give me that live realism I get from the Croft 25R+. When we compared the KIN to the Croft the KIN had wider smoother soundstage if I remember but as I have very recently found out we were listening to my Croft with knackered caps. Since I have had these replaced the goal post has moved somewhat and I would say soundstage is similar and all other aspects have improved considerably plus it has that extra bit of Croft magic:)
Well, hopefully jim ill get a look at that very soon. Im still trying to find a day to get to yours !

Just point out that your croft​ is £400 more than the Firebottle units. Id hope it's be better ! Lol
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Jimbo
10-05-2017, 11:42
I will keep firing dates at you Oliver as they come up.:) Sorry they are all over the place but I live a hectic life, will explain when we meet up!:)

Bigman80
10-05-2017, 11:48
I will keep firing dates at you Oliver as they come up.:) Sorry they are all over the place but I live a hectic life, will explain when we meet up!:)
No worries Jim, I too have a hectic schedule but I have an open mind and a willingness to indulge my audio addiction. We shall meet!!!! lol

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G T Audio
10-05-2017, 15:19
Self certification with a Technical File is all that is required.

Alan, apart from CE compliance mentioned in my last post, any electronic parts used in any piece of domestic electronics made today will have to adhere to the RoHS (Removal of Hazardous Substances) Directive. As a manufacturer you must also know about the WEEE (Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment) Directive.
As you know you have to be registered with WEEE and report to them regularly on production numbers of equipment made based on weight so appropriate charging can be made for their future disposal. As anyone can see, if you factor in all this extra overhead and cost it can add up to a sizeable sum which has to be added to the overall cost of the electronic product. Unfortunately building an amplifier today is not as simple as it was back in the 1980s, where guys like Glenn Croft (I have huge respect for Glenn and sold many of his amplifiers back in the 1990s) could bang out an amp made from components from the surplus store. The EU and all its regulations and laws has put pay to that one...

struth
10-05-2017, 15:22
Probably not for long tho. most eu directives will be no doubt scrapped. sad but true in some cases.

Firebottle
10-05-2017, 15:54
Hi Graham, I have been involved with the design, EMC testing and full compliance with many products throughout my career, so it could be said you are preaching to the converted in his case.
However it is good to have the regulatory position and its associated add on costs explained so the lay public have some appreciation of why modern gear costs what it does.

Cheers,
Alan

Bigman80
10-05-2017, 16:10
Spot on Grant

I think this whole saga is a bit OTT to be honest.

GT,

Im not sure what youre trying to say in your posts? Are you Justifying the price of your product?

The price is £125 per annum for WEEE registration for less than £1m in sales, im pretty sure that wouldn't be an issue and as for there being no need for third party CE certification im not really sure where this extra cost is coming from. I'll do some research into the costs for the testing etc. RoHS is available on the net for free too.

Im finding this part very enlightening and its demonstrating why Cottage industry builders are doing very well!

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Stryder5
10-05-2017, 17:01
I like the way Douglas Bader thinks in his quote,

"Rules are meant for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men".

Bigman80
10-05-2017, 17:16
I like the way Douglas Bader thinks in his quote,

"Rules are meant for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men".
Hahaha you rogue, Gary

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Macca
10-05-2017, 17:22
I like the way Douglas Bader thinks in his quote,

"Rules are meant for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men".

Brilliant! I'm going to be using that quote a lot :)

Arkless Electronics
10-05-2017, 17:26
I like the way Douglas Bader thinks in his quote,

"Rules are meant for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men".

Ah I've used that quote for decades and always assumed it was something from the distant past like Chaucer, or the bard... Douglas Bader eh? Yer learns something every day:)

struth
10-05-2017, 17:32
Was actually group captain harry day

Stryder5
10-05-2017, 17:49
Ah I've used that quote for decades and always assumed it was something from the distant past like Chaucer, or the bard... Douglas Bader eh? Yer learns something every day:)

You're older than you look:D

Stryder5
10-05-2017, 17:58
Was actually group captain harry day

I agree attributed to Harry Day, but quoted by Douglas Bader in the film "Reach for the Skies".

struth
10-05-2017, 18:06
Harry was baders commander in the aerobatics team when he crashed. He was later a member of the great escapers. Was lucky too as he was marked down to be one of the 50 to be e executed

Bigman80
11-05-2017, 23:13
Updated

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walpurgis
11-05-2017, 23:16
Wondered where you'd got to Oliver. You've been missing today! :D

Bigman80
12-05-2017, 07:12
Wondered where you'd got to Oliver. You've been missing today! :D
Yes, had a bit of news about my temporary job which hasn't gone my way so took a bit of time away from everything and just listened to the Tron. It really is very good.

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Pieoftheday
12-05-2017, 07:32
Nah. You get the used chewing gum mate! ;) :D

Is it still minty?

Firebottle
12-05-2017, 12:11
The modified Tron has had a jump in performance this morning, see http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?51361-Phono-Stage-Shootout&p=863118#post863118.

Cheers,
Alan

topoxforddoc
12-05-2017, 17:37
Sounds like the TRON Convergence is there or thereabouts. The ultra quiet circuit is really important in vinyl replay, even if you don;t have insanely efficient speakers like I do. The lack of circuit noise enhances the quiet moments on the record and hence increases the available dynamic range. You get the same benefit when using a really high quality (esp DC battery) PSU on a turntable motor - just makes the silent bits inky black. Making the circuit ultra quiet must be very hard, esp with valves.

Bigman80
12-05-2017, 17:42
Yes, its impressively quiet. Its a real achievment.

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Firebottle
12-05-2017, 18:24
Charlie I can say with some conviction that the Tron is now there.

We are doing some comparisons with the modified Tron and my KIN preamp. They are now really close.

The Tron majors on channel separation, so gives a wide soundstage, the KIN majors on a greater depth to the soundstage (lower IMD?).

It would be great to come down to you and have a bake off with your Tron Severn Reference, are you up for it?

:D

Bigman80
12-05-2017, 18:38
Charlie I can say with some conviction that the Tron is now there.

We are doing some comparisons with the modified Tron and my KIN preamp. They are now really close.

The Tron majors on channel separation, so gives a wide soundstage, the KIN majors on a greater depth to the soundstage (lower IMD?).

It would be great to come down to you and have a bake off with your Tron Severn Reference, are you up for it?

:D
1st refusal when you sell the Tron!!!!!

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Firebottle
12-05-2017, 18:48
You've got it Oliver :ner:

blackstar
12-05-2017, 19:00
Where is the manufacturer of the Tron? He was here....wasn't he?

Firebottle
12-05-2017, 19:04
Yes it's Graham from GT Audio.

Bigman80
12-05-2017, 19:11
:eyebrows: currently advertising my kidneys on ebay

smangus
12-05-2017, 20:07
:eyebrows: currently advertising my kidneys on ebay

Not gonna get you much with your breakfast history.......

Bigman80
12-05-2017, 20:08
Not gonna get you much with your breakfast history.......
Lmao. To be fair mate, it was a bit of a one off. Treated myself [emoji12]

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smangus
12-05-2017, 20:09
:D:D

Stryder5
13-05-2017, 08:14
:eyebrows: currently advertising my kidneys on ebay

Do they come with Chianti��

ianlenco
14-05-2017, 16:33
Alan visited today and brought his Tron for a listen. Once we'd let the cartridge (Zyx R50 Bloom) warm up Alan put on Flag by Yello, not an LP I've familiar with but it sounded rather excellent. Then onto an XX album which I am familiar with. I adopted my critic's face, concentrating on width, depth, bass, treble and all the other audiofool stuff but that didn't last even a single track, I just got sucked into the music, enthralling. Clearly this is a quite excellent phono stage. I don't know how the standard Tron would compare but the fired up one is certainly a very fine amplifier.
Thanks Alan.

G T Audio
14-05-2017, 17:40
Now I have had a little more time today away from the workshop I have attached some documentation of the Convergence RIAA and it's accuracy seeing as it was bought into question earlier in the week.
The attached data shows the accuracy of the Convergence (yellow line) is within the limits quoted (within 0.5dB) of the RIAA curve (blue line).

http://www.tron-electric.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/RIAA-Data-ConvergenceW-Sheet1.jpg

http://www.tron-electric.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/RIAA-Data-ConvergenceW-Graph-LF.jpg

http://www.tron-electric.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/RIAA-Data-ConvergenceW-Graph-HF.jpg
Note: the frequency scale on the two graphs are linear and not logarithmic.

The Convergence has been in production for 3 years and as Tron-Electric is an established manufacturer I have about 25 things that I could implement into this design to take if further if I need too, or if I am asked too. Most manufacturers do this anyway so as to keep ahead of the competition. However experience has taught me to only make changes when these are absolutely necessary so the design is not constantly changing and customers know exactly what they are getting. The Tron Seven Phono stage was in production for 5 years before it had its first update.

A lot of work went into the design of the Convergence and it is engineered as a commercial design that can be sold in hundreds / thousands rather than just a handful. So far the Convergence seems to have been very popular and many owners, particularly those with high efficiency loudspeakers (>95dB) love the refined sound and the low noise. To put minds at rest the internal MC transformers are of excellent quality and I subsidise these in the MC version to keep the price at £1000.

Marco
14-05-2017, 17:41
Pics not working here, Graham... Btw, you have a PM, regarding populating your trade room :)

Marco.

JohnJo
14-05-2017, 17:56
Pics working for me

struth
14-05-2017, 18:00
not for me they aint

karma67
14-05-2017, 18:12
or me

JohnJo
14-05-2017, 18:28
Get yerselves an iphone :ner:

Wakefield Turntables
14-05-2017, 18:38
Pics working fine on Firefox. I have to say that it's very generous of Graham supplying all this information. It certainly makes for a more informed choice when selecting components from the many talented designers on AOS.

struth
14-05-2017, 18:49
yup they are working now.

topoxforddoc
14-05-2017, 19:06
Wow, the RIAA EQ on the TRON looks a great match to the RIAA standard on the curves. I'm not a designer, so please excuse me if every audio manufacturer gets them this close. Perhaps others on this forum could share their knowledge or even their data, so that we can all see.

Arkless Electronics
14-05-2017, 19:20
Wow, the RIAA EQ on the TRON looks a great match to the RIAA standard on the curves. I'm not a designer, so please excuse me if every audio manufacturer gets them this close. Perhaps others on this forum could share their knowledge or even their data, so that we can all see.

The Tron's not bad but most of my phono stages are considerably more accurate still than that.. +/- 0.05dB in most cases though I normally quote it as +/- 0.1dB

I'm afraid I'm not about to go through the measurements again to make them into pretty graphs though!

It needs to be born in mind though that a reverse RIAA eq network must be used to generate an inverse curve against which to measure the RIAA accuracy of a phono stage. this network must itself be very accurate indeed of course. I guess it could be generated digitally nowadays but I'm a traditionalist;)

I rather doubt that the tiny inaccuracies of the Tron's eq would be sufficient to have any but a very minor effect on it's ability to reproduce a squarewave. As an aside here, if you pass a squarewave through a reverse RIAA generator (awkward it itself as a certain amount of HF bandwidth restriction must be used otherwise it will try to produce infinite treble boost!) and then feed this through a phono stage under test you should then see a squarewave out... the degree to which it's not square reflects the RIAA accuracy and it's a great quick test that it's in the right ballpark.

Marco
14-05-2017, 19:23
yup they are working now.

Yup, same here (now) :)

Marco.

Cityboy
14-05-2017, 20:44
The reason for the post was that I've been reading about the Jez, FB and the nva phono stages and was interested to hear the outcome. The Tron has thrown me into further confusion.
I'm using a fairly hopeless Project box with a 1210 at the moment and really don't want to get on the train of box swapping and the unnecessary expense of it all.
Also, I don't drive, so any chance of a show is pretty much out of the question.
So, if nothing else, can someone point me towards the correct thread on here?
Thanks ��

walpurgis
14-05-2017, 20:58
If you don't even know which thread you are referring to, why express an opinion on how the forum is run based on this thread you don't recall?

topoxforddoc
14-05-2017, 21:06
The reason for the post was that I've been reading about the Jez, FB and the nva phono stages and was interested to hear the outcome. The Tron has thrown me into further confusion.


David,
It might help if you could let us know a bit more - available budget, cartridge and the rest of the system. Also future plans. Is this a final upgrade or have you been bitten by the hi-fi bug?

Marco
14-05-2017, 21:29
The reason for the post was that I've been reading about the Jez, FB and the nva phono stages and was interested to hear the outcome. The Tron has thrown me into further confusion.
I'm using a fairly hopeless Project box with a 1210 at the moment and really don't want to get on the train of box swapping and the unnecessary expense of it all.
Also, I don't drive, so any chance of a show is pretty much out of the question.
So, if nothing else, can someone point me towards the correct thread on here?
Thanks ��

David,

Your remarks, dragging previous arguments here from a (now locked) thread elsewhere have been removed, which are both telling and unacceptable. Telling, because it indicates that you have an agenda against how this forum is run (perhaps also those who own or manage it) and thus *appear* to be here as an irritant, and unacceptable, because the thread was locked for good reason.

As a newbie, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for now, for you to prove otherwise, rather than simply ban you outright. A word of advice: if you wish to remain here, then stay out of forum politics that has absolutely nothing to do with you, and concentrate *solely* on posting about hi-fi and music. The latter is the only acceptable reason for your presence.

Now with that in mind, we'll help as much as we can with any genuine query you have in respect of phono stages, but it's with the understanding that no further reference whatsoever is made to the closed thread in question. Your failure to comply with that request will result in me not giving you the luxury of the benefit of that doubt.

I trust I've made myself clear? Ok, let's talk about phono stages! :)

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
14-05-2017, 21:32
The reason for the post was that I've been reading about the Jez, FB and the nva phono stages and was interested to hear the outcome. The Tron has thrown me into further confusion.
I'm using a fairly hopeless Project box with a 1210 at the moment and really don't want to get on the train of box swapping and the unnecessary expense of it all.
Also, I don't drive, so any chance of a show is pretty much out of the question.
So, if nothing else, can someone point me towards the correct thread on here?
Thanks ��

wtf?