Record Treatments, Pro and Con

[alphaGT]

Gentlemen, I've been doing some reading, again, on several of the well known record treatments. Namely LAST, and Groove Glide. Maybe this subject has been visited before, but I was wondering if any of you have any experience with these or any other record treatments?

When I was just a teenager, mid 70's, I bought some Groove Glide. Just a sample really. Enough for a dozen records or so. I applied it to a dozen of my favorite records, and thought maybe it lowered some background noise, but it wasn't enough to really write home about. So, I never bought it again. But! Some 35 years later I realized that those 12 records had lasted better, preserved much of their sound quality over the years over records of the same age that I did not treat.

Now, I've got a record cleaning machine. And after a few good washes, I'm not sure that any of my old records actually have any wear? They were just dirty. Perhaps they are worn? But removing the dirt has improved their sound so much that I only think they show no wear? It's impossible to compare them to how they sounded 35 years ago. But it makes me wonder if the use of LAST or Groove Glide would be of any use with an RCM?


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[struth]

I wouldn't think so. Might make it worse long term. keep them clean and make sure the am and cart are set up right and wear should be minimal. Ive stuff that's from 50's and 60's that has been played a lot and it still sounds as good as ever.

[alphaGT]

I wouldn't think so. Might make it worse long term. keep them clean and make sure the am and cart are set up right and wear should be minimal. Ive stuff that's from 50's and 60's that has been played a lot and it still sounds as good as ever.

I read an article many years ago, can't remember by who, but it was saying that old record players with ceramic cartridges and VTF's of 5 grams or more, were tough on vinyl, but ever since the latest designs in needle tech, with new diamond cut profiles and stylus pressures of less than 2 grams, record wear is non existent. I'd be inclined to believe this. I've got old records I thought were badly worn, but after a few good scrubbings they sound like new again! Maybe not as perfect as day one, but pretty good. Perhaps some dust particles are still imbedded in the groove walls? And therefore deformed the groove wall? But it is true that it sounds pretty amazing after such a good cleaning. And new records that I own will never be that bad as I keep them clean from day one.

I've also read an article long ago from someone who used that LAST compound, and said it had an audible effect on the record. As it made the top layer harder. And made it brighter, transients sharper. This could be a bad thing on some recordings? Albeit I'm sure it was small. What bothers me is the LAST instructions claim that it is good for 200 plays. Why? What changes after that time? If the records aren't actually wearing, why should it's effect wear off? Or are they just trying to sell more fluid? I can't imagine how long it would take to play a single record 200 times anyway. I'm with you, I do think that the RCM does away with any need for such products. I was really hoping to hear from someone with some first hand experience, but apparently these treatments aren't that popular.


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[magiccarpetride]

I read an article many years ago, can't remember by who, but it was saying that old record players with ceramic cartridges and VTF's of 5 grams or more, were tough on vinyl, but ever since the latest designs in needle tech, with new diamond cut profiles and stylus pressures of less than 2 grams, record wear is non existent. I'd be inclined to believe this. I've got old records I thought were badly worn, but after a few good scrubbings they sound like new again! Maybe not as perfect as day one, but pretty good. Perhaps some dust particles are still imbedded in the groove walls? And therefore deformed the groove wall? But it is true that it sounds pretty amazing after such a good cleaning. And new records that I own will never be that bad as I keep them clean from day one.

I've also read an article long ago from someone who used that LAST compound, and said it had an audible effect on the record. As it made the top layer harder. And made it brighter, transients sharper. This could be a bad thing on some recordings? Albeit I'm sure it was small. What bothers me is the LAST instructions claim that it is good for 200 plays. Why? What changes after that time? If the records aren't actually wearing, why should it's effect wear off? Or are they just trying to sell more fluid? I can't imagine how long it would take to play a single record 200 times anyway. I'm with you, I do think that the RCM does away with any need for such products. I was really hoping to hear from someone with some first hand experience, but apparently these treatments aren't that popular.


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My dealer was trying to convince me to shell out $70 for LAST. I did a bit of snooping around and read that some are noticing how LAST rolls off some high frequencies. But then others chime in claiming how what gets rolled off are high end distortions, which you notice missing after the treatment and conclude that the highs are gone.

Now you come with the opposite claim -- that it adds top end hardness. Very hard now to decide whether to part with 70 bucks or not...

[Audio Al]

I only treat my LPs to a thorough wash when first purchased with the Right Stuff cleaning fluid , Then a quick was as and when using my PRC3 machine

Nothing else :nono:

[The Black Adder]

Shame you can no longer get 'The right stuff' any more though.. :(

[Audio Al]

Shame you can no longer get 'The right stuff' any more though.. :(

Have you PM'd Paul Stewart re this ?
I know he had big problems in the past with a major flood

[Stratmangler]

I only treat my LPs to a thorough wash when first purchased with the Right Stuff cleaning fluid

Who makes that then?

[struth]

being distributed via another company now. might be mcru or whatever they are called.

[Audio Al]

I contacted Paul and he has confirmed that it will be available soon vis MCRU

[alphaGT]

My dealer was trying to convince me to shell out $70 for LAST. I did a bit of snooping around and read that some are noticing how LAST rolls off some high frequencies. But then others chime in claiming how what gets rolled off are high end distortions, which you notice missing after the treatment and conclude that the highs are gone.

Now you come with the opposite claim -- that it adds top end hardness. Very hard now to decide whether to part with 70 bucks or not...

Perhaps the top end hardness is not quite as high as the roll off? It does seem to me that making the surface harder or softer would have some effect on playback. Groove Glide was supposed to act as a lubricant, and reduce static, while not leaving residue, I don't see how that is possible either. If it absorbs into the vinyl, it could have negative effects that are irreversible. Good or bad, it must have some effect?


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[Simon_LDT]

I contacted Paul and he has confirmed that it will be available soon vis MCRU

Great news! :)

I'm on the last drops of mine... :eek: