The Mike New Technics Bearing

[The Grand Wazoo]

Now the job's done, I thought it best to remove the poor guy's email address now, eh?
I think the Nigerian Royal Family are quite busy at the moment, we wouldn't want to overwork them by giving them another victim.

[Mike_New]

I am confused, are you saying that the email address is a scam or that John is trying it on??

[The Grand Wazoo]

No, I don't think the owner of the email address will thank us for displaying his address in public for all to see and use should they so wish to do, for whatever reason.

[Mike_New]

Actually he also included his Tel No: which I have tried three times but it only has a recorded message, very strange. If it is a genuine enquiry I hope he does not think I am ignoring him.
On the subject of Bearing stocks, I now only have 5 available for immediate delivery.
Then there will be some delay before I can get together enough deposits to support the machining of another batch of 25. The constant increase of material and labour costs
may require me to increase the cost by a few dollars for the next lot.

[kininigin]

Hi mike,how many bearings do you have left? I may have to sell mine as i'm stuck in the alpes and running out of money.

I will not be back till may sometime,so if you have none left and it's going to take a long time to machine some more,it may have a bearing (no pun intended) on whether i sell mine or not!

Cheers.

[Mike_New]

Hi There,
Which alps are you stuck on???!
I have just 3 Bearings available from the last batch, which indicates that it would seem that the take up has somewhat reduced compared with the halicon days when I could not supply enough of them.
Please will someone buy my Bearing, I'm getting hungary,

[Mike_New]

I have just recently recieved two orders for my Bearing, one from Russia and another from Finland. which leaves only one left. First come first served as they say!!
So now the decision has to be made; are there enough people interested to place deposits for a further batch of 25.
They will will A$550.00 for the first 20

[kininigin]

Think i'll hang on to mine then!! Food's overrated anyway :lol:

[Mike_New]

You can live on red wine, they tell me it is better for your health.

[Mike_New]

Well folks, the last Bearing was sold today.
That makes about 125 bearings in total
So if there are any more interested SL1200 devotees keen to experience the best that the SL1200 can produce, then you will need to decide what to do. As I have not had a great deal of interest from anyone for the production of another batch of 25.
I guess the vast enthusiasm demonstrated over the past three years has now somewhat sadly died down.

[DSJR]

Mike, there's still much uncertainty here in the UK right now, with jobs more "on the line" than ever, squeezes in spending ability etc and a generally depressed vibe. Don't despair just yet :)

[Mike_New]

Hi Dave,
I guess you are very correct when you mention the economic state of the UK. However at least 75% of my bearings have gone to people outside the UK many into the baltic countries and Russia would you believe! the remainder to Europe Asia and the US who have been real enthusiasts.

[Marco]

Well folks, the last Bearing was sold today.
That makes about 125 bearings in total
So if there are any more interested SL1200 devotees keen to experience the best that the SL1200 can produce, then you will need to decide what to do. As I have not had a great deal of interest from anyone for the production of another batch of 25.
I guess the vast enthusiasm demonstrated over the past three years has now somewhat sadly died down.

Hi Mike,

My advice is to try and get someone in one of the major magazines to review a modded Techy, fitted with one of your bearings, not necessarily the printed versions, but perhaps something like TNT Audio or one of the other well-known on-line magazines, which have a strong presence in the US and further afield.

There's a limit to how many bearings you'll sell by word of mouth on forums. Selling 125 of them that way is rather good going! :)

However, if you want to take things to the next level, you'll need to promote yourself proactively, and become known in much wider circles. It boils down to how much effort YOU want to put into selling your bearings (realistically you can't expect any more sales to simply fall on your lap), or if you're quite happy now to have made a bit of pocket money from the sales you've had here and just put it to bed.

Personally, I'd vote for the former option and would do everything I could to help :cool:

Marco.

[Ammonite Audio]

Hi Dave,
I guess you are very correct when you mention the economic state of the UK. However at least 75% of my bearings have gone to people outside the UK many into the baltic countries and Russia would you believe! the remainder to Europe Asia and the US who have been real enthusiasts.

That mirrors exactly my experience with selling the Jelco collars.

[Frankyc2003]

However, if you want to take things to the next level, you'll need to promote yourself proactively, and become known in much wider circles. It boils down to how much effort YOU want to put into selling your bearings (realistically you can't expect any more sales to simply fall on your lap)
+1 here.

I agee with Marco.
You are in a VERY niche market so don't despair...
Most Technics users don't care about the quality of their bearings, they DJ and that's it... So your pool of potential customers is already quite small. And your products are not cheap (they are worth every penny I think, so don't get me wrong here). But that price tag can become easily justifiable by the use of clever marketing! In the commercial Audiophile world, there are some insanely expensive products on offer, but they have some crazy packaging, fantastic credentials, full scientific papers to back them up. Audiophiles love a nice gaphic, or table or curves with figures etc... So maybe some work can be done here to create a full press pack for your product.

What can help in your situation, is as very relevantly suggested by Marco is advertising via the web... Not everyone has heard of AOS, not everyone has read all the fantastic reviews your product have had... So web based magazines are definitely the way to go. Have you contacted people behind Stereophile, Absolute Sound, etc... Be prepared to build a 'test' deck, with all your upgrades on, crate it and offer it to reviewers far afield. Get your work, hard effort and manufacturing talent, heard in as many places as possible.
Closer to home, I would try to get in touch with David Price, ex-editor of Hifi World, ex-editor of Hifi Choice, he was one of the early advocate of the Technics as an audiophile deck in the UK, in the national press at least. If he hasn't already heard of your fantastic product, I am sure he will be very interested.

But again as in any business, you need to set some realistic goals and targets. How much income do you want to generate a year from your upgrades, how much time and availability have you got on your hands... How flexible are your suppliers..? When the orders arrive thick and strong, you want to be able to honor those orders as quickly as possible...

All this will seem pretty obvious and common sense, but that's the name of the game... And to look at the optimistic picture here, OZ and NZ have pretty much avoided all recession and economic lag, South East Asia is also very promising market, especially China where young professionals with large disposable incomes become more and more interested in HIFI (proof being the wealth of new products in shows in China.)

Anyway that's my twopence...

To paraphrase Kevin Kostner, If you build it, they will come!

Happy Easter

:cool:

[Mike_New]

Hi Francois and Marco,
I hear what you are saying, however it is the fact that anything to do with the SL1200 sales wise, is to be operating in a very niche market. I have looked at the online magazine site that you mentioned Marco and I could only find a couple of articles on the SL written about 5 years ago. Sure I will contact them and see what they say, thank you.
I don’t think Mr. Price would be interested in talking to me, as he is a close friend of Cawley. I did offer to supply a bearing to him for free at HFW, for use on his testbed SL but got no reply.

As for putting together an evaluation kit, this is possible, but to ship it to all the “reviewers” would be very costly and they all have their own time frames to work in, so the delay for any positive results would be measured in years. Sure I could send out just bearings to all the candidate magazines, but this would also be very costly, resulting in a large upfront capital outlay, which I am not interested in; for instance I would have to make a batch of 25 just to meet this requirement, even if I could determine the best mags to contact.

I think you are correct in assuming there is a still large potential market for the bearings among the large population of audiophiles who have SLs. However I believe that the very real marketing problem is one of language.
For instance I have only sold 2 bearings in China (how many people live there?) So, yes I need to join a Chinese forum and put Chinese on my website. Only one problem!! This also I believe pertains to Europe, in particular Germany, France, Italy, Spain, and others; where I guess they have their own Audio forums. This of course is where agents/distributors become useful, but the downside is that they require margins for their efforts so the price has to be increased, which is not unreasonable.

I have tried to work with some people in Europe who may have the time to be interested in actively participating on a local forum, and to represent my Bearings for a margin on the price. But nothing ever really happened.

The US should be good for a much larger uptake, but again as you say getting into HiFi mags is important. And most of them do not do reviews for free, you have to advertise with them which again is expensive for such a niche market.

In summary, getting out to a wider audience on the internet which has a proactive interest in the SL, is the better path to follow I think. How to do this effectively is the big question.

[Audioman]

Hi Francois and Marco,

The US should be good for a much larger uptake, but again as you say getting into HiFi mags is important. And most of them do not do reviews for free, you have to advertise with them which again is expensive for such a niche market.

In summary, getting out to a wider audience on the internet which has a proactive interest in the SL, is the better path to follow I think. How to do this effectively is the big question.

Have you tried Tone Audio the internet magazine? The owner is on Steve Hoffman forum where there are a lot of Technics owners. In the UK, if DP has blanked you Hi-News is your best bet. You could try making Ken Kessler aware to see if that sparks his interest. Of course Adam (Beobloke) now writes for them and is already aware of your products. Haden Boardman does freelance articles on DIY and classic kit. May be worth talking to - (hb_s) on ebay.

Paul.

[JazzBones]

Hi again Mike, its a question of 'how do I go about increasing my business'? Yes, advertising is very very expensive, I once sold advertising space for IPC Business Press and had a constant battle convincing business, big or small, to give me some of their advertising budget for the year! An ad in a monthly publication lasts for a month and then that ad gets binned so thats out of the question.

I suggested on a different post that you go interactive with your customers by allowing feed back and comment, I think you did respond to this. Yes, China is big but places like Hongkong, Singapore, Phillipines, Japan etc have a large number who speak English very well. Then we have India with 1Bn population with a high proportion of English speakers so China is not your only market place.

Secondly, the HiFi mags do have a section for readers to write in and I have noticed that a few people are informing other readers of their activities in modifying turntables such as Thorens, Garrards etc., its high time for a Techy to get noticed. What I feel is the need for someone who is extremely articulate and has upgraded their 12XX with your products to write a readers letter outlining what has been down, bearing etc. don't forget pictures.
This could be a spark that flames wider interest amongst readers who are totally unaware of you or your products?

Let me leave you with this:

IT PAYS TO ADVERTISE

The cod fish lays 10,000 eggs;
the humble hen lays one!
But the cod fish does not cackle,
to tell you what she's done...
and so we scorn the codfish,
while the humble hen we prize.
Which indicates to you and me,
that it pays to advertise!

..... Earl Mountbatten of Burma

[Mike_New]

Hi Paul and Ron,
Thanks for the ideas I will try some of them.
I noticed today that this thread has attracted nearly 45,000 reads so there must be a lot of people out there who could be interested. Just imagine 40,000 bearings!!! then I could sell them for $250 each.

[UV101]

i'll take one @ $250!!!!!! only 39,999 needed now!

[Mike_New]

.

Secondly, the HiFi mags do have a section for readers to write in and I have noticed that a few people are informing other readers of their activities in modifying turntables such as Thorens, Garrards etc., its high time for a Techy to get noticed. What I feel is the need for someone who is extremely articulate and has upgraded their 12XX with your products to write a readers letter outlining what has been down, bearing etc. don't forget pictures.This could be a spark that flames wider interest amongst readers who are totally unaware of you or your products?

Let me leave you with this:



The problem is I can hardly do it myself
How about it Ron for a good bottle of Red??

I guess the fundamental problem is that I started this off as the result of my genuine interest in the potential of the SL1200. as a single individual with a good grounding in precision machining.
I do not design or produce any other product (power supplies, amps etc)
that could co-support the marketing efforts. It is the sole awareness of my SL1200 upgrades aforded me on this forum that has generated the interest that it has. For this I am grateful to Marco's indulgence.

[Mike_New]

i'll take one @ $250!!!!!! only 39,999 needed now!

Hi Ian,
You are quick off the mark; Tell you what, how about 100 for $249.00

[Mike_New]

Hi Folks
Well I suppose it has got to the time when I should formally ask if there are any more people out there who would like to subscribe to a prepayment for another batch of 25 Bearings.
The price will be A$525.00 for the first 20. Thereafter A$625.00
I will accept A$260.00 as the deposit to secure one at the discount price.
When I have got the deposits in then I will place the order on my toolmakers for the precision spindles as I did last time, which seemd to work well.

[Audio Al]

Hi Mike

If people pay a deposit , how long a time period to start production and until the bearing will be ready for posting ?

Thanks

[Mike_New]

After my request to commence making them, it takes about 3-4 weeks for delivery to people. The deciding factor is how long it takes to get the required 20 deposits. This took about 6 weeks last time.

[Audio Al]

After my request to commence making them, it takes about 3-4 weeks for delivery to people. The deciding factor is how long it takes to get the required 20 deposits.


OK thanks

[Macca]

Hi Mike

Just a suggestion but there are a lot of idiots in the world who, like me, buy their kit pretty much solely on specification and measured performance. There does not appear to be any technical comparison on your site between your bearing and the stock item. Perhaps some comparison tests showing improved wow and flutter figures etc might attract custom from the more technical and/or cynical Technics afficianados?

[kininigin]

Hi Mike,

What is the weight of your bearings? I need to post one and need to work out the cost.

Also has there been any deposits laid down for you discounted bearings offer? I will want to buy one again as soon as possible,when i get back to the uk.

[Mike_New]

Hi kininigin
The weight of the bearing is 500Gm, I have had a number of enquiries for
deposits but have not so far had any payments.

[kininigin]

Thanks Mike.Looks like i could be waiting awhile till i get my hands on one again :(

I need to get a pre/phonostage back first anyway! Hopefully some people will start laying down deposits in the meantime!

[Audio Al]

Mike , not sure if you are aware but your web site says you have 14 bearings in stock ?

[Mike_New]

Hi Allen,
THanks for advice, I have been trying to establish contact with the guy who built my website and who seems to still be hosting it. But he does not respond, which is rather a problem as I would like to make a number of changes, I believe he is a member of AoS so if he reads this he may call me.

[drrd]

Hi Mike. Not sure if this has been asked before but have you considered making a version of your bearing with a removable spindle top? Or maybe an under sized spindle top with the option to slide a normal sized collar onto it? I already have one of your bearings but I'd be interested in getting another with this feature, pitch stablity on the Technics is excellent and records respond really well to being perfectly centred.

[Mike_New]

Hi Russell,
I am not sure what you mean by collar, are you refering to the old 45rpm adapter? in which case all you need to do is to open up the hole with a small file or drill. The tollerances on the the holes are relatively wide.

[MartinT]

I think Russell means the same removable spindle idea as used by Roksan. You would have the spindle in place, place a record on the platter and then remove the spindle to prevent contact with the record. The alternative use is to be able to centre records with offset holes.

[Mike_New]

Why would you want to prevent contact with the record?

[MartinT]

It was a Roksan idea, isolating the record from the deck.

[chelsea]

I have that on my redbeard bearing.
Wondered why the sleeve came off,thought it was just for looks.

[drrd]

Yes similar to what Roksan do. I'd like to be able to correct offset holes in records without having to ream a bigger hole.

[Mike_New]

I cannot see how removing the spindle isolates the record from the deck, after all the platter spins on the bearing which is connected to the deck surely.
If you do have a badly centred hole and I have had some, what I suggest as a positive cure it to make the hole larger, then make up a pad to glue to the top of the record which has a nice fitting hole.
Now accurately centre the record by spinning the platter, place the pad over the spindle and push down tightly.
This could be something that Shuggie could make for people.

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Francois and Marco,
I hear what you are saying, however it is the fact that anything to do with the SL1200 sales wise, is to be operating in a very niche market. I have looked at the online magazine site that you mentioned Marco and I could only find a couple of articles on the SL written about 5 years ago. Sure I will contact them and see what they say, thank you.
I don’t think Mr. Price would be interested in talking to me, as he is a close friend of Cawley. I did offer to supply a bearing to him for free at HFW, for use on his testbed SL but got no reply.

As for putting together an evaluation kit, this is possible, but to ship it to all the “reviewers” would be very costly and they all have their own time frames to work in, so the delay for any positive results would be measured in years. Sure I could send out just bearings to all the candidate magazines, but this would also be very costly, resulting in a large upfront capital outlay, which I am not interested in; for instance I would have to make a batch of 25 just to meet this requirement, even if I could determine the best mags to contact.

I think you are correct in assuming there is a still large potential market for the bearings among the large population of audiophiles who have SLs. However I believe that the very real marketing problem is one of language.
For instance I have only sold 2 bearings in China (how many people live there?) So, yes I need to join a Chinese forum and put Chinese on my website. Only one problem!! This also I believe pertains to Europe, in particular Germany, France, Italy, Spain, and others; where I guess they have their own Audio forums. This of course is where agents/distributors become useful, but the downside is that they require margins for their efforts so the price has to be increased, which is not unreasonable.

I have tried to work with some people in Europe who may have the time to be interested in actively participating on a local forum, and to represent my Bearings for a margin on the price. But nothing ever really happened.

The US should be good for a much larger uptake, but again as you say getting into HiFi mags is important. And most of them do not do reviews for free, you have to advertise with them which again is expensive for such a niche market.

In summary, getting out to a wider audience on the internet which has a proactive interest in the SL, is the better path to follow I think. How to do this effectively is the big question.

Hi Mike

I am about to do a Technics feature review and your bearing is included + hopefully a couple of Funk items platter, tonearm (talked with Arthur today again to arrange this but he is off to Munich soon) I had intended on starting next week but alas with Funk not onboard - yet - I am holding off till early June but after that I am going ahead regardless as others are waiting (very patiently I might ad) for their Technics related items to be reviewed.


After my Dad died Nov last year I stopped writing reviews for awhile and everything was shelved but I am nearly back on track now, so champing at the bit to do this article/series of articles.

I am not sure re logistics in including any of your other items in the review (though I am planning on including one of your metal platters, albeit its an early one) as my online mag is a no advertising zone, therefore no incoming revenue so paying shipping costs and vat/import duty is a no go for me, part of the terms and conditions of Adventures in High Fidelity Audio reviews - http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/ which sadly means some reviews have never got off the ground as the logistics go against it happening.





Regards Neil

[Nigel]

Apologies for the slight diversion.

Mike, I was wondering if you use a record clamp or weight with your bearing?

Cheers,

Nigel

[Mike_New]

High Nigel,
Yes I do use a weight about about 1Kg

[drrd]

If you do have a badly centred hole and I have had some, what I suggest as a positive cure it to make the hole larger, then make up a pad to glue to the top of the record which has a nice fitting hole.
Now accurately centre the record by spinning the platter, place the pad over the spindle and push down tightly.
This could be something that Shuggie could make for people.

Yes this is true, if there was an option of an under sized spindle I could do that without having to perform surgery on my records. My record collection is worth far more than my turntable, I'd rather change the spindle than drill out the records. I might see if can get the spindle taken down in height a bit, with a few mats on I could set it up so the record just clears the spindle top and have the option to take mats off if I want to centre the record.

[MartinT]

A small conical hand reamer is all you need, not a drill. You only need a tiny bit of opening out, and can then draw a dot on the label at the point where the hole should be against the spindle.

It's the record at fault, makes sense to fix the problem at source.

[indus]

Hi Mike

What is the current situation with the bearing? Are you only going to make the next batch once you have sufficient deposit numbers? In which case I presume this will be quite some time away given what you have said recently about current demand.

Thanks.

[Mike_New]

High Dave,
My hope was to get enough people to commit to a bearing by placing a deposit before I place an order with my suppliers with full up front payment. Unfortunately the current interest in the SL has slowed somewhat and I do not want to finish up with many bearings in stock for to long.

[indus]

Thanks Mike. So basically that means we are at least a few months away from any possibility of having them?

[Mike_New]

Dave,
The sooner people place their deposits the faster you will get your bearing. It worked last time and everyone seemd to be happy with the short time delay.

[Mike_New]

Hi folks, long time since I last posted here.
I have only got a hand full of deposits so far, so it would seem that the Bearing party is over.
I will miss it!!!

[RochaCullen]

Hi Mike,

What is the price of a new bearing including delivery?

Regards,

Nathan

[Audio Al]

it would seem that the Bearing party is over.

NOooooooo :eek:

[Mike_New]

Hi Nathan,
The offer is $525.00 for the first 20 people who place a deposit of $260.00 after that the price is $625.00 as it has been for the last 3 years, I have absorbed price increases in my toolmakers charges so far. But the main problem is that people do not want to wait six months before getting their bearing.

[MartinT]

Mike, is it not worth manufacturing 20 pieces at the 15 unit point and keeping 5 in stock? Surely they will sell over time?

[kininigin]

NOooooooo :eek:

Can i just add,NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! :eek:

I was afraid this may happen when i sold my bearing! Leaves me with a bit of a dielema.What do i do with my technics now? Having heard what the bearing can do,i'm not sure it will be easy to live without it.Guess i'll have to be happy with what i have.

Is this a definite game over job,or is there any other options? How many more deposits do you need to carry on the next batch?

[RobbieGong]

Can i just add,NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! :eek:

I was afraid this may happen when i sold my bearing! Leaves me with a bit of a dielema.What do i do with my technics now? Having heard what the bearing can do,i'm not sure it will be easy to live without it.Guess i'll have to be happy with what i have.

Is this a definite game over job,or is there any other options? How many more deposits do you need to carry on the next batch?

Hi Darren, Why did you sell your bearing in the first place ? I know these things can happen when funds are tight.... I've always assumed when a Techie owners Mike New bearing has come up for sale here it's because he's decided to abort the Techie journey. To answer your question - In my experience the Techie can be lived with without the bearing but once you've gone there you wouldn't want to go back. In conjunction with an external power supply, upgrade arm and platter it is a must, seriously ! There are other much cheaper options but they tend to be built around the very light and built to a price point stock bearing. If the stock bearing is a mini then the Mike New is a battle ship in comparison, believe you me and sonically helps push the Techie to sounding more 'right; big time !

[kininigin]

Hi Darren, Why did you sell your bearing in the first place ? I know these things can happen when funds are tight.... I've always assumed when a Techie owners Mike New bearing has come up for sale here it's because he's decided to abort the Techie journey. To answer your question - In my experience the Techie can be lived with without the bearing but once you've gone there you wouldn't want to go back. In conjunction with an external power supply, upgrade arm and platter it is a must, seriously ! There are other much cheaper options but they tend to be built around the very light and built to a price point stock bearing. If the stock bearing is a mini then the Mike New is a battle ship in comparison, believe you me and sonically helps push the Techie to sounding more 'right; big time !

Alright Robbie,

Well i have just spent the last 6 months in france snowboarding and started to run out of money towards the end,so had to sell a couple of items to see me through :( The decision to sell wasn't taken lightly and i held off as long as possible,but things conspired against me! I have a snowboarding passion,as well as a hifi/music passion and unfortunately for me i don't earn enough to do both comfortably.

When i had the bearing,all that was left was a platter to get and i would of been pretty much done for the time being.Work had dried up for a few weeks for me before i went away,so i had to sell my Croft pre,MNB,Timestep psu and a pair of Mark Grant G2000hd's.I could live with selling everything as i knew i could still get the items as and when i could afford them,but knew that the MNB wouldn't be so easy!! I'm aware of the cheaper options but have no experience of them,so cannot really comment on their ability's.

I may be off to france again at the end of the year anyway,so wouldn't be wanting to get my previous items back just atm,but if the chance to get another MNB came up,i would definitely go for it,even if it meant selling something else to get it.Although i don't have much left to sell :lol:

To be fair,i was without a good quality system while i was away and since i have been back,have been enjoying listening to what's left of my system! (digital listening only) I'm hoping when i get my deck up and running again,i have a similiar experience!

[Mike_New]

Hi Folks,
To answer Martins question:
"Mike, is it not worth manufacturing 20 pieces at the 15 unit point and keeping 5 in stock? Surely they will sell over time? "
The simplke reason is that the precision of the machining is such that my toolmakers will only produce a minimum of 25 off and I have to pay the monies up front. If I could order a batch of 50-100 I could sell for about $450.00 but I need not expalin what this would cost as a commercial investment. I was hoping that there would still be 20 folks out there that would want one, somewhere in the world!
Then I would only be exposed to having 5 in stock to supply for future orders. However the steam seems to has gone out of the SL1200 so I cannot take the risk of not getting at least most of my costs back.

[MartinT]

That's disappointing but completely understandable, Mike.

[MikeMusic]

Mike

How well known are you in other forums and other countries ?
Have you looked at improving your website and SEO ?

[Marco]

Exactly, as has been said before, Mike needs to join some other forums and promote his bearings to Techie users there and be more proactive in advertising his products. Although AoS is seen by many as the 'home' of the Techy, there are still plenty of other places where people use modded Techies, and where he would get some business.

In the UK, Mike should, at the very least, join Pink Fish Media, and in the States, he should be a member of AudioCircle and AudioKarma (amongst others). It's at the stage now for Mike that if he wants it (more business), he needs to chase it, as (I'm sorry, Mike) the days of business just falling into his lap, from AoS, are over.... :)

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Hi Mike,
I am probably as well known for my bearings and platters as anyone could expect, considering that it is a very botique market.
My Bearings are distributed practically all over the world from Moscow to Montreal and the Asian countries.
This forum is probably the most well known for it's contribution to the SL1200 cause.

[MikeMusic]

We often used to have so much print work we could barely handle it.
90% of our work being recommendation and people moving to new companies, pharmaceutical companies being most of that.
Recently there was a big change to new drug submission work where most of it swapped to CD. This is not good news for a printer !

I'm looking at beefing up our web presence as well as other ideas to get people to find us easier for our speciality. We are very much in a niche

You cannot rely on AoS for 90% of your work - even though it is the best place to be !

Look at SEO for your website.
Make it,
horror of horrors :)
more sales oriented, or even just put down words to appeal to punters who want to make their deck sound better
Just trying to help
:D

[Mike_New]

Hi Mike,
I hear what you are saying, but what maybe you should know is that a large number of sales have come from people outside of AoS (in Greater Europe the States and Asia), members of other forums as Marco has sugested; many of whom have subsequently joined AoS for further advice. A proportion have also come directly from my website. Sales have steeply declined for another person who supplies upgrades for the SL. The economy does not help at this time either.

[MikeMusic]

You can imagine printing has been hit harder than most as so much goes electronic.
I'm looking at improving our exposure with SEO. I think it will work.
Trying to work out the words and phrases prospective customers search for is an interesting job.
Should pull a few more people into your web site if you can work out what that is

[MartinT]

We do that all the time, Mike, it's a constant battle keeping our website above our competitor's in the Google rankings. Alternative Text for each photo helps a great deal, but you can't beat new and amended pages if you want the search engines to see daily activity.

[MikeMusic]

We do that all the time, Mike, it's a constant battle keeping our website above our competitor's in the Google rankings. Alternative Text for each photo helps a great deal, but you can't beat new and amended pages if you want the search engines to see daily activity.
Do you do that yourself or use an SEO specialist ?
Is there a simple "how to do SEO" somewhere ?

[Frankyc2003]

but you can't beat new and amended pages if you want the search engines to see daily activity.

Indeed.
Mike, your webpage still says you have 14 bearings 'in stock for immediate dispatch'!
I know why you are doing it from a salesman's point of view. You don't want to show an empty shop. It does make sense.
But on the other hand prospective buyers will be disappointed to realise there is no bearing in stock, and that there won't be for a while...
It is a 'Catch 22' situation. But honestly, why don't you update your page as suggested above... you might even ask people for deposit directly on your webpage and you might get the needed cash for manufacturing the bearings again.
On the subject of updating, why not creating a 'Customers Feedback' section on your site. I am sure all of us lucky owners of a bearing will be happy to chip in with a nice line or 2...

anyway, these are just suggestions...

On the subject of SEO, this is an interesting read
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jayson-demers/the-top-seo-trends-of-2013_b_3403393.html

Cheers

[MartinT]

No we don't use SEO specialists as most of them are taking money for doing the bleeding obvious.

No simple 'how to do' as far as I know, but lots of opinions on the web as with anything.
It's really about content and new material.

[Mike_New]

Indeed.
Mike, your webpage still says you have 14 bearings 'in stock for immediate dispatch'!
I know why you are doing it from a salesman's point of view. You don't want to show an empty shop. It does make sense.
... you might even ask people for deposit directly on your webpage and you might get the needed cash for manufacturing the bearings again.
On the subject of updating, why not creating a 'Customers Feedback' section on your site. I am sure all of us lucky owners of a bearing will be happy to chip in with a nice line or 2...

anyway, these are just suggestions...

On the subject of SEO, this is an interesting read
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jayson-demers/the-top-seo-trends-of-2013_b_3403393.html

Cheers

Hi Francois,
You may find this to be unbelievable, but I have not left my website with 14 bearings to attract sales.
The simple reason is that I cannot contact the person who put the web site together and is presumedly still hosting it!!!!!!
I have repetedly sent him emails but he does not respeond. He took responsibillity for any editing I required. The deal was that I would provide him with one of my ETP platters at a good price if his web site design brought in sales for me.
People have indeed complemented me on the design but at this time I cannot make any changes.
To be honest this situation is becoming a problem for me.
Maybe you can help me Martin? the site is hosted in the UK, but who controls the host equipment?

[MartinT]

Do you own and pay for the website, Mike?
If so, I would contact the hosting company as a matter of urgency and ask them to reset the password so that you can gain access. Hopefully you have the master e-mail address so that they can send you a verification link.

It's a lesson for everyone (as I've known a few people get into similar trouble): never trust someone else with the keys to your website without your having note of the details. It can and does do businesses a lot of harm.

[MikeMusic]

On the subject of SEO, this is an interesting read
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jayson-demers/the-top-seo-trends-of-2013_b_3403393.html

Cheers

Thanks Francois

[MikeMusic]

No we don't use SEO specialists as most of them are taking money for doing the bleeding obvious.

No simple 'how to do' as far as I know, but lots of opinions on the web as with anything.
It's really about content and new material.
Thanks Martin
Would appreciate your thoughts on a quick visit to our website if I can be so bold
Mostly because the obvious sometimes needs explaining to thick people like me
:)

[MikeMusic]

The simple reason is that I cannot contact the person who put the web site together and is presumedly still hosting it!!!!!!

Move heaven and Earth to get access to your own site as soon as you can, or sooner !

[Mike_New]

Do you own and pay for the website, Mike?
If so, I would contact the hosting company as a matter of urgency and ask them to reset the password so that you can gain access. Hopefully you have the master e-mail address so that they can send you a verification link.

It's a lesson for everyone (as I've known a few people get into similar trouble): never trust someone else with the keys to your website without your having note of the details. It can and does do businesses a lot of harm.

Thank you for your help Martin,
The guy who offered to put the site together was, as far as I can tell a single individual. If I stated his name publicallyI guess I would be sensored. he was/is a follower of AoS and thats how he contacted me, I think he has one of my bearings.
I have not paid any fees for the site. We agreed that I would do a deal on a platter if the site registered a defined amount of sales.
He insisted that he had the best ability to design the web site for me. I believe he works/did work, for a TV group.
I do not have any master e-mail address for a verification link.
I can only guess that the web site is being hosted by some large group, and that it has gone un-noticed on their system.
In his defence, I can only assume that he has fallen very sick and cannot respond to my e-mails.
as he does not stand to gain any defacto advantage by not contacting me.

[Frankyc2003]

Really sorry to hear that your host is unreachable,
I really hope you will be able to access your site in the shortest delays to get back in business asap.
Best of luck

[Mike_New]

Thanks Francois,
However the only real problem I have is that the web site still says I have 14 bearings in stock, which of course is not true!

[Marco]

The guy who offered to put the site together was, as far as I can tell a single individual. If I stated his name publicallyI guess I would be sensored. he was/is a follower of AoS and thats how he contacted me, I think he has one of my bearings.


Hi Mike,

We don't practice censorship here, so if you wish to name the person, then go ahead. In fact, doing so me be useful, as if he is known by some of our members, they may have a contact number where you can reach him.

Needless to say, if there's anything we can do to help you regain control of your website, we certainly will :)

Marco.

[kininigin]

Just a thought,since most of the Technics have been sold to dj's and people who listen to the music mainly played on them,maybe it would be an idea letting that group know about the benefits of your bearing?

How you go about this and whether it would be worth it,i've no idea.I would love to see the return of the Techincs 1200,modded and taking back it's rightful place in the dj scene,leaving a trail of un-used CDJ's in it's wake! :lol:

[Mike_New]

Hi Mike,

We don't practice censorship here, so if you wish to name the person, then go ahead. In fact, doing so me be useful, as if he is known by some of our members, they may have a contact number where you can reach him.

Needless to say, if there's anything we can do to help you regain control of your website, we certainly will :)

Marco.

Hi Marco,
You have a point here.
The fellow's name is Richard Quaite, and he was very helpful and quick to respond when he was working with me, and I think you will agree that he did a pretty good job at putting my web site together, very clean and easy to read and understand. I believe he lives in the midlands somewhere.

[Marco]

No worries, Mike. You may also wish to read my post #44 here, on the subject of selling more bearings:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?25903-My-first-Technics-SL1200-MK2&p=454463#post454463

I think it's something that you should give serious consideration to. Dave's a good guy to work with (with excellent contacts and a huge customer base) and nothing like Cawley!

Marco.

[Cobra2]

Paid for a bearing....and hope more will do soon!

Arne K

[Marco]

Well done, Arne - trust me, you won't regret it! :clap:

Marco.

[Cobra2]

It is such an easy choice... :)
Look at other tt's upgrade-parts: for Rega / Gyrodec / Garrard / ... all start with the central part; the bearing.
(even that a modified/upgrade-bearing for a Rega is cheaper...it will always be a belt-drive :ner: )

Now...if someone would make a good bearing-upgrade for my Yamaha PX-2.... :rolleyes:

Arne K

[Mike_New]

Hi Folks,
Although I have until now only concentrated on the bearing design for the SL1200, there is no reason why my dessign approach and precision machining cannot be applied to other bearings for other TTs.
It only requires a sample of the bearing or for someone to decide what TT should be investigated for an upgrade Bearing.
For instance is there any reason why the LP12 TT could not be improved by the use of one of my Bearings???
In fact any belt drive TT will improve with a good bearing as the bearing shaft is continually subjected to a side thrust as a result of the tension on the belt.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Well then!
That's a good idea, hats off to the folks who came up with it....(ahem)

[Canetoad]

Subtle Chris. I like it! :)

[MCRU]

Hello all,
Myself and Mike have formed a partnership now for me to act as his authorized bearing re-seller for the UK and Europe. In the interests of openness we have discussed the rest of the world as I have customers globally so if anyone wants a bearing from say Brazil I will supply it via my website with UK tax deducted. I will be holding stocks here in the UK so there will be no waiting once my stocks have arrived and I won't run out, there will be no import duty or tax to pay either which can be a shock for some people who have never purchased anything from outside the EU before.

The price I will be selling the bearing for is £445.00 inc VAT. I have placed an order for 20 bearings with Mike and expect to have them in 3 weeks time approx. I will also be selling Mikes platter for the Techy as it looks very similar to the one I was developing myself but do not have enough spare time to bring it to market.

The Mike New Technics Bearing (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/analogue-lp-s/662-mike-new-technics-sl1200-bearing.html) really needs no introduction as it is considered one of the "must have" up-grades for the Technics SL series of turntables. You can place your order via my website here (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/analogue-lp-s/662-mike-new-technics-sl1200-bearing.html), I will also place the details in the trade section shortly. Hope mods are OK with me announcing this here.

[Audio Al]

GREAT NEWS


Well done that will keep lots of people happy :D

How much will you be selling the platters for ?

[Marco]

Excellent news, David, and well done. No problem in making the initial announcement here, as this is where the subject was being discussed. Creating a dedicated thread in the trade area, however, is the right thing to do.

I wish the best of luck to you both on your new partnership. The modified Techy must be allowed to live on, and I'm pleased to have played my small part in making this happen! :)

Here's to the future and many more SL-1200s and 1210s being modified with Mike's superb bearings!! :cool:

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Hi Folks,
So now you can order you shiny new MN bearing direct from David and get it in a matter of days with no extra costs associated with duties or taxes. Essentially Dave has put his cash up front together with myself to fund the initial production cost of the next batch of 25 Bearings in the interests of all SL1200 devotees. So support Dave and place your orders ASAP.

[MartinT]

Well done, both. Keeping that bearing available keeps the modded Techie alive :)

[MikeMusic]

Good news David

Hope you run out of the first batch soon !
:)

[MCRU]

Well it's take a while but they are in the UK now, I have paid duty and import taxes so the bearings will be with me tomorrow.

[MCRU]

It took me about 10 minutes to fit the new bearing to one of my own techies which had a vantage audio modded bearing in, my god all that has been spouted about Mike's bearing is true. Where does that extra bass come from? Colins speakers do bass very well indeed but it's now cavernous. Worth every penny even if I did get it at trade price! I have to say buy Daft Punks new LP if you have not already done so, its stupendously good on a top flight deck.

Here is mine before I started the transformation!

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/Turntable%20Pics/b3f7a285.jpg

[Mike_New]

Hi Folks,
I was reflecting this afternoon over a good wine, on a few numbers.
Since this thread was generated in January 2010 there have been over 54,000 visits.
I have no idea how many of these would be re-visits perhaps Marco would know. But assuming say 90%, then this would mean that there have been over 5,000 visits by different people who have an interest in the ol SL1200, or maybe some of those are just looking.
Of these 5,000 people only 250 have been lucky enough to experience what the Bearing can actually do for the SL1200
interesting eh, what are all the others doing?

[MartinT]

We've said it many times before, but the Mike New bearing takes a very good base design deck and turns it into something very special; no reworked Technics bearing is going to compete with this. To hold one of Mike's bearings in your hand is to feel true workmanship (see his avatar) and to turn it is to experience true zero play and very tight tolerances. Once you've installed it, you'll never look back. Combine it with one of the best direct drive motors ever created and you'll understand why some of us are passionate about the Technics experience.

[prestonchipfryer]

Martin is spot on. Those of you thinking of modding a 12++ need the Mike New bearing as a definite.

[Audio Al]

Maybe we need a exclusive " Mike New " club :eyebrows:

That way we can keep out all the " Non club members "


Cough Tarzan Cough :lol:

[Tarzan]

Maybe we need a exclusive " Mike New " club :eyebrows:

That way we can keep out all the " Non club members "


Cough Tarzan Cough :lol:


There are so many comebacks here- however if l did AOS forum could possibly crash.


Oh l also recommend Beecham's Powder there Mr Allen.


Mr Brook has been working on a top secret project for me which has just come to fruition............ DSD.

[Audio Al]

Mr Brook has been working on a top secret project for me which has just come to fruition............ DSD.

Humm :scratch:

What is it What is it ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????:)

[Cobra2]

My friends T-1210MkII, with the new bearing,
& test-drive. (with extenal PSU).

Arne K
(do I need to say I'm envious?)

[Qwin]

M.N. - "what are all the others doing? "

I don't think there any doubts about the benefits of Mikes bearing, in the end I think it just comes down to cost v core market.

Most people would be looking at the bearing as part of a number of upgrades including PSU/Platter/Arm. If you don't do this your not going to reap the benefits anyway. If you take all of these elements to the same high standard, you end up with a bill measured well into four figures.

Many Techie owners are not into that level of expenditure and other potential owners would spend that kind of total outlay on a different deck in the first place. So there is allways going to be a high level of curiosity that does not develop into sales.

For the owners on smaller budgets and with this deck and its initial cost, I would suggest that is the majority, they go the way of DIY or less effective but more affordable off the shelf soloutions.

To put it into perspective, I have two SL-1200 mk2's bought at different times for less than £150 a piece.

My pre-owned Sugden amp cost less than Mikes bearing, my pre-owned Tannoy Cheviots cost less than the bearing. etc.

It's a combination of factors, demographics, in that many of the people in the position to spend these sums would buy something like a Nottingham Analogue and would not want to tinker, many would look down on the humble Techie as a DJ deck anyway. There are the few that have the foresight to realize what a great piece of kit it really is, but may not want to, or feel confident/have skills to do any of the mods. then there are the, I would suggest majority that just can't afford or justify the total outlay for the ultimate upgrade path. There are also those that would rather spend the money on vinyl.

The remainder that have the combination of forsight/skills/wonga grab the bearing with both hands and don't let go. ;)

Just my ramblings on the subject. :D

[MartinT]

Most people would be looking at the bearing as part of a number of upgrades including PSU/Platter/Arm.

I agree. However, think of the MN bearing as the 'unlocker' of vast potential. Without it, the other upgrades will give you only partial success.

[prestonchipfryer]

Mr Brook has been working on a top secret project for me which has just come to fruition............ DSD.

New platter? :scratch:

[CageyH]

I am planning to get a Mike New bearing hopefully in 2014.
This year has been the cartridge, feet, mat and PSU.

I can't afford to drop all the cash at once on the Techie, and I am happily enjoying the upgrades one at a time as part of the upgrade path.

[Tarzan]

New platter? :scratch:



What l can tell you it is good, very good, that is all l can say at this moment in time.:cool:

[Wakefield Turntables]

I am planning to get a Mike New bearing hopefully in 2014.
This year has been the cartridge, feet, mat and PSU.

I can't afford to drop all the cash at once on the Techie, and I am happily enjoying the upgrades one at a time as part of the upgrade path.

I think that's the best way forward just enjoy what you've got and then upgrad when you feel the urge..

[Tarzan]

New platter? :scratch:


Cold:)

[Mike_New]

Gee!
I did not imagine that my post reflecting on the number of visits to this thread, versus actual Bearing users; would have attracted the number of comments it has. However I would have thought that even given Ken's very thoughtful evaluation of the reasons, there would have been many more users than there actually are.

[Macca]

Of these 5,000 people only 250 have been lucky enough to experience what the Bearing can actually do for the SL1200
interesting eh, what are all the others doing?

Hi Mike

I use a 1200 and could happily afford your bearing but I have asked previously for some comparison measurements between a 1200 with the stock bearing and one with your bearing installed but got no response. I'm not suggesting that your bearing is not superior engineering, I would just like to see that demonstrated with something other than a subjective review. As I suggested then this might well lead to more sales being made. Now Dave MCRU is the vendor perhaps he might sort something out?

[Clive197]

Hi Mike

I use a 1200 and could happily afford your bearing but I have asked previously for some comparison measurements between a 1200 with the stock bearing and one with your bearing installed but got no response. I'm not suggesting that your bearing is not superior engineering, I would just like to see that demonstrated with something other than a subjective review. As I suggested then this might well lead to more sales being made. Now Dave MCRU is the vendor perhaps he might sort something out?

+1

[Cobra2]

Subjective:
Hard to see the difference between a Toyota and a Mercedes?
Having had a "bunch" of SP-10MkII, I rather prefer this (1210MkII & bearing).

Arne K

[Cobra2]

My Yesteryears collection: (3,5 x SP-10 + SP-15)

Arne K

[MikeMusic]

Hi Mike

I use a 1200 and could happily afford your bearing but I have asked previously for some comparison measurements between a 1200 with the stock bearing and one with your bearing installed but got no response. I'm not suggesting that your bearing is not superior engineering, I would just like to see that demonstrated with something other than a subjective review. As I suggested then this might well lead to more sales being made. Now Dave MCRU is the vendor perhaps he might sort something out?

Here's a thought.
I know David at MCRU has too much time on his hands :)
How about he sets up a base, totally ordinary Tech, one with a MN bearing only and then a fully modded one

[Qwin]

The problem with any comparison I.E. two identical set ups apart from the bearing............

Is that the results depend on the listeners perception which may differ from yours.

To set up actual measurements is inpractical because of the time and effort required and the huge amount of very expensive equipment.
Could you even define the test criterion that should be adopted?

You can rely on the basic material properties as a comparison and the differences in machining accuracy but would that mean much to anyone other than an engineer? And how do you translate that into acoustic properties?

I'm afraid its not a very straight forward thing to prove to someone else.

The ONLY way you are going to get a none subjective opinion is to hear identical set ups yourself and make your own mind up.

As a rule of thumb you could compare the number of positive owner remarks compared with negative but it won't take long for someone to point out that those that have allready spent money on the product are less likely to critisise it, so you can't win. :)

[Clive197]

Of the four million Techie's sold since the early seventies only approx 250 have the Mike New bearing.

I totally agree with the statement about positive owner remarks, and along with the many issues about subjective testing means that there can be no winners to the discussion.

I for one will decide to buy the bearing or not based on the availability of spare funds to experiment with. I found it very useful to be able to see and handle the bearing at the recent Whittlebury show, finding it beautifully engineered and in a different league to the stock item.

[Audio Al]

I found it very useful to be able to see and handle the bearing at the recent Whittlebury show, finding it beautifully engineered and in a different league to the stock item.


I fondled it as we'll :eyebrows:
The bearing that is :D

[Clive197]

I found it very useful to be able to see and handle the bearing at the recent Whittlebury show, finding it beautifully engineered and in a different league to the stock item.


I fondled it as we'll :eyebrows:
The bearing that is :D

Ooh! You are naughty.

[Mike_New]

I found it very useful to be able to see and handle the bearing at the recent Whittlebury show, finding it beautifully engineered and in a different league to the stock item.


I fondled it as we'll :eyebrows:
The bearing that is :D

Rather than fondle the Bearing, why don't you put both hands around it and grab one for yourself!!!!!

[MartinT]

:lol:

[Audio Al]

Rather than fondle the Bearing, why don't you put both hands around it and grab one for yourself!!!!!


I already have one ;)

[Tarzan]

I already have one ;)



That has has not been played in anger.......




























































:ner:

[Mike_New]

I am sorry Audio, I don't how to put this but I didn't know you had one.

[Audio Al]

I am sorry Audio, I don't how to put this but I didn't know you had one.

Oh yes I have one , purchased in a TT from a forum member on AOS along with other upgrades ;)

[Audio Al]

That has has not been played in anger.......




























































:ner:


As someone said to me " Patience my dear fellow.. patience ";)

[Tarzan]

As someone said to me " Patience my dear fellow.. patience ";)


l would be of service and run your MN bearing in for you in for you Al, as indeed l am running in your Croft- that sounds very nice............:):cool:

[worrasf]

Delighted with my MN bearing having had both stock and Vantage bearings in the past - decided not to get a MN bearing plate purely because I don't want the platter raised up as I like the look of it in the original position - however, a small but audible improvement is to be had by using KAB support wax - care needed to ensure the MN bearing is fully seated in the bearing well so judicious use of a hair dryer on the wax - only takes about 20 minutes to do but rewarded by tighter bass and timing.
Steve

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[MartinT]

Interesting, Stephen. I've never heard of KAB support wax.

[worrasf]

Hi Martin.
www.kabusa.com and go to their Technics page - the support wax was hugely beneficial to the stock bearing so thought I'd try it with the MN. The MN is deeper than the stock and the 3 bolt heads are just above the base of the bearing well so need to really make sure the wax does not cause it to rise up or be uneven - it provides a solid and uniform support for the bearing housing for a couple of quid which does firm up the bottom end
Steve

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[MartinT]

I may just try that if I contemplate opening her up again, despite having the base plate installed.

[worrasf]

Martin - can I ask what the base plate did in terms of SQ? I was tempted to get one but Mike said it raises the bearing and hence the platter by 3 mm and as I'm using the VA platter and really don't want it raised up for aesthetic reasons I didn't get one. The KAB wax definitely makes the bass taughter - fast and complex percussion and flamenco has better timing and attack
Steve

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[MartinT]

It did pretty much the same as you claim for the wax: tightened up the bass. The height is a non-issue with Mike's ETP platter.

[worrasf]

Interesting - that's what I reckoned it would do. Yes I can see from piccies of the MN platter how it sits but I do like my copper plated VA platter - I think I'd have to demo one before punting that much dollar as I'm not sure I can wring much more out of the Technics
Steve

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[Wakefield Turntables]

You cant "demo" one as you need to make quite significant modifications to your plinth. It's a "suck it and see" modifcation.

[MartinT]

Yes, it's definitely not for the faint-hearted and requires complete dismantling and accurate drilling of the chassis. If you bond it, too, there is no way back.

[Andrei]

I have the Mike New bearing and it has not worked for me. This is contrary to most reports, so I am still working out why this could be. I will post again when I have some conclusions.

[worrasf]

Ah ha! Hadn't appreciated that. Does the same apply to the Funk platter? I seem to remember a thread mentioning that the Funk platter didn't fit on the MN bearing

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[MartinT]

I have the Mike New bearing and it has not worked for me. This is contrary to most reports, so I am still working out why this could be. I will post again when I have some conclusions.

Do you mean physically, or it hasn't yielded improvements for you?

[MartinT]

Ah ha! Hadn't appreciated that. Does the same apply to the Funk platter? I seem to remember a thread mentioning that the Funk platter didn't fit on the MN bearing

No, that was only a prototype of the Mk. II platter.

[worrasf]

Thanks for the clarification Martin

[Andrei]

Do you mean physically, or it hasn't yielded improvements for you?

It has yielded no improvements. Installation went fine by following the instructions from Mike New and supplemented on Hi-Fi Pig (A forum member I think and a big thanks to him!). I've checked my installation and the bearing is sitting correctly. My provisional conclusion is that this is due to my existing bearing having serviced and/or being relatively new. It is still early(ish) days so I am going to give it more 'run-in' time. I can also check to see how long it spins by itself by switching the TT off and counting the revolutions it takes to stop. I am then going to re-install my original bearing and do the same test and also some listening.

[Mike_New]

Concerning the mounting of my Bearing.
Those of you who have fitted it (or have removed the old bearing for whatever purpose) may have noticed that there are 3 raised areas around the three screw holes. For improved total contact with the much larger flange of my Bearing, these raised ares can be removed and the whole mounting area made level with a flat file.
I have never mentioned this before (except in the case of fitting my Bearing Base Plate) because I was concerned that this action may cause the bearing to be too low and cause the outer edge of the platter to rub on the chassis.
However I believe that maybe I was too cautious, I will include the advice in the Installation Instructions if you believe it is the right thing to do.
Also having done this you can experiment with using a thin washer of material between the flange and the chassis which may produce interesting results.

[Mike_New]

Andrei,
I would suspect that you have other issues with your SL1200 which are masking the improvement, that my bearing obviously offers. (based on the reports of nearly 200 users). Have you checked the mounting of your arm for looseness? or even the verasity of your electronics?

[Andrei]

Andrei,
I would suspect that you have other issues with your SL1200 which are masking the improvement, that my bearing obviously offers. (based on the reports of nearly 200 users). Have you checked the mounting of your arm for looseness? or even the verasity of your electronics?
It is producing good results both before and after the bearing. It is just that I have heard no improvement. As mentioned I will re-install the old bearing and see how that goes. I'm going away for xmas so wont be doing anything major till then.

[worrasf]

Concerning the mounting of my Bearing.
Those of you who have fitted it (or have removed the old bearing for whatever purpose) may have noticed that there are 3 raised areas around the three screw holes. For improved total contact with the much larger flange of my Bearing, these raised ares can be removed and the whole mounting area made level with a flat file.
I have never mentioned this before (except in the case of fitting my Bearing Base Plate) because I was concerned that this action may cause the bearing to be too low and cause the outer edge of the platter to rub on the chassis.
However I believe that maybe I was too cautious, I will include the advice in the Installation Instructions if you believe it is the right thing to do.
Also having done this you can experiment with using a thin washer of material between the flange and the chassis which may produce interesting results.

Hi Mike
I hesitate to teach my grandmother etc etc but I'm not sure about this suggestion. I know for a fact that with your bearing fitted and with those 3 lugs still untouched the heads of the 3 thrust plate bolts are only a hairs breadth from the base of the bearing well. I know this because I tried using a silicone putty to seat the bearing in and on removing the cast the bolt heads had pierced the silicone but there was about a 1mm layer in the centre of the thrust plate. I'm now using KAB wax instead which is easier to mould and ensure the bearing is fully home. So I think removing the lugs will just result in the bearing being supported on the 3 bolt heads.

Steve

[Mike_New]

Hi Stephen,
Yea I cannot dissagree with you, you probably have one of the chassis with a slightly shallower well depth than the one I used as the guide when I decided on the bearing depth. which gave a clearance of about 3-4mm. One always has to allow for the 'worst case' situation.

[JazzBones]

HI Stephen/Worrasf,

When I first replaced the stock bearing with the MN I just did a straight swap out. I preferred this to the stock bearing, the deck itself was brand virginal new. Must mention here that I was still using the stock platter with copper mat at the time, subsequently replaced by the MN Ali/Cu bonded platter still in use today :). At a later date I bought and installed the MN bearing base plate which Mike N had provided an additional three mounting holes so that the base plate could FIRST be bolted to the flange of the MN bearing and then this assembly secured to the chassis by five bolts as used by MartinT and Cable Maker on here I believe. After this had been accomplished the three new threaded screws (from MN) bolted both the bearing and B/plate down in the usual manner. MartinT had super Araldited his bearing assembly but as far as I am aware did not use the additional MN base plate to bearing flange bolts x 3 that I have used and mentioned herein. I completed this fixture by not using Araldite (if you go this adhesive route it is a permanent fixture as MartinT has outlined) but by using a breakable automotive gasket paste twix mating flanges of base plate and chassis pan this would allow me to disassemble the fixture if required. The KAB wax has interested me but will require the assembly I have achieved to be taken apart again... Herself would not welcome the idea of the dining room table been taken over again... she will never accept the fact that the said dining room table also doubles as my work bench!

Merry Xmas and 2014 everyone :D

PLEASE NOTE CAREFULLY!!! adding a MN bearing base plate requires accurate skill with drill and soft metal drill bits (MN instructs on these) and there is practically zilch leeway if you/anybody effs/stuffs this up!!! Skill/knowledge plus steady nerve is a requirement to do this fixture successfully but it has been done and I've probably over played this?

With all of MN's goodies and an recently final upgrade of outboard PSU I've come to journey's end with my 1210 and just sit back enjoy and marvel.

Somewhere on this forum CableMaker outlined his bearing plate assemble pictorially and our venerable Marco did so for me. Me and photobucket do notlike one another?

[worrasf]

Thanks for that Ron. I'm pretty comfy with drilling to tight tolerances but have decided to let the base plate pass me by. While I will never know for sure I reckon the added support and stability provided by the KAB wax is likely to be giving me a fair proportion of the benefits to be gained with a MN base plate - the improvement in bass articulation with the KAB wax was readily noticeable. I probably will go down the road of changing my Vantage Audio platter when funds permit but I really am undecided as to whether this will be the Funk or MN but I'm leaning towards the former which I understand has the more neutral presentation of the 2.

Steve

[MartinT]

MartinT had super Araldited his bearing assembly

Only the base plate is bonded to the chassis, the bearing itself is free to be removed!


I really am undecided as to whether this will be the Funk or MN but I'm leaning towards the former which I understand has the more neutral presentation of the 2.

Having compared them, I don't think I agree with this. The Funk has a mild upper-mid recess which the ETP does not have, making the latter the more neutral of the two, and certainly more detailed in the very important voice range.

[JazzBones]

Only the base plate is bonded to the chassis, the bearing itself is free to be removed!



Having compared them, I don't think I agree with this. The Funk has a mild upper-mid recess which the ETP does not have, making the latter the more neutral of the two, and certainly more detailed in the very important voice range.

Sorry Martin, my verbage possibly gave the wrong idea of what you did. " ONLY your MN base plate, and that alone, has been Araldited to the Tech chassis pan", I should have made this clear and hope I do so now folks. NOTE: DO NOT ARALDITE OR ADHESIVE YOUR MN BEARING WHAT SO EVER. You need this to be readily removable if so required!

If I get the opportunity in 2014 I shall get David/MCRU to loan me a MN ETP platter and compare the two in my system using the music I listen to and see if I draw the same conclusions as you bearing in mind the ancient audio saying, 'different mods for different bods'. As mentioned elsewhere I gave up using an Achromat with MN copper/ali in favour of a joint application of Oyaide BR dished rubber mat with Origin Live platter mat on top this held together with photographic double sided adhesive pads this was arrived at after numerous and abortive mat swaps and juggling. The beauty of the Techy is that there is nothing written in tablets of stone and you can approach the project your own way via experiment and learning from those who have gone before such as your goodself. By the way the HFN mag for Jan'2014 auditions the direct drive German STST Motus 2 turntable page 28 reviewers are Steve Harris and Paul Miller if anyone is interested?

Mike New uses his copper/ali platter with a dished rubber mat and also listens to modern jazz like me so I guess there is fellowship in this respect.

[CableMaker1]

HI Stephen/Worrasf,

When I first replaced the stock bearing with the MN I just did a straight swap out. I preferred this to the stock bearing, the deck itself was brand virginal new. Must mention here that I was still using the stock platter with copper mat at the time, subsequently replaced by the MN Ali/Cu bonded platter still in use today :). At a later date I bought and installed the MN bearing base plate which Mike N had provided an additional three mounting holes so that the base plate could FIRST be bolted to the flange of the MN bearing and then this assembly secured to the chassis by five bolts as used by MartinT and Cable Maker on here I believe. After this had been accomplished the three new threaded screws (from MN) bolted both the bearing and B/plate down in the usual manner. MartinT had super Araldited his bearing assembly but as far as I am aware did not use the additional MN base plate to bearing flange bolts x 3 that I have used and mentioned herein. I completed this fixture by not using Araldite (if you go this adhesive route it is a permanent fixture as MartinT has outlined) but by using a breakable automotive gasket paste twix mating flanges of base plate and chassis pan this would allow me to disassemble the fixture if required. The KAB wax has interested me but will require the assembly I have achieved to be taken apart again... Herself would not welcome the idea of the dining room table been taken over again... she will never accept the fact that the said dining room table also doubles as my work bench!

Merry Xmas and 2014 everyone :D

PLEASE NOTE CAREFULLY!!! adding a MN bearing base plate requires accurate skill with drill and soft metal drill bits (MN instructs on these) and there is practically zilch leeway if you/anybody effs/stuffs this up!!! Skill/knowledge plus steady nerve is a requirement to do this fixture successfully but it has been done and I've probably over played this?

With all of MN's goodies and an recently final upgrade of outboard PSU I've come to journey's end with my 1210 and just sit back enjoy and marvel.

Somewhere on this forum CableMaker outlined his bearing plate assemble pictorially and our venerable Marco did so for me. Me and photobucket do notlike one another?


My detailed outline used to be a sticky until the site went through some reorganization by separating everything SL-1200 to the Techiepedia. Its been a couple of years since I was last active on this forum, so the one that I can say sticks out from no longer being a sticky with 100% certainty is my sticky. I believe the rewiring of internal to external PSU is also no longer a sticky, however I believe they should be reinstated as a sticky.

I will say this with certainty when I outlined my detailed approach to adding the MN Bearing Baseplate:

1. TAKE YOUR TIME!!! Any job that is worthy of doing will always need time devoted to that particular task for a job well done. Most forum members already know this, but it is always helpful to stress this point out, especially to new hobbyists.

2. REMOVE THE RUBBER BEFORE DRILLING!!! Don't take this shortcut by leaving it on!!! You will drill right through the surface into the cavity, and if you leave the rubber on, you will EASLY pierce through it before you know it.

3. Make certain you have a steady hand when drilling (if you have manual tools like me), AND that you drill onto an even surface. I used a garbage can made of plastic to hold the turntable up onto something when I did the project to both turntables. I don't recommend doing this on the floor since the turntable may not even steady, and that you may drill right into your floor once you clear the cavity.


I did not bond the bearing or the baseplate to the turntable. I did however shave down the extrusion of the cylinders that holds the screws to house the MN Bearing. I believe shaving down the extrusions to an even surface of the TT base allows the bearing base plate to be married to the base of the TT more securely than leaving the extrusions as is. I leave that to each individual on how they would like to handle that recommendation.

CM1

[Mike_New]

Folks,
I developed the Bearing Base Plate because this is the ultimate way to ensure that the Bearing is positively connected to the chassis, in either the bolted form or using epoxy. By ensuring that the small posts around the 3 screw holes are leveled off and using a good "Gasket Goo" (if using bolts); you will have the best possible alternative to having a new design of chassis which has this feature cast into it.
The reason being, is that the Base Plate is of large diameter so it evenly distributes the load across the bottom of the chassis.

I personally do not believe that putting any material at the bottom of the bearing "Well" does anything to improve matters, as you are then tending to concentrate any energy at the bottom of the "Well" over a small area.
Secondly and much more importantly the bottom of the "Well" being of thin section could be caused to act as a drum, at the higher frequencies, being "pumped" by the bottom of the Bearing if the two components are forced into contact as would be the case using wax or any other material. I would certainly not do it to my own TT.

If you really wish the ultimate installation for the Bearing then use the Base Plate and epoxy to connect it to the chassis.

If you do decide to dispose of the TT at a later time then the bearing can be swapped for the OEM unit and all you forego is the Base Plate for a few dollars.
Even if you are still using the OEM platter the additional 6mm of height does not cause the edge of the platter to rise above the surface of the chassis.
And if at a later stage you decide to update to an ETP platter then I can machine it with a 3mm lip to enhance the appearnace still further.

[CageyH]

2014 has started off well for me with a nice Audio Origami RB251, and now a Mike New Bearing, which has just turned up.
I've gone through the instructions, and it seems easy enough.
Time to get it fitted, and then run in.

[Tarzan]

2014 has started off well for me with a nice Audio Origami RB251, and now a Mike New Bearing, which has just turned up.
I've gone through the instructions, and it seems easy enough.
Time to get it fitted, and then run in.

:popcorn:

[MCRU]

2014 has started off well for me with a nice Audio Origami RB251, and now a Mike New Bearing, which has just turned up.
I've gone through the instructions, and it seems easy enough.
Time to get it fitted, and then run in.

:gig:

bang those tunes out dude, 1980's house music, funk and soul suits it best (IMHO of course)

[CageyH]

I have just finished fitting the bearing. The instructions were clear and straightforward.
There were a couple of things I didn't like:
1 - Motor coils exposed when the platter is off (not a problem 99% of the time when the platter is fitted!).
2 - The screws clamping the bearing to the plinth shouldered out when the cap was not there.

So, combining issues 1 and 2, I got my Dremel out, and started hacking away at the protective cover bit by bit to clear the bearing. This didn't leave a lot of material left. so I basically decided I would convert it into a protective cap (without the internal part). If the cap fits, wear it, so I put it back on, and the bearing now clamps down nicely.

How does it sound?
You know it's too early to tell properly, but I am wondering how much better a SME 309, Iv or V would make my deck in my current system, as it's currently sounding pretty good.
I can't wait until the 30 hours are up to start hearing it properly!

[KC Jones]

Alright Kev
Can you hear the extra bass depth? first thing I immediatly heard when i fitted mine. I thought Jeez where's that bass come from?
The 1st LP I always play when trying something different is Low by Mr Bowie. I know the album really well and there is some nice bass and kick drum working together. Low and the MN bearing really compliment each other.

Kev

[chris@panteg]

More bass ? Or more bass depth, this is what worries me about the MN bearing as more bass is the last thing I'm looking for with my techie, slightly leaner with better clarity would be good !

[CageyH]

Oh, the bass was always there, just not very well defined.
It's now so much more defined that to be honest, it does seem to hit lower and harder than before.
I have also noticed that he sound stage is opening up, and everything else has much better clarity and separation.

[chris@panteg]

Oh, the bass was always there, just not very well defined.
It's now so much more defined that to be honest, it does seem to hit lower and harder than before.
I have also noticed that he sound stage is opening up, and everything else has much better clarity and separation.

Ahh, well that sounds more promising.

[Stratmangler]

I already had the bass before fitting my MNB, due in no small part to having dampened the original bearing with an O ring in the bearing well.
I found initially that the MNB brought greater inner detailing to the table, and a greater sense of solidity to the sound.
I heard textural things that I'd never heard before on recordings I know very, very well, and that being both on vinyl and CD (well streamed - I don't have a CD player in the system any more).

Now I was fortunate to have a loan of a GSP Audio Reflex M phono stage throughout most of December and the beginning of this month, and I couldn't believe just how much tight, controlled bass I was getting off the Techie/MNB.
The best compliment I can give is that the equipment just got out of the way of the music, and I spent many, many hours playing vinyl.
I was able to make sense of lyrics that were never quite intelligible before.
I heard subtle rhythmical changes and interplay between parts like never before.
Some of my best records for music were bought 2nd hand and are not in pristine condition, yet these were laid out with all of their glories very much in evidence.
The tracing noise and crackles and pops, although present, just didn't intrude - I was enthralled with the interplay of The Jacques Loussier Trio on a not very good pressing.

The Reflex M has gone back, and I'm seriously missing it.
I've had the best kind of demo that can be had - take it, try it for yourself.
What I think it lets me do is properly hear what my TT can do, and I think that the MNB is a serious part of those listening experiences.
My demo of the MNB was the same - take it, try it for yourself, and the MNB never did get removed from my deck. Many thanks to David Brooke of MCRU for just handing it over at the last meet he organised. It's a very worthwhile upgrade to a Technics SL-12xx deck.

[chris@panteg]

I already had the bass before fitting my MNB, due in no small part to having dampened the original bearing with an O ring in the bearing well.
I found initially that the MNB brought greater inner detailing to the table, and a greater sense of solidity to the sound.
I heard textural things that I'd never heard before on recordings I know very, very well, and that being both on vinyl and CD (well streamed - I don't have a CD player in the system any more).

Now I was fortunate to have a loan of a GSP Audio Reflex M phono stage throughout most of December and the beginning of this month, and I couldn't believe just how much tight, controlled bass I was getting off the Techie/MNB.
The best compliment I can give is that the equipment just got out of the way of the music, and I spent many, many hours playing vinyl.
I was able to make sense of lyrics that were never quite intelligible before.
I heard subtle rhythmical changes and interplay between parts like never before.
Some of my best records for music were bought 2nd hand and are not in pristine condition, yet these were laid out with all of their glories very much in evidence.
The tracing noise and crackles and pops, although present, just didn't intrude - I was enthralled with the interplay of The Jacques Loussier Trio on a not very good pressing.

The Reflex M has gone back, and I'm seriously missing it.
I've had the best kind of demo that can be had - take it, try it for yourself.
What I think it lets me do is properly hear what my TT can do, and I think that the MNB is a serious part of those listening experiences.
My demo of the MNB was the same - take it, try it for yourself, and the MNB never did get removed from my deck. Many thanks to David Brooke of MCRU for just handing it over at the last meet he organised. It's a very worthwhile upgrade to a Technics SL-12xx deck.

Very good Chris !

[CageyH]

Chris,

I totally agree on the Reflex M. I tried one, and it stayed.
There probably are better phono stages around, at a price, but I am a satisfied customer.

[MartinT]

I am wondering how much better a SME 309, Iv or V would make my deck in my current system

Before deciding on an SME, try to hear some other arms - especially the Jelco 750D. I only say that because the SME's very dry presentation doesn't always sound happiest in the Technics. It would also save you a lot of money.

[CageyH]

Thanks Martin.
I am quite happy with my AO RB251, and believe I will have spend quite a lot more to get significant improvements. That was the point I was trying to make.

[belloire]

Having just heard a pals 1210 go from an ao rb250 to an audio note arm2, the jump in sq was huge. But the cost was pretty high too. Worth a look if you like the straight arm thing and want to upgrade though. (I'm trying to convince him my 750d is better, but he's having none of it :-))

[CageyH]

I think the Audio Note Arm 2 is based on a Rega RB251, so I am not sure there will be a big difference between that and my AO RB251?

My next upgrade will be more vinyl, and maybe a platter next year.
The arm will have to wait a while, as at the moment I can't justify spending thousands on a better tonearm.
I am thoroughly enjoying what I have at the moment, so I am in no rush to change.

[belloire]

sorry, i meant the arm 2 mkII. the old audio note arms were based on Regas, the new, mkII, variant are all audio note. captured uni pivot, very nice indeed.

however, i think more vinyl is the real answer :)

[KC Jones]

More bass ? Or more bass depth, this is what worries me about the MN bearing as more bass is the last thing I'm looking for with my techie, slightly leaner with better clarity would be good !

I wouldn't say it sounded leaner, definately more depth, slightly to the front and more pin-pointed (if that's a word). Yes more clarity too. It's hard to hear any particular improvement other than the bass end as that's where it was most prominent, within my system anyway.

I would say the speakers I use are fairly level, so the bearing helped to pick out the bass parts more accurate without adding any extra unwanted Bass.
So ithe bearing seems to be all about bass for me but in a good way.
(hope the next 2 changes I make have similar good effects across the spectrum - SR5 and a Jelco. Bought 18 months ago and sill not fitted!!)

Cheers

[CageyH]

I have now officially become a member on the "Mike New Bearing" club - I've just paid for it. It's staying.
As the bearing is running in, it's just getting better and better. :rock:
I am happy with my purchase, and once again David @ MCRU has provided excellent customer service.
It's nice to find a supplier that trusts you enough to provide you an expensive bearing, on a sale or return basis.

Now, it's time to spin some vinyl.
:partytime:

[MCRU]

I have now officially become a member on the "Mike New Bearing" club - I've just paid for it. It's staying.
As the bearing is running in, it's just getting better and better. :rock:
I am happy with my purchase, and once again David @ MCRU has provided excellent customer service.
It's nice to find a supplier that trusts you enough to provide you an expensive bearing, on a sale or return basis.

Now, it's time to spin some vinyl.
:partytime:

Great news Kevin and I am happy that you are happy.

[Andrei]

Many thanks to David Brooke of MCRU for just handing it over at the last meet he organised. It's a very worthwhile upgrade to a Technics SL-12xx deck.
I think that is very good service, especially when it comes to an item that is expensive. The MNB did nothing for my system, so I wish I had the opportunity to try it out.

[CageyH]

I have seen you make this comment before, and I was surprised to be quite honest.
The immediate thing I noticed was less noise between tracks. Then there was the tighter, deeper bass and improved sound staging. As it runs in, I am now finding that the mid and high ranges are now better defined and more obvious/less muddled.

If the bearing is making no difference, from my experience, then something has to be wrong elsewhere.
My deck is not as highly tuned as others here, but the results I am getting are very pleasing.

I'm just wondering if a wooden armboard for my Rega arm would improve things even more.

[Andrei]

I have seen you make this comment before, and I was surprised
Not as surprised as me!


If the bearing is making no difference, from my experience, then something has to be wrong elsewhere.
Nothing is wrong. In any event that is not a possible conclusion as the MNB was the only variable changed.
I am a bit nonplussed but put it down to the the fact that I already had a good bearing - lightly used TT when I got it. Some of the benefits of the MNB may be simply that it is new and not partially worn.

[KC Jones]

Not as surprised as me!


Nothing is wrong. In any event that is not a possible conclusion as the MNB was the only variable changed.
I am a bit nonplussed but put it down to the the fact that I already had a good bearing - lightly used TT when I got it. Some of the benefits of the MNB may be simply that it is new and not partially worn.

I reckon Andrei, you have magic combination of Jelco, wood SL and speakers, which bring the same to the technics as the bearing on it's own, no bad thing.
Like you say, it's a shame that there isn't more options to try before purchasing, however I think a lot of the Technics upgrades keep a good 2nd hand return value.
Assembling and upgrades are a gamble. In my (shallow) expreience most things seem to work good together, or maybe i'm just lucky and taking a gamble on others greater experience has so far payed off.

When I get round to fitting my jelco, I shall swap back to the old bearing and see what the difference is. It may give me the option to sell one or the other in the future.
Hope you shift the bearing, or already have.
Cheers

[synsei]

I have seen you make this comment before, and I was surprised to be quite honest.
The immediate thing I noticed was less noise between tracks. Then there was the tighter, deeper bass and improved sound staging. As it runs in, I am now finding that the mid and high ranges are now better defined and more obvious/less muddled.

If the bearing is making no difference, from my experience, then something has to be wrong elsewhere.
My deck is not as highly tuned as others here, but the results I am getting are very pleasing.

I'm just wondering if a wooden armboard for my Rega arm would improve things even more.

This is confusing and I would concur with CageyH here Andrei. I say this because when I replaced a newly reconditioned standard bearing with a used Vantage Audio item I noted a significant improvement in performance. I am wondering whether your MNB is faulty in some way, perhaps it would be worth shipping it back to Mike so he can inspect it... ;)

[Andrei]

That would be a problem with the bearing, not something 'elsewhere'. I do not have a definitive conclusion but I am inclined to think there is nothing wrong with the bearing. I don't have the time at the moment but a comparison of some spin-down times may be helpful.

[chris@panteg]

Thanks., it would be good to just hear it myself, but I'm looking at sorting out my rack at the moment.

[MCRU]

The last 4 bearings I sold were all sent out on approval first (being honest I know they won't be returned), its hard to damage
it when fitting so providing it did come back in the same condition as it went out anyone can try it. The improvements to the
sound are obvious from the very first spin of the platter in my experience. Talking of platters, the ETP platter is the icing on the
bearing topped cake!

[prestonchipfryer]

Installing a MN bearing in the SL12XX is by far one of the best upgrades that can be applied. The sound quality improvement is very obvious above the stock bearing. The MN ETP platter is another big leap forward. I have been running the bearing for more than two years and the platter for almost two years (Feb). So I would say that the two together are a must for an effective upgrade and are worth every penny.

John

[Marco]

Never a truer word was spoken! :)

Marco.

[RobbieGong]

Installing a MN bearing in the SL12XX is by far one of the best upgrades that can be applied. The sound quality improvement is very obvious above the stock bearing. The MN ETP platter is another big leap forward. I have been running the bearing for more than two years and the platter for almost two years (Feb). So I would say that the two together are a must for an effective upgrade and are worth every penny.

John

Defo ! - A match made in heaven.

[costerdock]

Defo ! - A match made in heaven.

Say it ain't so....not another upgrade! Perhaps next Christmas

[CageyH]

That is my plan.
Hopefully next years annual bonus will cover that and a cartridge.

[Mike_New]

Hi Folks,
In spite of the fall off in sales of my Bearing, I still get private enquiries from individuals asking for advice on what to buy first for their SL1200. Bearing, Power Supply, New Arm, Platter, expensive alluminium Mat, Cartridge, or whatever??!

I recently got an email from one very keen audio enthusiast in Asia (among others) who I reckon has purchased all of the above options and more. But only now is he considering one of my Bearings, as he does not feel that he has obtained any real improvement!! Except that he must wait some time as he has spent all of his money. All he has done IMO is to spend a lot of money to merely enhance the audio shortcomings evident at the very start of the reproduction chain. The Bearing. And for which no amount of spending on expensive options down the chain will do absolutely nothing to correct.

As an analogy, it is a bit like a car buff fitting a new expensive short-shift close-ratio gearbox, LS Differential, wide mag wheels and expecting that the original side valve engine will make it go any faster; it will not.

The single most important component of the reproduction cycle of the Turn Table has to be the quality of the bearing on which everything is supported and rotates This is even more critical on a belt driven TT as the belt tension imparts a side thrust on the bearing which must cause wear, but it does bias the spindle in one direction possibly damping out any tendency to wobble if the bearing is slightly worn.

Ideally, in the SL1200 there is no side thrust and the bearing can be regarded as being merely there to prevent the platter from tipping over (ignoring the 2 grams of Cartridge loading of course). The spindle and platter, happily spinning on the bottom support.
Now if the bearing is a loose fit in the bearing housing or the housing itself is less that rigid, as is the case with the low cost, fragile OEM unit, then the whole assembly will vibrate or resonate at some frequencies which will distort the sonic quality of reproduction. No amount of additional options such as expensive mats will do anything to ameliorate the situation, and may in fact make it worse.

[Marco]

Hi Mike,

Nice to see you popping in again. Hope you are well :)

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Hi Marco,
Yes I am well, it's just that things have slowed down a bit recently concerning the good old Techie, so I have not had a great deal to talk about. Although people continue to contact me directly, they are always keen to know what my Bearing can do but seldom go any further, if only they new what they are missing out on!!!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Mike we are bored in the uk you need to design some more mods! :eyebrows:

[Marco]

Hi Marco,
Yes I am well, it's just that things have slowed down a bit recently concerning the good old Techie, so I have not had a great deal to talk about. Although people continue to contact me directly, they are always keen to know what my Bearing can do but seldom go any further, if only they new what they are missing out on!!!

Obviously you're preaching to the converted... Anyway, glad to hear that you are well, old chap :)

The problem is that some people don't fully embrace the value of upgrading a component that they cannot see (as buying a new and better T/T bearing doesn't result in obtaining something nice and shiny to look at and admire when a record is playing). Neither do they 'get' the significant influence a fundamentally superior bearing has on music reproduced by a turntable, as you have so eloquently outlined, which is why their money goes instead on what are at that stage 'superfluous fripperies' in comparison, but act nicely as 'shiny new visible things', as highlighted by your tale of the Asian chap.

I shake my head in disbelief when I read sometimes (admittedly only occasionally) from people who've bought your bearing saying that they considered that the improvement over the stock Technics one was only 'subtle', and that the same money would have been 'better spent' elsewhere (you guessed it, on an arm or cartridge, etc). Well a better arm or cartridge won't address the same issues as a better bearing does! :doh:

As for a "subtle improvement"? Not in my system it wasn't......!!

On a turntable, you have to 'max out' first on the components of intrinsic importance that a) ensure that the platter spins consistently at the right speed under load (from the stylus), b) ensure that the ingress of vibration, subsequently resulting in problematic resonance, muddying the signal in the process, has been minimised, and c) that the PSU is capable of delivering consistently clean power to the motor unit during playback, ensuring therefore that a) b) and c) perform their respective tasks seamlessly and to the highest possible sonic and electrical standard.

Then and ONLY *then*, once that has been successfully achieved, and the optimal 'infrastructure' put into place, in order for music to be accurately reproduced, should one turn ones attention to the items that extract the musical information from the record grooves!

Of course, whilst the above are undisputable facts, practicalities raise their ugly head, such as how much one has to spend on a T/T, or where perhaps some other area of the T/T requires more pressing attention, so if you've got a Techy sitting there, whose tonearm has been shagged by a ham-fisted DJ, fitted with an equally knackered Stanton 500AL, then the least of your worries will be the bearing, or if you're simply lightly modifying the turntable and have no intentions of taking things too far....

However, in circumstances where the highest possible performance is sought from the Technics, or the building of a T/T that, once judiciously modified, can compete with the very best, then one must always start at the beginning: and that's from the plinth (by upgrading the poor quality stock feet) and platter (by upgrading the sonically dire stock rubber mat), and forward from there onto the bearing and PSU.

The fact is, only then, once attending to those fundamentally all-important areas, will you be able to hear the full potential of your 'fancy new' tonearm and cartridge!

:exactly:

Marco

P.S Mike, I'm waiting on a bearing base plate from David, as it's the final piece in the jigsaw for me. Does he have the required drawings, in order to get them produced in the UK?

[Audioman]

How about a more cost effective bearing upgrade? Apply some value engineering into reducing size and weight and concentrate on the actual bearing interface. Something that sold for £150 -£200 would have a much bigger market. Most people are put off buying Mike's excellent product as it costs far more than they paid for the SL1200 in the first place. I think 'development cost' would have to go down to labour off love though but maybe a sounder commercial proposition in the long run. BTW I read that future Funk platter mods may be based around a dedicated ruby bearing.

Paul.

[synsei]

How about a more cost effective bearing upgrade? Apply some value engineering into reducing size and weight and concentrate on the actual bearing interface. Something that sold for £150 -£200 would have a much bigger market. Most people are put off buying Mike's excellent product as it costs far more than they paid for the SL1200 in the first place. I think 'development cost' would have to go down to labour off love though but maybe a sounder commercial proposition in the long run. BTW I read that future Funk platter mods may be based around a dedicated ruby bearing.

Paul.

It's not the development costs which are the issue but the quality of materials and very close engineering tolerances required during manufacture, couple that with low volume production runs and you have your answer.

[Audioman]

It's not the development costs which are the issue but the quality of materials and very close engineering tolerances required during manufacture, couple that with low volume production runs and you have your answer.

Those underlined words are the crux of the problem. It has to be a higher volume more cost effective exercise. There is certainly a gap in the market between Timestep modified bearing and current MN product. It needs some research to establish the potential market for such a product, given that the vast majority of Technics owners will be happy with the standard product.

[Mike_New]

"P.S Mike, I'm waiting on a bearing base plate from David, as it's the final piece in the jigsaw for me. Does he have the required drawings, in order to get them produced in the UK? "
Hi Marco,
Dave did ask me for a drawing of the Bearing Base Plate last year and I sent him the PDF.
Then he asked me about six weeks ago and I am pretty sure I sent him another copy.
I will email him to find out the situation. I have not heard from him for some time.

[Marco]

Cheers, Mike. David did say that he would have one ready for me in time for the bake-off he's holding at his place on the 19th of April, see here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31429-The-MCRU-Audio-Fest-Returns&p=534262#post534262

...therefore, I'm just making sure that will be the case :)

Marco.

[MCRU]

19th April, NATIONAL RECORD STORE DAY, RESULT!

what a co-incidence eh!

http://www.recordstoreday.com/

[Mike_New]

It's not the development costs which are the issue but the quality of materials and very close engineering tolerances required during manufacture, couple that with low volume production runs and you have your answer.

I think Dave's comment re above says it all. We have talked about this many times. It just cannot be done with the low volumes.
If Rolex only sold even 200 watches a year they would cost ten times more than they do!!

[CageyH]

Is there a price for the part yet?

[MCRU]

Is there a price for the part yet?

The bearing base plate are a simple piece of metal with holes in, they won't cost much, I have 4 being made.

As regards "The Mike New Precision Technics Bearing" which transforms the Technics into a turntable of the very highest order
I have 3 left in stock, if anyone is thinking about one but maybe the cost is prohibitive please pm for a special offer.

I will be taking the bearings to Brighton at the weekend so visit my room also for a one time only deal (sound like QVC!) :)

[Audio Al]

(sound like QVC!)

Not seen or heard one of those before , nearest I got was a JVC

[ChrisKemp]

Finally I have just ordered a Mike New bearing:)!!! One for me and one to a friend of mine. I ordered directly from Mike, because I have close family in Australia. Thank you Mike for your email explaining why upgrading the bearing is so esential:) Hope to hear even better sound from my 1210mk2.

The 1210mk2 sounds absolutely stunning now, because i'm testing two new tube amplifiers from Line Magnetic: LM218iA and 518iA. 22 watt of kl.A single ended triode with 845 tues:)

[Marco]

Nice one, Chris! :)

Quite simply, anyone who wants to transform the Technics into a genuine world-class turntable *must* fit an MN bearing, if that goal is to become a reality. There is no two ways about it.

Yes, the stock bearing is of decent quality and works perfectly adequately, but it was built to a price, and it shows in the quality of its construction. Mike's bearing, on the other hand, was made with no such constraints, and is engineered to be as good as it possibly can within the limitations of the design of the SL-1200/1210.

Therefore, substituting the stock bearing for an MN one, results in a lowering of the noise-floor, due to reduced vibration and resonance being transferred to the playing surface, and then picked up by the stylus, thus muddying the music in the process. In a quality system, capable of genuine high resolution, the effect should NOT be subtle!!

Anyway, Chris, when you receive yours, and hold it in your hand for the first time and admire its quality, I'm sure you'll appreciate what all the fuss is about, no more so, however, than when you spin your first record with your new acquisition at the helm.... ;)

Marco.

[MCRU]

I had a few bearing base plates made, they arrived today, will finalize the price tomorrow for anyone who wants one

Marco yours is £600 as you never asked the price you just ordered it :lol:

Like they say if you need to ask the price you can't afford it :ner:

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/ADS/IMAG0263_zps946c9a0e.jpg

[Marco]

Marco yours is £600 as you never asked the price you just ordered it :lol:


No problem. I'll just deduct it from the first six month's profit you make from sales through AoS!! ;)

I hope mine has been 'Christened', by Mike, with some bubbly! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[ChrisKemp]

Thank you Marco. As you now, I've been back and forth about upgrading it further or buying another higher priced TT. But after all the pm's and different threads in here, I'm convinced that a fully upgraded 1210mk2 is going to be hard to beat:) It really shines now, with all the upgrades so far. Isonoe feet, MCRus PSU, Achromat 1200 Funk platter, KAB Cardas rewired arm, KAB Fluid Damper, Rek-O-Kut record weight, aux weight for tonearm and the Sumiko headshell. The Ortofon Rondo Red is really really singing with tight bass, beautiful midrange and a very dynamic sound. And the Rondo Red is really just an allround MC cartridge, that gets "only" ok reviews. I wonder what a Rondo Blue or Rondo Bronze would sound like after installing MN bearing:eyebrows: Or maybe a DL-103R, but I'm not sure about the Denon. I like detailed sound, also, and I read that the 103R isn't very detailed?... Zyx R100 Yatra? Goldring Elite? Or maybe move up to Ortofon Cadenza!? I do like the Ortofon sound, but I haven't tried anything else than the Rondo Red and the 2M Bronze. I like toe tapping dynamics and the kind of sound you get from a live show.

Next upgrade will be a new tube amp. But my next Technics upgrade will be a new platter. I like the looks of the Oyaide, but read that the best is the MN ETP...

But I'm glad i decided to keep the 1210 and to upgrade it further. Right now I'm listening to one of my favorite records: Thelma Houston & Pressure Cooker - I've got the Music in me - Sheffield Labs:cool:

[Andrei]

I had a few bearing base plates made, they arrived today, will finalize the price tomorrow for anyone who wants one
Marco yours is £600 as you never asked the price you just ordered it

£600 is ridiculous - £750 minimum I say. I think you have had too much time in the back-streets of Asian cities. If you don't ask what that plate of fruit costs you will get a bill for $100.00.

[Joe]

I'd pay a tenner, tops. AoS is all about SPPV, surely?

[Mike_New]

Does that come with one of my bearings??? or am I doing it wrong!!!

[Marco]

Sorry, Mike, you've lost me... :scratch:

Which "that" are you referring to?

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Sorry, Mike, you've lost me... :scratch:

Which "that" are you referring to?

Marco.

This one by Andrei talking about the Bearing Base Plate: "£600 is ridiculous - £750 minimum I say. I think you have had too much time in the back-streets of Asian cities. If you don't ask what that plate of fruit costs you will get a bill for $100.00."

[CageyH]

I had a few bearing base plates made, they arrived today, will finalize the price tomorrow for anyone who wants one

Marco yours is £600 as you never asked the price you just ordered it :lol:

Like they say if you need to ask the price you can't afford it :ner:

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/ADS/IMAG0263_zps946c9a0e.jpg

Please let me know the price, and I will let you know if I want one or not.

[Mike_New]

Dave,
Remember to make up and supply with each Base Plate the three distance pieces for the PCB mounting points.
I make them from brass rod. The side of the Base Plate that is bonded to the Chassis must be roughened and cleaned with Acetone before applying the resin. see the instructions.

[Marco]

Yes, and make sure that there are full fitting instructions supplied with it, too! :)

That plate looks rather different from Martin T's one - thicker and more substantially built, to my eyes. I also don't remember the originals being made of brass. Would I be correct in assuming that, Mike?

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Hi Marco,
The Plate should be nominally 6mm thick, but this value is not critical as they are made from mild steel.
The Brass distance posts are made from brass.
Martin's and other's Base Plates were originally designed to be bolted to the chassis. Which was an involved process.
The ones which Dave is offering are designed to be bonded to the chasis, which in many ways is a better solution and much easier for non-DIY types to achieve.
However, this is a one-way process as the Base Plate, if it has been properly bonded to the chassis cannot be removed!!

[Marco]

Cheers, Mike. The ones David has had made look like brass. I don't remember the originals being made from brass, were they? Don't get me wrong, I'd rather that they were made of brass, the same as the bearing itself! :)

Which type of glue would you recommend for bonding the base plate to the chassis?

Oh, and does the ETP platter have a sufficiently 'deep lip' now to hide the electronics underneath, as a result of the platter being raised once the base plate has been fitted? I seem to remember an issue existing with that before.

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Hi Marco,
They were never made from brass but steel and David's are also made from steel.
The two-part epoxy used for bonding is High Strength Araldite. much the same as they use to bond the wings on aircraft.
The ETP Platters are designed so that generally when used with the Base Plate the depth of the lip hides the gap between the platter and the chassis. However there is a limit here because the Base Plate does raise the assembly by 6mm or more depending on the thickness of the BBP.

[Marco]

Ok, Mike, thanks for that, and noted.

In terms of the base plate, in David's picture it looks the same colour as the bearing, so I assumed that it was also made from the same material.

No worries :)

Marco.

[Mike_New]

Hi Dave,
Are you there, Marco is correct the Base Plate does look as if it is made from brass or is that just the reflection from the Bearing??

[CageyH]

It looks like steel to me? I think it's just a reflection.
High strength araldite? Like Araldite 2012?
I guess any high strength epoxy will do, but for positioning a quick cure would be better. As if I remember correctly 2012 has a 24hr cure time. CB100 (if you can get it) is just as strong but will cure quicker. It's nasty stuff though, so don't use it near pregnant women.

[Marco]

I think it's just a reflection.


On reflection, I think it is :D

Marco.

[CageyH]

I have reflected on your reflection of the reflection, and I have come to the conclusion that this reflects badly on the thread. On reflection, we should have just asked David. He could have reflected on his post, and taken a picture with less reflection.

[MartinT]

I used standard two-part Araldite and mine is one of the old ones, also bolted to the chassis.

[Mike_New]

Hi Martin,
Did you bolt and bond you base Plate, bloody ell you will never get it off!!!

[Marco]

I have reflected on your reflection of the reflection, and I have come to the conclusion that this reflects badly on the thread. On reflection, we should have just asked David. He could have reflected on his post, and taken a picture with less reflection.

Are you sure about that?

Marco.

[MartinT]

Did you bolt and bond you base Plate, bloody ell you will never get it off!!!

I had no intention of ever getting it off!!

[Spectral Morn]

A question please?

If I recall correctly the base plate was originally introduced to deal with a possible weakness in the bottom of the Technics turntable being asked to support a heavy bearing and a very heavy platter (Mike's original metal platter), the combined weight of both maybe overtaxing the structure of the Technics. So as the original Funk platter is fairly light, and the ETP - I guess - much lighter than the original metal platter, surely this base plate now serves no practical purpose (or the originally thought of purpose) other than maybe being required to raise the platter to help with making the Technics more compatibility with certain tonearms and cart combinations?


Regards Neil

[MartinT]

I think it does serve a purpose in supporting the bearing on a section of chassis that could be prone to flexing. Providing reinforcement at that point is bound to help the stylus trace the groove more accurately. After all, the entire platter/mat/record is being supported by just that area of cast aluminium.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I used standard two-part Araldite and mine is one of the old ones, also bolted to the chassis.

This is exactly what I did with mine and I still use the old al+cu platter, perhaps I should upgrade at some point?

[Marco]

Hi Neil,

Like Martin says, the bearing base plate is simply to add a bit more rigidity to the whole assembly and give the bearing something more substantial to 'bite against'.

It should make a small, but noticeable, difference... It's the final piece in the jigsaw for me, anyway, so it makes sense to make sure that all the boxes are ticked! :)

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

I must be honest and say I have always wondered if this small plate can possibly strengthen the bottom of the deck, surely to do this it should be much bigger, maybe to the point of covering the entire bottom of the turntable. I also feel the fixing method is not precise enough to guarantee the surface the bearing is to be mounted to is level, way too much rests on the skill in spreading glue in an even way and any deviation from true would not be ideal.

I agree that the mounting holes for the original bearing isn't very strong and thus not ideal for anything mounted there, original bearing or Mike's but is the plate the best solution to this problem? I am not convinced it is but a better solution may be too difficult to implement without an entirely new bottom to the turntable and after that we are heading for a Monarch typed solution I feel; ie just use the electronics etc and replace the entire body of the deck.


Regards Neil

[RobbieGong]

I must be honest and say I have always wondered if this small plate can possibly strengthen the bottom of the deck, surely to do this it should be much bigger, maybe to the point of covering the entire bottom of the turntable. I also feel the fixing method is not precise enough to guarantee the surface the bearing is to be mounted to is level, way too much rests on the skill in spreading glue in an even way and any deviation from true would not be ideal.

I agree that the mounting holes for the original bearing isn't very strong and thus not ideal for anything mounted there, original bearing or Mike's but is the plate the best solution to this problem? I am not convinced it is but a better solution may be too difficult to implement without an entirely new bottom to the turntable and after that we are heading for a Monarch typed solution I feel; ie just use the electronics etc and replace the entire body of the deck.


Regards Neil

+1 Had similar thoughts and have never worried about having the base plate, but what do I know.

[Marco]

I must be honest and say I have always wondered if this small plate can possibly strengthen the bottom of the deck, surely to do this it should be much bigger, maybe to the point of covering the entire bottom of the turntable. I also feel the fixing method is not precise enough to guarantee the surface the bearing is to be mounted to is level, way too much rests on the skill in spreading glue in an even way and any deviation from true would not be ideal.

I agree that the mounting holes for the original bearing isn't very strong and thus not ideal for anything mounted there, original bearing or Mike's but is the plate the best solution to this problem? I am not convinced it is but a better solution may be too difficult to implement without an entirely new bottom to the turntable and after that we are heading for a Monarch typed solution I feel; ie just use the electronics etc and replace the entire body of the deck.


Fair points, Neil. However, as I'm sure you'll agree, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, as it were...

In that respect, I'll be able to listen and compare the 'before & after' effects of fitting the base-plate. It will be the only new variable introduced into what I'm otherwise used to hearing from my T/T, so I'll soon know whether or not fitting it has resulted in a positive improvement or otherwise - and the results will be posted here :)

Marco.

[worrasf]

FWIW I also have not been tempted by the base plate as I couldn't get my mind around the "philosophy". I also didn't want my platter raised up 5mm purely from an aesthetic point of view. However, I did notice an audible improvement in bass control after I used the KAB support wax underneath the MN bearing so there must be something in it. It would also seem that there are variations in the depth of the OEM bearing well. Mine is shallow and the bolt heads of the MN base plate virtually bottom out - other wells are deeper with more clearance.
Steve

[chris@panteg]

Steve, do you remember the damping pad on the vantage bearing, its there for a reason!

[CageyH]

Fair points, Neil. However, as I'm sure you'll agree, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, as it were...

In that respect, I'll be able to listen and compare the 'before & after' effects of fitting the base-plate. It will be the only new variable introduced into what I'm otherwise used to hearing from my T/T, so I'll soon know whether or not fitting it has resulted in a positive improvement or otherwise - and the results will be posted here :)

Marco.

And if you don't like it, you'll have one hell of a job taking it off, depending on what glue you use.

[Marco]

:D LOL!

I'm not expecting any issues...

Marco.

[RobbieGong]

Steve, do you remember the damping pad on the vantage bearing, its there for a reason!

That's interesting Chris

[worrasf]

Steve, do you remember the damping pad on the vantage bearing, its there for a reason!

Indeed it is Chris - although now I know that the Technics has variable bearing well depths I wonder whether it truly acts as a thrust plate support in all cases - the KAB wax on the other hand can adapt to varying bearing wells

[Mike_New]

Hi Neil,
Yes we have gone aroung this loop many times I feel in other threads.
The Bearing Base Plate can indeed be larger, I chose the size as being ideal to do the job it is designed to do. It speads the forces over a much wider area.
As for getting the BBP level this is not a problem, any inteligent fellow is not going to pour on a bucket load of epoxy but just enough to cover the surfac area of the BBP. If they follow my Instruction as many people have, they will have no problems .
The only problem is to ensure that when the base Plate is positioned and the bearing attached, that the three PCB corner holes line up when placed onto the bearing.

You observations re. designing and making a whole new chassis are maybe valid, but are you going to pay for one when it is available?
I generated a design about two years ago but few were interested in following it up cost wise.

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Neil,
Yes we have gone aroung this loop many times I feel in other threads.
The Bearing Base Plate can indeed be larger, I chose the size as being ideal to do the job it is designed to do. It speads the forces over a much wider area.
As for getting the BBP level this is not a problem, any inteligent fellow is not going to pour on a bucket load of epoxy but just enough to cover the surfac area of the BBP. If they follow my Instruction as many people have, they will have no problems .
The only problem is to ensure that when the base Plate is positioned and the bearing attached, that the three PCB corner holes line up when placed onto the bearing.

You observations re. designing and making a whole new chassis are maybe valid, but are you going to pay for one when it is available?
I generated a design about two years ago but few were interested in following it up cost wise.

I recall those Mike but my memory is a little hazy re the plate having any other purpose other than those I mentioned, so thank you for the clarification. Certainly the existing mounting arrangement in the Technics is poor and weak even for its own bearing. The engineering is bad (in the examples I have seen so far) as the threaded holes are of very poor quality, in fact with out care one could quite easily damage these and thus not be able to tighten the bearing in place.

I again vaguely recall discussion of replacement chassis/plinth but don't recall a price. If it were reasonable then perhaps I might. I am very impressed re the redesigns and new plinths some of the guys on here are coming up with and building.

I will be interested indeed to read your findings Marco.

Regards Neil

[Marco]

I will be interested indeed to read your findings Marco.


All will be revealed in due course, mate, after I've collected the base-plate at Dave's bake-off: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31429-The-MCRU-Audio-Fest-Returns

I'll be having it fitted to my turntable at Martin T's place soon after that :)

Marco.

[CageyH]

Don't want to get your hands dirty? :lol:
Let me know what you think of it. I'm still not sure of the merits.
I am thinking that a similar affect could be had by fitting the bearing in a bed of PR sealant. Horrible, messy job though!

[Mike_New]

Folks,
Following on from the above.
I have read many posts concerning the pushing of gunk under the bearing well and forcing the bearing onto it. IMO this aproach is completely useles and without merit, in spite of the fact that aknowledged vendors supply the stuff.
If you look at the engineering physics of the situation, we are stuck with a reasonably flimsy well area that we are now going to force downwards by stuffing gunk below the bearing. What we are doing is now forcing this material into the well bottom by screwing down on the three clamping screws.
a) Firtly these three screws are self tappers going into the relatively soft die-cast alluminium chassis, if you are not careful you will strip these threads; as I believe was done by one purchaser of my Bearing Base Plate!!

b) all you are doing is now placing an upwards force onto the bottom of my Bearing against the screws, however the reflected down force is only serving to distort the bottom of the bearing well, which might well (excuse the pun) cause reflections of energy and make things a bloody site worse.

At one stage of my design developement of the Bearing I did consider removing the bottom of the well in order to produce a longer bearing. However, my bright idea of placing the support nitride-ball inside the bearing avoided this although it does increase the cost of machining and polishing the main shaft due to the cavity for the ball.

For those who feel they want the ultimate rigidity for the Bearing support then my Base Plate is the way to go as it spreads the weight of the platter and any very small vibrational forces across over 6 times the area.
Also the bearing now sits onto a flat solid surface, whereas in the OEM version the bearing sits on three protrusions with no contact with the chassis surface. (These protrusions are removed when fitting my Base Plate)

Note: for the purists these protrusions could be removed in the same manner as explained for my Base Plate, however as has been noted in other posts and threads the depth of the bearing well seems to vary acording to the model so be careful.

There really can be no comparison between stuffing gunk into the Bearing well and the implementaion of the Base Plate!!!!

[CageyH]

Unless the gunk stiffens up the well? It depends on the product and the implementation.
I really don't believe that the standard platter will deform the bearing well sufficiently to worry about.
A heavier platter may cause an issue, but you are talking about micro deflections, and probably only when changing records.

[MartinT]

It's less to do with deforming the well, Kevin, and more to do with not flexing under the micro-vibrations caused by the stylus tracing the groove.

[CageyH]

From an engineering point of view, I find it difficult to believe that the base plate will make a difference to the the effect of a microvibration caused by a cartridge tracking at about 2g. If you guys are happy with it, and you can hear a difference then that's the main thing.

[MartinT]

The fact that vibrations will reach the bearing are incontrovertible. The key question is: how much, and what is the effect?

[Andrei]

The fact that vibrations will reach the bearing are incontrovertible. The key question is: how much, and what is the effect?
In my case it would have to go through the record, through the 5mm achromat, and through the damped platter. As a percentage of the vibrations that the bearing produces while turning it is too small to worry about.

[MartinT]

As a percentage of the vibrations that the bearing produces while turning it is too small to worry about.

But how do you know that? Serious question.

[Mike_New]

I frankly do not think that Andei understands what he is talking about.