Joni Mitchell recordings production/sound quality

[magiccarpetride]

I've recently acquired two Joni Mitchell LPs: "Court and Spark" (1974) and "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" (1977). What blew me away on both albums (besides the music and the performances) is the incredible sound quality. It is quite rare that one hears such brilliant, intense and detailed recorded, mixed and mastered sound. My question is: are most of her other albums that well produced, or was it only that back in the 1970s she was able to get the engineers to produce such marvellously sounding records?

[Macca]

No they are all good productions, some of them she did herself btw

[Arkless Electronics]

"Blue" is certainly a very good recording as well as being one of her best albums (the best IMHO)

[magiccarpetride]

No they are all good productions, some of them she did herself btw

Yes, I watched an interview with Joni in which she claims that after David Crosby totally butchered her first album, and after the overbearing producer made her hate music during the recording of her second album, she decided to do it all by herself. She was such a trailblazer!

[struth]

Thought Blue was awful both content and the mastering .... sold it. Might just not have been my cuppa

[Macca]

'Blue' is the best of them IMO. All her stuff is an acquired taste, though.

[magiccarpetride]

'Blue' is the best of them IMO. All her stuff is an acquired taste, though.

Back in the day I really liked her "Mingus". Now I think "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" is brilliant, and not only because of Jaco Pastorius and his mind-blowing bass.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Not forgetting she managed to recruit arguably one of the world's best bass players
for the albums Hejira, Don Jans Reckless Daughter and Mingus, namely Jaco Pastorius
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaco_Pastorius

Joni is a visual artist as well as sound artist. For instance who has spotted that it
is her dressed as a man, also on the front cover of Don Juan's Reckless Daughter ?
As for sound, her guitar playing is totally unique and well worthwhile hearing just for that
aspect.

As for sound quality, I agree where she had control over what was being recorded,
there is consistently good quality. For instance compare, Shine to Don Juans's
Reckless Daughter, despite 30 years between them.

[Barry]

I don't agree regarding Jaco Pastorius - I find his bass playing overbearing, both on 'Mingus' as well as when he played with Weather Report.

To my mind 'Mingus' and 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns' are Joni's weakest recordings.

Her best recordings? Well for the poetry of her lyrics it would be the first three: 'Song to a Seagull', 'Clouds' and 'Ladies of the Canyon', with 'Blue' coming a close second.

[struth]

'Blue' is the best of them IMO. All her stuff is an acquired taste, though.

I might add it was the new reissue i had.

[magiccarpetride]

I don't agree regarding Jaco Pastorius - I find his bass playing overbearing, both on 'Mingus' as well as when he played with Weather Report.

To my mind 'Mingus' and 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns' are Joni's weakest recordings.

Her best recordings? Well for the poetry of her lyrics it would be the first three: 'Song to a Seagull', 'Clouds' and 'Ladies of the Canyon', with 'Blue' coming a close second.

Jacos' bass playing has been bastardized and turned into a caricature by the endless onslaught of the uninspired bass players who were doing the 'monkey see, monkey do' in his wake. As such, I think our ears are tainted by the after-the-fact botched imitation, so when we go back to listen to him, we tend to hear only the caricature.

But I find that if I manage to cleanse my ears of the horrible elevator muzak that the army of soft jazz idiots have enforced upon us, Jaco's playing is brilliantly lyrical, innovative, and frighteningly virtuosic. And it fits so well with Joni's daring avant-garde music.

[magiccarpetride]

Not forgetting she managed to recruit arguably one of the world's best bass players
for the albums Hejira, Don Jans Reckless Daughter and Mingus, namely Jaco Pastorius
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaco_Pastorius

Joni is a visual artist as well as sound artist. For instance who has spotted that it
is her dressed as a man, also on the front cover of Don Juan's Reckless Daughter ?
As for sound, her guitar playing is totally unique and well worthwhile hearing just for that
aspect.

As for sound quality, I agree where she had control over what was being recorded,
there is consistently good quality. For instance compare, Shine to Don Juans's
Reckless Daughter, despite 30 years between them.

Most people claim that Steely Dan holds the bar when it comes to the highest quality 'audiophile' recorded music, but I'd say that "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" destroys albums like "Aja" and such in terms of sound quality. But Joni never received long overdue recognition for her stellar production work.

[Macca]

Most people claim that Steely Dan holds the bar when it comes to the highest quality 'audiophile' recorded music, but I'd say that "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" destroys albums like "Aja".

An odd way to look at it.

[magiccarpetride]

An odd way to look at it.

I'm not looking at it, I'm listening to it. Odd way to listen to it?

[Macca]

I'm not looking at it, I'm listening to it. Odd way to listen to it?

Maybe. Let me ask you this: Do you think that there is, or at least should be, one way of recording and production that is the best and that in an ideal world all music would be recorded and produced in that way?

Or is the method of recording and the style of the production as much a part of the artistic expression as the music itself?

[magiccarpetride]

Maybe. Let me ask you this: Do you think that there is, or at least should be, one way of recording and production that is the best and that in an ideal world all music would be recorded and produced in that way?

Or is the method of recording and the style of the production as much a part of the artistic expression as the music itself?

Good question. I never thought about it. I guess it may boil down to personal preferences. It's almost like asking 'should there be one prescribed best way to boil an egg?' Some people like soft boiled, some like hard boiled. Same goes with other food, like steaks etc.

For me, I fall for raw, visceral recordings/production. I don't enjoy sanitized, sanded off records where everything feels sterile and stillborn. I know people who prefer that, and that's okay with me. But I like it the way I like my sex -- sweaty, steamy, obnoxious, I love those moments where everyone involved loses control. Not for the squeamish.

[Barry]

"obnoxious" sex? :scratch: Oh well - chacun a son goute.

[JimmyJet]

Back in the 70's at Myer Emco (audio store in Washington, D.C. area), "Car On a Hill" was one of the most often demo songs because of the way it opened with that single snare slap and the brass hitting it full force on the next beat, as well as the overdubbed choir in the bridge. I have all her first pressings and a few reissues and would say they're not all as good as the two you first mentioned, but I would highly recommend her live, "Miles of Aisles" album with Tom Scott and the LA Express brass section. It's one of the best live albums I've heard. I quite often use her jazzed up version of "Woodstock" of off that album to demo different timbres for visitors who want to hear my rig. As well, I use that track to adjust phono stage gain/load settings with different carts because of the cymbal splashes section was well bass drum thud. Enjoy!!!

[magiccarpetride]

"obnoxious" sex? :scratch: Oh well - chacun a son goute.

Yes, I apologize for revealing too much. I've heard that you Brits prefer to practice "polite" sex -- chacun a son goute.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Yes, I apologize for revealing too much. I've heard that you Brits prefer to practice "polite" sex -- chacun a son goute.

Have you read Three words Daily ? :D
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?14203-Three-Words-Daily-(Or-whenever-you-like)

lot's of practice on a daily basis,

[Gordon Steadman]

If I was only allowed one musician it would be Joni Mitchell. If only one LP it would be Hejira. Reading this thread made me want to hear it again and I am just lost in the musical inventiveness. quality musicianship and sound quality. Pastorius's bass playing is so free and musical that it underpins the whole jazz feel of the album.

She appears not to have made a duff record. Most artists seem to produce a clunker but I have yet to be disappointed even though some of her later stuff seems to lack the incisiveness and clarity of her younger days but that comes as no surprise, I apparently suffer the same malaise.

For anyone that doesn't like Joni and especially anyone who could suggest that Blue isn't one of the best records ever made....did you know that therapy is available?:eyebrows:

[magiccarpetride]

If I was only allowed one musician it would be Joni Mitchell. If only one LP it would be Hejira. Reading this thread made me want to hear it again and I am just lost in the musical inventiveness. quality musicianship and sound quality. Pastorius's bass playing is so free and musical that it underpins the whole jazz feel of the album.

She appears not to have made a duff record. Most artists seem to produce a clunker but I have yet to be disappointed even though some of her later stuff seems to lack the incisiveness and clarity of her younger days but that comes as no surprise, I apparently suffer the same malaise.

For anyone that doesn't like Joni and especially anyone who could suggest that Blue isn't one of the best records ever made....did you know that therapy is available?:eyebrows:

I agree with you that she is a stunning composer, arranger, musician, performer, singer, guitar player, piano player and producer. Where her art gets sidetracked is sadly in people's obsession with dissecting her lyrics. That's in general the malaise of most music journalism -- too much emphasis on analyzing the words, too little emphasis on music. Look, if words were all there is to it, there would be no need for music. Poetry would then be sufficient. But words pale when placed in the light of music. So the last thing I pay attention to when listening to Joni Mitchell are the words. As far as I'm concerned, she could be singing in Swahili, or in some made up language. But her music -- oh god, help me!