Budget Active Speakers [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

jandl100

15-01-2010, 08:34

I had a pair of "Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 Pro-Active" standmounts.

In fact I exhibited with them at last year's PieFi Show at Scalford Hall.

About £180 a pair new, or they were then, and damn good little speakers!

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/Wharfedaleprof2.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/Wharfedalepror.jpg

webby

15-01-2010, 08:35

Thanks Jerry and I've just spotted the AudioEngine A2.

Themis

15-01-2010, 09:54

Yamaha HS50M : this is about the best you can buy right now : http://www.thomann.de/gb/yamaha_hs50m.htm
http://images6.thomann.de/pics/prod/186461.jpg

Psion770

15-01-2010, 13:52

What do you mean by budget I have just brought some Quad Actives which are outstanding I have brought some 9's and 11's I have some projects I also have some Meridian M2's recently serviced SHand for sale - my rooms are currently to small for these check them out on the web 100watts per channel superb imaging and very integrated sound...

Regards Martyn.

webby

15-01-2010, 14:00

Martyn,

Under £200 is where I'm looking.

Cheers

DSJR

15-01-2010, 14:15

Aren't there some baby Alesis that are supposed to be good for this kind of money...?

I think it's Dolphin Music you need to try, as they have a large range IIRC..

Themis

15-01-2010, 14:31

In pro market (and active monitors are part of the pro market, not the mainstream hifi one) the situation is easy :
If you need to buy something good, you just buy whet is sold the most. Of course, you can try some new things (if you want or if you need something special for some special use) but, as the hype is low, what is mostly sold is what is widely accepted as best : you can't fool experienced users. ;)

So, its easy : you go to a pro Music shop and you ask what do they sell most (the Yamaha's, I'm told).

Bialykot

16-01-2010, 22:54

The problem with 'budget' active speakers is that you're limited to some 'computer-type' near field monitors. There are some good ones to be had (I lsitened to some small ones today being used as the main monitors for a £5000 musical keyboard - can't remember the brand, but they were excellent). But they were designed to be used a few feet away - not in a more conventional domestic setting where the volume is to be ramped up and filling a large room. Small studio speakers also tend to be, ...well, 'studio looking' - well-built but your wife would throw you out for having them in the living room! There are some good makes for traditional hifi though - AVI, Dynaudio, Quad ... but these are all outside your budget. The AVI's (ADM9.1) look interesting (in several veneers) as they have a high quality DAC built into them, but they are 5x over your budget.

Labarum

18-01-2010, 22:19

Yamaha HS50M : this is about the best you can buy right now : http://www.thomann.de/gb/yamaha_hs50m.htm
http://images6.thomann.de/pics/prod/186461.jpg

How do the 8" models compare to the smaller 5" boxes, Themis.

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/8356-yamaha-hs80m-single.html

Will they throw the sound further into the room? I guess that the 8" driver gives better bass, but at the expense of the mid range.

Themis

18-01-2010, 23:34

How do the 8" models compare to the smaller 5" boxes, Themis.
Better (deeper) bass on the 80s. A bit "fuller" midrange (because of the bass).
The two models have the same crossover frequency: 3kHz.
They both have three settings to adapt to the size of the room and distance.

Will they throw the sound further into the room? I guess that the 8" driver gives better bass, but at the expense of the mid range.
No, not further, I'm afraid... 2m- 2.5m is the maximum range to get an optimum (merged) sound from the drivers. Further on, the midrange doesn't "merge" well with the rest.
But you can listen to them really close without problems (that other speakers may have).

Go to an audio shop and listen to them, it's the best way to know how they really are. ;)

Labarum

18-01-2010, 23:58

Has anyone tried attaching Do-it-Yourself grills to studio monitors to make them look more domestic?

Does any third party produce such attachments?

webby

19-01-2010, 11:52

I've been looking at the AudioEngine 5's. I think they might fit the bill. This is a little idea I've touted to my Father in law.

webby

19-01-2010, 12:12

My next question is if he has a windows laptop, what software should he use for playback? Does the airport express only work with itunes? In which case anything other than iTunes would require a different streaming device yes?

Is iTunes bad on windows? Consider that he will probably go with compressed audio mp3's or aac @ 256kbps.

Edit: The reason I mention iTunes and the express is because that's what I use and know about.

Labarum

19-01-2010, 12:32

Airport Express is designed to work with iTunes.
They say iTunes works better on the Mac, but it works well on a windows PC.

You could stream with a Squeezebox, which would directly drive the A5s

You may be able to do without a streamer, if you can connect the laptop to the speakers. You could use the analogue headphone output, but the quality would not be great.

You could connect with one of these little boxes

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/3012-m-audio-transit-usb-hi-resolution-mobile-audio-interface-.html

Which would certainly enable the A5s to achieve their best.

This is even cheaper

http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/Behringer-UCA202-Audio-Interface/79E

If you want to invest more with a view to upgrading later, this box gives to the a Digital Control Amp

Four switch-able inputs and a volume control

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/main/main.html

webby

19-01-2010, 12:34

Thanks Brian,

Do you know anything about the A5's other than the website gumpf?

Labarum

19-01-2010, 12:40

Thanks Brian,

Do you know anything about the A5's other than the website gumpf?

Nothing - except that Ashley of AVI wishes he was making them cos they sell so well.

Do you know this site?

http://www.ripcaster.co.uk/

Not always the cheapest, but interesting.

So is AVI - but not "budget"

http://www.avihifi.co.uk/

Themis

19-01-2010, 13:29

Is iTunes bad on windows?
iTUnes is ok on windows if :
- your library is medium/small (less than 300 albums), and
- your library is located on the local disk (not on a networked HD or another computer)

webby

19-01-2010, 15:32

iTUnes is ok on windows if :
- your library is medium/small (less than 300 albums), and
- your library is located on the local disk (not on a networked HD or another computer)

Affirmative to both.

Themis

19-01-2010, 15:44

Affirmative to both.
Then, iTunes is one of the nicest and most convenient free softwares out there. ;)

alfie2902

19-01-2010, 15:52

iTUnes is ok on windows if :
- your library is medium/small (less than 300 albums), and
- your library is located on the local disk (not on a networked HD or another computer)

Not sure why you think this?

I have over 1200 albums on networked HDs & have no problems at all!! So could you explain what your getting at?

Themis

19-01-2010, 16:10

Not sure why you think this?

I have over 1200 albums on networked HDs & have no problems at all!! So could you explain what your getting at?
You have no problems ?

Try one day to rip an album without being absolutely certain that your network HD is reachable, you will understand. ;)

EDIT:
I forgot about the size: iTunes is the least effective software to scroll through a 1000CDs library. Any other does the job better. Even Foobar (which was not designed -initially- as a library management software).

alfie2902

19-01-2010, 16:24

Thanks Jerry and I've just spotted the AudioEngine A2.

I bought a pair of these for my son to use on his PC for music & gaming. Used with a DAC on a wire they do sound bloody good for the money (with or without the toy DAC TBH!) http://www.penguinamp.com/USB-DAC-Cable/USB-DAC-Cable-with-35mm-Mini-Plug-75cm-30::10068.html?XTCsid=d6b69ea4103d44094de3220f39ff 611a

They are not active speakers though, they are powered speakers. They do though produce quite a big sound for such a small speaker with tiny drivers. No real bass extention to talk of & seem to be tuned with a slight thickening to the lower mids, still very pleasent sounding though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTS3BBTfgQY

I've also heard the A5 similar house sound but with a better low end. They do need some room around them but are a good solution. You would probably get a more accurate sound from a similar priced home studio monitor but would be trading the A5s warmth for accuracy!

Cheers, alfie

alfie2902

19-01-2010, 16:44

You have no problems ?

Try one day to rip an album without being absolutely certain that your network HD is reachable, you will understand. ;)

EDIT:
I forgot about the size: iTunes is the least effective software to scroll through a 1000CDs library. Any other does the job better. Even Foobar (which was not designed -initially- as a library management software).

I've had no problems to date! :) may-be just luck ;)

I use Foobar2000 to listen but the kids & Sally use itunes to listen, so I rip Apple lossless & also convert a lossy file for ipod use. Again no problems! I've had to use EAC on a couple of scratched CDs & again no problems!

iTunes & Foobar scroll the same depending on how you've set them up & they've both got a search filter! So again I don't agree with your edit!;)

iTunes on Windows XP (& Vista to some extent) needs some work to bypass k-mixer though to get a bit-perfect output! an Apple Mac will do this straight out of the box!

Alex_UK

19-01-2010, 17:59

I've been lucky too, then: 2,000 + albums on an external USB Hard Drive with no real issues on iTunes (AAC 256)... Running on a ropey 7 year old laptop...

webby

19-01-2010, 18:40

So, functionally, and aurally, it works fine, yeah?

alfie2902

19-01-2010, 18:48

So, functionally, and aurally, it works fine, yeah?

Yes mate! :)

Which windows OS does the PC use?

EDIT: If you use Airport Express it will be bit - perfect anyway with Windows

Themis

19-01-2010, 18:55

Well, what happens is that when iTunes starts up, if your library is remote and not accessible when it starts, it will default in the "Documents and Settings" folder.
But iTunes says nothing about it. So, if you rip an album, it will be ripped locally. If this happens several times, your library is a mess...

I find it impossible to explain this to my wife or children : too complicated to them. :)

iTuness only complains about unaccessible remote databases when you try to listen to a song (saying it can't access it).

2000 albums on an old laptop ? Either you don't page through artists with artwork (you use the upper list), or you're veeery patient... None of my family is patient enough. ;)

webby

19-01-2010, 19:52

Yes mate! :)

Which windows OS does the PC use?

EDIT: If you use Airport Express it will be bit - perfect anyway with Windows

XP probably.

Alex_UK

19-01-2010, 20:00

2000 albums on an old laptop ? Either you don't page through artists with artwork (you use the upper list), or you're veeery patient... None of my family is patient enough. ;)

That's true, Dimitri - I usually use the search box. I should also say that the laptop is pretty much exclusively used as a music "server" feeding Soundbridge, PS3 and other laptops. It does run slow, if using anything else on it!

Psion770

20-01-2010, 16:34

I have Itunes on my lap top with the tunes stored on a 500Gig Lacie External Hard Drive and so far with nearly 15, thousand tracks, Artwork and BPM and other metadata so far touch wood (gropes recently acquired walking stick) so far no problems - same tracks on Ipod Classic which is played through recently acquired Wadia Dock through a Caiman into active speakers - I'm currently well pleased with the convenience and the aural results..... surprised Martyn:scratch:

webby

20-01-2010, 17:31

Which active speakers Martyn?

webby

21-01-2010, 19:34

I had a chat with the Father in Law (whom this system is for) and he is 'thinking about it'. He really needs to replace his laptop at the moment so that's going to add to the initial cost.

Changing tack slightly....Some folks seem to think the analogue output of the airport express is poor (muffled, I've read), some say it's perfectly adequate. What do this forums users of the AE think? I didn't want to introduce another component with the extra cost involved at this stage to my FiL, cos this is all new stuff to him and I wanted to make it as simple as possible. Besides, I use the AE's a/out and I think it's ok, but then I haven't done any a/b tests. I certainly didn't find it to be horrible.

Themis

21-01-2010, 21:20

Changing tack slightly....Some folks seem to think the analogue output of the airport express is poor (muffled, I've read), some say it's perfectly adequate. What do this forums users of the AE think? I didn't want to introduce another component with the extra cost involved at this stage to my FiL, cos this is all new stuff to him and I wanted to make it as simple as possible. Besides, I use the AE's a/out and I think it's ok, but then I haven't done any a/b tests. I certainly didn't find it to be horrible.
If your father in law is not a hifi enthusiast, then the AE analog output is accurate enough.
In fact, is the quality of an average mainstream £100-150 player : quite enjoyable for most people.

Filterlab

05-02-2010, 11:55

On your original question, you can't beat a pair of Alesis M1 Actives which can be had for less than £200 from the 'Bay.

I had a pair for years, I used them as monitors for composing, as mains on my hi-fi and rear channels on my cinema system. Cracking speakers, I wish I'd have kept them now. :)

technobear

08-02-2010, 15:38

Worth seeing if these are still available:

http://bristol.gumtree.com/bristol/22/52996722.html

http://is.gumtree.com/image/big/388656.jpg

NOTE: although the picture shows a pair, check with the seller that it is a pair and not just one.

http://www.behringer.de/EN/Products/B2031A.aspx

Proper active speakers and only £100 collected from Brizzle.

Labarum

08-02-2010, 15:46

Anyone experience of fitting grills to studio monitors?

Wilmslow sell the bits.

https://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/catalog/index.php?cPath=26_45

I wonder, would acoustic foam fasten to the front of the monitors with double sided sticky tape? No frame to make then.

https://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26_45&products_id=677

DSJR

08-02-2010, 17:38

Labarum

08-02-2010, 17:44

They will if you use velcro as Epos used to offer with the ES14's. I preferred the Es14's with grilles, as the foam *just* dissipated the excessive zip the tweeter had without removing the clarity available. Wish I'd kept 'em, but ATC 20's were better with a meaty amp to row them along...

Thanks Dave.

How thick is that foam? How do you cut it cleanly? What adhesive is best used to attach the velcro the the foam and to the speaker? Which part of the velcro is best attached to the foam and which to the box?

Jason P

08-02-2010, 17:50

Worth seeing if these are still available:

<snip>

Proper active speakers and only £100 collected from Brizzle.

Just mailed him, was looking for these for my studio - there's only one though. I guess OK for a powered center, or a one-eared hifi buff. Zen Actives - the sound of one speaker playing....

Jason

technobear

08-02-2010, 18:09

Just mailed him, was looking for these for my studio - there's only one though. I guess OK for a powered center, or a one-eared hifi buff. Zen Actives - the sound of one speaker playing....

Jason

If there is only one then his asking price is too high anyway :lol:

The Grand Wazoo

09-02-2010, 00:28

Thanks Dave.

How thick is that foam? How do you cut it cleanly? What adhesive is best used to attach the velcro the the foam and to the speaker? Which part of the velcro is best attached to the foam and which to the box?

Brian,
I used to own an old pair of Castle Pembrokes which had foam grilles attached with velcro. The 'hooked side' of the velcro was attached to the speaker cabinets, with, I presume some sort of glue. The other side of the velcro wasn't needed as the hooks grabbed onto the fairly open cells of the foam grilles.
I know it only answers some of your questions, but hopefully Dave might be able to fill in the gaps.

EDIT: Re foam thickness - crikey it was a while ago now - 1/2 an inch??

DSJR

09-02-2010, 08:03

The Velcro I've seen has a self adhesive backing to it, so it's relatively easy to stick small strips at the corners to hold everything in place.

I agree about the 1/2" approx thickness. Wilmslow Audio used to sell it IIRC.

StanleyB

09-02-2010, 20:03

Are we discussing digital speakers by any chance?

Labarum

09-02-2010, 21:21

Started out with monitors - internal DACs were not mentioned, Stan.

steveinspain

10-02-2010, 14:30

So, the Audioengine A2 or A5's are getting the votes along with the Yamaha HS50's it appears - which to go for as computer speakers is now the question, as I seem to need some having had an accident with my old ones....

Damn children that come to visit - one of them poked a hole in my aged pc speakers - I am not a happy chap in some ways, though the mother has offered to contribute (little does she know what I am thinking of spending !)

steveinspain

14-02-2010, 12:09

I've been looking at the AudioEngine 5's. I think they might fit the bill. This is a little idea I've touted to my Father in law.

Have you bought anything yet Webby ?
I am getting closer to the A5's myself so would love to hear more if or when you have got some speakers..

DSJR

14-02-2010, 13:43

I couldn't afford the AVI amp-packs for the N5's last year and now they've sold out :( Not an active solution, but as the passive crossover is so simple and the packs had a fair bit of welly to them and fitted exactly on the back, this would have made an excellent office monitoring system when I cannot use the main one.........

webby

14-02-2010, 14:39

Have you bought anything yet Webby ?
I am getting closer to the A5's myself so would love to hear more if or when you have got some speakers..

Sorry Steve, no I haven't, or should I say, my Father In Law hasn't. I posed the question based on an idea for an easy streaming system for him, see?

steveinspain

14-02-2010, 18:52

I do have some Neutron 5's, and am using them in my main stereo along with the sub. Compared to my old stereo, they are really rather amazing for the money. They can not compete with my old gear but then again, they cost way way less. I would love to get some ADM9.1's but sadly am not rich enough - anyone got any to sell ? I could then use the 5.1 2.1's for the computer...! Oh to be richer.
Lee/Webby - sorry - I did realise you were asking for the father-in-law but had hoped you might have bought something - I am an impatient person !

DSJR

14-02-2010, 21:33

steveinspain

15-02-2010, 06:56

Dave - I have the sub/amp system already, and it is way better than Kans (from my dulled memory) As you say, people ought to listen first, but then Asley of AVI is rather confrontational... However, I bought the speakers/amp and don't really care what he has to say. I had never heard of AVI until I read one of those 27 page threads on PFM, so clearly it is a type of advertising that gets some results, and I don't suppose AVI are really aimed at the PFM market (though I could not define what that is !)

DSJR

15-02-2010, 09:16

I could write a book on what's gone on, but Ash only started there to correct some of the abuse going on regarding "speakerettes" with amps and dacs inside etc. etc.

Typing what you're trying to say is a minefield and I have to be careful to express my opinions "in my opinion." Sometimes in the heat of the moment, something can be posted supposedly as fact when it needs some elaboration and the character JC didn't help with his winding up and put-downs, which rather angered the fishies even more...

IMO, the N5's are fantastic little miniatures and probably do have less distortion and colouration than many bigger "budget" speakers. I suspect the ADM's do too, especially in the midrange and crossover region when compared to nigh on forty year old monitors which are still revered, but the trouble is that people have then taken it that a 6" bass unit will equal a 12" or even a 15" driver in the bass region, which of course isn't quite right. Anyway, the Chinese market have asked for a huge three way and the possibility is being looked at and researched I understand...............

Anyway, those Behringers look to be amazing value at less than £200 for an active speaker and supposedly they equal the Genelecs at £2K - that remains to be seen, but as far eastern speakers like this can be imported for peanuts then £200pr is still profitable..

Joe

16-02-2010, 07:58

AVI do now make the 2.1 sub/amp system for the N5's. Don't know whether it would be affordable though.

If only the "fishies" would give the N5 an unbiased listen, these would make a wonderful upgrade from kans.......

Yebbut a baked-bean tin with a transistor radio speaker inside would make a wonderful upgrade from Kans.

DSJR

16-02-2010, 10:00

:lolsign: You naughty person... :lol: :D

technobear

16-02-2010, 10:47

Here's another interesting budget active speaker:

In a category of £230 - £250 against KRK RP5, Behringer Truth 2031A and Roland DS5, the Samson Rubicon 5A took first place. The panel agreed only the Rubicons could be trusted, describing the overall spectrum as "a lot more balanced." Producer Jon Musgrave commented, "It wasn't very long ago that monitors of the same calibre as the Samson Rubicon R5A would be £500 plus." In fact, the Rubicon R5A will cost you in the region of just £235.

http://www.soundtech.co.uk/samson/news/rubiconfmawards

http://www.dv247.com/assets/products/25854_l.jpg

http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/samson-rubicon-r5a-ribbon-studio-active-monitor--25854