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The Vinyl Adventure
12-01-2010, 21:10
My good buddy Guy the spark came round this eveing to make my washing machine safe and fit a bloody great big light fitting in the dinning room. Whilst he was here we had a good chat about sorting me a dedicated hifi spur.
The good news is it is lookin like it is going to cost me next to nothing!
He has worked out that there will be no issue what so ever in feeding a cable under the suspended floor as there is nothing in the way between where the mains enters the house and where we are putting the conection on the wall .. Happy days!
So it's just about what bits to use...
He has got a cut off of 10mm cable tat he says will be long enough and has said that is what he used last time he did something similar - good idea?
steve mentioned o me about a particular brand of consumer unit bit I can find where I wrote it down - so any ideas any one? Steve?
I want sockets on the wall, I understand that just wiering stuff direct would be better, but I don't feel comfy with that... Would I be right in thinking un switched sockets would be best? I am hoping to soon have a tube distinctions mains conditioner, maybe eventually 2 in the long run.. So I'm guessing just a twin socket would be enough?
As far as earthing, he says he can put in a dedicated spike under the floor directly below the hifi.. Any thoughts on that? He has said if it doesn't test well he will conect it to the main earth, but that having an extra spike should help even in that situation?
Any other conciderations that I should think about?
Cheers for eveyones continued support as I drive my self slightly nuts with this hobby ... It's all good fun eh? :)

Stratmangler
12-01-2010, 21:57
10mm t&e - excellent choice. I did mine with years ago using an offcut of 6mm t&e and the result was easily audible. A clean supply is always a good idea in my book.
Sockets unswitched also good idea.
Earthing - he's the spark and has to sign the job off (by law), so if he's happy you should be happy.

Chris:)

CornishPasty
12-01-2010, 22:34
If he sticks a spike in the ground it should be bonded to the main earth anyway. That's the regs.

The Vinyl Adventure
12-01-2010, 22:40
I thinknhe meant the earth from the rest of the mains?

Ali Tait
12-01-2010, 22:51
If the spike is outwith the equipotential zone of your house,you're leaving yourself wide open to a possible huge current flow if there is a fault with your supply cable.We've been here before with this.You need to be very careful!

Stratmangler
12-01-2010, 22:59
If the spike is outwith the equipotential zone of your house,you're leaving yourself wide open to a possible huge current flow if there is a fault with your supply cable.We've been here before with this.You need to be very careful!

That's why I stopped short of giving the OK to the earthing arrangement - I once had a belt by accidentally touching 2 different earth circuits. Thankfully the current involved was very small. Still hurt though.

Chris:)

CornishPasty
12-01-2010, 23:00
It has to be bonded to the main earth block which will be somewhere near the supplier's cutout, the same as for gas and water pipes.

The Vinyl Adventure
12-01-2010, 23:16
... I'm sure guy knows what he is talking about, there is a fair chance I may have miss quoted... I will show him all this incase though (although I'm sure he knows he is a fully qualified sparky)

Steve Toy
13-01-2010, 01:56
Memera consumer unit. I agree on the use of sockets and fused plugs for safety although you need unswitched individual sockets not doubles - doubles are earthed to one side meaning that the other side doesn't sound as good.

As for the earth being connected to the rest of the house I think I'll go with that too if it's in the regs.

Marco
13-01-2010, 07:29
As for the earth being connected to the rest of the house I think I'll go with that too if it's in the regs.


Matt will do it any way you want, dude. We'll sort it out when he comes down and sees the layout :)

Hamish, you're on the right tracks - I'd go for what Steve is having.

Marco.

DSJR
13-01-2010, 07:58
It's usually a good idea to have a master switch by the socket-bank for safety.

Hamish, you're going over to valve gear aren't you? IME this kind of stuff is FAR less sensitive to mains problems and anyway, modern solid state gear should be too. It's only those that used ancient ss circuits in a slightly unstable fashion that ever had real problems (mentioning no naims...) and even they're better behaved now..

The Vinyl Adventure
13-01-2010, 08:52
Matt will do it any way you want, dude. We'll sort it out when he comes down and sees the layout :)

Hamish, you're on the right tracks - I'd go for what Steve is having.

Marco.

who's matt?

The Vinyl Adventure
13-01-2010, 08:54
It's usually a good idea to have a master switch by the socket-bank for safety.

Hamish, you're going over to valve gear aren't you? IME this kind of stuff is FAR less sensitive to mains problems and anyway, modern solid state gear should be too. It's only those that used ancient ss circuits in a slightly unstable fashion that ever had real problems (mentioning no naims...) and even they're better behaved now..

This may be the case, but if it is gonna cost me basically the bits + a couple of beers for guy when we are done... My view is that I might as well just try it

Spectral Morn
13-01-2010, 11:36
This may be the case, but if it is gonna cost me basically the bits + a couple of beers for guy when we are done... My view is that I might as well just try it


Agreed +1 :)


Regards D S D L

Steve Toy
13-01-2010, 12:00
Anthony's amps are VERY mains sensitive - a complete open window. Hamish knows this from first hand experience of hearing his amp for the first time before he bought it.

Matt is Marco's sparky. He'll be coming down here.

The Vinyl Adventure
13-01-2010, 12:21
... il just get guy to do it, he is comeing round to fit a few lights and switches and change a few bits and bobs, so its easier just to get him to do it all in one day... plus hes a good mate and has been for a few years

Steve Toy
13-01-2010, 12:59
Guy sounds like your man. As long as he doesn't give you weird looks you're ok.

Spence
13-01-2010, 13:29
I just had some work done at my house and as the sparky was there got him to install a dedicated supply for my modest system, you should of seen his face when I explained what I wanted. I also upgraded to an isoblue stand.

Now i'm not sure which had the greater effect but the improvement was just incredible, even the wife was convinced my money had not been wasted.

So my advice would be do it, you have nothing to loose.

The Vinyl Adventure
13-01-2010, 13:39
:) got the new stand comeing tomorow too .. happy days

Spectral Morn
13-01-2010, 14:50
:) got the new stand comeing tomorow too .. happy days


Its all go at Hamish towers...exciting days indeed.

Hamish...hate to pounce on you :eyebrows: but I am :eek:...would you write a nice review for SOG of the differences in your set up as is (you have been in the new house probably long enough now to do this...and yes I know every-things not set up right...even so) and how it sounds with the new mains supply and also the differences that Marco and Steve's re-set up makes as well.

As there is a few days (it appears) between the two events it would imho make for a very interesting contribution to how these things can and do effect a systems sound.

We can all learn a lot from your experiences to come....oh yes lots of nice stage/step by step photos would be brilliant too...you know before, during and after. This will give you something to do as the maestros work on your set up.

If you say no..I will understand, but it will be a brilliant article imho and you are imho well able to do it.


Regards D S D L

The Vinyl Adventure
13-01-2010, 15:06
il give it a go... :)

Spectral Morn
13-01-2010, 15:09
il give it a go... :)

Good man...I look forward to it...brilliant :) :rave:


Regards D S D L

The Vinyl Adventure
13-01-2010, 15:09
i was hinda doing it in this thread neil, but i can do a bit of a sumary of events so far with current state of play then how we get on on moday if you like?

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4937&page=9

Steve Toy
13-01-2010, 15:10
Marco and I'll be bringing our Mana spirit levels :eyebrows:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3024/level002.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/level002.jpg/)

Spectral Morn
13-01-2010, 15:26
i was hinda doing it in this thread neil, but i can do a bit of a sumary of events so far with current state of play then how we get on on moday if you like?

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4937&page=9

I had thought of a stand alone write up..with more of a structure to it, but its your write up so you do it as you feel comfortable.


Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
13-01-2010, 15:28
Marco and I'll will be bringing our Mana spirit levels :eyebrows:

Now thats serious..... I have a Mana spirit level too:eyebrows::eyebrows::eek::lol::lol: If your TT set up guy hasn't one of those, then look for new one ;)..also excellent for leveling audio stands.

Regards D S D L

The Vinyl Adventure
13-01-2010, 15:30
my iphone has a spirit level like that!

im starting a bit of a write up now neil

Themis
13-01-2010, 15:43
This may be the case, but if it is gonna cost me basically the bits + a couple of beers for guy when we are done... My view is that I might as well just try it
My view is : you're right ! :)

Themis
13-01-2010, 15:45
Now thats serious..... I have a Mana spirit level too:eyebrows::eyebrows::eek::lol::lol: If your TT set up guy hasn't one of those, then look for new one ;)..also excellent for leveling audio stands.

Regards D S D L
If the stands are not leveled, it's the floor that needs leveling ! :eyebrows:

Spectral Morn
13-01-2010, 18:17
Marco and I'll be bringing our Mana spirit levels :eyebrows:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3024/level002.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/level002.jpg/)

Mines Silver :ner:


Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
13-01-2010, 18:23
my iphone has a spirit level like that!

im starting a bit of a write up now neil

I see that :)...nice start :)...keep it up :)


Regards D S D L

The Vinyl Adventure
13-01-2010, 19:59
Now wanting to deviate to much from you lot comparing you inferior (to my iPhone) spirit levels, but I would like some more answers to my original questions ... Namely
consumer unit brand that steve mentioned?
Are there and brands or types of unswitched sockets to use?

Mike Reed
13-01-2010, 20:17
HAMISH,

If you're going to install a dedicated RADIAL CIRCUIT (It's not a spur, although many people call it such), you might as well do it properly.

As aforesaid, MEMERA consumer unit (for however many ways (cables) you think you might end up with in the future.

32 amp RCBO, which is a combination of RCD (earth trip) and contact breaker (fuse). This latter will cost around £50 for each one.

10mm T & E is superb, but even better is to have as many as you have bits of kit (within reason) or can physically cope with. Only limitation here is cost and ambition.

Unswitched (single) sockets are fine, but how many can you get on one cable? Unless you piggy-back them, (or use a hydra, which is pointless IME.) which kinda defeats the 'dedicated' aim!

It's a great start, anyway; just allow for future upgrades (of mains), so don't buy a one or two-way Memera; very little extra cost for a 4 way or 6 way etc.

Outside dedicated earth spike, preferably in a dampish area of garden, will lower the overall impedance, which is good. Connection to house earth bonding is necessary too, of course, and there is some controversy about having both, but I haven't been persuaded that it's not beneficial.

Of course, re-introducing 'orrible 13 amp. plugs, sockets and especially fuses kind of negates what you're trying to achieve, but that's another story.

Not sure about the mains conditioner, though. Is your mains supply really that crappy? Mine isn't.

Chap who has developed a science (as it were) of this practice is Roy Riches, who is a bonza bloke and does know his onions. Marco is acquainted with him.

Ali Tait
13-01-2010, 20:21
MK unswitched sockets will do fine.

The Vinyl Adventure
13-01-2010, 20:26
Memera .. That's the one! Mus have missed that... Il talk to guy about multiple runs of wire... Thought I had rememberd a story about someone watering thier earth spike :lol: ... I will show guy this when he is round for bday Saturday
mains does seem to effect things quite a lot... But maybe a direct line will sort it?

The Vinyl Adventure
13-01-2010, 20:26
MK unswitched sockets will do fine.

Linky linky??

Alex_UK
13-01-2010, 20:42
Linky linky??

Googly Googly? ;)

http://www.google.co.uk/products?rlz=1C1CHMB_en-GBGB320GB320&sourceid=chrome&q=mk+unswitched+sockets&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=AjBOS4-BOMq84gaPvdXxDw&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CCEQrQQwAg

Ali Tait
13-01-2010, 21:09
B&Q sell them!
As for watering the earth spike,yes it will make a difference if the ground has dried out a bit.You will be able to measure the difference in impedance.

Steve Toy
13-01-2010, 21:10
Hamish, read post #9 on page one!

Steve Toy
13-01-2010, 21:14
Marco waters his earth rod. He also uses just a SINGLE spur having rejected multiple spurs which is why he has spare runs of cable.

Marco?

Ian Walker
13-01-2010, 21:18
Marco waters his earth rod. He also uses just a SINGLE spur having rejected multiple spurs which is why he has spare runs of cable.

Marco?
I go one better and piss on mine:eek:

The Vinyl Adventure
13-01-2010, 21:54
This un?:

http://www.mkelectric.co.uk/en-GB/Products/WD/white/logicplus/socketoutlets/13AMPflush/Pages/K780WHI.aspx

Ali Tait
13-01-2010, 21:55
Yep,think they'll do fine.

The Vinyl Adventure
13-01-2010, 22:03
Coolio, socket sorted, does anyone want to voluntee investigate the best memera consumer unit coz I'm getting very lost :)

Mike Reed
13-01-2010, 22:22
Marco waters his earth rod. He also uses just a SINGLE spur having rejected multiple spurs which is why he has spare runs of cable.

Marco?

Interesting. Wonder why, unless it was for logistical reasons. Individual circuits must be better than just one.

Mike Reed
13-01-2010, 22:38
Coolio, socket sorted, does anyone want to voluntee investigate the best memera consumer unit coz I'm getting very lost :)

Blimey,; how many domestic types do they do? If you can, get another buss-bar and double up.

BTW, make sure your sparks puts in a 100amp main fuse and 25mm tails if you haven't already got these. (If a modern house, you probably have).

Incidentally, a chap who goes under the pseudonym of I W C Doppel on PFM has just connected his big (14 way?) Memera adjacent to his kit. He had to use a big armoured cable from meter to listening room, as it ran outside. All his mains cables are hard-wired to the Memera!

That's one way to do it, but I simply have eight circuits over a 12m distance from garage to hifi corner terminating in pattresses (empty white elec. boxes) which have big connector blocks inside. My mains leads are hard-wired to these. That means that the only break is the IEC plug/socket. In the case of my amps, there's no break at all as the leads are captive (bit of a p.i.t.a. sometimes, though!)

Good luck with your installation, Hamish. Believe me, no way can it be worse, so it's a win-win situation!

Ian Walker
13-01-2010, 22:53
Coolio, socket sorted, does anyone want to voluntee investigate the best memera consumer unit coz I'm getting very lost :)

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4751

This is the one you want Hamish.

Ian.

Barry
13-01-2010, 23:00
BTW, make sure your sparks puts in a 100amp main fuse and 25mm tails if you haven't already got these. (If a modern house, you probably have).

This of course assumes that both the meter, the Company fuse and the cable coming in from the street are rated to be 100A or more. Are yours?


All his mains cables are hard-wired to the Memera!
and

My mains leads are hard-wired to these. That means that the only break is the IEC plug/socket. In the case of my amps, there's no break at all as the leads are captive (bit of a p.i.t.a. sometimes, though!)

Does this conform to the latest wiring regulations?

Don't want to be a party pooper, but if an accident happens, your household insurance will be null and void, should the wiring be deemed to be in contravention of the latest IEE Wiring Regulations. It was the insurance companies who forced its introduction.

Regards

Marco
13-01-2010, 23:51
Marco waters his earth rod.


LOL - no Marco most certainly doesn't! And he has five earth rods (wired together in a 'star' formation) plunged deep into his garden lawn (as you will have too). He should water his earth rods, but he can't really be arsed (even if he could find them) and just allows the rain to do the job (when it rains), spending the time he could be fiddling with his earth rods instead listening to music ;)

Besides, I've 'trained' the cats to pish on them, which I'm reliably informed increases conductivity no end (especially if they're fed on Felix)! :eyebrows:

More seriously, earth rods work best (in terms of lowering impedance), when the soil around them is wet. Also, the longer they are and the deeper they're plunged into the ground, the more effective they are.


He also uses just a SINGLE spur having rejected multiple spurs which is why he has spare runs of cable.

Marco?


I didn't so much as 'reject' multiple spurs, Steve; I simply decided to employ a neater solution by doing away with lots of cable and instead introducing a single spur using a run of heavier-duty (armoured cable) than what is normally used in multiple spur set-ups.

This in my opinion helped negate any loss in the claimed benefits of having a seperate cable for each piece of equipment, whilst ensuring that each component connected to the CU 'saw' the same impedance, which isn't necessarily the case with multiple spur set-ups where each run of twin & each cable from the incoming mains supply theoretically could have a different impedance value.

For that reason (all else being equal), a single spur should make for a more balanced and coherent sound, however I have never tested it against a multiple spur set-up, so it's only my theory and gut instinct - nothing more than that! :)

Marco.

Marco
14-01-2010, 00:14
Hi Mike


Incidentally, a chap who goes under the pseudonym of I W C Doppel on PFM has just connected his big (14 way?) Memera adjacent to his kit. He had to use a big armoured cable from meter to listening room, as it ran outside. All his mains cables are hard-wired to the Memera!


That's exactly what I do with a 6-way Memera unit, and it works really well, but these days I don't feel comfortable recommending others to do it, as in certain situations safety could be compromised, so it's much better to play it safe.

I don't mind taking the risk of not using fused plugs or sockets in my set-up at home, where I'm very mindful of the situation and take appropriate precautions, but when it comes to other people, I'd always recommend that they go for the safest 'high performance' solution possible, and that's the sort of set-up Steve will have when his is completed.

Marco.

P.S Don't even think about mentioning 'blanks'! ;)

Mike Reed
14-01-2010, 12:26
.

P.S Don't even think about mentioning 'blanks'! ;)


(Chuckle). It took a lot of will-power!!!!!!!;)

Wish my pussy-cats were so well-trained, BTW. One obviously thinks my earth spike is under the utility room, but he is religious in the sense of 'let us pray'.

The Vinyl Adventure
14-01-2010, 13:13
What's blanks?

Marco
14-01-2010, 13:16
:lolsign:

Shussh...we're not tellin' ya! :eyebrows:

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
14-01-2010, 13:19
Wat, I'm not havin that...
Tell me tell me tell me!

Themis
14-01-2010, 13:36
best look around neat kevlar sushis = blanks :lol:

anthonyTD
21-01-2010, 15:33
Anthony's amps are VERY mains sensitive - a complete open window. Hamish knows this from first hand experience of hearing his amp for the first time before he bought it.

Matt is Marco's sparky. He'll be coming down here.
steve,
its not that their sensitive so much as they respond very well to good mains supplies, but i think thats what you meant!;):)
A...