Re finishing speakers

[Bourney]

I've an old pair of Audio note Es that are in a very dark lacquered vinyl wrap (I think), they look their age and the finsh is a bit smeared and cloudy and difficult to get looking clean. Given how cheap I got these and the current cost of buying a recent pair, I'm thinking of having them sprayed by a local body shop who is a friend of a friend.
Is there anything I need to consider in terms of prepping the cabinet to make sure it'd work?

[walpurgis]

If it's vinyl wrap, you need to remove it first. Clean off any adhesive residue, then prepare the surface for painting, filling irregularities and smoothing. It's a fair amount of work, but just requires patience.

[Bourney]

That was my worry. They are chipboard cabs so removing the wrap isn't an option as I guess they'd crumble slightly. Annoying as they sound great.

[walpurgis]

That was my worry. They are chipboard cabs so removing the wrap isn't an option as I guess they'd crumble slightly. Annoying as they sound great.

Removing wrap from chipboard is not impossible. I've done it. Are you sure it's chipboard though. It's more likely MDF which has a more stable surface.

[Bourney]

Pretty sure early ANs were chipboard.. it'd be a massive leap of faith

[ERICLIMPIT]

Hi Steve, if the E's have a vinyl wrap the chances are the substrate would be chipboard, but as long as the vinyl is sound and not loose you don't have to remove it, get your body shop to use an isolation primer which should enable them to spray cellulose paint with no issues.
Or I can veneer them for you for a small fee!

[struth]

Be tempted to veneer them too. Probably the easiest and cheapest, plus look best

[karma67]

chip board and vinyl wrap? i cant think of a worse substrate. surely its got to be mdf?

[walpurgis]

chip board and vinyl wrap? i cant think of a worse substrate.

My thinking too. I couldn't bring myself to veneer or paint over vinyl wrap. I've seen what happens with painted contiboard, even with 'correct' primers and enamels. Good quality chipboard on the other hand, has been used in decent speakers and can be prepared for painting or veneering, as long as it hasn't 'blown' from exposure to damp..

[fatmarley]

How about using the vinyl wrap that they use on cars? They say you can wrap almost anything and there's a huge variety of colours. Looks easy to do too.

VNRRc47vWRw

[danilo]

re wrap them in Tolex ?.. Stuff that Fender Amps (and others?) use.. cheap to buy, easyish to apply well and actually is a decent 'look'.
Albeit more suited to a Gig Venue than m'lady's lounge.

[walpurgis]

re wrap them in Tolex ?

Surely that would change the tonal characteristics?

[ERICLIMPIT]

It looks easy peasy, good luck!

[walpurgis]

How about using the vinyl wrap that they use on cars? They say you can wrap almost anything and there's a huge variety of colours.

I tried that on my thingy and ended up with a carbon fibre effect condom! :eek: ;)

[RothwellAudio]

I think the guy who owns the body shop would be the person to speak to. He will know what he has available to spray and how it will react with different substrates.
A very low tech option would be to use shoe polish on the cabinets to make them look a bit better.
Some photos of the speakers might help.

[Naughty Nigel]

The cabinets are likely to be MDF rather than chipboard, but either way they should be well stuck together.

I would suggest veneering them. I did this with a pair of Celestion DL8 II loudspeakers nearly thirty years ago, and they still look good. The original PVC wrap simply peeled off, leaving clean MDF behind.

The problem with painting is that the substrate will probably have tiny pock marks, and these will need to be filled. Painting also looks naff in my view!

Yet another suggestion would be to paint them with black gelcoat, which is then polished to a mirror 'piano black' finish, a la some of the current Quad loudspeakers.

[RothwellAudio]

I've an old pair of Audio note Es that are in a very dark lacquered vinyl wrap (I think)...
Actually, this seems a bit unlikely. I thought the point of a vinyl wrap was that no other finish was required, so lacquering vinyl doesn't sound likely at all.

[Naughty Nigel]

Actually, this seems a bit unlikely. I thought the point of a vinyl wrap was that no other finish was required, so lacquering vinyl doesn't sound likely at all.

No other finish is required, but that doesn't mean that nobody will try!

PVC wraps usually have a dull, satin finish which may not have been to the Owner's liking.

As an example they could have been varnished with a conventional varnish to provide a glossy finish. Such varnishes become very dark and yellow with age, especially if kept in a warm, dark place.

Alternatively, the cabinets could have been sprayed with an acrylic lacquer from a spray can, but this would not darken or yellow in the same way.

PVC is readily softened and dissolved by certain solvents, such as ketones, but not white spirit. Provided the varnish or lacquer was applied thinly it would not have caused an adverse effect in the PVC.

[RothwellAudio]

Yes, there are many possibilities. Your suggestion of a "piano black" finish would look attractive but I can't imagine it being cheap. I thought the OP was looking for something at the more "affordable" end of the spectrum.

[Naughty Nigel]

A tin of black gelcoat doesn't cost much more than a tin of black paint.

Gelcoat can be applied by brush or spray. Once applied and cured it would need to be sanded smooth with progressively fine grades of wet-or-dry paper used wet, ending at 1,000 or 2,000 grit, and then polished smooth with T-Cut or similar.

With a bit of elbow grease it would be an easy DIY project, and wouldn't need to take long.

[RothwellAudio]

A tin of black gelcoat doesn't cost much more than a tin of black paint.

Gelcoat can be applied by brush or spray. Once applied and cured it would need to be sanded smooth with progressively fine grades of wet-or-dry paper used wet, ending at 1,000 or 2,000 grit, and then polished smooth with T-Cut or similar.

With a bit of elbow grease it would be an easy DIY project, and wouldn't need to take long.
Yes, what I meant was that's it's very labour intensive and therefore expensive if you're paying someone else to do it.

[Naughty Nigel]

Yes, what I meant was that's it's very labour intensive and therefore expensive if you're paying someone else to do it.

It would be a moderately easy DIY project.

If paying somebody else, it might not cost any more than painting, as there is only one coat involved, rather than several if painting.

The real work is in sanding and polishing, which almost anybody could do.

[Bourney]

All being well a kind AOSer may be veneering them for me. Loads of good info though. I'll take a photo of the finish as I'm was sure I was told it was vinyl finished but it does have a gloss to it.

[danilo]

Surely that would change the tonal characteristics?

Say what ?

[walpurgis]

Say what ?

Surely you know what I'm getting at. The resonance characteristics of the cabinet are part of what creates the sonic signature of each (well designed) speaker. Adding a skin of Tolex will no doubt change this. For better or worse, who knows?

[spendorman]

I think the guy who owns the body shop would be the person to speak to. He will know what he has available to spray and how it will react with different substrates.
A very low tech option would be to use shoe polish on the cabinets to make them look a bit better.
Some photos of the speakers might help.

The shoe polish can work, my friend did this on some black LS3/5's, improved them a lot, but they were not too far gone.

[Naughty Nigel]

There is always Fablon! :)

[danilo]

Surely you know what I'm getting at. The resonance characteristics of the cabinet are part of what creates the sonic signature of each (well designed) speaker. Adding a skin of Tolex will no doubt change this. For better or worse, who knows?

I thought that was what you were implying. Merely incredulous is all.
Clearly we all have varying beliefs. No worries.

[Avinunca1]

I find AN speakers are often unattractive having such a wide frontal area. Use of a decent veneer could transform their appearance. Hopefully we can see the finished result in due course. I assume the fronts would be done but could be mistaken.

[Bourney]

This the current finish...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b91/bigbourne/140D6700-D0E9-4D87-BD57-CD9882CA35E4.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/bigbourne/media/140D6700-D0E9-4D87-BD57-CD9882CA35E4.jpg.html)

[danilo]

Clearly the unattractive bit is appropriate.
Even re wrapping with Kitchen shelf paper would help :D
No grilles to better allow UV to rot the foam driver surrounds?