Contemporary pressings suck?

[magiccarpetride]

Yesterday I experienced a bit of a shock. I purchased a brand new, sealed LP "Abbey Road" by the Beatles. It is a 2012 180 gram pressing from the 2009 remastered source. The outer shrink wrap had a label "Made in Germany", which, to my mind, spells quality.

I washed the new LP, vacuumed it, rinsed it with distilled water, vacuumed again, and then sat down for a listen, expecting to be blown away. Hmmm, for some reason the LP sounds kind of dull. Muddy, murky. Yes, the bass is voluminous, deep and strong, but where is the sparkle?

OK, maybe I'm imagining things. I pulled my old scratchy Abbey Road copy, the one I bought many moons ago on a garage sale, simply for the iconic cover. I put that sorry old beater of an LP on, and my jaw dropped on the floor -- this old LP sounds so superior compared to the brand new remaster, that it is simply unreal! How can this be? The bass is much deeper, much stronger, the highs are crystal clear, the entire sound is so much livelier. Yes, the record is horribly scratched, was obviously badly abused in its previous life, but nevertheless it still sounds brilliant.

This made me wonder: is it perhaps true that all the good pressing plants are now history, that even in Germany one cannot get a decent LP pressed anymore? Or is this wimpy pale sound caused by the digital source -- the remaster used for cutting the LP is a digital remaster from 2009?

Any ideas?

[drSM]

Can't agree more, I bought some quite expensive new pressings that sounded shit.

bte Why did u clean, wash , vacuum, rinse, vacuum as it was 'new'?

[zygote23]

You washed the Fidelity off!

[magiccarpetride]

Can't agree more, I bought some quite expensive new pressings that sounded shit.

bte Why did u clean, wash , vacuum, rinse, vacuum as it was 'new'?

New records are incredibly dirty. As I was washing the new Abbey Road LP, a fairly large thin string of black vinyl dislodged itself from the grooves. If if view the brand new LP under the microscope, you will be shocked how dirty it is. Those pressing plants are not the cleanest places.

[magiccarpetride]

You washed the Fidelity off!

It wasn't much of a fidelity if it was that easy to wash it off.

[chris@panteg]

I think it's the mastering, the recent abbey road just doesn't sound right? I have a copy myself but last year I found a nice condition 1975 Harry Moss cut reissue complete with laminated sleeve, it sounds glorious.

[Søren]

I think it's the mastering

I agree, and take a look at this about 180 gram records http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/greg-lake-on-why-elp-reissues-wont-be-on-heavyweight-180g-vinyl/

[chris@panteg]

Interesting but I'm not convinced at all by that theory? You see if heavier vinyl was sonically inferior then why do the old decca classical recordings from the 50s and 60s sound so Damn good and the Mercury living presence one's I have, they are all on heavier vinyl.

Many old pressings from the 60s in general are thicker vinyl, not quite 180 gm but certainly 160 to 170, no I'm not buying that argument, I think poor mastering using badly digitised recordings and poor pressing seems more likely to me?

[Søren]

Early Deccas are great because of the technique and tube microphones, and they are analogue all the way. Who knows if they would sound even better on thinner vinyl?

I think Lake and Brinkmann could be right about more resonance. The question is how much it affects SQ.

[petrat]

There's quite a lot of debate on the web, e.g. http://www.vinylspin.ca/blog/does-different-weighted-records-actually-sound-better

I like the comment that it takes a 'village' to make a successful record. There are skills there that may well now be in short supply.

I agree about the mastering ... GIGO ... garbage in, garbage out. If the source material is crap, then the whole process is hobbled from the start.

[Simon_LDT]

I think it's just that original pressings are hard to beat, for a number of reasons (fresh tapes, all analogue chain, etc). The biggest thing for me is the mastering, I think a lot of LP's cut today are just not mastered well enough. I have been very impressed with the recent Rush reissues, they don't quite beat originals (at least the ones I've got to compare) but they come very close and are superbly mastered by Sean Magee. The 2014 Iron Maiden reissues are well mastered and cut too, again not quite upto an original cut but very well done. Same with the recent Floyd. There are diamonds out there for sure.

[struth]

the recent Sinatra reissues are mostly very good too, although the top original pressings can be stunning too. especially the capitol releases. IVE A LOT OF THE 180 GM ONES AND DONT THINK PRESS WISE THERE IS DUFF ONE THERE(excuse caps)

[cuddles]

I think the hype about 180gm vinyl is a red herring. As has been stated, it might be good for warp resistance but other than that it is just a way to use up more raw material and to jack prices up.
I've got so many fantastic sounding, wafer thin pressings from the oil crisis '70's that put modern day records to shame. RCA Dynaflex for instance - first press Ziggy Stardust is dead silent and dynamic. I think that probably a lot of experience in record production has gone by the wayside.
I feel sorry for younger people who are starting getting into buying records. A case in point - a while back I heard a Spoon issue of Ege Bamyasi by Can. I couldn't believe my ears. It sounded like a poor transfer from a cassette. It was utter shite! No comparison to an original UA pressing but people are being fobbed off with sub standard product.
I'm always amazed at how good old second hand records can sound. I'm wary of reissues and always try to get the original. Gets a bit expensive though sometimes ;)

[magiccarpetride]

I think the hype about 180gm vinyl is a red herring. As has been stated, it might be good for warp resistance but other than that it is just a way to use up more raw material and to jack prices up.
I've got so many fantastic sounding, wafer thin pressings from the oil crisis '70's that put modern day records to shame. RCA Dynaflex for instance - first press Ziggy Stardust is dead silent and dynamic. I think that probably a lot of experience in record production has gone by the wayside.
I feel sorry for younger people who are starting getting into buying records. A case in point - a while back I heard a Spoon issue of Ege Bamyasi by Can. I couldn't believe my ears. It sounded like a poor transfer from a cassette. It was utter shite! No comparison to an original UA pressing but people are being fobbed off with sub standard product.
I'm always amazed at how good old second hand records can sound. I'm wary of reissues and always try to get the original. Gets a bit expensive though sometimes ;)

These are my impressions too. My only reservation is that 180 gram vinyl may sound problematic on my turntable because I'm using Rega RB300 tonearm, and have no way to adjust VTA. While thin LPs sound mostly fantastic on my TT, these 180 gram LPs sound dull. Could VTA be the culprit?

Other than that, I'm with you. Those old original pressings from the 60s, 70s and the 80s are mostly stunning. I was listening to Joni Mitchell's original pressing of "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" and was blown away by the rip-your-head-off dynamics (especially the ending part of "Paprika Plains"). I've never heard anything coming even close to such dynamics on any digital format.

Luckily, I got this LP at the record fair last weekend for one buck! Washed it and vacuumed it and it sounds squeaky clean now. Bwahahahaha!

[magiccarpetride]

There's quite a lot of debate on the web, e.g. http://www.vinylspin.ca/blog/does-different-weighted-records-actually-sound-better

I like the comment that it takes a 'village' to make a successful record. There are skills there that may well now be in short supply.

I agree about the mastering ... GIGO ... garbage in, garbage out. If the source material is crap, then the whole process is hobbled from the start.

It stands to reason that if the industry that was painstakingly built over decades gets destroyed, you cannot one morning wake up and restart it cold. Many record pressing plants went out of business, got rid of the equipment and the staff got laid off 30 years ago. Today, very few people still retain skills needed for making sure LPs are being pressed correctly. It will take a little bit of re-learning to get back to the level of old glorious days when turntable was king!

I find it interesting how in discussing these things, most people are thinking with emotions. In other words, if a person is vested in the digital format, then they claim that all these debates are just an urban myth, and that there is no way that LPs could ever sound better than digital. And vice versa -- people who have vested in LPs are adamant that digital format is inferior.