Jethro Tull "Aqualung"

[magiccarpetride]

I went to the big records sale event yesterday and among other LPs, bought a near-mint copy of "Aqualung". Took it home, washed and vacuumed it carefully, and sat down for a listen. It sounded real nice, but I was taken aback by the prominent lack of bass. For some reason, the bass was mixed very quietly, I had to strain my ears to hear it.

Is that a faulty pressing, or are all other pressings of "Aqualung" also this lean on the bass?

[Macca]

Anderson was never happy with the recording and says he thought about re-recording it from scratch in a better studio. Never thought of it as bass light but it is the only Tull album I don't have on vinyl (of the good ones anyway, 'A' and 'Under Wraps' are crap so never bothered with them).

[Bazil]

I've got an original , I'll play it later .

[rigger67]

I've got an original and mine seems fine - it's actually a very good recording .. at least on my system : rich and full and very dynamic on an LP12.

Since getting a passive pre (Tisbury) and my Rega speakers I'm amazed at how good it all sounds, but while there's a 98% grin-factor with CD, it's not always as good on vinyl - I'd say more like 60% if I'm honest, with solo artists, duos and small jazz groups all sounding great, while rock generally has too much going on to make it all sing.
Aqualung is one of the good ones in that respect :scratch:

Up To Me, Locomotive Breath and especially Hymn 43 are all top tunes to test any system and should have plenty of bass.

[magiccarpetride]

I've got an original and mine seems fine - it's actually a very good recording .. at least on my system : rich and full and very dynamic on an LP12.

Since getting a passive pre (Tisbury) and my Rega speakers I'm amazed at how good it all sounds, but while there's a 98% grin-factor with CD, it's not always as good on vinyl - I'd say more like 60% if I'm honest, with solo artists, duos and small jazz groups all sounding great, while rock generally has too much going on to make it all sing.
Aqualung is one of the good ones in that respect :scratch:

Up To Me, Locomotive Breath and especially Hymn 43 are all top tunes to test any system and should have plenty of bass.

Interesting. The copy I got is green label Chrysalis, and while the sound is sparkly and very clear, the bass is barely present. Guitars and vocals sound incredibly present, the sound cuts through, but even the drums sound weightless. Very odd.

(mind you, I only listened to side A, so maybe side B does have more punch in the lower frequencies; I'll check it out tonight)

[mik_rik]

I went to the big records sale event yesterday and among other LPs, bought a near-mint copy of "Aqualung". Took it home, washed and vacuumed it carefully, and sat down for a listen. It sounded real nice, but I was taken aback by the prominent lack of bass. For some reason, the bass was mixed very quietly, I had to strain my ears to hear it.

Is that a faulty pressing, or are all other pressings of "Aqualung" also this lean on the bass?

If your copy has a blue & white label then it's probably an '80,s copy ,when the quality of the vinyl used was being reduced to save money as the record companies were trying to push cd.This penny pinching happened with a lot of other record labels also. Agree that "A" and Under Wraps are generally poor.Black Sunday and Fylingdale Flyer do save "A" a bit though. Mick

[mik_rik]

Oh dear you posted a reply while I was composing mine :D Ignore what I just said[feel a bit silly now];)

[alphaGT]

I've got an original copy and never thought it Bass deficient. Didn't you say another album you washed turned bass deficient after it was washed? Or was that someone else? If so, what kind of brush are you using? You scrubbing the bass off them records?


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[Joe]

I have a UK first pressing, but it's so knackered that lack of bass would be the least of its problems.

[magiccarpetride]

I've got an original copy and never thought it Bass deficient. Didn't you say another album you washed turned bass deficient after it was washed? Or was that someone else? If so, what kind of brush are you using? You scrubbing the bass off them records?


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Yes, I was puzzled after I washed Eberhard Weber's "Little Movements" that the bass wasn't as thunderous as I remembered it. But the bass on that LP is still there, still massively monumental, only not as thunderous as before.

On Aqualung, bass is practically delegated to a wimpy whisper.

I don't think my washing records removes the bass, because I've washed loads of records and the bass only gets stronger after cleaning, scrubbing, vacuuming, rinsing, vacuuming again.

[magiccarpetride]

Anderson was never happy with the recording and says he thought about re-recording it from scratch in a better studio. Never thought of it as bass light but it is the only Tull album I don't have on vinyl (of the good ones anyway, 'A' and 'Under Wraps' are crap so never bothered with them).

I've also obtained a nearly-mint "This Was" by the same band. Washed and cleaned it yesterday, and it sounds heavenly. But again, the bass is on a shy side. Not like "Stand Up", where the bass is strong and pungent. I need to get me a good copy of "Benefit" to see if the same problem persists.

[Macca]

You should also try and get - if you don't have it already - 'A Little Light Music' which is a semi acoustic 'double live' album. Might be a bit pricey/rare on vinyl since it is from about '92 IIRC - great bass on that one.

[AlfaGTV]

I share the OPs impression of Aqualung. It sounds good and has good slam and separation. Lots of weird stuff going on in the mix too but it does not have much bass below, say 150hz.
My issue is probably a pretty early UK pressing. Its a gatefold with textured sleeve and the LP has light green labels with almost pink Chrysalis lettering. CHR 1044 is the number on the pressing.

[Stratmangler]

The drums sound like cardboard boxes and the the bass doesn't come thundering out.
That's the crappy recording that is Aqualung - as has already been mentioned, Ian Anderson never was happy with the sound of that album.
Just playing my copy from back then, and it's not a great recording. Mine has Porky etched into the runout, so it has a bit of a helping hand, because Porky was one of the better mastering (cutting) engineers.
It's still a great album, irrespective of the poor sonics.

[magiccarpetride]

The drums sound like cardboard boxes and the the bass doesn't come thundering out.
That's the crappy recording that is Aqualung - as has already been mentioned, Ian Anderson never was happy with the sound of that album.
Just playing my copy from back then, and it's not a great recording. Mine has Porky etched into the runout, so it has a bit of a helping hand, because Porky was one of the better mastering (cutting) engineers.
It's still a great album, irrespective of the poor sonics.

Sounds like you need to set your TT up properly :eyebrows:

[Stratmangler]

Sounds like you need to set your TT up properly :eyebrows:

Touché.
In truth Aqualung has always sounded poor.
I'm up to the last track on side 1, Up To Me, and it's progressed to bass guitar being a bit more prominent in the mix, and the drums definitely sound like Tupperware containers.

[magiccarpetride]

Touché.
In truth Aqualung has always sounded poor.
I'm up to the last track on side 1, Up To Me, and it's progressed to bass guitar being a bit more prominent in the mix, and the drums definitely sound like Tupperware containers.

I agree. I was always mighty frustrated by various digital versions, finally got super excited to lay my hands on an LP, expecting it to blow me away. And then -- whimper...

[Stratmangler]

I agree. I was always mighty frustrated by various digital versions, finally got super excited to lay my hands on an LP, expecting it to blow me away. And then -- whimper...

The Steven Wilson remix is very, very good.
He spent a lot of time referencing the original record release, and almost managed to make that illusive silk purse from a sow's ear.
There was a vinyl release of the Steven Wilson remix - that might be the one to have https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/tn0/Aqualung-Steven-Wilson-Mix-VINYL-Jethro-Tull/B00TZD323U/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1491951784&sr=1-1&keywords=aqualung+vinyl

[magiccarpetride]

The Steven Wilson remix is very, very good.
He spent a lot of time referencing the original record release, and almost managed to make that illusive silk purse from a sow's ear.
There was a vinyl release of the Steven Wilson remix - that might be the one to have https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/tn0/Aqualung-Steven-Wilson-Mix-VINYL-Jethro-Tull/B00TZD323U/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1491951784&sr=1-1&keywords=aqualung+vinyl

OK, that's the one to chase after, then. Thanks!

P.S. Did Steven Wilson also do a remix/remaster of Genesis?

[alphaGT]

Yes, I was puzzled after I washed Eberhard Weber's "Little Movements" that the bass wasn't as thunderous as I remembered it. But the bass on that LP is still there, still massively monumental, only not as thunderous as before.

On Aqualung, bass is practically delegated to a wimpy whisper.

I don't think my washing records removes the bass, because I've washed loads of records and the bass only gets stronger after cleaning, scrubbing, vacuuming, rinsing, vacuuming again.

Yes I really don't see how you could scrub the bass off, without affecting the rest of the spectrum. That would be a trick unto itself!

On my system, all the bass is there, the left hand piano sounds amazing, but I guess I never really thought about how deep it was going? Such great music, it's hard to fault it for the recording.


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[Stratmangler]

OK, that's the one to chase after, then. Thanks!

P.S. Did Steven Wilson also do a remix/remaster of Genesis?

The Genesis albums were remixed and remastered in 2007 by their then recording engineer and producer Nick Davis.
Somehow the multitrack recordings of all bar one of their songs (Say It's Alright Joe) had been stored and were in good enough condition to transfer onto digital format, and I'd expect the resultant flat transfers to be safely archived.
In an interview about the project, Nick Davis made the comment that anyone wanting to listen to the original mixes should keep hold of their 1994 remastered CD copies.

Steven Wilson sadly hasn't been asked to do anything for Genesis to date, but never say never.
It could happen, given the proviso that the unmolested multitrack masters have been securely archived.

[AlfaGTV]

The Steven Wilson remix is very, very good.
He spent a lot of time referencing the original record release, and almost managed to make that illusive silk purse from a sow's ear.
There was a vinyl release of the Steven Wilson remix - that might be the one to have https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/tn0/Aqualung-Steven-Wilson-Mix-VINYL-Jethro-Tull/B00TZD323U/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1491951784&sr=1-1&keywords=aqualung+vinyl
I did compare the original CD issue of Aqualung to the Steven Wilson remaster from Tidal (MQA) but to be quite honest i fail to see Steven Wilson as any kind of saviour... To my ears the Steven Wilson remaster has got som tougher compression and a bit turned up bass. All in all, not much of a remaster to my lugs..
Compared to these, my vinyl (http://www.discogs.com/Jethro-Tull-Aqualung/release/1697429) is still better :)

[Stratmangler]

I did compare the original CD issue of Aqualung to the Steven Wilson remaster from Tidal (MQA) but to be quite honest i fail to see Steven Wilson as any kind of saviour... To my ears the Steven Wilson remaster has got som tougher compression and a bit turned up bass. All in all, not much of a remaster to my lugs..
Compared to these, my vinyl (http://www.discogs.com/Jethro-Tull-Aqualung/release/1697429) is still better :)

The MQA might not be helping.

[magiccarpetride]

The Genesis albums were remixed and remastered in 2007 by their then recording engineer and producer Nick Davis.
Somehow the multitrack recordings of all bar one of their songs (Say It's Alright Joe) had been stored and were in good enough condition to transfer onto digital format, and I'd expect the resultant flat transfers to be safely archived.
In an interview about the project, Nick Davis made the comment that anyone wanting to listen to the original mixes should keep hold of their 1994 remastered CD copies.

Steven Wilson sadly hasn't been asked to do anything for Genesis to date, but never say never.
It could happen, given the proviso that the unmolested multitrack masters have been securely archived.

Haha, an unmolested multitrack -- good one :)

[Stratmangler]

Haha, an unmolested multitrack -- good one :)

You never know - there might be a flat transfer of them all kicking around somewhere.

To be honest I've just accepted that the 2007 remixes are all we're gonna get, and I've been picking up new vinyl pressings with those mixes, and they sound rather good.
I picked up Trespass a few weeks ago, had Wind & Wuthering land today, and I'm happy with what I'm hearing from them so far. I have Nursery Cryme and Trespass scheduled to land tomorrow
The pressings that I'm acquiring have all been half speed cuts by Miles Showell.

[magiccarpetride]

You never know - there might be a flat transfer of them all kicking around somewhere.

To be honest I've just accepted that the 2007 remixes are all we're gonna get, and I've been picking up new vinyl pressings with those mixes, and they sound rather good.
I picked up Trespass a few weeks ago, had Wind & Wuthering land today, and I'm happy with what I'm hearing from them so far. I have Nursery Cryme and Trespass scheduled to land tomorrow
The pressings that I'm acquiring have all been half speed cuts by Miles Showell.

Sounds encouraging. Good to know we have alternatives...

Re unmolested multitracks -- you're right, copy of a copy of a copy is not desirable. But the original first gen tape is what it is -- it cannot be tampered with, no? Unlike the digital master track, which can be tampered with after-the-fact.

[Arkless Electronics]

Yes it's bass light. Not a bad recording really other than that. Some of the more acoustic tracks come across quite well IMHO.

[Stratmangler]

Sounds encouraging. Good to know we have alternatives...

Re unmolested multitracks -- you're right, copy of a copy of a copy is not desirable. But the original first gen tape is what it is -- it cannot be tampered with, no? Unlike the digital master track, which can be tampered with after-the-fact.

If effects have been laid down as each part of the multitrack has been recorded, then that's what you'd get on a flat transfer.
If however the tracks are laid down dry (no effects) then it's possible to get close to the original stereo masters by use of outboard effects at mixdown. Sometimes you might even find the exact same piece of gear used on the production first time round.
It all depends on the production habits of the band, the producer, and the engineer.

In the case of the Genesis remixes I think the original stereo master had basically worn out from over use, and the advent of surround sound made it seem a worthwhile project to revisit things and produce everything in both stereo and surround sound, and it made sense to go back as close to generation 1 as possible.

Don't forget, most of the production nightmares out there are production mastering nightmares - the band/artist deliver things to the record company being the way the the band/artist want it to sound.
The production mastering is usually where everything is made louder than everything else, at the behest of the record company.

[magiccarpetride]

If effects have been laid down as each part of the multitrack has been recorded, then that's what you'd get on a flat transfer.
If however the tracks are laid down dry (no effects) then it's possible to get close to the original stereo masters by use of outboard effects at mixdown. Sometimes you might even find the exact same piece of gear used on the production first time round.
It all depends on the production habits of the band, the producer, and the engineer.

In the case of the Genesis remixes I think the original stereo master had basically worn out from over use, and the advent of surround sound made it seem a worthwhile project to revisit things and produce everything in both stereo and surround sound, and it made sense to go back as close to generation 1 as possible.

Don't forget, most of the production nightmares out there are production mastering nightmares - the band/artist deliver things to the record company being the way the the band/artist want it to sound.
The production mastering is usually where everything is made louder than everything else, at the behest of the record company.

Ideally, we could go back to the original individual tracks. And if the band was using 8 or 16 channels machines, ideally there wouldn't be a lot of 'bounced' tracks, meaning the recorded signal should be in pretty crisp condition. Back in the '60s it was common to bounce a lot of tracks into a single one, in order to free up channels for more overdubs. This bouncing inevitably degrades the signal, but it is what it is.

One would expect/hope that by the '70s, no one was recording on a four track anymore. Hopefully, they were not overdubbing by bouncing tracks, but one can never be certain.

[shire]

I have most of the original Tull LP's and most are bass light, Songs from the Wood a prime example, very toppy?.
I have also seen them three or four times live, and again the sound always seemed to emphasise the higher registers.

[magiccarpetride]

I have most of the original Tull LP's and most are bass light, Songs from the Wood a prime example, very toppy?.
I have also seen them three or four times live, and again the sound always seemed to emphasise the higher registers.

My copy of "Stand Up" is very rich in bass. I just love the sound of that LP (although my observations are that the sound quality is much, much better on side A than on side B, for some reason?)

[chris@panteg]

I have a 80s copy of Aqualung and it's very thin sounding, but I have an original 1st pressing of thick ad a brick and it sounds so much better with decent bass , I think I might try the Steve Wilson remix vinyl of Aqualung and see.