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View Full Version : What is going on here? – Help please



Tea24
07-04-2017, 08:20
I will try and make this as succinct as I can.

Recently I bought a couple of MC cartridges; my first – I had only ever used MMs before.

They are: Denon DL-103R (Low output)
Audio Technica AT-Mono3/LP (High Output).

Now, when I play either of these, after one or two sides they start to repeat as if stuck on a scratch. But they are not; the record is pristine; if I play it with any MM cartridge such as Shure M97xE with Jico SAS stylus or Nagaoka MP-110 with boron cantilevered stylus by Expert Stylus, there is no problem.

The point is it is not as if it happens once it does it every few grooves and ONLY after a side or two has been played. For instance last evening I played three sides of Ella Fitzgerald singing Cole Porter (re-issue of 1959 recording). It played fabulously with the AT. I put the system into standby & went to have my dinner. An hour later I played the fourth side & after the first track off we go with the problem.

I am playing this same fourth side this morning whilst writing this & NO PROBLEM!!!

I cannot believe that it is anything to do with heat build up as the system had been effectively ‘off’ in standby whilst I had my dinner, so had time to cool down.

I have checked everything I can think of, VTF, azimuth, anti-skate, set up, TT level etc and all is fine. The records have been washed on an Okki Nokki; no noticeable problem with static etc.

I have cleaned the stylus, tried increasing the VTF (not too much) but nothing seems to have an effect.

What the hell is going on; the only thing I can come back to is static, but why only with the MCs & not the MMs?

Any thoughts & suggestions gratefully received.

[Just to put you entirely in the picture, the rest of the system is Lenco GL75 with Jelco arm, or Notts Analogue Interspace Junior through Graham Slee Jazz club for MMs & high output MCs, Cambridge Audio 640P for low output MCs, switched with Berenson TC-7240, to Quad 66 through Quad 606MK2 power to Kef 104/2s]

Moderators; I have put his on several forums (fora?) in order to get as much come back as possible – hope that’s OK.

Audio Al
07-04-2017, 08:39
Do you use scales when setting the tracking weight and what weight are you setting the 2 carts at ?

struth
07-04-2017, 08:42
Tonearm cable entrapment maybe? Also check headshell wires are not too close to record

walpurgis
07-04-2017, 09:02
That's funny. I saw a post elsewhere just like this one. :)

Tea24
07-04-2017, 09:26
Al; I do use scales; the Audio Technica is set to 2 grams & the Denon to 2.50 (+/- .3) as recommended by manufacturers.

walpurgis
07-04-2017, 09:29
I agree with Grant. The arm's lateral movement could be compromised, worth checking. Also, is the anti-skating set correctly?

Tea24
07-04-2017, 09:34
Anti skate is set to equivalent of VTA & then adjusted by my ears!

But if it was headshell wires why would it play 3 sides beautifully and the 4th side this morning fine too?

If it was cable entrapment, why wouldn't it do the same with MMs?

cre009
07-04-2017, 09:47
When the problem occurs check the record surface for light debris such as a stray hair.

Do you play with the dust cover down? Is the counterweight snagging?

Phil Lawton
07-04-2017, 12:47
And have you tried playing through all four sides of the album you mentioned with the MM installed? I.e. do you yet know if the MM would play sides one to three OK and then play silly buggers on side four?

Tea24
07-04-2017, 12:52
Yes I have played it right through with MM. It is not only this album but any assortment pf records.

struth
07-04-2017, 13:03
It was just ive had this before as the mc was bigger and caused the headshell cable to occasionally touch record just on odd occasion. I never noticed initially. Ive also heard of internal and external cabling occasionally snagging. Appreciate it may not be this but you did ask for options. It certainly appears that the momentum of the cart and arm is being impeded in some way, and it doesnt take much. Slight warps can cause this

Tea24
07-04-2017, 13:20
Good point, Grant, I shall certainly check all this, odd though that it should only happen with these carts.

struth
07-04-2017, 13:37
One other thing ive had that comes to mind was a slight flaw in record that would be ok with certain stylus and would stick or jump back with another. Sometimes can be weight or more often stylus profile.. a strong loupe and plenty light and you might find it. 1000/1 but you never know

oldius
07-04-2017, 13:37
I would suggest a cabling issue or a collision of the headshell or counterweight, stopping full arm movement.

cre009
07-04-2017, 13:42
Also is the arm height set correct for the cartridge. If the cartridge is bottoming most likely on inner grooves then it may account for what is happening.

Plus check the cue mechanism is not interfering with operation part way through.

Stryder5
07-04-2017, 14:48
Also is the arm height set correct for the cartridge. If the cartridge is bottoming most likely on inner grooves then it may account for what is happening.

Plus check the cue mechanism is not interfering with operation part way through.

+1 for the above comment, I think you may find that the MC has a weak cantilever and is bottoming out, look at the gap between cartridge body and record surface.

Tea24
07-04-2017, 16:30
Thanks for the replies - I will look into all the suggestions & see what I can make of it.

Tea24
07-04-2017, 18:26
Working on all these ideas, for which I am more than grateful, & will report success/failure in due course. I should have more time over the weekend.

Tea24
08-04-2017, 07:53
Well; it seems you are right! I adjusted the tone arm cueing platform & it played all sides without a hitch. So far I have only tried it with the Audio Technica cart, but intend to try the Denon today. IMO it should be OK, with or without a little further tweaking. The only thing I don’t quite understand is why it would play a few sides perfectly & then start playing up, but hey ho, does it matter if I’ve got it to work properly?

I am extremely grateful for all your replies. That’s what I like with these fora; helpful & friendly advice. I had never thought about that bit of the set up and, in fact, the Jelco instructions are entirely useless as they don’t even mention the adjust-ability of the cueing platform; I eventually used those for the Rek-o-Kut arm which I realised is the same under another name!

struth
08-04-2017, 08:07
One of records could have a raised surface at one point. If it was running very close then a cable or the cart itself can touch record and jump back a little.
Good to hear its fixed.

Stryder5
08-04-2017, 11:44
Well; it seems you are right! I adjusted the tone arm cueing platform & it played all sides without a hitch. So far I have only tried it with the Audio Technica cart, but intend to try the Denon today. IMO it should be OK, with or without a little further tweaking. The only thing I don’t quite understand is why it would play a few sides perfectly & then start playing up, but hey ho, does it matter if I’ve got it to work properly?

I am extremely grateful for all your replies. That’s what I like with these fora; helpful & friendly advice. I had never thought about that bit of the set up and, in fact, the Jelco instructions are entirely useless as they don’t even mention the adjust-ability of the cueing platform; I eventually used those for the Rek-o-Kut arm which I realised is the same under another name!

It may be that one side of the LP has grooves closer to the centre, it may be the cueing arm was only interfering at that point?