Croft Vitale ...... a bit of an unknown

[Vinyl turner]

Well, I found something that I can work on to hopefully end up enhancing my present system.
I mentioned elsewhere that I had problems with a decided lack of bass and had several possibilities as to what this could be due to.

Having checked my speakers against a s.s. amplifier, I decided the phono stage & pre-amp were the likely culprits, so had been seriously considering replacing them.
A Croft was my preferred choice but searching wherever I could only revealed lots of decent units that had recently sold and very little currently on offer.

By chance I happened upon a wooden fronted Croft Vitale and the kind Parcelforce man brought it to me this afternoon.
I have several reasons for holding off plugging it in and trying to get it working and believe me I am itching to do just that. But, I have asked Mr Croft for some advice/recommendations and until I am certain as to the next course of action I will resist the obvious course of action.
It isn't the best cosmetically, but only requires a few bits & pieces to sort it's appearance out. It is missing a mains lead, which I'm sure can be easily sorted and that only leaves me with the internals to consider.
Hopefully Mr C will make some suggestions that I'll find hard to resist.

It isn't the model I wanted, but as the Stones said - you get what you need, not what you want (or something like that).
If anyone is interested, I'll post updates as the saga continues.

[Vinyl turner]

After receiving a reply from Mr. Croft, I did a bit of tinkering and light fettling before tentatively switching it on today.
Having removed the lid it was thick of dust inside and although certain 'vintage' items are better for their patina, I decided a film of dust wouldn't be so appealing in this instance.
I gave it a couple of dry run - warm ups and then un-plugged the Cambridge phono and NVA pre-amp and leaving the lid off I gingerly connected it up.

Selecting an old faithful LP I dropped it on the platter and delicately lowered the tonearm. I immediately heard that distinctive click - which I took to be a good sign: Something was working.
Anyway, to cut a long story short - this was only a short test after all, I had to fiddle around as the left speaker kept dropping off and then noisily coming back on (with a screech).
I managed to stabilise whatever was causing this but it will clearly need attention as there must be a problem somewhere.
But ...... lo and behold, I was hearing bass coming through - something previously absent.

I have to say I was willing to be underwhelmed by it, thinking it might require some upgrades before it could omit some decent sounds, but no - it is instantly far better than the old combination and shows great promise.
The Cambridge & NVA will be going up for sale in due course, while I start to work my way through a decent selection from my vinyl collection to appreciate what it gives me on a variety of music genres.
I feel a few good months coming on.
The other thing I need to consider is the blank canvass as far as what I will ask Mr. Croft to do to it (not too delicately put, but you know what I mean). Of course I'd like the full works, but reality is that I have plenty of other worthy causes for diverting cash to (e.g. a new drive surface, some back garden landscaping and Mrs VT wants the kitchen upgrading - to name but a few) and the Vitale will have to be built up in stages: well, that's the official version !

So, ladies & gentlemen my question to you all is simply - do you have any recommendations as to the best things to deal with first/quick wins/priorities etc ?
As I have no idea myself I didn't want to flounder around asking Mr. Croft to 'make it sound nice' and come across like the amateur I am.
Much appreciate any advice and will aim to keep a set of photos to capture things as time progresses.

[Bigman80]

Amateur is fine mate. Its how the clever guys make the money 😂

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Ninanina]

Mark I owned the very same Vitale but without the nice wooden front and it was a fantastic pre when used with a pair of Quad II's

I did absolutely nothing to the Vitale as it was very good as it was. An absolute bargain of a pre amp in my opinion ;)

[ianlenco]

I had one of these a few years ago, very nice it was too. I sent mine back to Glen for a general check up and to fix a noisy selection knob. He's a real gent so if you think it's not working at its best I wouldn't hesitate to let Glen check it over.


http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu293/thebriars/croftvitale.jpg

[Ninanina]

I had one of these a few years ago, very nice it was too. I sent mine back to Glen for a general check up and to fix a noisy selection knob. He's a real gent so if you think it's not working at its best I wouldn't hesitate to let Glen check it over.


http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu293/thebriars/croftvitale.jpg

Glen is a real nice gent to deal with..

[Haselsh1]

Love the look of that amplifier but do not like the current flimsy tin boxes.

[Vinyl turner]

Thanks for comments all.

I must admit I had another listening session on Friday and started to get a warm fuzzy feeling inside: I am quite impressed with how much better the few albums I've listened to sound compared to the previous set up. Like most people I will probably always strive for slightly better sounds, but I can well imagine sticking with this for some time.
There are a couple of immediate things to put right;
a) grease stain on the wooden front panel that I need to remove.
b) The left-hand control knob comes off. I assumed there would be a grub screw but a few turns of thread below the surface there appears to be something that is flatish and I wondered if it was meant to be an allen key grub. Looking into the shaft of the knob there is something protruding (not enough to hold it in place though).

In an earlier post I mentioned my power amp is a Leak Stereo 20, which was re-kindled from the dead by Glen (and extensively re-jigged) - so it will be to him that I go for anything doing.

I'll wait for daylight and take some photos to post on here.

[The Black Adder]

+1 to that. Glenn is a very nice chap indeed. I sent my Epoch to him and it came back a dual boxed monster.. lol :)

His experience always makes for a knowledgeable, excellent and polite service all round. Just how it should be.

Glad your moving your old system on, Mark. :) The Croft is a keeper.

[rubber duck]

Love the look of that amplifier but do not like the current flimsy tin boxes.

Looks are obviously a highly personal matter and I think the current range looks clean and understated. As for build, there is nothing flimsy.

[Vinyl turner]

A photo taken this morning - on which you can see the grease mark to the right of the control knobs.
Although it doesn't spoil the sound, it just has to be got rid of.

http://i65.tinypic.com/67shub.jpg

You'll note the current flimsy Ikea table all this is standing on: the big piece of timber below is to take out an obvious sag of that bottom shelf - caused by the previous Cambridge & NVA. It will go eventually but the whole room is due work so it will have to wait (for now).


PS - here is the before shot that shows the NVA & Cambridge, together with my Technics SUV-303 integrated amp (that I used to determine if the lack of bass being experienced was due to speaker problems).

http://i68.tinypic.com/2i0rw4y.jpg

[Vinyl turner]

+1 to that. Glenn is a very nice chap indeed. I sent my Epoch to him and it came back a dual boxed monster.. lol :)

His experience always makes for a knowledgeable, excellent and polite service all round. Just how it should be.

Glad your moving your old system on, Mark. :) The Croft is a keeper.

Thanks Josie, I hope one day that mine will grow up like yours :)

[Haselsh1]

Looks are obviously a highly personal matter and I think the current range looks clean and understated. As for build, there is nothing flimsy.

In 2009 I owned a Micro 25 Basic and a Series 7 and I know that those boxes were very thin and flimsy especially when compared to what I have now. Yes, OK, there is a huge difference in cost but reputations are made on such things and flimsy tin boxes do Croft no favours at all.

[Arkless Electronics]

In 2009 I owned a Micro 25 Basic and a Series 7 and I know that those boxes were very thin and flimsy especially when compared to what I have now. Yes, OK, there is a huge difference in cost but reputations are made on such things and flimsy tin boxes do Croft no favours at all.

And make no difference whatsoever to sound or reliability....

[The Black Adder]

Thanks Josie, I hope one day that mine will grow up like yours :)

Hope it will, you won't believe the difference it makes :)

Beautiful system and the Croft looks uber cool... You have magnificent taste. Love the Stereo 20 and the TT is a true classic... I have the same TT, beautiful thing.

[struth]

A photo taken this morning - on which you can see the grease mark to the right of the control knobs.
Although it doesn't spoil the sound, it just has to be got rid of.

http://i65.tinypic.com/67shub.jpg

You'll note the current flimsy Ikea table all this is standing on: the big piece of timber below is to take out an obvious sag of that bottom shelf - caused by the previous Cambridge & NVA. It will go eventually but the whole room is due work so it will have to wait (for now).


PS - here is the before shot that shows the NVA & Cambridge, together with my Technics SUV-303 integrated amp (that I used to determine if the lack of bass being experienced was due to speaker problems).

http://i68.tinypic.com/2i0rw4y.jpg

59/50 mix of hot water and vinegar should get rid of it.. wash down after . Dont over wet... depends on original finish of course but white spirit gingerly used can work too, as can meths.. as i say it depends on whats on wood. Try and not use a solvent for the finish

[Vinyl turner]

Thanks Grant,
That sounds just the kind of 'solution' (no pun intended) I need. I'll give it a go.

Cheers,

Mark.

[struth]

Sometimes doing a trial spot on the underside is wise. If it goes tits up you wont be upset. Its probably a wax finish so turps,white spirit isnt a good idea. Weak acetic acid should be ok..ie vinegar. Worst comes to worst you might have to strip and re wax the front. Maybe ask Glen croft what they use?

[Vinyl turner]

Hope it will, you won't believe the difference it makes :)

Beautiful system and the Croft looks uber cool... You have magnificent taste. Love the Stereo 20 and the TT is a true classic... I have the same TT, beautiful thing.

Thank you very much for saying so ....

Yes, the Thorens is a beautiful piece of engineering - maybe the Swiss'ness comes through just enough - not too brash nor too subtle.
I built the plinth myself and it is covered in a leatherette, so as to be contemporary with the late 50s - early 60s styling: akin to some similar audio units of that period which were Rexine covered.
I could have got the dark grey ST20 - which would have been a good match in colour to the TT & its plinth but I just love the gold of the standard Leak.
On a disk somewhere I have the under chassis photos of the ST20 in its original guise and what it now looks like following Glenn's superb work.

My ideal plinth is a piece of Westmorland slate and I intend, at some point to acquire a piece, and create something similar to the ones made by Oswalds Mill in the USA.
Ah well, things to keep me occupied over the coming years.

[Jimbo]

Thank you very much for saying so ....

Yes, the Thorens is a beautiful piece of engineering - maybe the Swiss'ness comes through just enough - not too brash nor too subtle.
I built the plinth myself and it is covered in a leatherette, so as to be contemporary with the late 50s - early 60s styling: akin to some similar audio units of that period which were Rexine covered.
I could have got the dark grey ST20 - which would have been a good match in colour to the TT & its plinth but I just love the gold of the standard Leak.
On a disk somewhere I have the under chassis photos of the ST20 in its original guise and what it now looks like following Glenn's superb work.

My ideal plinth is a piece of Westmorland slate and I intend, at some point to acquire a piece, and create something similar to the ones made by Oswalds Mill in the USA.
Ah well, things to keep me occupied over the coming years.

Glenn sorted an ST20 out for me 30 years ago which I used with his very first micro preamp, very nice combo. Used a 301 and Decca blue on the front end then sold the lot when CD came along.

What a f@@£g mistake!!!:doh: ah well you live and learn.It has taken me 30 years to get back to where I was albeit with Glenn's latest amps and a different but equally nice front end which is capable of running a Decca.

All Glenn's stuff sounds superb even his new tin boxes:rolleyes: If you pick one up they certainly don't feel flimsy, shame on you Shaun!

[simon e]

Lovely looking system, very similar to mine TD124, micro 25 and a ST20.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Vinyl turner]

Sometimes doing a trial spot on the underside is wise. If it goes tits up you wont be upset. Its probably a wax finish so turps,white spirit isnt a good idea. Weak acetic acid should be ok..ie vinegar. Worst comes to worst you might have to strip and re wax the front. Maybe ask Glen croft what they use?

Thanks Grant,

I'll try the vinegar solution first off (was it 50/50 ?). I read somewhere (ont'interweb) that using an iron with something like kitchen paper (like the old use of iron & brown paper to press trousers) - to lightly heat the surface and draw the grease out was worth a try. But for obvious reasons I didn't think I'd follow that particular advice.
Yours sounds a safer bet.

[Haselsh1]

And make no difference whatsoever to sound or reliability....

The reliability of the Series 7 was actually appalling with the amplifier lasting less than six months before needing a repair so my experience is that it does have quite an impact on reliability if not sound quality. My experience of ownership of course, that's all.

[rubber duck]

So the problem was fixed with a better casing?

[Haselsh1]

So the problem was fixed with a better casing?

The problem was caused by cheap tacky switch gear. For those out there who may be interested, it is something that needs to be taken into account when you may be spending fifteen hundred quid or more. Cheap components are always going to lead to the same thing. Even my previous Chinese amplifier lasted longer than the Croft power amp did without needing a repair.

[rubber duck]

The point I was trying to make is that there is nothing flimsy or poor about the Croft case. It is as solid as need be and the build quality is very good including complete hard-wiring. But you are now raising a separate issue and it sounds like you may have an axe to grind. Premature component failure is unfortunate but can happen with any piece of hi-fi. I suspect your experience may be the exception, and to then generalise from this is unfair. The only problem I've had with my Series 7 since I've owned it over the past five years was a blown fuse and that was me being careless and not due to cheap components or a flimsy case.

[Haselsh1]

The point I was trying to make is that there is nothing flimsy or poor about the Croft case. It is as solid as need be and the build quality is very good including complete hard-wiring. But you are now raising a separate issue and it sounds like you may have an axe to grind. Premature component failure is unfortunate but can happen with any piece of hi-fi. I suspect your experience may be the exception, and to then generalise from this is unfair. The only problem I've had with my Series 7 since I've owned it over the past five years was a blown fuse and that was me being careless and not due to cheap components or a flimsy case.

As I always do, I speak from experience and there may be folk out there who are taken in by what is said on forums and what is not necessarily true. I do not ever hero worship anything like many others do and I am only interested in fact.
So, what I have said I stand by and unless this forum has recently taken to censorship, I shall continue to express my views based purely upon experience. My experience of Croft was not particularly good. I still maintain though that the sound quality is superb. If the product finish was as good then there would be no competition at all.

[Arkless Electronics]

The reliability of the Series 7 was actually appalling with the amplifier lasting less than six months before needing a repair so my experience is that it does have quite an impact on reliability if not sound quality. My experience of ownership of course, that's all.

As you yourself say in your next post it was due to dodgy switchgear. Not a flimsy case.... I rest mine...

[Arkless Electronics]

As I always do, I speak from experience and there may be folk out there who are taken in by what is said on forums and what is not necessarily true. I do not ever hero worship anything like many others do and I am only interested in fact.
So, what I have said I stand by and unless this forum has recently taken to censorship, I shall continue to express my views based purely upon experience. My experience of Croft was not particularly good. I still maintain though that the sound quality is superb. If the product finish was as good then there would be no competition at all.

And how do you think they keep the price down so low? Fancy heavy weight casework and designer components will double the price of a unit without necessarily adding anything to sound quality. The case will in fact definitely do nothing for the sound quality and the importance of component quality on sound quality is vastly exaggerated.

As it happens I have a pre amp waiting in the wings which I talked up a lot here on AOS 6 months or so ago but have temporarily put in abeyance (see my trade area) which is specifically intended to thrash any Croft in every area including build quality and for only about £200 more money. One has been commissioned and so photos etc will be forthcoming in the fairly near future ;)

[rubber duck]

As I always do, I speak from experience and there may be folk out there who are taken in by what is said on forums and what is not necessarily true. I do not ever hero worship anything like many others do and I am only interested in fact.
So, what I have said I stand by and unless this forum has recently taken to censorship, I shall continue to express my views based purely upon experience. My experience of Croft was not particularly good. I still maintain though that the sound quality is superb. If the product finish was as good then there would be no competition at all.

Well, I also speak from experience and the truth! All I was suggesting is that, judging from the absence or lack of negative forum posts (not just here), yours may not be the experience of most Croft users. No one is saying your experience is not valid but so is mine, and I still own two Croft amps. I'm not sure where the hero worship comes in, or the suggestion that lies are being spread about Croft. But I'm glad you still think Croft sounds great.

[Haselsh1]

I understand what you are saying and I also quoted that it was not really fair to compare with my current amplifiers because of the difference in cost but cheap components are cheap components and as I also said, reputations are built on such things. Of course they are also ruined by such cost cutting and once a dog has a bad name it sticks. The components used in the Croft casework including the switches are very cheap and very flimsy. If one is prepared to overlook this major factor then all is well as the sound quality is impeccable.

[Jimbo]

"Joe, I have one of these along with a Micro 25 Basic preamp and still get absolutely staggered by the detail this power amp uncovers in the music. It is capable of driving some quite difficult loads with my own Dali speakers dipping to 3.8 Ohms in places and has a serious authority and control over its output.

In pure music terms, the amplifier stuns with the amount of detail it uncovers and the way in which low level backing vocals become so obvious. I love the band Ezio and their sound is truly fabulous from this amplifier especially the attack on their acoustic guitars. The amplifier does not quite have the 'air' and 'space' of a good 300B valve setup but it is a lot more powerful and authoritative in its appreciation of sounds.

I do not want another amplifier setup. I have now found the best I have ever heard in around thirty years of using Hi-Fi."

I wonder who wrote this?:)

[Haselsh1]

"Joe, I have one of these along with a Micro 25 Basic preamp and still get absolutely staggered by the detail this power amp uncovers in the music. It is capable of driving some quite difficult loads with my own Dali speakers dipping to 3.8 Ohms in places and has a serious authority and control over its output.

In pure music terms, the amplifier stuns with the amount of detail it uncovers and the way in which low level backing vocals become so obvious. I love the band Ezio and their sound is truly fabulous from this amplifier especially the attack on their acoustic guitars. The amplifier does not quite have the 'air' and 'space' of a good 300B valve setup but it is a lot more powerful and authoritative in its appreciation of sounds.

I do not want another amplifier setup. I have now found the best I have ever heard in around thirty years of using Hi-Fi."

I wonder who wrote this?:)

As indeed I have already broached here for those who care to read.

However, I now have amplification that way exceeds that of the then Croft setup which dates back to 2009. Taken in the context of 2017, the quote was valid when it was made but is certainly not now. However, I do wonder how much Glenn has improved the overall quality of his product in that interim period.

[Vinyl turner]

I eventually resorted to a warm/hot iron & brown paper to pull the grease out from the grain on the front panel.
I'd hoped the vinegar solution would have been sufficient but it was clearly more ingrained and required something more drastic.
It's not perfect yet but almost un-noticeable compared to how it was.

Plenty of albums being played to appreciate the performance of this combination and pretty impressed so far. I know upgrades will be beneficial but as a base purchase it was worth the experiment.

Some pieces I've listened to have been a revelation and each successive album has me dribbling in anticipation.

[walpurgis]

Try a liberal application of talcum power with brown paper and a warm/hot iron. Talc soaks anything up.

[Vinyl turner]

Try a liberal application of talcum power with brown paper and a warm/hot iron. Talc soaks anything up.

I just need to search through my stash of 70s gentlemen's accoutrements to see if I still own any talc. Plenty of Pino Sylvestre and Aramis !!

Seriously though - thanks for that idea it does sound a reasonable way to soak up the residue.