View Full Version : Clash of the titans, Alphason hr100 mcs vs Mission 774.
On to my 3rd Mission 774,i going to keep this one! lol.
i will do a comparison in a while to see how it fairs against my Aphason,for the time being here are some pics.
https://s26.postimg.org/ia2te7fih/IMG_1392.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/h92kp2yix/IMG_1390.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/uei2v6seh/IMG_1393.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/3upht1rux/IMG_1395.jpg
walpurgis
05-04-2017, 18:45
Looks very tidy!
cheers,i forgot to ask you whats the size and length of the mounting plate screws please?
RobbieGong
05-04-2017, 18:50
Good luck setting up the Black for this :lol: Should be right up your street as I know you're not happy until set up has stressed you to the point of breakdown and your fingers bleed :lol:
(Yep, you'll need to set the Black up property each time other wise your clash is flawed and void ;) - as I say, good luck! :))
yeah i really cant wait mate! :(:rolleyes:
RobbieGong
05-04-2017, 18:53
yeah i really cant wait mate! :(:rolleyes:
:D
walpurgis
05-04-2017, 19:19
cheers,i forgot to ask you whats the size and length of the mounting plate screws please?
Can't recall the exact size. I just rummage for something that does the job.
Bigman80
05-04-2017, 19:25
Yep. She's a beauty. Can't wait to hear the results ?
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picked this spare wand up today,unused going by the condition,i can now start drilling out the other one to fit the 2m black.i also grabbed some 0.20mm fishing line to make a new bias line and some rather cool crimps,amazing how helpful the guys in the local tackle shop are :)
on paper the 2m black is a better match on the 774 (i could very well be wrong,Barry where are you?!!)
https://s26.postimg.org/enswuqd6x/IMG_1417.jpg
walpurgis
08-04-2017, 15:27
So there'll be a Alphason up for sale soon then? :lolsign:
along with some ditton 66's!! lol
Bigman80
08-04-2017, 15:34
😂
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1st job to do today to get the 774 ready to fit was to drill the head stock as the 2m black has captive threads in the cartridge.
https://s26.postimg.org/484tm83ex/IMG_1418.jpg
2nd was to make a new bias weight line,the one that came with the arm had previously snapped twice and repaired,consequently the line was too short.
https://s26.postimg.org/jv0odc6kp/IMG_1420.jpg
the weights now sit much better and cover the full range of the arm,before they tipped past 90 degrees.
https://s26.postimg.org/abqzjvj2h/IMG_1423.jpg
now on to the tonearm board....after a cup of tea!
Bigman80
09-04-2017, 09:20
Quick question,
I believe the alphason has silver tonearm wire. Will you be rewiring the Mission with silver to do the comparison ?
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yes your right,mine was sent to J7 sometime in its past and i believe rewired with Cardas Incognito copper wire.
i wont be getting the 774 rewired just yet,i'll see how it sounds 'as is' .
Bigman80
09-04-2017, 17:00
yes your right,mine was sent to J7 sometime in its past and i believe rewired with Cardas Incognito copper wire.
i wont be getting the 774 rewired just yet,i'll see how it sounds 'as is' .
Ah, ok. Well I found the standard mission wiring a bit dull and lifeless. Dark even. It came to life when I rewired them. Im currently using Cardas copper which sound every bit as good as the Kabusa wire.
Looking forward to your findings.
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more bloody money then!
geoff if you see this,what wires in your arm?
Bigman80
09-04-2017, 17:15
more bloody money then!
geoff if you see this,what wires in your arm?
If youre happy to DIY, get the cardas off ebay. Thats what I used. Think it was £15 for 24" I send it all up to J7. He said the wire was a bit stiffer than the one he uses but its essentially the same stuff.
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Bigman80
09-04-2017, 17:16
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302249739515
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shit i had to look! lol
hmm food for thought.
by the way,how easy does the red block connector come apart,ive looked at and can see the join
Bigman80
09-04-2017, 17:31
by the way,how easy does the red block connector come apart,ive looked at and can see the join
Its a piece of piss mate. Just slides apart.
For the money its a no brainer.
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ah i see,thats were ive been going wrong,sweet,what connectors did use for the cartridge?
In the future if you feel like it we could do an exchange, you can try my VDH SME and I can try the 774 on my Toshiba
Bigman80
09-04-2017, 17:50
I used tonar gold tags but geoff uses VDH style ones I think.
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Bigman80
09-04-2017, 17:54
In the future if you feel like it we could do an exchange, you can try my VDH SME and I can try the 774 on my Toshiba
The 774 on a toshy is a dream id borrow you mine but theres no way im letting it out of my sight lol
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he's got sausage fingers to,beware! :)
walpurgis
09-04-2017, 18:32
geoff if you see this,what wires in your arm?
Depends on which arm wand I'm using. Standard or copper litz. The lead out to the phono stage has been changed too.
cool,what have you got going from base to the amp?
ive never thought the original wire made it sound life less by the way.
walpurgis
09-04-2017, 18:42
cool,what have you got going from base to the amp?
Hefty figure 8 screened copper + earth in the middle. Made by Soundlab. It's been on there twenty years, sounds OK.
he's got sausage fingers to,beware! :)
And fists of ham
Jamie says I'm only allowed to play with Lego now :scratch:
walpurgis
09-04-2017, 19:29
Jamie says I'm only allowed to play with Lego now :scratch:
Don't forget the hard hat and safety goggles! :D
Bigman80
09-04-2017, 19:37
Haha lego is Dangerous.
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dont knock it oliver,ive just read toshiba have joined forces with lego to bring out a new model,you can clearly see its sr-370 heritage !
https://s26.postimg.org/suib0tjrd/1680809-o_1977qb2ae1dns164l17eq1ds61nu87-full.png
i'll get my coat! lol
Bigman80
09-04-2017, 19:55
dont knock it oliver,ive just read toshiba have joined forces with lego to bring out a new model,you can clearly see its sr-370 heritage !
https://s26.postimg.org/suib0tjrd/1680809-o_1977qb2ae1dns164l17eq1ds61nu87-full.png
i'll get my coat! lol
Hahahaha quality.
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Are you going to stand for that?, go on Geoff, get him :punch:
walpurgis
09-04-2017, 20:12
Are you going to stand for that?, go on Geoff, get him :punch:
I'm above all that. On a higher plane you might say.............. ;) :lolsign:
I'm above all that. On a higher plane you might say.............. ;) :lolsign:
Airfix?
walpurgis
09-04-2017, 20:24
Airfix?
:rolleyes:
I like the Mission arm but I will be very surprised if the Alphason is not significantly better.
That seems to be the general view so far.
Which does leave me thinking what iam I doing this for??? :)
Bigman80
10-04-2017, 09:29
That seems to be the general view so far.
Which does leave me thinking what iam I doing this for??? :)
Lol. I think you need to find out conclusively. Then its something we can all consider. I like the look of the Alphasson. If it were to be better then it would be something id consider looking into.
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Well the Alphason is a very much more rigid construct in a number of ways.
Bigman80
10-04-2017, 17:29
Well the Alphason is a very much more rigid construct in a number of ways.
Is that good or bad ?
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walpurgis
10-04-2017, 18:02
Is that good or bad?
Maybe. :)
Bigman80
10-04-2017, 18:03
Lol
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Is that good or bad ?
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Well, I intentionally left my comment as a statement rather than a judgement.
RothwellAudio
13-04-2017, 15:11
I used to work for Alphason and watched HR100s being assembled. They adjusted the bearings by attaching a magnet to the headshell with blutack. Then another magnet was used to push the first magnet and the bearings were adjusted so that the magnetic repulsion at a specific distance was just enough to cause the arm to move. Then the bearings were locked in place.
After all this time I'm not sure you could guarantee that the bearings don't need readjusting, but if there's no play in them when you move the arm they're probably fine.
BTW, at shows Mike Knowles (who used to own the company) would have an HR100 on display and offer a free arm to anyone who could bend the display unit. No free arms were ever won :lol:
I've been lusting after an HR100s for years.
I used to work for Alphason and watched HR100s being assembled. They adjusted the bearings by attaching a magnet to the headshell with blutack. Then another magnet was used to push the first magnet and the bearings were adjusted so that the magnetic repulsion at a specific distance was just enough to cause the arm to move. Then the bearings were locked in place.
After all this time I'm not sure you could guarantee that the bearings don't need readjusting, but if there's no play in them when you move the arm they're probably fine.
BTW, at shows Mike Knowles (who used to own the company) would have an HR100 on display and offer a free arm to anyone who could bend the display unit. No free arms were ever won :lol:
brilliant,i love stories like these :)
I've been lusting after an HR100s for years.
yes you've got to be quick when they come up for sale,they dont hang around long.
Bigman80
13-04-2017, 16:55
brilliant,i love stories like these :)
yes you've got to be quick when they come up for sale,they dont hang around long.
Any thoughts yet ? Rewiring ?
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hi oliver,not at the moment,im making a new panzerholz tonearm board tonight/tomorrow and will fit the 774 on after,id like to see how it sounds in stock form first :) as always there will be plenty of pics!
Bigman80
13-04-2017, 17:15
hi oliver,not at the moment,im making a new panzerholz tonearm board tonight/tomorrow and will fit the 774 on after,id like to see how it sounds in stock form first :) as always there will be plenty of pics!
I hope so. Im very interested to see how this goes
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well ive done the tonearm board and mocked up the tonearm,one thing ive noticed is theres not enough room for the mounting plate to follow a straight line to the spindle,so the plate will have to go where it is in the photo,do you think it matters?
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/IMG_14271_zpsrbmcluoa.jpg
well ive done the tonearm board and mocked up the tonearm,one thing ive noticed is theres not enough room for the mounting plate to follow a straight line to the spindle, so the plate will have to go where it is in the photo, do you think it matters?
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/IMG_14271_zpsrbmcluoa.jpg
No - as long as the spindle-to-arm pivot distance is correct, you will be able to achieve the full range of overhang adjustment.
The situation is different with arms that use a sliding bedplate to adjust overhang (such as the SME for example) - there the full range is achieved only when the bedplate slot lies on a true radius, and the range is reduced by the cosine of the angle between the centre line of the slot and the radius.
Bigman80
13-04-2017, 21:01
What do you.mean ? Do you have the mounting template
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walpurgis
13-04-2017, 21:02
do you think it matters?
No. As long as the distance from the platter spindle to the centre of the arm axis is right.
cheers me dears! i was thinking they place it like that more for stability ?
walpurgis
13-04-2017, 21:08
I did the same thing here.
http://i64.tinypic.com/m9n0og.jpg
What do you.mean ? Do you have the mounting template
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look at the angle yours is in relation to the arm wand,now look at my photo to get what i mean.:)
yes i do have a template ,i made one myself on auto-cad
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/Capture_zpswxotp9hd.png
I did the same thing here.
http://i64.tinypic.com/m9n0og.jpg
thats weird,i was only looking at that photo earlier,have you still got the technics cartridge?
walpurgis
13-04-2017, 21:18
have you still got the technics cartridge?
No. That's the very desirable EPC-305MC by the way.
i know thats why i asked :eyebrows:
Bigman80
13-04-2017, 21:20
As long as you can do as geoff suggested, it shouldn't be an issue ! It can be a bugger to set up right lol
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walpurgis
13-04-2017, 21:30
i know thats why i asked :eyebrows:
Bought it NOS for £60 in the eighties when vinyl had become unfashionable. Bargain! Kept it until about five years ago.
There once was an ugly duckling...............
Today i have got the Mission 774 set up and running,i can confidently say without doubt that the Alphason hr-100mcs is well in front,now this could be down to the stock tonearm wire and cable on the mission but it just lacks the detail and airy tone of the Alphason.
You could say and im sure its been said a few times before that its like listening with a cloth over the speakers.
its all there but blunt.
To make sure i tried Baerwald and Stevenson alignment and it didn't make any difference,i also tried the small damping paddle too.
One other thing that bugs me is due to the small headstock area the 2m black doesn't sit parallel to the tonearm which makes setting vta a bit of a pain,the tonearm wand is tail up where's the cartridge is tail down!
So on my turntable its round 1 to the Alphason!
The question is do i re-wire the Mission?
https://s26.postimg.org/47j8bmzbd/SDC10708.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/u4cwo92yx/SDC10712.jpg
might not be a good marriage Jamie. Stick with what works well
walpurgis
15-04-2017, 19:31
That does not sound typical of the 774. It has a lucid character.
hmm its improving with use,i dont know the history but could this happen if its not been used for ages? either that or im getting used to the sound??
either way i think im going to re wire it.
Bigman80
15-04-2017, 19:53
hmm its improving with use,i dont know the history but could this happen if its not been used for ages? either that or im getting used to the sound??
either way i think im going to re wire it.
Id strongly recommend rewiring it. Mine sounded shit when I first set it up. I had just sold a Sony PS-X70 and thought id made a huge mistake. After a quick chat with Geoff, I had ordered new wire and thought "£25 to see if it works, if not, ill sell it and buy another sony" I still have the Mission and that says everything.
Rewire.
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where did you buy the wire from olly?
Bigman80
15-04-2017, 20:23
https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/
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I know the Alphason HR100S is an old design now but it really was a very sophisticated construction and still is in many ways.
Never had any experience with either arm but interested in the comparison. The Alphason is an arm I have always fancied. Personally if I was in your shoes I would try a couple of different cartridges before going for a rewire.
the trouble is the cost involved in doing that,the re wire is about £20.
I don't mean buy new cartridges. I would expect you have a few oldies hanging around just to see if the comparison still holds up with those. Particularly as you have had problems setting the 2M Black to your liking previously.
Thats what I was getting at. it oesnt look comfortable on that arm tbh.
I don't mean buy new cartridges. I would expect you have a few oldies hanging around just to see if the comparison still holds up with those. Particularly as you have had problems setting the 2M Black to your liking previously.
i dont have any others to try :(
Thats what I was getting at. it doesn't look comfortable on that arm tbh.
does any cartridge look comfortable on that tiny little block? lol
up early tomorrow to fit the alphason back on :)
Bigman80
15-04-2017, 22:48
i dont have any others to try :(
does any cartridge look comfortable on that tiny little block? lol
up early tomorrow to fit the alphason back on :)
My zyx looks right at home on mine, a shure v15 & shure 75 sat nicely as did my Denon 304. My acutex look all kinds of wrong but sounded great.
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walpurgis
15-04-2017, 22:50
Mk.V Deccas look pretty cool on the 774 too. And work brilliantly well.
i dont have any others to try :(
does any cartridge look comfortable on that tiny little block? lol
up early tomorrow to fit the alphason back on :)
You are the exact opposite of me in that you trade on most of the gear that passes through your hands. I have retained all mine with the exception of an Ittok which I traded in for an Ekos. Still have plenty of MMs that I swap around my decks.
Bit surprised you haven't retained at least one cartridge as an emergency back up.
for me,normally i buy a cartridge to better the one i have,if it does then i dont see the point in keeping the old one,i like to sell on for more funds in the upgrade kitty :)
i take your point though,it would be wise to have a spare.
for me,normally i buy a cartridge to better the one i have,if it does then i dont see the point in keeping the old one,i like to sell on for more funds in the upgrade kitty :)
i take your point though,it would be wise to have a spare.
The issue I now have with retaining gear is space rather than funding. I like having plenty of turntables to use as a hobby so upgrading for sound is no longer my main objective.
My own experience with cartridges makes me a bit wary of comparisons because they can be quite deck/tonearm dependent. I had an Ortofon MC10 Supreme on my LP12/Ekos. It was ok but I was not totally happy with it. In 2014 I got the deck serviced and decided to try another cartridge. Was not sure I wanted to spend huge based on my prior experience so got an AT-F7 and was delighted with the sound and still remain pleased with it.
The Ortofon was spare and the dealer said it still was useable so it ended up on my Heybrook TT2. The Heybrook had an arm board issue which I now know was limiting its performance. Following your posts here and at Audiokarma I fabricated a replacement arm board. I then acquired a Zeta tonearm originally targeted for my Systemdek Transcription but eventually switched it to the TT2. I now find that combo is working better for me sound wise than the LP12 so a cartridge that was ok but not great on one deck is much improved on another deck.
another day and a fresh mind!
some more tweaking today and some re-dressing of the arm wand wire has improved the sound alot,its got some of that airiness back :) got to make up my mind what type and where to get some new wire .
for the time being.the Alphason is going back on!
https://s26.postimg.org/v9bk7detl/SDC10717.jpg
Back on with the Alphason HR-100.....ah bliss.
Im happy again,there's just no contest,yes i could re-wire the 774 and that might bring it up to the same playing field but then whats the point? Im already there with the Alphason,it was an itch i wanted to scratch.
With me looks come into it as well,the 2m black just doesn't look right to me sat under the block,again it looks so much better on the HR-100.
I think we all know the 774 is a good arm,this is my 3rd!,perhaps its a synergy thing? compliance? or just that the Alphason is better? who knows? ive tried it and on my tt with my cartridge and its not a good match.
If anyone wants a good condition 774 with a spare wand then please pm me,i only want what ive paid for it or swap?
some photos to compare :)
https://s26.postimg.org/rjurgtdft/SDC10724_2.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/lk70d5snd/SDC10725.jpg
VesaLato
17-04-2017, 14:39
Mission arm looks bit of home made compared to alphason.
Beobloke
18-04-2017, 12:48
I'm pretty sure the answer you are seeking is already contained in your text somewhere. Let me see if I can find it...
....just that the Alphason is better...
There we are - found it! ;)
I like the 774; it's a nice thing. But it's a fair way behind a properly sorted HR-100S.
I like the 774; it's a nice thing. But it's a fair way behind a properly sorted HR-100S.
lol ive just spent the last 3 days finding that out :)
but i didn't expect the difference to be that much to be honest,i dont remember the last 2 sounding that flat for want of a better word but then i didnt have the hr-100 then,i only had my ittok for comparison.
I like the 774; it's a nice thing. But it's a fair way behind a properly sorted HR-100S.
lol ive just spent the last 3 days finding that out :)
but i didn't expect the difference to be that much to be honest,i dont remember the last 2 sounding that flat for want of a better word but then i didnt have the hr-100 then,i only had my ittok for comparison.
Arkless Electronics
18-04-2017, 16:40
774 for me all day long :)
Bigman80
18-04-2017, 16:44
Well, im going to be a bit controversial here.....
I dont feel this has been the "best case comparison" I was hoping for.
I dont blame Jamie, he quite clearly loves the Alphason, as he should but that Mission needed rewiring before a comparison took place. Cartridge compatibility could've also played a part here too but im not so sure.
I love the Look of the Alphason and was keeping a very keen eye on what was happening! here. I do own a mission and my experience of the Mission is nothing like Jamies.
The Alphason is on my ebay search list and has been for some time. Hopefully ill get one and see what magic it can offer.
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Arkless Electronics
18-04-2017, 16:47
The Mission is simply my favourite arm. I've heard some of the best sounds ever from vinyl from one in the past. Personally I would never re-wire any arm though.
walpurgis
18-04-2017, 16:54
For me, the thing about the 774 is the versatility. I can use any cartridges I choose with it and have excellent sound. Ultra high compliance ADC's to low compliance Deccas and MC's.
Well, im going to be a bit controversial here.....
I dont feel this has been the "best case comparison" I was hoping for.
I dont blame Jamie, he quite clearly loves the Alphason, as he should but that Mission needed rewiring before a comparison took place. Cartridge compatibility could've also played a part here too but im not so sure.
I love the Look of the Alphason and was keeping a very keen eye on what was happening! here. I do own a mission and my experience of the Mission is nothing like Jamies.
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yes sorry oliver i agree it wasn't a good write up was it,i just got to a point with both arms and thought,sod it ones so much better than the other whats the point??
dont get me wrong the mission didnt sound crap after all i wouldn't have bought 2 others in the past,just a bit flat,i also get where your coming from when you described it as 'dark sounding'.
ive checked the bearings and they have no play.
i wanted the mission to be equally as good but it just wasn't on my tt and cartridge,on paper and barry if your reading this please confirm :) the 2m black suits the mission better,only just though.
who knows i may still re-wire just for fun and do a re check.
oliver if your ever near brighton give me a call,you are welcome to hear it anytime mate.
Personally I would never re-wire any arm though.
why is that jez?
Like many arms, it was wired to a price. Most can be bettered and after years of service it makes sense to me if youve any doubts. My arm is getting on a bit and i guess if i had money i might. But it still sounds ok to me so stuff it. Leave that to the youngsters.
Arkless Electronics
18-04-2017, 17:34
why is that jez?
As is commonly known to anyone who hasn't spent the last ten years in Outer Mongolia I'm 100% against the very concept of wiring having any effect whatsoever. Whether it's mains cables, speaker cables, arm wiring etc etc. End of subject.
ah cool so we can rule out the difference being in wire on both arms then.
sweet as.
Arkless Electronics
18-04-2017, 17:42
ah cool so we can rule out the difference being in wire on both arms then.
sweet as.
Yep.
blackstar
18-04-2017, 17:46
As is commonly known to anyone who hasn't spent the last ten years in Outer Mongolia I'm 100% against the very concept of wiring having any effect whatsoever. Whether it's mains cables, speaker cables, arm wiring etc etc. End of subject.
What about old and 'seen better days' wiring that might be suffering from dry joints? Or are you specifically talking about replacing wiring in good condition?
or in this case 34 yrs old?
Stryder5
18-04-2017, 18:03
[QUOTE=Arkless Electronics;855784]As is commonly known to anyone who hasn't spent the last ten years in Outer Mongolia I'm 100% against the very concept of wiring having any effect whatsoever. Whether it's mains cables, speaker cables, arm wiring etc etc. End of subject.[/QUOTE
It's the "end of subject" for Jez because that's what he believes. It's his prerogative.
Doesn't mean it's true.
I along with many others believe cables make a difference, that's our prerogative.
If you don't try for yourself you'll never know.
Bigman80
18-04-2017, 18:12
yes sorry oliver i agree it wasn't a good write up was it,i just got to a point with both arms and thought,sod it ones so much better than the other whats the point??
dont get me wrong the mission didnt sound crap at all,just a bit flat,i also get where your coming from when you described it as 'dark sounding'.
ive checked the bearings and they have no play.
i wanted the mission to be equally as good but it just wasn't on my tt and cartridge,on paper and barry if your reading this please confirm :) the 2m black suits the mission better,only just though.
who knows i may still re-wire just for fun and do a re check.
oliver if your ever near brighton give me a call,you are welcome to hear it anytime mate.
Youre a top fella mate but cant see me being down brighton way anytime soon. Looks like ill have to buy one lol
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oh fuk it,in for a penny.... and in the spirit of a fair contest and im single and the karen carpenter real doll has a puncture im going to re-wire the arm!!:lol:
1 question for you all,what should i use for the arm cable to the amp? i was thinking klotz mc5000 but it may be too bulky what do you suggest?
walpurgis
18-04-2017, 18:26
This?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/99-99-silver-tonearm-wire-internal-turntable-rewire-3-0-1mm-silk-covered-1meter-/121872435262?hash=item1c6029c83e:g:HGYAAOSwrmdTrXf L
It sounds pretty damn good. Although I must admit, I'm using copper litz at the moment (not entirely sure why :)).
is there any point geoff going silver for just the wand when the rest will be copper?
walpurgis
18-04-2017, 18:34
I heard a touch more lucidity. I upgraded the cable out to the phono stage too, but that remained copper.
cheers,can you link to that as well please?
oh fuk it,in for a penny.... and in the spirit of a fair contest and im single and the karen carpenter real doll has a puncture im going to re-wire the arm!!:lol:
1 question for you all,what should i use for the arm cable to the amp? i was thinking klotz mc5000 but it may be too bulky what do you suggest?
Brian made me a Klotz MC5000/MS audio silver RCA cable for the SME and now it's well on the way to wearing in I really recommend it.
yes ian,i had mine before you if you remember,trouble is its balanced cable,ie it has 2 cores and a screen which may be 2 bulky for the tiny mission pcb,
walpurgis
18-04-2017, 18:49
The one I'm using is reasonably hefty and has not caused problems.
cool,is that klotz mc500?
walpurgis
18-04-2017, 18:58
No. It's old Soundlab stuff, nice qualilty cable that sounds better than the original. It's been on this arm twenty years or so.
Arkless Electronics
18-04-2017, 19:31
What about old and 'seen better days' wiring that might be suffering from dry joints? Or are you specifically talking about replacing wiring in good condition?
Obviously if there are issues such as dry joints, tarnished connectors etc then that is a very bad thing!
Arkless Electronics
18-04-2017, 19:38
[QUOTE=Arkless Electronics;855784]As is commonly known to anyone who hasn't spent the last ten years in Outer Mongolia I'm 100% against the very concept of wiring having any effect whatsoever. Whether it's mains cables, speaker cables, arm wiring etc etc. End of subject.[/QUOTE
It's the "end of subject" for Jez because that's what he believes. It's his prerogative.
Doesn't mean it's true.
I along with many others believe cables make a difference, that's our prerogative.
If you don't try for yourself you'll never know.
End of subject due to the complete and utter pointlessness of arguing/discussing it and the fact it is kind of the policy of the site that cables do make a big difference and it is frowned upon to argue with any forcefulness against it. It needed saying though that some of us say cables make no difference at all, never mind which cable makes which difference and which is best. No fancy cables are used in any of my products and yet they get rave reviews time after time;)
Hence my saying "end of subject" in order to avoid any arguments, rather than to try and shut down anyone who disagrees with me...
Bigman80
18-04-2017, 19:47
They do though.
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Arkless Electronics
18-04-2017, 19:48
They do though.
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No they don't X 1000 so :ner: :lol:
Stryder5
18-04-2017, 19:50
As you can see differing opinions
Try for yourself.
Stryder5
18-04-2017, 19:55
Hence my saying "end of subject" in order to avoid any arguments, rather than to try and shut down anyone who disagrees with me...
LOL
Bigman80
18-04-2017, 20:04
No they don't X 1000 so :ner: [emoji38]
😂
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ive ordered these to compare,i will probably go with the silver.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121872435262?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182503619244?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
plus some silver super duper rca leads :) cheers brian :)
walpurgis
19-04-2017, 18:48
I keep a stock of both of those arm wires. They do seem to sound slightly different. Can't say I have a preference though. Both good.
i reckon either is going to be better than whats in there mate. :)i have a cartridge on my radar to use with the 774 as well.
Bigman80
19-04-2017, 19:57
The silver stuff was very good.
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the wires turned up today,therers only 3 strands in the silver wire :eek:
the copper litz on the other hand has a lot more. hmm which one do i try??
Bigman80
20-04-2017, 20:38
the wires turned up today,therers only 3 strands in the silver wire :eek:
the copper litz on the other hand has a lot more. hmm which one do i try??
The silver I had was one solid strand. Hmmm go with the silver first and if its crap put the copper in
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Im getting prepared for tomorrows re wire,made myself a little solder pot by sticking the soldering iron through a tiny socket and bingo you can quickly tin the ends of the wire by just dipping them in.
A quick question to those that have done it before,did you pull all 4 wires through at once or 1 at a time?
walpurgis
21-04-2017, 17:44
A quick question to those that have done it before,did you pull all 4 wires through at once or 1 at a time?
All four. Very carefully. :)
cheers,i might do the copper litz first,its very easy to work with compared to the 3 strand silver stuff,if there's not much in it like you say,it might pay to start off with something easy. this is my first time re wiring a tonearm:eek:
walpurgis
21-04-2017, 18:28
Solder the ends of the litz to a piece of thin stiffish wire and bend its end a bit so that when pushed though it can be waggled to locate the far hole on the side of the tube, then you can draw the whole lot through and then unsolder the litz.
i got stuck in today with the rewire,i started with the silver wire but after cutting into 4 lengths 1 didnt have continuity so i ditched that and went with the copper litz.
soldered all the tags first then fished the wires through with a guitar string.
i didn't go for a heavy braid,just a few twists.
https://s26.postimg.org/czxfr2qtl/SDC10767.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/byx71y9u1/SDC10768.jpg
https://s26.postimg.org/ryfuli5vt/SDC10776.jpg
i think it turned out ok for my first time,relatively easy but fiddly. :)
looks like a nice job jamie... well done
Bigman80
22-04-2017, 18:00
Very nice mate but you'll regret those cartridge clips, they dont grip well at all from my experience.
Nice tidy job. Look the part, all thats left is to eat your words 😂😂
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all thats left is to eat your words ����
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have you ever heard the saying,'you cant turn a cabbage into a steak'? :D
Bigman80
22-04-2017, 18:30
have you ever heard the saying,'you cant turn a cabbage into a steak'? :D
Lol nope, be worth more now you've rewired it anyway
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I got stuck in today with the rewire, I started with the silver wire but after cutting into 4 lengths 1 didn't have continuity so I ditched that and went with the copper litz.
soldered all the tags first then fished the wires through with a guitar string.
I didn't go for a heavy braid,just a few twists.
https://s26.postimg.org/czxfr2qtl/SDC10767.jpg
I think it turned out ok for my first time,relatively easy but fiddly. :)
Nice work Jamie, but does the 'yellow' wire do?
way too fiddly for me these days. Have a hard enough time just seeing tags now :lol:
yeah it wasn't doing me any favors either grant ! :)
Out of curiosity where does the yellow wire terminate at the other end? My experience of a rewire is limited to my AR XA which has a different configuration.
its the earth barry, :)
So the arm earth is the same as the return of the right-hand channel of the cartridge? How does that connect with the metalwork of the arm?
behind the 774 sticker there is a brass pin,the other end of the yellow wire is soldered to that
So the arm earth is the same as the return of the right-hand channel of the cartridge? How does that connect with the metalwork of the arm?
I understand the Mission arms have replaceable arm tubes so soldering to the inside of the tube would not work. I am guessing some kind of ground point on the arm structure.
whoops cross posted with the reply by Jamie
update,
after the rewire the gap has closed,its not far off the alphason now,not much in really,the 774 seems to have better low mid/bass than the alphason,the alphason still clobbers it for dynamics though,this might change when i fit new silver rca cables. :)
Bigman80
23-04-2017, 16:00
Ooooh. I knew it would improve with a rewire
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ive decided to take it up a notch on the mission,i have a Supex SD-900 Super cartridge on its way and over the weekend im fitting the silver tonearm wire plus one of Brians silver rca leads.
judgement day will be a few days after,if it still doesn't compeat with the alphason i will be selling the lot! lol
https://s26.postimg.org/prpe2t4qx/SDC10822.jpg
well here's my final decision! (anyone bored yet?)
after 3 days of getting used to the mission after the silver rewire i decided to sling the hr-100 back on for a comparison,:eek: im sorry to have to say but the alphason is still miles better,it just is,the detail and clarity it pulls out just leaves the mission standing,if you think your mission is good,which it is then all i can say is try an alphason.
what is interesting is how your ears get used to how a tonearm sounds,i was happy with how the mission sounded but it took replacing the hr-100 to realize what i was missing.
after all this sodding about ive had a gut full of setting cartridges and tonearms up lol,im not doing it again for a while trust me.
the mission is up for sale tonight end off.
Bigman80
01-05-2017, 14:48
Well, all I can say is fair play mate. You put your money where your mouth is and gave it a chance. I doubt you'll lose any money either so nobs a good un.
Ive always liked the alphason so ill keep my eye open for a nice example when finances allow and have a listen myself.
At twice the price of a Mission 774, used, is it twice as good?
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Enjoyed the trip Jamie. You did a good job too of wiring etc. Kudos mate
Your journey has prompted me to want a TD124 with an Alphason.
how about a mission 774? its still a very good arm :eyebrows:
Enjoyed the trip Jamie. You did a good job too of wiring etc. Kudos mate
cheers grant,ive enjoyed it to be honest.
My approach now is not to expect really good fidelity from a record deck, but to keep one to enable replay and choose it on the basis of its aesthetics.
I have a Linn with RB300, and doubt that I would prefer the Mission.
Bigman80
01-05-2017, 22:08
My approach now is not to expect really good fidelity from a record deck, but to keep one to enable replay and choose it on the basis of its aesthetics.
I have a Linn with RB300, and doubt that I would prefer the Mission.
I think you'd be surprised.
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you would!
the 774 is a lot better than the rb300.
Bigman80
02-05-2017, 07:06
Its better by a distance. Ive owned both.
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i replaced my rb300 with my 1st mission 774, huge difference.
i replaced my rb300 with my 1st mission 774, huge difference.
I followed this thread with great interest being a fan of the Alphason and knowing how well respected the 774 is.
I'm now greatly looking forward to replacing the RB300 on my TD124 with Jamie's rewired 774.
I'll start a new thread with an update when I get the arm mounted.
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sweet,i will bung in the template i used to mark out the holes for drilling,i used a 30mm flat blade wood bit or you can go free hand with the router. :cool:
whoops lol its been edited :)
Bigman80
02-05-2017, 19:42
I followed this thread with great interest being a fan of the Alphason and knowing how well respected the 774 is.
I'm now greatly looking forward to replacing the RB300 on my TD124 with Jamie's rewired 774.
I'll start a new thread with an update when I get the arm mounted.
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Great stuff, I guarantee you will not be disappointed.
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sweet,i will bung in the template i used to mark out the wholes for drilling,i used a 30mm flat blade wood bit or you can go free hand with the router. :cool:
Brilliant
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Audiovista
04-01-2021, 11:45
I used to work for Alphason and watched HR100s being assembled. They adjusted the bearings by attaching a magnet to the headshell with blutack. Then another magnet was used to push the first magnet and the bearings were adjusted so that the magnetic repulsion at a specific distance was just enough to cause the arm to move. Then the bearings were locked in place.
After all this time I'm not sure you could guarantee that the bearings don't need readjusting, but if there's no play in them when you move the arm they're probably fine.
BTW, at shows Mike Knowles (who used to own the company) would have an HR100 on display and offer a free arm to anyone who could bend the display unit. No free arms were ever won :lol:
Can you remember what size Knurled Thumb Nuts were used to hang the suspension springs in the turrets? A mate just purchased an old goldie and the suspension collapsed while adjusting. Much to my shock that pig iron chassis was held up on 3 nylon nuts. I nicked one from an old Alphason Solo in bits and they were brass. Fixed my mates suspension. I assumed they were M3 but they must be imperial. Bolt measures 2.66 to 2.7mm (M3 = 2.88mm) now my Solo is up the creek on 2 legs... Tried an old imperial nut but it was sticky and chewed into thread. Also tried a UTC 5 which was a bit baggy. Proper sticky situation.
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