Quality in Spades

[alphaGT]

Check these little doodads out!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/4e2adf517377cfb38d3498c74ed9eb71.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/3a687e713f557653a78a334d055fb84b.jpg

I ordered them from China to re-terminate my speaker wires. They were WBT locking banana's, but the Krell only accepts spade lugs. So, these beautiful polished red copper spade lugs fit perfectly in their place! And get this, less than $8 a pair! Took a month to get them, but worth the wait. I am so very impressed, I may order more just to have them handy. Now I just need some red and black shrink tubing to protect and identify them.


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[Audio Al]

Are they clamped onto the banana plugs ?

[alphaGT]

Are they clamped onto the banana plugs ?

No, the copper stranded wire is crimped into brass tubes. The Allen lock screws secure the end on the wire, over the crimped brass tube. Apparently that's the factory method of attaching the WBT connectors? They make an expensive kit, with gold plated crimping tool! I've seen them with a tiny dab of solder at the tip, but the end is very secure and always sounded great to me. Once you crank down on those Allen screws it's a tight fit. And if you put these on the end of a banana plug, it would damage it completely.


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[JohnJo]

Those look SOLID!

[r100]

Hi, they look very nice ! Could you share the link ? Thank's

[Marco]

Nice one, Russell. Those look great, and almost identical to the ones I use from YA Audio. Both are probably made in China by the same company.

I've always preferred spades to banana plugs, due to what I consider is the achievement of a superior mechanical connection, over that offered by banana plugs (providing that they're used in conjunction with suitable binding posts), which ideally should also be made from solid-copper.

Experience proves that removing as many brass-made connectors and sockets from your system as possible, and replacing them with solid-copper or silver varieties, is fundamental in achieving maximum signal integrity, from all connections in your system.

I did that a while ago, throughout my system, and couldn't believe the difference it made for such a small outlay! :eek:

Aside from the Chinese ones you're recommending, the widely available Cardas copper spades are good, but the opening on them is a little too narrow to be used with some binding posts, so I would recommend these new Gaofel (solid-copper) ones from YA Audio, available from Hi-Fi Collective:

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/spades.html


http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4945/gaofelspades350.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/gaofelspades350.gif/)


Those are superb, and only £20 for a pack of 4!! No soldering needed either. Use them in conjunction with the superb Cardas CCBP-S solid-copper binding posts:


http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4412/ccbpsl.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/ccbpsl.jpg/)


...nip everything up nice and tight with a ring-spanner, and you've got as near as possible to the perfect connection!

I also recently fitted these solid-copper RCA sockets to my Sony DAC (again available from HFC), with similarly superb results:


http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2840/rcacopper500.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/24/rcacopper500.gif/)


http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7007/rcacopperparts500.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/rcacopperparts500.gif/)


Superb and only £17 for two! The Rhodium-plated versions are also the same price. If you want the highest SPPV possible from sockets and connectors, then IMO, you can't get much better than these! :exactly:

Marco.

[r100]

yummy, heavy metal stuff :eek:
thx for the link !!

[alphaGT]

Thanks Marco, those YA spades are almost identical, right down to the little word stamped into the face. Except, mine have a stepped width inside, and the YA's don't. Similar in price, I paid just a little less, and would have paid the $5 each if I could have avoided the month wait from China.

Those speaker wires I've got, with Legacy brand name on them, when I bought my Legacy speakers second hand, the owner included these cables. They look expensive, but I've always thought he would not have included them if they were? I've tried to price them but they no longer make them, can't find anything on them. But originally came with WBT locking banana plugs. They have an impressive grip on the binding post that accepts them, and aren't cheap! But I like the fact that I can swap ends on these Legacy wires back and forth between the spades or locking bananas with only an Allen key.

The posts on the Krell are impressive, big wing nuts with a fat post, easy to get a nice tight fit with lots of surface area mating. But, I do believe they are brass. Pure copper would not be tough enough, the threads would strip right off, and the post would stretch. So I suspect that even these copper terminals you've posted here are copper plated something. Or a copper alloy that's harder than pure copper. Pure copper spades are more practical, if they deform a bit that's no big deal. And both copper and brass require a bit of maintenance, they do tarnish over time. A yearly cleaning wouldn't hurt them. I used to tear my whole system down and clean all connections, and open all components and clean the circuits and switches and knobs. A worthwhile undertaking, but I confess I've gotten lazy, I can't recall the last time I opened up any of my components, but I do still clean the connections every year or so.


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[alphaGT]

Hi, they look very nice ! Could you share the link ? Thank's

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PCS-Speaker-Banana-Y-Shape-Spade-Plug-Screw-Type-Pure-Red-Copper-CONNECTOR/111946178479?_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1% 26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3D36fdfddbb8d64241a8 d75c58bbfbd118%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%2 6sd%3D111946178479

Wow what a link! It's an eBay item.


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[karma67]

it also says does not ship to the uk

[Marco]

In my experience, you can usually talk them out of that, especially if you have impeccable feedback as a seller (an immediate payer) ;)

Marco.

[Wakefield Turntables]

YA AUDIO from hifi collective is an old favourite of mine and I use there components when modding speakers, excellent stuff.

[Marco]

Thanks Marco, those YA spades are almost identical, right down to the little word stamped into the face. Except, mine have a stepped width inside, and the YA's don't. Similar in price, I paid just a little less, and would have paid the $5 each if I could have avoided the month wait from China.


No worries, unfortunately I don't think HFC stock them anymore...


The posts on the Krell are impressive, big wing nuts with a fat post, easy to get a nice tight fit with lots of surface area mating. But, I do believe they are brass.


Yeah, but like you say, they're superb. Probably my favourite type of speaker terminals, in terms of how they operate. You can get a really nice, tight secure connection.


So I suspect that even these copper terminals you've posted here are copper plated something. Or a copper alloy that's harder than pure copper.


Nope, defo solid copper, as when you see them in the flesh, and look at the holes drilled where the solder terminals are, you can see that they're copper, through and through :)


Pure copper spades are more practical, if they deform a bit that's no big deal. And both copper and brass require a bit of maintenance, they do tarnish over time. A yearly cleaning wouldn't hurt them. I used to tear my whole system down and clean all connections, and open all components and clean the circuits and switches and knobs.

I do that religiously once a year, and like you say the results are always worthwhile. Yes they do tarnish over time (and change colour), but I don't mind that, as lightly tarnished solid-copper plugs and terminals are still more conductive than even the cleanest brass ones! ;)

Marco.

[alphaGT]

it also says does not ship to the uk

Bummer! I did not see that. Sorry about that, perhaps I should buy a load and resell them?


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[Longmanjon]

So what would be the recommended fitting of spades, screwed with allen screws, soldered, crimped?

ive always generally used bananas soldered, but get the idea that the spade has more contact surface.

[Marco]

So what would be the recommended fitting of spades, screwed with allen screws, soldered, crimped?

ive always generally used bananas soldered, but get the idea that the spade has more contact surface.

Indeed, and yet only the Yanks seem to have properly cottoned onto this? :hmm:

Not only that, but when quality (appropriate) speaker terminals have been fitted, you can get a ring-spanner around them and gently 'nip up' the connections, to make them really tight and secure, by virtue of 'clamping' the spades directly onto the contacts of the speaker terminals.

I could probably lift my amp up in the air, by simply grabbing hold of the speaker cables, the connection is *that* solid! The internal connections of the speaker terminals would give way before the outer ones would...

Banana plugs are inferior, simply because few ever fit the holes in speaker terminals properly, and end up 'wobbling about', even when pushed fully home, simply because the aperture they're supposed to 'mate' with is almost always different from the diameter of the banana plugs used.

I initially soldered the spades, then simply tightened the existing allen screws, for that bit extra protection against the cable being pulled loose - job done - and you will simply *not* obtain a better connection, short of hard-wiring! :cool:

Marco.

[Barry]

Indeed, and yet only the Yanks seem to have properly cottoned onto this? :hmm:

Not only that, but when quality (appropriate) speaker terminals have been fitted, you can get a ring-spanner around them and gently 'nip up' the connections, to make them really tight and secure, by virtue of 'clamping' the spades directly onto the contacts of the speaker terminals.

I could probably lift my amp up in the air, by simply grabbing hold of the speaker cables, the connection is *that* solid! The internal connections of the speaker terminals would give way before the outer ones would...

Banana plugs are inferior, simply because few ever fit the holes in speaker terminals properly, and end up 'wobbling about', even when pushed fully home, simply because the aperture they're supposed to 'mate' with is almost always different from the diameter of the banana plugs used.

I initially soldered the spades, then simply tightened the existing allen screws, for that bit extra protection against the cable being pulled loose - job done - and you will simply *not* obtain a better connection, short of hard-wiring! :cool:

Marco.

I would question the claim that spades offer a greater contact surface area than banana plugs. It all depends on the actual type and manufacturer.

Most of my gear uses banana plug connections (save the Levinson ML2s, which do use 5-way screw teminals and the Quad 510s which use XLR connectors), and I have to say the plugs fit very firmly, to the point that I have some difficulty in unplugging them.

[farflungstar]

Personally I prefer bare ended cables - I don't like the bananas on my isolda cables but can't change them. I just don't see the point of adding another interface/change of metal/added resistance.

[Pharos]

The logistics.

Any even extremely well machined to high finish metal pin, has, under an electron microscope a seriously uneven surface.
These asperities are so pronounced that only a small potion can interact with any interfacing mating part.

Considering that the vast majority of plugs and sockets are made from sheet material forced onto formers, and that there is little guarantee that the result will be anything like conforming with the desired shape, there will inevitably be air gaps in addition to the asperity problem.

I agree with the above re cable ends; I solder the speaker cable together after twisting, and then crush that under the force of the terminal 'nuts' on the speakers or amplifier.

The soft materials allow some compliance from malleability, and will be crushed by the nuts to increase the surface area of contact.

Of course cleaning and re-doing are necessary with time, but this saves a lot of money on expensive plugs and sockets which cannot hope to really mate with a good contact surface area.

The spades above are better, being softer, but they have a screw interface as well, and I would bet that measurement of R would vindicate my approach, which also saves money.

I would have S.Steel terminals, and use a spanner lightly to do up the nuts, further compressing the soldered wire.

BT uses bifurcation, a tapered fork into which one strand is forced. The result apparently gives a more reliable connection than other methods because of a 'cold weld'.

[Marco]

I would question the claim that spades offer a greater contact surface area than banana plugs. It all depends on the actual type and manufacturer.


I would agree, Barry, as nothing is set in stone. However, that's what my experience to date with both bananas and (really good spades) has indicated, although as you say much will come down to the respective designs of both.

However, what I can say is that in all the years I've been into hi-fi, with all the different kit and banana plugs I've used, I've *never* achieved as solid a connection as I have with my current combination of connectors (as listed earlier) :)

Marco.

[Marco]

Personally I prefer bare ended cables - I don't like the bananas on my isolda cables but can't change them. I just don't see the point of adding another interface/change of metal/added resistance.

Makes sense, Adrian, and if you're willing to regularly bare more fresh cable, in order to maintain signal integrity, once the old bits (as a result of being exposed to air) become oxidised/tarnished, then that's cool.

I can't be arsed, so that's why I use spades :)

Marco.

[Marco]

The logistics.

Any even extremely well machined to high finish metal pin, has, under an electron microscope a seriously uneven surface.
These asperities are so pronounced that only a small potion can interact with any interfacing mating part.

Considering that the vast majority of plugs and sockets are made from sheet material forced onto formers, and that there is little guarantee that the result will be anything like conforming with the desired shape, there will inevitably be air gaps in addition to the asperity problem.

I agree with the above re cable ends; I solder the speaker cable together after twisting, and then crush that under the force of the terminal 'nuts' on the speakers or amplifier.

The soft materials allow some compliance from malleability, and will be crushed by the nuts to increase the surface area of contact.

Of course cleaning and re-doing are necessary with time, but this saves a lot of money on expensive plugs and sockets which cannot hope to really mate with a good contact surface area.

The spades above are better, being softer, but they have a screw interface as well, and I would bet that measurement of R would vindicate my approach, which also saves money.

I would have S.Steel terminals, and use a spanner lightly to do up the nuts, further compressing the soldered wire.

BT uses bifurcation, a tapered fork into which one strand is forced. The result apparently gives a more reliable connection than other methods because of a 'cold weld'.

Some salient points there, Dennis, all of which should be considered. I'm happy with the solution I've adopted, so there's no need for me to change it.

Marco.

[Haselsh1]

I would certainly agree with those who have supported the cause for bare wire as things have changed considerably over the years. I remember back in 1979 when I had Naim pre/power gear, their loudspeaker connections wouldn't then even take QED 79 strand. In those days I was practically forced into banana plugs.

[alphaGT]

The WBT banana's that I removed were locking bananas. The pin was sliced into 4 parts, and a needle is forced in between them when you tighten the sleeve. Making them impossible to pull from their holes when expanded. I never noticed any lack of sound while using them. And yes, the Allen screws are holding these spades on. But I am a tech and I will say that nothing is as good as a soldered connection. Solder is not just melted in between the metals, it makes a molecular bond to compatible metals. Making them as one piece of metal. Years ago I broke off the binding posts on my amp, from overtightening. And I soldered the bare wires directly to the amp! I never had to tighten them or clean them for 20 years!


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[danilo]

:eyebrows: I soldered my speaker wires directly decades ago.
A good as it gets electrical connection.... after being pissed with the general crap quality of posts and the ludicrous pricings of hi zoot ones.
But then I don't swap out bits willy nilly either... so it's not a problem... but it could be if a fiddler.

[alphaGT]

:eyebrows: I soldered my speaker wires directly decades ago.
A good as it gets electrical connection.... after being pissed with the general crap quality of posts and the ludicrous pricings of hi zoot ones.
But then I don't swap out bits willy nilly either... so it's not a problem... but it could be if a fiddler.

I moved houses with it, I just wrapped the wires around the amp, and rolled them out at the new house, and all was well! But as I said, back then high end speaker wires had not been invented. This new oxygen free copper Monster zip cord was the latest thing. And at a dollar a foot was thought to be outrageously priced!


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[Sherwood]

The logistics.

Any even extremely well machined to high finish metal pin, has, under an electron microscope a seriously uneven surface.
These asperities are so pronounced that only a small potion can interact with any interfacing mating part.

Considering that the vast majority of plugs and sockets are made from sheet material forced onto formers, and that there is little guarantee that the result will be anything like conforming with the desired shape, there will inevitably be air gaps in addition to the asperity problem.

I agree with the above re cable ends; I solder the speaker cable together after twisting, and then crush that under the force of the terminal 'nuts' on the speakers or amplifier.

The soft materials allow some compliance from malleability, and will be crushed by the nuts to increase the surface area of contact.

Of course cleaning and re-doing are necessary with time, but this saves a lot of money on expensive plugs and sockets which cannot hope to really mate with a good contact surface area.

The spades above are better, being softer, but they have a screw interface as well, and I would bet that measurement of R would vindicate my approach, which also saves money.

I would have S.Steel terminals, and use a spanner lightly to do up the nuts, further compressing the soldered wire.

BT uses bifurcation, a tapered fork into which one strand is forced. The result apparently gives a more reliable connection than other methods because of a 'cold weld'.

This sounds like sentence in a Saudi court for infidelity!

:wowzer:

[alphaGT]

You know, I bet lead would make for good spade connectors. Soft enough to deform when compressed, conforming to the mating surfaces. Much like car battery terminals. Of course they would be covered with warning labels for being health hazards, but for the sake of audio what's a small health hazard?


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[Barry]

The late Peter Belt once advocated using lead (Pb) for the conductors of audio interconnects.

I believe folks are being far too partisan regarding the use of either bare wires, plugs or spade connectors. With all mechanical connections, it is important the apparent mating surface area is 6 - 10x the cross-section area of the connecting cable. That, and sufficient contact force, is all that is needed and is readily achieved by most, if not all, sensible connector designs.