'New' MM cartridge from Thomas Schick

[montesquieu]

Having some fun lately with very low compliance MM/MI cartridges, notably the ancient Shure M3D, equally ancient B&O SP1 (I managed to locate a NOS tip for that), and not quite so ancient but still available Shure SC35C.

Spotted that Thomas Schick has come up with a MM cartridge

http://calamightysound.com/shop/cartridges/das-mm-the-schick-cartridge/

http://thomas-schick.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/MM013-thomas-schick.com.jpg

Bit of digging shows it to be a modified (quite how modified for the price difference isn't clear) one of these:

http://images.junostatic.com/full/IS567765-01-01-BIG.jpg

In standard form it wants 5g which is quite a lot for an eliptical, 2.5g-4g for the 'modified'.

Anyone know anything about these Tonar jobbies? The Shure SC35C I've been utterly astounded at but Tonar I've always assumed are bottom-feeders in cartridge-land.

[montesquieu]

No comment from anyone?

[Marco]

Sorry mate, never heard of the Tonar, so can't offer any advice. What did you make of the SC35C? :)

Marco.

[struth]

if it was Al's then it might be diabolical ...I'll get me coat ;)

[montesquieu]

Sorry mate, never heard of the Tonar, so can't offer any advice. What did you make of the SC35C? :)

Marco.

It's a cracker Marco. I had Bowie's Aladin Sane on this afternoon, the Miyajima and the Royal N of course allow far more insight into the recording, where you can hear exactly what's going on as the producer would have heard it, but my word, the SC35C was producing a fantastic thick, lively, enjoyable rock-n-roll wall of sound.

What strikes me with both the SC35C and the Shure M3D is minimal distortion or compression at the peaks, something most cheaper cartridges do suffer from even with ideal setup and which usually the only cure is more $$$.

I'm running both on headshells that give about 34g all up with the cartridge on, on high-mass arms - I suspect you wouldn't get quite this level of performance out of a lightweight or even a medium weight arm. I put the M3D a nose ahead of the SC35C - when I had it on last the wife came in from the other room and asked what was playing - this was some Renaissance lute duets, made it sound like Page vs Clapton (I kid you not) so punchy and lively and really captured the vibe of the improvisatory element. But there isn't much in it between the two ... the SC35C has a shade more detail, the M3D more balls.

They aren't quite so good with Lieder and string quartets but hey you can't have everything. There's a time and a place for uber high end but sometimes you just want to boogie.

[chiz]

Never tried that Tonar but it is a rebrand of an old Nagaoka design I believe.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/heildriver/NagaokaMM321BE2_zpsd57a351b.jpg

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tom, this is an old favourite on lenco heaven. There is a specific thread detailing many users who have tried it.


Having some fun lately with very low compliance MM/MI cartridges, notably the ancient Shure M3D, equally ancient B&O SP1 (I managed to locate a NOS tip for that), and not quite so ancient but still available Shure SC35C.

Spotted that Thomas Schick has come up with a MM cartridge

http://calamightysound.com/shop/cartridges/das-mm-the-schick-cartridge/

http://thomas-schick.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/MM013-thomas-schick.com.jpg

Bit of digging shows it to be a modified (quite how modified for the price difference isn't clear) one of these:

http://images.junostatic.com/full/IS567765-01-01-BIG.jpg

In standard form it wants 5g which is quite a lot for an eliptical, 2.5g-4g for the 'modified'.

Anyone know anything about these Tonar jobbies? The Shure SC35C I've been utterly astounded at but Tonar I've always assumed are bottom-feeders in cartridge-land.

[hifi_dave]

Tonar in the UK, used to be a supplier of replacement styli and budget cartridges. Nothing 'high end'.

[Wakefield Turntables]

So it looks like it's been rebodied which means that a £50 cart will now cost at £1k

[anubisgrau]

So it looks like it's been rebodied which means that a £50 cart will now cost at £1k

I think opposite, it's stripped from plastic and mounted via adapter into a Schick graphite headshell which I think costs around 300e. I am not sure if you can buy separate (unless you were already a headshell customer), but Thomas' idea anyway was to use them together. I guess such a high damping headshell does a a part of the plastic job.

Tom, btw, your Shure 35C, was it US or Mexican made, do you know? Are differences drastic?

[Wakefield Turntables]

I think opposite, it's stripped from plastic and mounted via adapter into a Schick graphite headshell which I think costs around 300e. I am not sure if you can buy separate (unless you were already a headshell customer), but Thomas' idea anyway was to use them together. I guess such a high damping headshell does a a part of the plastic job.

Tom, btw, your Shure 35C, was it US or Mexican made, do you know? Are differences drastic?

The schick headshell is 350e and not that good, I've tried one. You can get exactly the same effects by buying a graphite headshell from eBay. There is no evidence on his website that his design is any better than what's available at a considerably cheaper price, hence the sarcasm.

[anubisgrau]

The schick headshell is 350e and not that good, I've tried one. You can get exactly the same effects by buying a graphite headshell from eBay. There is no evidence on his website that his design is any better than what's available at a considerably cheaper price, hence the sarcasm.

on behalf ebay links are allowed, can you point me to these?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Gordon, I'm sure with your experience you can do an eBay search, my time is short.

[anubisgrau]

Thanks, I only found these at $325 which is 305 euros today.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HEADSHELL-GRAPHITE-FOR-MC-CARTRIDGE-THE-BEST-HEADSHELL-MADE-IN-ITALY-/261629858965?hash=item3cea5ad495:g:ahQAAOSwFV9XyDX r

[Wakefield Turntables]

Try looking on ebay.co.uk and Isokinetic products, they sell a graphite headshell at £179. Even so, 305E is still cheaper than 350E.

[Wakefield Turntables]

OK, this should help detail more about this MM.

http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=23461.0

[montesquieu]

OK, this should help detail more about this MM.

http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=23461.0

Embarrased now ... I'm quite regularly over there and I didn't think to check! Thanks for the link. Explains everything including the Thomas Schick connection.

I guess if you count in the headshell at retail he's not realy charging much for the mods to this.

I had the same graphite headshell as the Isokinetic one (sold by another vendor) it didn't really do anything for me with the Miyajimas but I guess might suit other types of catridges.

On the 35C - US or Mexican - I don't know. How do you tell? Its brand new production, UK sourced.

[Marco]

Hi Tom,


On the 35C - US or Mexican - I don't know. How do you tell? Its brand new production, UK sourced.

Btw, I concur with your earlier description of the SC35C. You can pretty much guarantee that any cartridge used back then by the BBC, for broadcasting purposes, is worth having and will realise its full potential in a sympathetically matched high-end system, where the right tonearm has been employed to ensure correct response from the cartridge.

If you look on the top of the cartridge body (the bit just above the output pins), if yours was made in the USA, it will say so there in very small writing. If that area is blank, it'll be Mexican, which with yours being current production, will almost certainly be.

The original USA models (made in Evanston), with NOS styli (that bit is crucial to realising their full potential, and they have 'SHURE', written in white capitals, not black) sound markedly different: bigger, bolder and more muscular in the bass, with a more mellifluous sounding midrange and sweeter top-end.

If you think the one you've got sounds 'chunky' and full of joie de vivre, then expect another 15% more of the same from the original USA-made version, with NOS stylus! Thread about it here on AoS (unfortunately I've lost the original pics): http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?12745-Original-US-model-Shure-SC35C

Marco.

[Marco]

Here's a pic of what an original NOS Shure stylus looks like (purloined from VE):

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/922/UiSOmJ.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmUiSOmJj)

Discussion on Vinyl Engine, here: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=41529&start=165

I thoroughly concur with the views expressed there by 'vinyl.junkee' (the subsequent comments from others are also interesting, and relevant):


I ordered a standard Jico SS35C stylus to compare with my NOS Evanston made stylii. I use my old Evanston made SC35C cartridges in EMT 938 turntables for radio work and needed a source of decent replacement stylii, the Mexico made ones I've tried are, I guess, suitable for DJ mixing and scratching etc. but not suitable for my requirements; playing jazz and light music LP tracks in a professional environment with the best possible sound quality. Sibilance is the main problem with the Mexico ones and I was not impressed with the sound quality either, I am very pleased with the standard Jico stylus, I know where to get my replacements from now. Incidentally I have tried all the Stanton range, Ortofon and Grado cartridges in my EMT 929 arms but the SC35C sounds and works best for me. I did manage to shoehorn a Denon 103 into an EMT headshell and used that in one of my turntables for a while to see how it compared with the Shure. Sound quality was comparable but it didn't ride warps well...


Marco.

[Wakefield Turntables]

It just goes to show how good these products really are. I bet you could probably get more from the cart with a little subtle tweaking and have a world class cart for the cost of a decent meal for two. The Shure m55e being a good example.

[ludovico]

I can comment about the Tonar Diabolik E as I bought one to try on my Technics MK2. First thing, don't worry about the high VTF and set it as it is recommended.

Then, the sound is fantastic and very enjoyable on heavy rock music, for example Shellac albums like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_et94mhU9s

The drums sound real and the bass is incredible with the Tonar cart.