What are your Super Tweeter findings?

[Wakefield Turntables]

OK. I bought a cheap £50 pair from Japan. I wasn't expecting much but so far this is what I think I'm hearing :-

1. Slightly more shimmer to brush work on some of my Jazz records.
2. Piano's seem to have a little more solidity.
3. Bass seems a little deeper and extended.
4. A little more realis.

Now is this in my head or do you guys get similar results???

[brian2957]

Nope , it's not in your head Andy . I'm hearing the same improvements . TAKET supertweeters by any chance ? :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

. TAKET supertweeters by any chance ? :)

YEP!

[brian2957]

Me too , and they're staying in my system :D

[walpurgis]

I've experimented a lot with supertweeters over the years. The effects vary, but are very apparent, but more by their absence when the supertweeters are disconnected. If employed correctly that is. Many folk use a filter that comes in too low and the output is too prominent, intruding into the audible output from the main tweeter.

I tried Decca DK30 ribbon horns, Celestion HF2000, KEF T27, Isophon DKT 11/C 110/8 horns, Small JBL horns (can't recall model) and even Goodmans DT3 tweeters (which work rather well). The HF2000 and DK30 were the best though, by quite a margin. Both unintrusive due to their smooth and well extended response. The results from the HF2000 in particular were superb.

I got best results just rolling tweeters in with 0.22uF or 0.1 uF capacitors. That sounds too small a value, but it works.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Geoff, what do you mean by a "filter", can you expand on this? I'm a little new to experimenting with these so don't fully understand the whole terminology yet.

[brian2957]

The TAKET supertweeters can be plugged straight into an amp or in my case straight from my speaker terminals . Nothing else required .

[walpurgis]

Geoff, what do you mean by a "filter", can you expand on this? I'm a little new to experimenting with these so don't fully understand the whole terminology yet.

As Brian indicates, many supertweeters include a built in filter to roll the unit in above a particular point. Unless there are selectable frequency points, this can be a bit arbitrary and not necessarily suited to all setups.

I prefer to employ a capacitor filter of my own choice. I find a shallow roll in curve seems best (6db/oct), except with HF1300 equipped speakers, where I use a 12db or 18db roll in. Calculations and tables can help, but in the end I always do an amount of trial and probably error. It pays to experiment with the phase too.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've got mine plugged straight into the speaker terminals. I'm using some old Duelund 16AWG shortly to be replaced with my favourite Van Damme blue.

[Barry]

As far as I can see, the TAKET super tweeters are ultrasonic, in the sense their response is 20 - 150kHz. Their impedance is high at 4kOhm, so no filter is necessary and they can be directly wired in parallel with the main speakers.

http://www.taket.jp/about6/about6.html

[Wakefield Turntables]

These things seems to generate a little more "snap" on the snare drums. Whole new experience here. Good so far. I'll have to post a pic of my "hotch potch" setup so you can all have a laugh.

[brian2957]

I'll be interested to see where you have yours positioned Andy .

Have you soldered the wires on to yours yet ? If not be very careful when you do .

[Wakefield Turntables]

Yep wires soldered. They are placed about 2" above the main driver, a bloody great big 15" MG jobby in a 300+ litre speaker cabinet.

[brian2957]

Yes , that's what I did initially . I have them mounted on little boxes ( bought from The Works ) and sat on top of my speakers for the moment .

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/P1010862_zps2xq88tlw.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/P1010862_zps2xq88tlw.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/P1010865_zpsl8vhbaey.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/P1010865_zpsl8vhbaey.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/P1010868_zpsjaovfoxv.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/P1010868_zpsjaovfoxv.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/P1010869_zps2gwbho0l.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/P1010869_zps2gwbho0l.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/P1010871_zpsyj98zy20.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/P1010871_zpsyj98zy20.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/P1010874_zps9lzejav0.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/P1010874_zps9lzejav0.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/P1010875_zpshqduzdch.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/P1010875_zpshqduzdch.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/brian2957/P1010880_zpsfup2tlgc.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/brian2957/media/P1010880_zpsfup2tlgc.jpg.html)

I've decided on the cable I'm using now so will make a more permanent arrangement when I have the time :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

The Tannoys now appear to have an extended soundstage wider than usual.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Thats a very nice post which I'm sure will help everybody that's planning on going down this route. :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

You'll have a laugh when you see the size of the super tweeter compared the speaker cabs.... :rofl:

[walpurgis]

As far as I can see, the TAKET super tweeters are ultrasonic, in the sense their response is 20 - 150kHz. Their impedance is high at 4kOhm, so no filter is necessary and they can be directly wired in parallel with the main speakers.

http://www.taket.jp/about6/about6.html

Ah. That's rather different. I've only used moving coil and regular ribbon units. That would seem to be a Piezo device.

[YNWaN]

The 'filter' referred to is the crossover, but in this case a very simple one consisting of a capacitor in series with the tweeters +. If you don't use anything at all the supertweeter will be producing bags of output in the same range as your standard tweeters.

[brian2957]

Thanks Mark , any recommendations on what to try with these then chaps .

[brian2957]

Thats a very nice post which I'm sure will help everybody that's planning on going down this route. :)

I took the pictures because I was planning to start a thread on the TAKETs Andy . I just haven't been able to find the time recently .

[Wakefield Turntables]

Here's mine sitting on top of my Tannoy's with my external XO made by Mr. RFC. These super tweeters shouldn't really work and now that I have a good idea of how they work I can understand why some people are sceptical. They do seems to do "something" to the soundstage. I suppose it's very much user dependent upon if that "something" adds or take away from the musical enjoyment.


19829

[YNWaN]

I've just noticed Barry's earlier comments and looking at the specs Taket do claim they come in at 20k. However, the manufacturers specs are very sparse and I think it extremely unlikely they just suddenly start making sound at 20K (that would be almost impossible). I would experiment with a bunch of budget film caps. A posh one can be used once you have found a good value.

[Wakefield Turntables]

The 'filter' referred to is the crossover, but in this case a very simple one consisting of a capacitor in series with the tweeters +. If you don't use anything at all the supertweeter will be producing bags of output in the same range as your standard tweeters.

Thats my understanding of how they work and probably explains why I "think" I can hear what I'm hearing. I've spoken to a few people who claim that these supertweeters kick in a lot earlier than 20K.

[Jimbo]

To be honest Andy my findings were the same as you stated in your original post. I have not spent too much time with them connected as I have not had my system up and running much over the last few weeks. I will et back to this post when I have evaluated them further.

[walpurgis]

I would experiment with a bunch of budget film caps. A posh one can be used once you have found a good value.

Bear in mind the 40k ohm impedance. Any thoughts on usual cap values for tweeters are out of the window. I suspect these tweeters will be resistive rather than inductive. That may be why they 'come in' above 20kHz, becoming more resistive as frequency drops.

[YNWaN]

Yeah, fair comment.

[Barry]

I've just noticed Barry's earlier comments and looking at the specs Taket do claim they come in at 20k. However, the manufacturers specs are very sparse and I think it extremely unlikely they just suddenly start making sound at 20K (that would be almost impossible). I would experiment with a bunch of budget film caps. A posh one can be used once you have found a good value.

Agreed - it is unfortunate that TAKET do not quote the -3dB points for the frequency response.

[Barry]

Bear in mind the 40k ohm impedance. Any thoughts on usual cap values for tweeters are out of the window. I suspect these tweeters will be resistive rather than inductive. That may be why they 'come in' above 20kHz, becoming more resistive as frequency drops.

Again the impedance of these devices is somewhat ambigious. TAKET quote: "infinity - 4kOhm (DC -100kHz)". So it is anyone's guess as to what it is at ~20kHz.

However, being a piezoelectric device the impedance will be high and resistive.

[YNWaN]

It was actually the lack of technical info that put me off the Takets when I was looking at super-tweeters.

[Wakefield Turntables]

More buggering around with the Taket super tweeters. I replaced the Dunelund 16AWG with Van Damme 2mm blue studio cable. I now have 6mm from the amp to the XO and the 2mm from the supertweeter into the XO. Difference not massive but pleasing. Tried removing the supertweeters and noticed less detail to drums and brush work on cymbals alongside loosing some of the 3D holographic nature of John Coltrane's Sax. Plugged them in and it all returned. So the super tweeters look like a keeper. Soundstage very transparent on the old Tannoys 15" MG, more seperation than you can shake a stick at. Plenty of tranparency. All in all a very worthwhile upgrade for the MG's.

[CageyH]

Here was the first attempt at positioning with my Electric Beach FH3s.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3945/33878304575_e88a4e2c6d_z_d.jpg

I was not too keen on this, so I moved them to the rear of the speaker and positioned them firing upwards where they seemed to open up the sound presentation quite nicely:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3938/33064568283_3cfc925728_z_d.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2899/33836908656_7c386ea67a_z_d.jpg

Before you ask, the bracket I use is one of these:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2924/33493263280_ac78d43ee9_z_d.jpg

You may recognise the brackets, if not this will give you an idea of what they are - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Furniture-Shelf-Cabinet-Plastic-90-Degree-Corner-Braces-Angle-Brackets-8pcs/50197514
The super tweeter is stuck to the bracket using the double sided tape it came with, and the bracket is stuck to the speaker with double sided tape.

[anthonyTD]

Yep, similar to my own findings with the Townshend ones I have been using for a few years now.
OK. I bought a cheap £50 pair from Japan. I wasn't expecting much but so far this is what I think I'm hearing :-

1. Slightly more shimmer to brush work on some of my Jazz records.
2. Piano's seem to have a little more solidity.
3. Bass seems a little deeper and extended.
4. A little more realis.

Now is this in my head or do you guys get similar results???

[Wakefield Turntables]

Here was the first attempt at positioning with my Electric Beach FH3s.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3945/33878304575_e88a4e2c6d_z_d.jpg

I was not too keen on this, so I moved them to the rear of the speaker and positioned them firing upwards where they seemed to open up the sound presentation quite nicely:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3938/33064568283_3cfc925728_z_d.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2899/33836908656_7c386ea67a_z_d.jpg

Before you ask, the bracket I use is one of these:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2924/33493263280_ac78d43ee9_z_d.jpg

You may recognise the brackets, if not this will give you an idea of what they are - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Furniture-Shelf-Cabinet-Plastic-90-Degree-Corner-Braces-Angle-Brackets-8pcs/50197514
The super tweeter is stuck to the bracket using the double sided tape it came with, and the bracket is stuck to the speaker with double sided tape.


Great post Kevin, can I be cheeky and ask if you could write up a few notes with regards your findings? Super Tweeters are a new concep to me and I love hearing what other people find in their systems.


Yep, similar to my own findings with the Townshend ones I have been using for a few years now.

Ahhh, can I ask how much the Townshend's cost?

[CageyH]

I already have - in the "Supertweeters" thread - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46702-Supertweeters