End of upgraditis

[Bigman80]

As you know, i have been mulling over a new rig. I wanted a valve involved and i wanted my next amplifier to be my last big spend for some considerable time.

I auditioned a fair few amplifiers. I drove the Guy in Super-fi bat-shit crazy lol

I wanted to see what was new and what was on offer. I tried Denon, marantz, Arcam and Rotel amps up to a price of £1200.

So being completely thorough i also tested a DIY/Kit Class A valve amp, a dual mono and a set of hybrid valve Monoblocks.

The only thing i couldn't get my hands on was a Class A SS amp such as a Sugden etc.

So the results.

Well the stuff in Super-fi except the Arcam Class G didn't impress me. Even with £2000 speakers on. We used a Project TT carbon something or other lol

The Arcam i felt was actually good but i didn't think it was better than my existing Sony.

Class A valve and Dual mono amps were very very nice. BUT I wanted to hear the Monoblocks again. They have a bit of magic. A bit of that something special.

I realised that throughout my mind bending journey of trawling the internet for options (MingDa valve amp etc) that the answer was staring me in the face the whole time. There was a set of Monoblocks that i had heard multiple times and been amazed at every time.

Enter - Firebottle Monoblocks

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170322/66ee3107ecec74e034837447e208f754.jpg

I invited Alan over to test his new FB-OTP phono stage with one eye on hearing the Monos again.

Well four hours of listening to every combination we had and i arrived at the conclusion that there simply isn't a better sound at the price.

£1000 for the Monoblocks !!!. Well i just had to have them. I promptly told Alan that he couldn't take them home. So he didn't !!!!!

They are now in my listening room sounding so good it's unbelievable.

I have borrowed a passive preamp off Alan whilst mine is being made.

The TT is running through the FB-OTP and i can honestly say it's a sensational sound.

So total price £1200

I can also say with some confidence that for the price, it's a steal.



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[walpurgis]

Looking good Oliver. Glad you found something that fits the bill.

Although I'm just wondering how long your "End of Upgraditis" will last? :D

[Bigman80]

Lol well Geoff, it'll be a while i think as I'm facing a huge pay cut at work so looks like the gravy 🚆 is over. Luckily i have managed to get everything up to such a good standard before the cuts start to hit.

Anything new like the preamp is being done on the cheap.

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[Bigman80]

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[walpurgis]

Speakers are looking the business mate! :D


Shame about the pay cut. Everybody's feeling the pinch as employers pull earnings back. It's happening all round.

[Bigman80]

I know mate. It's a pisser but what will be will be.

I'm going to make some wood speaker stands in a few weeks which will look that bollocks i think.

Good times.

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[Wakefield Turntables]

The problem with Valve gear is that it can always be upgraded. You might start tube rolling or wondering if new caps might be more beneficial. Trust me, I think upgradeiits, "may" strike back. :lol:

[Firebottle]

Speakers are looking the business mate! :D

They sound sensational as well. With the lesser quality amps they struck me as a bit shouty when I first heard them so I turned the mid control down.

Driven from the monos they give a really balanced sound, they are really good quality units, helped by a fantastic front end as well.
If I was in the market for speakers I'd be looking for these.

[Stryder5]

So pleased for you Oliver:).

I'm sure Alan will come up with some new stuff to tempt you.....lol

[CageyH]

So if Oliver has taken your Monoblocks, what are you using now Alan?

[Bigman80]

So if Oliver has taken your Monoblocks, what are you using now Alan?
Alan still has Monoblocks of his own.

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[CageyH]

The pictures looked like the "prototypes"?

Anyway, I am glad you listened to sense. They are what you wanted, and now you will get many hours of enjoyment from them. That has to be worth the sacrifice.

[Firebottle]

Oliver's were the first separate build, rather than the prototypes.
I have converted the prototype(s) into a dual mono in one box for my use.

:D

[CageyH]

Ah, I see.

I still prefer the box used in those, although the exposed valve would lead to trouble in my house.
My daughter is very quick on her feet and you can't keep an eye on her 100% of the time.

The main thing is that you have another satisfied customer.

[Bigman80]

The pictures looked like the "prototypes"?

Anyway, I am glad you listened to sense. They are what you wanted, and now you will get many hours of enjoyment from them. That has to be worth the sacrifice.
Yes it's definitely worth it. Spent a couple of hours with uninterrupted listening time this morning. The sound is so accurate, dynamic and delivered very smoothly. I'm in love hahaha

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[Bigman80]

Ah, I see.

I still prefer the box used in those, although the exposed valve would lead to trouble in my house.
My daughter is very quick on her feet and you can't keep an eye on her 100% of the time.

The main thing is that you have another satisfied customer.
I do like the look and as they are out of reach from my kids i was happy to take them.

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[Macca]

Your signature needs some radical updating...

Thread title is a hostage to fortune...

Otherwise, congrats and enjoy!

[Bigman80]

Oliver's were the first separate build, rather than the prototypes.
I have converted the prototype(s) into a dual mono in one box for my use.

:D
Sound as good as they should too.

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[CageyH]

You have to be happy with that system now.
That is a radical change in a very short space of time, so it is definitely time to sit back and relax!

[Bigman80]

You have to be happy with that system now.
That is a radical change in a very short space of time, so it is definitely time to sit back and relax!
Haha, i know. I've gone from a NAD 312 with Celestion DL6 speakers to FB-MBs and pioneers in just over a year. Crazy.

I'll be enjoying from now on.

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[Bigman80]

So, I've had this new rig for a couple of days now and so far my mind is tired from thinking about it constantly.

Words to describe how i feel are easier to come by than words for a description of what im hearing.

I find myself missing the rig, which is a first. I've twice picked up the phone to call in sick at work just so i can stay home and listen to it. Of course, i haven't, because that would be stupid ! but it just shows how completely engulfing it is.

My kids love it. My wife actually came to sit and listen to it with me! Voluntarily too, i didn't even ask her to!!!. My mom had tears in her eyes listening to "tears in Heaven- unplugged" and i basically sit there with goose bumps every time i play a LP.

Everything is just so audibly stunning.

I decided today that a good test would be to plug my laptop in and just see how it sounds with a cheap Toshiba bought On-board DAC. Well......

Fuck about! how good are those mono blocks!!!!! speechless. I am convinced that there is another level to these that can only be unlocked by gear in the tens-of-thousands-of-pounds range. I wasn't overly impressed with the Pioneer speakers at first. Now i am. Dynamic and fast sound. punchy and firm. Airy and delicate when needed. Attack and extended decay. Huge sound stage and such scale ! The Mono's are bringing the best out of them BUT i had one moment today where i nearly shit myself with shock. Back to Vinyl i went......

I like to play the guitar along with the unplugged LP's i listen to so as i was playing along i hit this single string note at exactly the same time as Eric Clapton and........it was faultlessness. Tonally equal to a "live" acoustic guitar. This is no ordinary guitar either. Its a Taylor Dreadnought, worth more than my car and loved more too.

Perfection of tone, sustain, decay and waveform. I thought "have i just hit the peak and its all down hill form here ? well no actually, it isn't. You see i played the same song and did it again and again and again and every time it was exactly the same. Purity.

I know i'm waffling a bit but i just wanted to try and convey how good these three items are. FB-MB's & FB-OTP

This set-up is dreamland.

I am gonna ask alan if we can do a side by side comp with the VIVANT. Not because i want one but because i want to see how close this FB-OTP is.

[Jimbo]

The Vivant will torment you if plug it into your system. Valve phono stages that good are killer components.

Be warned!:)

[Bigman80]

The Vivant will torment you if plug it into your system. Valve phono stages that good are killer components.

Be warned!:)
Haha, i wouldn't let Alan plug it in last time he was round for that exact reason. Maybe I'll wait hahaha

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[Martyn Miles]

As you know, i have been mulling over a new rig. I wanted a valve involved and i wanted my next amplifier to be my last big spend for some considerable time.

I auditioned a fair few amplifiers. I drove the Guy in Super-fi bat-shit crazy lol

I wanted to see what was new and what was on offer. I tried Denon, marantz, Arcam and Rotel amps up to a price of £1200.

So being completely thorough i also tested a DIY/Kit Class A valve amp, a dual mono and a set of hybrid valve Monoblocks.

The only thing i couldn't get my hands on was a Class A SS amp such as a Sugden etc.

So the results.

Well the stuff in Super-fi except the Arcam Class G didn't impress me. Even with £2000 speakers on. We used a Project TT carbon something or other lol

The Arcam i felt was actually good but i didn't think it was better than my existing Sony.

Class A valve and Dual mono amps were very very nice. BUT I wanted to hear the Monoblocks again. They have a bit of magic. A bit of that something special.

I realised that throughout my mind bending journey of trawling the internet for options (MingDa valve amp etc) that the answer was staring me in the face the whole time. There was a set of Monoblocks that i had heard multiple times and been amazed at every time.

Enter - Firebottle Monoblocks

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170322/66ee3107ecec74e034837447e208f754.jpg

I invited Alan over to test his new FB-OTP phono stage with one eye on hearing the Monos again.

Well four hours of listening to every combination we had and i arrived at the conclusion that there simply isn't a better sound at the price.

£1000 for the Monoblocks !!!. Well i just had to have them. I promptly told Alan that he couldn't take them home. So he didn't !!!!!

They are now in my listening room sounding so good it's unbelievable.

I have borrowed a passive preamp off Alan whilst mine is being made.

The TT is running through the FB-OTP and i can honestly say it's a sensational sound.

So total price £1200

I can also say with some confidence that for the price, it's a steal.



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Upgraditis gone mad !
I have been happy with my Quad 34/303 for years.
Trying to find audio Nirvana is a road to nowhere...
You'll never be happy !

[Bigman80]

Upgraditis gone mad !
I have been happy with my Quad 34/303 for years.
Trying to find audio Nirvana is a road to nowhere...
You'll never be happy !
Ah Martyn, I'm at my peace now. . The system that is capable of producing that sound known to audiophiles as "Nirvana"
Is unachievable. There are too many variables. All i wanted was a rig that captivated me and christened my ears with purity. I'll buy a few bits in time probably due to curiosity but knowing at the heart of the rig I've got the right bits is my Nirvana.

Have a listen to the Monos and see if your still happy. I was happy untill i heard them in my own home.

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[mikeyb]

The Vivant will torment you if plug it into your system. Valve phono stages that good are killer components.

Be warned!:)

Like #001 here.....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/d1396d3d77c194c4ddfacdb097b50215.jpg

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[emoji12][emoji4]

[Bigman80]

Like #001 here.....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170323/d1396d3d77c194c4ddfacdb097b50215.jpg

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[emoji12][emoji4]
Ah!! It's glorious. I've heard one and it's spectacular

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[Bigman80]

I have just stumbled on this old post and reading through it has made me chuckle......So naive and foolish to think i was finished. I hadn't event really cut my teeth when i had this lot and certainly wasn't ready to declare the "end of upgraditis"

The Light,

I have spent a lot of time, effort and money since 03/2017 listening, building, learning and finally purchasing bits that i felt would improve the system. The upgraditis really took hold at MCRU when i attended the bake off. It really opened my eyes to what could be achieved with the right components. The phonostages there bettered everything i had heard previously, The *** blew my socks off and had it not been for the LDA, there would probably be one in my system. I knew the OTP phonostage was not gonna do it for me after this event because the LDA Jfet i heard was stunning, so i Knew i needed valves...in came the Jolida JD9 MK2

Detail,

That came with a visit to Phonomac last year. His system was Monitor Audio speakers, SP10 MK2, PMAT - 1010, Hashimoto HM-3, Sansui AU-D11 amp and a very lovely Ortofon Vienna. The detail he achieved was mid blowingly ruthless and i was hooked. As much as i liked his detail, the overall sound wasn't for me BUT the SP10 MK2, Tenuto platter mat and PMAT-1010 definitely was.

The revelation,

The Jolida was performing faultlessly and i was having a bit of fun swapping the Caps and Valves. I was invited to Jimbo's abode for a listen to his Croft gear and THIS is when i heard the balance between detail, timbre and imaging i wanted in my house. His 2m Black was, to me, a little coarse BUT wow, the detail!!!! Id already heard the cart i wanted, The Vienna, and i was convinced i needed to get this move done. I searched for a Croft MM RIAA R but to no avail. I listened to other phonostages but they just didn't have that timbrel quality. After some research i found the Wizard Phonostage PCB. A chat with Alan and it was on the way.

What happened next,

Well, here's the crux of the matter. I tried countless items, SUT's, Headamps, Phonostages, Cartridges, Amplifiers, Speakers, Tonearms, Turntables, Cables, you name it, i had one here. It was only when the Wizard Phonostage was built by me and modded by Alan that things started to fall in to place.

I now had the Phonostage i was happy with but the Cartridge i wanted to buy ended up not being available. I bought a Kontrapunkt b instead and put it on my SP10 MK2 and PMAT-1010. I bought a Slagle AVC from Ali Tait and paired it with my FB-Monoblocks. I made my own cables and have now assembled a sound that i am listening to with pride and pure enjoyment. There is however, one more thing to do.......The SUT. I have bought a Rothwell MCX and it should be here tomorrow. I am genuinely hoping its a synergistic match to the cart because i am fed up of looking for the right bits lol

The only components i have left which started this Journey are the Pioneer CS-77A speakers and the Firebottle Monoblocks. This tells you everything you need to know about my thoughts on those two bits. Outstanding and highly recommended.

Moral of the Story? -

Get out there and find your sound. Buy used and don't be afraid to try something you've not considered before. Ignore reputations as the "legendary status" of most bits really didn't impress me and the stuff that has a "Wouldn't buy off him!!" reputation was excellent, so don't believe what you read, only what you hear. Try as much stuff as possible in your home as your room has the most influence on your sound.

SO, i'll end this thread now, as i really have finished (might get the Hashimoto's if the MCX doesn't work out) and will be focusing of listening and building the LP collection.

I'd just like to thank,

Firebottle, Jimbo, Phonomac, Walpurgis, Montiesque, Ali Tait, Marco, Rothwell plus others who have helped me get to this point. I appreciate your loaning of equipment and readily available advice and ......... selling me loads of bits and pieces :D

[walpurgis]

I'm sure you are welcome from each of us Oliver :).

But does the journey really end there? :eek:

[struth]

It never completely ends Think of it as a rainbow

[walpurgis]

It never completely ends Think of it as a rainbow

True. You'll be needing that pot of gold! :D

[Bigman80]

Well, the only thing i may consider now is some sort of digital streaming thing but i'm really not too fussed about it. Analogue for me is at a level that i can't afford to improve any further so who knows, maybe in the next black friday i'll pick something interesting but i feel very content and grateful to hear the sound my system now makes

[walpurgis]

Ah. But something with Pass Labs written on it may start nibbling mercilessly at your subconscious and taunt you, along with wooden boxes containing mystical, magical and legendary dual concentric thingies. :eyebrows:

[Bigman80]

Ah. But something with Pass Labs written on it may start nibbling mercilessly at your subconscious and taunt you, along with wooden boxes containing mystical, magical and legendary dual concentric thingies. :eyebrows:

Hahahaha, No Geoff. Certainly, i'd love to try some PassLabs stuff but the Tannoys are a no go. Just no where to but a big pair, which i'd have to go for.

[Firebottle]

I'm sure you are welcome from each of us Oliver :).

But does the journey really end there? :eek:

Yes very welcome Oliver. Journey end? Yes I think so.

Oliver and I have had a lot of conversations about ultimate fidelity, by that I mean achieving a standard that can be regarded as world class but without concentrating on individual traits such as depth of bass for instance. Everything matters as anyone who has been or is still on this road will know.

However the one word I think is crucial is 'clarity'. Superb mechanical integrity from the TT allowing the cartridge to do it's job, plus vanishingly low distortion from the electronics is essential.

Some mega expensive designs just don't work in this respect IMO.

[Bigman80]

Yes very welcome Oliver. Journey end? Yes I think so.

Oliver and I have had a lot of conversations about ultimate fidelity, by that I mean achieving a standard that can be regarded as world class but without concentrating on individual traits such as depth of bass for instance. Everything matters as anyone who has been or is still on this road will know.

However the one word I think is crucial is 'clarity'. Superb mechanical integrity from the TT allowing the cartridge to do it's job, plus vanishingly low distortion from the electronics is essential.

Some mega expensive designs just don't work in this respect IMO.Yes Alan, clarity and transparency have been the focus. Sure, something out there will do something better and on it goes but this has been assembled to my personal taste and it's absolutely doing what I want it to. Could it be better? Sure, but at what cost per incremental improvement, and where would the new compromise be, because as we know, there is always a compromise.

One day, there may be a LDA JFET phonostage and a set of big Tannoys in the rig but as you can see, that's £3k worth of investment. Something I'm not willing or able to do at this time. So, as for the Journeys end? Yes, it is......... For now anyway.

[Jimbo]

Mustn't forget clarity and low distortion are not everything, musicality has to be left intact. So many high end pieces of equipment and digital equipment in particular seem to forget this aspect and they may measure well and have outstanding clarity but are not musically engaging to listen too.

This is a particularly difficult aspect to get right in a system in my experience.

[Firebottle]

Don't know why you keep going on about the LDA JFET phonostage.
I have cured the one big weakness of using a JFET with my Vivant stage.

You need to borrow it :D

[Firebottle]

This is a particularly difficult aspect to get right in a system in my experience.

Agreed. Measuring well and the level of clarity I'm talking about are rather different.

As well as low distortion 'clarity' includes phase accuracy. Circuit topology and component choice (particularly type) all affect this.
I look at some designs and think 'why have they fitted that, I can think of a far better choice'.

[WESTLOWER]

I have cured the one big weakness of using a JFET with my Vivant stage.

and if I can ask, what is that weakness?

[Firebottle]

Adam it is the non linearity of the FET, as with all active devices.

[Bigman80]

Don't know why you keep going on about the LDA JFET phonostage.
I have cured the one big weakness of using a JFET with my Vivant stage.

You need to borrow it :DLol, I'll borrow it. The LDA JFET was the one phonostage on the day that first and foremost hit me with the thought of "YES!" Then a thought of "this is how it should be done" let's be fair, it's the first time a bit of kit (& the ***) introduced me to downward dynamic range.

To be fair, I haven't heard one since but there was something intrinsically right about how it delivered. I loved it.

I know the Vivant is better now than it was then and I'd like to see how it does in the system (with the right EQ) against the Wizard.



And yes, I will say the Vivants MC input is the cleanest it's sounded in all the time I've heard it. The mod on the FET is clever and very effective.

[smangus]

Glad to hear your well satisfied with your kit at the moment Oliver :) it's obviously taken a lot of research to get there.

I can't help thinking that the title of this thread is the Audiophile equivalent of the oldest lie spoken when hung over ..

"I'm never going to drink again!" lol :ner::D

[Bigman80]

Glad to hear your well satisfied with your kit at the moment Oliver :) it's obviously taken a lot of research to get there.

I can't help thinking that the title of this thread is the Audiophile equivalent of the oldest lie spoken when hung over ..

"I'm never going to drink again!" lol :ner::DHahaha, you might be right, Andy.

[Bigman80]

It's here. Just letting it get to room temperature before I start passing judgment like Roman leader. Thumbs up or down???????????https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180124/c3811a1a1eb43841849be880cecd74cd.jpg

[Jimbo]

:)

[Bigman80]

Got the system warmed up and had a listen for an hour..............

At first I was a bit concerned that something was missing around the mid - bottom end. I also had this urge to move my chair further back to try and bring the soundstage into focus. Everything felt too big, too open and I couldn't get my bearings on what I was listening to. Almost like the SUT was somehow deconstructing the music into some sort of jumbled chaos. I decided to try a few more tracks and played a few I know very well and again, I just had this nagging feeling that something wasn't right.

I took the Rothwell out and put the Denon HA-500 back in. And then it got very interesting. The Denon all of a sudden sounded a little.... artificial, slightly mechanical and enhanced. That thing I was "missing" was back and I didn't want it back because it wasn't natural

Oh, what's happening here then. The soundstage had shrunk and all of a sudden that deconstructed sound, was infact space. The Rothwell went back in an yes, I now realise the issue.....me. I just wasn't prepared or expecting the massive soundstage the Rothwell provided. There is fluidity and total transparency. It's beautiful. These are only first impressions but I'll follow with more soon.

[walpurgis]

That's exactly how I found the HA-500 compared to my SUT. It didn't suit my ears, that's for sure.

[Jimbo]

Head amps do tend to put you a few seat forward in the mix and as I have found can sound a touch mechanical whereas the SUT probably sounds more natural.

As SUTs tend to put you a few seats back it is probably why you are perceiving the soundstage as you are? They do tend to sound more fluid and organic/natural in my book.

Will be interesting when i bring my head amps and SUT over. You can't have enough of either to try with any given MC cartridge until you find the magic combination.

[Bigman80]

The HA-500 put me a few seat back, the Rothwell felt too close initially. Almost like sitting to close to the TV but I'm getting used to it and found that I prefer it.

The HA-500 Is Excellent but as you say Geoff, it's what suits. My system is as passive as possible so when the HA went back in it was noticeably enhanced.

[Bigman80]

Will be interesting when i bring my head amps and SUT over. You can't have enough of either to try with any given MC cartridge until you find the magic combination.

Looking forward to it Jim. I think the Rothwell is very good. I am looking forward to putting it up against the Hashimoto HM-3 & HM-7 too.

[Jimbo]

Looking forward to it Jim. I think the Rothwell is very good. I am looking forward to putting it up against the Hashimoto HM-3 & HM-7 too.

The Hashimotos should be good. The K&K Audio is very good and has been evaluated against a wide range of SUTs old and new. We will see?:)

[Bigman80]

The Hashimotos should be good. The K&K Audio is very good and has been evaluated against a wide range of SUTs old and new. We will see?:)Is yours the premium?

[Jimbo]

Is yours the premium?

No it's the standard.

[Bigman80]

That's cool. About the same money spent then albeit mine is used.