The Caiman SEG and high resolution USB playback like AIFF and DSD

[StanleyB]

Some people have been having problems in locating the expanded USB instructions for the Caiman. The link is at www.beresford.me/downloads/CAIMAN%20WASAPI%20Mode%20REV6.pdf
The AIFF driver to play back 352.8KHZ etc PCM files is in the driver section of my website.

JRiver will play AIFF and DSD64 through the Caiman once you follow the setup.
I am not a Foobar person, so I haven't yet figured out the settings for DSD etc.
Mediamonkey can play AIFF, but please note that it takes a bit of time for the audio data to travel between PC and DAC due to the far larger file size versus the USB2.0 transfer speed. So you might get a bit of music break up for the first 10 seconds of a 258.2KHZ file. I found out that if you put MM in PAUSE mode for a few seconds, that then gives MM some valuable time to load up, decode the file, and send the data to the Caiman.
In order for MM to be able to "see" 358.2KHZ PCM files you need to follow the download instructions for the driver on my website.
Unfortunately I do have a DSD compatible file recognizer for MM, but it doesn't work properly yet with the settings that I have tried. Work in progress.

Loads of demo files on the net to check out AIFF and DSD.

[Theadmans]

Hi Stan - I don't have my PC connected to my SEG so won't be using any of the PC Media players you mention.

However, I do have a Fiio X3 2nd Gen DAP which is capable of playing DSD files.

In fact I have a few Beach Boys albums in DSD which until now I have only listened to on the Fiio.

The Fiio actually also has a Coax digital output. If I plugged this output into the SEG's Coax digital input would this work for my DSD stuff ?

[StanleyB]

I haven't tried DSD via the coax or toslink inputs so I could not answer that question. I only have DSD and AIFF on my hard disk to play via USB.

[Theadmans]

OK Stan fair enough.

I decided to give it a try with the Fiio X3 2nd Gen with Coax out to the SEG.

The file I used is an ISO of the Beach Boys "Holland" from the Analogue Productions SACD.

The file is described as DSD 64 (2.8Mhz / 1 Bit)

The Fiio has 2 settings for Coax Out :-

1) D2P mode - with this I get Music !

2) DoP mode - with this I get Crackles.

I know very little about DSD. Can anyone with more knowledge tell me what all this means. When I play in D2P mode am I getting the full fat DSD sound through the SEG ?

It sounds fine but I guess it could be downsampling in some way.

[Theadmans]

Ok I think I found some more information about this on the Fiio boards :-

"Q: The difference between DoP mode and D2P mode of X3II/X5II/X7's SPDIF Out.

A: There are two modes of using the SPDIF Out: D2P (DSD to PCM) and DoP (DSD over PCM).
Under D2P mode, you play the PCM signal and will get the original PCM signal out. When playing the DSD signal, the system will convert the DSD signal to PCM signal and output. Under DoP mode, PCM signal can be directly outputted and so does DSD signal. However, to have the signal output, the coaxial device connecting with the DAP needs to support DSD. It can only support up to DSD64 signal when SPDIF Out, higher specs format like DSD 128 is not supported."

...so it would seem that what I getting on the SEG is D2P (DSD to PCM) - the original PCM signal out. So does this mean I am not getting the full quality of the files ?

It implies that when I switch to DoP mode and get crackles the coaxial input on the SEG does not support DSD.

Have I got this right ? As I say I know very little about DSD so would appreciate some clarification from some clever person!

[StanleyB]

...so it would seem that what I getting on the SEG is D2P (DSD to PCM) - the original PCM signal out. So does this mean I am not getting the full quality of the files ?
How did you arrive at that conclusion :scratch:?

[Theadmans]

How did you arrive at that conclusion :scratch:?

..well at this stage I was unsure - so I was asking for opinions - hence the question mark.

After further consideration - and the crackles in DoP mode - I am assuming the only way to get true DSD on the SEG is via USB.

Consequently - because connecting my PC to my SEG via USB is not practical (they are in different rooms) - I have gone a different route. I now have connected the Line Out of the Fiio X3 to my amp direct (bypassing the SEG) at least this way I can play DSD when I need to. The DAC on the Fiio X3 2nd Gen is pretty good by all accounts - so will do for the odd occasion I want to play DSD. My Raspberry Pi / Wolfson Audio Card via SEG DAC will continue to serve for all non-DSD files.

[sondale]

Stan,

I use either a Pi-based front-end or a Hackintosh/Mac Mini front-end; any ideas as to how I can get high-resolution output via USB - apart from converting to Windows?

Alan

[StanleyB]

I have only messed about with Windows so far.

[Stratmangler]

Stan,

I use either a Pi-based front-end or a Hackintosh/Mac Mini front-end; any ideas as to how I can get high-resolution output via USB - apart from converting to Windows?

Alan

There's a Mac version of JRiver.

[roob]

Jriver, Audirvana+, Amarra to name but three Mac playback options

[sondale]

Chris,

The problem I think lies in the MAC drivers - but I may download a trial of JRiver and see what happens.

[sondale]

Quick test - JRiver recognises the Caiman SEG and limits the output to 96,000.

A+ and Amarra show the same limit - so the limit would appear to be set by the MAC USB output / drivers.

[Stratmangler]

Chris,

The problem I think lies in the MAC drivers - but I may download a trial of JRiver and see what happens.

Now you mention it, with one of the audio interfaces I have it does say in the manual that it doesn't need any device drivers for Mac, but it will be limited to 24/96.
With Windows you need a device driver, but it will play ball with 24/192 stuff.

[sondale]

Just connected my (apologies for this) iFi iDSD running from Audirvana+ 3 - runs at DSD256 with no problems.

I think we wait for Stan to look at this - in his own time of course.

[mikmas]

Quick test - JRiver recognises the Caiman SEG and limits the output to 96,000.

A+ and Amarra show the same limit - so the limit would appear to be set by the MAC USB output / drivers.

Presume you've changed the output rate on the Mac?

Go to Applications>Utilities> Audio MIDI Setup
Select the SEG from the Audio Devices menu and choose the rate from the drop-down 'format' menu

[StanleyB]

Quick test - JRiver recognises the Caiman SEG and limits the output to 96,000.

A+ and Amarra show the same limit - so the limit would appear to be set by the MAC USB output / drivers.
You have to use the JRiver setting as described in http://www.beresford.me/downloads/CAIMAN%20WASAPI%20Mode%20REV6.pdf
If you use any other setting, JRiver will default to the maximum sample rate that Windows or the MAC OS is capable of by default.

[sondale]

Yes I did - max for SEG is 96000, max for iFi 768000.


Presume you've changed the output rate on the Mac?

Go to Applications>Utilities> Audio MIDI Setup
Select the SEG from the Audio Devices menu and choose the rate from the drop-down 'format' menu

[sondale]

Stan,

I had done that but it did not seem to work; just tried it again (I ignored the fact that it does not mention WASAPI) and it is currently playing some DSD128 files.

MIDI is only showing 96000 as max - is the signal playing at DSD128 (11289 bit-rate)?

Now playing some DSD256 files!

Thank you.



You have to use the JRiver setting as described in http://www.beresford.me/downloads/CAIMAN%20WASAPI%20Mode%20REV6.pdf
If you use any other setting, JRiver will default to the maximum sample rate that Windows or the MAC OS is capable of by default.

[StanleyB]

It is playing at the DSD rate, otherwise you would be hearing nothing, or a constant high pitch sound.