Thermostatic Radiator Valves (TVR)

[Rare Bird]

(TRV Sorry)..Since i've had these fitted to the radiators i can't get the place warm properly in winter, they are brand new radiators & valves, the rooms have been correctly calculated & TVR set accordingly but no.They are a wate of time & money, we have a brand new combi boiler in to save money but these bloody things just defeat the object..

Anyone feel the same?

[spendorman]

What make TRV's? The manufacturer may give some help.

I bought some years ago, but never bothered to fit them. Of course the TRV only sees the temperature near the radiator. That may be making them cut off before the room is properly warm.

[Dave Hewitt]

Same here,it seems they have to be fully open in our installation or else its bloody freezing.
Regards Dave.

[Marco]

Every house should have a working coal/log fire and you wouldn't need any of that bollocks! :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

[Mike]

Every house should have a working coal/log fire

Not all of us are actually ALLOWED to have such things!

[Marco]

Is there a law against it in your area, Mikey?

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

You go chopping logs in the snow with just yer underkecks on then Marco owd spadge?

[Dave Cawley]

I have an identical system designed by me and installed by a local plumber. The TVR's work perfectly as they did in my previous installation. I suggest that you get whoever did the work to advise you, I'm not sure there are many here who could!

Dave

[Mike]

Is there a law against it in your area, Mikey?

No idea TBH! Don't have an open fire in this house though, but we have one of those chiminea things in the garden. Made plenty of smoke with that and never had any hassle, so maybe not!

Last house had an open fire but was in one of those 'smokeless zones'. Tried smokeless fuel a couple of times but it was crap!... So burnt coal/logs/any-old-shite and never had any bother about that either!

Strange....

[Spectral Morn]

We use an open fire for all our heating. Back boiler/pump pushes the water a wee bit further than it manages on its own, but in all bar one of the rooms the radiators heat up without the pump on. An open fire is nice but dirty and a pain in the ass. However still cheaper to run than gas, oil and electricity which is why we still use it. Smokeless fuel is actually better imhe than smoke generating fuel. That type of fuel does not burn so hot that it destroys your grate ash pan every year or so. Smokeless fuel we use is cosyflame.


Regards D S D L

[Covenant]

Take the top of the TRV off and see if it heats properly. The top unscrews without any loss of water.

[Rare Bird]

Lets see
- Soot in your room after long periods of time
- Soot build up in the chimney
- Chopping logs in the snow in your britches
- Expence of coal
- Freezing cold rooms that don't have a fire (hence you have to use some other form of heating)
- Freezing your bollox off first thing till fires burning
- Hot ashes
- Knackered anual fire grate (already pointed out)
- holes in your carpet
- plenty time on your hands

No thanks

[Spectral Morn]

Lets see
- Soot in your room after long periods of time
- Soot build up in the chimney
- Chopping logs in the snow in your britches
- Expence of coal
- Freezing cold rooms that don't have a fire (hence you have to use some other form of heating)
- Freezing your bollox off first thing till fires burning
- Hot ashes
- Knackered anual fire grate (already pointed out)
- holes in your carpet
- plenty time on your hands

No thanks


Not far wrong....but its cheaper still than other forms of heating...so far. The grate burning through is only an issue if you live in a smoke free zone...normal coal does not burn as hot, so replacing the grate is a less common event.

The other issues vary...the soot in the room is for us not an issue..maybe for others though.

Old house and it is cold especially at the minute...when will this very cold snap end ? ..please no when its spring comments errrrrrrrrrrrrrr.



Regards D S D L

[Covenant]

We went away with a group of friends one new year to a remote Derbyshire cottage with a log fire. The fire was blazing away in no time and we all congratulated each other on the idyllic setting. Within 10 minutes the big chunks of log had burnt through and I went outside to the shed which was stacked floor to ceiling with wood.
We had to work out a rota to keep the fire going. You just could not leave it for more than a few minutes. For no reason smoke would decide to billow into the room causing the kids to cough.
We were all glad to say goodbye to the log fire and get back to proper central heating.

[DSJR]

We inherited TVR based gas central heating and I added a wireless thermostat to the procedings. When we changed our boiler to a condensing type (Vaillant EcoPlus) the engineer turned all the rads so they were ony open on a 1/4 of a turn of the preset side of the rad, with the sitting room and kitchen ones (last on the longest circuits) opened a little more to balance them. Pump (a fancy ato-sensing thing) has to be on sensing-max as the water circuit on its own needs it..

We previously had upstairs always colder than downstairs, yet now and with the cold and snow usually unheared of on our little peninsula, the house has never been cosier and the boiler isn't going mad either, the extra convector heaters we usually had out upstairs un-needed this year...

The TRV's only work if we turn the main thermostat up too high. The average evening temp we set is 19.6C and this is lower than the TRV's are set on their pre-set temp which on ours approximates to over 20 degrees C.

It's essential to get the system flushed properly, limescale-inhibited and properly bled, as ours was. The power-flush we had was quite telling, although the work we'd had done previously meant a few partial drain-downs as it was... The old pump was working fine, but the iron filings all round the connectors was a site to behold - we now have a magna-clean installed to prevent this happening again, all done when the new boiler went in...

[Themis]

(TRV Sorry)..Since i've had these fitted to the radiators i can't get the place warm properly in winter, they are brand new radiators & valves, the rooms have been correctly calculated & TVR set accordingly but no.They are a wate of time & money, we have a brand new combi boiler in to save money but these bloody things just defeat the object..

Anyone feel the same?

I see this :

When dimensioning a heating system in a building it is necessary to perform a precise calculation of the total system. As part of this calculation it is very important to secure proper hydraulic balancing of the complete heating system. For this balancing, the presetting feature in the valve or a special hydraulic balancing valve are well suited solutions to obtain the most energy efficient solution that also provides the optimum comfort to the users.

[DSJR]

Andre, just check to see if the closest rads to the boiler are turned well up. if they seem to be, make a note of how open they are and then close down on the fixed valve and open by no more than 1/4 of a turn. if these close ones are too open, they will short circuit the water flow away from the further ones and the last in the circuit will hardly get any water flow at all. Our engineer used a "laser" thermometer on top and bottom of each of the rads to get them all equal. Even the last in the circuit loop doesn't need to be fully open if it's working right. The pump and pressure relief valve must be carefully set as well, more often by feel rather than by maths ;)

[Themis]

This is a wonderful forum indeed ! I even learn how to regulate TVRs ! :)

[Marco]

Hahaha... Ok, let’s go through this list one by one:


- Soot in your room after long periods of time


We're not manky buggers and clean our house every day (or rather I do, as Del's at work) ;)


- Soot build up in the chimney


We get a chimney sweep to sweep the chimney once a year (who happens to be a mate of mine)!


- Chopping logs in the snow in your britches


Del's cousin delivers enough logs for us from his farm (for free) to last us all winter!


- Expence of coal


Expense of electricity and gas? Coal is still cheaper. We also get to use our fire as a 'bin', thus reducing the amount of rubbish we have to recycle.


- Freezing cold rooms that don't have a fire (hence you have to use some other form of heating)


The coal fire heats our (small) lounge only - the rest of the house is centrally heated when necessary.

We use a coal fire because we like the (healthy) heat it gives (we dislike the way central heating 'dries' the air and makes rooms stuffy) and how it looks, making a room really nice and cosy.

I'm writing this now on the laptop with the room lit only by the glow of the Christmas tree, candles and the coal fire, whilst sharing a bottle of wine with my lovely wife – nice! :)


- Freezing your bollox off first thing till fires burning


Nope - we set the central heating to come on before we get up so that the rooms are always nice and toasty until we light the fire!


- Hot ashes


Not a problem. You just don't clean the fire out until the ashes have cooled down properly.


- Knackered anual fire grate (already pointed out)


That's not quite my experience, but when it needs replaces it gets replaced - no big deal, daddy-o!


- holes in your carpet


We only have a big rug in the middle of the lounge (well away from the fire) and original antique tiles covering the rest of the floor…


- plenty time on your hands


That's not a problem when you work from home...

Next! :lol:

;)

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Andre, just check to see if the closest rads to the boiler are turned well up. if they seem to be, make a note of how open they are and then close down on the fixed valve and open by no more than 1/4 of a turn. if these close ones are too open, they will short circuit the water flow away from the further ones and the last in the circuit will hardly get any water flow at all. Our engineer used a "laser" thermometer on top and bottom of each of the rads to get them all equal. Even the last in the circuit loop doesn't need to be fully open if it's working right. The pump and pressure relief valve must be carefully set as well, more often by feel rather than by maths ;)

The combi boiler is in a closet with door on, the nearest radiator is up on number III, i do the closed valve thing thanks, regarding the Rads without the TRV's are both side to 1/4 open also??

[Primalsea]

I was under the understanding that its the actual manual valves that are used to balance the radiators & the TRV's are for a form of limited and IMO mostly ineffective control of individual radiators. They are semi useful for controlling the radiators in each room if you do not want them all on full. In our house the TRV in the kids room is turned down to about halfway as the kids go to bed while the heating is still on and they get too hot otherwise.

The problem is that most TRV's stick after a while and really need a through flushing to work properly again. You can unscrew the plastic head to reveal a pin that you can grab with pliers and manipulate up and down to free it. This is usually a short term solution though. Be careful though as if you pull the pin too hard it will come out along with the water! I know from experience:doh:.

The TRV range can usually be adjusted, if you remove the head you might see a dial inside with some numbers on. Turning this sets the maximum down travel of the TRV. if you have some idea of where you might want the setting to be setting this adjustment can offer a fix as if the TRV gets stuck it will never get stuck further that you have allowed it to go. Don't go too mad with this as some TRV's do have an adjustment stop and you could end up with a bit of a leak if you turn the wheel so much that it comes out along with all the bits it was retaining!

Its usually the crap in the system that causes them to get stuck and a through flushing and change of inhibitors can help prevent it.