Broken driver

[Bigman80]

Hi all,

Bought these :

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/a7057ef059a8550e07728cf375219bc0.jpg

Problem is, after doing 200miles to fetch them there is a problem with one of the drivers.

This one : https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/4928abcfe9d5ea3e87e2539592db4f8b.jpg

Why didn't I check them before I paid? I couldn't. They didn't have anything to test them with.

So I've connected the meter to see what's happening

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/6ebb7663723118ddd3bdd33b03ec8f18.jpg

Bass is fine

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/4bc734060e98cdb875552db4571b8eee.jpg

Horn (?) is fine

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/6b64173d95bf4c1c868d430ddd5b612b.jpg

This one's dead

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/7fac91a956d42eafd419003f373a211c.jpg

Any suggestions apart from change the driver ?

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[Audio Al]

Normally its a broken voice coil wire = replacement driver

[Bigman80]

Bollocks

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[nthall]

It's probably a burned voice coil. Are there any other components under that cover on the back of it?

[Bigman80]

It's probably a burned voice coil. Are there any other components under that cover on the back of it?
No mate. Just a very simple speaker.

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[nthall]

It's probably a goner.

[Bigman80]

Oh man, there two driver on eBay, quite expensive though !

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[JimC]

Try Wembley Loudspeakers.

http://wembleyloudspeaker.com/

No affiliation to the Company only as a satisfied customer in the past.

Jim

[Firebottle]

What are you like? Let me have a look at it Oliver, it may not be terminal.

[Bigman80]

What are you like? Let me have a look at it Oliver, it may not be terminal.
Lol, I know. It looks and sounds pretty dead.

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[walpurgis]

Alan is right. It's worth a look.

The sealed back cup looks removable. It could just be a dodgy soldered joint inside or a defective lead out wire from the coil.

[walpurgis]

Talking of broken drivers. Here are the tweeters from the same Pioneer speakers.

http://i65.tinypic.com/14a93ys.jpg

They are decidedly 'not well'. The foam surrounds have hardened and crumbled, so Oliver sent them to me to see if I could do anything with them.

First things first. Measure up and cut foam rings of the correct size.

http://i66.tinypic.com/20ix9w2.jpg

Rings bonded to cones and the outer edge taped to the chassis edge to keep them concentric whilst the adhesive dries.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2qnp5zc.jpg

Outer surround edges bonded to chassis flange .

http://i63.tinypic.com/2ewo5g1.jpg

The stiff card trim rings bonded back in place and the chassis flange cleaned up. Job done. They work fine and still measure as they did.

http://i68.tinypic.com/f6uz7.jpg

They can rest for a day to allow the adhesive to fully harden, then go back to Oliver.

[Ali Tait]

Nice job Geoff.

[Firebottle]

Top notch Geoff, pity I couldn't fix the mid that was open circuit.

There was a very small discolouration of one of the lead out wires, turned out to be a spot of corrosion that had eaten the wire away.
Try as I might I couldn't re-connect to the very short and thin stub of wire remaining.

[Stryder5]

What are you like? Let me have a look at it Oliver, it may not be terminal.


Any news on poor Oliver's speaker?

[Firebottle]

Posted at the same time Gary. Terminal on the open circuit one. Oliver has ordered some more.

[Bigman80]

Talking of broken drivers. Here are the tweeters from the same Pioneer speakers.

http://i65.tinypic.com/14a93ys.jpg

They are decidedly 'not well'. The foam surrounds have hardened and crumbled, so Oliver sent them to me to see if I could do anything with them.

First things first. Measure up and cut foam rings of the correct size.

http://i66.tinypic.com/20ix9w2.jpg

Rings bonded to cones and the outer edge taped to the chassis edge to keep them concentric whilst the adhesive dries.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2qnp5zc.jpg

Outer surround edges bonded to chassis flange .

http://i63.tinypic.com/2ewo5g1.jpg

The stiff card trim rings bonded back in place and the chassis flange cleaned up. Job done. They work fine and still measure as they did.

http://i68.tinypic.com/f6uz7.jpg

They can rest for a day to allow the adhesive to fully harden, then go back to Oliver.
Wow! They look great. Thanks Geoff.

I was concerned they had been beyond help but I needed have worried !

In other driver related news, alan spent some time trying to fix the mid driver but to no avail.a perished wire from the voice coil to the speaker just kept breaking away. A replacement has been ordered from the USA (£55) so should land at the end of the month. Just enough time to get the Caps etc checked I think and maybe give the Cabs a good clean up.

Its turning into a proper project lol

Thanks Geoff, you're the man.

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[walpurgis]

Its turning into a proper project lol

Looks that way. :)

Bet you wish you'd never started! :eek:

[walpurgis]

Try as I might I couldn't re-connect to the very short and thin stub of wire remaining.

Don't chuck it out though. I might have an idea for a fix.

[Beobloke]

To the OP - just a small point. Your pictures show you testing the drivers with your meter on the diode test setting - you'll get better results on the Ohms measurement range.

[walpurgis]

To the OP - just a small point. Your pictures show you testing the drivers with your meter on the diode test setting - you'll get better results on the Ohms measurement range.

He He. True. I didn't spot that. :)

[Bigman80]

To the OP - just a small point. Your pictures show you testing the drivers with your meter on the diode test setting - you'll get better results on the Ohms measurement range.
I have no idea what that means. I was just seeing if it was an open or closed circuit. Thats as far as my knowledge goes lol.

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[Bigman80]

Looks that way. :)

Bet you wish you'd never started! :eek:
Im enjoying it actually, gonna put some danish oil on the cabs after a bit of filling and sanding. Should look ok.

The old driver now has a hole in the dust cap where we tried to get to the wire so not sure its worth repairing Geoff

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[nthall]

Dust caps are easy to replace.

[Yomanze]

Im enjoying it actually, gonna put some danish oil on the cabs after a bit of filling and sanding. Should look ok.

The old driver now has a hole in the dust cap where we tried to get to the wire so not sure its worth repairing Geoff

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Drop of PVA will sort that.

[walpurgis]

Dust caps are easy to replace.

Not in diahorrea brown they're not! :lol:

[nthall]

Not in diahorrea brown they're not! [emoji38]
They look better in copper anyway. I'm one of the weirdos that leaves the grills on my speakers.

[Bigman80]

So, I decided to rub the cabs down and apply some danish oil.

Done one coat on one cab so far. There were a two joins that looked like they had been wet at some point and had split. Ive repaired these and added some wood gripfill. Slightly the wrong shade but as they are at the bottom they wont be seen.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170310/26b7994006ed4f953d18ff1214668bee.jpg

Sanded everything down by hand and managed to remove a few blemishes too.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170310/f4cae9d4eec96f3305f5277a68842708.jpg

Time to oil

Looks pretty good after one coat. Another two or three to go.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170310/1d9bcbce4c3ff5d87946c90b31433ca3.jpg

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[Bigman80]

Now to ebay for some replacement Pioneer badges. The others were peeling so I removed them to sand underneath.

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[nthall]

Looking good.

[Bigman80]

Looking good.
Thanks mate, a couple of layers of wax to bring out the finish and thats one done !

Looks like it will be worth it though.

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[Bigman80]

Well, ive spent all night and cant decide which finish I prefer. Wax, shellac or varnish. Ive tried two so ill leave the last,varnish, to dry and have a look tomorrow. Knackered now !

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[nthall]

They all usually work.

[alphaGT]

A wonderful job! And those tweeters look great! New ones are about $4, but still you did a professional job! Be sure to buy the midrange with the enclosed rear, like the original, or the backwave from the woofer will blow it out! Here in the states I shop at Parts-Express, replacement speakers all prices, sealed midranges like those are very affordable.


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[Bigman80]

A wonderful job! And those tweeters look great! New ones are about $4, but still you did a professional job! Be sure to buy the midrange with the enclosed rear, like the original, or the backwave from the woofer will blow it out! Here in the states I shop at Parts-Express, replacement speakers all prices, sealed midranges like those are very affordable.


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Here in the UK they are rare as rocking horse shit lol. It has the enclosure and I also have the one off the original. Should be good.

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[walpurgis]

If you're going to experiment with shellac and varnish (water based or spirit based), you'll need to remove any wax first. A rub down with meths should do the trick.

I generally use a water based satin varnish. Either clear or of an appropriate shade. Then once dry, I wax the finish. This gives a subtle and classy professional look.

The water based satin varnishes are very easy to get a good finish on, just using a lint free cloth pad, applying evenly, but sparingly.


Difficult to tell much from a photo I know, but this is the finish on one of my Tannoys using this method.

http://i67.tinypic.com/swx0de.jpg

[Bigman80]

If you're going to experiment with shellac and varnish (water based or spirit based), you'll need to remove any wax first. A rub down with meths should do the trick.

I generally use a water based satin varnish. Either clear or of an appropriate shade. Then once dry, I wax the finish. This gives a subtle and classy professional look.

The water based satin varnishes are very easy to get a good finish on, just using a lint free cloth pad, applying evenly, but sparingly.


Difficult to tell much from a photo I know, but this is the finish on one of my Tannoys using this method.

http://i67.tinypic.com/swx0de.jpg
I like that look geoff. I left one of the sides with just danish oil on and this morning, after about 10 hours of drying it looks very good. So I shall re sand all sides and go with the danish oil. That satin varnish looks very tempting though lol

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[Bigman80]

Both cabs sanded and one coat of Danish oil applied.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/6fa34d76ed456fb49a3fe5df8d0a52a1.jpg

Next coat to be done in the morning.

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[karma67]

not sure it applies to danish oil but linseed oiled rags can combust after you have used them.
looking good olly or should that be oily lol

[Bigman80]

not sure it applies to danish oil but linseed oiled rags can combust after you have used them.
looking good olly or should that be oily lol
Lmao, oily! Haha. Yes I read that too. Its laid out on a non combustible material just in case lol.

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[nthall]

How many coats are you planning on using? I really like the grain on the right one. Those are turning out great.

[Bigman80]

How many coats are you planning on using? I really like the grain on the right one. Those are turning out great.
Hi Nathan,

Im going to do three I think. Ill see how two looks first. Im very pleased

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[Bigman80]

The lighting is showing up the right one better. They are both pretty good if I do say so myself lol

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[nthall]

They're looking good. I have some ARs I was planning on sanding down today but I'm snowed in. Winter decided to make a comeback.

[alphaGT]

Here in the UK they are rare as rocking horse shit lol. It has the enclosure and I also have the one off the original. Should be good.

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I found some on the Parts Express website, $6 US, and it does say they have international shipping. But I couldn't figure out how much that would cost. So, I can understand not wanting to wait on international shipping, and would cost more than the speakers I'm sure. But if you've got it figured out, more power to you!


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[Bigman80]

I found some on the Parts Express website, $6 US, and it does say they have international shipping. But I couldn't figure out how much that would cost. So, I can understand not wanting to wait on international shipping, and would cost more than the speakers I'm sure. But if you've got it figured out, more power to you!


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Cheers ! Have you got a link ?

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[alphaGT]

http://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gm-65-4-sealed-back-5-1-4-midrange-4-ohm--280-100


There were several others, but some were quite expensive. Everything one needs to build speakers is on this site.


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[walpurgis]

They'd be totally unsuitable for use in the Pioneer speakers though.

[Macca]

Bloody cheap though. $6.37!

[Bigman80]

Oh, I thought you'd found the actual midrange driver from the Pioneer. Oo no, that wouldn't do.

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[Bigman80]

They're looking good. I have some ARs I was planning on sanding down today but I'm snowed in. Winter decided to make a comeback.
Wow,.snowed in !!! We dont get snow very often in middle england. And when we do its pathetic.

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[nthall]

Some years we get a ton others we barely get any. It's not really that bad out. I just don't like driving in it because someone runs into me every time.

I don't have a garage here, but I have a shop about a mile away.

[Bigman80]

Some years we get a ton others we barely get any. It's not really that bad out. I just don't like driving in it because someone runs into me every time.

I don't have a garage here, but I have a shop about a mile away.
Ah, thats a pisser. Snowed in and nothing to do other than listen to music !!!

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[nthall]

It's nice to have a lazy day every now and then.

[nthall]

Bloody cheap though. $6.37!
Some of their cheap speakers are actually really good. I built a line array from some they had on closeout once. It would have been too expensive otherwise. 64 high end drivers would have cost a fortune to experiment with.

[walpurgis]

Those mid units won't be great. The rear enclosure is too small. Its volume will resonate high up enough for that to intrude into the mid band output, also the back of the enclosure is close to the back of the cone, that will encourage reflections to go back out through the cone. They're 4 ohm anyway (whatever that may mean, depending on the impedance curve). And, I hate drivers with fixed grilles, unless they are there for acoustic purposes (like those on the LS3/5a tweeter).

[nthall]

You have to build the correct box for them. I bet they sell some direct replacements for those speakers. They do for most. They have factory replacements for a lot of them.

[alphaGT]

They'd be totally unsuitable for use in the Pioneer speakers though.

Browse that site, they have many to choose from, and you may find something closer.

Or yes as nthall said, build a wooden box and glue it over the hole from the inside, and use a regular speaker.


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[Macca]

You could use a plastic Tupperware type box or bowl. Doesn't have to be wood.

[walpurgis]

I believe a pair of original midrange drivers are on their way. So alternatives are unlikely to be required.

Having built a good few sets of speakers, I've found integrating a midrange driver into a design can be very tricky. More difficult than matching a bass driver and tweeter in a two way system.

[alphaGT]

I believe a pair of original midrange drivers are on their way. So alternatives are unlikely to be required.

Having built a good few sets of speakers, I've found integrating a midrange driver into a design can be very tricky. More difficult than matching a bass driver and tweeter in a two way system.

That I will agree, especially if you don't want to replace the crossover. Glad you found some original equipment drivers. A good bit of luck!


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[Bigman80]

Yes, a new original driver is on the way from the USA. sure I said that earlier in the thread 🤔

Anyway, its pulled from the same model of speaker and has the same model number etc so should be a plug and play replacement

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[Macca]

I saw that just thought we were having a general discussion about closed-back mids.

Cabs are looking fantastic btw, always great to see quality old gear like this getting a new lease of life. Can't wait to see them with all the drivers back in and ready to go.

[Bigman80]

I saw that just thought we were having a general discussion about closed-back mids.

Cabs are looking fantastic btw, always great to see quality old gear like this getting a new lease of life. Can't wait to see them with all the drivers back in and ready to go.
Ah, I see. Misunderstood !! Carry on lol.

Thanks BTW. Cant wait to get them up and running. Gonna see if Alan will swap the caps if they are no good.

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[Macca]

Aye might as well make sure they are top notch everywhere. Are there level controls for the mid and top? If so you could consider bypassing them.

[karma67]

Aye might as well make sure they are top notch everywhere. Are there level controls for the mid and top? If so you could consider bypassing them.

whys that,you can tailor them to the room better with level controls.

[walpurgis]

Speaker level control pots can sometimes compromise the sound. At least old pots should be cleaned if possible. Bypassing them can have a misleading effect though, with the user thinking the speaker sounds better, when in actual fact it just sounds brighter because the insertion loss has been removed. However, not needing level controls is best.

[Bigman80]

All taken under consideration. I shall investigate. Im sure alan will check everything thoroughly

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[Macca]

whys that,you can tailor them to the room better with level controls.

Or the partnering system, tiz true. On the other hand you are getting a load of cack out of the way of the signal path.

[Bigman80]

Postman delivered the driver this morning and I have to say these sound amazing. I haven't checked the capacitors or done anything with the crossovers but they sound superb.

Here's the pics

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170318/13e24c0c777e01c9886caaa1a7f4dd55.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170318/ac90390d91f04c40f3eccddcc0f00df7.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170318/48d2e64735986b2469c5400cdf6989e5.jpg

Really pleased with them now. Ill get Alan to check the crossovers when he gets chance but to be honest im in no rush

Ill review the sound when I've had a good listen.

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[struth]

Didnt take long.. nice looking speaker. Probably easy to drive too

[walpurgis]

Nice one! They look excellent. :thumbsup:

It took a little while, but I bet it was worth it.

Might be an idea to get them off the deck a bit. A couple of plastic bottle crates would work to start off with. Or a pair of Lack tables as Grant is using in his thread.

[Bigman80]

Nice one! They look excellent. [emoji106]

It took a little while, but I bet it was worth it.

Might be an idea to get them off the deck a bit. A couple of plastic bottle crates would work to start off with. Or a pair of Lack tables as Grant is using in his thread.
Thanks Geoff, yes its been a couple of weeks in the making but they were worth the wait ! So so good and the scale is better than anything ive personally owned. Neutral but emotive.

Couldn't have done it without you though so thanks you.

Yes, getting them off the floor is the next step. I have a few ideas.

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[Bigman80]

Didnt take long.. nice looking speaker. Probably easy to drive too
A couple of weeks mate. Well worth it. 96db (I think) sensitivity so a doddle.

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[Firebottle]

Looking good Oliver, do you want to borrow my sh*tty stands again :eyebrows: ?

Maybe I'd better bring the FB27 round on Monday along with the other stuff :D You never know it might be a match made in heaven.

:cool:

[Bigman80]

Haha yes please alan. Feel free to bring everything and we can see how it all sounds.

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[Bigman80]

Normally its a broken voice coil wire = replacement driver
You were correct Al, I forgot to give you Kudos. Lol

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[karma67]

they look lovely mate,the wood and the drivers compliment each other very well.

[Bigman80]

they look lovely mate,the wood and the drivers compliment each other very well.
Thanks mate. I am very pleased with them.

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[hermit]

Great work Oliver.

[Bigman80]

Great work Oliver.
Thank you Paul.

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[alphaGT]

Excellent work! They look better than new! All that work makes them sound even sweeter!


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[Bigman80]

Excellent work! They look better than new! All that work makes them sound even sweeter!


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Thanks Russell,

Indeed they sound very sweet indeed.


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[Bigman80]

Been very very impressed with these beauties so today I cleaned the grills a bit and put them on

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170329/01a0e309446067d910bf2d8661c45d52.jpg

They sounded better with them on !!!! Remarkable speakers these. Very clean sound, have great imaging, spacious sound but for a sealed unit they have excellent bass. The flat wound strings on McCartneys bass are stunningly apparent. These speakers are great value for money IMO.



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[struth]

Probably voiced with them on Oliver. Nice pair of wardrobes those.. you should try and hang on to them

[Bigman80]

Probably voiced with them on Oliver. Nice pair of wardrobes those.. you should try and hang on to them
I hadn't thought about that Grant. Really hit a sweet spot so the covers are staying on.

In no rush to move these on mate. I seem to have found "synergy". A combo of British amplification, valves and a Jap front end with Jap speakers. Very happy man here.

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[Firebottle]

This ^^

What was I saying, DON'T CHANGE THEM. You like what you hear so stick with it.

I thought they were superb.

[Bigman80]

This ^^

What was I saying, DON'T CHANGE THEM. You like what you hear so stick with it.

I thought they were superb.
😂😂 relax matey. Can't see these leaving the house. They've displaced the Mission 710s which i rated extremely highly.

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